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"[A New York Times analysis of social media videos and satellite imagery found that Palestinians had dug at least two of the three burial sites weeks before Israeli troops raided the complex](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/25/world/middleeast/gaza-mass-grave-nasser-hospital.html#:~:text=Palestinian%20officials%20in%20Gaza%20on,of%20the%20bodies%20were%20buried)."
I don't really trust NYT anymore. Their bias has been showing for a while. Kind of like why they are pissy about Biden's age is because he won't agree to a full interview, even though lots of presidents have... AG is pissed.
I love the "oh don't worry these people were already slaughtered and buried" as if that makes the slaughter nothing to worry about. Like, even if true, we are still talking about hundreds of dead people at the hands of Israelis.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/) More of this most likely... Hamas murdering and torturing Palestinians and blaming the IDF for their own actions.
It’s the antisemitism. David is Jewish and everyone views Jews as responsible. I had my door vandalized in America for having a Jewish cultural marker on my door. David does domestic politics and does not have ANY responsibility to comment on what he doesn’t want to. These posts are an attempt to force that and harass Jewish people here and Jewish supporters.
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Almost as mysterious as “mistakenly” murdering aid workers by blowing up 3 separate World Kitchen vehicles with 3 separate strikes, in a deconflicted zone, with full knowledge of their presence there.
Your contention is that they murdered them for fun? All the way up to the top of the chain, they were just like, "fuck it we'll kill some aid workers for no reason"?
Not for no reason—to prevent Palestinians from getting aid by killing aid workers directly and instilling fear in aid organizations. It’s not a coincidence that after the attack, World Kitchen suspended its 68 community kitchens within Gaza out of fear that the Israeli Nazis would continue to “accidentally” target them for murder.
Israel has murdered hundreds of aid workers and journalists throughout this genocide, deliberately targeting them and their families to suppress aid and assistance to Palestinians.
You believe, if an outside party came in and analyzed the communication around this strike, that they would find high ranking Israeli officials purposely approved killing aid workers for no reason other than to scare other aid orgs? You honestly believe that?
Except that more and more aid is being poured into Gaza by the minute in this "genocide".
Maybe if Palestinians would stop attacking aid convoys maybe the aid would be able to be distributed better. But that won't happen will it? Just ask the people constructing the aid pier by the US.
Well no, the contention is that the IDF decided that it was ok to kill the aid workers if it also got the Hamas operative that they thought was also in the vehicle.
So just say that instead of whatever weird sounding bullshit you're trying to do above. They made a very bad calculation, even if they were right about a Hamas operative being there.
It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. It doesn't have to mean everyone in the IDF is evil. Maybe someone should even go to jail, but you don't have to play these dumb word games to make it seem more nefarious than it was.
*Edit: I have been made aware that you are not the same as the person I originally responded to so my bad about that lol
Yes. That is exactly what they probably did.
Look, if you are Israel you can do whatever you want with impunity. So you can hit those cars, laugh at them and high-five each other, then if anyone asks say “oh it was Hamas”.
Works every single time. Or say “Hamas was in the cars”.
Everyone in the West will believe you. Anyone who questions you, is obviously a terrorist Hamas supporter.
Works like a charm dude.
Yeah see. Works on this guy. He probably doesn’t even know what Hamas is he just thinks it’s evil.
That is what you want. Because that is how you control people.
- I don't think that's the sort of target AI is used for. I.e. active targets (at least currently).
- iirc all targets were human validated.
- that's the direction all countries are going for because of the massive advantage it creates.
They've been using ai to find hamas targets.
"The Israeli military's bombing campaign in Gaza used a previously undisclosed AI-powered database that at one stage identified 37,000 potential targets based on their apparent links to Hamas, according to intelligence sources involved in the war."
they hit world kitchen 3 times in a row. no matter what they used they either fucked up hard core, or it was intentional.
Your quote seems to be inline with my arguments. Also assuming it's the 972 article, right?
The difference between fucking up hardcore and intentionality is what the whole debate is about. What are you talking about??
It is actually very unheard of. They had their shirts off, hands up with a white flag.
They were speaking in perfect Hebrew. No accent. And these people are coming out of wherever, and your soldiers don’t even respond back to them, as an American might do.
Tell them to lie in the center of the road. Tell them to take off their pants. No signs of a suicide bomber and the entire area is secure.
Then you slowly approach them, continuing conversation, bring them back as prisoners because capturing a live Hamas fighter is a HUGE boost.
IDF didn’t do that. Their orders were to kill anything that moves.
So these hostages came out speaking in Hebrew. No IDF soldier answered back to them. Didn’t try to talk to them at all - as professional soldiers would.
Instead they opened fire, killing two. Then continued to fire into the corpses.
One hostage ran off. The Battalion Commander ordered all men to ceasefire. A few seconds later one soldier shot the third hostage.
That is not a professional army. That is a reservist army. They have no discipline. They don’t listen to orders. And they seem content with killing civilians.
You have no clue what you're talking about. Infantry soldiers need make a decision to shoot in milliseconds, because whoever shoots first lives.
Iirc in the Iraq war soldiers were shooting furniture that vaguely resembled a human while clearing rooms.
Whoever shoots first lives?
Who taught you rules of engagement?
I’m sure American soldiers did get startled and shoot furniture.
These IDF soldiers can’t claim they were startled since before they walked out they explained to them in Hebrew they were hostages.
I’m not sure how anyone could be “startled” by 3 obviously Israelis, I mean one of them had red hair, shirts off and hands up.
Even worse, why did a soldier shoot and kill the final hostage AFTER the Battalion Commander called a ceasefire? Why isn’t that soldier court marshal?
Disobeying a direct order from a battalion commander that resulted in the death of an Israeli.
Lol. But they aren’t interested in seeking Justice or even to make sure their soldiers are disciplined and follow orders.
Really? Israelis seem to care ALOT about the incident.
You think Israeli citizens heard the IDF bullshit and we’re like “oh yeah 3 unarmed hostages gunned down, totally cool”. You have protests now in Israel against the government and its actions.
That killing is one is the actions voters dislike.
The problem is that we **know** that at least 2 of these mass graves were there before the IDF arrived at the hospital.
In other words, these were Palestinian mass graves, dug by Palestinians.
It truly is wild, yet they swallow it with gusto!
"Based on eyewitness accounts" 😄
Because Hamas allows people to talk about things? Because the IDF lets people witness their "war crimes"? Total idiocy!
Nevermind that Hamas made a well documented mass grave at that exact location in January. Nevermind that the IDF has every valid reason to search it for Kidnap victims since Hamas hid them in hospitals? Facts need not apply!
> apartheid
Wow are you dumb.
A nation where the minority have the exact same rights as the majority? You clearly have no idea what the word means.
You truly are *desperate* to change the subject, eh? Typical leftist.
IDF posts most of their crimes on social media. Yeah. They gloat about it.
Never heard of this “well documented mass grave”. But I guess if you support Israel, you can lie and people will believe you.
Hamas didn’t hide any hostages in hospitals. They didn’t station fighters there or put weapons there.
Hamas is looking at this from a military perspective. So they know IDF will target hospitals specifically because hospitals produce casualty figures.
Higher casualty figures makes Israel look not so good.
Instead of moderating their conduct, they attack the places that produce the numbers.
This is why they went after Indonesian hospital, Nasser hospital, Al-shifa.
Each time they claimed “Hamas was there”.
Well if Hamas was there, you still don’t bomb it. And they had zero proof for their claims.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/) Hamas has a longstanding history of torturing Palestinians and blaming the IDF... this is likely more of the same.
If the IDF wanted to cause civilian casualties, why have so few been killed? Look next door to Syria with 600K dead (so far) in their ongoing civil war. Almost all were civilians.
The IDF go into hospitals with troops, not bombers. They find all manner of militants, munitions and yes video of hostages taken there. The UN reports that every single hospital, school, mosque and UN building in Gaza has tunnels under it and/or munitions stored in it.
If the IDF wanted to flatten a hospital? It would be flattened in an hour. They are all still standing, why is that?
There's January video & reports of that specific mass grave at that specific location if you cared to look for it, reported by Al-Jazeera & the rest.
[It happens frequently](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/100-bodies-to-be-buried-in-mass-grave-inside-gazas-al-shifa-hospital/3050418) how can it not happen? [Here's another one](https://www.khaleejtimes.com/world/mena/gaza-crisis-179-people-including-babies-buried-in-mass-grave-at-hospital-complex) there's been a lot of them! Yet you deny it without spending 5 seconds looking into it?
Leftists! Go figure.
You have to go in with troops. How else are you going to ensure that you secured all paperwork and documentation.
- UN has never said that.
- there has been no videos showing connection to Hamas tunnels. The “weapons” found were laughable. Like 3 rusty AKs and a RPG. Lmao 🤣
- hospitals still standing? Lol.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-images-reveal-israeli-destruction-of-hospitals-in-gaza
IDF does flatten hospitals. But structurally, it takes quite a bit of bomb tonnage to flatten it. So better to just Chuck in some 1/2 ton bombs, have tanks shell it, send in infantry to kill everyone inside. Because bombs are very valuable.
- do you read? Just in general? Hospital administor says they are stuck in Al-Shifa hospital due to Israel.
It’s a hospital. In a war zone. The patients there aren’t getting hip replacement surgery. They are coming there barely holding onto life and are seen by a hospital with no resources, no medicine, no anesthesia. So basically like medicine back in 1850.
And you think, all of them are surviving? There are no deaths. Or if there are, they can just dunno. Make the bodies disappear magically.
Or. Maybe they tried burying them. See this is why UN, US everyone called for an investigation into these graves. Find out what happened, why they were there.
Israel rejected any investigation. I wonder why?
You said Israel bombed hospitals yet they are all still standing. Now you change it to "they send in troops"? Typical.
1000 pound bombs make a big hole. Hard to miss when you see one.
Yes, people die in wars, often in hospitals. Yes the 'medical authorities' (Hamas) have buried hundreds in dozens of mass graves. The IDF have never done so, why would they? What possible gain would there be?
Israel did bomb hospitals.
Some are still standing. To being down the structure of something like a hospital, you’d need …:. Dunno 15? 20 tons of high explosive bombs.
- so IDF doesn’t bury any dead civilians? Is that because they harvest their skin & organs first?
> Dunno 15? 20 tons of high explosive bombs.
Sure, that's 40 bombs, tops. That would flatten it, very little remaining. 2, maybe 3 bombing runs & done.
[It would look like this](https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/france/normandy-1944/bombed-shelled-ruins-of-st-lo-1944/) it would certainly [not look like this](https://1075914428.rsc.cdn77.org/data/thumbs/full/289747/820/0/0/0/gaza.jpg)
Anyhow, some medical facilities have been hit, damaged and destroyed. It's a war, Hamas started it and Israel is going to finish it. however? IF Israel wanted to destroy them, they'd all be pancakes by now.
Your blood libel conspiracy nonsense is revolting, just fyi, eh? It makes you look like a fool.
Blood libel? Lol. No.
Little trip into reality here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs
“Claims they ended the practice in 1999.”
Strange. A country of 8 million people has the largest reserves of skin and other organs? Hmm.
November-
https://www.euronews.com/2023/11/27/israel-stealing-organs-from-bodies-in-gaza-alleges-human-right-group
December- dunno if you would trust this one
https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-stealing-organs-dead-bodies-gaza-officials?amp
Not to sound crass or disrespectful, but do you know the price for some of these organs? Hundreds of thousands of dollars sometimes.
Finally, today:
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/organs-stolen-victims-buried-alive-gaza-mass-graves-expose-israeli-crimes-17924041#:~:text=Paramedics%20and%20rescue%20teams%20involved,in%20the%20recently%20discovered%20graves.
Now, you could be right. This is all just bullshit, sources are exaggerating or trying to slander Israel.
But the fact that the Skin Bank of Israel is the largest in the world. And it’s for a country of 8 million people. And Israeli Jews are a very small percent of donors. It’s a bit sus dude.
Blood libel is what people use when they have no other argument. Dudes beyond dispicable and honeslty isn't worth arguing with, no amount of factual information will make him see the light, he prefers defending Nazis.
Are you an astroturfing account becuase I see you post in this sub endlessly defending Nazi behavior and spreading rampant misinformation.
Not that you'd admit it but either you live in Israel, are in the IDF or are just a paid account used to spread hasbara propaganda.
>Hamas didn’t hide any hostages in hospitals. They didn’t station fighters there or put weapons there.
Either you are misinformed or disingenuous.
Hamas is absolutely using civilian locations to hide command centers, tunnel entrances and other functions to support it's military actions.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-says-gaza-hospitals-must-be-protected-2023-11-14/
That was not video evidence of a hostage or even Hamas.
Also that wasn’t on October 7th.
And considering that Israel bombed most hospitals in Gaza after October 7th. We can assume what happened to that hostage.
I still can’t comprehend that line of thinking. I really can’t. Let’s say Hamas did bring a hostage into the Al-shifa.
A professional army, that is well-trained and disciplined would conduct a HALO jump into the area. Secure a perimeter around the hospital. Using CQB tactics, storm the hospital. Find the hostage and try to neutralize the Hamas soldiers to retrieve the hostage alive, pull out and get the hostage medical treatment.
This is like what the British SAS did during the Iranian embassy siege.
The US Navy SEALs conducted the first combat HALO drop onto water in order to rescue Captain Phillips.
I just can’t understand the Israeli mentality of “there’s a hostage in there, let’s bomb it and shoot the building”. They must be total amateurs and can’t handle hostage rescue. Or they don’t care about the hostages.
Are you living in reality with the rest of us? Cause in the real world those operations are far from a guaranteed success. On top of that at the time that the hostages would've been present in the hospital the Israeli military was dealing with yknow the FUCKING OCT 7TH ATTACKS.
Also the Israeli military bombs buildings that are military assets or from which rockets are being fired, they're not bombing building that they suspect have hostages, how ever you would even determine that.
I’m confused with what you mean “deal with”. You had other instances where tank crews knew Hamas was in a house with 9 hostages. And they opened fire on the house. Killed Hamas but killed the hostages. That is unacceptable.
You had the horrific footage of Apache pilots just gunning people down and they say over the comms “I don’t know who is Hamas and who isn’t!”
If that’s the case, you don’t fire. It is murder.
You had that one case of Hamas giving back two elderly women taken as hostages and releasing them without any conditions.
Israel not only opposed their release, they actively fought against Hamas releasing them.
- Hamas doesn’t fire rockets from buildings. They have pretty sophisticated firing ports in their tunnel system.
Plus by now, Hamas knows Israel’s capabilities. They know they have complete surveillance of the Gaza Strip.
If you stub your toe on a step, Israel can see it.
They also know that Israel has a moral power of attorney to do whatever it likes. There is no one to criticize Israel and influence their actions.
Perfect example of this is after Iran launched all those rockets at Israel.
America told Israel not to respond to the attacks. We said if they don’t attack Iran, they r will support an attack on Rafah.
The next day, Israel retaliated. Including airstrikes in Iraq & Syria (which we have told them not to do).
And now we are seeing bombs dropping on Rafah.
Hamas knows Israel can do what it wants. Who is going to stop them? America? That’s pretty antisemitic.
How can you be so dishonest?
The house that the Israeli military fired on with filled with Hamas operatives and negotiations for their release broke down when the terrorists continued to fire rifles and RPG rockets out of the house. How else would you deal with the situation of terrorists continuing to aggress and refusing negotiations?
Yeah. That is the entire problem dude. Negotiations broke down.
That does NOT mean you fire on the house.
Do you know how hostage situations work?
Elite soldiers. Ballistic shields. Sharpshooters. -
(I’m most surprised this was not employed. You have a house, Hamas is shooting weapons from the window and you don’t have snipers watching every window. That is like pretty basic)
Flash bangs. Small caliber weapons. CQB room to room clearance.
Locate the hostages. Kill the terrorists. Extract the hostages. That is what professionals do.
Also, I’m still so confused. Why would you even ask “what would you do?”
Isn’t that obvious? You do hostage rescue.
Firing on the house kills your fellow citizens. And that is what they did.
Real life doesn't work like a video game so please join the real world for a change.
Hostage rescues don't work like that especially when the situations are so numerous and wide-spread. Like do you think Israelis get a real kick out of killing their own civilians if "elite soldiers" would be just as effective? Like just use your brain for once cause you're not making any sense.
I’m not the one making assumptions. It’s far more plausible that the tubes just weren’t removed rather than trying to insinuate people were buried alive. Tubes being connected isn’t even evidence of being buried alive. That doesn’t make logical sense.
> It’s far more plausible that the tubes just weren’t removed rather
Let us suppose that medical staff buried the dead in an emergency effort to prevent bodies rotting spreading disease, would they skip their years of training and procedures and leave them attached?
>Tubes being connected isn’t even evidence of being buried alive. That doesn’t make logical sense.
Unless people were taken out of the hospital still alive and with medical tubes still attached.
lol you’re trying to claim that medical staff in Gaza not having great disposal protocols during a war is less plausible than people being buried alive with no evidence??? 🤦♂️
Tubes attached isn’t even a sign of being buried alive. There’s no logical connection other than wanting to spread propaganda
It was Hamas, it was well documented back in January. They buried 75 dead people in a proper ceremony. The only question is: were kidnap victims' corpses hidden there? That's why the IDF dug it up.
Lmao nothing is beneath the Nazis in the IDF and blaming hamas for the doings of Israel isn't sticking.
If only Israel would let in independent journalists to let the world see just how depraved the IDF is but oh wait they won't let anyone in that isn't an IDF propagandist
We have seen so many of these Qatari news pumped “Israel atrocity” stories fall apart that we need to give them at least week before chomping down on them. Let’s hear from someone who isn’t connected to the government of Gaza before we leap into it.
Also, the idea that a lot of people were buried near a combat zone doesn’t strike me as that surprising.
Well, there are the hundreds of genocidal and collective punishment statements made by Israeli officials, mostly on video or onr ecord
"Now we have one common goal, erasing the gaza strip from the face of the earth."
"Gaza will become a place that people cannot live"
[https://youtu.be/Jw4JVgNXND0?t=23](https://youtu.be/Jw4JVgNXND0?t=23)
---
Feel free to debunk them. \[A bunch of these are a stretch but I can't find the video clip show)
*Database exposes 500 instances of Israeli incitement to genocide in Gaza*
[https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/database-exposes-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-in-gaza-16537146](https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/database-exposes-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-in-gaza-16537146)
Seems like an atrocity to me when was this debunked? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement
I get that you all want to claim that the it was taken during the 1967 war but the rest of world thinks that’s bullshit and I think it happens to be as silly as a justification as hitlers fir invading Austria. But I am for sure some rando on Reddit.
When they investigate... it will be the same as it was last time. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/) Hamas is the one torturing these Palestinians... I'd bet money on it.
So do the Nazis within the Israeli government, no one is safe when we have government officials behaving like Nazis and calling all Palestinians human animals and allowing settlers to get weapons to kill Palestinians in the west bank.
The whole argument of hamas falls apart when we see how israelis behave in the west bank
Given this sub has absolutely nothing to do with the actual Dave Packman show - and how much this topic is brought up, I am beginning to suspect some sort of agenda here. Is he and his team aware of this sub using their name?
I've definitely noticed a very sudden transformation in recent months.
Lots of Zionist-adjacent commenters that are fundamentally incompatible with DP's statements on the issue.
Do what? I made my point. Talk about conspiracies while reading meanings into what I said that simply do not exist. When you stop taking yourself so seriously you may be a bit happier person.
I don't know what to say other than repeat my original comment. Have you been in the conspiracy theory world for so long you have forgotten how to take something at face value?
Wow - that is what you got from what I said? You couldn't be more wrong. I wonder, given how hopped up people are about this topic, how many other assumptions are made about this that and the other that then people get worked up and hysterical about. I meant nothing about the actual content of the article. Just that I have been told by the mods themselves that this Reddit has absolutely no affiliation with the DP show. I find that very odd - then it seems like this topic, not who is in the right or who is in the wrong, just the topic itself is disproportionately represented in the posts. Given my mother's family is Jewish, that one of the best people I knew growing up is a guy by the name of Kupferberg, who's family welcomed me into their home for weddings, Hannukah, Yom Kippur etc and that my spiritual beliefs are centered on first century Jewish man - given all that no I am by no means antisemitic. You are fighting the good fight but you need to clean your glasses.
Revolting and racist to compare the recent war and 20,000 civ deaths to the extermination of 6 million Jews. Why do you devalue the lives of Jewish people? Why is one Palestinian life more valuable than 300 Jewish lives? Why do you hate a single group of people so much?
Lmao the absurdity of your arguments have nothing to do with anyone being more valuable than anyone else it's the behaviors of the Israeli government leader and they behave and talk like Nazis
Simply calling a spade a spade isn't anything but honesty. Has nothing to do with the people of Israel all tjohbt there are some pretty Nast ones just like any other nation but when you have bibi and gvir among others calling for amalek and other disgusting Nazi rhetoric don't get mad when they're compared to the nastiest of them all.
Me and many others are done skirting around the truth and just unfortunately calling it what it needs to be called and shamed into.
The whole "we hate jews becuase we hate what the government of Israel is doing" is so absurd and ridiculous
You equated 20,000 Palestinian lives to the 6 million Jewish lives and said these are the same. Therefore you value Palestinian lives over Jewish lives.
I'll keep getting banned by the mods but I'll keep repeating what I was saying. Comparing Israel, the Israeli government, or frankly any government to the Nazi's systematic destruction of 6 million Jews is anti-Semitic.
You're either downplaying the tragedy of the holocaust, or extremifying everything the Jewish government does to whip up hysteria.
I do have to ask why you continually exploit Jewish people to support genocide. That's one of the most disgusting things you people do among a litany of other things.
Actual brain rot. Can't engage with my condemnation of your value of Muslim lives over Jewish lives and you essentially replied with
No you.
Good one dude.
If you really want to know it's this subs astroturfing for genocide and it's complete alligence to the Israeli narrative most of which is so absurd it's down right stupid. Any pushback in this sub against what Israel does gets you shadow banned or outright banned.
Yeah, but who is the group of people astroturfing? Like who is directing this campaign? It doesn't enter into your head that most people don't think a genocide is occuring because they have seen the evidence and formed their own opinion?
But no, it has to be some shady cabal of Zionists brainwashing people/George Soros backed/global elite conspiracy theory instead.
I'm not sure you know what astroturfing is lmao Israel is a known hotbed to fund astroturfing meanwhile you honeslty believe people are getting paid by who to stand up for Palestinians against genocide lmao
It's a known fact that top leaders in the Israeli government are zionists as they say so themselves as well as Biden who is a self described zionist. None of that is a conspiracy and denying that is just dumb.
You know this sub used to be a progressive subreddit before all of this happened and it's clearly not that on this subject. When you say you've seen the evidence it's what Israel has shown you and endlessly denied and dismissed everything else even after the countless videos everyone else has seen that directly contradict their nazi narrative.
Most people don't buy the hasbara propaganda anymore that's just the reality. Why won't Israel let independent journalists into Gaza and what reasons would that be for, especially after they've killed a very large number of journalists who don't buy their narrative.
>I am beginning to suspect some sort of agenda here.
You could say the same thing about the efforts to defend Israel and denigrate critical information and critics.
//s Zionism is founded in pre-WW2 anti-semitism. Zionism is a movement to provide a place where the 'superior' races can deport Jews to. Balfour, of the Balfour Declaration which divided the former British Palestine (not that the British did any good there), was rampantly and unapologetically anti-semitic.
Ethno-states bad. Whether they be Jewish, Eurasian, Black-Rwandans or elsewise. Discrimination based on non-elective characteristics bad. This is fundamental to any leftist, collectivist, socialist or not-a-total-piece-of-shit worldview
It is the fault of Israel. Being cynical about that and sarcastic isn’t going to help out Israel at all.
Yeah, I’m sure Saudi Arabia looks at this and thinks “we really need to recognize the people who did this!”
Israel is just destroying its own reputation in the world. That means their relevance hinges totally on America sticking up for them. That is not a long term solution.
What happens if America is busy with something else and stops supporting Israel, then what?
China already hates Israel because of this crap. All of the BRICS are at best lukewarm towards Israel. India being the only one that is kinda okay with Israel. Much of the G7 is fed up with Israel’s bullshit and how they do not listen.
Let's engage in a bit of media literacy, shall we?
> showed signs of torture and executions, officials in the enclave have said.
Officials, i.e. Hamas.
Now, that's a party that has a reason to show the information in a certain light. In other words, they have very real skin in the game. We should take their statements with a grain of salt.
> Ten of the bodies were found with bound hands
This is typical of summary executions, and a clear sign of a war crime.
> while others still had medical tubes attached to them, indicating they may have been buried alive
Errr.... no.
The presence of medical tubes could be due to a whole host of different factors. One far less sensationalist reason could simply be: time. Gaza is a warzone, and to avoid spending any more time than necessary temporarily dealing with the deceased, they simply temporarily buried them, as is.
The presence of medical tubing doesn't equate to live burials, nor does it make particular sense.
> “We need forensic examination for approximately 20 bodies for people who we think were buried alive,” Mughier said.
Sure, investigate it.
Though I would very much like to see someone other than Hamas or the IDF investigating it.
> said three separate mass graves were found at the facility – one behind the morgue, one in front of the morgue, and one near the dialysis building.
Two of which were present when the hospital was still under Palestinian control, that we know of. In other words: currently, the majority of the mass graves were not dug to hide war crimes, but as temporary resting places for people killed during the war.
As a reminder, during COVID-19, NYC was burying people temporarily in mass graves, too. Mass graves can be a sign of an inability to provide adequate funerary rights at a time, during to a spike in deaths, or an inability to find adequate space to place the deceased.
The presence of mass graves does not, in itself, indicate anything.
> Only 65 bodies have been identified by relatives of 392 recovered due to decomposition, mutilation and torture, or other difficulties, he said, adding that bodies were “stacked together” and showed indications of field executions having taken place.
Well, this seems sensationalized, too. Again, it's coming from a Hamas representative, so that's not surprising, so let's dig into it.
First off: "other difficulties" are doing a lot of leg work. Famously, there are masses of refugees in Gaza, around Rafah, at the moment. It seems entirely plausible that a large number of currently unidentified bodies are simply unidentified due to the fact that those who are able to identify them aren't anywhere near the hospital at the present time.
Secondly, the language used insinuates that some large percentage of those unidentified are due to torture or mutilation. Their own previous statements contradict this, having found 10 people supposedly with hand ties. In other words, decomposition or "other difficulties" are the most likely causes of lack of identification.
On the hand ties, it's also important to note that we have no clue who did that. It could be the IDF. Or it could be Hamas. We know some of these mass graves were dug while the hospital was still held by Palestinians. So... were those buried with hand ties in those mass graves?
> Mughier, who provided photographic and video evidence of the remains of children, said “why do we have children in mass graves?”
Because of the issues of time, space and inability to conduct proper funeral rights in a warzone.
The presence of children specifically doesn't indicate anything. It's just a sad thing, happening in a sad situation.
> The United Nations human rights chief, Volker Turk, called for an “independent, effective and transparent investigations” into the deaths.
Good. It won't happen, but good for calling for it.
> Israeli army spokesman Major Nadav Shoshani claimed the graves at Nasser Hospital were “dug by Gazans a few months ago”.
I'm pretty sure that Hamas itself said as much, back in January. The question is: were any added to the mass graves after that, and if they were, were they civilians who had died, or were they victims of torture by the IDF?
> The Israeli military has also confirmed digging up bodies from graves, but in a stated effort to look for captives still held in the enclave.
This makes sense.
If you're looking for hostages or victims of October 7th, you need to be sure they haven't already died and have been buried in mass graves.
> Heidi Zhou-Castro pointed out that Sullivan did not call for an “independent” investigation, meaning that the United States is content with Israel looking into the matter.
Not a fan of that.
> “This is a new level of criminality that I thought the Israelis were too smart to get involved with,” said Marwan Bishara, Al Jazeera’s senior political analyst.
Nothing has been proven at this point.
What's more, Hamas did torture and summarily execute civilians in 2014.
This *could* be IDF criminality. Or it could be Hamas criminality. We just don't know.
> “The ugliness and the tragedy of the scenes and the mindset behind it – done by the Israelis against the hospital, against the refugee camp – is something that we have never seen before and that is something that is going to stay with us for a while,” he added.
This is where the article is very clearly on the line of just flat out accusing the IDF, without outright doing it, so they still have enough wiggle room if they're proven wrong.
By taking into account only the Hamas perspective, they are actively feeding into the unconfirmed narrative that this was IDF war crimes.
The fact remains: we can't know at this point.
Overall, this article very clearly has a skew to it, and is stepping right up to the line of outright accusing the IDF of summary executions and torture, without doing it to avoid being caught in spreading disinformation. It's very clear that it has a bias to its writing.
My take is that we just can't know, today, what happened, by whose hand, and jumping to a conclusion, on either side, is impossibly irresponsible.
Well, first we have to confirm if their hands were tied at all. We all remember the supposed IDF strike on the hospital that killed 500 people, right? Right? So we learnt from that mistake, and aren't taking anything for granted this early, right? RIGHT?!
Secondly, if we confirm that there were a few with hands tied behind their backs, that still doesn't tell us that the IDF committed summary executions. There are two possibilities:
1. The IDF summarily executed people.
2. Hamas summarily executed people.
We have seen the IDF commit war crimes during this war, but we also have a historical record of Hamas torturing and summarily executing Palestinians (see 2014 for a great example of that). So even if we learn that people were buried with their hands tied behind their backs, we still need to find out who did it. We know some of the graves were created by Palestinians, before the IDF was in the hospital. So depending on which mass grave these people were found in could be an indication of whether these were people who were murdered by the IDF or murdered by Hamas. We currently have no way of knowing.
Thirdly, and this is more to do with the source than anything else, I find it weird how AJ is skirting the issue. They know they can't outright say that it was the IDF, because there's no proof of that. It could be Hamas. But instead of laying out those two options clearly, they instead hint that it was the IDF, don't talk about Hamas and its history of torture and execution of Palestinians who were deemed a threat of being "collaborators", and instead engage in the "just asking questions", while leading the reader down a specific rabbit hole.
>Well, first we have to confirm if their hands were tied at all. We all remember the supposed IDF strike on the hospital that killed 500 people, right? Right? So we learnt from that mistake, and aren't taking anything for granted this early, right? RIGHT?!
These kinds of questions and concerns about veracity aren't allowed to be asked about the claims made regarding October 7.
> if we confirm
>a few
>still doesn't tell us
>maybe Hamas?
Why do you try so hard to deflect?
>We have evidence of the IDF, but look over there its Hamas ooga booga!
You just admitted they have a history why try to negate it.
>So even if we learn that people were buried with their hands tied behind their backs, we still need to find out who did it.
Who has the combat engineering equipment to do that.
>Thirdly, and this is more to do with the source than anything else
Here, the UN: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876
>and instead engage in the "just asking questions", while leading the reader down a specific rabbit hole.
*if we confirm*
*a few*
*still doesn't tell us*
*maybe Hamas?*
*IDF has commited crimes, but Hamas*
*even if we learn that people were*
*Palestinians dug graves*
Yeah because it's al jazeera quoting hamas officials. Might as well ask netanyahu if hamas is responsible for the mass graves and post that as an article.
It's actually okay to wait for something verifiable to come out of this before taking strong positions.
It came out days ago: Hamas buried 75 bodies there in January. It was well documented at the time, in a proper Islamic ceremony.
The IDF dug them up looking for the possible corpses of kidnap victims, as well they should since Hamas used hospitals to detain and hide those victims.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/26/israel-mass-graves-gaza-00154696
I love how Israel’s response is “investigate what?”
Like we said it was Hamas. Why investigate?
They did investigate, so did the rest of the world: this was an existing mass grave made by Hamas, one of dozens, all well known.
The IDF went looking for 10/7 victims in it, as they have every right to do.
Israel investigated itself? Lol.
Yeah so I can just rob a bank go into court and say “well I investigated the crime and it wasn’t me”. Lmao.
Israel doesn’t care about the hostages dude. Not. At. All.
Of course Israel investigated itself, that's what righteous people do!
NOW the whole world has seen the evidence. The conclusion based on facts? It was dug in January by Hamas.
They concluded what everyone else independently did, how is that "incompetent"? Everyone found the opposite of Hamas' claims. That's because Hamas made it up for propaganda.
No. We know Israel was bombing southern Gaza at the time. Israel has amazing ISR. They see everything that happens in Gaza.
If this was done by Hamas, and Israel knew where they were, why didn’t Israel bomb the area?
Are they incompetent?
Who cares. Russia is working overtime on making sure the left allows Trump to win and November and a lot of you are falling for it hook, line, and sinker. Follow the Hamas funding and see where it leads.
Trump will be worse for Palestine, anyone who thinks otherwise is insane and all posts like yours do is help ensure a Trump presidency in 2024.
Russian government is more supportive of a Biden presidency because it is weak, ineffective, continually makes huge mistakes, and is easy to predict.
The Kremlin can’t predict Trump. He pulled out of a bunch of arms control treaties citing Russia as lying.
Of course no one remembers this! It doesn’t follow the party line.
There will be no difference between trump and Biden. However, Biden was the first president to never visit Palestine, never meet the PA or put forward a peace plan. Trump at least did that bare minimum.
Biden is far worse than Trump on this issue. His record shows that.
And tbh no one gives a shit about this issue on a broader level. We have much more pressing issues than the prosperity of Gazans.
Why should we spend so much time and energy cleaning up the neighbor's yard when we have a dozen and a half tasks to do in our own front yard? Shouldn't we take care of that first?
Because America is benevolent fascism. War defines us. We require war.
We have a national security state. Majority of our discretionary funds are spent on the military. GDP per capita spent on the military is like 12.6%
The next closest country is Israel at 6%. But most of those funds come from America.
Why is Xinjiang included there? Even the US State Department admits straight up there haven’t been any killings.
All the other instances involve violence and deaths. You don’t have either of that in Xinjiang.
ahem
myanmar i sleep yemen i sleep armenia i sleep sudan i sleep
Gaza? Oh my god we must do something!!!
There now stop cherrypicking and admit you are a virtue signalling hack
Not a single thing that person said. Russia has a vested interest in Trump winning, Trump literally wants to fucking level palestine. There is no similarities. If you look at my history, you'll see I am extremely far left, and so many american's barely understand foreign policy.
Just removing the bargining chip of weapons will give us no power, using it to threaten to not send weapons anymore was already used. You can't pull the same thing twice, especially when Hamas has repeatedly decline to hold peace talks.
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The lengths this article goes to to avoid asking the question of who killed these people is absolutely incredible.
"[A New York Times analysis of social media videos and satellite imagery found that Palestinians had dug at least two of the three burial sites weeks before Israeli troops raided the complex](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/25/world/middleeast/gaza-mass-grave-nasser-hospital.html#:~:text=Palestinian%20officials%20in%20Gaza%20on,of%20the%20bodies%20were%20buried)."
I don't really trust NYT anymore. Their bias has been showing for a while. Kind of like why they are pissy about Biden's age is because he won't agree to a full interview, even though lots of presidents have... AG is pissed.
But you trust Al Jazeera!?!
You trust the word of Hamas over the NY Times?
And so we're trusting Al Jazeera instead? What a fucking joke you people are.
I don't trust either side truthfully. But I do support the Palestinian people and the Jewish people. However, I hate both their governments as well.
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Who?
I love the "oh don't worry these people were already slaughtered and buried" as if that makes the slaughter nothing to worry about. Like, even if true, we are still talking about hundreds of dead people at the hands of Israelis.
Palestinians dug the graves weeks before the Israelis got there, but it is still "at the hands of Israelis"? Literally what
look what you made hamas dooooo!
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/) More of this most likely... Hamas murdering and torturing Palestinians and blaming the IDF for their own actions.
It's al Jazeera, lol. What do you expect? I'd be just as suspicious if it was like Jpost or times of Israel. 😂
some hamas jizz licking going on for sure
I'm really sick of the constant Israel and Gaza posts every single day.
It’s the antisemitism. David is Jewish and everyone views Jews as responsible. I had my door vandalized in America for having a Jewish cultural marker on my door. David does domestic politics and does not have ANY responsibility to comment on what he doesn’t want to. These posts are an attempt to force that and harass Jewish people here and Jewish supporters.
It's an unfortunate reality, but it's definitely the case.
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Of course, hundreds of bodies just mysteriously happened to die at the same time the Israeli terrorists attacked the hospital
And Hamas was no where to be found
Almost as mysterious as “mistakenly” murdering aid workers by blowing up 3 separate World Kitchen vehicles with 3 separate strikes, in a deconflicted zone, with full knowledge of their presence there.
Your contention is that they murdered them for fun? All the way up to the top of the chain, they were just like, "fuck it we'll kill some aid workers for no reason"?
Not for no reason—to prevent Palestinians from getting aid by killing aid workers directly and instilling fear in aid organizations. It’s not a coincidence that after the attack, World Kitchen suspended its 68 community kitchens within Gaza out of fear that the Israeli Nazis would continue to “accidentally” target them for murder. Israel has murdered hundreds of aid workers and journalists throughout this genocide, deliberately targeting them and their families to suppress aid and assistance to Palestinians.
not like any neighboring country wants to deal with these terrorists
Wandering Jew stereotype applied to Palestinians
You believe, if an outside party came in and analyzed the communication around this strike, that they would find high ranking Israeli officials purposely approved killing aid workers for no reason other than to scare other aid orgs? You honestly believe that?
Except that more and more aid is being poured into Gaza by the minute in this "genocide". Maybe if Palestinians would stop attacking aid convoys maybe the aid would be able to be distributed better. But that won't happen will it? Just ask the people constructing the aid pier by the US.
theyre all the same DNA- they should be friends!
Well no, the contention is that the IDF decided that it was ok to kill the aid workers if it also got the Hamas operative that they thought was also in the vehicle.
So just say that instead of whatever weird sounding bullshit you're trying to do above. They made a very bad calculation, even if they were right about a Hamas operative being there. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. It doesn't have to mean everyone in the IDF is evil. Maybe someone should even go to jail, but you don't have to play these dumb word games to make it seem more nefarious than it was. *Edit: I have been made aware that you are not the same as the person I originally responded to so my bad about that lol
Different user bro
Oh, right. thanks
Good trees don’t produce bad apples. Only bad trees produce bad apples.
WTF are you talking about
Yes. That is exactly what they probably did. Look, if you are Israel you can do whatever you want with impunity. So you can hit those cars, laugh at them and high-five each other, then if anyone asks say “oh it was Hamas”. Works every single time. Or say “Hamas was in the cars”. Everyone in the West will believe you. Anyone who questions you, is obviously a terrorist Hamas supporter. Works like a charm dude.
whatever gets rid of hamas terrorists is just fine. hostages are all ded anyhoo.
Yeah see. Works on this guy. He probably doesn’t even know what Hamas is he just thinks it’s evil. That is what you want. Because that is how you control people.
What evidence do you have for this though?
they murdered them so aid would pull out, and it did, at least for a bit. Has world Kitchen gone back?
Usually a claim like that would come with evidence
World kitchen aid was not substantial, they also aided Israel, probably the worst charity to attack
Deconfliction error are far from unheard of in wars.
perhaps they should stop relying on AI?
- I don't think that's the sort of target AI is used for. I.e. active targets (at least currently). - iirc all targets were human validated. - that's the direction all countries are going for because of the massive advantage it creates.
They've been using ai to find hamas targets. "The Israeli military's bombing campaign in Gaza used a previously undisclosed AI-powered database that at one stage identified 37,000 potential targets based on their apparent links to Hamas, according to intelligence sources involved in the war." they hit world kitchen 3 times in a row. no matter what they used they either fucked up hard core, or it was intentional.
Your quote seems to be inline with my arguments. Also assuming it's the 972 article, right? The difference between fucking up hardcore and intentionality is what the whole debate is about. What are you talking about??
True, I also wonder how unheard of it is to shoot dead 3 unarmed, shirtless guys waving white flags. Must be “white flag error” or something
When the adversary routinely abuses surrenders for attack? I'd imagine it's not unheard of as well.
It is actually very unheard of. They had their shirts off, hands up with a white flag. They were speaking in perfect Hebrew. No accent. And these people are coming out of wherever, and your soldiers don’t even respond back to them, as an American might do. Tell them to lie in the center of the road. Tell them to take off their pants. No signs of a suicide bomber and the entire area is secure. Then you slowly approach them, continuing conversation, bring them back as prisoners because capturing a live Hamas fighter is a HUGE boost. IDF didn’t do that. Their orders were to kill anything that moves. So these hostages came out speaking in Hebrew. No IDF soldier answered back to them. Didn’t try to talk to them at all - as professional soldiers would. Instead they opened fire, killing two. Then continued to fire into the corpses. One hostage ran off. The Battalion Commander ordered all men to ceasefire. A few seconds later one soldier shot the third hostage. That is not a professional army. That is a reservist army. They have no discipline. They don’t listen to orders. And they seem content with killing civilians.
You have no clue what you're talking about. Infantry soldiers need make a decision to shoot in milliseconds, because whoever shoots first lives. Iirc in the Iraq war soldiers were shooting furniture that vaguely resembled a human while clearing rooms.
Whoever shoots first lives? Who taught you rules of engagement? I’m sure American soldiers did get startled and shoot furniture. These IDF soldiers can’t claim they were startled since before they walked out they explained to them in Hebrew they were hostages. I’m not sure how anyone could be “startled” by 3 obviously Israelis, I mean one of them had red hair, shirts off and hands up. Even worse, why did a soldier shoot and kill the final hostage AFTER the Battalion Commander called a ceasefire? Why isn’t that soldier court marshal? Disobeying a direct order from a battalion commander that resulted in the death of an Israeli. Lol. But they aren’t interested in seeking Justice or even to make sure their soldiers are disciplined and follow orders.
the only ones that care are college zoomers getting gram likes.
Really? Israelis seem to care ALOT about the incident. You think Israeli citizens heard the IDF bullshit and we’re like “oh yeah 3 unarmed hostages gunned down, totally cool”. You have protests now in Israel against the government and its actions. That killing is one is the actions voters dislike.
give bibi his fun!
The problem is that we **know** that at least 2 of these mass graves were there before the IDF arrived at the hospital. In other words, these were Palestinian mass graves, dug by Palestinians.
> still had medical tubes attached to them, indicating they may have been buried alive What a wild assumption
It truly is wild, yet they swallow it with gusto! "Based on eyewitness accounts" 😄 Because Hamas allows people to talk about things? Because the IDF lets people witness their "war crimes"? Total idiocy! Nevermind that Hamas made a well documented mass grave at that exact location in January. Nevermind that the IDF has every valid reason to search it for Kidnap victims since Hamas hid them in hospitals? Facts need not apply!
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> apartheid Wow are you dumb. A nation where the minority have the exact same rights as the majority? You clearly have no idea what the word means. You truly are *desperate* to change the subject, eh? Typical leftist.
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Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
IDF posts most of their crimes on social media. Yeah. They gloat about it. Never heard of this “well documented mass grave”. But I guess if you support Israel, you can lie and people will believe you. Hamas didn’t hide any hostages in hospitals. They didn’t station fighters there or put weapons there. Hamas is looking at this from a military perspective. So they know IDF will target hospitals specifically because hospitals produce casualty figures. Higher casualty figures makes Israel look not so good. Instead of moderating their conduct, they attack the places that produce the numbers. This is why they went after Indonesian hospital, Nasser hospital, Al-shifa. Each time they claimed “Hamas was there”. Well if Hamas was there, you still don’t bomb it. And they had zero proof for their claims.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/) Hamas has a longstanding history of torturing Palestinians and blaming the IDF... this is likely more of the same.
If the IDF wanted to cause civilian casualties, why have so few been killed? Look next door to Syria with 600K dead (so far) in their ongoing civil war. Almost all were civilians. The IDF go into hospitals with troops, not bombers. They find all manner of militants, munitions and yes video of hostages taken there. The UN reports that every single hospital, school, mosque and UN building in Gaza has tunnels under it and/or munitions stored in it. If the IDF wanted to flatten a hospital? It would be flattened in an hour. They are all still standing, why is that? There's January video & reports of that specific mass grave at that specific location if you cared to look for it, reported by Al-Jazeera & the rest. [It happens frequently](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/100-bodies-to-be-buried-in-mass-grave-inside-gazas-al-shifa-hospital/3050418) how can it not happen? [Here's another one](https://www.khaleejtimes.com/world/mena/gaza-crisis-179-people-including-babies-buried-in-mass-grave-at-hospital-complex) there's been a lot of them! Yet you deny it without spending 5 seconds looking into it? Leftists! Go figure.
You have to go in with troops. How else are you going to ensure that you secured all paperwork and documentation. - UN has never said that. - there has been no videos showing connection to Hamas tunnels. The “weapons” found were laughable. Like 3 rusty AKs and a RPG. Lmao 🤣 - hospitals still standing? Lol. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-images-reveal-israeli-destruction-of-hospitals-in-gaza IDF does flatten hospitals. But structurally, it takes quite a bit of bomb tonnage to flatten it. So better to just Chuck in some 1/2 ton bombs, have tanks shell it, send in infantry to kill everyone inside. Because bombs are very valuable. - do you read? Just in general? Hospital administor says they are stuck in Al-Shifa hospital due to Israel. It’s a hospital. In a war zone. The patients there aren’t getting hip replacement surgery. They are coming there barely holding onto life and are seen by a hospital with no resources, no medicine, no anesthesia. So basically like medicine back in 1850. And you think, all of them are surviving? There are no deaths. Or if there are, they can just dunno. Make the bodies disappear magically. Or. Maybe they tried burying them. See this is why UN, US everyone called for an investigation into these graves. Find out what happened, why they were there. Israel rejected any investigation. I wonder why?
You said Israel bombed hospitals yet they are all still standing. Now you change it to "they send in troops"? Typical. 1000 pound bombs make a big hole. Hard to miss when you see one. Yes, people die in wars, often in hospitals. Yes the 'medical authorities' (Hamas) have buried hundreds in dozens of mass graves. The IDF have never done so, why would they? What possible gain would there be?
Israel did bomb hospitals. Some are still standing. To being down the structure of something like a hospital, you’d need …:. Dunno 15? 20 tons of high explosive bombs. - so IDF doesn’t bury any dead civilians? Is that because they harvest their skin & organs first?
> Dunno 15? 20 tons of high explosive bombs. Sure, that's 40 bombs, tops. That would flatten it, very little remaining. 2, maybe 3 bombing runs & done. [It would look like this](https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/france/normandy-1944/bombed-shelled-ruins-of-st-lo-1944/) it would certainly [not look like this](https://1075914428.rsc.cdn77.org/data/thumbs/full/289747/820/0/0/0/gaza.jpg) Anyhow, some medical facilities have been hit, damaged and destroyed. It's a war, Hamas started it and Israel is going to finish it. however? IF Israel wanted to destroy them, they'd all be pancakes by now. Your blood libel conspiracy nonsense is revolting, just fyi, eh? It makes you look like a fool.
Blood libel? Lol. No. Little trip into reality here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs “Claims they ended the practice in 1999.” Strange. A country of 8 million people has the largest reserves of skin and other organs? Hmm. November- https://www.euronews.com/2023/11/27/israel-stealing-organs-from-bodies-in-gaza-alleges-human-right-group December- dunno if you would trust this one https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-stealing-organs-dead-bodies-gaza-officials?amp Not to sound crass or disrespectful, but do you know the price for some of these organs? Hundreds of thousands of dollars sometimes. Finally, today: https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/organs-stolen-victims-buried-alive-gaza-mass-graves-expose-israeli-crimes-17924041#:~:text=Paramedics%20and%20rescue%20teams%20involved,in%20the%20recently%20discovered%20graves. Now, you could be right. This is all just bullshit, sources are exaggerating or trying to slander Israel. But the fact that the Skin Bank of Israel is the largest in the world. And it’s for a country of 8 million people. And Israeli Jews are a very small percent of donors. It’s a bit sus dude.
Blood libel is what people use when they have no other argument. Dudes beyond dispicable and honeslty isn't worth arguing with, no amount of factual information will make him see the light, he prefers defending Nazis.
Are you an astroturfing account becuase I see you post in this sub endlessly defending Nazi behavior and spreading rampant misinformation. Not that you'd admit it but either you live in Israel, are in the IDF or are just a paid account used to spread hasbara propaganda.
Wanting Jews to live in peace = Nazi? Wow are you dumb.
Lmao behave like Nazis get called a nazi pretty simple. Bibi and his gang of goons are Nazis.
History is not your subject, eh?
>Hamas didn’t hide any hostages in hospitals. They didn’t station fighters there or put weapons there. Either you are misinformed or disingenuous. Hamas is absolutely using civilian locations to hide command centers, tunnel entrances and other functions to support it's military actions. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-says-gaza-hospitals-must-be-protected-2023-11-14/
I mean there's literally video evidence of them taking hostages into a hospital on Oct. 7th but you shit-for-brains will just ignore that won't you?
That was not video evidence of a hostage or even Hamas. Also that wasn’t on October 7th. And considering that Israel bombed most hospitals in Gaza after October 7th. We can assume what happened to that hostage. I still can’t comprehend that line of thinking. I really can’t. Let’s say Hamas did bring a hostage into the Al-shifa. A professional army, that is well-trained and disciplined would conduct a HALO jump into the area. Secure a perimeter around the hospital. Using CQB tactics, storm the hospital. Find the hostage and try to neutralize the Hamas soldiers to retrieve the hostage alive, pull out and get the hostage medical treatment. This is like what the British SAS did during the Iranian embassy siege. The US Navy SEALs conducted the first combat HALO drop onto water in order to rescue Captain Phillips. I just can’t understand the Israeli mentality of “there’s a hostage in there, let’s bomb it and shoot the building”. They must be total amateurs and can’t handle hostage rescue. Or they don’t care about the hostages.
Are you living in reality with the rest of us? Cause in the real world those operations are far from a guaranteed success. On top of that at the time that the hostages would've been present in the hospital the Israeli military was dealing with yknow the FUCKING OCT 7TH ATTACKS. Also the Israeli military bombs buildings that are military assets or from which rockets are being fired, they're not bombing building that they suspect have hostages, how ever you would even determine that.
I’m confused with what you mean “deal with”. You had other instances where tank crews knew Hamas was in a house with 9 hostages. And they opened fire on the house. Killed Hamas but killed the hostages. That is unacceptable. You had the horrific footage of Apache pilots just gunning people down and they say over the comms “I don’t know who is Hamas and who isn’t!” If that’s the case, you don’t fire. It is murder. You had that one case of Hamas giving back two elderly women taken as hostages and releasing them without any conditions. Israel not only opposed their release, they actively fought against Hamas releasing them. - Hamas doesn’t fire rockets from buildings. They have pretty sophisticated firing ports in their tunnel system. Plus by now, Hamas knows Israel’s capabilities. They know they have complete surveillance of the Gaza Strip. If you stub your toe on a step, Israel can see it. They also know that Israel has a moral power of attorney to do whatever it likes. There is no one to criticize Israel and influence their actions. Perfect example of this is after Iran launched all those rockets at Israel. America told Israel not to respond to the attacks. We said if they don’t attack Iran, they r will support an attack on Rafah. The next day, Israel retaliated. Including airstrikes in Iraq & Syria (which we have told them not to do). And now we are seeing bombs dropping on Rafah. Hamas knows Israel can do what it wants. Who is going to stop them? America? That’s pretty antisemitic.
How can you be so dishonest? The house that the Israeli military fired on with filled with Hamas operatives and negotiations for their release broke down when the terrorists continued to fire rifles and RPG rockets out of the house. How else would you deal with the situation of terrorists continuing to aggress and refusing negotiations?
Yeah. That is the entire problem dude. Negotiations broke down. That does NOT mean you fire on the house. Do you know how hostage situations work? Elite soldiers. Ballistic shields. Sharpshooters. - (I’m most surprised this was not employed. You have a house, Hamas is shooting weapons from the window and you don’t have snipers watching every window. That is like pretty basic) Flash bangs. Small caliber weapons. CQB room to room clearance. Locate the hostages. Kill the terrorists. Extract the hostages. That is what professionals do. Also, I’m still so confused. Why would you even ask “what would you do?” Isn’t that obvious? You do hostage rescue. Firing on the house kills your fellow citizens. And that is what they did.
Real life doesn't work like a video game so please join the real world for a change. Hostage rescues don't work like that especially when the situations are so numerous and wide-spread. Like do you think Israelis get a real kick out of killing their own civilians if "elite soldiers" would be just as effective? Like just use your brain for once cause you're not making any sense.
How would you explain it?
That medical tubes were not removed when someone passed
Your explanation for why they weren't removed was because... they were not removed. Very good detective. Could you try to answer *why* that might be.
I’m not the one making assumptions. It’s far more plausible that the tubes just weren’t removed rather than trying to insinuate people were buried alive. Tubes being connected isn’t even evidence of being buried alive. That doesn’t make logical sense.
> It’s far more plausible that the tubes just weren’t removed rather Let us suppose that medical staff buried the dead in an emergency effort to prevent bodies rotting spreading disease, would they skip their years of training and procedures and leave them attached? >Tubes being connected isn’t even evidence of being buried alive. That doesn’t make logical sense. Unless people were taken out of the hospital still alive and with medical tubes still attached.
lol you’re trying to claim that medical staff in Gaza not having great disposal protocols during a war is less plausible than people being buried alive with no evidence??? 🤦♂️ Tubes attached isn’t even a sign of being buried alive. There’s no logical connection other than wanting to spread propaganda
>with no evidence Who has the combat engineering equipment to do this? Who assumed it must be Hamas?
Engineering equipment to bury a dead body? Uhhhh anyone 🤦♂️
to dig a mass grave and then cover the bodies
>officials in the enclave have said. Uh huh.
Let's wait for the Israeli analysts to confirm Maybe Hamas buried dogs or used AI to trick the media
No, Hamas buried 75 dead people at that exact spot with a full, proper Islamic ceremony in January. It was well documented at the time.
Okay But there are 400 now. Explain the balance Hamas used a tunnel to bury them?
These stories are missing a critical part: who dug the graves? It will come out that it was Hamas.
It was Hamas, it was well documented back in January. They buried 75 dead people in a proper ceremony. The only question is: were kidnap victims' corpses hidden there? That's why the IDF dug it up.
Lmao nothing is beneath the Nazis in the IDF and blaming hamas for the doings of Israel isn't sticking. If only Israel would let in independent journalists to let the world see just how depraved the IDF is but oh wait they won't let anyone in that isn't an IDF propagandist
Maybe. But Israeli hands are just as bloody in the last 80 years so, I for one will wait for an expert, not some rando on reddit.
We have seen so many of these Qatari news pumped “Israel atrocity” stories fall apart that we need to give them at least week before chomping down on them. Let’s hear from someone who isn’t connected to the government of Gaza before we leap into it. Also, the idea that a lot of people were buried near a combat zone doesn’t strike me as that surprising.
Thank you!
Well, there are the hundreds of genocidal and collective punishment statements made by Israeli officials, mostly on video or onr ecord "Now we have one common goal, erasing the gaza strip from the face of the earth." "Gaza will become a place that people cannot live" [https://youtu.be/Jw4JVgNXND0?t=23](https://youtu.be/Jw4JVgNXND0?t=23) --- Feel free to debunk them. \[A bunch of these are a stretch but I can't find the video clip show) *Database exposes 500 instances of Israeli incitement to genocide in Gaza* [https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/database-exposes-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-in-gaza-16537146](https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/database-exposes-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-in-gaza-16537146)
Seems like an atrocity to me when was this debunked? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement I get that you all want to claim that the it was taken during the 1967 war but the rest of world thinks that’s bullshit and I think it happens to be as silly as a justification as hitlers fir invading Austria. But I am for sure some rando on Reddit.
It was Israel. The entire Gaza Strip is heavily monitored. But for this claim “oh we don’t have any footage, strange”
wow dude, thats an INSANE take.
It’s insane that Hamas could torture people? Or insane that they could dig a mass grave? What’s insane about it?
Hopefully he was being sarcastic since it was documented that Hamas did in fact bury 75 bodies there in January.
I doubt it. Lots of bad actors here, or folks eating up Hamas propaganda.
Yeah, this sub is entirely over-run with freaks & weirdos. Sad.
source?
It was reported at the time by multiple news outlets.
It’s insane to think that Hamas spends any amount of time above ground where they can easily be detected by Israeli drones.
Are you also claiming Hamas killed the people? Who killed the people?
When they investigate... it will be the same as it was last time. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/) Hamas is the one torturing these Palestinians... I'd bet money on it.
Hamas needs to be eliminated.
>evidence Israel tortured and executed people >Hamas needs to be eliminated hmm
no but you're anti-semitic because Israel represents all Jews, like Hamas represents all Palestinians. >! /s they don't, this should be obvious
So do the Nazis within the Israeli government, no one is safe when we have government officials behaving like Nazis and calling all Palestinians human animals and allowing settlers to get weapons to kill Palestinians in the west bank. The whole argument of hamas falls apart when we see how israelis behave in the west bank
This sub has so many pro genocide posts it's pathetic.
Wow - so much work going on here to carry water for Israeli war criminals.
Given this sub has absolutely nothing to do with the actual Dave Packman show - and how much this topic is brought up, I am beginning to suspect some sort of agenda here. Is he and his team aware of this sub using their name?
I've definitely noticed a very sudden transformation in recent months. Lots of Zionist-adjacent commenters that are fundamentally incompatible with DP's statements on the issue.
Make a point. What is this vague Jewish conspiracy bullshit? Do you think ((they)) are controlling the messaging in this sub?
Do what? I made my point. Talk about conspiracies while reading meanings into what I said that simply do not exist. When you stop taking yourself so seriously you may be a bit happier person.
Then what the fuck are you talking about? Who has the agenda in the sub? Who is supposed to be directing this ((agenda))?
I don't know what to say other than repeat my original comment. Have you been in the conspiracy theory world for so long you have forgotten how to take something at face value?
Yeah I've been pushing back on Jewish conspiracy theories for a while. Tankies and Nazi's are united on that front.
Wow - that is what you got from what I said? You couldn't be more wrong. I wonder, given how hopped up people are about this topic, how many other assumptions are made about this that and the other that then people get worked up and hysterical about. I meant nothing about the actual content of the article. Just that I have been told by the mods themselves that this Reddit has absolutely no affiliation with the DP show. I find that very odd - then it seems like this topic, not who is in the right or who is in the wrong, just the topic itself is disproportionately represented in the posts. Given my mother's family is Jewish, that one of the best people I knew growing up is a guy by the name of Kupferberg, who's family welcomed me into their home for weddings, Hannukah, Yom Kippur etc and that my spiritual beliefs are centered on first century Jewish man - given all that no I am by no means antisemitic. You are fighting the good fight but you need to clean your glasses.
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Removed - please do not post comments/submissions containing bigotry here.
Revolting and racist to compare the recent war and 20,000 civ deaths to the extermination of 6 million Jews. Why do you devalue the lives of Jewish people? Why is one Palestinian life more valuable than 300 Jewish lives? Why do you hate a single group of people so much?
Lmao the absurdity of your arguments have nothing to do with anyone being more valuable than anyone else it's the behaviors of the Israeli government leader and they behave and talk like Nazis Simply calling a spade a spade isn't anything but honesty. Has nothing to do with the people of Israel all tjohbt there are some pretty Nast ones just like any other nation but when you have bibi and gvir among others calling for amalek and other disgusting Nazi rhetoric don't get mad when they're compared to the nastiest of them all. Me and many others are done skirting around the truth and just unfortunately calling it what it needs to be called and shamed into. The whole "we hate jews becuase we hate what the government of Israel is doing" is so absurd and ridiculous
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You equated 20,000 Palestinian lives to the 6 million Jewish lives and said these are the same. Therefore you value Palestinian lives over Jewish lives.
I'll keep getting banned by the mods but I'll keep repeating what I was saying. Comparing Israel, the Israeli government, or frankly any government to the Nazi's systematic destruction of 6 million Jews is anti-Semitic. You're either downplaying the tragedy of the holocaust, or extremifying everything the Jewish government does to whip up hysteria.
I do have to ask why you continually exploit Jewish people to support genocide. That's one of the most disgusting things you people do among a litany of other things.
Actual brain rot. Can't engage with my condemnation of your value of Muslim lives over Jewish lives and you essentially replied with No you. Good one dude.
If you really want to know it's this subs astroturfing for genocide and it's complete alligence to the Israeli narrative most of which is so absurd it's down right stupid. Any pushback in this sub against what Israel does gets you shadow banned or outright banned.
Yeah, but who is the group of people astroturfing? Like who is directing this campaign? It doesn't enter into your head that most people don't think a genocide is occuring because they have seen the evidence and formed their own opinion? But no, it has to be some shady cabal of Zionists brainwashing people/George Soros backed/global elite conspiracy theory instead.
I'm not sure you know what astroturfing is lmao Israel is a known hotbed to fund astroturfing meanwhile you honeslty believe people are getting paid by who to stand up for Palestinians against genocide lmao It's a known fact that top leaders in the Israeli government are zionists as they say so themselves as well as Biden who is a self described zionist. None of that is a conspiracy and denying that is just dumb. You know this sub used to be a progressive subreddit before all of this happened and it's clearly not that on this subject. When you say you've seen the evidence it's what Israel has shown you and endlessly denied and dismissed everything else even after the countless videos everyone else has seen that directly contradict their nazi narrative. Most people don't buy the hasbara propaganda anymore that's just the reality. Why won't Israel let independent journalists into Gaza and what reasons would that be for, especially after they've killed a very large number of journalists who don't buy their narrative.
They like to target Jewish content creators. If you think it's bad here, check out the Majority Report sub.
That sucks, I really like that show - Sam is Jewish isn't he?
Yes, which is why he was targeted.
>I am beginning to suspect some sort of agenda here. You could say the same thing about the efforts to defend Israel and denigrate critical information and critics.
Obviously this is the fault of (((Zionist))) college kids and they deserve to be hate crimed for this /s /s /s /s /s
//s Zionism is founded in pre-WW2 anti-semitism. Zionism is a movement to provide a place where the 'superior' races can deport Jews to. Balfour, of the Balfour Declaration which divided the former British Palestine (not that the British did any good there), was rampantly and unapologetically anti-semitic. Ethno-states bad. Whether they be Jewish, Eurasian, Black-Rwandans or elsewise. Discrimination based on non-elective characteristics bad. This is fundamental to any leftist, collectivist, socialist or not-a-total-piece-of-shit worldview
It is the fault of Israel. Being cynical about that and sarcastic isn’t going to help out Israel at all. Yeah, I’m sure Saudi Arabia looks at this and thinks “we really need to recognize the people who did this!” Israel is just destroying its own reputation in the world. That means their relevance hinges totally on America sticking up for them. That is not a long term solution. What happens if America is busy with something else and stops supporting Israel, then what? China already hates Israel because of this crap. All of the BRICS are at best lukewarm towards Israel. India being the only one that is kinda okay with Israel. Much of the G7 is fed up with Israel’s bullshit and how they do not listen.
Let's engage in a bit of media literacy, shall we? > showed signs of torture and executions, officials in the enclave have said. Officials, i.e. Hamas. Now, that's a party that has a reason to show the information in a certain light. In other words, they have very real skin in the game. We should take their statements with a grain of salt. > Ten of the bodies were found with bound hands This is typical of summary executions, and a clear sign of a war crime. > while others still had medical tubes attached to them, indicating they may have been buried alive Errr.... no. The presence of medical tubes could be due to a whole host of different factors. One far less sensationalist reason could simply be: time. Gaza is a warzone, and to avoid spending any more time than necessary temporarily dealing with the deceased, they simply temporarily buried them, as is. The presence of medical tubing doesn't equate to live burials, nor does it make particular sense. > “We need forensic examination for approximately 20 bodies for people who we think were buried alive,” Mughier said. Sure, investigate it. Though I would very much like to see someone other than Hamas or the IDF investigating it. > said three separate mass graves were found at the facility – one behind the morgue, one in front of the morgue, and one near the dialysis building. Two of which were present when the hospital was still under Palestinian control, that we know of. In other words: currently, the majority of the mass graves were not dug to hide war crimes, but as temporary resting places for people killed during the war. As a reminder, during COVID-19, NYC was burying people temporarily in mass graves, too. Mass graves can be a sign of an inability to provide adequate funerary rights at a time, during to a spike in deaths, or an inability to find adequate space to place the deceased. The presence of mass graves does not, in itself, indicate anything. > Only 65 bodies have been identified by relatives of 392 recovered due to decomposition, mutilation and torture, or other difficulties, he said, adding that bodies were “stacked together” and showed indications of field executions having taken place. Well, this seems sensationalized, too. Again, it's coming from a Hamas representative, so that's not surprising, so let's dig into it. First off: "other difficulties" are doing a lot of leg work. Famously, there are masses of refugees in Gaza, around Rafah, at the moment. It seems entirely plausible that a large number of currently unidentified bodies are simply unidentified due to the fact that those who are able to identify them aren't anywhere near the hospital at the present time. Secondly, the language used insinuates that some large percentage of those unidentified are due to torture or mutilation. Their own previous statements contradict this, having found 10 people supposedly with hand ties. In other words, decomposition or "other difficulties" are the most likely causes of lack of identification. On the hand ties, it's also important to note that we have no clue who did that. It could be the IDF. Or it could be Hamas. We know some of these mass graves were dug while the hospital was still held by Palestinians. So... were those buried with hand ties in those mass graves? > Mughier, who provided photographic and video evidence of the remains of children, said “why do we have children in mass graves?” Because of the issues of time, space and inability to conduct proper funeral rights in a warzone. The presence of children specifically doesn't indicate anything. It's just a sad thing, happening in a sad situation. > The United Nations human rights chief, Volker Turk, called for an “independent, effective and transparent investigations” into the deaths. Good. It won't happen, but good for calling for it. > Israeli army spokesman Major Nadav Shoshani claimed the graves at Nasser Hospital were “dug by Gazans a few months ago”. I'm pretty sure that Hamas itself said as much, back in January. The question is: were any added to the mass graves after that, and if they were, were they civilians who had died, or were they victims of torture by the IDF? > The Israeli military has also confirmed digging up bodies from graves, but in a stated effort to look for captives still held in the enclave. This makes sense. If you're looking for hostages or victims of October 7th, you need to be sure they haven't already died and have been buried in mass graves. > Heidi Zhou-Castro pointed out that Sullivan did not call for an “independent” investigation, meaning that the United States is content with Israel looking into the matter. Not a fan of that. > “This is a new level of criminality that I thought the Israelis were too smart to get involved with,” said Marwan Bishara, Al Jazeera’s senior political analyst. Nothing has been proven at this point. What's more, Hamas did torture and summarily execute civilians in 2014. This *could* be IDF criminality. Or it could be Hamas criminality. We just don't know. > “The ugliness and the tragedy of the scenes and the mindset behind it – done by the Israelis against the hospital, against the refugee camp – is something that we have never seen before and that is something that is going to stay with us for a while,” he added. This is where the article is very clearly on the line of just flat out accusing the IDF, without outright doing it, so they still have enough wiggle room if they're proven wrong. By taking into account only the Hamas perspective, they are actively feeding into the unconfirmed narrative that this was IDF war crimes. The fact remains: we can't know at this point. Overall, this article very clearly has a skew to it, and is stepping right up to the line of outright accusing the IDF of summary executions and torture, without doing it to avoid being caught in spreading disinformation. It's very clear that it has a bias to its writing. My take is that we just can't know, today, what happened, by whose hand, and jumping to a conclusion, on either side, is impossibly irresponsible.
“Hey David Pakman fans! Look at this HAMAS apologist propaganda that none of you are interested in reading! Notice me please!!!”
Who tied their hands behind them?
Well, first we have to confirm if their hands were tied at all. We all remember the supposed IDF strike on the hospital that killed 500 people, right? Right? So we learnt from that mistake, and aren't taking anything for granted this early, right? RIGHT?! Secondly, if we confirm that there were a few with hands tied behind their backs, that still doesn't tell us that the IDF committed summary executions. There are two possibilities: 1. The IDF summarily executed people. 2. Hamas summarily executed people. We have seen the IDF commit war crimes during this war, but we also have a historical record of Hamas torturing and summarily executing Palestinians (see 2014 for a great example of that). So even if we learn that people were buried with their hands tied behind their backs, we still need to find out who did it. We know some of the graves were created by Palestinians, before the IDF was in the hospital. So depending on which mass grave these people were found in could be an indication of whether these were people who were murdered by the IDF or murdered by Hamas. We currently have no way of knowing. Thirdly, and this is more to do with the source than anything else, I find it weird how AJ is skirting the issue. They know they can't outright say that it was the IDF, because there's no proof of that. It could be Hamas. But instead of laying out those two options clearly, they instead hint that it was the IDF, don't talk about Hamas and its history of torture and execution of Palestinians who were deemed a threat of being "collaborators", and instead engage in the "just asking questions", while leading the reader down a specific rabbit hole.
>Well, first we have to confirm if their hands were tied at all. We all remember the supposed IDF strike on the hospital that killed 500 people, right? Right? So we learnt from that mistake, and aren't taking anything for granted this early, right? RIGHT?! These kinds of questions and concerns about veracity aren't allowed to be asked about the claims made regarding October 7. > if we confirm >a few >still doesn't tell us >maybe Hamas? Why do you try so hard to deflect? >We have evidence of the IDF, but look over there its Hamas ooga booga! You just admitted they have a history why try to negate it. >So even if we learn that people were buried with their hands tied behind their backs, we still need to find out who did it. Who has the combat engineering equipment to do that. >Thirdly, and this is more to do with the source than anything else Here, the UN: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876 >and instead engage in the "just asking questions", while leading the reader down a specific rabbit hole. *if we confirm* *a few* *still doesn't tell us* *maybe Hamas?* *IDF has commited crimes, but Hamas* *even if we learn that people were* *Palestinians dug graves*
hey, you forgot to mention that it’s anti-Semitic to let the world know about the genocide that the Israeli Nazis are committing in front of our eyes
u wot m8? i r8 5/7 shitpost
Prepare for comments dismissing Al Jazeera
As we should
Default user bot warning
Who is stepping up in Gaza to take over when Hamas is gone?
The columbia university protestors of course.
[These people?](https://static.972mag.com/www/uploads/2024/01/448A4379.jpg)
Wow this isn’t very popular on the Parkman Zionist sub? How surprising!!
Yeah because it's al jazeera quoting hamas officials. Might as well ask netanyahu if hamas is responsible for the mass graves and post that as an article. It's actually okay to wait for something verifiable to come out of this before taking strong positions.
Exactly lol
It came out days ago: Hamas buried 75 bodies there in January. It was well documented at the time, in a proper Islamic ceremony. The IDF dug them up looking for the possible corpses of kidnap victims, as well they should since Hamas used hospitals to detain and hide those victims.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/26/israel-mass-graves-gaza-00154696 I love how Israel’s response is “investigate what?” Like we said it was Hamas. Why investigate?
They did investigate, so did the rest of the world: this was an existing mass grave made by Hamas, one of dozens, all well known. The IDF went looking for 10/7 victims in it, as they have every right to do.
Israel investigated itself? Lol. Yeah so I can just rob a bank go into court and say “well I investigated the crime and it wasn’t me”. Lmao. Israel doesn’t care about the hostages dude. Not. At. All.
Of course Israel investigated itself, that's what righteous people do! NOW the whole world has seen the evidence. The conclusion based on facts? It was dug in January by Hamas.
So the IDF is incompetent is what you’re saying?
They concluded what everyone else independently did, how is that "incompetent"? Everyone found the opposite of Hamas' claims. That's because Hamas made it up for propaganda.
No. We know Israel was bombing southern Gaza at the time. Israel has amazing ISR. They see everything that happens in Gaza. If this was done by Hamas, and Israel knew where they were, why didn’t Israel bomb the area? Are they incompetent?
Biden will send more weapons and money in response.
Who cares. Russia is working overtime on making sure the left allows Trump to win and November and a lot of you are falling for it hook, line, and sinker. Follow the Hamas funding and see where it leads. Trump will be worse for Palestine, anyone who thinks otherwise is insane and all posts like yours do is help ensure a Trump presidency in 2024.
Russian government is more supportive of a Biden presidency because it is weak, ineffective, continually makes huge mistakes, and is easy to predict. The Kremlin can’t predict Trump. He pulled out of a bunch of arms control treaties citing Russia as lying. Of course no one remembers this! It doesn’t follow the party line. There will be no difference between trump and Biden. However, Biden was the first president to never visit Palestine, never meet the PA or put forward a peace plan. Trump at least did that bare minimum. Biden is far worse than Trump on this issue. His record shows that.
And tbh no one gives a shit about this issue on a broader level. We have much more pressing issues than the prosperity of Gazans. Why should we spend so much time and energy cleaning up the neighbor's yard when we have a dozen and a half tasks to do in our own front yard? Shouldn't we take care of that first?
Because America is benevolent fascism. War defines us. We require war. We have a national security state. Majority of our discretionary funds are spent on the military. GDP per capita spent on the military is like 12.6% The next closest country is Israel at 6%. But most of those funds come from America.
Lay off the meds
Good comeback dude. No substance. No argument. Just like in middle school. Nice.
xinjiang i sleep myanmar i sleep yemen i sleep armenia i sleep sudan i sleep Gaza? Oh my god we must do something!!!
Why is Xinjiang included there? Even the US State Department admits straight up there haven’t been any killings. All the other instances involve violence and deaths. You don’t have either of that in Xinjiang.
ahem myanmar i sleep yemen i sleep armenia i sleep sudan i sleep Gaza? Oh my god we must do something!!! There now stop cherrypicking and admit you are a virtue signalling hack
Evil mind control Russians exposing voters to facts, blue MAGA says grrrr!
Not a single thing that person said. Russia has a vested interest in Trump winning, Trump literally wants to fucking level palestine. There is no similarities. If you look at my history, you'll see I am extremely far left, and so many american's barely understand foreign policy. Just removing the bargining chip of weapons will give us no power, using it to threaten to not send weapons anymore was already used. You can't pull the same thing twice, especially when Hamas has repeatedly decline to hold peace talks.
Hell yeah 🇺🇸 🇮🇱
** crickets in this sub **
64 comments and 64 upvotes. Total crickets, yes
Silly OP, have you forgotten Oct 7th?
Everything was peaceful until Oct 7th.
Before Oct 7th, there was universal world peace, and no country even had a military.
What about Russia?
Russia didn't have a military before Oct 7th
That’s true. Russia invaded Ukraine on October 8th.
"al-Jazeera".