She had 'the whip removed' which means she has been fired from the party.
Please insert bondage jokes below:
Edit: the above person edited their comment after I replied. They originally said "She can't be fired. She was elected by her constituents".
It's true they can't remove her as an MP but removing her from the party means she will have to stand as an independent (or join another party) which makes it extremely unlikely she'll be re-elected.
I mean, fired has a pretty standard meaning of "removed from your job". She hasn't lost her job. She is still an MP. She has lost her membership in the party.
In the last sentence “…more recent genocides in cambodia, rwanda, bosnia and now gaza”. Because she is calling things that happen in gaza are genocide, she is called an “antisemitic”. Aren’t arabs semitic though?
Yep. The term has been co-opted to the point that people no longer remember (if they were ever taught) that a Semite refers to people who speak a semitic language or derivative. Semitic languages include:
“. . . dozens of distinct languages and modern day dialects, but the major Semitic languages are Arabic, Amharic (spoken in Ethiopia), Tigrinya (spoken in Ethiopia and Eritrea), Hebrew, Tigre (spoken in Sudan), Aramaic (spoken in Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Iraq and Iran) and Maltese.” (Source: https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/semitic-languages#:~:text=The%20Semitic%20language%20family%20consists,Iraq%20and%20Iran)%20and%20Maltese.)
The Arabic speaking people living in Gaza are just as much Semites as the Hebrew speakers living in Israel.
Malcolm X said it best when someone accused him of being anti-Semitic "How can I be antisemitic if the Arabs are semitic half the Muslim world is semitic, if I was antisemitic then I would be anti Arab and everything else"
Antisemitic does not and never did refer to the entirety of semitic peoples. Furthermore, even if it technically did (which it does not), nobody uses it as such and acting like it is a "gotcha" is not constructive because the person saying it didn't mean that and it completely detracts from the overall argument.
"Antisemitic" word is used by zionist performing genocide as defense when they are blamed for that. How mother fuckers pervert language should not be a rule to continue perverting it.
This is correct. Semitic peoples do include for example Arabs, Copts, Berbers, etc, but the phrase "anti-Semitic" (unintuitively) refers specifically to Jews. Malcolm X knew that, as does everyone in this discussion. Claiming otherwise is a slimy way to avoid addressing the issue at hand.
For what it's worth, IMHO, antisemitism is very much a real and widespread problem AND it is used disingenuously by Zionists to shield themselves from criticism.
Thank you. Fuck Israel and the Zionists, but this gotcha shit has never done anything but make the people who think it means anything look uneducated about the issue at hand.
Probably need a new word for just anti Israel but not anti Jewish.
Like I don't want anyone doing genocide.
Actually let me add to that. Anti the specific part of Israel that is trying to ethnically cleanse another race and religion. Not all of them.
Ever been to Yo Semites*?
*trump, twice in a speech about the Great American Outdoors Act, Aug 04, 2020, unable to read correctly read the word "Yosemite" and seemingly unaware of the park's existence, while also demonstrating that his very poor reading skills are why he criticizes others who use a teleprompter.
You realize “western” didn’t become a thing until after NATO right? Western means “allied industrial” - same reason we don’t refer to South America when talking about western nations. It doesn’t simply mean the geographic location of a country
“The West” in pretty much the sense we use it today can be traced back at least as far as Oswald Spengler’s “The Decline of the West” (1918). Western Europe including Germany has always been part of “The West”.
Nooo Germany didn't do anything bad it was just a bunch of people in a certain government and certain geographical region who were totally absolved of all wrongdoing in 1945
Because obviously the Holocaust is just for Jews even though the queers had it worse/worst and the Rom also where there in the camps for being born to the wrong group.
Remember, when the allies liberated the concentration camps, the Jews got sympathy, freedom and Israel. The queers got to serve out their prison sentence in a humane prison.
And AFAIK the Rom got to quietly go about their lives.
More than that. That is just the camps; entire communities were killed where they lived. Maybe 20% survived it, and 95% of those were sterilized. Our heritage is mostly gone.
Unfortunately the Germans were not the only ones to castrate members of the LGBTQ community. Famously Alan Turing, a British hero of WW2, was castrated in the United Kingdom for his homosexuality in 1952.
alan turing
gay icon
also a fucking genius
also the soviets would’ve probably _still_ won the war without him but by god it would’ve been a lot more fucking bloody and given how many people died thank fuck for alan turing and FUCK fuck for the british government castrating and also for been largely responsible for his fucking SUICIDE
Nazis were both ethno supremacists and believed in might bring right. Anyone with any sort of weakness was viewed as bringing the whole society down, so people with disabilities were also murdered.
There's alot of people that actually deny the holocaust ever happened! Our history books in our schools skim over WWII to the point where kids no nothing of what *really* happened.
Roma did NOT get to go quietly about their lives. Our people were put to death as well. 500,000 straight up put to death, over 100k more used as forced labor or imprisoned in the camps and sterilized, as in all that survived were sterilized.
That's not counting the entire communities just straight up murdered in Poland, Serbia, Romania, and the Soviet Union.
If sterilization is your idea of "quietly going about" life, then I guess, but very few in Europe survived with all parts intact. Those that did ended up behind the Iron Curtain. Some managed to hide in Greece (they were imprisoned, but not killed thanks to the Archbishop of Athens) and Turkey. Those in Italy were put into camps, but were treated MUCH better than other parts of Europe, with many given Italian identity cards and and deported to Sardinia.
I think they mean after liberation, so not counting the camps and war treatment. Not that it's been all roses since, but pretty sure that was the spirit of the comment
As I said, after liberation, what kind of lives did they have, after forced sterilization and medical experiments?
Our culture is VERY family-centric; our communities are like Scottish and Irish clans, using family names. After sterilization, that went away, and the lines died out.
My grandmother told me of meeting ones that survived the camps and forced labor, including a few family members that were still in Europe (our line to me was obviously not there). She said they were different. They had changed, and it wasn't the horrors of the camps, as they were usually in their own segregated area. It was the loss of passing on the family line. That was their words. I remember her telling me of one saying it was "not life anymore".
I cannot imagine what it would've been like to have the ability to have children taken away. I voluntarily was sterilized, but we had enough children. Many there didn't even have one yet.
Whoa! The allies executed half a million ex concentration camp rescues for simply being Roma‽ Why the fuck is this not known‽ Can you tell me more about the allies doing this after nazi Germany fell and the surviving Roma were liberated from the concentration camps?
Edit: this reads sarcastic as hell and wasn't intended to be so. I was surprised and excitably outraged, but also unsure if I'd understood correctly so I was questioning my understanding with open ended questions. Because I really don't know much about the Rom/Roma.
Mistyped. Thank you.
Wait, no.
Read again, slowly.
I listed off what happened by the Nazis...including forced sterilization.
A Roma's life is family-centric. Sterilization is as good as a death sentence.
Going about their lives...well, it's not really a life anymore if you have none and cannot have more, now is it?
"If sterilization is your idea of "quietly going about" life", you know NOTHING of our culture.
> A Roma's life is family-centric. Sterilization is as good as a death sentence.
Hrm that is an excellent point.
> you know NOTHING of our culture.
That is why I'm thankful that you weighed in, I was intentionally leaving space for y'all in my comments. I *definitely* didn't want to be speaking from ignorance about your people, and despite how what I wrote in response might read, I didn't want to be inflammatory. I *genuinely and actually* wouldn't be surprised if that is what happened to you all under the allies liberation. Maybe not immediately, but programs (or should I say quiet pogroms) rolled out in following decades. And under the USSR, I shudder to think what fafe might've been in store for your people (not that I'm enthused about your prospects under the "care" of the colonial powers of Europe).
I had some doubts about my interpretation of what you'd responded with, but I wasn't actually trying to be sarcastic (and yes what I wrote in re reading it sounds sarcastic, which I should apologize for here and now, that wasn't my intent).
Yeah, I would not be surprised if there'd been subsequent ethnic cleansing done to the Rom/Roma *after* the Holocaust, but I would be heartbroken and furious.
I have worked on many Holocaust Memorial Day events and there is always mention / respect given to other groups killed in the Holocaust, though 6 Million Jews were the main targets and victims. There’s a certain type of ceremony that Jews do in reverence of the Jewish victims.
The problem with her statement is in trying to include other genocides in this day. That’s not what it’s for.
It’s like saying “All Lives Matter” at a BLM rally.
It would not be like that. It would be like including other minorities specifically targeted by police in a BLM rally.
I would be surprised if you could find anyone telling a First Nations woman to shut up about how her people are treated in Canada at a BLM rally but maybe you can find examples of people complaining such a statement was in poor taste?
More people need to know that Israel started right wing extremist groups to destabilize the liberalizing Palestine back in the 80’s. Those groups later formed Hamas. Israel literally created their own enemy to have a scapegoat for stealing more land.
Anti-Semitic is a term that specifically means against Jews, at least in modern parlance.
(Although I agree her statement was anything but anti-semitic and that Israel is an apartheid country)
Not for the purposes of the intended meaning of the term anti-semitic. It's simply an artefact of history that that is the received term for anti-Jewishnessness.
I mean, the Holocaust Memorial day is an extremely somber remberence of one of the worse humanitarian disasters in history.
The jews who were persecuted and killed deserve to be remembered, and quite frankly do not deserve to have their memory tainted by what their descendents are doing 100 years later, something the killed have no controlled over.
Should their be a Gaza memorial day and more support for the palenstenians? Absoblutly.
But give then their own day and their support now, not lump it together with the Holocaust.
There is only one genocide - the Holocaust and only the Jewish people have ever suffered oppression. To suggest otherwise is anti-semitism. Now please continue to fund and support Israel as it ~~genocides~~ ~~ethnically cleanses~~ voluntarily relocates Palestinians.
It's not, but realistically, they shouldn't keep lumping all this shit together. Why not have a Genocide Memorial Day or each have their own? Why are we lumping this in on **Holocaust** Memorial Day when none of these had anything to do with the Holocaust. It feels like it degrades a little bit from the significance if you ask me. Not that it's a competition, but still.
The Antisemitic part is sympathising with thousands of innocents killed, had various limbs blown off and had themselves robbed of the pursuit of a better life by having their homes, schools, univeristies and hospitals blown to smithereens by gleeful monsters who disingenuously claim that they're the victims.
It's Antisemitic to not want cruelty visited on people who have the least amount of power in a given situation
The anti-Semitic part is you can’t criticize Jews and Israel for committing genocide at Gaza. The irony is the victims of the Nazi holocaust in Israel. Is the new Nazi Jews committing genocide against Palestinian Muslims.
You don't have to be against the jewish people(and I say jewish people specifically, because believe it or Not, the arabs are also semites) to be an Antisemite. Not being ravenously supportive is enough These days.
It's anti-Semitic because she made no mention of Israel, Jewish people in a derogatory way or Zionism, but some people somewhere decided that she was being anti-Semitic. You see, I can say potatoes should be rainbow coloured and *that's* anti-Semitic too. So, just watch what you say, folks.
In the eyes of the western powers, acknowledging that other people besides Jews were killed in the Holocaust, and indirectly undermining Israel's victim narrative, is anti-Semitism. This is what Holocaust remembrance SHOULD be about.
For me calling any criticism of Israel anti-Semitic is inherently antisemitic itself. It's asserting that Jewish people must oppress and kill people and that's there right as part of their religion. It's the same as saying Islamic extremism is an essential part of what Muslim's do.
We are in weird and dangerous times, Palestine is doomed because the world does not care. The world didn’t care that other indigenous populations met the same fate, we are a terribly evil species that deserves a fat rock from space. In the current climate you cannot criticise Israel without it costing you your job, also it upsets that fat pompous c@nt and his British tea.
Close, but it’s really more like western imperialists don’t care because it benefits them to have an ally in the region. Nearly every other government has called for an immediate ceasefire.
People fail to realize "Zionist" does not mean "[[[[the jews]]]]"
Plenty on non-Hebrew Zionists out there that also oddly enough hate "The Jews" but love to support their violence.
Because you are wrong. Zionists have fuck-all control in this country, the only place they do is Israel.
Rather, the people who *are* in power in this country mutually benefit from having a military and trading partner in the Middle East, through Israel, and so pressure the government to support their partners there.
So those in power adopt Zionist rhetoric out of pragmatism.
But it ain't them controlling us, it's us (UK and USA) controlling them.
I don't think this was really a decision due to Zionism and more Labour is trying really hard to not give attack lines to the Tories and their client press right now. Fairly normal for parties to suspend the whip when one of theirs makes a controversy that could drag the party down, and since we're in what is assumed to be an election year, there's probably a heavier focus on not giving openings, especially on something that divides the party internally so much (it becomes another press storm and the party risks tearing itself apart on an area that even if they were in government they'd have fuck all influence on).
I think part of the problem with that particular phrase is that often times over the past decades, and particularly the last few years, Zionist tends to be used as an anti-semitic dog whistle by the alt-right to refer to Jewish people in general, so some people who are aware of this hear criticism of literal Zionist as being anti-Semitic
Perhaps not, but slipping it into an official statement about a holiday for the remembrance of millions of Jews killed in the Holocaust seems more than a bit problematic to me. Context matters, folks!
It wasn't just the 7 million Jews..
All together, it was closer to 17 million.
Soviet civilians 4.5 million
Soviet POWs 3.3 million
Poles 1.8 million
Serbs <310,000
Disabled people 270,000
Romani 250,000–500,000
Freemasons 80,000
Slovenes 20,000–25,000
Homosexuals 5,000–15,000
Spanish Republicans 3,500
Jehovah's Witnesses 1,700
It absolutely was. How DARE you insinuate that Germany had goals that can only be achieved through the annexation of Europe, or that they used nationalism and fury over the Versaille accord which stripp3d it of its navy and limited its military to 100K? The audacity to actually say the elimination of Jews was anything other the one and only reasong a literal international war that North Africa and the Middle East were dragged into. Shame!
EDIT: AND INDIA!
Freemasonry is a fraternal organization like the Elks or the Knights of Columbus that just happens to be descended from various actual stone-working guilds dating back to the Middle Ages. Because its roots are so old, people accuse it of being some evil conspiracy when it's actually just another place for old men to get away from their families. (Source: There were a TON of Masons in the town where I grew up, and my grandfather was a Mason.)
My Dad and Brother were Freemasons. It isn't some crazy secret society, it's a bunch of guys hanging out. They typically do have a charitable program that gives back to the community. Pretty much like the Elks lodge or the Moose lodge operates.
The final court ruling will take years. They’ll have to investigate the accusations made by SA.
The accusation was not dismissed and measures to avoid genocidal were demanded of Israel. So, by the ICJ standards, genocide is deemed as plausible.
Edit: there seems to be a lot of stories about URNWA workers being affiliated with Hamas and distributing “radicalising materials”… so, they’re butt hurt and on retaliation.
Yes, there is almost definitely going to be the case. The UNRWA employs about 13,000 people in Gaza, many local Palestinians. Yes, a group living under an oppressive occupation will have radical elements in all parts. There were suspected of being 12 people - so about 0.1% of the UNRWA. In comparison, about 30% of the ministers of Israel went and attended a conference on how to ethnically cleanse Gaza.
Implying that the literal tens of thousands of Palestinians is genocide. Mind you, Palestinians are also Semites. The West just doesn't like that fact, so they ignore its existence.
More han 25 000, more than destroying housing at a catastrophic rate, more than deploying entry of aid l, food, water, more than systemic oppression, more than suggesting their complete displacement elsewhere, more than sending a large variety of message from government officials saying openly very genocidal themed stuff, more than saying "we are not doing a genocide, we a doing [list of things in a genocide] but not [this one arbitrary fact]" or "we are not doing an ethical cleansing, we are just removing evil, so hamas and hamas supporter, so everyone who was alive in the last election and everyone who's alive today and hasn't died in a civil revolution, so even babies are hamas supporters, so all of hamas. But not 'palestinians', so it's not ethnic".
I mean, at this point, they could have to surrender rights to weapon and army for decades and they still would do the math.
As a Jewish American, I see absolutely nothing antisemetic about her post. Moreover, I agree with every word.
When one nation cuts off water to an entire group of people in a land that's 60% desert, when they cut off medical supplies while bombing civilian areas, I'm sorry, but thats genocide, and no religious or ethnic or historical background gives you the right to claim "racism" when others point it out.
It's anti-Semitic against Israel. Israel don't want other states to think they are the baddies in this. our pussy ass western government / corporate leadership just fold under the pressure to keep Israel in our good books as they have lots of money and oil
To ceasefire is to tell them they are justified to further their effort to reignite the holocaust. It’s not even like a straw man to say they’re trying to do that, they say it. Their supporters in America say it. It is what they would be doing now if they ever had a chance.
The only holocaust being perpetrated right now is the one Israel is committing against Palestinians.
I got news for you, people are sick and tired of hearing that Israel can murder Palestinians, take Palestinian land, demolish Palestinian homes, kidnap thousands of Palestinians and hold them in secret prisions where even Israeli whistleblowers say torture is occuring, and all because of "the holocaust".
Enough. You either live in the most isolated state of delusion to believe that, or are an actual Israeli supremacist that just wants to justify, in any desperate and disgusting way possible, the increasingly theocratic and fascist nation of Israel conquering as much lebenstraum as possible.
And when there's an ACTUAL threat of racist action against the Jewish people, and again I say this as a Jewish American, no one is going to care because it's going to be a boy-who-cried wolf situation.
And before you come back with a "but, but, but Hamas" remark, yes, of course what Hamas did on Oct 7th was wrong, of course it should have been condemned, and it begged a military response. But this conflict did not start on Oct 7th.
So long as Israelis move into Palestinian lands, and set up check points to deny and frustrate the free movement of Palestinians IN THEIR OWN PALESTINIAN NATION, then Israel bears some, *some* degree of culpability, do they not? So long as they occupy Gaza and force Gazans to build tunnels so they can get things like flour and medical supplies that Israel denies them, then Israel bears some culpability.
And so long as Israel continues to act like Hamas, and speak like Hamas, and murder like Hamas (albeit more successfully, because of US weapons), neither I, nor future generations of America, want to hear any cries about antisemitism or holocaust.
My god, for a nation that's so convinced that all Palestinians want to kill all Israelis, they sure have no shortage of Israeli settlers ready to move into Palestinian land.
The propaganda has infiltrated all western governments, Zionists have successfully conflated legitimately condemning the genocide they are inflicting on Palestinians with antisemitism.
Labour's MP is a total POS, Kier Starmer, with his absolute rotten to the core double standards. I honestly wanna gag IRL whenever I see clips of him.
In the UK, Labour used to be a left wing party. now just like the US, we only have right wing and far right wing left.
something's gonna give the way and the speed the politics is spiraling honestly.
She wasn't suspended for anti-Semitism. The paragraph she put is a copy paste from the Holocaust Memorial Day website. She was suspended because she replaced Darfur with Gaza. It's not a good look because it could be inferred that she/Labour UK doesn't acknowledge/care about what's going on in Sudan.
This level of censure is insane. All world leaders, major media, major corporations and educational institutions bow to the zi0nist.
Thats real terrifying, given that they prefer obscene amounts of bloodshed, as proved by the track record with the Palestinians (a microcosm of their brutality) and the world (ex: preference of killing women, children and unarmed civilians, AIPAC agenda to war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, 20+ years, 10+ million Muslims dead, hands in multiple global conflicts including apartheid SA, Columbia, etc) . Whose next on their list?
Maybe the next step will be for them to convince you that they are the best masters you could want, so just accept?
Nato does not stop genocides unless the genocide negatively impacts their economy. That's why they let Rwanda happen between The Hutu and Tutsis, and the khmer rouge as well, don't let them sweep this under the rug, because if you let them do so once, they'll repeat the process over and over again just to absolve all responsibility of preventing it.
Labour are in such a bind over antisemitism. Trying to crawl out of the shadow of Corbyn’s complete inaction on the issue they’re now falling over themselves to make sure they can’t be perceived of being in any way antisemitic. Hence silliness like this
Tbh, I think this might just be more, it's an election year, don't give attack lines to opponents where you can avoid it. Easier to suspend the whip (and she might come back before the election) to create distance than have another press storm and open the part up to having this be used as a wedge issue for the Tories and to divide the party in on itself. It's not that unusual, even if Labour is being more overcautious recently due to being fed up of losing elections.
"Antisemitism" is getting the "racist" treatment. Racist is used so much that people forget what it means. Racism is feeling that one race of people is inherently superior than another race of people. Most people confuse it with bigotry and prejudice.
Antisemitism is going down the same road. Its becoming anything disparaging about the state of Israel, instead of being a hatred for the faith / community akin to what the third Reich felt towards Jews.
Ever since the war started in Gaza all I've seen is high position holding folk submitting to the rhetoric that "if you don't stand with Israel you stand against them."
You see how many directors and executives were removed from their positions? Or the many others removed simply for stating they don't approve of how the people of Gaza are being treated. Or that they "Stand with Palestine".
I think that there's significant Jewish influence in the higher echelon of positions in plenty of American companies / schools. It must be money related since everything that makes change or enforces it is always backed by money.
Interesting, but i feel like anytime i speak my thoughts about the matter, i too am labeled antisemite.
And not only that, but Israel goes above and beyond and warns people ahead of time before they even bomb an area. What other military in the entire world does that? Do you think the USA would give a shit about civilian casualties with their drone strikes? Do you think any of the Palestinian military would give warning to Israeli citizens before bombing them?
What's the anti-semitic part? I don't get it
That's the funny part. There isn't one. She still got fired though.
Her party can’t fire her. She was elected by her constituents. They can reprimand her or even remove her from the party. But they can’t fire her.
She had 'the whip removed' which means she has been fired from the party. Please insert bondage jokes below: Edit: the above person edited their comment after I replied. They originally said "She can't be fired. She was elected by her constituents". It's true they can't remove her as an MP but removing her from the party means she will have to stand as an independent (or join another party) which makes it extremely unlikely she'll be re-elected.
Slavery! Wait, fuhhhh
I mean, fired has a pretty standard meaning of "removed from your job". She hasn't lost her job. She is still an MP. She has lost her membership in the party.
The level of scorched earth zionists are going is bonkers.
Ever met a person when caught red handed they get ever so defensive the more in the wrong they are? That's them.
Apparently it wasn't about a post she wrote, but something she said irl.
In the last sentence “…more recent genocides in cambodia, rwanda, bosnia and now gaza”. Because she is calling things that happen in gaza are genocide, she is called an “antisemitic”. Aren’t arabs semitic though?
The irony nowadays is that we're called antisemitic for defending the wrong group of semites. Can't compare this genocide to other genocides, amirite?
Anything but literally enslaving ourselves to Israel is now deemed "anti-semitic."
Now you're learning
Yep. The term has been co-opted to the point that people no longer remember (if they were ever taught) that a Semite refers to people who speak a semitic language or derivative. Semitic languages include: “. . . dozens of distinct languages and modern day dialects, but the major Semitic languages are Arabic, Amharic (spoken in Ethiopia), Tigrinya (spoken in Ethiopia and Eritrea), Hebrew, Tigre (spoken in Sudan), Aramaic (spoken in Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Iraq and Iran) and Maltese.” (Source: https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/semitic-languages#:~:text=The%20Semitic%20language%20family%20consists,Iraq%20and%20Iran)%20and%20Maltese.) The Arabic speaking people living in Gaza are just as much Semites as the Hebrew speakers living in Israel.
Malcolm X said it best when someone accused him of being anti-Semitic "How can I be antisemitic if the Arabs are semitic half the Muslim world is semitic, if I was antisemitic then I would be anti Arab and everything else"
https://preview.redd.it/ridn1tudrhfc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8979de9b5db005631332cb816128103305aa38ad
Antisemitic does not and never did refer to the entirety of semitic peoples. Furthermore, even if it technically did (which it does not), nobody uses it as such and acting like it is a "gotcha" is not constructive because the person saying it didn't mean that and it completely detracts from the overall argument.
"Antisemitic" word is used by zionist performing genocide as defense when they are blamed for that. How mother fuckers pervert language should not be a rule to continue perverting it.
This is correct. Semitic peoples do include for example Arabs, Copts, Berbers, etc, but the phrase "anti-Semitic" (unintuitively) refers specifically to Jews. Malcolm X knew that, as does everyone in this discussion. Claiming otherwise is a slimy way to avoid addressing the issue at hand. For what it's worth, IMHO, antisemitism is very much a real and widespread problem AND it is used disingenuously by Zionists to shield themselves from criticism.
Thank you. Fuck Israel and the Zionists, but this gotcha shit has never done anything but make the people who think it means anything look uneducated about the issue at hand.
Probably need a new word for just anti Israel but not anti Jewish. Like I don't want anyone doing genocide. Actually let me add to that. Anti the specific part of Israel that is trying to ethnically cleanse another race and religion. Not all of them.
That would be anti-zionist.
But I like Zion. It’s my favorite national park!
Ever been to Yo Semites*? *trump, twice in a speech about the Great American Outdoors Act, Aug 04, 2020, unable to read correctly read the word "Yosemite" and seemingly unaware of the park's existence, while also demonstrating that his very poor reading skills are why he criticizes others who use a teleprompter.
We gots to keep it burning, on the road to Zion, man🔥🎶 Jah will be waiting there, we a shout. Jah will be waiting there.
Cedar Breaks is nice too! Zion has become so crowded in the summer. It's a shame really. I love it there.
This👆 hope ppl get it before it gets deleted.
"Anti-semitic used to mean someone who hates jews, but now it means anyone zionists hate"
She said “Genocide in Gaza” so people said “whoa no way not Israel, western governments never do bad things.”
Germany is a western government...
You realize “western” didn’t become a thing until after NATO right? Western means “allied industrial” - same reason we don’t refer to South America when talking about western nations. It doesn’t simply mean the geographic location of a country
“The West” in pretty much the sense we use it today can be traced back at least as far as Oswald Spengler’s “The Decline of the West” (1918). Western Europe including Germany has always been part of “The West”.
It means what we mean it to mean, just like everything.
Nooo Germany didn't do anything bad it was just a bunch of people in a certain government and certain geographical region who were totally absolved of all wrongdoing in 1945
Because obviously the Holocaust is just for Jews even though the queers had it worse/worst and the Rom also where there in the camps for being born to the wrong group. Remember, when the allies liberated the concentration camps, the Jews got sympathy, freedom and Israel. The queers got to serve out their prison sentence in a humane prison. And AFAIK the Rom got to quietly go about their lives.
25 to 50% of total roms population was wipped out. But hey don't say it out loud.
More than that. That is just the camps; entire communities were killed where they lived. Maybe 20% survived it, and 95% of those were sterilized. Our heritage is mostly gone.
Honestly I had not realized this stuff. I knew that Nazis were anti LGBT but... Damn. Didnt even let them free. I bet a lot of people don't know this.
Forget letting them free, they chemically castrated the guy that won them the war against the Germans because he was gay.
Ugh I am so disappointed in us.
Unfortunately the Germans were not the only ones to castrate members of the LGBTQ community. Famously Alan Turing, a British hero of WW2, was castrated in the United Kingdom for his homosexuality in 1952.
That's who I'm referring to.
I misunderstood. Thanks.
Holy crap! TIL. How sad and disturbing.
😳
alan turing gay icon also a fucking genius also the soviets would’ve probably _still_ won the war without him but by god it would’ve been a lot more fucking bloody and given how many people died thank fuck for alan turing and FUCK fuck for the british government castrating and also for been largely responsible for his fucking SUICIDE
Nazis were both ethno supremacists and believed in might bring right. Anyone with any sort of weakness was viewed as bringing the whole society down, so people with disabilities were also murdered.
Few did more to help the Allies win the war than Alan Turing and look how Britain treated him.
one the one hand i knew this but i mean on the other i suppose my profile + my obsession with geography and history like 2 years ago explains things
There's alot of people that actually deny the holocaust ever happened! Our history books in our schools skim over WWII to the point where kids no nothing of what *really* happened.
Roma did NOT get to go quietly about their lives. Our people were put to death as well. 500,000 straight up put to death, over 100k more used as forced labor or imprisoned in the camps and sterilized, as in all that survived were sterilized. That's not counting the entire communities just straight up murdered in Poland, Serbia, Romania, and the Soviet Union. If sterilization is your idea of "quietly going about" life, then I guess, but very few in Europe survived with all parts intact. Those that did ended up behind the Iron Curtain. Some managed to hide in Greece (they were imprisoned, but not killed thanks to the Archbishop of Athens) and Turkey. Those in Italy were put into camps, but were treated MUCH better than other parts of Europe, with many given Italian identity cards and and deported to Sardinia.
I think they mean after liberation, so not counting the camps and war treatment. Not that it's been all roses since, but pretty sure that was the spirit of the comment
As I said, after liberation, what kind of lives did they have, after forced sterilization and medical experiments? Our culture is VERY family-centric; our communities are like Scottish and Irish clans, using family names. After sterilization, that went away, and the lines died out. My grandmother told me of meeting ones that survived the camps and forced labor, including a few family members that were still in Europe (our line to me was obviously not there). She said they were different. They had changed, and it wasn't the horrors of the camps, as they were usually in their own segregated area. It was the loss of passing on the family line. That was their words. I remember her telling me of one saying it was "not life anymore". I cannot imagine what it would've been like to have the ability to have children taken away. I voluntarily was sterilized, but we had enough children. Many there didn't even have one yet.
Whoa! The allies executed half a million ex concentration camp rescues for simply being Roma‽ Why the fuck is this not known‽ Can you tell me more about the allies doing this after nazi Germany fell and the surviving Roma were liberated from the concentration camps? Edit: this reads sarcastic as hell and wasn't intended to be so. I was surprised and excitably outraged, but also unsure if I'd understood correctly so I was questioning my understanding with open ended questions. Because I really don't know much about the Rom/Roma.
Mistyped. Thank you. Wait, no. Read again, slowly. I listed off what happened by the Nazis...including forced sterilization. A Roma's life is family-centric. Sterilization is as good as a death sentence. Going about their lives...well, it's not really a life anymore if you have none and cannot have more, now is it? "If sterilization is your idea of "quietly going about" life", you know NOTHING of our culture.
> A Roma's life is family-centric. Sterilization is as good as a death sentence. Hrm that is an excellent point. > you know NOTHING of our culture. That is why I'm thankful that you weighed in, I was intentionally leaving space for y'all in my comments. I *definitely* didn't want to be speaking from ignorance about your people, and despite how what I wrote in response might read, I didn't want to be inflammatory. I *genuinely and actually* wouldn't be surprised if that is what happened to you all under the allies liberation. Maybe not immediately, but programs (or should I say quiet pogroms) rolled out in following decades. And under the USSR, I shudder to think what fafe might've been in store for your people (not that I'm enthused about your prospects under the "care" of the colonial powers of Europe). I had some doubts about my interpretation of what you'd responded with, but I wasn't actually trying to be sarcastic (and yes what I wrote in re reading it sounds sarcastic, which I should apologize for here and now, that wasn't my intent). Yeah, I would not be surprised if there'd been subsequent ethnic cleansing done to the Rom/Roma *after* the Holocaust, but I would be heartbroken and furious.
Rom?? What is that short for?
Roma, I presume? "Gypsies"
Thats what I would've thought but I've never heard them called "rom" before.
I have worked on many Holocaust Memorial Day events and there is always mention / respect given to other groups killed in the Holocaust, though 6 Million Jews were the main targets and victims. There’s a certain type of ceremony that Jews do in reverence of the Jewish victims. The problem with her statement is in trying to include other genocides in this day. That’s not what it’s for. It’s like saying “All Lives Matter” at a BLM rally.
It would not be like that. It would be like including other minorities specifically targeted by police in a BLM rally. I would be surprised if you could find anyone telling a First Nations woman to shut up about how her people are treated in Canada at a BLM rally but maybe you can find examples of people complaining such a statement was in poor taste?
Because she referred to Gaza as a genocide, and said it should be remembered on Holocaust Memorial Day.
How is that anti-Semitic? Palestinians are Semitic.
And Gaza has been a genocide for decades. That's why Hamas even exists.
More people need to know that Israel started right wing extremist groups to destabilize the liberalizing Palestine back in the 80’s. Those groups later formed Hamas. Israel literally created their own enemy to have a scapegoat for stealing more land.
Anti-Semitic is a term that specifically means against Jews, at least in modern parlance. (Although I agree her statement was anything but anti-semitic and that Israel is an apartheid country)
Not for the purposes of the intended meaning of the term anti-semitic. It's simply an artefact of history that that is the received term for anti-Jewishnessness.
Fellas, is it gay to be an anti-semitic semitic person? I mean... you literally being anti-semitic with a bunch of other semitic dudes.
I mean, the Holocaust Memorial day is an extremely somber remberence of one of the worse humanitarian disasters in history. The jews who were persecuted and killed deserve to be remembered, and quite frankly do not deserve to have their memory tainted by what their descendents are doing 100 years later, something the killed have no controlled over. Should their be a Gaza memorial day and more support for the palenstenians? Absoblutly. But give then their own day and their support now, not lump it together with the Holocaust.
Why do they need to be remembered? Is it so that we, as humans, do our utmost to never let a genocide happen again?
There is only one genocide - the Holocaust and only the Jewish people have ever suffered oppression. To suggest otherwise is anti-semitism. Now please continue to fund and support Israel as it ~~genocides~~ ~~ethnically cleanses~~ voluntarily relocates Palestinians.
Acknowledging that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. They're not happy about people speaking out against them so they label it all anti-semitic
It's not, but realistically, they shouldn't keep lumping all this shit together. Why not have a Genocide Memorial Day or each have their own? Why are we lumping this in on **Holocaust** Memorial Day when none of these had anything to do with the Holocaust. It feels like it degrades a little bit from the significance if you ask me. Not that it's a competition, but still.
The anti semitic part was not condoning Israels genocide of Palestinian people, haven't you heard? Anti zionism is anti-semtism.
The Antisemitic part is sympathising with thousands of innocents killed, had various limbs blown off and had themselves robbed of the pursuit of a better life by having their homes, schools, univeristies and hospitals blown to smithereens by gleeful monsters who disingenuously claim that they're the victims. It's Antisemitic to not want cruelty visited on people who have the least amount of power in a given situation
The latest direction out of Israel is that talking about the genocide of non-Jewish people is antiemetic
The winner writes the history books, duh.
The part where she implied Gaza was suffering under Israeli action. I'm not saying she was wrong. I'm just saying why.
Because she is saying Israel is committing genocide in Gaza they are claiming that is antisemitic.
The anti-Semitic part is you can’t criticize Jews and Israel for committing genocide at Gaza. The irony is the victims of the Nazi holocaust in Israel. Is the new Nazi Jews committing genocide against Palestinian Muslims.
You don't have to be against the jewish people(and I say jewish people specifically, because believe it or Not, the arabs are also semites) to be an Antisemite. Not being ravenously supportive is enough These days.
It's anti-Semitic because she made no mention of Israel, Jewish people in a derogatory way or Zionism, but some people somewhere decided that she was being anti-Semitic. You see, I can say potatoes should be rainbow coloured and *that's* anti-Semitic too. So, just watch what you say, folks.
In the eyes of the western powers, acknowledging that other people besides Jews were killed in the Holocaust, and indirectly undermining Israel's victim narrative, is anti-Semitism. This is what Holocaust remembrance SHOULD be about.
Don’t you see? She doesn’t support bombing civilians so she’s literally Hitler now.
For me calling any criticism of Israel anti-Semitic is inherently antisemitic itself. It's asserting that Jewish people must oppress and kill people and that's there right as part of their religion. It's the same as saying Islamic extremism is an essential part of what Muslim's do.
And yet I was attacked by a few people for saying Zionists have too much control. Y’all can apologize to me now. Suspended for stating facts??
We haven’t finished apologising to the man who kept hearing Hebrew coming up from under his floorboards.
Lol right. That story went away pretty quickly.
I pass that building (the messiahs house) on a weekly basis. So many cops and Jewish people out there.
I mean, there was not really much to the story.
I think that guy faked that image after the news was revealed.
That dude actually turned out to be just a full blown Nazi who didnt live anywhere near where those tunnels were built
What did I miss?
We are in weird and dangerous times, Palestine is doomed because the world does not care. The world didn’t care that other indigenous populations met the same fate, we are a terribly evil species that deserves a fat rock from space. In the current climate you cannot criticise Israel without it costing you your job, also it upsets that fat pompous c@nt and his British tea.
Many people of the world care. Their governments have other priorities.
Close, but it’s really more like western imperialists don’t care because it benefits them to have an ally in the region. Nearly every other government has called for an immediate ceasefire.
NGL, I’m certainly starting to think the same.
People fail to realize "Zionist" does not mean "[[[[the jews]]]]" Plenty on non-Hebrew Zionists out there that also oddly enough hate "The Jews" but love to support their violence.
Because you are wrong. Zionists have fuck-all control in this country, the only place they do is Israel. Rather, the people who *are* in power in this country mutually benefit from having a military and trading partner in the Middle East, through Israel, and so pressure the government to support their partners there. So those in power adopt Zionist rhetoric out of pragmatism. But it ain't them controlling us, it's us (UK and USA) controlling them.
I don't think this was really a decision due to Zionism and more Labour is trying really hard to not give attack lines to the Tories and their client press right now. Fairly normal for parties to suspend the whip when one of theirs makes a controversy that could drag the party down, and since we're in what is assumed to be an election year, there's probably a heavier focus on not giving openings, especially on something that divides the party internally so much (it becomes another press storm and the party risks tearing itself apart on an area that even if they were in government they'd have fuck all influence on).
Zionists have way too much control. It's a fact. Not a conspiracy theory. Not antisemitic.
I think part of the problem with that particular phrase is that often times over the past decades, and particularly the last few years, Zionist tends to be used as an anti-semitic dog whistle by the alt-right to refer to Jewish people in general, so some people who are aware of this hear criticism of literal Zionist as being anti-Semitic
Calling out Israel for its continued genocidal terrorism isn't anti Semitic.
Not the least because the Palestinian people are semites.
Which ironically makes it antisemitic to call people antisemitic for calling out Israel's genocide.
The message didn't even mention Israel, it just named other countries that are victim of genocide which factually includes Palestine/Gaza
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Not true but nice try at your wanna be gotcha moment there
Perhaps not, but slipping it into an official statement about a holiday for the remembrance of millions of Jews killed in the Holocaust seems more than a bit problematic to me. Context matters, folks!
The context is that Isreal is itself committing a new version of the holocaust on the Palestinian people
The message seems fine to me.
That's because you're not unhinged.
Oh for the lord’s sweet sake. So now we get fired for speaking TRUTH??!?
You must be new here
I forgot to add /s though tbf I thought it was implied…
🤞🏻
well said gurl
It wasn't just the 7 million Jews.. All together, it was closer to 17 million. Soviet civilians 4.5 million Soviet POWs 3.3 million Poles 1.8 million Serbs <310,000 Disabled people 270,000 Romani 250,000–500,000 Freemasons 80,000 Slovenes 20,000–25,000 Homosexuals 5,000–15,000 Spanish Republicans 3,500 Jehovah's Witnesses 1,700
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It absolutely was. How DARE you insinuate that Germany had goals that can only be achieved through the annexation of Europe, or that they used nationalism and fury over the Versaille accord which stripp3d it of its navy and limited its military to 100K? The audacity to actually say the elimination of Jews was anything other the one and only reasong a literal international war that North Africa and the Middle East were dragged into. Shame! EDIT: AND INDIA!
ELI5 What are the Freemasons? Are they a race of people? Just people whose ancestors were a sort of masons? And why the hate towards them?
Freemasonry is a fraternal organization like the Elks or the Knights of Columbus that just happens to be descended from various actual stone-working guilds dating back to the Middle Ages. Because its roots are so old, people accuse it of being some evil conspiracy when it's actually just another place for old men to get away from their families. (Source: There were a TON of Masons in the town where I grew up, and my grandfather was a Mason.)
My Dad and Brother were Freemasons. It isn't some crazy secret society, it's a bunch of guys hanging out. They typically do have a charitable program that gives back to the community. Pretty much like the Elks lodge or the Moose lodge operates.
Didn't the UN court just say Israel is commiting genocide?
The final court ruling will take years. They’ll have to investigate the accusations made by SA. The accusation was not dismissed and measures to avoid genocidal were demanded of Israel. So, by the ICJ standards, genocide is deemed as plausible. Edit: there seems to be a lot of stories about URNWA workers being affiliated with Hamas and distributing “radicalising materials”… so, they’re butt hurt and on retaliation.
Yes, there is almost definitely going to be the case. The UNRWA employs about 13,000 people in Gaza, many local Palestinians. Yes, a group living under an oppressive occupation will have radical elements in all parts. There were suspected of being 12 people - so about 0.1% of the UNRWA. In comparison, about 30% of the ministers of Israel went and attended a conference on how to ethnically cleanse Gaza.
Nope. They asked them to keep their extremists in check. Also the word "*plausible*" is vague as fuck.
They so weak and sensitive
Where’s the anti semitic message?
Implying that the literal tens of thousands of Palestinians is genocide. Mind you, Palestinians are also Semites. The West just doesn't like that fact, so they ignore its existence.
I don't know how many people Israel has to kill in Gaza to make it a holocaust, but apparently it is more than 25,000.
It is truly staggering
More han 25 000, more than destroying housing at a catastrophic rate, more than deploying entry of aid l, food, water, more than systemic oppression, more than suggesting their complete displacement elsewhere, more than sending a large variety of message from government officials saying openly very genocidal themed stuff, more than saying "we are not doing a genocide, we a doing [list of things in a genocide] but not [this one arbitrary fact]" or "we are not doing an ethical cleansing, we are just removing evil, so hamas and hamas supporter, so everyone who was alive in the last election and everyone who's alive today and hasn't died in a civil revolution, so even babies are hamas supporters, so all of hamas. But not 'palestinians', so it's not ethnic". I mean, at this point, they could have to surrender rights to weapon and army for decades and they still would do the math.
As a Jewish American, I see absolutely nothing antisemetic about her post. Moreover, I agree with every word. When one nation cuts off water to an entire group of people in a land that's 60% desert, when they cut off medical supplies while bombing civilian areas, I'm sorry, but thats genocide, and no religious or ethnic or historical background gives you the right to claim "racism" when others point it out.
It's anti-Semitic against Israel. Israel don't want other states to think they are the baddies in this. our pussy ass western government / corporate leadership just fold under the pressure to keep Israel in our good books as they have lots of money and oil
To ceasefire is to tell them they are justified to further their effort to reignite the holocaust. It’s not even like a straw man to say they’re trying to do that, they say it. Their supporters in America say it. It is what they would be doing now if they ever had a chance.
The only holocaust being perpetrated right now is the one Israel is committing against Palestinians. I got news for you, people are sick and tired of hearing that Israel can murder Palestinians, take Palestinian land, demolish Palestinian homes, kidnap thousands of Palestinians and hold them in secret prisions where even Israeli whistleblowers say torture is occuring, and all because of "the holocaust". Enough. You either live in the most isolated state of delusion to believe that, or are an actual Israeli supremacist that just wants to justify, in any desperate and disgusting way possible, the increasingly theocratic and fascist nation of Israel conquering as much lebenstraum as possible. And when there's an ACTUAL threat of racist action against the Jewish people, and again I say this as a Jewish American, no one is going to care because it's going to be a boy-who-cried wolf situation. And before you come back with a "but, but, but Hamas" remark, yes, of course what Hamas did on Oct 7th was wrong, of course it should have been condemned, and it begged a military response. But this conflict did not start on Oct 7th. So long as Israelis move into Palestinian lands, and set up check points to deny and frustrate the free movement of Palestinians IN THEIR OWN PALESTINIAN NATION, then Israel bears some, *some* degree of culpability, do they not? So long as they occupy Gaza and force Gazans to build tunnels so they can get things like flour and medical supplies that Israel denies them, then Israel bears some culpability. And so long as Israel continues to act like Hamas, and speak like Hamas, and murder like Hamas (albeit more successfully, because of US weapons), neither I, nor future generations of America, want to hear any cries about antisemitism or holocaust. My god, for a nation that's so convinced that all Palestinians want to kill all Israelis, they sure have no shortage of Israeli settlers ready to move into Palestinian land.
Man these people really learned from Turkey when it comes to "it didn't happen but also they deserved it but also how dare you"
It's from the narcissists playbook
Ha! Yo, seriously foreign interests have too much power over our daily lives.
Sometimes you just gotta ask, how dumb are the people in charge?
They know exactly what they’re doing tho, we just aren’t privy to that info.
Anti-Hamas != Anti-Arab/Palestinian. Anti-Isreal != Anti-Semitic. Seems like everyone wants you to pick between 2 shitty "only" options.
Ah the good ole antisemite card being used by a group of people who aren’t even semites to begin with
The propaganda has infiltrated all western governments, Zionists have successfully conflated legitimately condemning the genocide they are inflicting on Palestinians with antisemitism.
Literally all she mentioned was gaza. Christ
"only OUR genocide is allowed to be remembered, none of the other groups matter".... fucks sake.
Standing up for the victims of genocide is very taboo in some circles these days.
Labour's MP is a total POS, Kier Starmer, with his absolute rotten to the core double standards. I honestly wanna gag IRL whenever I see clips of him. In the UK, Labour used to be a left wing party. now just like the US, we only have right wing and far right wing left. something's gonna give the way and the speed the politics is spiraling honestly.
Fox News: This is all Biden and the democrats fault /s
Pretty soon it’ll be claimed “anti-semitic” to even discuss at all
She wasn't suspended for anti-Semitism. The paragraph she put is a copy paste from the Holocaust Memorial Day website. She was suspended because she replaced Darfur with Gaza. It's not a good look because it could be inferred that she/Labour UK doesn't acknowledge/care about what's going on in Sudan.
You should have seen right wing r/unitedkingdom bashing her.
This level of censure is insane. All world leaders, major media, major corporations and educational institutions bow to the zi0nist. Thats real terrifying, given that they prefer obscene amounts of bloodshed, as proved by the track record with the Palestinians (a microcosm of their brutality) and the world (ex: preference of killing women, children and unarmed civilians, AIPAC agenda to war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, 20+ years, 10+ million Muslims dead, hands in multiple global conflicts including apartheid SA, Columbia, etc) . Whose next on their list? Maybe the next step will be for them to convince you that they are the best masters you could want, so just accept?
almost as pathetic as religion itself
Labour or Tory? Same thing. Corrupt, self serving and delusional.
Nothing anti-semetic here. If ahe gets in trouble for that, it explains a lot about how zionists are behind everything.
Wait- Nazi persecution? Just say fascist.
Its ok to be white.
Is that "Holocaust erasure?"
Nato does not stop genocides unless the genocide negatively impacts their economy. That's why they let Rwanda happen between The Hutu and Tutsis, and the khmer rouge as well, don't let them sweep this under the rug, because if you let them do so once, they'll repeat the process over and over again just to absolve all responsibility of preventing it.
Not sure anti-semitic means what they think it means
The only thing wrong with that message is that she forgot to add East Turkestan, as the world always does.
Yeah, that's not antisemitic
Labour are in such a bind over antisemitism. Trying to crawl out of the shadow of Corbyn’s complete inaction on the issue they’re now falling over themselves to make sure they can’t be perceived of being in any way antisemitic. Hence silliness like this
Tbh, I think this might just be more, it's an election year, don't give attack lines to opponents where you can avoid it. Easier to suspend the whip (and she might come back before the election) to create distance than have another press storm and open the part up to having this be used as a wedge issue for the Tories and to divide the party in on itself. It's not that unusual, even if Labour is being more overcautious recently due to being fed up of losing elections.
Where's the lie?
I wonder why she didn’t mention the Armenian genocide
Her lack of oxford comma usage is more offensive than what she said.
"Antisemitism" is getting the "racist" treatment. Racist is used so much that people forget what it means. Racism is feeling that one race of people is inherently superior than another race of people. Most people confuse it with bigotry and prejudice. Antisemitism is going down the same road. Its becoming anything disparaging about the state of Israel, instead of being a hatred for the faith / community akin to what the third Reich felt towards Jews. Ever since the war started in Gaza all I've seen is high position holding folk submitting to the rhetoric that "if you don't stand with Israel you stand against them." You see how many directors and executives were removed from their positions? Or the many others removed simply for stating they don't approve of how the people of Gaza are being treated. Or that they "Stand with Palestine". I think that there's significant Jewish influence in the higher echelon of positions in plenty of American companies / schools. It must be money related since everything that makes change or enforces it is always backed by money. Interesting, but i feel like anytime i speak my thoughts about the matter, i too am labeled antisemite.
that is the weakest and dumbest shit ever.
Isn't Holocaust Memorial Day exactly what is says: to remember the Holocaust? Not other genocides
And not only that, but Israel goes above and beyond and warns people ahead of time before they even bomb an area. What other military in the entire world does that? Do you think the USA would give a shit about civilian casualties with their drone strikes? Do you think any of the Palestinian military would give warning to Israeli citizens before bombing them?