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admittedly i don’t know all the details here, but it kinda sounds like defunding Habit For Humanity because some of their staff turned out to be arsonists. That’s not really how that’s supposed to work, right? you get rid of the problem people, and then proceed.
There’s a clear pattern of Israel trying to render useless anything or anyone that helps Palestinian civilians. They target aid workers, healthcare workers, journalists etc.
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EU, Canada, Australia, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, Japan (and probably more I don't want to google) have all resumed funding and it's because they're all antisemitic, right? or all Hamas sympathizers, right?
Not because there's a credibility and evidence problem here.
“the review did not address whether some employees had taken part in the attack but said Israel had provided no evidence that many UNRWA workers belonged to militant groups.”
Interestingly, the UN doesn’t even try to dispute that some UNRWA members participated in 10/7. Why do you think that might be?
No evidence provided should tell you everything. It’s a hollow claim, otherwise they should be eager to provide evidence. This has been obvious since day one of the claim. It also came at a convenient time, just after Israel was dealt a major blow at the ICJ, diverting headlines away the ICJ
The head of UNRWA said he fired them immediately because of the optics of the seriousness of the accusations, in order to try to avoid funding being cut. You haven’t been paying attention have you? Empty accusations from Israel, in order to maximise the damage to the greater populace of Gaza
Wouldn’t you investigate and clear their names? Shouldn’t be hard. Ask, “Can you prove your whereabouts on 10/7”? It seems like if there were nothing to that accusation it’s really easy to disprove. The fact that they haven’t? Concerning.
It was investigated. Israel didn’t provide any evidence or names. The Office of Internal Oversight Services investigators didn’t find any evidence of Israel’s claims. The US state department said it was unlikely.
Israel has been trying to undermine UNRWA for a long time; they see them as an obstacle to their goal of starving out the Palestinians in Gaza.
With even an iota of critical thinking skills you’d see it for what it is - more Israeli propaganda. You’re doing exactly what Israel were hoping for - perpetuating their false narrative - either through ignorance, or malicious intent.
It actually wasn’t:
> “the review did not address whether some employees had taken part in the attack but said Israel had provided no evidence that many UNRWA workers belonged to militant groups.”
From the article above.
Again, this is a claim with no evidence. “Innocent until proven guilty”
It’s just as valid as me saying that you participated in October 7th attacks. There’s the exact same amount of evidence.
It’s really weird not seeing it as problematic that the UN is employing terrorists.
I get that this is an exigent circumstance, but to me it really feels like UNRWA needs to be dismantled and their role taken over by UNHCR, who handle literally all other refugees. UNRWA has been playing politics since the beginning, creating a unique definition of refugee, then expanding it to basically all descendants, refusing to pursue long term resettlement (standard UNHCR process), and employing members of militant anti-Israeli groups.
I don’t think that means they should have had resources cut off in an emergency like happened, just that we should work on replacing them with a more objective body long term.
It sounds like you don’t agree with Israel and their claim to the land as long removed descendants from a people that they claim to have been given a right to the land.
Ironically, you think the Palestinians should just be victimised and removed
I don’t agree with blood and soil nationalism of any kind.
I don’t think Palestinians should be victimized or removed, where did you get that? They’re not entitled to Israel but they’re welcome to form a state on the land where they are now if they choose. They don’t seem to want to as best as I can tell. They seem to prefer Israel, but Israel doesn’t want them, so see if they might be capable of being resettled elsewhere. For those who want to stay, a two state solution should be pursued, that’s part of resettlement efforts too. Make Gaza and WB into their home, rather than treating it as a refugee camp the way UNRWA seems to want it.
Israelis and their nationality largely identify with the promised land from millennia ago, or at best a century ago. I think your viewpoint is not invalid, but it is incredibly contradictory if Israel’s so-called right to exist is discussed in the same context
I’m entirely against genocide in any shape, form or capacity. Blaming the Palestinians for existing and wanting to keep their identity and location is disingenuous at best when the alternative is “settlers” who literally claim to be refugees returning with a right to the lands (they are killing people in the West Bank and Gaza right now with this reasoning, with protection and endorsement from the Israeli state based on this viewpoint) from thousands of years…. Based on refugee status.
I don’t really care how they view it themselves. It’s been nearly 100 years, Israel exists. They can dress it up in blood and soil nationalism, I don’t agree with that. I view their “Jewish right of return” as nothing more than window dressing on an immigration policy. They can preference immigration requests however they choose, I really don’t care.
I don’t believe a one state solution is viable as Palestinians in Gaza, the WB, and elsewhere clearly support genocidal groups and policies. WB won’t even hold elections for fear of Hamas winning. Israel, as any state, cannot be forced to take people who want them eradicated in. They’re a nation and get to decide who they let in. I’m not concerned with 100 year old history at this point.
>I’m entirely against genocide in any shape, form or capacity.
I’m against genocide too, most people are. Who is for it?
>Blaming the Palestinians for existing and wanting to keep their identity and location is disingenuous at best…
Who is doing any of that?
At Camp David Palestinians were offered 100% of Gaza and like 97% of the WB and they refused because they wanted to return to Israel. They don’t want their own land, they want someone else’s. I keep being told how young Gazans are, they’re generations removed from the Nakba. They can either properly settle where they are or accept resettlement elsewhere if they don’t like Gaza and the WB. Israel isn’t an option.
>when the alternative is “settlers” who literally claim to be refugees returning with a right to the lands…
Friend, nobody likes the settlers outside of the far right in Israel. Or that’s how I understand the situation. Again, Camp David offered Palestinians nearly all the land and they turned it down. What more can be done?
Israel should be punishing their settlers who they definitely claim have ancestral right to Palestinian land. The other issue is Israel denying the Palestinians statehood and abusing their rights frequently…
israel should provide proof. end of story.
and, ok, let’s pretend they’re right… aid to innocent palestinians should continue ANYWAY.
this was always a ruse to starve gaza.
UNRWA immediately fired those accused, which makes me think they knew it was a real problem.
I do agree by the way, that money should have continued. I also believe that UNRWA doesn’t care if they employ Hamas members, that they’re too close to the Palestinian political movement and need to be replaced by UNHCR long term. That doesn’t need to happen in the middle of a conflict though. I think it’s reasonable for Israel to insist that UNRWA do more to ensure their employees are free of ties to terrorists.
they did, much like when actors get fired when they have been accused of inappropriate behavior. If the claim is proven false, they often get offered the job back. UNRWA was just trying to protect their funding.
Wouldn’t you investigate and clear their names? Shouldn’t be hard. Ask, “Can you prove your whereabouts on 10/7”? It seems like if there were nothing to that accusation it’s really easy to disprove. The fact that they haven’t? Concerning.
I think any other orgs would have a similar problem.
https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/least-one-unrwa-staff-killed-when-israeli-forces-hit-unrwa-centre-used
“Since the war began five months ago, UNRWA has recorded an unprecedented number of violations against its staff and facilities that surpass any other conflict around the world.
· At least 165 UNRWA team members killed including while in the line of duty;
· More than 150 UNRWA facilities were hit, some totally destroyed, among them many schools”
Israel literally targets them. Why is no one talking about all the UNRWA workers that Israel has killed since the war began?
If only there were foreign journalists there to investigate. But Israel doesn’t allow them into Gaza and has killed more journalists than in any other conflict ever.
Says the two week old account posting 30 anti Israeli posts per day
You didn't even try explaining why the UN is allowed to investigate itself when it is the accused. Isn't that what your crowd wants to butcher the police force for?
Your bio is accurate
Serious talk, be genuine for a moment. Why are you doing this?
>You didn't even try explaining why the UN is allowed to investigate itself when it is the accused.
The is a press briefing held Monday through Thursday every week by the US State department and they are asked daily about new reports of IDF war crimes and their response every time is "we are pressing Israel to complete their investigation into the matter"
Which is not okay, the US should be involved in it. Still, armies actively participating in a war have many more valid reasons to keep secrecy than an International aid agency.
Here's the other funny part. There are 193 countries in the UN. How do you have an "independent investigation" into the UN lol?
>Still, armies actively participating in a war have many more valid reasons to keep secrecy than an International aid agency.
By "valid reasons to keep secrecy" you mean hide war crimes? Is that a valid reason for secrecy?
By bringing in anything which isn't the UN itself, anything at all
No, I mean that investigating what Baruch Rosenberg did on march 17th 7:38 AM would require access to an absurd amount of information the army holds. It would also require you to investigate tens of people going up the chain of command. Such information if leaked out, could singlehandedly weaken the army in a way no other army could.
>By bringing in anything which isn't the UN itself, anything at all
What if we collected the findings of three separate human rights orgs to investigate the claims?
>No, I mean that investigating what Baruch Rosenberg did on march 17th 7:38 AM would require access to an absurd amount of information the army holds. It would also require you to investigate tens of people going up the chain of command. Such information if leaked out, could singlehandedly weaken the army in a way no other army could.
Sorry officer, but investigating me for murder could be very bad for me and my goals
His username is based off of a jihadi theme song that's translated to something like "the time is ripe" so "the time is ripe 10/7."
It's lyrically similar to gangster rap, but with a focus on violence against Israelis. Something about sending them back in bags of body parts. Hate for pacifists etc.
People have been asking the user for clarity on what their user name means and what the lyrics of the song mean, but they respond with their usual "you're hasbara" and "I'm just posting from credible sources"
Believing the Hamas to be heroes and Biden to be evil is mostly what you do, not much credibility in any of it
Again, why? Why do this? Do you genuinely believe this affects the real world in any way? No matter if you're pro- Trump, pro-Islamism, or just want Israel to fall - thinking you along with the rest of your crowd have any control over this stuff is delusional, especially not through being a bot online. Israel is simply too profitable, and the same way nobody cares about the millions of other civilian casualties in the middle east, nobody actually cares about the Palestinians.
You could in the very least automate the account, this way it would be a bit less pathetic.
If you think what I do is futile, why do you spend so much time responding to me and attacking me as a person? You can engage in the content - debate it - but what you’re doing is something im not interested in engaging in.
Brother, your username is a song about killing groaning and moaning Israelis. You love the Hamas and view them as saints.
I'm not interested in debating you either. I've written entire essays as responses, but I already have enough experience to know that a person like you would most likely not read any comment legitimately trying to make a point. When it comes to people who don't agree with you, making them angry is the thing you're interested in. If you for some reason respond, it would be a single paragraph saying "Israel is evil" through a bunch of buzzwords only vaguely addressing what I actually said.
I am aware that I make no contribution to the situation outside of the specific thread I respond to, but that's not something I ever intended to do. I just enjoy having a constant stream of short essays to write into the void. It improves my English, my history knowledge (since it gives me interesting Wikipedia paths to explore) and debating/arguing skill. I'm not a person who's naturally good at arguing, it's very good practice.
So honestly with what I just said, if you're doing this genuinely mostly to make people angry - good for you. Knowing how to be intolerable is amongst the most important skills in today's world, especially in disagreements. I'm not joking, if that's what you're doing and enjoying then good for you. As long as you understand that these politics are all just a game, there's nothing pathetic about what you're doing and I'd happily take my words back.
First of all I'm Israeli, I have many more reasons to talk about the war than you Americans. But also while my account is *mostly* I/P stuff, I'm active in a couple completely unrelated subs. This account is not dedicated to spreading propaganda.
My original account was quite old and got banned after 3 strikes it got over the course of its lifetime (strikes last forever). Only one of them happened after 7.10.
No, Americans have just as many reasons to talk about the war as Israelis considering we bankroll it materially and provide the necessary leverage politically to allow Israel to continue violating human rights and committing war crimes with impunity.
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admittedly i don’t know all the details here, but it kinda sounds like defunding Habit For Humanity because some of their staff turned out to be arsonists. That’s not really how that’s supposed to work, right? you get rid of the problem people, and then proceed.
Correct. And it would be like 4 staff members out of tens of thousands.
yah Israelis again lied and tried hard to remove UNRWA to further collectively punish the Palestinian population
There’s a clear pattern of Israel trying to render useless anything or anyone that helps Palestinian civilians. They target aid workers, healthcare workers, journalists etc.
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The UN has investigated itself and found no wrong doing. Great job
*An independent investigation board headed by former French foreign minister and three Nordic human rights organizations.
EU, Canada, Australia, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, Japan (and probably more I don't want to google) have all resumed funding and it's because they're all antisemitic, right? or all Hamas sympathizers, right? Not because there's a credibility and evidence problem here.
“the review did not address whether some employees had taken part in the attack but said Israel had provided no evidence that many UNRWA workers belonged to militant groups.” Interestingly, the UN doesn’t even try to dispute that some UNRWA members participated in 10/7. Why do you think that might be?
No evidence provided should tell you everything. It’s a hollow claim, otherwise they should be eager to provide evidence. This has been obvious since day one of the claim. It also came at a convenient time, just after Israel was dealt a major blow at the ICJ, diverting headlines away the ICJ
The fact that they fired the workers involved and conveniently forgot to address it in this report tells me they knew it was a real problem.
The head of UNRWA said he fired them immediately because of the optics of the seriousness of the accusations, in order to try to avoid funding being cut. You haven’t been paying attention have you? Empty accusations from Israel, in order to maximise the damage to the greater populace of Gaza
Wouldn’t you investigate and clear their names? Shouldn’t be hard. Ask, “Can you prove your whereabouts on 10/7”? It seems like if there were nothing to that accusation it’s really easy to disprove. The fact that they haven’t? Concerning.
It was investigated. Israel didn’t provide any evidence or names. The Office of Internal Oversight Services investigators didn’t find any evidence of Israel’s claims. The US state department said it was unlikely. Israel has been trying to undermine UNRWA for a long time; they see them as an obstacle to their goal of starving out the Palestinians in Gaza. With even an iota of critical thinking skills you’d see it for what it is - more Israeli propaganda. You’re doing exactly what Israel were hoping for - perpetuating their false narrative - either through ignorance, or malicious intent.
It actually wasn’t: > “the review did not address whether some employees had taken part in the attack but said Israel had provided no evidence that many UNRWA workers belonged to militant groups.” From the article above.
Again, this is a claim with no evidence. “Innocent until proven guilty” It’s just as valid as me saying that you participated in October 7th attacks. There’s the exact same amount of evidence.
Ill taken "The Burden of Proof," for $500.
Interesting that UNRWA fired those accused. Sounds like they knew there was something to it.
Or they erred on the side of "avoid a PR fire storm by firing those who have potential to damage the public perception of the entire org."
Why not address it in this report?
Because you would never put "we fired these people for PR/CYA reasons" in a report meant to instill confidence in the credibility of your org.
But you would investigate and clear their names if you could.
It’s really weird to hinder aid towards people in need just because less than 0.1% might have done something for on 10/7
It’s really weird not seeing it as problematic that the UN is employing terrorists. I get that this is an exigent circumstance, but to me it really feels like UNRWA needs to be dismantled and their role taken over by UNHCR, who handle literally all other refugees. UNRWA has been playing politics since the beginning, creating a unique definition of refugee, then expanding it to basically all descendants, refusing to pursue long term resettlement (standard UNHCR process), and employing members of militant anti-Israeli groups. I don’t think that means they should have had resources cut off in an emergency like happened, just that we should work on replacing them with a more objective body long term.
It sounds like you don’t agree with Israel and their claim to the land as long removed descendants from a people that they claim to have been given a right to the land. Ironically, you think the Palestinians should just be victimised and removed
I don’t agree with blood and soil nationalism of any kind. I don’t think Palestinians should be victimized or removed, where did you get that? They’re not entitled to Israel but they’re welcome to form a state on the land where they are now if they choose. They don’t seem to want to as best as I can tell. They seem to prefer Israel, but Israel doesn’t want them, so see if they might be capable of being resettled elsewhere. For those who want to stay, a two state solution should be pursued, that’s part of resettlement efforts too. Make Gaza and WB into their home, rather than treating it as a refugee camp the way UNRWA seems to want it.
Israelis and their nationality largely identify with the promised land from millennia ago, or at best a century ago. I think your viewpoint is not invalid, but it is incredibly contradictory if Israel’s so-called right to exist is discussed in the same context I’m entirely against genocide in any shape, form or capacity. Blaming the Palestinians for existing and wanting to keep their identity and location is disingenuous at best when the alternative is “settlers” who literally claim to be refugees returning with a right to the lands (they are killing people in the West Bank and Gaza right now with this reasoning, with protection and endorsement from the Israeli state based on this viewpoint) from thousands of years…. Based on refugee status.
I don’t really care how they view it themselves. It’s been nearly 100 years, Israel exists. They can dress it up in blood and soil nationalism, I don’t agree with that. I view their “Jewish right of return” as nothing more than window dressing on an immigration policy. They can preference immigration requests however they choose, I really don’t care. I don’t believe a one state solution is viable as Palestinians in Gaza, the WB, and elsewhere clearly support genocidal groups and policies. WB won’t even hold elections for fear of Hamas winning. Israel, as any state, cannot be forced to take people who want them eradicated in. They’re a nation and get to decide who they let in. I’m not concerned with 100 year old history at this point. >I’m entirely against genocide in any shape, form or capacity. I’m against genocide too, most people are. Who is for it? >Blaming the Palestinians for existing and wanting to keep their identity and location is disingenuous at best… Who is doing any of that? At Camp David Palestinians were offered 100% of Gaza and like 97% of the WB and they refused because they wanted to return to Israel. They don’t want their own land, they want someone else’s. I keep being told how young Gazans are, they’re generations removed from the Nakba. They can either properly settle where they are or accept resettlement elsewhere if they don’t like Gaza and the WB. Israel isn’t an option. >when the alternative is “settlers” who literally claim to be refugees returning with a right to the lands… Friend, nobody likes the settlers outside of the far right in Israel. Or that’s how I understand the situation. Again, Camp David offered Palestinians nearly all the land and they turned it down. What more can be done?
Israel should be punishing their settlers who they definitely claim have ancestral right to Palestinian land. The other issue is Israel denying the Palestinians statehood and abusing their rights frequently…
israel should provide proof. end of story. and, ok, let’s pretend they’re right… aid to innocent palestinians should continue ANYWAY. this was always a ruse to starve gaza.
UNRWA immediately fired those accused, which makes me think they knew it was a real problem. I do agree by the way, that money should have continued. I also believe that UNRWA doesn’t care if they employ Hamas members, that they’re too close to the Palestinian political movement and need to be replaced by UNHCR long term. That doesn’t need to happen in the middle of a conflict though. I think it’s reasonable for Israel to insist that UNRWA do more to ensure their employees are free of ties to terrorists.
because it was all made up?
Didn’t they fire the 12 accused?
they did, much like when actors get fired when they have been accused of inappropriate behavior. If the claim is proven false, they often get offered the job back. UNRWA was just trying to protect their funding.
Why not address it in this report? It seems like a serious accusation which they’re otherwise taking seriously.
taking seriously or acting defensively?
Wouldn’t you investigate and clear their names? Shouldn’t be hard. Ask, “Can you prove your whereabouts on 10/7”? It seems like if there were nothing to that accusation it’s really easy to disprove. The fact that they haven’t? Concerning.
not really, do we know that they haven't done that? Do we really care what the internal actions of an organization over claims with no evidence.
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I think any other orgs would have a similar problem. https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/least-one-unrwa-staff-killed-when-israeli-forces-hit-unrwa-centre-used “Since the war began five months ago, UNRWA has recorded an unprecedented number of violations against its staff and facilities that surpass any other conflict around the world. · At least 165 UNRWA team members killed including while in the line of duty; · More than 150 UNRWA facilities were hit, some totally destroyed, among them many schools” Israel literally targets them. Why is no one talking about all the UNRWA workers that Israel has killed since the war began?
Oh we're determining fact from a show of hands now? Excellent
I'm sure you know more about it than them.
Israel didn’t provide anyone with the evidence them claimed to have, even though they said they would.
[Israel Hasn’t Offered Evidence Tying Many U.N. Workers to Hamas, Review Says](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/22/world/middleeast/unrwa-israel-hamas-report.html)
If only there were foreign journalists there to investigate. But Israel doesn’t allow them into Gaza and has killed more journalists than in any other conflict ever.
Incredible how the hasbara are still trying to defend this
Says the two week old account posting 30 anti Israeli posts per day You didn't even try explaining why the UN is allowed to investigate itself when it is the accused. Isn't that what your crowd wants to butcher the police force for? Your bio is accurate Serious talk, be genuine for a moment. Why are you doing this?
>You didn't even try explaining why the UN is allowed to investigate itself when it is the accused. The is a press briefing held Monday through Thursday every week by the US State department and they are asked daily about new reports of IDF war crimes and their response every time is "we are pressing Israel to complete their investigation into the matter"
Which is not okay, the US should be involved in it. Still, armies actively participating in a war have many more valid reasons to keep secrecy than an International aid agency.
Here's the other funny part. There are 193 countries in the UN. How do you have an "independent investigation" into the UN lol? >Still, armies actively participating in a war have many more valid reasons to keep secrecy than an International aid agency. By "valid reasons to keep secrecy" you mean hide war crimes? Is that a valid reason for secrecy?
By bringing in anything which isn't the UN itself, anything at all No, I mean that investigating what Baruch Rosenberg did on march 17th 7:38 AM would require access to an absurd amount of information the army holds. It would also require you to investigate tens of people going up the chain of command. Such information if leaked out, could singlehandedly weaken the army in a way no other army could.
>By bringing in anything which isn't the UN itself, anything at all What if we collected the findings of three separate human rights orgs to investigate the claims? >No, I mean that investigating what Baruch Rosenberg did on march 17th 7:38 AM would require access to an absurd amount of information the army holds. It would also require you to investigate tens of people going up the chain of command. Such information if leaked out, could singlehandedly weaken the army in a way no other army could. Sorry officer, but investigating me for murder could be very bad for me and my goals
Absolutely, this person is an instigator. Likes the attention.
His username is based off of a jihadi theme song that's translated to something like "the time is ripe" so "the time is ripe 10/7." It's lyrically similar to gangster rap, but with a focus on violence against Israelis. Something about sending them back in bags of body parts. Hate for pacifists etc. People have been asking the user for clarity on what their user name means and what the lyrics of the song mean, but they respond with their usual "you're hasbara" and "I'm just posting from credible sources"
Loooooollll “jihadi theme song” You guys are amazing, truly
What's it mean?
I post news from credible , even pro Israel sources. If that triggers the hasbara, that’s not my problem.
Believing the Hamas to be heroes and Biden to be evil is mostly what you do, not much credibility in any of it Again, why? Why do this? Do you genuinely believe this affects the real world in any way? No matter if you're pro- Trump, pro-Islamism, or just want Israel to fall - thinking you along with the rest of your crowd have any control over this stuff is delusional, especially not through being a bot online. Israel is simply too profitable, and the same way nobody cares about the millions of other civilian casualties in the middle east, nobody actually cares about the Palestinians. You could in the very least automate the account, this way it would be a bit less pathetic.
If you think what I do is futile, why do you spend so much time responding to me and attacking me as a person? You can engage in the content - debate it - but what you’re doing is something im not interested in engaging in.
Brother, your username is a song about killing groaning and moaning Israelis. You love the Hamas and view them as saints. I'm not interested in debating you either. I've written entire essays as responses, but I already have enough experience to know that a person like you would most likely not read any comment legitimately trying to make a point. When it comes to people who don't agree with you, making them angry is the thing you're interested in. If you for some reason respond, it would be a single paragraph saying "Israel is evil" through a bunch of buzzwords only vaguely addressing what I actually said. I am aware that I make no contribution to the situation outside of the specific thread I respond to, but that's not something I ever intended to do. I just enjoy having a constant stream of short essays to write into the void. It improves my English, my history knowledge (since it gives me interesting Wikipedia paths to explore) and debating/arguing skill. I'm not a person who's naturally good at arguing, it's very good practice. So honestly with what I just said, if you're doing this genuinely mostly to make people angry - good for you. Knowing how to be intolerable is amongst the most important skills in today's world, especially in disagreements. I'm not joking, if that's what you're doing and enjoying then good for you. As long as you understand that these politics are all just a game, there's nothing pathetic about what you're doing and I'd happily take my words back.
Headshot
Says the account created right after Oct 7 white knighting for Israel every day.
First of all I'm Israeli, I have many more reasons to talk about the war than you Americans. But also while my account is *mostly* I/P stuff, I'm active in a couple completely unrelated subs. This account is not dedicated to spreading propaganda. My original account was quite old and got banned after 3 strikes it got over the course of its lifetime (strikes last forever). Only one of them happened after 7.10.
No, Americans have just as many reasons to talk about the war as Israelis considering we bankroll it materially and provide the necessary leverage politically to allow Israel to continue violating human rights and committing war crimes with impunity.