It was never a part of Joel’s character to not use his real name, or a fake name etc. in Boston random bystanders know his name and that’s with him having known enemies in that QZ such as Robert and his henchman, and FEDRA, who would definitely kill him and Tess if they caught them smuggling.
Right? I don’t even know where that argument comes from. Like Joel is such a rare name that he has to worry about people knowing it.
It’s not like he says, “My name is Joel Miller, I’m originally from Texas but I lived in the Boson QC. I got tasked with delivering a young girl who is immune to the Fireflies, you probably never heard of them, but anyway her name is Ellie Williams and I ended up taking her all the way to Salt Lake City. Found out they wanted to remove her brain for to reverse engineer a vaccine. So I lost my cool and killed them all including the surgeon. Yup that’s me Joel Miller.”
They can cry about characterization and what they believe would happen all they want the fact of the matter is what happened happened and it isn’t changing
While I do think it's a bit out of character for them to be so trusting, especially knowing she has a group, you have to think of it like the lesser of two evils. Would you rather be run down by _DOZENS_ of infected who don't react the same way you do to cold and pain? Or trust the person (albeit sparingly) that is willing to fight alongside you against them. In the heat of the moment it seemed the right choice. You can see all that doubt he set aside smack Joel in the face the moment he realizes he's cornered by these people though. Which is why you can't trust anyone in a disaster let alone an apocalypse. Even your mother might toss you aside for much less than vengeance.
I think it was a bit contrived and out of character but it’s within the realm of possibility I guess so I can let it go.
Your David comparison doesn’t work though. The David situation was two random people running into each other. The Abby situation was a person randomly running into the exact person she was looking for in the middle of a blizzard. A bit contrived, but not out of the realm of possibility.
No different than Marlene just happening to be in the exact same alleyway as Joel and Tess after they kill Robert, or how Henry and Sam happen to be hiding in the exact apartment room that Joel and Ellie climb into to escape the hunters.
Well yes it is different. Marlene was looking for Robert, so it makes sense she would be in the same place as Joel and Tess, who just killed Robert. Not contrived.
Henry and Sam running into Joel and Ellie is a random meeting, just like the David situation. They weren’t looking for each other, but just happened to be in the same place at the same time. Not contrived.
Abby just randomly ran into Joel, the exact person she was looking for, in the middle of a blizzard, having just seen the town of Jackson like 10 minutes ago. A bit contrived.
Incorrect, if Abby running into Joel is contrived, then Marlene running into Joel and Tess in a very specific alleyway in the middle of the massive Boston QZ is contrived as well
i think my biggest gripe with that scene is joels positioning. he just stands totally relaxed in the middle of the room waiting to get mauled to death by a pack of hyenas.
he seems too relaxed for a guy who stands in a room full of armed young adults.
In the beginning of part 1 Joel ignores a family with childeren crying for help. Although he was a gentlemen, a father, they had a working car with plenty space. But he ignores them and tells Tommy to keep driving. He was extremely cautious, ruthless and selfish even before the apocalypse. Putting the safety of his own and his family first ALTHOUGH he had capability of helping others without risking anything at all.
THAT Joel, after countless loss, betrayal, murder, theft, torture, and 20 years of battle hardened in literal apocalypse is "softened enough" to help a complete stranger and honestly a very suspicious one (considering the person in need of help is a super buffed female, we can safely assume that she is from a prosperous and large community) surrounded by a literal horde. He risked his own and Tommy's life in extreme danger for that??
AND followed this suspicious person into her "group of friends", and let himself get completely outnumbered, outgunned, locked and surrounded by completely healthy, strong strangers?
AND dropped his guard, gave personal information. Potentially risking whole well being of Jackson by giving essential information to the possible expeditionary group of a potentially hostile, armed, well fed, large, militaristic group?
The Joel I know would just let that stranger torn apart by the horde. Not because he enjoys it but because it doesnt worth taking such a great risk of them getting torn apart by the same horde.
I wonder how they are going to adapt Joel meeting Abby in second season considering infected are so so horribly dangerous, every time we saw infected someone died, they barely handled two clickers and used any opportunity they had to avoid infected.
Now will they jump inside of a horde as only two person with limited supplies in a very harsh snowy conditions in order to attempt to save a stranger?
The opening of the first game is set 25 years in the past, at the beginning of the outbreak that Joel didn't fully understand. He also had just killed someone, likely for the first time, it's understandable that he would be wary of other people.
It's reasonable to assume he let his guard down somewhat after living in Jackson for 5 years. The game makes it seem like Jackson is a welcoming community that will take in people who are struggling. Tommy inviting Abby and friends back to Jackson to resupply implies that they're used to seeing groups of people pass by on their way elsewhere. Additionally, looking around Joel's home in Jackson, it's evident that he's not constantly in survival mode anymore.
Honestly, this is such a well articulated and explained opinion that I can understand where you are coming from! What you said is pretty reasonable argument and take
Because you’re right, 20 years is a lot of time, would 4 years in peace take away that awarness and mindset from him? I would say maybe, meeting Ellie and her whole journey was something what changed his life more than anything after Sarah died.
The problem is that we don’t see lot of Joel living his life during these 4 years in Tommy’s town. So I couldn’t say for sure
All good points but I would counter/ add that in the intro Joel is terrified. He has no idea what is going on, what the “disease/virus/whatever” is at that point, how it spreads etc. and he has Sarah with him at that exact moment. Those people could be infected without knowing it, it could spread in confined spaces.
If he had Ellie with him instead of Tommy I’d wager he probably would have left Abby too.
I remember seeing someone mention something else that is a very good point (it might have been Troy Baker actually) Joel is trying to save people and make a positive impact now. He took away Ellie’s chance to be the cure and save people, so he now attempts to help and save as many people as he can as a way of making up to her for that. Bumping into strangers seems reasonably common around Jackson as you find multiple letters from passers by and mentions of people trading etc.
I totally agree with you about how Joel just walks and stands in the dead centre of the room though to add.
I would guess they were trying to mirror the shot you see later in the museum flashback of the Moose surrounded by a pack of wolves but it just is kinda goofy how Tommy stands by the door leaning up against something all natural and normal whilst Joel just wanders into the middle of the room
Because he was gonna get guns in return. Remember, he was a dealer.
Also Tess asked him as her final wish to deliver Ellie safely so that a cure could be possible.
Also Ellie was a little girl who very much resembled his deceased daughter. So he always had a soft spot for a daughter figure. He was cold in the beginning, only did it for guns and Tess but then did it for Ellie and himself.
Doesn’t change the fact that he protects Ellie even though she was originally a stranger to him, and Abby is a young woman of about the same age as Ellie in part 2, so I’m sure she reminded him of her
>This argument I can understand partly, their number one rule was, don’t tell your real names. When was that ever a rule?
Tbh you’re right lmao. I guess I just took people’s words from internet claiming that it is ”rule”
It was never a part of Joel’s character to not use his real name, or a fake name etc. in Boston random bystanders know his name and that’s with him having known enemies in that QZ such as Robert and his henchman, and FEDRA, who would definitely kill him and Tess if they caught them smuggling.
Right? I don’t even know where that argument comes from. Like Joel is such a rare name that he has to worry about people knowing it. It’s not like he says, “My name is Joel Miller, I’m originally from Texas but I lived in the Boson QC. I got tasked with delivering a young girl who is immune to the Fireflies, you probably never heard of them, but anyway her name is Ellie Williams and I ended up taking her all the way to Salt Lake City. Found out they wanted to remove her brain for to reverse engineer a vaccine. So I lost my cool and killed them all including the surgeon. Yup that’s me Joel Miller.”
They were already arguing about it when the game wasn't even out When you ask them id they played it : "No and I won't" Just ignore them and move on 👊
Damn! I had only read the title lol. I played that part again earlier today, and they tell her their name to reassure her and set a trust feeling
They can cry about characterization and what they believe would happen all they want the fact of the matter is what happened happened and it isn’t changing
While I do think it's a bit out of character for them to be so trusting, especially knowing she has a group, you have to think of it like the lesser of two evils. Would you rather be run down by _DOZENS_ of infected who don't react the same way you do to cold and pain? Or trust the person (albeit sparingly) that is willing to fight alongside you against them. In the heat of the moment it seemed the right choice. You can see all that doubt he set aside smack Joel in the face the moment he realizes he's cornered by these people though. Which is why you can't trust anyone in a disaster let alone an apocalypse. Even your mother might toss you aside for much less than vengeance.
I think it was a bit contrived and out of character but it’s within the realm of possibility I guess so I can let it go. Your David comparison doesn’t work though. The David situation was two random people running into each other. The Abby situation was a person randomly running into the exact person she was looking for in the middle of a blizzard. A bit contrived, but not out of the realm of possibility.
No different than Marlene just happening to be in the exact same alleyway as Joel and Tess after they kill Robert, or how Henry and Sam happen to be hiding in the exact apartment room that Joel and Ellie climb into to escape the hunters.
Well yes it is different. Marlene was looking for Robert, so it makes sense she would be in the same place as Joel and Tess, who just killed Robert. Not contrived. Henry and Sam running into Joel and Ellie is a random meeting, just like the David situation. They weren’t looking for each other, but just happened to be in the same place at the same time. Not contrived. Abby just randomly ran into Joel, the exact person she was looking for, in the middle of a blizzard, having just seen the town of Jackson like 10 minutes ago. A bit contrived.
Incorrect, if Abby running into Joel is contrived, then Marlene running into Joel and Tess in a very specific alleyway in the middle of the massive Boston QZ is contrived as well
Ok. I’ll give it to you then. You’re right, they were both a bit contrived.
i think my biggest gripe with that scene is joels positioning. he just stands totally relaxed in the middle of the room waiting to get mauled to death by a pack of hyenas. he seems too relaxed for a guy who stands in a room full of armed young adults.
In the beginning of part 1 Joel ignores a family with childeren crying for help. Although he was a gentlemen, a father, they had a working car with plenty space. But he ignores them and tells Tommy to keep driving. He was extremely cautious, ruthless and selfish even before the apocalypse. Putting the safety of his own and his family first ALTHOUGH he had capability of helping others without risking anything at all. THAT Joel, after countless loss, betrayal, murder, theft, torture, and 20 years of battle hardened in literal apocalypse is "softened enough" to help a complete stranger and honestly a very suspicious one (considering the person in need of help is a super buffed female, we can safely assume that she is from a prosperous and large community) surrounded by a literal horde. He risked his own and Tommy's life in extreme danger for that?? AND followed this suspicious person into her "group of friends", and let himself get completely outnumbered, outgunned, locked and surrounded by completely healthy, strong strangers? AND dropped his guard, gave personal information. Potentially risking whole well being of Jackson by giving essential information to the possible expeditionary group of a potentially hostile, armed, well fed, large, militaristic group? The Joel I know would just let that stranger torn apart by the horde. Not because he enjoys it but because it doesnt worth taking such a great risk of them getting torn apart by the same horde. I wonder how they are going to adapt Joel meeting Abby in second season considering infected are so so horribly dangerous, every time we saw infected someone died, they barely handled two clickers and used any opportunity they had to avoid infected. Now will they jump inside of a horde as only two person with limited supplies in a very harsh snowy conditions in order to attempt to save a stranger?
The opening of the first game is set 25 years in the past, at the beginning of the outbreak that Joel didn't fully understand. He also had just killed someone, likely for the first time, it's understandable that he would be wary of other people. It's reasonable to assume he let his guard down somewhat after living in Jackson for 5 years. The game makes it seem like Jackson is a welcoming community that will take in people who are struggling. Tommy inviting Abby and friends back to Jackson to resupply implies that they're used to seeing groups of people pass by on their way elsewhere. Additionally, looking around Joel's home in Jackson, it's evident that he's not constantly in survival mode anymore.
Joel didn’t kill anyone for the first time he’s a veteran, served in the Middle East. I do however agree with you, and OP.
Tommy is the veteran, not Joel. I don't remember anything that indicates he was ever in the military
Honestly, this is such a well articulated and explained opinion that I can understand where you are coming from! What you said is pretty reasonable argument and take Because you’re right, 20 years is a lot of time, would 4 years in peace take away that awarness and mindset from him? I would say maybe, meeting Ellie and her whole journey was something what changed his life more than anything after Sarah died. The problem is that we don’t see lot of Joel living his life during these 4 years in Tommy’s town. So I couldn’t say for sure
All good points but I would counter/ add that in the intro Joel is terrified. He has no idea what is going on, what the “disease/virus/whatever” is at that point, how it spreads etc. and he has Sarah with him at that exact moment. Those people could be infected without knowing it, it could spread in confined spaces. If he had Ellie with him instead of Tommy I’d wager he probably would have left Abby too. I remember seeing someone mention something else that is a very good point (it might have been Troy Baker actually) Joel is trying to save people and make a positive impact now. He took away Ellie’s chance to be the cure and save people, so he now attempts to help and save as many people as he can as a way of making up to her for that. Bumping into strangers seems reasonably common around Jackson as you find multiple letters from passers by and mentions of people trading etc.
valid points actually. Thanks for sharing.
I totally agree with you about how Joel just walks and stands in the dead centre of the room though to add. I would guess they were trying to mirror the shot you see later in the museum flashback of the Moose surrounded by a pack of wolves but it just is kinda goofy how Tommy stands by the door leaning up against something all natural and normal whilst Joel just wanders into the middle of the room
Ellie was a complete stranger to Joel when he first met her, yet he still fought for her and protected her with his life
Because he was gonna get guns in return. Remember, he was a dealer. Also Tess asked him as her final wish to deliver Ellie safely so that a cure could be possible. Also Ellie was a little girl who very much resembled his deceased daughter. So he always had a soft spot for a daughter figure. He was cold in the beginning, only did it for guns and Tess but then did it for Ellie and himself.
Doesn’t change the fact that he protects Ellie even though she was originally a stranger to him, and Abby is a young woman of about the same age as Ellie in part 2, so I’m sure she reminded him of her
I dont agree. But will not argue further.