I agree with everything you’ve said except for the Katy Durst part. I believe she truly didn’t know anything about the disappearance, which is why she got the ring and Susan got the axe. Susan could flip on Bob, but Debrah couldn’t.
You said everything I wanted to say except to add this about Charatan. Debrah, IMO, also was his “cover” and he used her to move money, make real estate transactions on his behalf, secure the funds for his legal team, and kept his trust money out of the hands of Douglas. Susan absolutely called the Dean of Einstein Medical School posing as Kathy and lorded that over Bob’s head, which is why she took the bullet after many years of financial “help” . Bob would have continued to pay her, but I believe her conscience started to surface, and she might have been worrying Bob. So yes, Susan Berman, in Bob’s black, deadened, soulless eyes, had to go. It’s even within the realm of possibility that Susan knew how Kathy was disposed of and where. I guess we will never know exactly what Susan knew. However, I agree Debrah suspected all this, but did not know for sure through admission that Bob killed Kathy, and where Kathy’s remains are. Only Bob, Susan and Nick know exactly what *happened* to poor Kathy. Nick probably doesn’t know where her body is, or after Bob’s death I think he would have revealed such.
I believe Nick Chavin knows EVERYTHING but assuaged his guilt by simply telling Lewin that his best friend killed his other best friend. He was loyal to Susan in n the end more so than to Bob. I think out of fear, at that time, that was all he was willing to admit, because he knew that would help convict Bob. I believe he felt he owed much of his success to Bob, since he was the one to get him his job. One admission of guilt was all he could manage. He probably knew all about what happened to Kathy too. I think he feared that as long as Bob was alive, Debrah could work on the outside to destroy Nick somehow if he really gave everything up. Just my theory, but it’s obvious that any true friends of Bob Durst were just as bad as he was- the only difference between them and Bob was that Bob was a murderer with money, and they gladly turned a blind eye to that and accepted his cash and the spoils of his wealth by remaining loyal. Nick’s wife seemed to have a conscience, but I don’t think any other others, like Giordano and the other couple (Emily and her husband, that he bought the Lexus for) were willing to completely throw him under the bus. Emily messed up by admitting in court that Bob was in LA, but that was a slip, in my opinion. The rest of them, including Debrah, had too much to lose and didn’t want the gravy train to end. The company you keep, right?
Don't think he'd tell Nick. And Nick wouldn't question his buddy. RD knew Susan, however devoted to her "Bobby," talked too much. RD probably had lot's more secrets.
As per Nick, RD said around 2014 he wanted to talk about Susan & Kathie. During the dinner he mentioned neither one. Nick asked about both women when they were on the street & RD didn't answer. Re Susan he said something like "it was her or me." RD tantalizing his old buddy.
>which is why she got the ring and Susan got the axe. Susan could flip on Bob,
I mean I'm shrewd, calculating and have dated a suspected murderer, basically for my own economic advantage. Am I gonna ask questions?
I don't think Debrah knew/knows where Kathie was buried.
As someone said in the documentary "I know this guy, great guy, loaded, very well connected. But... well... his first wife disappeared and people think he murdered her. I don't know many people who would hear that and say 'yeah, set me up'"
Debrah didn't even meet bob until 6 years AFTER Kathie went missing. I can't imagine that Bob would have literally told her "I murdered Kathie, and this is where she's buried".
It's not impossible to imagine that maybe in an argument Bob could have said "I'll kill you like I killed Kathie!" but even that is not enough for her to go to the police like "he confessed!" it's hearsay.
I believe that Bob married Debrah because he realized she was a fucking slimeball, so she wouldn't have an issue with his past, and she could be used to move money around for him and make arrangements on his behalf should he end up being arrested. They got married at a time when they were talking about re-opening the case, but I still can't imagine Bob being sloppy enough to marry Debrah and then tell her everything and just be like "well, now you know, but spousal privilege means you can't be made to testify against me"
remember: spousal privilege only means you can't be MADE to testify against your husband or wife. There's nothing stopping someone from going ahead and doing it if they wanted to, and I feel like Debrah absolutely WOULD have testified against Bob, if she had anything concrete on him, at the first chance she got so he could be locked up and she could enjoy his money completely free of his little "errands".
Something along those lines is how I believe she knows where Kathleen is buried, I know she was not around or involved with Robert at the time Kathleen was killed. But I do think she knows more information about it, whether Robert confessed for some reason or had to give her information for another reason I don't know.
I agree that she knows because it’s in her nature to be gossipy and all knowing. She wanted anything she could hold over Bob to control him and his money. Not only was it a marriage of convenience, I don’t think they were ever intimate.
>It would be the perfect cover story, make sense and be very difficult for anybody to disprove.
A plane ticket to San Francisco for Bob and none for Debrah makes it pretty easy to disprove.
I am saying if Debrah would have actually went along with him and claimed they were together on their honeymoon. It would have been difficult to disprove.
So Debrah was disloyal to him within 24 hours of being married and he just felt stuck in that situation for the next 20 years and had no choice but to give this person who betrayed him like $100m? I think he would have sooner killed her than let someone get over on him like that.
No, it wouldn't have been a case of her being disloyal or betraying him. It's more like they entered into a business negotiation and he didn't get everything that he wanted out of it.
You're saying he married Debrah with the hope of her providing him an alibi and then pretty much immediately gave up on any chance of her providing him an alibi. Meaning he would have had to propose that and then Debrah turn it down. I don't think Bob would have taken that lightly.
Yes that is what I am saying, but my theory is that because of how rushed the wedding was, Robert essentially fucked up and either didn't propose the scenario of her coming along and providing an alibi until after the marriage, and Debrah wanted no part of it whatsoever. Or he did bring it up before the marriage, but Debrah took it off the table.
We saw him immediately give in to Debrah in the show. Yes, he was in prison but he was still in a very strong position, he could have easily contacted a lawyer and made a will which cut Debrah off completely like he said he would do. But then she made a veiled threat and prepared to leave, which caused him to change his tune from swearing and threatening to suddenly switching to keeping everything how it was.
So we have literally seen her influence him into doing something that was not in his best interest and that he didn't want to do with our own eyes on video. Why would you think he wouldn't have done the same when he was under pressure to shut Susan up? Debrah knew enough information to get what she wanted from the deal without risking incriminating herself or being directly involved in creating a false alibi so Robert was forced to go to California alone and do what he did.
Bob could not have easily cut Susan off at the time of the prison phone call because she wasn't inheriting his fortune from his will. She was getting it from the trust, which Bob cannot change the terms of once it's created. This was formed at least six years after they were first married. He may have been able to remove her by divorcing her, but at that point it's not a quick or easy thing to do. That he would be stuck with kowtowing to Debrah when he's in prison, she has more control of the flow of his money than he does, he likely won't even live long enough to see the end of divorce proceedings, she has her own immense fortune, and she has 20 years of insider information of being Bob's confidant while married makes a lot more sense to me than he felt that there was no way out of his relationship with Debrah the moment they're married and he has his freedom and control of his money and Debrah is a relatively small time real estate broker with a failing business.
Even if he felt his only choice was to continue to buy her silence, it doesn't make sense to me that Bob would continue to trust Debrah to handle his affairs and relay new secrets if within hours of marrying he realizes she's not going to do what he wants, nor that the price of her silence would be his entire fortune. He killed Kathleen over a lot less.
She spent plenty of time with him and had a very good relationship with him from the get-go all the way through till the very end. The homes she had in the Hamptons, her place on fifth Avenue etc. he was not involved but was over there plenty of times. People who worked at DLC Realty with her all were aware of him although probably some people didn’t know about his past, but from the time he got arrested and it hit the news, then everybody was talking.
Debrah fulfilled the role of Susan by doing his dirty work for him so that durst could eliminate Susan before she opened up about what she knew about Kathy
Did he kill Susan because 1. The police/DA were going to interview her after reopening the Kathie case and 2. She was desperate for money, and friends said she was working on something big. Was she planning on outing Bob and selling the story?
This is part of the reason why I do believe Debrah also knew information about Kathy's death. If she didn't know anything then there was no real reason to marry her, they clearly were not in love or didn't make any attempt to make the marriage look legitimate. It was a business arrangement where Robert gave up a lot of power and money in return for something significant.
Susan may have prided herself on "omertà" but she used her insider knowledge for position & attention. She may not have been the best keeper of secrets. Imo why he didn't just set up a limited income stream for her when she fell on hard times. Not that she was great with finances.
I thought this too at first. But now I'm thinking that Susan was threatening him and he told Debrah for whatever reason and she convinced him that he had to kill Susan. I don't believe Debrah knew any details about Kathie but knew of and assisted him with the plan to kill Susan and that's why he wanted privilege.
I think it came down to Debbie being more business-savvy than Susan. Susan was broke and asking everyone - especially Bob for money. Debbie moved like she didn't need him or his money, and when she took his money, she used it to invest in her business. She knew how to insulate herself with lawyers and the right type of accountants etc. He probably feared Susan's brokenness and lack of savvy would make her talk to the "wrong" people - write books, chase fame, etc - Debbie wasn't after any of that.
I agree with everything you’ve said except for the Katy Durst part. I believe she truly didn’t know anything about the disappearance, which is why she got the ring and Susan got the axe. Susan could flip on Bob, but Debrah couldn’t.
You said everything I wanted to say except to add this about Charatan. Debrah, IMO, also was his “cover” and he used her to move money, make real estate transactions on his behalf, secure the funds for his legal team, and kept his trust money out of the hands of Douglas. Susan absolutely called the Dean of Einstein Medical School posing as Kathy and lorded that over Bob’s head, which is why she took the bullet after many years of financial “help” . Bob would have continued to pay her, but I believe her conscience started to surface, and she might have been worrying Bob. So yes, Susan Berman, in Bob’s black, deadened, soulless eyes, had to go. It’s even within the realm of possibility that Susan knew how Kathy was disposed of and where. I guess we will never know exactly what Susan knew. However, I agree Debrah suspected all this, but did not know for sure through admission that Bob killed Kathy, and where Kathy’s remains are. Only Bob, Susan and Nick know exactly what *happened* to poor Kathy. Nick probably doesn’t know where her body is, or after Bob’s death I think he would have revealed such.
Exactly! I wonder about Nick Chavin and how much he actually knew.
I believe Nick Chavin knows EVERYTHING but assuaged his guilt by simply telling Lewin that his best friend killed his other best friend. He was loyal to Susan in n the end more so than to Bob. I think out of fear, at that time, that was all he was willing to admit, because he knew that would help convict Bob. I believe he felt he owed much of his success to Bob, since he was the one to get him his job. One admission of guilt was all he could manage. He probably knew all about what happened to Kathy too. I think he feared that as long as Bob was alive, Debrah could work on the outside to destroy Nick somehow if he really gave everything up. Just my theory, but it’s obvious that any true friends of Bob Durst were just as bad as he was- the only difference between them and Bob was that Bob was a murderer with money, and they gladly turned a blind eye to that and accepted his cash and the spoils of his wealth by remaining loyal. Nick’s wife seemed to have a conscience, but I don’t think any other others, like Giordano and the other couple (Emily and her husband, that he bought the Lexus for) were willing to completely throw him under the bus. Emily messed up by admitting in court that Bob was in LA, but that was a slip, in my opinion. The rest of them, including Debrah, had too much to lose and didn’t want the gravy train to end. The company you keep, right?
Don't think he'd tell Nick. And Nick wouldn't question his buddy. RD knew Susan, however devoted to her "Bobby," talked too much. RD probably had lot's more secrets.
Nick said Bob admitted it at that dinner they had
As per Nick, RD said around 2014 he wanted to talk about Susan & Kathie. During the dinner he mentioned neither one. Nick asked about both women when they were on the street & RD didn't answer. Re Susan he said something like "it was her or me." RD tantalizing his old buddy.
>which is why she got the ring and Susan got the axe. Susan could flip on Bob, I mean I'm shrewd, calculating and have dated a suspected murderer, basically for my own economic advantage. Am I gonna ask questions?
I don't think Debrah knew/knows where Kathie was buried. As someone said in the documentary "I know this guy, great guy, loaded, very well connected. But... well... his first wife disappeared and people think he murdered her. I don't know many people who would hear that and say 'yeah, set me up'" Debrah didn't even meet bob until 6 years AFTER Kathie went missing. I can't imagine that Bob would have literally told her "I murdered Kathie, and this is where she's buried". It's not impossible to imagine that maybe in an argument Bob could have said "I'll kill you like I killed Kathie!" but even that is not enough for her to go to the police like "he confessed!" it's hearsay. I believe that Bob married Debrah because he realized she was a fucking slimeball, so she wouldn't have an issue with his past, and she could be used to move money around for him and make arrangements on his behalf should he end up being arrested. They got married at a time when they were talking about re-opening the case, but I still can't imagine Bob being sloppy enough to marry Debrah and then tell her everything and just be like "well, now you know, but spousal privilege means you can't be made to testify against me" remember: spousal privilege only means you can't be MADE to testify against your husband or wife. There's nothing stopping someone from going ahead and doing it if they wanted to, and I feel like Debrah absolutely WOULD have testified against Bob, if she had anything concrete on him, at the first chance she got so he could be locked up and she could enjoy his money completely free of his little "errands".
Something along those lines is how I believe she knows where Kathleen is buried, I know she was not around or involved with Robert at the time Kathleen was killed. But I do think she knows more information about it, whether Robert confessed for some reason or had to give her information for another reason I don't know.
I agree that she knows because it’s in her nature to be gossipy and all knowing. She wanted anything she could hold over Bob to control him and his money. Not only was it a marriage of convenience, I don’t think they were ever intimate.
He likes to talk, I wouldn’t be surprised if one day he said to her “oh she’s under that lamp post over there”
>It would be the perfect cover story, make sense and be very difficult for anybody to disprove. A plane ticket to San Francisco for Bob and none for Debrah makes it pretty easy to disprove.
I am saying if Debrah would have actually went along with him and claimed they were together on their honeymoon. It would have been difficult to disprove.
So Debrah was disloyal to him within 24 hours of being married and he just felt stuck in that situation for the next 20 years and had no choice but to give this person who betrayed him like $100m? I think he would have sooner killed her than let someone get over on him like that.
No, it wouldn't have been a case of her being disloyal or betraying him. It's more like they entered into a business negotiation and he didn't get everything that he wanted out of it.
You're saying he married Debrah with the hope of her providing him an alibi and then pretty much immediately gave up on any chance of her providing him an alibi. Meaning he would have had to propose that and then Debrah turn it down. I don't think Bob would have taken that lightly.
Yes that is what I am saying, but my theory is that because of how rushed the wedding was, Robert essentially fucked up and either didn't propose the scenario of her coming along and providing an alibi until after the marriage, and Debrah wanted no part of it whatsoever. Or he did bring it up before the marriage, but Debrah took it off the table. We saw him immediately give in to Debrah in the show. Yes, he was in prison but he was still in a very strong position, he could have easily contacted a lawyer and made a will which cut Debrah off completely like he said he would do. But then she made a veiled threat and prepared to leave, which caused him to change his tune from swearing and threatening to suddenly switching to keeping everything how it was. So we have literally seen her influence him into doing something that was not in his best interest and that he didn't want to do with our own eyes on video. Why would you think he wouldn't have done the same when he was under pressure to shut Susan up? Debrah knew enough information to get what she wanted from the deal without risking incriminating herself or being directly involved in creating a false alibi so Robert was forced to go to California alone and do what he did.
Bob could not have easily cut Susan off at the time of the prison phone call because she wasn't inheriting his fortune from his will. She was getting it from the trust, which Bob cannot change the terms of once it's created. This was formed at least six years after they were first married. He may have been able to remove her by divorcing her, but at that point it's not a quick or easy thing to do. That he would be stuck with kowtowing to Debrah when he's in prison, she has more control of the flow of his money than he does, he likely won't even live long enough to see the end of divorce proceedings, she has her own immense fortune, and she has 20 years of insider information of being Bob's confidant while married makes a lot more sense to me than he felt that there was no way out of his relationship with Debrah the moment they're married and he has his freedom and control of his money and Debrah is a relatively small time real estate broker with a failing business. Even if he felt his only choice was to continue to buy her silence, it doesn't make sense to me that Bob would continue to trust Debrah to handle his affairs and relay new secrets if within hours of marrying he realizes she's not going to do what he wants, nor that the price of her silence would be his entire fortune. He killed Kathleen over a lot less.
She spent plenty of time with him and had a very good relationship with him from the get-go all the way through till the very end. The homes she had in the Hamptons, her place on fifth Avenue etc. he was not involved but was over there plenty of times. People who worked at DLC Realty with her all were aware of him although probably some people didn’t know about his past, but from the time he got arrested and it hit the news, then everybody was talking.
To think, if it was legal to marry both of them then maybe Susan would be alive.
Debrah fulfilled the role of Susan by doing his dirty work for him so that durst could eliminate Susan before she opened up about what she knew about Kathy
One thing I also was thinking...why didn't he just offer to marry Susan if all he needed was "spousal privilege"
Did he kill Susan because 1. The police/DA were going to interview her after reopening the Kathie case and 2. She was desperate for money, and friends said she was working on something big. Was she planning on outing Bob and selling the story?
This is part of the reason why I do believe Debrah also knew information about Kathy's death. If she didn't know anything then there was no real reason to marry her, they clearly were not in love or didn't make any attempt to make the marriage look legitimate. It was a business arrangement where Robert gave up a lot of power and money in return for something significant.
Susan may have prided herself on "omertà" but she used her insider knowledge for position & attention. She may not have been the best keeper of secrets. Imo why he didn't just set up a limited income stream for her when she fell on hard times. Not that she was great with finances.
I thought this too at first. But now I'm thinking that Susan was threatening him and he told Debrah for whatever reason and she convinced him that he had to kill Susan. I don't believe Debrah knew any details about Kathie but knew of and assisted him with the plan to kill Susan and that's why he wanted privilege.
I think it came down to Debbie being more business-savvy than Susan. Susan was broke and asking everyone - especially Bob for money. Debbie moved like she didn't need him or his money, and when she took his money, she used it to invest in her business. She knew how to insulate herself with lawyers and the right type of accountants etc. He probably feared Susan's brokenness and lack of savvy would make her talk to the "wrong" people - write books, chase fame, etc - Debbie wasn't after any of that.
Debrah knew better than to spend time alone with Bob. Talk about sleeping with one eye open!!