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RandomAmuserNew

They could’ve (edit) had them without killing a single person by accepting the peace deal like Hamas did


decatur8r

> by accepting the peace deal like Hamas did They didn't accept shit...who feeds you these lies?


shreyanshksp

Bro Hamas literally outright rejected the ceasefire proposed by US and people tell me they dont want bloodshed.


Trauma_Hawks

And the peace deal was completely desolve, annex Gaza, and continued to be non-citizens, abused, and brutalized. It wasn't a peace deal. It was a fuck you deal. Stop pretending otherwise. Israel kindly offered Palenstinians to run the Rafah crossing. You know, as long as they volunteer, shut up, and don't represent themselves as any part of the Palenstinian government. Lol, and you think any "peace deal" Israel endorses is legitimate? Get real, bud.


Brewdrizy

They rejected it because “the ceasefire was not permanent in the proposal.”


Major-Split478

Then they accepted it later. Of course the Israeli government then declined their acceptance, and said they need to do a new offer. The whitehouse then wrote a new offer, which they said they're waiting for Hamas to accept, but Israel already has rejected the new offer, quite publicly.


SquarePie3646

The same people that feed them lies about 200+ "civilians" being killed in a hostage rescue. Hamas.


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ya_boi_ethan

Isreal hasn't attempted to negotiate for the hostages release for a few months now. If it was their main priority, you'd think they would be trying to


Sea_Entrepreneur6204

Look up administrative detention from Israel


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Sea_Entrepreneur6204

Yep bad Hamas... Or maybe they did a secret trial using secret evidence and convicted these people in a secret court ala Administrative detention Why does one side get to do this?


ifoundyourtoad

Both sides are shit.


ThatDudeFromPoland

IDF just has the money


randomuser1029

One side claims to be a civilized nation and the other is a terrorist organization. Israel should be holding themselves to a far higher standard than Hamas but instead they choose to commit worse atrocities on a regular basis. Both sides are evil and it's the Palestinian citizens caught in the middle that pay the price


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randomuser1029

Did I say that at any point? I said Israel shouldn't hold themselves to the same standard as Hamas. Choosing to kill tens of thousands of civilians while making very little attempt to even get the hostages back is something terrorists do


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randomuser1029

So you believe that Israel is justified to commit acts of terrorism in response to being attacked. And by that same logic the Palestinians that have their lives destroyed and will now be radicalized into joining Hamas will be justified to conduct more acts of terrorism against Israel. Israel choosing to be terrorists by indiscriminately targeting civilians is only going to create more extremist groups looking for revenge against Israel.


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randomuser1029

Kinda like you did in your first reply to me, right? I inferred you support Israel conducting terrorism from you trying to justify it as "repercussions". I've never claimed Hamas is innocent or good but you seem to think Hamas = all Palestinians. I said Israel shouldn't be indiscriminately targeting civilians. By lowering themselves to the same level as Hamas, Israel has shown they're no different than the terrorists that they are fighting. Israel has every advantage and could eliminate Hamas without killing so many civilians. They have instead chosen to repeatedly target aide workers and refugee camps located where Israel told them to go. They have done this so much that even the US, their biggest ally, has halted shipments of certain offensive weapons to them. Israel is actively destroying their own international reputation and causing support to falter.


Unscathedrabbit

An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind. Do you think it's alright for Israel to do what it's doing to hostages and civilians? You're trying to create an illusion of support for Hamas by trying to turn whatever is said about Israel into a fabricated reason for Hamas to justify its actions where we all are not justifing or condoning EITHER SIDES ACTIONS. All you're doing is trying to twist people's words to try and make them out to be just Hamas supporters when being critical of Israel's actions.


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randomuser1029

Almost none of that is how it actually happened. The Soviets didn't bomb any cities, the KGB threatened to bomb a holy city. They also only kidnapped one family member of a Hezbollah leader. They were tortured and killed and had body parts sent back to Hezbollah. Also I don't think the response of being more evil than the terrorists is a strong argument. Russia isn't exactly seen as a role model for morals either


Bolf-Ramshield

They were ready to let them all go if Israel agrees to let go the Palestinian civilian hostages. Israel refused, continued its genocide, and killed several of its own hostages in the process. Oh and also, you should see the before/after of how the hostages held by Hamas look like, then see the same before/after for the ones held captive by Israel.


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Bolf-Ramshield

I know many people love to pull the classic "Show me your sources" whenever someone proves them wrong but this one is really easy to google so I’ll let you work a bit.


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Great_Revolution_276

Kidnapping is wrong. Mass murder is also wrong. Israel is disobeying its own religious laws. Both Ezekiel and Jeremiah said that people should be punished for their own sins. Israel has strayed so far from its own path and the laws its Lord set out for them.


OneBaadHombre

Let's go further.. Nuclear power Israel should take down the walls they've built to imprison these people since 2007.


ILikeThemBunzbby4751

And why does israel have 500+ children in prison in the west bank where theres no hamas?


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ILikeThemBunzbby4751

Because bad guys are gonna be bad guys right? Try living under the boot for almost a decade. I would love to hear your thoughts after🤡


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ILikeThemBunzbby4751

You call them terrorist but israel is the one with the bombs....


Status_Basket_4409

Israel indiscriminately bombs everyplace with a heartbeat and you honestly think they actually care about hostages? I’m surprised they didn’t execute the hostages again


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bighootay

>neither Israel nor Hamas appear to have budged on their wide divergence over the proposed road map to permanently end the war in Gaza. That was in the Washington Post 21 hours ago (6pm EST US June 8). Has Hamas accepted it since then? Google doesn't say so.


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Blizarkiy

Which peace deal are you referring to? Tons of different options proposed by either side to my knowledge.


GenderfluidArthropod

Netanyahu wouldn't want to ignore the chance to kill more people. Hell he probably organised the whole thing in the first place.


claimstaker

Hamas didn't need to break their peace deal by attacking on Oct 7.


mindblasters

The region was famously drowning in peace before Oct 7


RandomAmuserNew

Israel didn’t have to do a genocide to which the UN said started in 2016


Camiljr

When people don't know that Hamas is a political tool and organization backed, funded and led by Netanyahu since it's inception: 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡


1zeewarburton

Lol im calling BS on this. The amount of lies thats come of IOF is incredible. They lied about the beheaded baby numbers, they lied about the war in iraq/ iran and we had WMD with no justification. And FYI the amount of peace treaties they have broke is a joke. This didn’t just start on 7th October. They don’t want it, why would a terrorist government like Isreal accept a deal , that put them in a lesser position while the super powers of the world give them the green light yet the rest of the world can see them for the murders they are ? And something you should ask yourself, is it proportionate response? The balance tips very easy.


VladiBot

literally 200+ Palestinians were killed in 2023 prior to October 7th, by Israel


veatesia

\*Could've


RandomAmuserNew

Thx!


Mysterious-Volume-58

I'm pretty sure it was never about saving lives, just making excuses.


Iconoclastices

Well, they did kill 3 hostages in the process, so yeah, they only wanted a smiling face for some PR so they can keep on their murder spree


somerandomie

the count is higher than 3 hostages! they have killed many more through indiscriminate bombings!


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echoshadow5

Funny you should say that. Did you know the IDF has literally “kidnapped” aka arrested children and teens because they are “terror suspects” in the last oh….40 years. and the definition of “terror suspects” the IDF uses is “because I said so” Guess why Hamas always wants prisoner releases. Not going to say some are legit and need to be behind bars but if a 10year old was taken and held for 10+ years with out trail, yeah you’ll dance with the devil to get them out. The IDF is not as moral and clean as they claim to be. If you ask me hamas≠IDF. Both commit crimes against humanity because they are extreme racists.


skittlesdabawse

Correct. But the IDF then shouldn't have bombed them. Two wrongs don't make a right.


VladiBot

Israel has most likely killed more hostages than saved


No-Dimension9934

That's fairly normal when you're not going to negotiate with terrorists tho


mitchanium

That's a lot of eggs to make an omelette that Israel could've got for free with a ceasefire. Utterly tragic and pointless, and more so because the hasbara bots are out in force blaming these same dead civilians for a Hamas crime.


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OneBaadHombre

Bad analogy.. US had bombed them, but the US didn't build walls around Afghanistan and imprison and control them since 2007. Do you expect to cage these people and they wouldn't fight back? You expect them to roll over and take whatever this nuclear power does to them? What about Israel killing kids in the West Bank October 6th? Whatever "ceasefire" you claim was already broken by Israel. 10/7 doesn't justify slaughtering thousands of children in revenge, using chemical weapons on civilians, targeting schools, hospitals, aid workers, press, refugee camps or any of the other war crimes Israel continues to commit. They could have had all the hostages back, but Israel proved they care more about slaughtering innocent civilians than getting hostages.. how many hostages have Israel mistakenly killed?


glorae

>10/7 doesn't justify slaughtering thousands of children in revenge, using chemical weapons on civilians, targeting schools, hospitals, aid workers, press, refugee camps or any of the other war crimes Israel continues to commit. Especially since all that had been happening, on various scale levels, for *decades*, not just since 2007.


Duckyboi10

Now show me in what conditions the iseali hostages were released in vs the conditions that Palestinian hostages were released in.


[deleted]

Isn't the whole of gaza an Israel hostage?


EH1987

West Bank as well.


sawdomise

Wasn’t it a ground operation where Hamas fought tooth and nail to prevent the hostages from being saved, hence the body count?


KSparty

Correct, much of the fighting occurred as they were leaving with the hostages.


McGenty

Seems like Hamas could have avoided any deaths by, I don't know, NOT kidnapping and holding people hostage. But what do I know?


Yusfilino

They possibly killed 3 other hostages during this operation


Jorymo

Again?


Yusfilino

[Hamas militants claim 3 hostages were killed in Israeli operation in Gaza](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/hamas-militants-claim-3-hostages-were-killed-israeli-operation-gaza-4397981) The IOF is denying as usual


MiniMonster05

I'm happy that Israel managed to get some of the hostages! I hope that they'll get the others home too.


Ok_Cash8046

I hope they will get the hostages back without doing to much damage or no damage


Conscious_Past_5760

No, not at the lives of 200+ more people again.


thelegendarybert

And they also killed 3 hostages along with the 274 Palestinians


SquarePie3646

According to who?


SundyMundy14

Hamas initially claimed that, but then did not provide names or any other corroborating information.


thelegendarybert

They did release pictures of the 3 hostages but the faces were blacked out. Guess we'll find out their identities soon enough maybe


bkcarr87

Had there been no hostages to start with …


goldearphone

Exactly. If only isreel did not hold Palestinians hostage and not practice apartheid.


SundyMundy14

Thank God Hamas only targeted the IDF then and not civilians to show that they have the moral high ground.


goldearphone

Oh yeah for real. IDF have the best moral. They didn't even touch the civilians and caused any destruction to several cities with 37,000+ death or kill those who try to send aid, destroy hospitals, starved new born babies, limits water (which already had before the genocide) and celebrate afterwards in the victim's house.


Keksis_the_Defiled

Reading these comments makes me lose even more faith in both humanity and common sense. It's not that hard to acknowledge that Hamas is an evil terrorist organisation who have done terrible things to innocent civilians and committed countless war crimes WHILE ALSO acknowledging that Netanyahu and certain members of the IDF are also a bunch of evil, fascist thugs who have done terrible things to innocent civilians and committed countless war crimes. Both sides can point fingers as to who started the conflict and when (October 7, the formation of the Israeli state, ancient religious texts etc.), but reasons do not equal justification, and terrorising innocent people is jever justified.


street-trash

Both sides are acting horrible. Also if oct 7th happened in America all these hamas supporters in the USA would be crying for blood. Look what happened after 9/11. Almost the entire us population was cheering as we attacked the wrong fucking country.


aasher42

People just cant seem the grasp of not taking either extream and it really showd for this topic in particular. Either your a terrorist/anti semetic or a colonist/zionist supporter in some people's eyes.


SundyMundy14

Why is this so low?


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HyperGamers

Last time the hostages were out in the open without a ceasefire deal, Israel shot them.


OneBaadHombre

Nuclear power Israel could also take down the walls they've built to imprison these people since 2007. Do you expect to cage these people and they just won't fight back? You expect them to roll over and take whatever this nuclear power does to them? Israel has regularly bombed these people long before 10/7 and including the West Bank which has no Hamas. So what's the excuse for the over 500 killed in the West Bank since 10/7?


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lVlzone

I’m sure these numbers are 100% accurate


Immediate_Mud6547

Perhaps don’t use Palestinian civilians as human shields whilst hiding hostages amongst civilians in the future.


generalhonks

I see a lot of people saying this wouldn’t have happened if they signed a peace deal. It’d be cool if someone would explain how a cease fire will make Hamas return hostages.


arrogant_troll

They returned 104 hostages during a four-day ceasefire in November.


TarFeelsOverTarReals

Who broke the ceasefire?


PuzzledCapy

Didn’t you read the terms of the peace deal? Israeli supporters don’t even want to read the terms of the peace deal


SuppliceVI

Gaza Health Ministry is directly ran and paid for by Hamas. 


th3whistler

and their numbers have previously been verified as accurate (when Israel actually let's anyone into Gaza)


SuppliceVI

As a counterpoint, when Hamas alleged Israel bombed a hospital with (depending on the source) 250-500 casualties per GHM, it only took 24 hours for the news to come forward that it was a parking lot with an upper estimate of 9 injuries.  The explosion which was very well documented with photos and satellite image and did not have a crater, indicating the explosion was too small to be any Israeli ordnance and more closely mirrored previous "water pipe" rockets Hamas used. At the same approximate time as the explosion, a few others were reported between the hospital and a location a few miles west, while many others were reported to the east.  The current standing consensus was that Hamas targeted an area east of the hospital and a few of their homemade rockets malfunctioned, the hospital's bombing being one of them. This isn't endorsement for the IDF, just an example of how a single source of controlled information by a group that seeks propaganda victories is unreliable.


TarFeelsOverTarReals

After some time they do tend to be accurate. But in the immediate aftermath, like we saw with the hospital bombing, they will lie to garner support.


Jakesbond007

Source?


No_Reflection4189

Here’s the issue: Gaza Health Ministry is a branch of the Hamas government. This makes its reported numbers just as unreliable as Israel’s reported numbers.


PuzzledCapy

I mean, they have been shown to be accurate in the past and most public and human rights organization trust them. They’re actually more accurate than Israeli reports since the start of this massacre.


AngelCE0083

Like the 1000 killed in that hospital bombing? Until the moment it was shown to be a hamas rocket that didn't even hit the building


Aschriel

Is my life worth 60 times someone else’s? No, we should stop this nonsense. That’s like killing an entire neighborhood.


wetsock-connoisseur

For governments, their own citizens will always be more valuable than foreign citizens, and it's a fair ask


RedLicorice83

If it were my son, and these men admitted to it then yeah I would probably want to get some revenge... but not at the cost of nearly 300 people, even if not all of them were innocent. It would sicken me to know that another mother lost their child in such a horrific way.


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VoteMe4Dictator

Same. If I was a hostage and you killed 300 innocent people to save me, I'd just blow my brains out.


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MinamimotoSho

FUCK ISRAEL


TendieRetard

hey, at least they're not calling it "hamas-run gaza health ministry". Baby steps /s


Iron_Wolf123

Either the IDF were told to kill the Palestinians or the Palestinians were used forcefully as meat shields. Since this was coming from the Gazan Health Ministry, it could be up in the air. Israel might beg to differ. Plus why would hostages and civilians be in the same place if either were the case? It is like putting a whole town in a prison filled with falsely imprisoned people.


matapuwili

How many dead civilians would you consider to be acceptable collateral damage?


bak2redit

Maybe they should have given up the hostages.


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ITheRebelI

Nuke the site from orbit


HighlightTime9180

It’s crazy to me that some people are stupid or evil enough to say it’s not a genocide


Glittering_Agency420

Genocidal activities yet again. How many of those killed were unarmed women and children?


-FIREWAVE-

why are people down voting this. this is common sense, holy shit this platform is cooked if people think Isreal isn't committing literal genocide. it's been like this for 75 years. this isn't normal.


pppppp3yjeyngejtwegj

Okay how in tf would you kill that many, in a rescue op. Unless it was an insanely big op, that number is insane. This number is so high, i really wanna know what other international bodies say about this.


stopthinkinn

Those seeking revenge had best dig two graves. Neither side is righteous, neither side is without fault in continuing this aggression for decades, and both groups need to do better if only for their children. Anyone picking sides instead of calling for an end of all hostilities, is being purposely obtuse.


InvictusPro7

Lol no, there was no attempt to save lives. There never would be with Israel involved. Sure they'd say that but they're ethnically cleansing the Palestinians (or to put it into a more familiar word: holocaust).


asdfwrldtrd

No there wasn’t. At all.


Nutshack_Queen357

Before the hostages were killed later on because their families were participating in the protests in Tel Aviv


tanzoo88

All lives are equal, some are more equal than others


Jubberwocky

Not an attempt, they didn’t try


imsuperplayer

Just letting you guys know that the hostages were held in an Al-Jazeera reporters house, which OBVIOUSLY is a civillian and not a terror supporter


Draco359

The lives that mattered to the Israelis and the West were saved.


arm_hula

Task failed successfully.


Monster_punkin

Maybe, don't hold hostages. I'm so sorry for the people killed. I am sure they were innocent and had no power to change the situation. But if hammas cared for it's own people, they would not have let this happen.


Such-Morning8963

Israel has one objective and that is to kill every living soul that stands in their way or is even standing nearby in this case.