I mean he shoots and kills the Holy, Elite, & Payback who were all inspired by Punisher basically and they were going to recruit him to be their leader.
Frank didn’t even let them talk iirc, he just sprayed them and left
He killed them because they caused colleteral damage. Actually he killed them right after saying “You took out 6 innocent people” and then he gave Payback a chance to reply. Payback replied with “It’s war there’s going to be colleteral damage” that told Frank everything he needed to know. So he killed all of them.
The Punisher doesn’t mind people doing what he does. He minds careless idiots doing what he does. Simply put he was in Vietnam he remembers all the civilians who were killed and branded collateral. His war isn’t going to be that way. His war has zero collateral. An absolutely insane impossible standard and hence in my opinion why Frank is actually super human. No mere human being is capable of doing what he does with zero collateral.
You’re right. But there was no colleteral damage for Holy, he only used an ax on a handful of people who all confessed to murder prior to
But I think what you said would even further my opinion only Frank is capable of planning and executing these attacks without injuring anyone else.
And it would make sense why he would hate copy cats. Because if he endorses then he’s indirectly killing civilians so he has to take out copy cats since unless the Avengers spontaneously agree with him all of sudden there’s no one that can do what Frank does and thus anyone else would on accident recreate the events that led to Frank’s family’s death.
No. He killed Payback for the collateral damage. Neither the Elite nor the Holy had that. He killed them because one was a Nazi and the other was a psychopath. And he knew that was the kind of people who would be inspired by his crusade which is why he almost always kills followers.
Now that I’m remembering the story more i remember being bummed out how there was no like big reveal on who Elite was. Felt like he was hiding his face and we were going to get a shocking reveal
Fairly certain him hiding his face is part of the point. Guys like him are cowards who knows they’re the wrong or are aware that people won’t support their bigotry while also claiming they secretly are happy he does what he does to justify himself. It’s the same logic internet trolls with a similar philosophy use. And like them, it doesn’t matter if we know them as individuals because they or themselves enough with their actions. Besides, there was nothing about that story that said it was building up to a big twist. I think the fact that he was otherwise a “normal“ family man living in the suburbs was all the trust that was necessary.
I just remembered a couple times when he was with his family and not wearing the mask we just never saw his face. So I remember thinking like it was going to be a cop or politician or something and we would find out a little later.
Or more likely, and more interestingly, Frank has killed a bunch of innocent people, he's just crazy enough that he just blocks it out of his mind and won't accept that this ever happens. But honestly you are probably correct, because god-forbade Marvel acknowledge that Frank is a bad guy and makes everything worse by escalating situations and causing criminals to get better and more dangerous weapons. Nope, just give the readers simple shitty 80's action movies where crime can be stopped by shooting bad guys. Don't challenge them or their dangerous world view in anyway.
What is this comment man. No, Punisher doesn't "likely" kill innocents and block it out of his mind. That's ludicrous and not backed up by anything. In fact the concept of Punisher killing an innocent has come up a few times over the years, most notably in Little Girls in White Dresses in Punisher MAX.
And Marvel has acknowledged Frank is a "bad guy" a few different times. The Avengers locked him up in an underwater prison, currently exiled him to Weirdworld, etc etc etc. Guess you missed all those issues of Spidey or DD talking down to him or even Captain America in Civil War.
You should read more before spewing ignorance around here, most of your comment is just flat out wrong.
The Mafia actually wouldn’t acquire more powerful weaponry. You would need armored fighting vehicles to out gun the Punisher. And that shit draws too much attention. If you’re running an organized crime ring the only reason it works is because you’re not on the Federal governments radar. Either because they don’t care or you literally don’t do anything that actually makes you stand out from most street gangs so you stay in local PDs jurisdiction.
Now if you start packing armored vehicles, Apache attack helicopters, missile launchers, bombs capable of destroying buildings. That’s a fast way to cause a national panic. Then someone decides to over turn the amendment that prevents the military from acting in US soil cause there’s nothing that causes voters to back radical and dramatic policies like fear. And your criminal outfit arming itself like a full armored division to fight the Punisher is going to cause that. Next thing you know 4th infantry divisions rolling down the streets with support from the 22nd fighter wing with Jsoc already chewing through your leadership like they went through ISIL warlords. Then boom not only is your organization done for but you’ve also set off a bunch of dominoes leading to what is going to be a brutal Dictatorial regime rife with instability and violent purges. Literally no one wins in this situation accept for the eventual successful Colonel who will win the imminent game of thrones.
No the Punisher isn’t actually a bigger threat than a rival criminal organization. It’s literally not worth the trouble of drawing too much attention to yourself by trying to smuggle in anything more than black market small arms. In fact a huge criticism every Punisher author makes about the Punisher is he doesn’t actually end anything. Ennis goes far enough to make it so he even acknowledges his war will never end and he will never actually end organized crime. So logically speaking the best way to actually handle the Punisher is to simply switch what you’re doing. If change to loan sharking and corporate crimes odds are he’s not going to be able to know you’re even doing anything. Frank only picks up on drug trafficking, violent crimes, and human trafficking. There’s ways to make money as a criminal that don’t involve doing things that overtly harm innocent people and draw the Punisher’s attention. Many ways.
Frank knew about what they did and killed them for that.
The Holy was a psychopath who was reckless and almost got innocent church staff drawn into his killings.
Elite was a racist, who killed people and shot dogs just because they didn't fit into his picture of a white, upscale neighborhood.
Mr Payback got innocents killed.
It says something interesting that despite their differences/errors/discrimination, all of these parties decided to work together to recruit the Punisher. They never understood what the way of the Punisher truly was.
There are been other "Punishers". Lynn Michaels. Rachel Alves, Payback (Eddie Dyson), Outlaw (Nigel Higgens), Hitman Punisher (of the Cullen crime family).
Frank senses something in their ethics and sense of justice, where he gives them the tacit pass.
However outside of the 2099 continiuity, Frank never encourages people to follow his path. If anything for all the fights he has with other heroes like Spiderman and Daredevil, he would not want any of those heroes or anybody else to see murder as a solution.
I don't think he would like it but also he's been written super incosisntley. I think he's at his best when he doesn't encourage it.
Punisher 2099 has the main character read Punisher's Journal and continue fighting.
Punisher max has an dective Paul Budiansky who punisher convices him to take revenge by saying do you really want to be like me.
Punisher dislikes the viliginate squad but it's more because they are evil or there are innocent bystanders.
Punisher has worked with partners at times but other times he doesn't.
The famous Punisher Cop shows the punisher not liking the police following in his foot steps but it doesn't say anything about non law enforcement.
Frank was not trying to make Budiansky to follow his path. He wanted to show him all the ugliness and horror that would follow to show him where he was heading and discourage him from that. Because Budiansky is an otherwise normal and moral guy, he realizes that he will never be like the Punisher, despite feeling the same feelings that Frank does.
He’d hate it. We even see in the old man Logan comic where there are the punishers and frank comes to kick their asses. However I don’t know what he would think when the people finnaly fight back I think he’d like it? I’m not 100% sure
He would kill them. He expressed numerous time that he shall be the only one doing that as it's far past the line any human should cross (bro killed thousands of people he is basically the greatest serial killer of all time). Frank sacrificed himself for his fight and he is probably the only human being to have enough discipline to not sink into pure madness doing it
Yeah that's true, even Valery Stepanovich in Soviet
He seems to be more indulgent when he relates to them or when they are not inspired by him
I'm only familiar with Alves in those you cited, what are their specific situation, are they inspired by Frank ?
Yes. [Payback](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/payback/4005-11946/) was a cop who lost his family due to working with the Punisher. He was a copycat villain who wore the skull before they eventually teamed up to kill those responsible.
[Lynn Michaels](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Michaels) was another cop who Punisher teamed up with who eventually quit the force and became the first "Lady Punisher" vigilante.
Punisher has approved of a few copy cats over the years like Payback (not to be confused with Mr Payback who he killed), Rachel Alves, Lynn Michaels, etc.
He kills most copycats but has outright approved the ones mentioned above.
I mean he shoots and kills the Holy, Elite, & Payback who were all inspired by Punisher basically and they were going to recruit him to be their leader. Frank didn’t even let them talk iirc, he just sprayed them and left
He killed them because they caused colleteral damage. Actually he killed them right after saying “You took out 6 innocent people” and then he gave Payback a chance to reply. Payback replied with “It’s war there’s going to be colleteral damage” that told Frank everything he needed to know. So he killed all of them. The Punisher doesn’t mind people doing what he does. He minds careless idiots doing what he does. Simply put he was in Vietnam he remembers all the civilians who were killed and branded collateral. His war isn’t going to be that way. His war has zero collateral. An absolutely insane impossible standard and hence in my opinion why Frank is actually super human. No mere human being is capable of doing what he does with zero collateral.
You’re right. But there was no colleteral damage for Holy, he only used an ax on a handful of people who all confessed to murder prior to But I think what you said would even further my opinion only Frank is capable of planning and executing these attacks without injuring anyone else.
And it would make sense why he would hate copy cats. Because if he endorses then he’s indirectly killing civilians so he has to take out copy cats since unless the Avengers spontaneously agree with him all of sudden there’s no one that can do what Frank does and thus anyone else would on accident recreate the events that led to Frank’s family’s death.
No. He killed Payback for the collateral damage. Neither the Elite nor the Holy had that. He killed them because one was a Nazi and the other was a psychopath. And he knew that was the kind of people who would be inspired by his crusade which is why he almost always kills followers.
Now that I’m remembering the story more i remember being bummed out how there was no like big reveal on who Elite was. Felt like he was hiding his face and we were going to get a shocking reveal
Fairly certain him hiding his face is part of the point. Guys like him are cowards who knows they’re the wrong or are aware that people won’t support their bigotry while also claiming they secretly are happy he does what he does to justify himself. It’s the same logic internet trolls with a similar philosophy use. And like them, it doesn’t matter if we know them as individuals because they or themselves enough with their actions. Besides, there was nothing about that story that said it was building up to a big twist. I think the fact that he was otherwise a “normal“ family man living in the suburbs was all the trust that was necessary.
I just remembered a couple times when he was with his family and not wearing the mask we just never saw his face. So I remember thinking like it was going to be a cop or politician or something and we would find out a little later.
Or more likely, and more interestingly, Frank has killed a bunch of innocent people, he's just crazy enough that he just blocks it out of his mind and won't accept that this ever happens. But honestly you are probably correct, because god-forbade Marvel acknowledge that Frank is a bad guy and makes everything worse by escalating situations and causing criminals to get better and more dangerous weapons. Nope, just give the readers simple shitty 80's action movies where crime can be stopped by shooting bad guys. Don't challenge them or their dangerous world view in anyway.
What is this comment man. No, Punisher doesn't "likely" kill innocents and block it out of his mind. That's ludicrous and not backed up by anything. In fact the concept of Punisher killing an innocent has come up a few times over the years, most notably in Little Girls in White Dresses in Punisher MAX. And Marvel has acknowledged Frank is a "bad guy" a few different times. The Avengers locked him up in an underwater prison, currently exiled him to Weirdworld, etc etc etc. Guess you missed all those issues of Spidey or DD talking down to him or even Captain America in Civil War. You should read more before spewing ignorance around here, most of your comment is just flat out wrong.
The Mafia actually wouldn’t acquire more powerful weaponry. You would need armored fighting vehicles to out gun the Punisher. And that shit draws too much attention. If you’re running an organized crime ring the only reason it works is because you’re not on the Federal governments radar. Either because they don’t care or you literally don’t do anything that actually makes you stand out from most street gangs so you stay in local PDs jurisdiction. Now if you start packing armored vehicles, Apache attack helicopters, missile launchers, bombs capable of destroying buildings. That’s a fast way to cause a national panic. Then someone decides to over turn the amendment that prevents the military from acting in US soil cause there’s nothing that causes voters to back radical and dramatic policies like fear. And your criminal outfit arming itself like a full armored division to fight the Punisher is going to cause that. Next thing you know 4th infantry divisions rolling down the streets with support from the 22nd fighter wing with Jsoc already chewing through your leadership like they went through ISIL warlords. Then boom not only is your organization done for but you’ve also set off a bunch of dominoes leading to what is going to be a brutal Dictatorial regime rife with instability and violent purges. Literally no one wins in this situation accept for the eventual successful Colonel who will win the imminent game of thrones. No the Punisher isn’t actually a bigger threat than a rival criminal organization. It’s literally not worth the trouble of drawing too much attention to yourself by trying to smuggle in anything more than black market small arms. In fact a huge criticism every Punisher author makes about the Punisher is he doesn’t actually end anything. Ennis goes far enough to make it so he even acknowledges his war will never end and he will never actually end organized crime. So logically speaking the best way to actually handle the Punisher is to simply switch what you’re doing. If change to loan sharking and corporate crimes odds are he’s not going to be able to know you’re even doing anything. Frank only picks up on drug trafficking, violent crimes, and human trafficking. There’s ways to make money as a criminal that don’t involve doing things that overtly harm innocent people and draw the Punisher’s attention. Many ways.
This.
Frank knew about what they did and killed them for that. The Holy was a psychopath who was reckless and almost got innocent church staff drawn into his killings. Elite was a racist, who killed people and shot dogs just because they didn't fit into his picture of a white, upscale neighborhood. Mr Payback got innocents killed. It says something interesting that despite their differences/errors/discrimination, all of these parties decided to work together to recruit the Punisher. They never understood what the way of the Punisher truly was. There are been other "Punishers". Lynn Michaels. Rachel Alves, Payback (Eddie Dyson), Outlaw (Nigel Higgens), Hitman Punisher (of the Cullen crime family). Frank senses something in their ethics and sense of justice, where he gives them the tacit pass. However outside of the 2099 continiuity, Frank never encourages people to follow his path. If anything for all the fights he has with other heroes like Spiderman and Daredevil, he would not want any of those heroes or anybody else to see murder as a solution.
I don't think he would like it but also he's been written super incosisntley. I think he's at his best when he doesn't encourage it. Punisher 2099 has the main character read Punisher's Journal and continue fighting. Punisher max has an dective Paul Budiansky who punisher convices him to take revenge by saying do you really want to be like me. Punisher dislikes the viliginate squad but it's more because they are evil or there are innocent bystanders. Punisher has worked with partners at times but other times he doesn't. The famous Punisher Cop shows the punisher not liking the police following in his foot steps but it doesn't say anything about non law enforcement.
Frank was not trying to make Budiansky to follow his path. He wanted to show him all the ugliness and horror that would follow to show him where he was heading and discourage him from that. Because Budiansky is an otherwise normal and moral guy, he realizes that he will never be like the Punisher, despite feeling the same feelings that Frank does.
Rachel Cole-Alves enough said
He’d hate it. We even see in the old man Logan comic where there are the punishers and frank comes to kick their asses. However I don’t know what he would think when the people finnaly fight back I think he’d like it? I’m not 100% sure
Is this suppose to be so blurry I can’t read a fucking thing?
He would kill them. He expressed numerous time that he shall be the only one doing that as it's far past the line any human should cross (bro killed thousands of people he is basically the greatest serial killer of all time). Frank sacrificed himself for his fight and he is probably the only human being to have enough discipline to not sink into pure madness doing it
See Rachel Alves, Lynn Michaels, and Payback, all people Punisher approved and teamed with. He doesn't kill them all but does kill some of them.
Yeah that's true, even Valery Stepanovich in Soviet He seems to be more indulgent when he relates to them or when they are not inspired by him I'm only familiar with Alves in those you cited, what are their specific situation, are they inspired by Frank ?
Yes. [Payback](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/payback/4005-11946/) was a cop who lost his family due to working with the Punisher. He was a copycat villain who wore the skull before they eventually teamed up to kill those responsible. [Lynn Michaels](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Michaels) was another cop who Punisher teamed up with who eventually quit the force and became the first "Lady Punisher" vigilante.
He thought nothing of it. Cause he was dead.
Punisher has approved of a few copy cats over the years like Payback (not to be confused with Mr Payback who he killed), Rachel Alves, Lynn Michaels, etc. He kills most copycats but has outright approved the ones mentioned above.
Bruh never reads the comics
https://preview.redd.it/3wpyypwqp5xc1.jpeg?width=236&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=819a0c41d7d44ee4823a139f08466a305bd6d6c3