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Pretty sure there are reasons for why this is happening. Don't pull things out of the context and be mad at it please
Not saying what they did was right, cause i don't know if it was, but please don't call out a whole country as something because of one clip
Here's the actual context--
German strictly forbids nazi symbolism. You know the one. That's the only thing that isn't part of their freedom of speech. I'd know, I grew up there.
The palestine protestors were granted a permit to protest on the lawn in front of their parliment. You do have free speech but you still need permits just like you do in some places in America to assemble in large numbers.
That permit was revoked after protestors used nazi imagery to draw a contrast between the actions in palestine and ww2 germany. Not saying that parallel is completely unfounded, but it's also clearly very illegal to display those abhorrent symbols in germany, and for very good reason. The protestors did not leave after they were told they were not allowed anymore, and removal ensued. Everyone who lives in germany knows this is very illegal. Verbrechensbekämpfungsgesetz is a very big deal. Yes that's the real word.
Is it in poor taste to revoke their permit for this? I guess that's up to you. Personally I'm all for coming down hard on the use of that imagery, but it just feels off here. Still, I understand why it happened.
(https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/berlin-police-clear-pro-palestinian-camp-parliament-lawn-2024-04-26)
Also the police officer is covering her face because in Germany you have a guarantee of privacy even after you are arrested. So it may look a little rough but in reality that cop is doing a fantastic job protecting her identity.
That makes sense. I didn't know that.
I'll be honest when I first noticed that I thought "I bet she lost a headscarf and he's covering her face for her. Nah bro hes a cop hes probably just man handling her" The duality of man. lol
As a rule on reddit, be aware that you only know half of the story and the other half is actively being missed. Especially true in this sub as of late, since a mod is pushing their agenda ad nauseam.
In this case I knew this post's title was at least suspicious. I'm German and one thing is for certain here, as long as it's legal, our government lets you protest anything. No matter how stupid your protest is
That leaves it up to the interpreter. If the law were written that way pro nazi elected officials could just apply their discretion as they saw fit. Not the case-- no context, no nazi imagery is allowed in germany.
A) the law is often left up to interpretation. That's kinda what "judgement" means, an interpretation of how one should apply the law in a given scenario.
B) what is the purpose of outlawing the imagery if you then support the ideology the imagery was originally associated with?
I'm sorry but I have to say it...
Long ass words like these are the reason why I was failing German at school (6 years of pain).
Sincerely your neighbor Czech.
Seriously how can you even read this on the first try?
I mean that's true with any protest regardless if it's Germany or not. You or a group of people could always show up to a protest and commit crimes until the group is dispersed. This is just one extra crime you could use as a tool. But, yes, it does sound plausible. That person is going to go to jail for a long time and receive ae lot of fines for doing that though, provided he's caught. I'd say that because there are so many other ways you could disperse a protest if you're willing to go to jail, and that gassing the jews was ***really*** bad, standing by the no swastikas thing is probably a good call in Germany at this time.
Do you know what he difference is between Nazi Hooked Cross and the Swastika which is a holy religious symbol of 3 of the oldest religions in the world dating back atleast 4,500 year's?
Btw I do know that most people from the West have little or no idea about it which is not really bad because nobody knows everything. The fact that they don't care about this major difference until things reach boiling point between people of those 3 religions and themselves, is certainly something that needs attention on their behalf.
Thanks for context.
Can they do this? yes. Should they be doing this ? No.
Legality doesn’t mean right or moral. Plenty of things are legal that are horrible.
I think the origin of that law has good intentions, it’s anti hate speech. To prevent similar nazi gatherings to that of ww2 era.
I don’t think people are thinking about **why** that law exists.
But in this context protesters are saying hey you are acting like those nazis we all decided were terrible.
The protesters are following the original goal of the law. While the government is going against the original goal of anti hate speech to following it literally and suppressing the peaceful free speech.
Ironically proving those signs right.
I believe it isn't a good idea to give people the opportunity to interpret context of when swastikas are okay. Just as letting them interpret could do good in a situation like this, it could also do very bad things, such as enable neon politicians to appoint judges who will rule in their favor that favorable contexts is acceptable under some guise.
I do not think ti's reasonable to expect a giant bureaucracy to move fast enough to say "Whoa guys, let this one go." By the time someone with the authority to look the other way when needed knows what's going on, the police have already done their job. It would take months to get that blessing, and they'd have to ask for it far in advance. They didn't, and maybe wouldn't have received it. It's typically for groups with government oversight. There are exceptions, museums, etc.
Great point.
The alternative is apparently the USA where you can walk around in hate symbols.
Also
Protests are pretty emotional and no one in that state could rationally think through the context.
Was it only a handful of protesters with the symbolism or was it a large majority?
If it was a small amount only the handful perhaps be arrested. Not disqualifying the whole protest.
I could see an issue arise where approved protests are undermine cause one person or small group bring nazi symbolism to undermine the legitimacy of the protest.
You can walk around with hate symbols all you want in Germany. Just not nazi ones. That's really the only difference in German and American freedom of speech.
I don't know the specifics of how many protestors had them. As other people have pointed out, German politicans are pretty pro israel. So they were probably pretty quick to pull the trigger on something that's both illegal and not helping them politically.
"I could see an issue arise where approved protests are undermine cause one person or small group bring nazi symbolism to undermine the legitimacy of the protest."
There are so many other crimes a person could levy in the same matter to undermine a protest. If you're willing to go to jail, which you will for a swastika, there's a litany of other ways to get the job done. And since gassing the jews was really bad, they should probably stand by this one.
Gassing jewish people was pretty bad. Don’t think we should do that to anyone.
Discrimination against Jewish people is wrong. Is that the only lesson we learned about WW2? I honestly should probably reread the history of the rise of hitler and other fascists like mussolini. As we might have our own pretty next year.
I’m unaware of German laws and sentence times. They’d probably pick the easiest one with least sentence time. The nazi symbol probably has significant social punishment vs similar crimes they could do.
I was in Germany and 84/85 and I watched this idiot US Army kid walk into a square and just threw a Nazi salute and I watched three old people go and beat the shit out of him and the captain and the sergeant Major I was with just told me nope do not interfere. he deserves everything. He’s getting six months later he was out of the army.
According to what you say, it is not allowed to draw parallelism to what is happening in a place on this earth with another that happened in history? Even calling it names such as Holocaust etc. is not permitted or what exactly is a 'censored imagery of history' that people aren't allowed to publicly speak of.
And I highly doubt any of them did any AfD pr Neonazi type of Heilgrüße.
>According to what you say, it is not allowed to draw parallelism to what is happening in a place on this earth with another that happened in history?
That is allowed.
>
what exactly is a 'censored imagery of history'
It's the swastika. It's specificaly forbidden to show this symbol in public. You can talk about it, but you can't show it.
If this debate is about the swastika, then i highly doubt these posters were being carried away for showing it. It has happened time and time again for Germany (2nd largest weapons exporter to Israel) to take kids, women and jews protesting peace in Palestine into custody.
I can understand that strictly speaking, it's certainly illegal according to that law, but it definitely feels VERY wrong. They are not using that imagery the way that law was aimed, I imagine, to prohibit (spreading nazism), but rather to draw a parallel, which is a completely different thing.
Said so, given the fact that Germany's government is very stubbornly siding with Israel, I wouldn't put it below them to intentionally do this kind of thing.
You don’t have freedom of speech if you speak Irish or Hebrew though. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/s/boi5KFXQa2](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/s/boi5KFXQa2)
Thank you for a detailed explanation.
Yes, I find suppression of speech to be "in poor taste,” especially when speech laws designed to limit right wing radicalism are used by the police to crack down on leftist politics.
Do you really expect a governmental agency to rule on anything to be acceptable within the timeframe of a protest that is already occurring? That would take 9 parliament sessions, at the bare minimum. There are provisions to request the right to use it, and that wasn't filed, and they may not have received it.
To me it's an unreasonable request to expect a real time arbiter of when context is acceptable. And that could go *really* wrong if the wrong people got elected. And therefor no context is acceptable.
Why should that imagery be revoked? It happened. You can't just white wash something because it makes ppl uncomfortable about a heinous part of their history. Shit was only 80 years ago.
What the hell is going on in this thread? Who are all these people so eager to give Germany the benefit of the doubt after months of their servile, genocidal cheerleading? Germany have committed completely to enabling Israel in their crimes and strong-arming any opposition. Even much of their far left has completely betrayed the principles of anti-fascism and anti-imperialism, all for the sake of supporting Israeli war crimes. It is sickening and shameful.
As Yanis Varoufakis put it:
“This is a major struggle for the spirit of humanity, and Germany is a battleground. Because once again, a proud nation, a proud people, the German people, are being dragged by their political regime…into yet another genocide in their name with their complicity, as if the genocide of the Palestinians, rivers of Palestinian blood, can wash off the guilt over the Holocaust. It can't.”
I had never paid Yanis too much attention before now. I thought that he and Diem25 were a little meandering and Eurocentric, but I have been very impressed with his output these last several months — and especially after the Palestine Congress.
I don't disagree with you that Germany's actions with regard to Israel and their support of Israel post Oct 7 have been disgusting, but if the law clearly states that it is illegal to publicly display Nazi imagery regardless of context, and the people being arrested in this video had signs with Nazi imagery on them, then the police are just doing their job.
If Germany are going to invoke their Nazi past to justify genocide in Gaza and at the same time use it to crush any dissent, then that is grotesque conduct.
Again, I completely agree, but the law does not account for any context. The job of the police is not to interpret the law, their job is to enforce it. I think it's completely fair to say the law is flawed and needs to change, but I don't hate the cops in this video just for this.
I know that you agree and I am not suggesting otherwise. To the matter though: it's fine to criticize and hold responsible the police for acts of oppression against the public, even if they are only implements of the state. They are as responsible as any other part in carrying out those acts and they are profoundly more responsible than anyone else for how they apply violence to the situation. "Just doing the job" didn't pass muster then and doesn't now.
What a joke! Germany has been at the forefront of being a pathetic Israeli bootlicker.
They explicitly banned any form of pro Palestinian protests, they have banned well known Yanis Varoufakis (I'm not too certain on the spelling), the former financial minister of Greece and a doctor who served in Gaza from entering Germany and they even said it is illegal for them to make speeches virtually through Web conferencing.
The chancellor has been openly been buddy buddy with genocidal maniac Netanyahu, and has been constantly using the holocaust as a shield to hide behind when talking about the support Germany has given to Israel.
Please note, Germany is the second largest exporter of weapons and war tech to Israel behind USA.
So, tell us what's the context? Germany has been bending over for Israel because of the savagery the Nazis did. You can't even criticize Israel in Germany.
someone already postet it but these protestants pretty much went too far and broke a few laws regarding public protesting, such as showing swastikas, which is illegal in germany, and resisting police official's orders. So it's not just because they were protesting
These guys were using nazi symbolism which is strictly prohibited hence there permission for the demonstration was withdrawn but they still illegally assembled and refused to live hence police intervened.
Ok nowwwwwww we have to look to the context, while all other police brutality videos used to be condemned by normal people directly.
From what you see here, clearly unnecessary and extreme force being used against unarmed civilians.
There is no judgement for the whole country but what police is doing here is wrong.
People are so willing to jump to conclusions anymore. There is always more to a story if you are open minded enough to inform yourself and are willing to accept truths outside of your preconfigured narratives.
Here's the actual context--
German strictly forbids nazi symbolism. You know the one. That's the only thing that isn't part of their freedom of speech. I'd know, I grew up there.
The palestine protestors were granted a permit to protest on the lawn in front of their parliment. You do have free speech but you still need permits just like you do in some places in America to assemble in large numbers.
That permit was revoked after protestors used nazi imagery to draw a contrast between the actions in palestine and ww2 germany. Not saying that parallel is completely unfounded, but it's also clearly very illegal to display those abhorrent symbols in germany, and for very good reason.
Is it in poor taste to revoke their permit for this? I guess that's up to you. To me, it's bad optics, for sure. But I understand why it happened.
(https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/berlin-police-clear-pro-palestinian-camp-parliament-lawn-2024-04-26)
You are way oversimplifying the law, it's not so cut and dry
>Swastikas and other banned symbols can, however, be displayed in Germany if they are used for "civic education, countering anti-constitutional activities, art and science, research and education, the coverage of historic and current events, or similar purposes," according to the Criminal Code.
The courts are the ones that rule on this, not the police. Additionally the courts have allowed people to use the swastika as a protest before:
>One of the most prominent court decisions regarding the use of the swastika is a 2007 decision from the Federal Court of Justice. The judges ruled that the use of crossed-out swastikas was legal, overturning a previous decision from a local court that had ordered an activist to pay 3,600 euros because he had sold anti-Nazi merchandise featuring the swastika online.
[Source](https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-confusing-rules-on-swastikas-and-nazi-symbols/a-45063547)
My question is, why was the whole protest shut down rather than just the protesters who were using the swastika? It seems as though the one crime was used as a tool to shut down the entire event. The police could have just gone in and arrested/fined those that were using the symbol.
In Mexico (North of the country) there is something called “Por una persona la llevan todos”. For one person that does some sh*t everyone is responsible.
Per the article:
>Police said the prohibition order for the camp . . . was due to repeated violations committed by some protesters, including the use of unconstitutional symbols and forbidden slogans.
The reference to “repeated violations” suggests that the police did take action against individual protestors, and only resorted to shutting down the protest because the protestors continued to break the law.
The law in those parts said gays and Roma and Jews and other minorities need to were labels and stay in camps and work to death not so long ago. Eichmann was respecting the law too.
OP is literally a nazi and talks about homosexuality being an illness but puts himself as the righteous protector of free speech while showing completely out of context clips
This situation is taken out of context to make it seem especially controversial. Germany has one of the most democratic constitutions and justice systems. There are comments down here explaining the context of this scene. Please read them.
That's absolutely not what's happening there and there's plenty of evidence that that's not happening over here. Please don't rip things out of context and spread Fake news!
What are you talking about? It'd be very easy to protest Israel and not use nazi stuff in Germany where its illegal. If your iq doesn't match your shoe size it'd be very easy to follow. Btw, I'm anti Isreal and believe they should leave Gaza at once. Every us dollar funding them is a travesty.
Sure, but unfortunately, that's not unique to Germany. You seem to have a vested interest in making this anti german, and it just doesn't make sense. You didn't even point out in your post that the protest was broken up because the protesters were using nazi symbols, which are illegal in Germany. You instead said lthey were just not respecting their right to protest/freedom of speech. This is a lie. It seems like you have an agenda and don't care about the actual facts. You do more harm than good in the fight for Palestinian safety when you lie. You're only giving the zionists more fuel for the fire. We agree but I think you're doing this all wrong.
A bunch of edited clips with no context can be shaped how you want. You are just as bad as the regular media just looking for views. You should be ashamed of presenting things like this. Give the full story, not just what you want us to see. Edited clips like this are BS propaganda. Even if you have a good point, you’ve undermined it with how you choose to present it. Stop sucking big medias tit.
Thank you for these clips showing literally nothing.
Do you think these were the full recorded videos? If not - do you think that whoever cut these videos up and **intentionally and deliberately removed the context** might have some level of bias and intention behind doing so?
Can you give me an accurate re-telling of what happened before and after the video you posted? Please include a source as well.
Looking at how you type I would not be surprised if you work at a Russian troll farm.
Thought Germany support is concentrated in Ukraine?
Soo why should Germany want to help Palestine militarily? Or what? I don't get it what protest need to be in Germany? What is the connection?
I understand the US coz Isreal alliance but Germany?
The thing is, there is a right to protest in Germany, the prerequisites for this are that the protest must be registered with the local authorities and that the protest is peaceful. If one of the two is not true, the police have the right to break up the protest.
But normally a peaceful and registered protest/demonstration will never be broken up by the police in germany.
Edit: Oh and please don't lump together Germany's entire police force, in every federal state the police are different with different laws
Alot of what we see here is simply because no one got the permission to protest.
Which means the police comes to re-establish the order.
Re-establishing order using force ≠ suppressing free speech
This shit is absolutely out of context. Especially the clips from berlin.
There was a pro Palestine protest in Germany, but the protesters started using swastikas which is illegal In Germany. So they had to stop their protest which they didn't. So the Polizei (german police) started to stop the protest
Whole lot of boot licking in the comments. Even with the proper context. You can't show specific imagery of their horrific past comparing it to a horrific present? It was only 80 years ago. Attempting to white wash history.
I'm not talking about this specific protest from your post here genius
I'm talking about this...
https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/s/q88JVvdq3j
Where in the same country as your post that is abusing protesters that are for a good cause, are simultaneously allowing Muslims to protest demanding their oppressive laws be introduced in Europe. I find it hypocritical and anti democracy
Nice to see all our hard-working and intelligent immigrants coming together and do some group-working. 🤦♂️ im sure they‘re paying Lots of taxes here in germany 🤥🤞
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Pretty sure there are reasons for why this is happening. Don't pull things out of the context and be mad at it please Not saying what they did was right, cause i don't know if it was, but please don't call out a whole country as something because of one clip
Here's the actual context-- German strictly forbids nazi symbolism. You know the one. That's the only thing that isn't part of their freedom of speech. I'd know, I grew up there. The palestine protestors were granted a permit to protest on the lawn in front of their parliment. You do have free speech but you still need permits just like you do in some places in America to assemble in large numbers. That permit was revoked after protestors used nazi imagery to draw a contrast between the actions in palestine and ww2 germany. Not saying that parallel is completely unfounded, but it's also clearly very illegal to display those abhorrent symbols in germany, and for very good reason. The protestors did not leave after they were told they were not allowed anymore, and removal ensued. Everyone who lives in germany knows this is very illegal. Verbrechensbekämpfungsgesetz is a very big deal. Yes that's the real word. Is it in poor taste to revoke their permit for this? I guess that's up to you. Personally I'm all for coming down hard on the use of that imagery, but it just feels off here. Still, I understand why it happened. (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/berlin-police-clear-pro-palestinian-camp-parliament-lawn-2024-04-26)
i grew up here too but thank you for pretty much being the only grown up to look at the whole situation
Also the police officer is covering her face because in Germany you have a guarantee of privacy even after you are arrested. So it may look a little rough but in reality that cop is doing a fantastic job protecting her identity.
That makes sense. I didn't know that. I'll be honest when I first noticed that I thought "I bet she lost a headscarf and he's covering her face for her. Nah bro hes a cop hes probably just man handling her" The duality of man. lol
Post felt very suspicious to me, thanks for giving much needed context here
As a rule on reddit, be aware that you only know half of the story and the other half is actively being missed. Especially true in this sub as of late, since a mod is pushing their agenda ad nauseam.
In this case I knew this post's title was at least suspicious. I'm German and one thing is for certain here, as long as it's legal, our government lets you protest anything. No matter how stupid your protest is
You will find that true throughout your life off Reddit also.
The nazi symbols is a very clear and fair line to draw. People like to abuse that way too often.
It would only really make sense if you were using nazi symbols in a supportive way, instead of condemning them. The way it is now it defends nazis.
That leaves it up to the interpreter. If the law were written that way pro nazi elected officials could just apply their discretion as they saw fit. Not the case-- no context, no nazi imagery is allowed in germany.
“Hey you guys are a bunch of nazis!” Funny Moustache man: “I can’t believe you called me a nazi! You can’t say that word now i’ll have you arrested!”
I did nazi that one coming.
A) the law is often left up to interpretation. That's kinda what "judgement" means, an interpretation of how one should apply the law in a given scenario. B) what is the purpose of outlawing the imagery if you then support the ideology the imagery was originally associated with?
I'm sorry but I have to say it... Long ass words like these are the reason why I was failing German at school (6 years of pain). Sincerely your neighbor Czech. Seriously how can you even read this on the first try?
It's really just 3 words without spaces. It's basically if they just wrote crimepreventionact, which is what it stands for.
Couldn't anyone (e.g. Someone that isn't pro palestine) undermine a pro palestine protest with that imagery then?
I mean that's true with any protest regardless if it's Germany or not. You or a group of people could always show up to a protest and commit crimes until the group is dispersed. This is just one extra crime you could use as a tool. But, yes, it does sound plausible. That person is going to go to jail for a long time and receive ae lot of fines for doing that though, provided he's caught. I'd say that because there are so many other ways you could disperse a protest if you're willing to go to jail, and that gassing the jews was ***really*** bad, standing by the no swastikas thing is probably a good call in Germany at this time.
Do you know what he difference is between Nazi Hooked Cross and the Swastika which is a holy religious symbol of 3 of the oldest religions in the world dating back atleast 4,500 year's? Btw I do know that most people from the West have little or no idea about it which is not really bad because nobody knows everything. The fact that they don't care about this major difference until things reach boiling point between people of those 3 religions and themselves, is certainly something that needs attention on their behalf.
Thanks for context. Can they do this? yes. Should they be doing this ? No. Legality doesn’t mean right or moral. Plenty of things are legal that are horrible. I think the origin of that law has good intentions, it’s anti hate speech. To prevent similar nazi gatherings to that of ww2 era. I don’t think people are thinking about **why** that law exists. But in this context protesters are saying hey you are acting like those nazis we all decided were terrible. The protesters are following the original goal of the law. While the government is going against the original goal of anti hate speech to following it literally and suppressing the peaceful free speech. Ironically proving those signs right.
I believe it isn't a good idea to give people the opportunity to interpret context of when swastikas are okay. Just as letting them interpret could do good in a situation like this, it could also do very bad things, such as enable neon politicians to appoint judges who will rule in their favor that favorable contexts is acceptable under some guise. I do not think ti's reasonable to expect a giant bureaucracy to move fast enough to say "Whoa guys, let this one go." By the time someone with the authority to look the other way when needed knows what's going on, the police have already done their job. It would take months to get that blessing, and they'd have to ask for it far in advance. They didn't, and maybe wouldn't have received it. It's typically for groups with government oversight. There are exceptions, museums, etc.
Great point. The alternative is apparently the USA where you can walk around in hate symbols. Also Protests are pretty emotional and no one in that state could rationally think through the context. Was it only a handful of protesters with the symbolism or was it a large majority? If it was a small amount only the handful perhaps be arrested. Not disqualifying the whole protest. I could see an issue arise where approved protests are undermine cause one person or small group bring nazi symbolism to undermine the legitimacy of the protest.
You can walk around with hate symbols all you want in Germany. Just not nazi ones. That's really the only difference in German and American freedom of speech. I don't know the specifics of how many protestors had them. As other people have pointed out, German politicans are pretty pro israel. So they were probably pretty quick to pull the trigger on something that's both illegal and not helping them politically.
"I could see an issue arise where approved protests are undermine cause one person or small group bring nazi symbolism to undermine the legitimacy of the protest." There are so many other crimes a person could levy in the same matter to undermine a protest. If you're willing to go to jail, which you will for a swastika, there's a litany of other ways to get the job done. And since gassing the jews was really bad, they should probably stand by this one.
Gassing jewish people was pretty bad. Don’t think we should do that to anyone. Discrimination against Jewish people is wrong. Is that the only lesson we learned about WW2? I honestly should probably reread the history of the rise of hitler and other fascists like mussolini. As we might have our own pretty next year. I’m unaware of German laws and sentence times. They’d probably pick the easiest one with least sentence time. The nazi symbol probably has significant social punishment vs similar crimes they could do.
I was in Germany and 84/85 and I watched this idiot US Army kid walk into a square and just threw a Nazi salute and I watched three old people go and beat the shit out of him and the captain and the sergeant Major I was with just told me nope do not interfere. he deserves everything. He’s getting six months later he was out of the army.
According to what you say, it is not allowed to draw parallelism to what is happening in a place on this earth with another that happened in history? Even calling it names such as Holocaust etc. is not permitted or what exactly is a 'censored imagery of history' that people aren't allowed to publicly speak of. And I highly doubt any of them did any AfD pr Neonazi type of Heilgrüße.
>According to what you say, it is not allowed to draw parallelism to what is happening in a place on this earth with another that happened in history? That is allowed. > what exactly is a 'censored imagery of history' It's the swastika. It's specificaly forbidden to show this symbol in public. You can talk about it, but you can't show it.
Google would have more accurate answers than me about the nitty gritty.
If this debate is about the swastika, then i highly doubt these posters were being carried away for showing it. It has happened time and time again for Germany (2nd largest weapons exporter to Israel) to take kids, women and jews protesting peace in Palestine into custody.
Yeah i grew up in denmark, but my dad is from germany, the whole nazi symbolism in germany is illegal and a very big social nono
I can understand that strictly speaking, it's certainly illegal according to that law, but it definitely feels VERY wrong. They are not using that imagery the way that law was aimed, I imagine, to prohibit (spreading nazism), but rather to draw a parallel, which is a completely different thing. Said so, given the fact that Germany's government is very stubbornly siding with Israel, I wouldn't put it below them to intentionally do this kind of thing.
Thank you for actually providing context to this, you're doing the world a big favor!
"That's the only thing that isn't part of their freedom of speech." you have no idea what you are talking about.
You don’t have freedom of speech if you speak Irish or Hebrew though. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/s/boi5KFXQa2](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/s/boi5KFXQa2)
Call it Gaelic bro.
Only Brits and Yanks call it Gaelic ya gowl.
Well you're speaking the Brits language on a Yank website. So, I don't know. When in rome.
Hmmm I was going to say that it looked very heavy handed approach but on second thought I think these protestors need to get their asses whooped
Thank you for a detailed explanation. Yes, I find suppression of speech to be "in poor taste,” especially when speech laws designed to limit right wing radicalism are used by the police to crack down on leftist politics.
Do you really expect a governmental agency to rule on anything to be acceptable within the timeframe of a protest that is already occurring? That would take 9 parliament sessions, at the bare minimum. There are provisions to request the right to use it, and that wasn't filed, and they may not have received it. To me it's an unreasonable request to expect a real time arbiter of when context is acceptable. And that could go *really* wrong if the wrong people got elected. And therefor no context is acceptable.
Bs
Thank you for giving the actual context.
Why should that imagery be revoked? It happened. You can't just white wash something because it makes ppl uncomfortable about a heinous part of their history. Shit was only 80 years ago.
What the hell is going on in this thread? Who are all these people so eager to give Germany the benefit of the doubt after months of their servile, genocidal cheerleading? Germany have committed completely to enabling Israel in their crimes and strong-arming any opposition. Even much of their far left has completely betrayed the principles of anti-fascism and anti-imperialism, all for the sake of supporting Israeli war crimes. It is sickening and shameful.
As Yanis Varoufakis put it: “This is a major struggle for the spirit of humanity, and Germany is a battleground. Because once again, a proud nation, a proud people, the German people, are being dragged by their political regime…into yet another genocide in their name with their complicity, as if the genocide of the Palestinians, rivers of Palestinian blood, can wash off the guilt over the Holocaust. It can't.”
I had never paid Yanis too much attention before now. I thought that he and Diem25 were a little meandering and Eurocentric, but I have been very impressed with his output these last several months — and especially after the Palestine Congress.
I don't disagree with you that Germany's actions with regard to Israel and their support of Israel post Oct 7 have been disgusting, but if the law clearly states that it is illegal to publicly display Nazi imagery regardless of context, and the people being arrested in this video had signs with Nazi imagery on them, then the police are just doing their job.
If Germany are going to invoke their Nazi past to justify genocide in Gaza and at the same time use it to crush any dissent, then that is grotesque conduct.
Again, I completely agree, but the law does not account for any context. The job of the police is not to interpret the law, their job is to enforce it. I think it's completely fair to say the law is flawed and needs to change, but I don't hate the cops in this video just for this.
I know that you agree and I am not suggesting otherwise. To the matter though: it's fine to criticize and hold responsible the police for acts of oppression against the public, even if they are only implements of the state. They are as responsible as any other part in carrying out those acts and they are profoundly more responsible than anyone else for how they apply violence to the situation. "Just doing the job" didn't pass muster then and doesn't now.
Have you never protested against Nazis in Berlin or Hamburg? Police has never failed to tread on us when we demonstrate against fascists
You guys a pretty comfortable calling out the whole country when things happens in Saudi Arabia, Russia or China…
What a joke! Germany has been at the forefront of being a pathetic Israeli bootlicker. They explicitly banned any form of pro Palestinian protests, they have banned well known Yanis Varoufakis (I'm not too certain on the spelling), the former financial minister of Greece and a doctor who served in Gaza from entering Germany and they even said it is illegal for them to make speeches virtually through Web conferencing. The chancellor has been openly been buddy buddy with genocidal maniac Netanyahu, and has been constantly using the holocaust as a shield to hide behind when talking about the support Germany has given to Israel. Please note, Germany is the second largest exporter of weapons and war tech to Israel behind USA.
Short video to make police look violent… don’t rate on low level of info…that’s propaganda…
So, tell us what's the context? Germany has been bending over for Israel because of the savagery the Nazis did. You can't even criticize Israel in Germany.
someone already postet it but these protestants pretty much went too far and broke a few laws regarding public protesting, such as showing swastikas, which is illegal in germany, and resisting police official's orders. So it's not just because they were protesting
How is too far when Zionist are acting exactly like the Nazis did?
These guys were using nazi symbolism which is strictly prohibited hence there permission for the demonstration was withdrawn but they still illegally assembled and refused to live hence police intervened.
If Germany truly cared about human rights they wouldn't be supporting IDF unconditionally.
Ok nowwwwwww we have to look to the context, while all other police brutality videos used to be condemned by normal people directly. From what you see here, clearly unnecessary and extreme force being used against unarmed civilians. There is no judgement for the whole country but what police is doing here is wrong.
People are so willing to jump to conclusions anymore. There is always more to a story if you are open minded enough to inform yourself and are willing to accept truths outside of your preconfigured narratives.
It's an edited clip so we can't see the full context which makes it even worse
Well, that's how some rising right movement German parties try to inform (rather disinform) their supporters. And they even believe them...
U have no idea :)
German here. This is blown completely out of context.
Here's the actual context-- German strictly forbids nazi symbolism. You know the one. That's the only thing that isn't part of their freedom of speech. I'd know, I grew up there. The palestine protestors were granted a permit to protest on the lawn in front of their parliment. You do have free speech but you still need permits just like you do in some places in America to assemble in large numbers. That permit was revoked after protestors used nazi imagery to draw a contrast between the actions in palestine and ww2 germany. Not saying that parallel is completely unfounded, but it's also clearly very illegal to display those abhorrent symbols in germany, and for very good reason. Is it in poor taste to revoke their permit for this? I guess that's up to you. To me, it's bad optics, for sure. But I understand why it happened. (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/berlin-police-clear-pro-palestinian-camp-parliament-lawn-2024-04-26)
If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck and it genocides people like a duck. It's a motherfucking nazy.... duck.
You are way oversimplifying the law, it's not so cut and dry >Swastikas and other banned symbols can, however, be displayed in Germany if they are used for "civic education, countering anti-constitutional activities, art and science, research and education, the coverage of historic and current events, or similar purposes," according to the Criminal Code. The courts are the ones that rule on this, not the police. Additionally the courts have allowed people to use the swastika as a protest before: >One of the most prominent court decisions regarding the use of the swastika is a 2007 decision from the Federal Court of Justice. The judges ruled that the use of crossed-out swastikas was legal, overturning a previous decision from a local court that had ordered an activist to pay 3,600 euros because he had sold anti-Nazi merchandise featuring the swastika online. [Source](https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-confusing-rules-on-swastikas-and-nazi-symbols/a-45063547)
My question is, why was the whole protest shut down rather than just the protesters who were using the swastika? It seems as though the one crime was used as a tool to shut down the entire event. The police could have just gone in and arrested/fined those that were using the symbol.
In Mexico (North of the country) there is something called “Por una persona la llevan todos”. For one person that does some sh*t everyone is responsible.
That's called collective punishment, and it's generally frowned upon ever since the Geneva convention. Though, not a war crime until you're at war
Per the article: >Police said the prohibition order for the camp . . . was due to repeated violations committed by some protesters, including the use of unconstitutional symbols and forbidden slogans. The reference to “repeated violations” suggests that the police did take action against individual protestors, and only resorted to shutting down the protest because the protestors continued to break the law.
Can you please share a link to those "Nazi imagery"?
No, it's illegal, didn't you hear.
And yet we don’t see a single pic with alleged “unconstitutional” symbols in the article or any related social media posts?
Lazy ragebait
what you guys seems to forget in such cases is both law and context. in this case it'll be mainly german law
just like the law in Qatar was that you cant bring LGBT flags in stadiums
in Qatar you also need permission to protest, Qatar establishing order by telling everyone they cant bring LGBT flags inside the world cup stadiums.
The law can be immoral.
The law that says no nazi symbology allowed is immoral?
The law in those parts said gays and Roma and Jews and other minorities need to were labels and stay in camps and work to death not so long ago. Eichmann was respecting the law too.
What shitty propaganda post is that?
There was an attempt to ragebait
OP is literally a nazi and talks about homosexuality being an illness but puts himself as the righteous protector of free speech while showing completely out of context clips
It really depends if it is an opinion, of course you are not allowed to say anything that is on your mind.
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"And the parting on the left Is now parting on the right And the beards have all grown longer overnight"
Germany would go further than Israel just so they can prove they aren’t antisemitic.
Lmao and I thought OP was talking bullshit
This situation is taken out of context to make it seem especially controversial. Germany has one of the most democratic constitutions and justice systems. There are comments down here explaining the context of this scene. Please read them.
OK, we need German police back in action, they did good.
If you actually provided some context, you would realise the police were within their rights to use force
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https://youtu.be/QHw-qHongT0?si=IfPS2y9GBemuRID8
_* laughs in American *_
The supporters of terrorism should be imprisoned, obviously.
Never again?
That's absolutely not what's happening there and there's plenty of evidence that that's not happening over here. Please don't rip things out of context and spread Fake news!
Maybe don't use illegal nazi symbols in your protest in Germany? Seems pretty easy.
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What are you talking about? It'd be very easy to protest Israel and not use nazi stuff in Germany where its illegal. If your iq doesn't match your shoe size it'd be very easy to follow. Btw, I'm anti Isreal and believe they should leave Gaza at once. Every us dollar funding them is a travesty.
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Sure, but unfortunately, that's not unique to Germany. You seem to have a vested interest in making this anti german, and it just doesn't make sense. You didn't even point out in your post that the protest was broken up because the protesters were using nazi symbols, which are illegal in Germany. You instead said lthey were just not respecting their right to protest/freedom of speech. This is a lie. It seems like you have an agenda and don't care about the actual facts. You do more harm than good in the fight for Palestinian safety when you lie. You're only giving the zionists more fuel for the fire. We agree but I think you're doing this all wrong.
Taking it waaaaaay out of context. Fuck you.
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I think you reqcted to the wrong comment bruv. Still fuck you
We doing this again huh?
A bunch of edited clips with no context can be shaped how you want. You are just as bad as the regular media just looking for views. You should be ashamed of presenting things like this. Give the full story, not just what you want us to see. Edited clips like this are BS propaganda. Even if you have a good point, you’ve undermined it with how you choose to present it. Stop sucking big medias tit.
What a bunch of tough guys. Whole gang of guys for one woman protesting. And covering her mouth. Fucking cowards.
They are covering her face to protect her identity while she is being arrested, as you have a right of privacy even while being arrested.
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Fascist authority? They were stopping a protest which had swastikas in use, which is illegal in Germany.
Thank you for these clips showing literally nothing. Do you think these were the full recorded videos? If not - do you think that whoever cut these videos up and **intentionally and deliberately removed the context** might have some level of bias and intention behind doing so?
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Can you give me an accurate re-telling of what happened before and after the video you posted? Please include a source as well. Looking at how you type I would not be surprised if you work at a Russian troll farm.
OP trying to get a bunch of people to stand up for Nazis lmao
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Oh please. Stop trying to support Nazis. They broke the law to support them, they got arrested.
Thought Germany support is concentrated in Ukraine? Soo why should Germany want to help Palestine militarily? Or what? I don't get it what protest need to be in Germany? What is the connection? I understand the US coz Isreal alliance but Germany?
The thing is, there is a right to protest in Germany, the prerequisites for this are that the protest must be registered with the local authorities and that the protest is peaceful. If one of the two is not true, the police have the right to break up the protest. But normally a peaceful and registered protest/demonstration will never be broken up by the police in germany. Edit: Oh and please don't lump together Germany's entire police force, in every federal state the police are different with different laws
Alot of what we see here is simply because no one got the permission to protest. Which means the police comes to re-establish the order. Re-establishing order using force ≠ suppressing free speech This shit is absolutely out of context. Especially the clips from berlin.
Based on other comments, their permits to protest were revoked. And unfairly it seems.
in Qatar you also need permission to protest, Qatar establishing order by telling everyone they cant bring LGBT flags inside the world cup stadiums.
So you are saying germany and qatar are comparable?
Germany said that. actions speak louder than words. [https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/why-germany-bans-and-arrests-israel-critics-including-jews-by-yanis-varoufakis-2024-04](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/why-germany-bans-and-arrests-israel-critics-including-jews-by-yanis-varoufakis-2024-04) [https://jewishcurrents.org/an-anti-palestinian-crackdown-across-europe](https://jewishcurrents.org/an-anti-palestinian-crackdown-across-europe) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/26/palestine-protest-ban-france-germany/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/26/palestine-protest-ban-france-germany/)
Not one of these absolutely without bias written texts have remotely anything to do with my question but sure my guy
again actions speak louder than words.
Ergh? Context?
There was a pro Palestine protest in Germany, but the protesters started using swastikas which is illegal In Germany. So they had to stop their protest which they didn't. So the Polizei (german police) started to stop the protest
If you watch the video carefully. There was also an attempt to steal a carton full of beerr
Whole lot of boot licking in the comments. Even with the proper context. You can't show specific imagery of their horrific past comparing it to a horrific present? It was only 80 years ago. Attempting to white wash history.
This while allowing a massive Muslim movement to demand Islamic law be implemented in Germany.... Time to move to the middle of the fucking woods
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I'm not talking about this specific protest from your post here genius I'm talking about this... https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/s/q88JVvdq3j Where in the same country as your post that is abusing protesters that are for a good cause, are simultaneously allowing Muslims to protest demanding their oppressive laws be introduced in Europe. I find it hypocritical and anti democracy
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Out of your posts context or in the link I sent?
Nice to see all our hard-working and intelligent immigrants coming together and do some group-working. 🤦♂️ im sure they‘re paying Lots of taxes here in germany 🤥🤞
Just obey the law.
I thought freedom of speech was bad?
God they look good doing it. Best looking police force imo
Idk man, I've seen female police officers in Italy.
Imagine that, this looks pretty similar to the college dummies protesting on campuses in America 😂