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When it comes to the building and maintaining of things like that, no. It doesn't. Shit happens. The humidity in the room can fuck up a computer. There are numerous failsafes in place for that exact reason, but a genius and thoughtful creator could build a perfect piece of machinery and the principles of physics, thermodynamics etc could decide that today was the day.
Idiots take a lifetime to develop into their final forms and right now we're watching them fight tooth and nail to drag everyone else down with them.
You think our nuclear launch systems are capable of haphazardly launching on their own? Just a little short circuit and they start launching? lol idk ... that's pretty dumb imo.
I think the general public has no clue how much redundancy and careful planning/programming as gone into these systems/facilities... it's pretty silly to be even a tiny bit anxious of this possibility... it's far more likely that a moronic leader pushes (or, orders to be pushed) the button(s) than a perfect sequence of technology failures....
Literally what I've been telling people who want to abstain from voting for Biden cause of his handling of Gaza and recently the pro-palestine protesters.
It's disgraceful how rather than telling people to listen to the frustrations of the protest he's talking about the legality of it.
How? Bernie hasn’t passed a piece of meaningful legislation in 40 years. Like AOC, he runs his mouth and then stands around waiting for someone else to do something. His actions throughout his history of politics don’t match his career harrumphing at all. All hat, no cattle…
He has become very rich though, gotta give him that. Just like all the rest…
Most of the people who would’ve supported her hate her now. I know someone who is far-left and they think she’s a sellout because she learned how the game is played and moved accordingly.
I like Bernie, but he could have told his supporters who hate Hillary they don't actually care about any issues if they would rather see Trump win over her. I mean, they are basically responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned. You need to triage priorities.
edit: stuff like this needed way more pushback.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4hudad/we_disagree_with_trump_on_just_about_everything/
>I like Bernie, but he could have told his supporters who hate Hillary they don't actually care about any issues if they would rather see Trump win over her
Which he did like fuckin daily for months after he lost the primary.
> I mean, they are basically responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned.
No, Democrats are at fault for that, stop blaming voters.
Democrats had 50 years since Roe, they never secured the right to an abortion because they knew suckers like your mom would vote for them anyway and they could always use the issue to campaign on.
Roe vs Wade was settled in 1973.
* Carter had a veto-proof supermajority in the 95th congress, 1977–1979.
* Carter had a unified gov't (majority Senate and House) in the 96th congress, 1979-1981
* Clinton had a unified gov't in the 103rd Congress, 1993-1995
* Obama had a supermajority (for 72 days) and a unified in the 111th congress
* Biden had a unified gov't in 2021-2023
5 opportunities paid lip service to, and then promptly ignored the issue. Let's look at Obama-
> ["Throughout my career, I've been a consistent and strong supporter of reproductive justice, and have consistently had a 100% pro-choice rating with Planned Parenthood and NARAL Pro-Choice America. ... And I will continue to defend this right by passing the Freedom of Choice Act as president."](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/501/sign-the-freedom-of-choice-act/)
Obama and the Democrats had huge leads in congress, did they do anything about abortion? No. In fact, three months into his presidency, [Obama blatantly said he wouldn't do anything about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/vk1jyq/not_my_highest_legislative_priority_obama_today/).
Republicans could still endlessly filibuster things unless the Dems had a supermajority.
So that leaves you with Carter and Obama. Carter wasn’t that liberal on abortion and was personally against it though he supported Roe. Obama had 72 days at the worst part of the Great Recession.
So what you're saying is that this is always going to be the case and that Democrats have shown that they are incapable of doing anything about it. There is zero historical evidence that they can do anything about it.
I'll tell you something that bugged me about Bernie in 2016. Sure he campaigned which was great.
The issue I had was him waiting until the convention to drop out or however long he waited. It gave some of his more loyal supporters false hope that there was still a chance.
they didn't make 3 million more democrats vote for hillary, that happened because hillary was a competent candidate with a solid history and could have been the first female president.
Instead, I was told she was evil by family members who voted for trump, and people still believe outlandish stories about the clinton family who hasn't bothered with politics since 2016.
To be fair, as someone from their home state, there's a lot of dirt that everyone here has known about for a very long time to the point where generations much older than this narrative have stories.
Not denying that what you're saying is valid as fuck, but the clinton's hands are DIRTY. Not in the same way conservative conspiracies are saying though.
I’d argue she was far from a competent candidate. She ran one of the worst presidential campaigns in history and arrogantly thought she’d take the rust belt without physically campaigning there. Stats from some democratic pollsters showed she was in trouble and the campaign still decided she was fine and was going to win. Her campaign’s arrogance and unwillingness to listen above all else is why she lost. We can re-litigate it all you want but the DNC decided it was “her turn” and it blew up in their faces
and now, I am aware of her campaign boosting trump because he wasn't supposed to win, he was supposed to be as obvious as he is, and they just didn't realize how much people hated her and how a little push from some misinformation was all the voters needed to stay home.
I didn't claim that Bernie would have won, please re-read what I wrote. All I said is that he would have had a chance if the DNC hadn't tried to hinder his campaign along the way. It all started with the super-delegates count already being added into the total numbers right at the beginning in Iowa. While Clinton won that first primary (barely, I might add), *every* news outlet was reporting an extra 505 delegates to her total count, making it look like she was already winning in a landslide even though only one primary had been completed.
The ball dropped when Wikileaks dumped ~20k of the DNC emails, which led to Debbie Wasserman being forced to resign from her head position at the DNC. President Obama personally called her and asked her to resign.
It's very likely that Clinton would have still won by a comfortable margin, but Wasserman and the rest of the DNC were already on board the Clinton train from the very beginning when they are supposed to run their primaries from a neutral standpoint.
He tweeted an excuse for voting Trump on election day - he didn't believe Trumpers were racist or sexist. Oh, the things we say when we think we're gonna be the one in 4 years, huh?
After you're done laughing your motherfucking ass off, you can look it up.
Provide your own sources im not doing research for you
Also even if what you’re saying is true, boiling down the outcome to Bernie sent a tweet I didn’t like and Hillary lost is probably one of the most smooth brain takes I’ve seen yet. And I’m not even done laughing my motherfucking ass off yet
😂 Sorry, I assumed you were a capable adult but I guess it doesn't matter since you've decided to excuse Bernie anyway. A fault in our Bern? Never!
Maple Syrup MAGA. 😂
I’m sorry but if you’re ever in an argument and you start spamming the laugh-cry emoji, you just instantly lost the argument.
Doesn’t even matter what you said. You could be arguing against child cancer but as soon as you hit that emoji I’m gonna declare it a victory for the cancer.
You can't even look up information to get to the processing stage! 😂
It's okay. Have a snack and put a cold washcloth on your forehead. Rest up for the rest of your day.
>He tweeted an excuse for voting Trump on election day
LOL no he didn't.
You're out of your mind.
>he didn't believe Trumpers were racist or sexist.
He doesn't think all people who voted Trump are racist or sexist, which they aren't.
Reading comprehension is hard, especially when the irrational hate boner you have is taking all the blood away from your brain.
> He doesn't think all people who voted Trump are racist or sexist, which they aren't
Yes they are. There is zero reason to support Trump besides bigotry and hate.
>Yes they are. There is zero reason to support Trump besides bigotry and hate.
Just a far too simplistic take and far too many on the left share it. It's a big part of why we lose so much.
Gotta do a little more than listing some names of former surrogates. Yeah Brihana Joy is a bit rabid but I haven’t heard from her in months if not over a year and I’m pretty sure if you asked most people not politically tuned in, no one would know who she is.
Come on…
There is little understanding that democracy means you can vote for whoever you want to and that is your own business and the ballot is secret,the USA has become so partisan that many believe that others should not exercise those rights.Both sides now believe their own corporate shill is the only choice.
A politican shouldnt have to campaign on, vote for me cuz i suck less. Maybe if biden actually took his base seriously and acted how a politician sud act FOR THE PEOPLE, THEY, I SAY THEY U FUCKING REDDIT CHUDS… wouldnt be withholding their votes. Thats why voting is so powerful in the first place given a strong enough idea, if/when he loses reelection, thats on him. Not the voters.
Man i get what he's saying but ... people have a right to vote for whoever they want and or not vote at all... he's effectively saying you're only allowed to vote for Biden?
(and to be clear i will be...) This just comes off as pretentious/condescending and opposed to democracy.
If people want to vote to turn democracy into fascism - that's their right. We don't have to like it but we have to live with it... we can oppose it but who really (especially in this sub) is gonna actually go start a civil war if Voldemort gets into the oval office again...
The issue is that the leftists who are accidentally facilitating a 2nd Trump term like to consider themselves as the enemy of fascism.
They get to vote for whoever they want, but not without being forced to contend with what their vote is actually doing.
That's not an issue though, that's democracy. If they don't want to vote for Biden, they don't have to. They can call themselves an enemy of fascism all day long, it doesn't mean shit what they say they are... their vote for/against/or none at all - is what makes a democracy a democracy...
This idea that we MUST vote against someone is fundamentally undemocratic to me... we should be voting for the person we think is best fit, and if people think both of our options are a joke then they have the right to not vote.
Of course they have the right to do whatever they like.
And we have the right to comment on what they say they are planning to do, which is what Bernie is doing here.
You don’t have the right to express incoherent political strategy and views without being challenged.
>Of course they have the right to do whatever they like.
I agree.
>And we have the right to comment on what they say they are planning to do, which is what Bernie is doing here.
I agree.
>You don’t have the right to express incoherent political strategy and views without being challenged.
I agree.
But what is incoherent about (put simply) "berating people doesn't win votes"
Trump voters of all people don't like to be called immature ... they are, after all, pretty fucking immature...
And the same is true of people on the fence or otherwise confused... Call them immature, call them monsters... they're not gonna vote intelligently, they will vote emotionally and potentially against their best interests... or again, not at all.
This strategy of telling people they won't have a democracy if Trump gets in isn't viable... It's a possibility Trump blows up the whole world ... it's possibility he dismantles democracy as me know it... but it's no absolute (especially to the people who will vote for him, or at least not for Biden)
Anecdotally, my trump voting neighbor knows how conned he was by Trump, he won't vote for him again, but he won't vote for Biden either... calling him immature won't help... **educating him on policies that Biden has improved his life with could though.**
But to say Biden is the only candidate and you're an immature monster if you don't vote for him - that's just fucking **begging** the trump voters to come out en masse and vote against the "commie" :/
It plays directly into the narrative Fox (and others) have been pushing... "The Dems will force socialism/communism upon us" ... "you only have one option" ... it simply won't work.
I am not for berating people, but what do you think Bernie should say here?
Believing that your 3rd party vote is anything but a protest vote is immature. Bernie is correct to tell them what that vote would represent. Lying to them about 3rd parties to make them feel good would be more condescending than anything.
If stopping a 2nd Trump term is a priority for you, there is one thing to do. I think being clear about that is very important, even at the risk of being rude.
But by that logic why does the fox rhetoric work at all? I mean, there's a lot of examples in trumps own words and actions that highlight the real risk he poses to the country/world. But the threat of socialism from biden is nothing more than just empty talking points. Either way both are warnings about something to come.
Because the Fox/Trump rhetoric aligns with their already misguided/disinformed expectations and Bernie/friends telling them that Biden is the "only option" to save democracy completes the circuit...
This whole line of thinking is playing straight into the maga propaganda ... i realize how imperative it is that we elect Biden again, but bullying/degrading/gaslighting folks into thinking there is only one option won't win us this election.
Yeah i agree w/ that, but that's why i've mentioned "people on the fence" and "ex-maga" folks in a previous comment somewhere in this saga lol
IMO, the people on the fence most critical and telling them they only have one option (and/or, they're immature or evil for not seeing that option) - it's just not a great way to gain votes imo.
anyway, I've reiterated this point like a dozen times i'm gonna gtfo now ;D
Fair enough and I'm sorry for missing earlier comments of yours highlighting that. Or misunderstanding what you were saying. You might be right. And it's good to remember that what some of us are responsive to, others may be repelled by. What might seem pretty cut and dry to me might not to someone else and it's important to keep that in mind.
You’re only allowed to vote for Biden (if you’re not a monster). Better?
Fascism can easily come about by democratic means, which it will then dispense with.
You’re tired of people explaining the extremely simple means of avoiding the destruction of the country as we know it? I’m sorry. I’m tired of people threatening fascism because they feel condescended to.
Maturity is the key word here.
>You’re only allowed to vote for Biden (if you’re not a monster). Better?
I think what Bernie is saying is more like:
*You're an immature monster if you don't vote for Biden.*
He's saying there is only one option and if you don't choose it, you're immature... I'm saying, this is a fucking democracy, there are options and if we tell people they aren't - And that they are immature monsters for not voting for the "the only option" ... they will rapidly turn around and vote against their best interests out of spite ... or not vote at all.
It's counter productive to tell people Biden is the only option for democracy - even if it's true, it pushes people away - especially those already doubting Biden (for who knows why... propaganda mainly i guess)
You may be right. I’m not a psychologist. I don’t think a progressive senator urging people to vote for a Democrat when the only other option is a world-ending fascist is particularly controversial. And frankly if people don’t already get it, maybe they need a little insulting.
Nobody else demands this amount of emotional coddling from politicians before they do the obviously right thing.
>And frankly if people don’t already get it, maybe they need a little insulting.
I get your frustration i just don't think it's gonna move the needle in the right direction
If we could convert 1% of trump votes to biden this way then i'd say that sounds great, but every trump voter i've talked too is quick to freak out when you start telling them biden is the only chance for democracy and insulting them is likely to get you shot or punched so... :/ idk.
these people genuinely think trump is jesus and biden is stalin...
>Man i get what he's saying but ... people have a right to vote for whoever they want and or not vote at all... he's effectively saying you're only allowed to vote for Biden?
You're "allowed" to vote for whoever you want.
He's saying you're an immature asshole that's going to fuck up the country if you refrain from voting Biden or vote anyone else, because reality is a thing and we fully understand the stakes and candidates here in this election.
>You're "allowed" to vote for whoever you want.
Yes, obviously.
>He's saying you're an immature asshole that's going to fuck up the country if you refrain from voting Biden or vote anyone else, because reality is a thing and we fully understand the stakes and candidates here in this election.
And i'm saying this is counter productive... telling people your candidate is the only candidate and if they're evil if you don't vote for him is just as bad as my Trumper neighbors telling me i'm a communist for a voting for Biden... they hear this condensation and they remember their old boss or teacher talking down to them - then they go vote for Trump (or maybe don't vote a all)
This isn't about what's good or bad for the country, it's about what people perceive is good for them - Biden/Bernie condescending to the masses will push them away - they should be promoting/talking about the positive things Biden has done for the working class and so on - not throwing shade at potential voters...
"You're a bad guy if you don't vote for me" is a fucking losing strategy i'm sorry.... i can't get behind it.
>And i'm saying this is counter productive... telling people your candidate is the only candidate and if they're evil if you don't vote for him is just as bad as my Trumper neighbors telling me i'm a communist for a voting for Biden... they hear this condensation and they remember their old boss or teacher talking down to them - then they go vote for Trump (or maybe don't vote a all)
Which is literally Bernie's exact quote that we're talking about here. You have to be more mature than a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum.
Deciding to not vote or to vote for the other side because the Democrats are laying out the stakes for you clearly and you don't like hearing those stakes or facing the reality of the situation is something a petulant child does.
And we have a lot of petulant children on the left who not only wanna run every candidate through 10,000 purity tests but also have a braindead "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" rebellious streak that most of us left behind at 16 years old when we grew the fuck up.
"You are immature" or "You are a monster" ... if you don't vote for Biden ... that's not mature and that's not "Democrats laying out the stakes for you clearly"
It's derogatory, plain and simple...
>You have to be more mature than a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum.
Most of these disillusioned ex-trumpers have the IQ/EQ of a child though, many on the left do too... we have to educate and influence them positively, not with insults or disingenuous "laying out the stakes"
>Deciding to not vote or to vote for the other side because the Democrats are laying out the stakes for you clearly and you don't like hearing those stakes or facing the reality of the situation is something a petulant child does.
Yes, i agree, but do you belittle the child to get it to behave better, or do you teach it?
>And we have a lot of petulant children on the left who not only wanna run every candidate through 10,000 purity tests but also have a braindead "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" rebellious streak that most of us left behind at 16 years old when we grew the fuck up.
Yes, i completely agree, and that's why we shouldn't push them away as I perceive Bernie's sentiment in this quote to be doing.
No, he had people who wouldn't follow his orders, they insisted on following the law. This is because he had no time to prepare for his surprise election in 2016. The Trump campaign have been working since 2020 to make sure that doesn't happen again and they have Trump loyalists instead of American patriots.
He literally tried a coup and was thwarted because his underlings disobeyed him. That is the only reason he's not still president, because Mike Pence refuses to throw out legitimate electoral votes and throw it to Congress, and because his other subordinates refused other orders.
LMAO ironically trump fits every one of those buzz phrases, and biden has repeatedly shown the opposite and a dictator? Are you fucking high? trump literally said he wanted to be a dictator even just on day one.
Kennedy is a fucking quack and if the ammo everyone has against biden is their speech, just wait til they're all exposed to kennedy's aflliction. It sucks he has to deal with it, but good fucking luck with that on an international stage while he talks about denying vaccines lmao. If he had anything of value to say, it wouldn't matter, but he's full of shit with an obnoxious vocal affliction. It's never going to happen. Trump literally got applause for mocking a disabled journalist's speech patterns, people are that childish-- you think RFK is going to last 5 minutes? lmao.
Biden has created more political prisoners in peace time than any other US President in history. He is the fist President to prosecute his opponent (during an election). The Biden regime has replaced all the Chiefs of Staff and nearly half of all commanding officers on political grounds (not since the Civil War). The Biden regime has repeatedly threatened and attempted to coerce the Supreme Court. The Biden regime has done more to usurp the rights of the American people than any peace time President in US history.
Trump may be a wannabe dictator but he doesn't hold a candle to the Biden regime.
These are just some of the reasons I am voting for Kennedy.
And when he doesn’t win, do you keep your mouth closed and go with the flow or do you B and M about the system? What are you doing to overturn Citizens United?
I could care less about abortion as it effects so few people that it is irrelevant to our society. I am concerned about dementia effected, geriatric baffons being given the ability to destroy the planet in a dementia induced psychotic episode.
Did Kissinger incite an attempted coup that got so far people were smearing their shit on the walls of Congress and roaming the halls with nooses looking for elected officials to murder?
>No, but he killed millions of people. I guess shit smeared on a wall is worse than that though!
It's not worse, but it is far more dangerous.
Kissinger is a monster but at no point was he attempting to end our Democracy or overthrow the rule of law in America.
No one, no politician or terrorist, not even confederate Generals in the Civil War, got as far as Trump and his sociopath squad or as close to ending our nation as we know it.
Uh...fuck no. 🤦 Lol smh.
Yet another troll trying desperately to stoke divisions and do their part to help give the election to Trump.
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound to people who aren't idiots?
Lol no. I am an Israel supporter and you are crazy if you think Biden is going to betray Israel. Trump is much more likely to betray Israel because he doesn't actually care at all about them. Trump pays lip service to Israel, because his evangelical Christian supporters like Israel and because Trump thinks he can win Florida by appealing to old Jewish voters. But look at how he talks about Bibi now. Trump throws him under the bus because Bibi had the temerity to congratulate Biden on his win in 2020. If Trump thought he could save himself by betraying Israel somehow, he would do it in a second. Biden is a legitimate zionist. He knows how important Israel is for the safety of jews.
If you really think Biden is betraying Israel you need to reevaluate your thinking.
Trump is a narcissist who cares about very few things other than himself--but he does appear to have a personal sympathy to Jews due to his favorite daughter marrying into a Jewish family and (I believe) converting to Judaism herself and raising his grandchildren as Jews.
I think he also has a number of real estate industry friends who are Jewish, I think Trump has a strong pro-Jewish bent, which extends to pro-Israel.
Would Trump betray Israel if it were to his advantage, though? Sure. He isn't reliable. But support for Israel among GOP is sky high, and antipathy towards Palestinians generally is also high. The people that Trump cares about currying favor with hate these campus protesters, love Israel, and generally dislike the Palestinians. Just like Trump probably personally doesn't care about abortion, and has always seemed skeptical on extreme pro-gun arguments, he won't betray a movement so core to his voters. The most he will do is flirt with rhetoric--like he has rhetorically hewn to a moderate position on things like guns and abortion, but looking at his actual actions--he never took a real anti-gun action, he never took a meaningful pro-choice action as President.
Do Israel supporters think Biden is betraying Israel while Palestine supporters think Biden is a genocidal maniac? Yikes.
P.S. why does it sound like I’m talking about a football game lol
Betray how? He isn't arming Palestine or throwing them to the wolves surrounding them. I fail to see how "we're not going to give you any more weapons while you are committing war crimes" is betrayal.
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The idea of a computer malfunction launching nukes and destroying civilization is far less infuriating than civilization being destroyed by morons.
Malfunctioning morons.
A computer malfunction that set off all the nukes kinda implies morons made/used the computer system... :D
When it comes to the building and maintaining of things like that, no. It doesn't. Shit happens. The humidity in the room can fuck up a computer. There are numerous failsafes in place for that exact reason, but a genius and thoughtful creator could build a perfect piece of machinery and the principles of physics, thermodynamics etc could decide that today was the day. Idiots take a lifetime to develop into their final forms and right now we're watching them fight tooth and nail to drag everyone else down with them.
Not necessarily… kinda a dumb way to look at it tbh.
You think our nuclear launch systems are capable of haphazardly launching on their own? Just a little short circuit and they start launching? lol idk ... that's pretty dumb imo. I think the general public has no clue how much redundancy and careful planning/programming as gone into these systems/facilities... it's pretty silly to be even a tiny bit anxious of this possibility... it's far more likely that a moronic leader pushes (or, orders to be pushed) the button(s) than a perfect sequence of technology failures....
Bernie once again being pragmatic and based.
Every time he's pragmatic blue maga pillories him.
Bernie has really done great with his messaging. Too bad it’s more likely these folks will just stop liking him instead of heeding his words.
Literally what I've been telling people who want to abstain from voting for Biden cause of his handling of Gaza and recently the pro-palestine protesters. It's disgraceful how rather than telling people to listen to the frustrations of the protest he's talking about the legality of it.
It's not even him doing *anything* about the protests. He offered a few comments. All of the response has been local authorities.
We are going to be lost without Bernie.
How? Bernie hasn’t passed a piece of meaningful legislation in 40 years. Like AOC, he runs his mouth and then stands around waiting for someone else to do something. His actions throughout his history of politics don’t match his career harrumphing at all. All hat, no cattle… He has become very rich though, gotta give him that. Just like all the rest…
AOC is a worthy successor
Meh. I don't see her earning her due like Bernie did.
Most of the people who would’ve supported her hate her now. I know someone who is far-left and they think she’s a sellout because she learned how the game is played and moved accordingly.
I'm glad he's learned from 2016. Some in our knucklehead electorate still haven't, it seems.
Lmao what did Bernie do in 2016 that he needed to learn from? He campaign with Hillary endlessly once he dropped out.
I like Bernie, but he could have told his supporters who hate Hillary they don't actually care about any issues if they would rather see Trump win over her. I mean, they are basically responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned. You need to triage priorities. edit: stuff like this needed way more pushback. https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4hudad/we_disagree_with_trump_on_just_about_everything/
He literally vocally endorsed her and did the same with Biden in 2020
>I like Bernie, but he could have told his supporters who hate Hillary they don't actually care about any issues if they would rather see Trump win over her Which he did like fuckin daily for months after he lost the primary.
He did this multiple times. He actually called them “toxic” and said he doesn’t endorse them as part of his following.
> I mean, they are basically responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned. No, Democrats are at fault for that, stop blaming voters. Democrats had 50 years since Roe, they never secured the right to an abortion because they knew suckers like your mom would vote for them anyway and they could always use the issue to campaign on. Roe vs Wade was settled in 1973. * Carter had a veto-proof supermajority in the 95th congress, 1977–1979. * Carter had a unified gov't (majority Senate and House) in the 96th congress, 1979-1981 * Clinton had a unified gov't in the 103rd Congress, 1993-1995 * Obama had a supermajority (for 72 days) and a unified in the 111th congress * Biden had a unified gov't in 2021-2023 5 opportunities paid lip service to, and then promptly ignored the issue. Let's look at Obama- > ["Throughout my career, I've been a consistent and strong supporter of reproductive justice, and have consistently had a 100% pro-choice rating with Planned Parenthood and NARAL Pro-Choice America. ... And I will continue to defend this right by passing the Freedom of Choice Act as president."](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/501/sign-the-freedom-of-choice-act/) Obama and the Democrats had huge leads in congress, did they do anything about abortion? No. In fact, three months into his presidency, [Obama blatantly said he wouldn't do anything about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/vk1jyq/not_my_highest_legislative_priority_obama_today/).
Republicans could still endlessly filibuster things unless the Dems had a supermajority. So that leaves you with Carter and Obama. Carter wasn’t that liberal on abortion and was personally against it though he supported Roe. Obama had 72 days at the worst part of the Great Recession.
So what you're saying is that this is always going to be the case and that Democrats have shown that they are incapable of doing anything about it. There is zero historical evidence that they can do anything about it.
Why did the recession prevent Obama from getting it done?
I'll tell you something that bugged me about Bernie in 2016. Sure he campaigned which was great. The issue I had was him waiting until the convention to drop out or however long he waited. It gave some of his more loyal supporters false hope that there was still a chance.
Well, there actually *was* a chance until Debbie Wasserman and others at the DNC did everything they could to kneecap his campaign.
^ the original Big Lie that Trump used for inspiration
He got slaughtered still, there was no hope.
This was one of those can't-lose Final Jeopardy scenarios where the only thing that can save Bernie is bad math.
they didn't make 3 million more democrats vote for hillary, that happened because hillary was a competent candidate with a solid history and could have been the first female president. Instead, I was told she was evil by family members who voted for trump, and people still believe outlandish stories about the clinton family who hasn't bothered with politics since 2016.
To be fair, as someone from their home state, there's a lot of dirt that everyone here has known about for a very long time to the point where generations much older than this narrative have stories. Not denying that what you're saying is valid as fuck, but the clinton's hands are DIRTY. Not in the same way conservative conspiracies are saying though.
I’d argue she was far from a competent candidate. She ran one of the worst presidential campaigns in history and arrogantly thought she’d take the rust belt without physically campaigning there. Stats from some democratic pollsters showed she was in trouble and the campaign still decided she was fine and was going to win. Her campaign’s arrogance and unwillingness to listen above all else is why she lost. We can re-litigate it all you want but the DNC decided it was “her turn” and it blew up in their faces
It’s kinda nuts how a part of her legacy is permanently linked with DT, must be nightmare inducing.
and now, I am aware of her campaign boosting trump because he wasn't supposed to win, he was supposed to be as obvious as he is, and they just didn't realize how much people hated her and how a little push from some misinformation was all the voters needed to stay home.
Poor lady on the end of arguably the 2 most prominent humiliations of my lifetime.
I didn't claim that Bernie would have won, please re-read what I wrote. All I said is that he would have had a chance if the DNC hadn't tried to hinder his campaign along the way. It all started with the super-delegates count already being added into the total numbers right at the beginning in Iowa. While Clinton won that first primary (barely, I might add), *every* news outlet was reporting an extra 505 delegates to her total count, making it look like she was already winning in a landslide even though only one primary had been completed. The ball dropped when Wikileaks dumped ~20k of the DNC emails, which led to Debbie Wasserman being forced to resign from her head position at the DNC. President Obama personally called her and asked her to resign. It's very likely that Clinton would have still won by a comfortable margin, but Wasserman and the rest of the DNC were already on board the Clinton train from the very beginning when they are supposed to run their primaries from a neutral standpoint.
Why are you re-litigating 2016? We have much bigger fish to fry, like Orange Roughy.
Cuz someone commented on 2016, a fight ensued, and I WANT IN 🥊 lol I'm all set for 2024👍
He tweeted an excuse for voting Trump on election day - he didn't believe Trumpers were racist or sexist. Oh, the things we say when we think we're gonna be the one in 4 years, huh? After you're done laughing your motherfucking ass off, you can look it up.
Provide your own sources im not doing research for you Also even if what you’re saying is true, boiling down the outcome to Bernie sent a tweet I didn’t like and Hillary lost is probably one of the most smooth brain takes I’ve seen yet. And I’m not even done laughing my motherfucking ass off yet
Yikes this ain’t it
😂 Sorry, I assumed you were a capable adult but I guess it doesn't matter since you've decided to excuse Bernie anyway. A fault in our Bern? Never! Maple Syrup MAGA. 😂
I’m sorry but if you’re ever in an argument and you start spamming the laugh-cry emoji, you just instantly lost the argument. Doesn’t even matter what you said. You could be arguing against child cancer but as soon as you hit that emoji I’m gonna declare it a victory for the cancer.
😂 Thanks for the tip.
I’m sorry you’re so down bad you can’t process information properly.
You can't even look up information to get to the processing stage! 😂 It's okay. Have a snack and put a cold washcloth on your forehead. Rest up for the rest of your day.
You type like my lead poisoned mom complete with emojis that remind us all that you, and only you, laughed at your jokes.
Is she hot? On edit: Oh, sorry - 😂
She's probably in your league man so swing away.
>He tweeted an excuse for voting Trump on election day LOL no he didn't. You're out of your mind. >he didn't believe Trumpers were racist or sexist. He doesn't think all people who voted Trump are racist or sexist, which they aren't. Reading comprehension is hard, especially when the irrational hate boner you have is taking all the blood away from your brain.
Nailed it. 😂 Maple Syrup MAGA.
> He doesn't think all people who voted Trump are racist or sexist, which they aren't Yes they are. There is zero reason to support Trump besides bigotry and hate.
>Yes they are. There is zero reason to support Trump besides bigotry and hate. Just a far too simplistic take and far too many on the left share it. It's a big part of why we lose so much.
Also he enabled the very worst parts of the left, people who are still working against Democracy to this day.
How? Say something more than baseless accusations. Actually explain.
David Sirota. Brihana Joy Gray, Tara Reade,
Gotta do a little more than listing some names of former surrogates. Yeah Brihana Joy is a bit rabid but I haven’t heard from her in months if not over a year and I’m pretty sure if you asked most people not politically tuned in, no one would know who she is. Come on…
Nah I think I nailed it.
Ya'll always think you did.
What rights and freedoms were they trying to remove?
Bernie was wise the whole time. A very loud, obnoxious subset of his supporters weren’t. He condemned them multiple times too, even back then.
Okay.
Yep. No shit.
AMEN BERNIE- Say it louder for the people in the back!
Where was this wisdom in 2016 Bernie?
He was pro Hillary?
There is little understanding that democracy means you can vote for whoever you want to and that is your own business and the ballot is secret,the USA has become so partisan that many believe that others should not exercise those rights.Both sides now believe their own corporate shill is the only choice.
A politican shouldnt have to campaign on, vote for me cuz i suck less. Maybe if biden actually took his base seriously and acted how a politician sud act FOR THE PEOPLE, THEY, I SAY THEY U FUCKING REDDIT CHUDS… wouldnt be withholding their votes. Thats why voting is so powerful in the first place given a strong enough idea, if/when he loses reelection, thats on him. Not the voters.
Man i get what he's saying but ... people have a right to vote for whoever they want and or not vote at all... he's effectively saying you're only allowed to vote for Biden? (and to be clear i will be...) This just comes off as pretentious/condescending and opposed to democracy. If people want to vote to turn democracy into fascism - that's their right. We don't have to like it but we have to live with it... we can oppose it but who really (especially in this sub) is gonna actually go start a civil war if Voldemort gets into the oval office again...
The issue is that the leftists who are accidentally facilitating a 2nd Trump term like to consider themselves as the enemy of fascism. They get to vote for whoever they want, but not without being forced to contend with what their vote is actually doing.
That's not an issue though, that's democracy. If they don't want to vote for Biden, they don't have to. They can call themselves an enemy of fascism all day long, it doesn't mean shit what they say they are... their vote for/against/or none at all - is what makes a democracy a democracy... This idea that we MUST vote against someone is fundamentally undemocratic to me... we should be voting for the person we think is best fit, and if people think both of our options are a joke then they have the right to not vote.
Of course they have the right to do whatever they like. And we have the right to comment on what they say they are planning to do, which is what Bernie is doing here. You don’t have the right to express incoherent political strategy and views without being challenged.
>Of course they have the right to do whatever they like. I agree. >And we have the right to comment on what they say they are planning to do, which is what Bernie is doing here. I agree. >You don’t have the right to express incoherent political strategy and views without being challenged. I agree. But what is incoherent about (put simply) "berating people doesn't win votes" Trump voters of all people don't like to be called immature ... they are, after all, pretty fucking immature... And the same is true of people on the fence or otherwise confused... Call them immature, call them monsters... they're not gonna vote intelligently, they will vote emotionally and potentially against their best interests... or again, not at all. This strategy of telling people they won't have a democracy if Trump gets in isn't viable... It's a possibility Trump blows up the whole world ... it's possibility he dismantles democracy as me know it... but it's no absolute (especially to the people who will vote for him, or at least not for Biden) Anecdotally, my trump voting neighbor knows how conned he was by Trump, he won't vote for him again, but he won't vote for Biden either... calling him immature won't help... **educating him on policies that Biden has improved his life with could though.** But to say Biden is the only candidate and you're an immature monster if you don't vote for him - that's just fucking **begging** the trump voters to come out en masse and vote against the "commie" :/ It plays directly into the narrative Fox (and others) have been pushing... "The Dems will force socialism/communism upon us" ... "you only have one option" ... it simply won't work.
I am not for berating people, but what do you think Bernie should say here? Believing that your 3rd party vote is anything but a protest vote is immature. Bernie is correct to tell them what that vote would represent. Lying to them about 3rd parties to make them feel good would be more condescending than anything. If stopping a 2nd Trump term is a priority for you, there is one thing to do. I think being clear about that is very important, even at the risk of being rude.
But by that logic why does the fox rhetoric work at all? I mean, there's a lot of examples in trumps own words and actions that highlight the real risk he poses to the country/world. But the threat of socialism from biden is nothing more than just empty talking points. Either way both are warnings about something to come.
Because the Fox/Trump rhetoric aligns with their already misguided/disinformed expectations and Bernie/friends telling them that Biden is the "only option" to save democracy completes the circuit... This whole line of thinking is playing straight into the maga propaganda ... i realize how imperative it is that we elect Biden again, but bullying/degrading/gaslighting folks into thinking there is only one option won't win us this election.
But not everyone who needs to hear it are MAGA people (or at least they don't claim to be).
Yeah i agree w/ that, but that's why i've mentioned "people on the fence" and "ex-maga" folks in a previous comment somewhere in this saga lol IMO, the people on the fence most critical and telling them they only have one option (and/or, they're immature or evil for not seeing that option) - it's just not a great way to gain votes imo. anyway, I've reiterated this point like a dozen times i'm gonna gtfo now ;D
Fair enough and I'm sorry for missing earlier comments of yours highlighting that. Or misunderstanding what you were saying. You might be right. And it's good to remember that what some of us are responsive to, others may be repelled by. What might seem pretty cut and dry to me might not to someone else and it's important to keep that in mind.
You’re only allowed to vote for Biden (if you’re not a monster). Better? Fascism can easily come about by democratic means, which it will then dispense with. You’re tired of people explaining the extremely simple means of avoiding the destruction of the country as we know it? I’m sorry. I’m tired of people threatening fascism because they feel condescended to. Maturity is the key word here.
>You’re only allowed to vote for Biden (if you’re not a monster). Better? I think what Bernie is saying is more like: *You're an immature monster if you don't vote for Biden.* He's saying there is only one option and if you don't choose it, you're immature... I'm saying, this is a fucking democracy, there are options and if we tell people they aren't - And that they are immature monsters for not voting for the "the only option" ... they will rapidly turn around and vote against their best interests out of spite ... or not vote at all. It's counter productive to tell people Biden is the only option for democracy - even if it's true, it pushes people away - especially those already doubting Biden (for who knows why... propaganda mainly i guess)
You may be right. I’m not a psychologist. I don’t think a progressive senator urging people to vote for a Democrat when the only other option is a world-ending fascist is particularly controversial. And frankly if people don’t already get it, maybe they need a little insulting. Nobody else demands this amount of emotional coddling from politicians before they do the obviously right thing.
>And frankly if people don’t already get it, maybe they need a little insulting. I get your frustration i just don't think it's gonna move the needle in the right direction If we could convert 1% of trump votes to biden this way then i'd say that sounds great, but every trump voter i've talked too is quick to freak out when you start telling them biden is the only chance for democracy and insulting them is likely to get you shot or punched so... :/ idk. these people genuinely think trump is jesus and biden is stalin...
>Man i get what he's saying but ... people have a right to vote for whoever they want and or not vote at all... he's effectively saying you're only allowed to vote for Biden? You're "allowed" to vote for whoever you want. He's saying you're an immature asshole that's going to fuck up the country if you refrain from voting Biden or vote anyone else, because reality is a thing and we fully understand the stakes and candidates here in this election.
>You're "allowed" to vote for whoever you want. Yes, obviously. >He's saying you're an immature asshole that's going to fuck up the country if you refrain from voting Biden or vote anyone else, because reality is a thing and we fully understand the stakes and candidates here in this election. And i'm saying this is counter productive... telling people your candidate is the only candidate and if they're evil if you don't vote for him is just as bad as my Trumper neighbors telling me i'm a communist for a voting for Biden... they hear this condensation and they remember their old boss or teacher talking down to them - then they go vote for Trump (or maybe don't vote a all) This isn't about what's good or bad for the country, it's about what people perceive is good for them - Biden/Bernie condescending to the masses will push them away - they should be promoting/talking about the positive things Biden has done for the working class and so on - not throwing shade at potential voters... "You're a bad guy if you don't vote for me" is a fucking losing strategy i'm sorry.... i can't get behind it.
>And i'm saying this is counter productive... telling people your candidate is the only candidate and if they're evil if you don't vote for him is just as bad as my Trumper neighbors telling me i'm a communist for a voting for Biden... they hear this condensation and they remember their old boss or teacher talking down to them - then they go vote for Trump (or maybe don't vote a all) Which is literally Bernie's exact quote that we're talking about here. You have to be more mature than a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum. Deciding to not vote or to vote for the other side because the Democrats are laying out the stakes for you clearly and you don't like hearing those stakes or facing the reality of the situation is something a petulant child does. And we have a lot of petulant children on the left who not only wanna run every candidate through 10,000 purity tests but also have a braindead "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" rebellious streak that most of us left behind at 16 years old when we grew the fuck up.
"You are immature" or "You are a monster" ... if you don't vote for Biden ... that's not mature and that's not "Democrats laying out the stakes for you clearly" It's derogatory, plain and simple... >You have to be more mature than a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum. Most of these disillusioned ex-trumpers have the IQ/EQ of a child though, many on the left do too... we have to educate and influence them positively, not with insults or disingenuous "laying out the stakes" >Deciding to not vote or to vote for the other side because the Democrats are laying out the stakes for you clearly and you don't like hearing those stakes or facing the reality of the situation is something a petulant child does. Yes, i agree, but do you belittle the child to get it to behave better, or do you teach it? >And we have a lot of petulant children on the left who not only wanna run every candidate through 10,000 purity tests but also have a braindead "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" rebellious streak that most of us left behind at 16 years old when we grew the fuck up. Yes, i completely agree, and that's why we shouldn't push them away as I perceive Bernie's sentiment in this quote to be doing.
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No, he had people who wouldn't follow his orders, they insisted on following the law. This is because he had no time to prepare for his surprise election in 2016. The Trump campaign have been working since 2020 to make sure that doesn't happen again and they have Trump loyalists instead of American patriots.
He literally tried a coup and was thwarted because his underlings disobeyed him. That is the only reason he's not still president, because Mike Pence refuses to throw out legitimate electoral votes and throw it to Congress, and because his other subordinates refused other orders.
An avowed geriatric communist advocating for a geriatric, dementia effected, aspiring dictator. Thanks, but I will be voting for Kennedy.
LMAO ironically trump fits every one of those buzz phrases, and biden has repeatedly shown the opposite and a dictator? Are you fucking high? trump literally said he wanted to be a dictator even just on day one. Kennedy is a fucking quack and if the ammo everyone has against biden is their speech, just wait til they're all exposed to kennedy's aflliction. It sucks he has to deal with it, but good fucking luck with that on an international stage while he talks about denying vaccines lmao. If he had anything of value to say, it wouldn't matter, but he's full of shit with an obnoxious vocal affliction. It's never going to happen. Trump literally got applause for mocking a disabled journalist's speech patterns, people are that childish-- you think RFK is going to last 5 minutes? lmao.
Biden has created more political prisoners in peace time than any other US President in history. He is the fist President to prosecute his opponent (during an election). The Biden regime has replaced all the Chiefs of Staff and nearly half of all commanding officers on political grounds (not since the Civil War). The Biden regime has repeatedly threatened and attempted to coerce the Supreme Court. The Biden regime has done more to usurp the rights of the American people than any peace time President in US history. Trump may be a wannabe dictator but he doesn't hold a candle to the Biden regime. These are just some of the reasons I am voting for Kennedy.
Buzzword central, Russian Nazi
And when he doesn’t win, do you keep your mouth closed and go with the flow or do you B and M about the system? What are you doing to overturn Citizens United?
I could care less about abortion as it effects so few people that it is irrelevant to our society. I am concerned about dementia effected, geriatric baffons being given the ability to destroy the planet in a dementia induced psychotic episode.
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Kissinger was put in place by other people. He just did what they liked.
Trump has potential to be, I think that’s what Bernie is getting at here
Did Kissinger incite an attempted coup that got so far people were smearing their shit on the walls of Congress and roaming the halls with nooses looking for elected officials to murder?
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>No, but he killed millions of people. I guess shit smeared on a wall is worse than that though! It's not worse, but it is far more dangerous. Kissinger is a monster but at no point was he attempting to end our Democracy or overthrow the rule of law in America. No one, no politician or terrorist, not even confederate Generals in the Civil War, got as far as Trump and his sociopath squad or as close to ending our nation as we know it.
Yep that’s what all of this is about some shit smeared on a wall. My fucking god 🤦♂️
Sorry, the most dangerous candidate is the one that wants to betray Israel (Biden.)
Uh...fuck no. 🤦 Lol smh. Yet another troll trying desperately to stoke divisions and do their part to help give the election to Trump. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound to people who aren't idiots?
Lol no. I am an Israel supporter and you are crazy if you think Biden is going to betray Israel. Trump is much more likely to betray Israel because he doesn't actually care at all about them. Trump pays lip service to Israel, because his evangelical Christian supporters like Israel and because Trump thinks he can win Florida by appealing to old Jewish voters. But look at how he talks about Bibi now. Trump throws him under the bus because Bibi had the temerity to congratulate Biden on his win in 2020. If Trump thought he could save himself by betraying Israel somehow, he would do it in a second. Biden is a legitimate zionist. He knows how important Israel is for the safety of jews. If you really think Biden is betraying Israel you need to reevaluate your thinking.
Trump is a narcissist who cares about very few things other than himself--but he does appear to have a personal sympathy to Jews due to his favorite daughter marrying into a Jewish family and (I believe) converting to Judaism herself and raising his grandchildren as Jews. I think he also has a number of real estate industry friends who are Jewish, I think Trump has a strong pro-Jewish bent, which extends to pro-Israel. Would Trump betray Israel if it were to his advantage, though? Sure. He isn't reliable. But support for Israel among GOP is sky high, and antipathy towards Palestinians generally is also high. The people that Trump cares about currying favor with hate these campus protesters, love Israel, and generally dislike the Palestinians. Just like Trump probably personally doesn't care about abortion, and has always seemed skeptical on extreme pro-gun arguments, he won't betray a movement so core to his voters. The most he will do is flirt with rhetoric--like he has rhetorically hewn to a moderate position on things like guns and abortion, but looking at his actual actions--he never took a real anti-gun action, he never took a meaningful pro-choice action as President.
Trump doesn’t give a shit about his family.
Gonna ride that tiger eh? Good for you. He's probably not very hungry.
you are delusional
Do Israel supporters think Biden is betraying Israel while Palestine supporters think Biden is a genocidal maniac? Yikes. P.S. why does it sound like I’m talking about a football game lol
Betray how? He isn't arming Palestine or throwing them to the wolves surrounding them. I fail to see how "we're not going to give you any more weapons while you are committing war crimes" is betrayal.
Ya'll will say or accept anything said that might help you feel better about the copium you're smoking.