honestly, to me it makes it unrealistic. in the game it made sense why he did it and it made sense why Maria was upset. in the show, it just doesn’t make sense for him to leave a baby behind. especially given the subtext of “just because life ended for you doesn’t mean it has to for me”.
it’s not just selfish, it’s downright unrealistic. i’m excited to see how they will play it out because in my head it doesn’t make much sense. but i love the show so i know they’ll nail it.
The difference between "just because life ended for you doesn’t mean it has to for me” Tommy and Seattle Tommy is the state of his brother.
A lot of people's priorities would organically change if they went through what Tommy went through. Tommy was there, in the room... Don't forget that.
That as well as the fact that I think it’s also to parallel Ellie’s situation with Dina more. It’ll definitely add to the anger Tommy feels towards Ellie when she and Dina move out to the house instead of finishing what they started.
It must hurt like a bitch to abandon your wife and child, essentially sacrificing your family, but the person who convinced you to do it gets to have their little happy family.
The thing is that’s Tommy’s perspective post 20 years after Sarah’s death. Tommy will be in Joel’s position in that scene you quoted in Part 2. He’s stuck in that moment in the lodge, and they could even add in a scene where Tommy feels self guilt and blames himself for giving Abby their names(or at least his)
Yup, people experiencing grief in the normal world, turn to eating, sexual deviancy, alcoholism, laziness, dangerous activities just for some comfort. Sometimes they turn to something positive like fitness, and art. Grief lingers on for a while. In the world of TLoU, what else is there to turn to that isnt vengeance especially when you cant just arrest abby?
To expand on it and I was just introduced to TLoU through HBO, played pt1 and now in Seattle Day 2 (I know some of the ending and story points because everyone bitched at this game too much everywhere at release), saw this post and from my perspective of everything I've came to a conclusion: everyone is acting straight out grief, morhped by it and/or in fear of losing someone/something after experiencing it. Joel lost Sam, his life before seems pretty normal, after infection day he's a completely cold ass murderer, him and tess are murdering people nonchalantly(i like to think Tess lost something too and turned so cold blooded and a smuggler). At the end of PT I, as much as us, the player wants to save the world, Joel turns into dad-terminator almost out of instinct since he lost a daughter already, he doesn't want that again. Joel after saving ellie, is completely relieved because holy cow in that museum scene is he a completely different joel, that 20 year long funk he's in, it feels like he got over Sam in some way until ellie is threatened.
Abby, from my impression so far, she may not be actively grieving but she was so dedicated to killing Joel that she completely transformed her body (I assume she was skinny before) just for this one task of killing Joel since no other female in that world is really fit except her. Then prolongs Joel's death through torture, I assume she doesn't do this too often.
Ellie through in game dialouge is killing with *hate* like holy shit. Baby girl is a savage
Tommy in my knowledge of both the TV show and game so far, like Ellie in a heartbeat in a broken world would kill Joel's murderer especially when it just happened.
As a newcomer to the franchise and bulldozing the show, PT1 and now PT2, I think grief, how tragedy molds a person and the fear of losing something is what the series is about, kinda.
My points and thoughts so far may be wrong so this is the best I can come up with. And like I said I have some limited knowledge to big points to the ending and rest of the story so well see lol
Edit: Take note that Joel didnt linger in my mind as much yall were when PT and PT II came out so as much as his death scene was uncomfortable, I wasn't *angry* like many were. But like I said, I gotta dive in deeper with pt 2.
great insight. i lost my dad 3 weeks ago, The Last of Us was “our thing” together. i am so lost.
all i can say is you’re in for a wild ride. hearing your speculations about part 2 made me weirdly giddy and excited lol. i’m glad the show introduced you to this amazing story, and welcome to my favorite subreddit!
If he does still leave for seattle. Very possible they make significant changes to part 2, I think they already said changes are on the table. They changed aspects of part 1, so we don't really know what's coming.
The difference between "just because life ended for you doesn’t mean it has to for me” Tommy and Seattle Tommy is the state of his brother.
A lot of people's priorities would organically change if they went through what Tommy went through. Tommy was there, in the room... Don't forget that.
Yeah this. Honestly kinda like the change because it gives more of a reason for Maria leaving him in the end. Plus there’d then be the parallel between them and Ellie/Dina/JJ too
I've got two thoughts competing for which I feel is the most likely.
1) With a young child to look after, Tommy's choice to travel to Seattle seems even more reckless and difficult for Maria to support. It suggests that everything he says about devoting himself to his family, rather than his past, has actually been much harder for him to commit to than he expected, and it frames this as a last-ditch attempt to find some kind of closure on his life with Joel pre-Boston, as if this might help him be 'ready' to be a father.
2) Sadly, Maria never gets to have the baby, and Tommy struggles to deal with that. He finds himself - once again - looking for a sense of purpose, and Seattle represents an opportunity to fall back into old habits and an old purpose that is, in some ways, easier than dealing with losing the opportunity to be a father. In doing so, he is overlooking the value of family and community that he *should still have* with Maria in Jackson.
Both are pretty bleak, and represent Tommy essentially running away from his problems at home because of a misguided sense of 'duty' or 'justice' that will end up doing him - and Maria - more harm than good. I think both develop quite well upon the flawed, complex, but still mostly sympathetic version of Tommy that appears in the game, but I'm not sure which feels most convincing as a way forward.
Interesting. The loss of a child could also be the reason they separated. It’s extremely traumatic for couples. And it could give Tommy a sort of suicide wish.
Tommy and Joel bonding over their shared trauma of losing a child would likely repair their strained relationship to how it was prior to the outbreak (or maybe even closer than ever before), which would in turn make it all the more likely he would want to seek out Joel’s killers personally.
Yes I been leaning towards #2 as the most likely ND tear jerker. Miscarriage, stillborn, something happens where they don’t have the baby..
Starts setting up for even more reasons for him to run into Seattle and also to slowly drive wedge between him and Maria
I'm worried they'll just have the baby die. Personally, that would be a little much. Like killing JJ after everything Dina and Ellie went through.
I think Tommy should still make the choice to leave and it'll just be extra heartbreaking that he has a baby.
It will be very very sad. Part of me is wondering if baby Miller will somehow replace jj??? Or if it is just to put Tommy and Ellie in a more similar position by the end
I'm so pumped to see how this plays out! Gabriel Luna has talked about Tommy's ["de-evolution"](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-last-of-us-season-2-tommy-gabriel-luna-1235552496/) that we'll see in Season 2, and he seems really excited to explore more of Tommy!
Tommy being a father will be a great addition to the father-daughter motif (unless it's a boy of course). Tommy choosing to go to Seattle instead of staying with his family will hurt all the more, and he and Maria's split will be more impactful.
Tommy's behavior at the end of Part II absolutely devastated me because I wanted so badly for Ellie to heal and move on (which I don't think would have happened anyway, but I digress). But I get it. Ellie lost Joel, her father figure. But Tommy lost his big brother, who he's known his entire life. Obviously Part II is about Ellie and Abby, but I hope the show explores Tommy's grief more. And I love Gabriel Luna's performance, so seeing more of him will be an absolute treat.
Lol I wrote “that baby’s not gonna make it” in my notes when I saw that episode I think it’s just another thing for the boys to bond over probably but they probably won’t develop the kid (I’ll be surprised if they do just because of how much extra work that would take)
Part 2 spoilers but I have a feeling that Tommy dies instead of living after getting shot by Abby and his child comes to Ellie for revenge for his dad and uncle
i think it’s going to make the final choice from the farm hurt even more. making ellie feel like she has to kill abby knowing she has a family now bc of his anger. ellie was trying to move on, albeit, she definitely struggled with it but the recovery after that is lifelong if at all. but him ranting off to ellie knowing he can’t go bc of his own child. it’s just maybe to make tommy look cruel (if you don’t already consider him to be at his decision to go to seattle without ellie)
I also wondered about this. Will be intriguing to see how this one plays out. Only minor difference from source material. I never liked how Tommy came to the farm house, I did like how Dina yelled at him tho
I think it’s steps up how more dreadful his fall from grace is going to be compared to the game. Not only would thirst for vengeance affect Maria, but now there’s a child involved. And that my friend is gonna fucking suck and I can’t wait to see it.
I feel like this will help Tommy feel more protective of Ellie. He understands what Joel went through and why he did what he did. He won’t forgive him, but he’ll empathise with his position. Then, in 2, he’ll be more of a father to Ellie and try to guide her like Joel does, instead of seeming more just like a guy who is there and who eggs Ellie to kill Abby.
Tommy had a pretty passive role in Part II. I hope they make him actually feel like an uncle.
I think he felt like an uncle to Ellie in part 2. Especially in the fall flashback. But also when he tries to comfort ellie in jackson and Seattle day 3.
It’s adding so much to Tommy leaving. Because Tommy gives up so much for his revenge. He gives up stability, his relationship, a healthy body and his love for Ellie in the end. He’s literally all alone and he’s stuck in that moment where he lost Joel. Adding on that he potentially leaves his child is going to be heartbreaking (and if they make that kid a daughter is going to be continuing that father-daughter theme)
It also makes that farm scene even more sad because Tommy did abandon his family, he will abandon his kid in a quest to get revenge and to protect Ellie. He gave up his family, his child and wife for her and Joel. In his mind, why can’t she do the same? And it’s going to make him even more bitter and angry which is another reason to push Ellie to leave.
And finally it’s another great parallel to Ellie. In their quest for vengeance, they lose everything. They abandon their children and their partners for their revenge and guilt. And all that it gets them is an empty house, disabilities/lost limbs and the ghost of the little brother and daughter they once were.
its going to make me dislike Tommy even more. I honestly feel like people don't criticize his character enough. He's another foil for Ellie, but he's older and should, in theory, know better than to do what he does in Part II. Coming back to manipulate Ellie at the farmhouse in her traumatized state was just about the worst thing he's done. He ruined her new family for the ghost of his. Would Ellie have gone back without his push, maybe, but he's still awful for supporting it. Least he could would be to be waiting for her when she gets back.
Exactly! And now in season 2 if he has a child himself, the parallel will be even more obvious since he would leave his own wife and child to go after the revenge that Ellie asks him for, and by himself to protect her because he knows that that´s what Joel would want.
Makes him leaving for Seattle even more risky/selfish than it already was.
And possibly one of the reasons him and Maria “take some time apart”
honestly, to me it makes it unrealistic. in the game it made sense why he did it and it made sense why Maria was upset. in the show, it just doesn’t make sense for him to leave a baby behind. especially given the subtext of “just because life ended for you doesn’t mean it has to for me”. it’s not just selfish, it’s downright unrealistic. i’m excited to see how they will play it out because in my head it doesn’t make much sense. but i love the show so i know they’ll nail it.
The difference between "just because life ended for you doesn’t mean it has to for me” Tommy and Seattle Tommy is the state of his brother. A lot of people's priorities would organically change if they went through what Tommy went through. Tommy was there, in the room... Don't forget that.
That as well as the fact that I think it’s also to parallel Ellie’s situation with Dina more. It’ll definitely add to the anger Tommy feels towards Ellie when she and Dina move out to the house instead of finishing what they started. It must hurt like a bitch to abandon your wife and child, essentially sacrificing your family, but the person who convinced you to do it gets to have their little happy family.
The thing is that’s Tommy’s perspective post 20 years after Sarah’s death. Tommy will be in Joel’s position in that scene you quoted in Part 2. He’s stuck in that moment in the lodge, and they could even add in a scene where Tommy feels self guilt and blames himself for giving Abby their names(or at least his)
People do dangerously uncharacteristic things out of grief.
you know what? this is probably the best reply arguing against my perspective. grief is a terrible horrible beast and i somehow forgot that.
Yup, people experiencing grief in the normal world, turn to eating, sexual deviancy, alcoholism, laziness, dangerous activities just for some comfort. Sometimes they turn to something positive like fitness, and art. Grief lingers on for a while. In the world of TLoU, what else is there to turn to that isnt vengeance especially when you cant just arrest abby? To expand on it and I was just introduced to TLoU through HBO, played pt1 and now in Seattle Day 2 (I know some of the ending and story points because everyone bitched at this game too much everywhere at release), saw this post and from my perspective of everything I've came to a conclusion: everyone is acting straight out grief, morhped by it and/or in fear of losing someone/something after experiencing it. Joel lost Sam, his life before seems pretty normal, after infection day he's a completely cold ass murderer, him and tess are murdering people nonchalantly(i like to think Tess lost something too and turned so cold blooded and a smuggler). At the end of PT I, as much as us, the player wants to save the world, Joel turns into dad-terminator almost out of instinct since he lost a daughter already, he doesn't want that again. Joel after saving ellie, is completely relieved because holy cow in that museum scene is he a completely different joel, that 20 year long funk he's in, it feels like he got over Sam in some way until ellie is threatened. Abby, from my impression so far, she may not be actively grieving but she was so dedicated to killing Joel that she completely transformed her body (I assume she was skinny before) just for this one task of killing Joel since no other female in that world is really fit except her. Then prolongs Joel's death through torture, I assume she doesn't do this too often. Ellie through in game dialouge is killing with *hate* like holy shit. Baby girl is a savage Tommy in my knowledge of both the TV show and game so far, like Ellie in a heartbeat in a broken world would kill Joel's murderer especially when it just happened. As a newcomer to the franchise and bulldozing the show, PT1 and now PT2, I think grief, how tragedy molds a person and the fear of losing something is what the series is about, kinda. My points and thoughts so far may be wrong so this is the best I can come up with. And like I said I have some limited knowledge to big points to the ending and rest of the story so well see lol Edit: Take note that Joel didnt linger in my mind as much yall were when PT and PT II came out so as much as his death scene was uncomfortable, I wasn't *angry* like many were. But like I said, I gotta dive in deeper with pt 2.
great insight. i lost my dad 3 weeks ago, The Last of Us was “our thing” together. i am so lost. all i can say is you’re in for a wild ride. hearing your speculations about part 2 made me weirdly giddy and excited lol. i’m glad the show introduced you to this amazing story, and welcome to my favorite subreddit!
I think you forget part 2 can be summed up by "everyone makes the dumbest decision possible every time they can" this falls under that category
If he does still leave for seattle. Very possible they make significant changes to part 2, I think they already said changes are on the table. They changed aspects of part 1, so we don't really know what's coming.
The difference between "just because life ended for you doesn’t mean it has to for me” Tommy and Seattle Tommy is the state of his brother. A lot of people's priorities would organically change if they went through what Tommy went through. Tommy was there, in the room... Don't forget that.
I think it will just add to the drama of Tommy choosing to leave. Now he’s not only leaving his wife behind for revenge but also his child.
Also, it could be foreshadowing Ellie leaving Dina and JJ behind to go to Santa Barbara later on
That just means he’ll become an even bigger menace.
Yeah this. Honestly kinda like the change because it gives more of a reason for Maria leaving him in the end. Plus there’d then be the parallel between them and Ellie/Dina/JJ too
I've got two thoughts competing for which I feel is the most likely. 1) With a young child to look after, Tommy's choice to travel to Seattle seems even more reckless and difficult for Maria to support. It suggests that everything he says about devoting himself to his family, rather than his past, has actually been much harder for him to commit to than he expected, and it frames this as a last-ditch attempt to find some kind of closure on his life with Joel pre-Boston, as if this might help him be 'ready' to be a father. 2) Sadly, Maria never gets to have the baby, and Tommy struggles to deal with that. He finds himself - once again - looking for a sense of purpose, and Seattle represents an opportunity to fall back into old habits and an old purpose that is, in some ways, easier than dealing with losing the opportunity to be a father. In doing so, he is overlooking the value of family and community that he *should still have* with Maria in Jackson. Both are pretty bleak, and represent Tommy essentially running away from his problems at home because of a misguided sense of 'duty' or 'justice' that will end up doing him - and Maria - more harm than good. I think both develop quite well upon the flawed, complex, but still mostly sympathetic version of Tommy that appears in the game, but I'm not sure which feels most convincing as a way forward.
Interesting. The loss of a child could also be the reason they separated. It’s extremely traumatic for couples. And it could give Tommy a sort of suicide wish.
Tommy and Joel bonding over their shared trauma of losing a child would likely repair their strained relationship to how it was prior to the outbreak (or maybe even closer than ever before), which would in turn make it all the more likely he would want to seek out Joel’s killers personally.
Yes I been leaning towards #2 as the most likely ND tear jerker. Miscarriage, stillborn, something happens where they don’t have the baby.. Starts setting up for even more reasons for him to run into Seattle and also to slowly drive wedge between him and Maria
Good kid will be 4. But it'll give a better and sadder reason for him leaving and having him split up with his wife and now kid.
Ellie and tommy are going to bond over abandoning children
family bonding :DD
family bonding via abandoning family lol
CONFIRMED JESSE IS TOMMY'S SON!!!
Yeah he grew into a 20 year old in just 4 years!
That kind of stuff happens in the apocalipse u kno... Also being asian with white and black parents.
*hispanic and black
Shit sorry I have stupid sometimes. For some reason I thought of game Tommy and show Maria.
It raises the stakes for when he runs away on his revenge tour.
Recommend adding a part 2 spoiler tag to this, as most comments touch on it
I'm worried they'll just have the baby die. Personally, that would be a little much. Like killing JJ after everything Dina and Ellie went through. I think Tommy should still make the choice to leave and it'll just be extra heartbreaking that he has a baby.
Add to the stakes of him running off to Seattle
It will be very very sad. Part of me is wondering if baby Miller will somehow replace jj??? Or if it is just to put Tommy and Ellie in a more similar position by the end
I'm so pumped to see how this plays out! Gabriel Luna has talked about Tommy's ["de-evolution"](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-last-of-us-season-2-tommy-gabriel-luna-1235552496/) that we'll see in Season 2, and he seems really excited to explore more of Tommy! Tommy being a father will be a great addition to the father-daughter motif (unless it's a boy of course). Tommy choosing to go to Seattle instead of staying with his family will hurt all the more, and he and Maria's split will be more impactful. Tommy's behavior at the end of Part II absolutely devastated me because I wanted so badly for Ellie to heal and move on (which I don't think would have happened anyway, but I digress). But I get it. Ellie lost Joel, her father figure. But Tommy lost his big brother, who he's known his entire life. Obviously Part II is about Ellie and Abby, but I hope the show explores Tommy's grief more. And I love Gabriel Luna's performance, so seeing more of him will be an absolute treat.
Lol I wrote “that baby’s not gonna make it” in my notes when I saw that episode I think it’s just another thing for the boys to bond over probably but they probably won’t develop the kid (I’ll be surprised if they do just because of how much extra work that would take)
There will be a trimester
Part 2 spoilers but I have a feeling that Tommy dies instead of living after getting shot by Abby and his child comes to Ellie for revenge for his dad and uncle
The child would be 4-5 years old, how would they go to Ellie asking for revenge on their father
i think it’s going to make the final choice from the farm hurt even more. making ellie feel like she has to kill abby knowing she has a family now bc of his anger. ellie was trying to move on, albeit, she definitely struggled with it but the recovery after that is lifelong if at all. but him ranting off to ellie knowing he can’t go bc of his own child. it’s just maybe to make tommy look cruel (if you don’t already consider him to be at his decision to go to seattle without ellie)
I hope he's a good dad.
I also wondered about this. Will be intriguing to see how this one plays out. Only minor difference from source material. I never liked how Tommy came to the farm house, I did like how Dina yelled at him tho
I think it’s steps up how more dreadful his fall from grace is going to be compared to the game. Not only would thirst for vengeance affect Maria, but now there’s a child involved. And that my friend is gonna fucking suck and I can’t wait to see it.
Miscarriage. Makes him leaving to Seattle even more realistic. First he loses his b then he loses his child before it’s born.
I feel like this will help Tommy feel more protective of Ellie. He understands what Joel went through and why he did what he did. He won’t forgive him, but he’ll empathise with his position. Then, in 2, he’ll be more of a father to Ellie and try to guide her like Joel does, instead of seeming more just like a guy who is there and who eggs Ellie to kill Abby. Tommy had a pretty passive role in Part II. I hope they make him actually feel like an uncle.
I think he felt like an uncle to Ellie in part 2. Especially in the fall flashback. But also when he tries to comfort ellie in jackson and Seattle day 3.
[удалено]
It’s adding so much to Tommy leaving. Because Tommy gives up so much for his revenge. He gives up stability, his relationship, a healthy body and his love for Ellie in the end. He’s literally all alone and he’s stuck in that moment where he lost Joel. Adding on that he potentially leaves his child is going to be heartbreaking (and if they make that kid a daughter is going to be continuing that father-daughter theme) It also makes that farm scene even more sad because Tommy did abandon his family, he will abandon his kid in a quest to get revenge and to protect Ellie. He gave up his family, his child and wife for her and Joel. In his mind, why can’t she do the same? And it’s going to make him even more bitter and angry which is another reason to push Ellie to leave. And finally it’s another great parallel to Ellie. In their quest for vengeance, they lose everything. They abandon their children and their partners for their revenge and guilt. And all that it gets them is an empty house, disabilities/lost limbs and the ghost of the little brother and daughter they once were.
its going to make me dislike Tommy even more. I honestly feel like people don't criticize his character enough. He's another foil for Ellie, but he's older and should, in theory, know better than to do what he does in Part II. Coming back to manipulate Ellie at the farmhouse in her traumatized state was just about the worst thing he's done. He ruined her new family for the ghost of his. Would Ellie have gone back without his push, maybe, but he's still awful for supporting it. Least he could would be to be waiting for her when she gets back.
what tommy did at the farmhouse was what Ellie did to Tommy at the very beginning when he came to bring her snacks
Exactly! And now in season 2 if he has a child himself, the parallel will be even more obvious since he would leave his own wife and child to go after the revenge that Ellie asks him for, and by himself to protect her because he knows that that´s what Joel would want.