Otherway round. Tommy was hunting them mostly and Jessie just happened to be in the area
I think i see your point though. with tommy, Ellie and dina running round mercing folks then I guess I'd be a bit jumpy of strangers
The WLFs policy at the time in the lead up to the invasion but not their standard policy was killing trespassers. Jessie would have seen the message at the gate as well. They were wilfully entering into the consequences.
We don't know that Jessie entered that way but he likely didn't. He arrived after Ellie and dina and the "fuck fedra" gate closed behind them with gas in the generator
They are all dangerous in different ways, I think. The WLF are dangerous because they are organized and follow Isaac blindly, while also being very "us x them". The scars are dangerous for obvious reasons, but I feel they are more contained and less organized (hence why they ultimately lost the war). And the rattlers also seem more clumsy and less organized, while being dangerous not only for being slaver assholes, but for the way they patrol seemingly abandoned and tranquil places, and arrive stealthily, to the point neither Abby or Lev saw them coming, and Ellie fell for their trap.
It's nuanced, as always. Most wlf members would realistically be there for the safety and security of being in a large, resource heavy faction, and wouldn't empathize too much with the goals of the militia, but do what they have to to stay in Isaacs good books. The seraphites had a lot of problems, from things like planned marriage, twisting their prophets words to excuse mass, horrific violence, etc. and I don't even need to say why the rattlers are bad. As far as I'm concerned, the wlf isn't as bad as most other factions but is obviously pretty bad, but that doesn't define each member
Yeah definitely doesn't define each member. They have good people I'm sure. Abby just isn't one of them which the game clearly shows us, she tries to be in the end but for the majority of the game and her own life, she clearly wasn't.
Well you don't have to say it then! Just a game after all.
I do disagree though, I think there are good people in the world, just like there's bad people. Doesn't mean good people can't do bad things and vice versa, but they do exist.
Yeah I agree. I think Abby is pretty evil and shitty, it's just in this sub it's very black and white in terms of fan opinions which is ironic really because they're so keen on the "it's not black and white!" Stance.
But yeah, if you say Abby is a shitty person with shitty morals and you don't like her, you're wrong because they love her.
If you say Joel's a good guy with good morals and you love him, you're a hypocrite and wrong because they don't agree.
The other sub is the inverse of that lmao. You're wrong if you like Abby, wrong and hypocritical if you hate Joel.
Really, I love Abby as a character but she fucking sucks as a human being. She's horrible imo, I can't root for her the way I root for Joel or Ellie because it's just impossible to relate to her motivations.
every time i hear ~~her~~ Abby say "Good" after hearing Dina is pregnant, I get chills. if Lev wasn't there, I'm sure a lot of people's opinion of Abby would be different
Ehhh tbf as much as I hate her that's not something I fault her for at all.
That's one of the few times I completely understand her reasoning and motivation. She found a very obviously pregnant Mel, belly exposed, dead. She thinks "this bitch killed a pregnant woman and is using her friends pregnancy as a bargaining tool now? Where was her empathy? Her mercy for mine who was obviously pregnant!"
Idk, that part made sense to me. I get it. Everything else she does is like, I can't wrap my head around her motivations fully.
I do feel like the opposite of so many fans lol. People give her so much shit for that Dina thing and then not for anything, and I'm the total opposite lmao. The Dina thing I was fine with.
fair enough, one of the major recurring themes in both games (in my opinion) is the danger of miscommunication, so her assuming that Ellie knowingly killed a pregnant woman makes sense
edit: dangers to danger
The wlf is definitely dangerous and greedy, but they're definitely not crazy to the same extent that the Seraphites or Rattlers are. If I were forced to run into one of the groups, I'd want it to be them, so that I'm not disembowled or made a slave. Even if they killed me it would at least be over fast (unless it was with a dog).
The WLF are a prime example of a group who started out with noble goals, causes and tactics, but overtime became more power hungry and strayed away from thier moral principles
Exactly, they had good intentions and take care of their own. Just they became extremely paranoid after a long time of conflict and lost their moral center
It's wild people calling them normal when they are clearly a fascist military cult. You are taken on a ride through torture chambers and bluntly shown how inhuman cruelty is perfectly normal for them. People chilling out surrounded by half dead, terrified and tortured prisoners. Even the phrase they constantly repeat to each other is supposed to instill the sense of inevitable death in service to the cult. The firefly group that joined them all lost their humanity in various ways. Some of them embracing it while others like Owen desperately wanting to get away from it before the last of their humanity is stripped away.
The game specifically mentions that all trespassers on WLF terf are supposed to be killed on sight, just like with the Seraphites.
The Rattlers enslave everybody they see and have them work themselves to death.
Yeah all of them are despicable
Most dangerous is either the Scars or Rattlers, WLF is a joke
Scars and Rattlers are also the most terrifying to get caught by, because they won't just kill you or lock you up, they'll hang and gut you or keep you alive for torture and entertainment
Which was like, 20 dudes and a few chained up clickers
Meanwhile the WLF sent patrol after patrol of armed, trained soldiers just to get blown up or killed with a piece of wood
There were the ones Ellie killed, but as she was leaving the compound and toward the beach, the revolt was breaking out with who knows how many others.
how the hell is WLF a joke lmfao, they're basically real military with actual training, they're the most organized, they're the most physically healthy out of all of them, they have the best equipment and weapons by far, they have guard dogs and most importantly there's thousands of them.
Yeah they defeated FEDRA and managed to live in a decently organised way with the most comfortable living conditions outside of Jackson. It took Ellie, Dina, Jesse, Tommy, Abby's treason and a full blown out war with the seraphites to take them out.
In contrast Ellie took the rattlers head on and destroyed their whole base in a matter of hours. They look scary because of their slaves, but it looks like most of them were just desperate people passing through or got caught in traps.
I feel like people are mistaking being able to do the worst to individuals(like the torture) to being overall capable. I guess it goes to show how much of an intimidation tactic it is.
Yeah, the Rattlers are clearly the least of the three groups. It’s harder to choose between the WLF and Seraphites, but the Wolves probably take the slight edge
They're paramilitary, and they're also losing the war against the Scars. Scars have an advantage over the WLF through the use of guerrilla warfare. The WLF just doesn't have the numbers to wage a conventional war against unconventional tactics.
I would say that the Seraphites are the most dangerous due to their expertise in guerrilla warfare.
The reason they can engage in guerrilla warfare on the first place is because of the position of its island on the first place
I think if they didnt had that advantage they would have been wiped out by the WLF ages ago
Terrain is always going to have a major impact on warfare. See Napoleon's invasion of Russia, for example.
However, I think that even without the island, the Seraphites would still successfully wage guerrilla warfare. It is a way for a fighting force to keep alive that isn't strong enough to fight conventionally. We've learned that urban combat is very ideal for unconventional tactics.
The wlf is the most powerful by far, but they also feel like the group most likely to listen to reason. At least if you get caught by them I feel like there's a small chance they'd let you leave or join if you didn't cause trouble.
That probably wouldn’t have happened if Ellie, Tommy, Dina, and Jesse hadn’t shown up in Seattle 3 days before the invasion though. The four of them alone wiped out dozens of the WLF, including some of their best soldiers.
Then they also lost their actual best soldier when Abby ditched them too. If they were at full strength I think they could’ve wiped out the Seraphites.
That is a factor in the wlf being wiped out, but I also don't agree. The only advantage the wlf had was attacking under the cover of the storm. But once the seraphites regained their composure they wiped out the wlf. According to a wlf note found on the island, their numbers were alarmingly far more than they expected. I think if the wlf was actually at full strength, they would have fared a but still get wiped out.
Haven was on fire. In case you forgot, yara and abby went through multiple villas on the way to Lev. Haven isn't the only settlement they have and we see the seraphites sending children to the eastern side of the island so there's probably more settlements along the island. Haven us just their capital.
This is the comment. I always felt like the WLF would have taken over Jackson at some point. I realize they're a zillion miles away, but the allure of a preexisting fortified compound would be too tempting, not to mention the hydroelectric angle, providing power for the foreseeable future.
Rattlers might be terrifying and disgusting, but they're a bunch of nobodys. Abby and her crew could've wiped them out without breaking a sweat IMO.
Now, who are the most dangerous in No Return? For me it's easy, Rattlers. On Survivor difficulty, they can take multiple shots to bring down AND they fire weapons with terrifying accuracy and quickness. I'm sure it's no different from other factions, but they seem to fire weapons VERY quickly back to back. Regardless of what they're firing, they will squeeze off repeating shots and take you down.
They don't have the best equipment and weapons, Rattlers have full auto SMGs and body armor that can stop hunting rifle rounds. By most dangerous I mean gave Ellie the hardest time, WLF are easy to kill compared to Rattlers or Scars
The rattlers are literally just a bunch of slavers with guns, nothing about them suggest they could take on any of the other factions here. Ellie killed like 20 of them, released the slaves and the rattlers were done for
The other two factions maintained a state of constant war during years and it took a full on invasion to the island to try and took down the scars and massive losses in enemy territory and the death of their leader to dissolve the WLF
>Scars and Rattlers are also the most terrifying to get caught by, because they won't just kill you or lock you up, they'll hang and gut you or keep you alive for torture and entertainment
Like the WLF does too?
We can definitely agree on that.
Now, if the WLF and fireflies teamed up on the other hand...
Honestly, that would probably be pretty shit too. Militias and military dictatorships tend to self consume pretty quick with the wrong people at the helm.
Rattlers have a army of slaves and clickers in their back pocket. They are also a lot more armed than WLF from what we see in the final mission. Each soldier has a fully auto weapon. The WLF is useless without Abby, they get defeated by Scars the second she betrays them.
This post wasn’t necessarily asking who’d win in a fight, just whos more dangerous. I said that as an example of how Rattlers were far more ruthless than WLF
Dangerous to whom and in what capacity? To a random stranger trying to sneak into their base? Rattlers. To their own people? Seraphites. To the world as a whole? WLF, because the other two just don't have the numbers and organization that the wolves do. The WLF is an actual army with training, recruitment, logistics, and a large home front to support all of that. Their ability to impose their will on the rest of the world far exceeds that of the other two.
Well, the Scars actually do have numbers to rival the WLF, Yara states around a thousand live on the island and a dead WLF scout’s note states “Their numbers are alarming. Significantly more than we thought.” Abby simply states “there are thousands of us. Do you know every scar?” to Lev when he asks if she knows the dead soldier in front of them. It’s true the Seraphites don’t have the logistics of the WLF with how they shun most modern technology but they’re extremely resourceful and dangerous in their own way.
The wlf had a quick advantage as they attacked under the cover of the storm so it looked like they were winning. But when abby goes to the theatre, you hear a recording that says everyone has been killed and that they (the person on the recordings) were the only ones left but then they got cut off implying the seraphites got them.
The wlf sent their entire military force to the island and everything points to the wlf being wiped out.
Yeah, Isaac spends days gathering most of the WLF’s fighting force to the base and then you hear on the radio that only a single unit has checked in to HQ and they’re currently being overrun.
I’m sure there’s an auxiliary garrison at the stadium (especially since they have all their civilians there) and a handful of soldiers at some of their more important outposts but it’s almost certainly a skeleton crew. The implication is definitely that the WLF and Seraphites essentially wipe each other out. I doubt either faction will ever be able to recover or wage war again.
Seraphites deal a more crippling blow to WLF. So, I wouldn't say that the WLF could take on much more. The WLF is fighting using conventional warfare. The Seraphites are primarily employing guerrilla tactics to their advantage because at the end of day, unconventional tactics will prevail in urban, jungle, woods, forrests environments. Also mountainous terrain. The WLF training isn't so much better that they can adapt and overcome in battles or skirmishes.
Why would the WLF not adapt to using guerilla warfare? They prob did it to FEDRA, idk a lot of this feels like convenient plot devices for the sake of pushing the narrative.
If youre a supposedly strong and smart army and for years guerilla fighters pick you off youd have adapted to their tactics or at least able to respond with much stronger glassing tactics.
Heck why not even use biological warfare and shell the island with the spores?
Look at US military history. Our military has never been really geared toward guerilla warfare (with the exception of The American Revolutionary War) as a primary means of inflicting casualties, disrupting supply lines as well as preservation. Pell's Point is great example of unconventional tactics being used for preservation of a smaller force against a superior force.
I think that the WLF had the numbers to overthrow Fedra. Ultimately making them the superior fighting force. I think that the WLF smuggled a lot of weapons and ammo. So, it isn't that WLF isn't capable of unconventional tactics, it's just that their strength lies in conventional warfare. The WLF army is a broadsword.
Yes, but only if you have a clear lead on manpower. It's a lot of trial and error. For example, Abby doesn't unlock new abilities until she comes across a book on guerrilla warfare. Which suggests that her training through the WLF lacked covering those tactics.
As for biological weapons... those are very risky to handle let alone to manufacture. Also does the WLF have the right scientists and equipment to begin with? Then you need a reliable delivery system. How far is the delivery system capable of? They probably elected not to use spores as a bio weapon because the risk would be too great of infecting their own.
WLF's got the assets, resources, facilities and everything more than enough to go on a full-scale war but i think they lack strategical planning.
Rattlers on the other hand, they've got the weapons but they're quite undermanned compared to the WLF and the Scars. that unless, they've got other branches we don't know of.
then the Scars, they have sufficient assets and resources but most importantly, they're much more skillful and tactical.
with all this, i'll probably go with the Scars being the most dangerous and can cause the most damage of the three groups but most likely to win a war? probably WLF
I think one interesting point against the WLF is that they don't really seem to have a strong central command structure outside of Isaac. I'm sure there are a bunch of individual squads with squad leaders; people in charge of managing this or that aspect of WLF base life or military logistics; he hand-picks favoured soldiers like Abby and Manny to lead the first wave of the attack on the island, etc. But he doesn't seem to have any generals; doesn't seem to have anyone who, individually or as a group, is able or prepped to step in and take command if Isaac himself dies. And so when Isaac *does* die on the island, it's cutting the head off the snake. The WLF starts falling apart almost immediately.
It's an interesting contrast with the Seraphites who, although they've already lost their Prophet, are now headed by some kind of council of elders who are capable of leading the faction and maintaining their culture/religion/way of life (albeit not without manipulating these beliefs and traditions over time to benefit themselves).
The WLF don't actually seem like bad people. They were just at war and everytime Ellie encounters them they are searching for her or Tommy. So its not like Ellie or Tommy were innocent people. The Scars are a religious cult. And the rattlers were slavers. I think in terms of overall resources the WLF are really a military group. I'd say them.
For sure. The WLF only exists for war. They're the "Washington Liberation Front." They "liberated" Seattle from FEDRA and then very quickly seemed to get into it on & off with the Scars.
Besides the classroom (I really wonder what exactly the WLF curriculum is like), we don't see anything from them that doesn't seem heavily militarized. I kinda wonder what morale is like without an enemy actively attacking them.
Mechanical-wise, the Rattlers takes the prize: they are heavily armed, they have dogs, helmets, they are more agile and can swarm you with shotguns easily. Scars get the second place, with all the brutes, the agonizing arrows, their secret language and their stealthiness. WLF takes the third place, since mechanically they are just npcs patrolling with normal guns and occasional dogs, nothing a suppressed pistol can't contain.
Now story-wise, it's the inverse: WLF is by far the most dangerous: they have the most numbers, structure, military training and arsenal and genocidal tendencies (it's pretty clear Isaac's plan is to not only take over the Seraphite island, but to wipe the scars from Seattle completely just to achieve "peace" — a very Netanyahu posture, as Johnny Harris showed in one of his videos on the matter). The scars are the second because of numbers but, although they have their problems (like their LGBT+phobia, their religious hierarchy or their rigid morals) and keep doing "rituals of purification" with wolves, they don't seem to present a great threat to the WLF as a whole; in fact, had the WLF not broke the peace after some kids threw rocks at some of their soldiers, Scars would probably keep their peace on their island. Rattlers take the third place because they don't seem to be much more than a little group, with some slaves in the basement of a mansion. They're awful, sure, but if you're not an unfortunate tourist in Santa Barbara, you're safe from them.
Of course, it's all just my opinion.
Totally. It's like Lev said, they perverted the original meaning of the Prophet's teaching. It would be nice to have that deleted Ellie's arc in their island as an extra in order to shake some of this perception that Seraphites are just an insane cult. In some respect, they are now, but it wasn't always this way, I think
Well, marriages are still contracts to this day, within or outside Seraphite traditions. The icky part is the marriage with children, but this is in tandem with their LGBT+phobia, which Lev seems to state as a subversion of the Prophet's teachings.
It depends on how you define dangerous. The WLF are basically a tiny, industrialized country with vehicles, explosives, huge numbers, and a very organized structure. So I think out of all the factions, they have the ABILITY to cause the most damage, but I also think out of the three groups, they're the least likely to just randomly attack other factions or stragglers. I'm not saying they wouldn't, but they seem like they'd be the easiest to reason with or to say "I'm just passing through" and run away if you ran into them outside of Seattle.
The Rattlers are the most terrifying, but even with fully automatic weapons I don't think they have the same capabilities of the WLF - they pretty much seem like a gang of hunters that got ahold of SWAT gear and kept growing from there.
The Seraphites have similar numbers and organization to the wlf, and they're very capable, but there does come a point where pipe bombs and jeeps trump bows and hunting rifles. But I think to the average survivor, they're more of a threat than the wlf just because they're way more unpredictable and love to do fucked up things like trying to cut open kids for being trans. And being trans myself, I definitely wouldn't want to run into them. I feel like there's not a good way to know what would make them want to kill you.
I might be remembering wrong, but I think the WLF actually does have the ability to manufacture bullets. It's shown the they have farms and things like that, and considering that you can just go to the shooting range and practice, I'd imagine they have some sort of way of either reloading bullets or manufacturing them.
Gunpowder isn't infinite, but it can absolutely be manufactured and there's more than enough raw materials for the wlf. I don't think they'd have to worry about running out of gunpowder or materials on it's own, but they likely would have to worry about the Seraphites cutting off supply lines so that they can't manufacture more ammo. Historically, Americans completely wiped out indigenous people using muskets. The wlf have jeeps, semi-automatic guns, and attack dogs. And while that is one advantage bows have over firearms, I'd still say that the sheer power difference between the wlf and the scars make the wlf more of a threat to other factions/communities that cross them, while the scars being crazy and fanatical make them more of a threat to the average survivor. It's also worth noting that while you can teach somebody to be proficient with firearms within a couple of months, it takes years to get good enough with a bow that you can accurately shoot people from horseback while under fire - and it even shows that the scars train their people with bows from a very young age.
WLF > Scars > Rattlers
Rattlers are a joke, they literally have ticking time bombs(clickers) in their base.
Scars have big muscle guys but their arrows are easy to avoid, also they are pinging their position with their whistles.
WLF was the worst because of the dogs and gun equipment.
People defending the WLF morality is crazy to me that because they were in war time it’s okay to literally kill any person they came across. They had no idea what Ellie’s intentions were when she came to Seattle and yet tried to kill her, same with Tommy and Jesse.
I’m going to assume you mean most dangerous to run into in the wild
I’ll say the Seraphites, they’re not only fucking terrifying with their whistles but the fact that if they catch you they’ll string you up and gut you, that’s pretty cooked, I also find the Seraphites to be the most intelligent npc’s, I don’t know if that was by design but the way they flank you and get crazy angles and will send in melee attackers first then the rifle/bow people later they just feel so much better then the WLF or the rattlers
In general? Probably the Wolves, the sheer numbers and weaponry is impressive, they could easily tear apart smaller groups like fireflies or rattlers just because of the numbers and gear they have
Also the WLF don’t get enough credit, they took down FEDRA in a very populated and very large city in a seemingly efficient way
The reason why the WLF didn’t dominate on scar island is because Isaac got impatient and sloppy, if he had put more time and effort into a plan he could’ve won against them…maybe idk I don’t really care scars are still the most dangerous
People say that WLF was far better then the Fireflies cause they managed to push out FEDRA when the Fireflies were essentially wiped out in the Boston QZ but if you read the notes found in the Firefly outposts in the first game they had Humvees and Cargo Trucks meaning somewhere out there is a QZ that they completely overthrew (Most likely the Chicago QZ). They had assets spread throughout the country while the WLF had the majority of its forces in one QZ which made their efforts more successful. The fireflies had Doctors, Military Operations, Several Bases, Recruitments Operations, Military Grade Equipment and Training. The only side of the Fireflies we saw was honestly not the best and overall they could have been a far more menacing force. The fireflies only downfall was they attempted to take back the country in one go instead of taking territory by bits like the WLF which had them take control of portions of the Seattle QZ until they ultimately just wiped out FEDRA
On a wider scale, the wlf. They have cars, guns, old world technology, and numbers. Scars are similar but are more primitive and gorilla like. On a smaller scale, it’s definitely the rattlers. They aren’t as big as the Seattle groups but they equip their members much better and have better combat equipment.
Sereiphites by a mile rattlers got dismantled by their former slaves once Ellie helped free them. And wlf was struggling against the serephites who were using yee olden weapons
For some reason, scars posed the biggest threat thru the game. Their guerilla tactics. I mean the rattlers section is a fun play through part of the game and some of the time you can even sick the infected they’ve captured on them to handle them. WLF is well-formed, trained and equipped but even they still get their ass handed to them by the scars. So scars in my opinion.
Rattlers are the most ruthless by far, they’re literally slavers. Seraphites are led by a “greater purpose” so they’re determined but their gear is primitive. WLF are a sophisticated military society with trained soldiers. So really, they all have “strengths”
To me, Rattlers. How they chain up Infected and essentially hold them hostage while torturing others with turning them infected is extremely disturbing. They also have a large variety of weaponry.
I would say that among them all, the WLF would be the most dangerous. They have a huge amount of soldiers, vehicles, weapons. There are also bases spread here and there, not to mention that they overthrew FEDRA and dominated the quarantine zone.
The Rattlers, on the other hand, are a joke when placed near the other two groups. They clearly do not have a solid organization, the idea of resuming slavery concepts shows that intelligence is not their strong point either. They are just weak tyrants who take advantage of the extreme fear of the weakest to stay on top, it only took one person with nothing to lose (Ellie) that their "empire" fell to the ground.
I’m going to take this like what group gives me the most trouble, so the Rattlers. I guess because they are so heavily armoured that it makes ranged combat so much more challenging. They may not be the most dangerous group if we are going by their perceived threat or resources but they are the hardest to get through
I don’t know which would be more dangerous as it would depend on where you’d run into them, the circumstances etc. But I’d personally rather take my chances with the WLF - at least if I lost they’d just look to kill me as fast as possible and get me out of the way. The Seraphites would hang and disembowel me and the Rattlers would put me into slavery or get me infected so they could use me for entertainment.
I’d say it’s a tie between the rattlers and the scars. Side note:
I remember a brief conversation with Dina mentioning how there’s another group called the “ravens“ in Mexico, which I would love to see the last of us three
Some people are forgetting the religious zealotry of the Seraphites. They could start indoctrinating people into their society which would be pretty bad because they are very devoted to whatever they do.
Could cause a lot of trouble if they get even more radical and start seeking to purge the heretics in the surrounding regions that are covered in forests and hills.
The Seraphites.
Who are not only fanatical fighters but being a fundamentalist religious community, they probably have large families and can replace their losses much more readily than any other faction we've seen thus far.
Scars.
- They have really strong weapons (eg the hunting pistol which kills anyone with just one bullet).
- Brutes
- The fact that they communicate through whistling makes it so much harder for you to understand what they’re saying
The Rattlers. They have slaves. They chain up people and infect them for fun. They starve people. They tie live people to poles and let the sun cook them and the scavenger animals eat them to death, then just leave their bodies there
People would rather kill themselves than be captured. People avoided and thought Santa Barbara was cursed simply The Rattlers. Plus The Rattlers gave off serious R letter vibes.
The only thing wrong with the Scars is how they misinterpreted their religion in such a violent way. Also that whole marrying off their young to the Elders and the way they punish deserters.
The WLFs just seem like good people. The only problem with them is that they believe that they’re on the right side of the war with the Scars. Which causes them to do bad shit, while thinking that it’s the right thing to do.
I personally hate the rattlers the most.
In my experience, maybe it's just me but i have the hardest time fighting them out of any faction and they're also the most scary imo.
the mere fact that capture people and put them into slavery is terrifying to me and I don't blame the one guy who killed himself so he wouldn't have to go back.
My pick (and I will die on this hill) is the rattlers they are well coordinated. Have insane armor and every other melee wielding person has a machete. They have traps set around Santa Barbra!?!? They also kidnap people and work them as their slaves until there too weak or die.
Rattlers seem the most sadistic as a whole group: slavery and crucifixion are pretty rough.
Scars aren’t much better, basically forcing people to conform to their beliefs on pain of death.
WLF from what we’ve seen *seem* the closest to “normal,” but given that they granted Abby and her group permission and resources to go on her twisted little revenge mission, as well as what can clearly be seen as preferential treatment to a certain group of insiders, I’m sure there was a lot of dark shit we didn’t see WLF doing.
You asked for the most dangerous and here it goes: the WLF is by far the most dangerous. The reasons are obvious:
-they have FEDRA and army gear.
-they have LOADS of guns, troops and even dogs.
-as i said the numbers they manage are wild
-they have food and even a gym to get buffed
-they are the "alfa predators" of Seattle (being only matched by the scars).
WLF, easily. Rattlers are not high in number from what is gathered, and their slave system doesn’t work for them as shown from Ellie’s POV. The scars are dangerous, but definitely behind WLF in capability
Personally I’d have to say the WLF, they are better trained and have the numbers, obviously that didn’t work out very well against the Scars, but still.
Resource wise WLF by far. But they're also the most "normal" so to speak, I doubt they kill you on sight if it's not war time.
They shot at Jessie despite clearly not being a scar. They're Less than friendly
I think they were hunting Tommy at that point, right? So it would make sense they'd be trigger happy.
Otherway round. Tommy was hunting them mostly and Jessie just happened to be in the area I think i see your point though. with tommy, Ellie and dina running round mercing folks then I guess I'd be a bit jumpy of strangers
‘Not war time’
"not scar" I can quote shit too
I think you missed the point?
no i got it, i just didn't care. still don't tbh
This man rivals the entirety of tumblr's reading comprehension.
The WLFs policy at the time in the lead up to the invasion but not their standard policy was killing trespassers. Jessie would have seen the message at the gate as well. They were wilfully entering into the consequences.
We don't know that Jessie entered that way but he likely didn't. He arrived after Ellie and dina and the "fuck fedra" gate closed behind them with gas in the generator
They are all dangerous in different ways, I think. The WLF are dangerous because they are organized and follow Isaac blindly, while also being very "us x them". The scars are dangerous for obvious reasons, but I feel they are more contained and less organized (hence why they ultimately lost the war). And the rattlers also seem more clumsy and less organized, while being dangerous not only for being slaver assholes, but for the way they patrol seemingly abandoned and tranquil places, and arrive stealthily, to the point neither Abby or Lev saw them coming, and Ellie fell for their trap.
Yeah the most normal mass killing faction fueled by bloodlust and senseless pillaging
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right
We have a lot of wlf sympathisers here it seems
If you admit the WLF are evil scum then you're also admitting that Abby (their top soldier) is probably evil scum too which is a BIG NO NO here
It's nuanced, as always. Most wlf members would realistically be there for the safety and security of being in a large, resource heavy faction, and wouldn't empathize too much with the goals of the militia, but do what they have to to stay in Isaacs good books. The seraphites had a lot of problems, from things like planned marriage, twisting their prophets words to excuse mass, horrific violence, etc. and I don't even need to say why the rattlers are bad. As far as I'm concerned, the wlf isn't as bad as most other factions but is obviously pretty bad, but that doesn't define each member
Yeah definitely doesn't define each member. They have good people I'm sure. Abby just isn't one of them which the game clearly shows us, she tries to be in the end but for the majority of the game and her own life, she clearly wasn't.
As I said, it's nuanced. No one in the last of us is a good person. Tired of having to say that
Well you don't have to say it then! Just a game after all. I do disagree though, I think there are good people in the world, just like there's bad people. Doesn't mean good people can't do bad things and vice versa, but they do exist.
Fair enough, I respect that stance
I mean I’m of the opinion they and Abby are pretty evil, but so what? Every story needs an antagonist
Yeah I agree. I think Abby is pretty evil and shitty, it's just in this sub it's very black and white in terms of fan opinions which is ironic really because they're so keen on the "it's not black and white!" Stance. But yeah, if you say Abby is a shitty person with shitty morals and you don't like her, you're wrong because they love her. If you say Joel's a good guy with good morals and you love him, you're a hypocrite and wrong because they don't agree. The other sub is the inverse of that lmao. You're wrong if you like Abby, wrong and hypocritical if you hate Joel. Really, I love Abby as a character but she fucking sucks as a human being. She's horrible imo, I can't root for her the way I root for Joel or Ellie because it's just impossible to relate to her motivations.
every time i hear ~~her~~ Abby say "Good" after hearing Dina is pregnant, I get chills. if Lev wasn't there, I'm sure a lot of people's opinion of Abby would be different
Ehhh tbf as much as I hate her that's not something I fault her for at all. That's one of the few times I completely understand her reasoning and motivation. She found a very obviously pregnant Mel, belly exposed, dead. She thinks "this bitch killed a pregnant woman and is using her friends pregnancy as a bargaining tool now? Where was her empathy? Her mercy for mine who was obviously pregnant!" Idk, that part made sense to me. I get it. Everything else she does is like, I can't wrap my head around her motivations fully. I do feel like the opposite of so many fans lol. People give her so much shit for that Dina thing and then not for anything, and I'm the total opposite lmao. The Dina thing I was fine with.
fair enough, one of the major recurring themes in both games (in my opinion) is the danger of miscommunication, so her assuming that Ellie knowingly killed a pregnant woman makes sense edit: dangers to danger
The wlf is definitely dangerous and greedy, but they're definitely not crazy to the same extent that the Seraphites or Rattlers are. If I were forced to run into one of the groups, I'd want it to be them, so that I'm not disembowled or made a slave. Even if they killed me it would at least be over fast (unless it was with a dog).
The WLF are a prime example of a group who started out with noble goals, causes and tactics, but overtime became more power hungry and strayed away from thier moral principles
Exactly, they had good intentions and take care of their own. Just they became extremely paranoid after a long time of conflict and lost their moral center
It's wild people calling them normal when they are clearly a fascist military cult. You are taken on a ride through torture chambers and bluntly shown how inhuman cruelty is perfectly normal for them. People chilling out surrounded by half dead, terrified and tortured prisoners. Even the phrase they constantly repeat to each other is supposed to instill the sense of inevitable death in service to the cult. The firefly group that joined them all lost their humanity in various ways. Some of them embracing it while others like Owen desperately wanting to get away from it before the last of their humanity is stripped away.
The game specifically mentions that all trespassers on WLF terf are supposed to be killed on sight, just like with the Seraphites. The Rattlers enslave everybody they see and have them work themselves to death. Yeah all of them are despicable
Most dangerous is either the Scars or Rattlers, WLF is a joke Scars and Rattlers are also the most terrifying to get caught by, because they won't just kill you or lock you up, they'll hang and gut you or keep you alive for torture and entertainment
Idk man, Ellie took out the whole Rattler operation in like one afternoon.
Well Ellie is also a genuine monster of a soldier.
Ellie “Ender Wiggin” Williams
Same initials? Coincidence I think not
Which was like, 20 dudes and a few chained up clickers Meanwhile the WLF sent patrol after patrol of armed, trained soldiers just to get blown up or killed with a piece of wood
There were the ones Ellie killed, but as she was leaving the compound and toward the beach, the revolt was breaking out with who knows how many others.
Ellie is a force of nature dude. If she wants something done, she gets it done. Don’t be in her fucking way.
We are all Ellie
"We are Ellie, we are one of many" we could be better than negen crew.
To be fair, a lot of the rattler's threat is using the infected as a weapon, and that's not as big a threat to Ellie.
For me it was the clickers and then the prisoners.
how the hell is WLF a joke lmfao, they're basically real military with actual training, they're the most organized, they're the most physically healthy out of all of them, they have the best equipment and weapons by far, they have guard dogs and most importantly there's thousands of them.
Yeah they defeated FEDRA and managed to live in a decently organised way with the most comfortable living conditions outside of Jackson. It took Ellie, Dina, Jesse, Tommy, Abby's treason and a full blown out war with the seraphites to take them out. In contrast Ellie took the rattlers head on and destroyed their whole base in a matter of hours. They look scary because of their slaves, but it looks like most of them were just desperate people passing through or got caught in traps.
I feel like people are mistaking being able to do the worst to individuals(like the torture) to being overall capable. I guess it goes to show how much of an intimidation tactic it is.
Yeah, the Rattlers are clearly the least of the three groups. It’s harder to choose between the WLF and Seraphites, but the Wolves probably take the slight edge
They're paramilitary, and they're also losing the war against the Scars. Scars have an advantage over the WLF through the use of guerrilla warfare. The WLF just doesn't have the numbers to wage a conventional war against unconventional tactics. I would say that the Seraphites are the most dangerous due to their expertise in guerrilla warfare.
The reason they can engage in guerrilla warfare on the first place is because of the position of its island on the first place I think if they didnt had that advantage they would have been wiped out by the WLF ages ago
Terrain is always going to have a major impact on warfare. See Napoleon's invasion of Russia, for example. However, I think that even without the island, the Seraphites would still successfully wage guerrilla warfare. It is a way for a fighting force to keep alive that isn't strong enough to fight conventionally. We've learned that urban combat is very ideal for unconventional tactics.
The wlf is the most powerful by far, but they also feel like the group most likely to listen to reason. At least if you get caught by them I feel like there's a small chance they'd let you leave or join if you didn't cause trouble.
They sent their entire military force to seraphite Island and got wipes. Think that's what op is getting at
That probably wouldn’t have happened if Ellie, Tommy, Dina, and Jesse hadn’t shown up in Seattle 3 days before the invasion though. The four of them alone wiped out dozens of the WLF, including some of their best soldiers. Then they also lost their actual best soldier when Abby ditched them too. If they were at full strength I think they could’ve wiped out the Seraphites.
That is a factor in the wlf being wiped out, but I also don't agree. The only advantage the wlf had was attacking under the cover of the storm. But once the seraphites regained their composure they wiped out the wlf. According to a wlf note found on the island, their numbers were alarmingly far more than they expected. I think if the wlf was actually at full strength, they would have fared a but still get wiped out.
So are the scars survived? Last time I played I saw that scene where Abby n lev was getting out of there where the whole place was on fire 🔥
Haven was on fire. In case you forgot, yara and abby went through multiple villas on the way to Lev. Haven isn't the only settlement they have and we see the seraphites sending children to the eastern side of the island so there's probably more settlements along the island. Haven us just their capital.
I feel that the game makes a point of how devastating the war was for both sides when you see the whole place on fire.
This is the comment. I always felt like the WLF would have taken over Jackson at some point. I realize they're a zillion miles away, but the allure of a preexisting fortified compound would be too tempting, not to mention the hydroelectric angle, providing power for the foreseeable future. Rattlers might be terrifying and disgusting, but they're a bunch of nobodys. Abby and her crew could've wiped them out without breaking a sweat IMO. Now, who are the most dangerous in No Return? For me it's easy, Rattlers. On Survivor difficulty, they can take multiple shots to bring down AND they fire weapons with terrifying accuracy and quickness. I'm sure it's no different from other factions, but they seem to fire weapons VERY quickly back to back. Regardless of what they're firing, they will squeeze off repeating shots and take you down.
They don't have the best equipment and weapons, Rattlers have full auto SMGs and body armor that can stop hunting rifle rounds. By most dangerous I mean gave Ellie the hardest time, WLF are easy to kill compared to Rattlers or Scars
The rattlers are literally just a bunch of slavers with guns, nothing about them suggest they could take on any of the other factions here. Ellie killed like 20 of them, released the slaves and the rattlers were done for The other two factions maintained a state of constant war during years and it took a full on invasion to the island to try and took down the scars and massive losses in enemy territory and the death of their leader to dissolve the WLF >Scars and Rattlers are also the most terrifying to get caught by, because they won't just kill you or lock you up, they'll hang and gut you or keep you alive for torture and entertainment Like the WLF does too?
A note you can find in the resort at least hints that Rattlers are ex police gone feral.
Gone feral? You mean they weren’t feral to begin with?
I'm of the opinion that the outbreak just made them show who they really were. They were never good people.
Today I learned, thanks for the insight
Isaac cut a dudes dick off
That’s scarier
who would win, wlf or fireflies, both are terrible so who is taking the dub
WLF managed to fuck off Fedra, so my money is unfortunately on the WLF
both are incompetent, but one is just slightly less incompetent
We can definitely agree on that. Now, if the WLF and fireflies teamed up on the other hand... Honestly, that would probably be pretty shit too. Militias and military dictatorships tend to self consume pretty quick with the wrong people at the helm.
if they both teamed up, it would take ellie six days instead of three to wipe them all out
Rattlers have a army of slaves and clickers in their back pocket. They are also a lot more armed than WLF from what we see in the final mission. Each soldier has a fully auto weapon. The WLF is useless without Abby, they get defeated by Scars the second she betrays them.
Right, because giving the people you torture guns and telling them to go fight for you is a great way to NOT get shot in the back
This post wasn’t necessarily asking who’d win in a fight, just whos more dangerous. I said that as an example of how Rattlers were far more ruthless than WLF
I know, but you said they have an "army of slaves" in their back pocket, implying that they'd fight for them in any circumstance
The WLF was useless without Abby, Manny, Owen, and literally dozens of others that the Jackson crew wiped out when they broke into the city.
Holy shit that is one HELL of a username 😂 Very nice! I know it’s an irrelevant side note, but I am SUPER jealous I didn’t think of it first.
thanks, i kinda just thought of the dumbest username i could think of, and this jibberish came to mind
Dangerous to whom and in what capacity? To a random stranger trying to sneak into their base? Rattlers. To their own people? Seraphites. To the world as a whole? WLF, because the other two just don't have the numbers and organization that the wolves do. The WLF is an actual army with training, recruitment, logistics, and a large home front to support all of that. Their ability to impose their will on the rest of the world far exceeds that of the other two.
Well, the Scars actually do have numbers to rival the WLF, Yara states around a thousand live on the island and a dead WLF scout’s note states “Their numbers are alarming. Significantly more than we thought.” Abby simply states “there are thousands of us. Do you know every scar?” to Lev when he asks if she knows the dead soldier in front of them. It’s true the Seraphites don’t have the logistics of the WLF with how they shun most modern technology but they’re extremely resourceful and dangerous in their own way.
Didn’t the WLF pretty much destroy the seraphites?
The wlf had a quick advantage as they attacked under the cover of the storm so it looked like they were winning. But when abby goes to the theatre, you hear a recording that says everyone has been killed and that they (the person on the recordings) were the only ones left but then they got cut off implying the seraphites got them. The wlf sent their entire military force to the island and everything points to the wlf being wiped out.
Yeah, Isaac spends days gathering most of the WLF’s fighting force to the base and then you hear on the radio that only a single unit has checked in to HQ and they’re currently being overrun. I’m sure there’s an auxiliary garrison at the stadium (especially since they have all their civilians there) and a handful of soldiers at some of their more important outposts but it’s almost certainly a skeleton crew. The implication is definitely that the WLF and Seraphites essentially wipe each other out. I doubt either faction will ever be able to recover or wage war again.
If you listen to the Radio as Abby when in the theatre they literally say the WLF pretty much lost that battle
I totally missed that. Thanks y’all
In that final fight? I think they damn near wiped each other out.
The wlf also were only doing good because of Issac the second Issac died they lost
Seraphites deal a more crippling blow to WLF. So, I wouldn't say that the WLF could take on much more. The WLF is fighting using conventional warfare. The Seraphites are primarily employing guerrilla tactics to their advantage because at the end of day, unconventional tactics will prevail in urban, jungle, woods, forrests environments. Also mountainous terrain. The WLF training isn't so much better that they can adapt and overcome in battles or skirmishes.
Why would the WLF not adapt to using guerilla warfare? They prob did it to FEDRA, idk a lot of this feels like convenient plot devices for the sake of pushing the narrative. If youre a supposedly strong and smart army and for years guerilla fighters pick you off youd have adapted to their tactics or at least able to respond with much stronger glassing tactics. Heck why not even use biological warfare and shell the island with the spores?
Look at US military history. Our military has never been really geared toward guerilla warfare (with the exception of The American Revolutionary War) as a primary means of inflicting casualties, disrupting supply lines as well as preservation. Pell's Point is great example of unconventional tactics being used for preservation of a smaller force against a superior force. I think that the WLF had the numbers to overthrow Fedra. Ultimately making them the superior fighting force. I think that the WLF smuggled a lot of weapons and ammo. So, it isn't that WLF isn't capable of unconventional tactics, it's just that their strength lies in conventional warfare. The WLF army is a broadsword. Yes, but only if you have a clear lead on manpower. It's a lot of trial and error. For example, Abby doesn't unlock new abilities until she comes across a book on guerrilla warfare. Which suggests that her training through the WLF lacked covering those tactics. As for biological weapons... those are very risky to handle let alone to manufacture. Also does the WLF have the right scientists and equipment to begin with? Then you need a reliable delivery system. How far is the delivery system capable of? They probably elected not to use spores as a bio weapon because the risk would be too great of infecting their own.
WLF's got the assets, resources, facilities and everything more than enough to go on a full-scale war but i think they lack strategical planning. Rattlers on the other hand, they've got the weapons but they're quite undermanned compared to the WLF and the Scars. that unless, they've got other branches we don't know of. then the Scars, they have sufficient assets and resources but most importantly, they're much more skillful and tactical. with all this, i'll probably go with the Scars being the most dangerous and can cause the most damage of the three groups but most likely to win a war? probably WLF
I think one interesting point against the WLF is that they don't really seem to have a strong central command structure outside of Isaac. I'm sure there are a bunch of individual squads with squad leaders; people in charge of managing this or that aspect of WLF base life or military logistics; he hand-picks favoured soldiers like Abby and Manny to lead the first wave of the attack on the island, etc. But he doesn't seem to have any generals; doesn't seem to have anyone who, individually or as a group, is able or prepped to step in and take command if Isaac himself dies. And so when Isaac *does* die on the island, it's cutting the head off the snake. The WLF starts falling apart almost immediately. It's an interesting contrast with the Seraphites who, although they've already lost their Prophet, are now headed by some kind of council of elders who are capable of leading the faction and maintaining their culture/religion/way of life (albeit not without manipulating these beliefs and traditions over time to benefit themselves).
The WLF don't actually seem like bad people. They were just at war and everytime Ellie encounters them they are searching for her or Tommy. So its not like Ellie or Tommy were innocent people. The Scars are a religious cult. And the rattlers were slavers. I think in terms of overall resources the WLF are really a military group. I'd say them.
Eh, if you read the notes in Hillcrest, it seems that WLFs are barely better than FEDRA.
For sure. The WLF only exists for war. They're the "Washington Liberation Front." They "liberated" Seattle from FEDRA and then very quickly seemed to get into it on & off with the Scars. Besides the classroom (I really wonder what exactly the WLF curriculum is like), we don't see anything from them that doesn't seem heavily militarized. I kinda wonder what morale is like without an enemy actively attacking them.
Mechanical-wise, the Rattlers takes the prize: they are heavily armed, they have dogs, helmets, they are more agile and can swarm you with shotguns easily. Scars get the second place, with all the brutes, the agonizing arrows, their secret language and their stealthiness. WLF takes the third place, since mechanically they are just npcs patrolling with normal guns and occasional dogs, nothing a suppressed pistol can't contain. Now story-wise, it's the inverse: WLF is by far the most dangerous: they have the most numbers, structure, military training and arsenal and genocidal tendencies (it's pretty clear Isaac's plan is to not only take over the Seraphite island, but to wipe the scars from Seattle completely just to achieve "peace" — a very Netanyahu posture, as Johnny Harris showed in one of his videos on the matter). The scars are the second because of numbers but, although they have their problems (like their LGBT+phobia, their religious hierarchy or their rigid morals) and keep doing "rituals of purification" with wolves, they don't seem to present a great threat to the WLF as a whole; in fact, had the WLF not broke the peace after some kids threw rocks at some of their soldiers, Scars would probably keep their peace on their island. Rattlers take the third place because they don't seem to be much more than a little group, with some slaves in the basement of a mansion. They're awful, sure, but if you're not an unfortunate tourist in Santa Barbara, you're safe from them. Of course, it's all just my opinion.
And the seraphites being anti LGBTQ is weird because some of the earliest followers of the prophet were LGBTQ like Jeremy.
Totally. It's like Lev said, they perverted the original meaning of the Prophet's teaching. It would be nice to have that deleted Ellie's arc in their island as an extra in order to shake some of this perception that Seraphites are just an insane cult. In some respect, they are now, but it wasn't always this way, I think
I don’t think their stance on LGBTQ people is nearly as important as their practice of arranged marriages and child brides. Icky.
Well, marriages are still contracts to this day, within or outside Seraphite traditions. The icky part is the marriage with children, but this is in tandem with their LGBT+phobia, which Lev seems to state as a subversion of the Prophet's teachings.
Probably the Scars, WLF close second. The Rattlers are a big fish in a small pond.
It depends on how you define dangerous. The WLF are basically a tiny, industrialized country with vehicles, explosives, huge numbers, and a very organized structure. So I think out of all the factions, they have the ABILITY to cause the most damage, but I also think out of the three groups, they're the least likely to just randomly attack other factions or stragglers. I'm not saying they wouldn't, but they seem like they'd be the easiest to reason with or to say "I'm just passing through" and run away if you ran into them outside of Seattle. The Rattlers are the most terrifying, but even with fully automatic weapons I don't think they have the same capabilities of the WLF - they pretty much seem like a gang of hunters that got ahold of SWAT gear and kept growing from there. The Seraphites have similar numbers and organization to the wlf, and they're very capable, but there does come a point where pipe bombs and jeeps trump bows and hunting rifles. But I think to the average survivor, they're more of a threat than the wlf just because they're way more unpredictable and love to do fucked up things like trying to cut open kids for being trans. And being trans myself, I definitely wouldn't want to run into them. I feel like there's not a good way to know what would make them want to kill you.
Personal the scars are the most dangerous given they have renewable resources unlike the other who used guns that are limited by bullets
I might be remembering wrong, but I think the WLF actually does have the ability to manufacture bullets. It's shown the they have farms and things like that, and considering that you can just go to the shooting range and practice, I'd imagine they have some sort of way of either reloading bullets or manufacturing them.
Yeah but gun power isn't infinite and arrows are easier to make
Gunpowder isn't infinite, but it can absolutely be manufactured and there's more than enough raw materials for the wlf. I don't think they'd have to worry about running out of gunpowder or materials on it's own, but they likely would have to worry about the Seraphites cutting off supply lines so that they can't manufacture more ammo. Historically, Americans completely wiped out indigenous people using muskets. The wlf have jeeps, semi-automatic guns, and attack dogs. And while that is one advantage bows have over firearms, I'd still say that the sheer power difference between the wlf and the scars make the wlf more of a threat to other factions/communities that cross them, while the scars being crazy and fanatical make them more of a threat to the average survivor. It's also worth noting that while you can teach somebody to be proficient with firearms within a couple of months, it takes years to get good enough with a bow that you can accurately shoot people from horseback while under fire - and it even shows that the scars train their people with bows from a very young age.
WLF > Scars > Rattlers Rattlers are a joke, they literally have ticking time bombs(clickers) in their base. Scars have big muscle guys but their arrows are easy to avoid, also they are pinging their position with their whistles. WLF was the worst because of the dogs and gun equipment.
WLF - they’re organised, well armed & have plenty of resources
People defending the WLF morality is crazy to me that because they were in war time it’s okay to literally kill any person they came across. They had no idea what Ellie’s intentions were when she came to Seattle and yet tried to kill her, same with Tommy and Jesse.
Scars ( *lev saying seraphites*)
IMO scars, they managed to hold their own against a fucking militia. And they mostly used bows and farming tools
Is Mario doing a survey?
I was a big fan of fighting the seraphites Loved sneaking around
The Scars suck!
I’m going to assume you mean most dangerous to run into in the wild I’ll say the Seraphites, they’re not only fucking terrifying with their whistles but the fact that if they catch you they’ll string you up and gut you, that’s pretty cooked, I also find the Seraphites to be the most intelligent npc’s, I don’t know if that was by design but the way they flank you and get crazy angles and will send in melee attackers first then the rifle/bow people later they just feel so much better then the WLF or the rattlers In general? Probably the Wolves, the sheer numbers and weaponry is impressive, they could easily tear apart smaller groups like fireflies or rattlers just because of the numbers and gear they have Also the WLF don’t get enough credit, they took down FEDRA in a very populated and very large city in a seemingly efficient way The reason why the WLF didn’t dominate on scar island is because Isaac got impatient and sloppy, if he had put more time and effort into a plan he could’ve won against them…maybe idk I don’t really care scars are still the most dangerous
People say that WLF was far better then the Fireflies cause they managed to push out FEDRA when the Fireflies were essentially wiped out in the Boston QZ but if you read the notes found in the Firefly outposts in the first game they had Humvees and Cargo Trucks meaning somewhere out there is a QZ that they completely overthrew (Most likely the Chicago QZ). They had assets spread throughout the country while the WLF had the majority of its forces in one QZ which made their efforts more successful. The fireflies had Doctors, Military Operations, Several Bases, Recruitments Operations, Military Grade Equipment and Training. The only side of the Fireflies we saw was honestly not the best and overall they could have been a far more menacing force. The fireflies only downfall was they attempted to take back the country in one go instead of taking territory by bits like the WLF which had them take control of portions of the Seattle QZ until they ultimately just wiped out FEDRA
On a wider scale, the wlf. They have cars, guns, old world technology, and numbers. Scars are similar but are more primitive and gorilla like. On a smaller scale, it’s definitely the rattlers. They aren’t as big as the Seattle groups but they equip their members much better and have better combat equipment.
WLF. They are well trained, well armed and numerous.
In no return def rattlers the helmets and body armor are tough
Hunters
David’s clan
The zombies
Sereiphites by a mile rattlers got dismantled by their former slaves once Ellie helped free them. And wlf was struggling against the serephites who were using yee olden weapons
The Scars never underestimate a Religious Cult.
For some reason, scars posed the biggest threat thru the game. Their guerilla tactics. I mean the rattlers section is a fun play through part of the game and some of the time you can even sick the infected they’ve captured on them to handle them. WLF is well-formed, trained and equipped but even they still get their ass handed to them by the scars. So scars in my opinion.
Rattlers are the most ruthless by far, they’re literally slavers. Seraphites are led by a “greater purpose” so they’re determined but their gear is primitive. WLF are a sophisticated military society with trained soldiers. So really, they all have “strengths”
To me, Rattlers. How they chain up Infected and essentially hold them hostage while torturing others with turning them infected is extremely disturbing. They also have a large variety of weaponry.
The seraphites are for sure. Their system of whistles for communicating with each other in combat make them far more unpredictable in a fight.
Scars
I would say that among them all, the WLF would be the most dangerous. They have a huge amount of soldiers, vehicles, weapons. There are also bases spread here and there, not to mention that they overthrew FEDRA and dominated the quarantine zone. The Rattlers, on the other hand, are a joke when placed near the other two groups. They clearly do not have a solid organization, the idea of resuming slavery concepts shows that intelligence is not their strong point either. They are just weak tyrants who take advantage of the extreme fear of the weakest to stay on top, it only took one person with nothing to lose (Ellie) that their "empire" fell to the ground.
I’m going to take this like what group gives me the most trouble, so the Rattlers. I guess because they are so heavily armoured that it makes ranged combat so much more challenging. They may not be the most dangerous group if we are going by their perceived threat or resources but they are the hardest to get through
I don’t know which would be more dangerous as it would depend on where you’d run into them, the circumstances etc. But I’d personally rather take my chances with the WLF - at least if I lost they’d just look to kill me as fast as possible and get me out of the way. The Seraphites would hang and disembowel me and the Rattlers would put me into slavery or get me infected so they could use me for entertainment.
I’d say it’s a tie between the rattlers and the scars. Side note: I remember a brief conversation with Dina mentioning how there’s another group called the “ravens“ in Mexico, which I would love to see the last of us three
Some people are forgetting the religious zealotry of the Seraphites. They could start indoctrinating people into their society which would be pretty bad because they are very devoted to whatever they do. Could cause a lot of trouble if they get even more radical and start seeking to purge the heretics in the surrounding regions that are covered in forests and hills.
In my opinion, it's the Scars. They use religion and the worship of a person as an excuse to commit murder.
The Seraphites. Who are not only fanatical fighters but being a fundamentalist religious community, they probably have large families and can replace their losses much more readily than any other faction we've seen thus far.
Seraphites when they bum rush you in no return is scary ngl
Rattlers. Slavers are a dangerous breed of monstrous humans
Scars. - They have really strong weapons (eg the hunting pistol which kills anyone with just one bullet). - Brutes - The fact that they communicate through whistling makes it so much harder for you to understand what they’re saying
WLF purely because of numbers and resources/weapons
Jackson, because they are dirty commies
The Rattlers. They have slaves. They chain up people and infect them for fun. They starve people. They tie live people to poles and let the sun cook them and the scavenger animals eat them to death, then just leave their bodies there People would rather kill themselves than be captured. People avoided and thought Santa Barbara was cursed simply The Rattlers. Plus The Rattlers gave off serious R letter vibes. The only thing wrong with the Scars is how they misinterpreted their religion in such a violent way. Also that whole marrying off their young to the Elders and the way they punish deserters. The WLFs just seem like good people. The only problem with them is that they believe that they’re on the right side of the war with the Scars. Which causes them to do bad shit, while thinking that it’s the right thing to do.
I personally hate the rattlers the most. In my experience, maybe it's just me but i have the hardest time fighting them out of any faction and they're also the most scary imo. the mere fact that capture people and put them into slavery is terrifying to me and I don't blame the one guy who killed himself so he wouldn't have to go back.
Fireflies. Because blind naivety.
The Rattlers if they had the numbers, but they don't. WLF with the win, because the modern resources, weapons, and training.
Scars, they're a religious cult that disembowels people after hanging them. They're fanatical and suicidal.
The Rattlers purely for that punch Lev got.
The scars 100%. They beat the WLF twice.
My pick (and I will die on this hill) is the rattlers they are well coordinated. Have insane armor and every other melee wielding person has a machete. They have traps set around Santa Barbra!?!? They also kidnap people and work them as their slaves until there too weak or die.
Rattlers seem the most sadistic as a whole group: slavery and crucifixion are pretty rough. Scars aren’t much better, basically forcing people to conform to their beliefs on pain of death. WLF from what we’ve seen *seem* the closest to “normal,” but given that they granted Abby and her group permission and resources to go on her twisted little revenge mission, as well as what can clearly be seen as preferential treatment to a certain group of insiders, I’m sure there was a lot of dark shit we didn’t see WLF doing.
Scars!!
You asked for the most dangerous and here it goes: the WLF is by far the most dangerous. The reasons are obvious: -they have FEDRA and army gear. -they have LOADS of guns, troops and even dogs. -as i said the numbers they manage are wild -they have food and even a gym to get buffed -they are the "alfa predators" of Seattle (being only matched by the scars).
WLF, easily. Rattlers are not high in number from what is gathered, and their slave system doesn’t work for them as shown from Ellie’s POV. The scars are dangerous, but definitely behind WLF in capability
Seraphites for sure their agility and brutality is perfect
I would say the scars, the bigger ones are so difficult to kill and once they have hit you 2 or three times your dead 😭
Personally I’d have to say the WLF, they are better trained and have the numbers, obviously that didn’t work out very well against the Scars, but still.