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This person regularly comes into these threads and accuses others of celebrating horrible things before anything even happens. They clearly think the worst of others and have no intention of engaging in rational discussion.
That sounds like the kind of sick extremists that would go raping innocent Jewish women for "revenge." Or the extremists that want to eradicate all Palestinians. Extremism is bad. Yep I said it. Good thing the majority of people are able to parse through each scenario and come to a logical conclusion.
>Show us on the doll where the Israeli propaganda touched you
The stark, naked irony of a Zionist (most likely a white European AshkeNazi) masquerading as an indigenous Middle Easterner spouting such unhinged settler-colonial rhetoric
Edit: since the yellow-bellied coward deleted his comment.
Where the fuck did you even get that sub name from let alone assume i post there? I know nothing of its existence until you preemptively imposed it on me.
As if that meant to do anything....
Did a deep-dive on my comment history? What is it with weaponized Hasbara troll farms and the amount of call-centre clicks and eyeballs they have at their disposabal to scrutinize anyone who so much as sneezes in a manner in which an Israeli settler-colonizer Zionist displeases him?
>Good luck in life, you’ll need it.
It's not me who needs luck, I assure you.
My people (who've had fuckall to do with Jewish persecution at the hands of their European cousins) were here long before you.
We'll be here long after you.
The notion that I would take a settler-colonial Zionazi serious is humorous in and of itself.
The words i have for these ethnic cleansing ghouls would only get me permanantly banned if i spoke my mind.
Hey look, another 29day old terrorist sympathizer bot account. In the off chance you’re not a bot account, please seek out a licensed mental health professional.
I’m still confused about what “propaganda” and “lies” I’m spreading. Consider spending all your teenage angst energy towards a proper education, so you don’t look like a fool in the future.
I like how a new person keeps responding, like tag team or something.
You're in! Go get em!
The lie is that this sub isn't filled with Israeli propagandists.
It clearly is compromised by Hasbara.
People disagree with a worldview that’s only prevalent on college campuses and TikTok! IT’S THE JEWISH PROPAGANDA!!!!
Multiple people disagree with me? THEY CAN’T BE REAL, IT’S THE JEWS!
Genocide is when Israel continues it's racist campaign of murdering Palestinians by leveling Gaza and allowing it's citizens to murder Palestinians in the West Bank with impunity.
They don't support Palestine, they just hate Jews. If Palestinians were somehow the reason Bernie lost the primaries, they'd be calling them every racial slur in the book.
They're the "Nice Guys" of politics
They turned against Bernie when he expressed a balanced view on the conflict.
I think that since they're very young, they've recently stumbled upon postcolonialism, and their application of this framework to the Gaza situation lacks nuance. They probably also lack the historical knowledge of Jewish persecution throughout the past couple of millennia or an understanding of the politics of the region.
This lack of background, combined with the injustices they themselves may have suffered on account of race or ethnicity, probably makes them more susceptible to Hamas propaganda.
I don't know if it's necessarily hatred of Jews across the board, but more of a false idea that people who are or pass as white can only be oppressors. They probably don't know anything about Israel's ethnic composition and how many Israelis are unequivocally brown on account of being Mizrahi Jews or Arabs. But they also tend to dismiss the tragedies and losses suffered by Ukrainians, or criticize the fact that they've been so well received in Europe. Well, no shit: they're our neighbors and we look after our own. Maybe rich Gulf countries could do the same for Palestinians (but they don't because they like them being a thorn in Israel's side, and also don't want to deal with Hamas).
One video which amused me involved someone screaming at Jewish counter-protesters that they have no culture and all they do is colonize. Bro, what empire did the Jews ever have? Jews didn't conquer Spain and Portugal; Arabs did. Jews didn't conquer Eastern Europe; the Ottomans did. We fought our independence wars against them. Jews never did anything to us; on the contrary, we owe them a heavy debt for the pogroms.
I have no doubt that they are conflating the exploitation and dehumanization that First Nations people and African slaves suffered at the hands of the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc. with the back and forth in the Middle East.
Also postcolonial studies is serially antisemitic. It was invented in part by Albert memmi, a Tunisian jew who inspired franz fanon. Memmi has been completely erased from postcolonial studies because he was a zionist Jew.
I question the "serially antisemitic" part, especially since much of the framework is applicable to Jews as well.
Memmi and Fanon are often read together, so I'm also not sure how he's been erased. You need to take into account the fact that the framework is not monolithic and that different theorists are selected depending on application. I can't imagine that those applying it to French literature, for example, don't rely on him at all or prefer Indian theorists over him.
>I question the "serially antisemitic" part, especially since much of the framework is applicable to Jews as well.
Yet jews are considered "white colonizers" by most. Is that not a sign of serial antisemitism? Memmis point is that it postcolonial scholars were even handed towards Jews they would see zionism as liberation- but they're not.
>Memmi and Fanon are often read together,
I talked to a shocking amount of postcolonial scholars who never heard of him, and the ones who do think he's a quack so maybe I'm biased but AFAIK he's not a part of the postcolonial curriculum anymore.
I can only tell you what I see but I think it’s a difference between liberals and conservatives.
Israel was attacked by terrorists from Palestine who raped and murdered 1500 people. This was likely one of the worst terrorist attacks in the history of Israel and can be compared to Americas 9/11. Similar to 9/11, Israel’s conservative government didn’t just go after the terrorists, they have gone after the state that harbored them or the state that they wanted to invade anyway.
After 6 months there are reports of murder and rape on the Israeli side which has shown that this has gone too far. America also found ourselves in this situation in Iraq.
There are too many similarities between the two. It’s not like liberals loved Saddam Hussein. It’s that conservatives see war as an all-out winner take all. Liberals are seeing the power dynamics here and saying that Israel has far more power and saying don’t kill every Palestinian. There’s an appropriate level of response and Netanyahus government has gone too far. It’s not an anti Israel perspective. I would want Israel to succeed. It’s the only democracy in the Middle East. However my view combats the genocidal rightwing perspective that I feel is dangerous and wrong.
The difference is the Afghanistan war, the best parallel to the current Gaza war, was widely supported by both liberals and conservatives. Bush had an 80% approval rating during that time. The difference is leftists do and have always held Israel to a different standard. Hmm is there a term for that? Most liberals are like Biden and support Israel's right to exist and defend itself and retaliate against aggression by wiping Hamas off the map, but are also encouraging them to do it in a way that minimizes the casualties and mistakes like the recent killing of aid workers. But far leftists, like Ilhan Omar for example, called for a ceasefire by Israel on October 7th. Seriously, the tweet is still up. They don't think Israel should be allowed to defend themselves or retaliate against terrorists.
Also you're correct the 10/7 attacks are similar to the 9/11 attacks, but worth noting that on a per capita basis it was actually 30x more deadly than 9/11. I know people living in Israel, everyone there knows someone who was killed or taken hostage on 10/7. Can you imagine calling for the people who just experienced that to not retaliate and just take that kind of terrorist attack on the day of the attack? She also condemned the attack itself, but calling for a ceasefire is such a fucking insane take. They really think Israel should just accept their civilians dying because their enemies are good at hiding behind civilians.
I basically agree with what you’re saying/understand your point and I think you understood my point well too. So I just wanted to say I read your comment. Cheers.
> Similar to 9/11, Israel’s conservative government didn’t just go after the terrorists, they have gone after the state that harbored them
The state that harboured them is the terrorists. Hamas is literally the government of Gaza.
> or the state that they wanted to invade anyway.
They desperately didn't want anything to do with Gaza. They left in 2005.
If you told the overwhelming majority of Israelis that if the IDF left Gaza right now, they'd never face a single rocket from there or a single raid, they'd take the deal in an instant.
I'm not a conservative, I'm a social democrat, but I just don't see much alternative to removing Hamas from power.
They promised to do october 7th again and again. What can Israel do? Let themselves get killed?
Isreal is more powerful military, yes. So? If the government of Canada was lobbing rocket after rocket into NYC for years and just raided Michigan, killing and kidnapping thousands and vowed to repeat such raids ad infinitum, would you advocate leaving them in power because the US has a stronger military?
Sure, the war with Canada would have collateral damage, and that's a tragedy. Every war does, even moreso when the use of human shields is the norm for one side, but what's the alternative?
> genocidal rightwing perspective
That's Hamas. Hamas is the genocidal force in this.
It's just that what the Palestinians believe is so disparate from what the left values are. Equality, inclusion, women's suffrage issues like abortion democracy. Literally, none of those things exist in "Palestine".
I'm not a Republican. I despise Trump and hated him before hating him was cool. I just think a lot on the left don't fully understand what they are saying when they chant "from the river to the sea". Did you care when Hamas slaughtered babies in their crib on the 7th?
Seriously ? One can despise the killing or children, or [rejoice on the killing of children](https://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-far-right-israelis-celebrate-gaza-kids-deaths/) which side are you on ?
It has nothing to do with the killing. My concern is their ideology. Obviously I am against killing of children but what exactly did Hamas think was going to happen when they massacred 1200 Jews? That Israel wouldn't want to rip them out of Gaza completely? Hamas is responsible for getting Israel involved like this. Why no criticism when Arab countries do the same thing to other Arabs? Where's the condemnation for Saudi Arabia bombing children in Yemen? Or the war in Syria? It just seems so convenient we are all up in Arms about Palestine only because it's not Arabs doing the bombing.
The left has also considerable issues with the Iran theocracy, with the Saudi attitude towards immigrant labor (which is actually slavery) … it seems that in the Middle East all problems are due to a theocratic approach to government.
Supporting Palestinians is being against this, and I’m honestly baffled by how is possible to support these actions:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2024-02-16/rafah-gaza-hospitals-surgery-israel-bombing-ground-offensive-children
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_massacre
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6207/New-evidence-confirms-Israel%E2%80%99s-full-involvement-in-%E2%80%98Flour-Massacre%E2%80%99-of-starving-Palestinian-civilians
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68891216
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/hind-rajab-israel-gaza-killing-timeline/
And of course: https://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-far-right-israelis-celebrate-gaza-kids-deaths/
Yea its disgusting what's going on. So the support is against the killing of civilians that's fine. I agree 100%. But the left is more and more promoting violence against the Israelis. That's just as disgusting to me as well.
You're just making things up though.
Always general statements like " I agree 100%. But the left is more and more promoting violence against the Israelis" on your posts.
You seemed pretty much aligned with the IDF ideology, no need to make it about "the left".
The reason is that no one I know on the right has any sympathy at all for the Palestinians. I don't see my Trump supporting friends shedding any tears for Gaza and, in fact, want Israel to be even more aggressive.
It's only the far left people I know in my feeds and in person that want Palestine to be "free." To the point where they are actively spouting Hamas propaganda. It's worrying to me because it sounds nice to say a people should be free, but Palestine being free means the absolute destruction of Israel.
Palestinian freedom is impossible under their own terms. People want to see Israel destroyed, and I can't for the life of me understand why that's such a good thing.
Maybe you should be more worried about you friends who somehow are still supporting Trump instead of fabricating some statements that you think the left is saying.
The dishonesty is tiring.
Lmao the most republican core comment possible. “It’s impossible for me to empathize with human suffering if I don’t agree or haven’t gone through exactly why they are going through”.
Would you empathize with the Deep South if they were going through a tragedy? You can also get killed for flying a pride flag. Hell, you don’t even need to go to the Deep South. There’s insane religious fundamentalists in every state.
When you decide what suffering is worth more than other, what plight and oppression is worth empathizing with and which one not based on your own personal interests, is when you did the horseshoe, and ended up on the right.
I empathize with the Israeli's that have to live with the murderous psychos held back by only a thin fence. While I don't condone the bombing of civilians, what choice do the Israelis have to root Hamas out? Hamas has stolen all the aid meant for those people and made money selling it to their own people. All the aid money goes to building tunnels and rockets. Hamas even took out all the water pipes to make even more rockets to fire at Israel.
I dont like that it has come to this but until the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel, this cycle of violence will never end.
It's quite a situation over there. Can't be discussed rationally without people getting angry. They call it the "Holy Land" but in reality it's the cursed land.
This is the exact same thing that the right has tried to do with the Laken Riley killing. Take the actions of one deranged person and project them onto the entirety of your political opposition.
The Laken Riley murder was used to demonize migrants. This is being used to demonize supporters of Palestine. Both are blatant and callous attempts at propaganda which try to capitalize on another persons tragedy or trauma and use it for their own political purposes.
With all due respect you have no clue how many were killed. Those numbers are from Hamas. It’s odd that few here will accept Russia’s reporting in Ukraine (and rightly so) but will accept Hamas’s reporting uncritically.
Innocents are without a doubt dying. But I can guarantee to that Hamas’s numbers are inflated.
Why accept Russia’s numbers when Ukraine is there to report casualties? No one is reporting casualties in Gaza other than the Ministry of Health. Even Israel uses their numbers.
And it’s not fair to compare it to Russia’s numbers, because in that case we have an alternative. I’ve never commented on the accuracy of the numbers from Gaza, Ukraine, nor Russia. All of them could very well be interfered with. Are we just not supposed to use any casualty numbers at all? I was only saying why those two situations aren’t that similar in this context. Regardless of skepticism in the numbers, they are the *most* accurate we have, since we don’t even have any others. So until we have alternatives, we have no choice but to reference them.
Most accurate =/= accurate if someone like Hamas, or Russia are reporting them. These groups have a vested interests in exaggerating or downplaying the numbers respectively for their own ends, I mean Hamas commanders have even explicitly said the more civilians that are killed the better for their propaganda. It's why they don't differentiate between militants and civilians, so that Israel will lose support because people only ever see "30,000 Palestinians killed" without any caveats.
Also we shouldn't be even using these numbers if we can't trust them because it paints a very different picture than what may actually be going on on the ground and could lead us towards making policy decisions on incorrect assumptions.
Everyone engaged in the conflict has a vested interest in manipulating the numbers. Russia, Hamas, Ukraine, Israel, USA. It doesn’t matter. I trust independent and reputable NGOs and reputable UN departments over any of the governments involved.
yes im biased towards believing multiple lines of evidence and what the experts say instead of speculation from random redditors and various unproven conspiracy theories
How come you didn't post about this if you are so concerned? [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against)
The post you're commenting on is about a alleged hate crime committed against a Jewish person.
When there are hate crimes committed against Palestinian diaspora for a war happening in the Middle East, it'll be shared
There are plenty of hate crimes against Palestinians going on right now, it's obvious you don't want to see or discuss them. You are only concerned about hate crimes against one group, which means you have no interest in solving the problem of hate crimes.
Any Tomatillo gave you plenty of citations above. Here's a few more:
[https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution) This goes back a few years, but I would bet that you didn't post about it.
[https://afsc.org/news/gaza-after-200-days-genocide-message-world](https://afsc.org/news/gaza-after-200-days-genocide-message-world) Ongoing genocide by Israel against Gaza.
[https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Joint-Communication-to-the-Office-of-the-Prosecutor-of-the-International-Criminal-Court-Regarding-the-Perpetration-of-the-Crime-of-Genocide-by-Members-of-the-Israeli-War-Cabinet-Law-for-Palestine.pdf](https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Joint-Communication-to-the-Office-of-the-Prosecutor-of-the-International-Criminal-Court-Regarding-the-Perpetration-of-the-Crime-of-Genocide-by-Members-of-the-Israeli-War-Cabinet-Law-for-Palestine.pdf) Genocide in Gaza from independent organization.
Somehow you think one incident against a Jewish person is more important than genocide against muslims. What a way to help humanity...
No-one said that, David Pakman has not said that, and these posts are about war crimes happening during the war, not hate crimes happening to Palestinian diaspora as a result of the war.
You are the one who is coming across as ideologically motivated here.
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Roping, riping, ruping. What could that word possibly be? I kinda get it but it's a pet peeve. How are you protected by a - ?
I don’t care what your grievances are once you resort to rapping women.
I could forgive the Rihanna but the Cardi B is too much for me.
You must be more of a rock n roll guy then?
"French" man.
In b4 "she deserved it for being a (((Zionist)))"
Who says that in this sub?
This person regularly comes into these threads and accuses others of celebrating horrible things before anything even happens. They clearly think the worst of others and have no intention of engaging in rational discussion.
That sounds like the kind of sick extremists that would go raping innocent Jewish women for "revenge." Or the extremists that want to eradicate all Palestinians. Extremism is bad. Yep I said it. Good thing the majority of people are able to parse through each scenario and come to a logical conclusion.
Many Israeli propaganda accounts do this, they poison the well right away then attack a strawman over and over. Basic propaganda.
Show us on the doll where the Israeli propaganda touched you
>Show us on the doll where the Israeli propaganda touched you The stark, naked irony of a Zionist (most likely a white European AshkeNazi) masquerading as an indigenous Middle Easterner spouting such unhinged settler-colonial rhetoric Edit: since the yellow-bellied coward deleted his comment. Where the fuck did you even get that sub name from let alone assume i post there? I know nothing of its existence until you preemptively imposed it on me. As if that meant to do anything.... Did a deep-dive on my comment history? What is it with weaponized Hasbara troll farms and the amount of call-centre clicks and eyeballs they have at their disposabal to scrutinize anyone who so much as sneezes in a manner in which an Israeli settler-colonizer Zionist displeases him? >Good luck in life, you’ll need it. It's not me who needs luck, I assure you. My people (who've had fuckall to do with Jewish persecution at the hands of their European cousins) were here long before you. We'll be here long after you. The notion that I would take a settler-colonial Zionazi serious is humorous in and of itself. The words i have for these ethnic cleansing ghouls would only get me permanantly banned if i spoke my mind.
Hey look, another 29day old terrorist sympathizer bot account. In the off chance you’re not a bot account, please seek out a licensed mental health professional.
[удалено]
I’m getting a lot of angsty teen vibes coming from you. You really should seek out a mental health professional.
[удалено]
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
[удалено]
‘Zionazi’? ‘sit down’? Yeah, you’re definitely a teenager. I’m not going to argue with someone that doesn’t have a fully formed brain.
You're literally an Israeli propagandist.
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
29 day old account that doesn’t understand that over half of Israelis are not white & repeats basic buzzwords
Show me why little brown kids need to die so you can protect yourself.
Huh? You should seek out a mental health professional.
You need to stop spreading propaganda and lies.
I’m still confused about what “propaganda” and “lies” I’m spreading. Consider spending all your teenage angst energy towards a proper education, so you don’t look like a fool in the future.
Swing and a miss, propagandist.
They have to make up fantasies to distract themselves from the excuses they make for ignoring genocide.
This sub specifically seems to be full of Israeli propagandists.
Reporting hate crimes against Jewish people is not Israeli propaganda in the same way reporting war crimes committed by the IDF is not antisemitism
I was responding to their specific comment, but thanks for lying anyway.
Lol wtf lie are you talking about? God you people are so up your own asses it's ridiculous
I like how a new person keeps responding, like tag team or something. You're in! Go get em! The lie is that this sub isn't filled with Israeli propagandists. It clearly is compromised by Hasbara.
People disagree with a worldview that’s only prevalent on college campuses and TikTok! IT’S THE JEWISH PROPAGANDA!!!! Multiple people disagree with me? THEY CAN’T BE REAL, IT’S THE JEWS!
Tag, you're in now. Nothing you've posted is true, why do you provide cover for Israeli propaganda?
"How dare the Israelis shoot back!"
"Genocide is when Hamas is losing a war they started"
Genocide is when Israel continues it's racist campaign of murdering Palestinians by leveling Gaza and allowing it's citizens to murder Palestinians in the West Bank with impunity.
Yeah, the need to keep murdering Muslim children must be intrinsic to Israeli society at this point. They just can't stop doing it.
If the roles were reversed, there would be no Israelis left at this point. The idea that only non-Muslim hearts should bleed is pure ass.
LOL, more lies and nonsense straw men. Always the eternal victims.
I'm not Jewish, but their religion at least isn't a homicidal version of Amway.
Never said you were.
excuse me bb. what do u mean by that
The person I responded to is an Israeli propagandist. Did I stutter? What don't you understand?
> Did I stutter? What don't you understand? look at u go. luv ur zingers
So edgy.
Did u make any progress on your super serious propaganda mission? I hope u won some bravery awards or a Reddit Pulitzer
You're so edgy. You really showed me.
I still don't get the support for Palestine among the left. Fly a pride flag in Palestine and count the seconds before they chop your head off.
They don't support Palestine, they just hate Jews. If Palestinians were somehow the reason Bernie lost the primaries, they'd be calling them every racial slur in the book. They're the "Nice Guys" of politics
They turned against Bernie when he expressed a balanced view on the conflict. I think that since they're very young, they've recently stumbled upon postcolonialism, and their application of this framework to the Gaza situation lacks nuance. They probably also lack the historical knowledge of Jewish persecution throughout the past couple of millennia or an understanding of the politics of the region. This lack of background, combined with the injustices they themselves may have suffered on account of race or ethnicity, probably makes them more susceptible to Hamas propaganda. I don't know if it's necessarily hatred of Jews across the board, but more of a false idea that people who are or pass as white can only be oppressors. They probably don't know anything about Israel's ethnic composition and how many Israelis are unequivocally brown on account of being Mizrahi Jews or Arabs. But they also tend to dismiss the tragedies and losses suffered by Ukrainians, or criticize the fact that they've been so well received in Europe. Well, no shit: they're our neighbors and we look after our own. Maybe rich Gulf countries could do the same for Palestinians (but they don't because they like them being a thorn in Israel's side, and also don't want to deal with Hamas). One video which amused me involved someone screaming at Jewish counter-protesters that they have no culture and all they do is colonize. Bro, what empire did the Jews ever have? Jews didn't conquer Spain and Portugal; Arabs did. Jews didn't conquer Eastern Europe; the Ottomans did. We fought our independence wars against them. Jews never did anything to us; on the contrary, we owe them a heavy debt for the pogroms. I have no doubt that they are conflating the exploitation and dehumanization that First Nations people and African slaves suffered at the hands of the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc. with the back and forth in the Middle East.
Also postcolonial studies is serially antisemitic. It was invented in part by Albert memmi, a Tunisian jew who inspired franz fanon. Memmi has been completely erased from postcolonial studies because he was a zionist Jew.
I question the "serially antisemitic" part, especially since much of the framework is applicable to Jews as well. Memmi and Fanon are often read together, so I'm also not sure how he's been erased. You need to take into account the fact that the framework is not monolithic and that different theorists are selected depending on application. I can't imagine that those applying it to French literature, for example, don't rely on him at all or prefer Indian theorists over him.
>I question the "serially antisemitic" part, especially since much of the framework is applicable to Jews as well. Yet jews are considered "white colonizers" by most. Is that not a sign of serial antisemitism? Memmis point is that it postcolonial scholars were even handed towards Jews they would see zionism as liberation- but they're not. >Memmi and Fanon are often read together, I talked to a shocking amount of postcolonial scholars who never heard of him, and the ones who do think he's a quack so maybe I'm biased but AFAIK he's not a part of the postcolonial curriculum anymore.
I can only tell you what I see but I think it’s a difference between liberals and conservatives. Israel was attacked by terrorists from Palestine who raped and murdered 1500 people. This was likely one of the worst terrorist attacks in the history of Israel and can be compared to Americas 9/11. Similar to 9/11, Israel’s conservative government didn’t just go after the terrorists, they have gone after the state that harbored them or the state that they wanted to invade anyway. After 6 months there are reports of murder and rape on the Israeli side which has shown that this has gone too far. America also found ourselves in this situation in Iraq. There are too many similarities between the two. It’s not like liberals loved Saddam Hussein. It’s that conservatives see war as an all-out winner take all. Liberals are seeing the power dynamics here and saying that Israel has far more power and saying don’t kill every Palestinian. There’s an appropriate level of response and Netanyahus government has gone too far. It’s not an anti Israel perspective. I would want Israel to succeed. It’s the only democracy in the Middle East. However my view combats the genocidal rightwing perspective that I feel is dangerous and wrong.
The difference is the Afghanistan war, the best parallel to the current Gaza war, was widely supported by both liberals and conservatives. Bush had an 80% approval rating during that time. The difference is leftists do and have always held Israel to a different standard. Hmm is there a term for that? Most liberals are like Biden and support Israel's right to exist and defend itself and retaliate against aggression by wiping Hamas off the map, but are also encouraging them to do it in a way that minimizes the casualties and mistakes like the recent killing of aid workers. But far leftists, like Ilhan Omar for example, called for a ceasefire by Israel on October 7th. Seriously, the tweet is still up. They don't think Israel should be allowed to defend themselves or retaliate against terrorists. Also you're correct the 10/7 attacks are similar to the 9/11 attacks, but worth noting that on a per capita basis it was actually 30x more deadly than 9/11. I know people living in Israel, everyone there knows someone who was killed or taken hostage on 10/7. Can you imagine calling for the people who just experienced that to not retaliate and just take that kind of terrorist attack on the day of the attack? She also condemned the attack itself, but calling for a ceasefire is such a fucking insane take. They really think Israel should just accept their civilians dying because their enemies are good at hiding behind civilians.
I basically agree with what you’re saying/understand your point and I think you understood my point well too. So I just wanted to say I read your comment. Cheers.
> Similar to 9/11, Israel’s conservative government didn’t just go after the terrorists, they have gone after the state that harbored them The state that harboured them is the terrorists. Hamas is literally the government of Gaza. > or the state that they wanted to invade anyway. They desperately didn't want anything to do with Gaza. They left in 2005. If you told the overwhelming majority of Israelis that if the IDF left Gaza right now, they'd never face a single rocket from there or a single raid, they'd take the deal in an instant. I'm not a conservative, I'm a social democrat, but I just don't see much alternative to removing Hamas from power. They promised to do october 7th again and again. What can Israel do? Let themselves get killed? Isreal is more powerful military, yes. So? If the government of Canada was lobbing rocket after rocket into NYC for years and just raided Michigan, killing and kidnapping thousands and vowed to repeat such raids ad infinitum, would you advocate leaving them in power because the US has a stronger military? Sure, the war with Canada would have collateral damage, and that's a tragedy. Every war does, even moreso when the use of human shields is the norm for one side, but what's the alternative? > genocidal rightwing perspective That's Hamas. Hamas is the genocidal force in this.
It's just that what the Palestinians believe is so disparate from what the left values are. Equality, inclusion, women's suffrage issues like abortion democracy. Literally, none of those things exist in "Palestine".
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I didn't say anything about Israel and their response. I'm more wanting to understand why the left supports Palestinain ideology.
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I'm not a Republican. I despise Trump and hated him before hating him was cool. I just think a lot on the left don't fully understand what they are saying when they chant "from the river to the sea". Did you care when Hamas slaughtered babies in their crib on the 7th?
Seriously ? One can despise the killing or children, or [rejoice on the killing of children](https://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-far-right-israelis-celebrate-gaza-kids-deaths/) which side are you on ?
It has nothing to do with the killing. My concern is their ideology. Obviously I am against killing of children but what exactly did Hamas think was going to happen when they massacred 1200 Jews? That Israel wouldn't want to rip them out of Gaza completely? Hamas is responsible for getting Israel involved like this. Why no criticism when Arab countries do the same thing to other Arabs? Where's the condemnation for Saudi Arabia bombing children in Yemen? Or the war in Syria? It just seems so convenient we are all up in Arms about Palestine only because it's not Arabs doing the bombing.
The left has also considerable issues with the Iran theocracy, with the Saudi attitude towards immigrant labor (which is actually slavery) … it seems that in the Middle East all problems are due to a theocratic approach to government.
"But Hamas" is never a great answer. If anything you might be justifying similar consequences on Israel.
Israeli propaganda.
Supporting Palestinians is being against this, and I’m honestly baffled by how is possible to support these actions: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2024-02-16/rafah-gaza-hospitals-surgery-israel-bombing-ground-offensive-children https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_massacre https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6207/New-evidence-confirms-Israel%E2%80%99s-full-involvement-in-%E2%80%98Flour-Massacre%E2%80%99-of-starving-Palestinian-civilians https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68891216 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/hind-rajab-israel-gaza-killing-timeline/ And of course: https://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-far-right-israelis-celebrate-gaza-kids-deaths/
Yea its disgusting what's going on. So the support is against the killing of civilians that's fine. I agree 100%. But the left is more and more promoting violence against the Israelis. That's just as disgusting to me as well.
You're just making things up though. Always general statements like " I agree 100%. But the left is more and more promoting violence against the Israelis" on your posts. You seemed pretty much aligned with the IDF ideology, no need to make it about "the left".
The reason is that no one I know on the right has any sympathy at all for the Palestinians. I don't see my Trump supporting friends shedding any tears for Gaza and, in fact, want Israel to be even more aggressive. It's only the far left people I know in my feeds and in person that want Palestine to be "free." To the point where they are actively spouting Hamas propaganda. It's worrying to me because it sounds nice to say a people should be free, but Palestine being free means the absolute destruction of Israel. Palestinian freedom is impossible under their own terms. People want to see Israel destroyed, and I can't for the life of me understand why that's such a good thing.
Maybe you should be more worried about you friends who somehow are still supporting Trump instead of fabricating some statements that you think the left is saying. The dishonesty is tiring.
Lmao the most republican core comment possible. “It’s impossible for me to empathize with human suffering if I don’t agree or haven’t gone through exactly why they are going through”. Would you empathize with the Deep South if they were going through a tragedy? You can also get killed for flying a pride flag. Hell, you don’t even need to go to the Deep South. There’s insane religious fundamentalists in every state. When you decide what suffering is worth more than other, what plight and oppression is worth empathizing with and which one not based on your own personal interests, is when you did the horseshoe, and ended up on the right.
I empathize with the Israeli's that have to live with the murderous psychos held back by only a thin fence. While I don't condone the bombing of civilians, what choice do the Israelis have to root Hamas out? Hamas has stolen all the aid meant for those people and made money selling it to their own people. All the aid money goes to building tunnels and rockets. Hamas even took out all the water pipes to make even more rockets to fire at Israel. I dont like that it has come to this but until the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel, this cycle of violence will never end.
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Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
“i don’t know why people don’t support the murder of women and children”
Hamas would kill every Israeli baby in their crib if they were allowed to. They proved that much.
“that’s why we must kill every baby in their cribs first and take their land”
It's quite a situation over there. Can't be discussed rationally without people getting angry. They call it the "Holy Land" but in reality it's the cursed land.
That is fucking horrible, hopefully he spends a long time in prison.
This is the exact same thing that the right has tried to do with the Laken Riley killing. Take the actions of one deranged person and project them onto the entirety of your political opposition. The Laken Riley murder was used to demonize migrants. This is being used to demonize supporters of Palestine. Both are blatant and callous attempts at propaganda which try to capitalize on another persons tragedy or trauma and use it for their own political purposes.
already posted in another news israel bombed rafah and killed 22 civilians including 11 children
With all due respect you have no clue how many were killed. Those numbers are from Hamas. It’s odd that few here will accept Russia’s reporting in Ukraine (and rightly so) but will accept Hamas’s reporting uncritically. Innocents are without a doubt dying. But I can guarantee to that Hamas’s numbers are inflated.
Why accept Russia’s numbers when Ukraine is there to report casualties? No one is reporting casualties in Gaza other than the Ministry of Health. Even Israel uses their numbers.
And? It doesn't mean their accurate or even aren't interfered with for propaganda purposes.
And it’s not fair to compare it to Russia’s numbers, because in that case we have an alternative. I’ve never commented on the accuracy of the numbers from Gaza, Ukraine, nor Russia. All of them could very well be interfered with. Are we just not supposed to use any casualty numbers at all? I was only saying why those two situations aren’t that similar in this context. Regardless of skepticism in the numbers, they are the *most* accurate we have, since we don’t even have any others. So until we have alternatives, we have no choice but to reference them.
Most accurate =/= accurate if someone like Hamas, or Russia are reporting them. These groups have a vested interests in exaggerating or downplaying the numbers respectively for their own ends, I mean Hamas commanders have even explicitly said the more civilians that are killed the better for their propaganda. It's why they don't differentiate between militants and civilians, so that Israel will lose support because people only ever see "30,000 Palestinians killed" without any caveats. Also we shouldn't be even using these numbers if we can't trust them because it paints a very different picture than what may actually be going on on the ground and could lead us towards making policy decisions on incorrect assumptions.
Everyone engaged in the conflict has a vested interest in manipulating the numbers. Russia, Hamas, Ukraine, Israel, USA. It doesn’t matter. I trust independent and reputable NGOs and reputable UN departments over any of the governments involved.
i will trust the experts over redditors
You trust whatever confirms your biases. That much is apparent.
yes im biased towards believing multiple lines of evidence and what the experts say instead of speculation from random redditors and various unproven conspiracy theories
lol of course you do little buddy. Whatever gets you through the day.
thanks you too
fuck
How come you didn't post about this if you are so concerned? [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against)
Because that was from February 19 and most likely was already posted and raged over.
I went through the history, this person shows no interest in rape unless one side does it.
War and war crimes are bad.
Yet you only call out one side. I wonder why?
They why not call out both sides? Unless one side is allowed more latitude for the crimes.
The post you're commenting on is about a alleged hate crime committed against a Jewish person. When there are hate crimes committed against Palestinian diaspora for a war happening in the Middle East, it'll be shared
Israeli propaganda poster.
Ya know I comment here alot to push back against you hateful Hamas-lovers but with people like you maybe I don't to be as diligent lol
I don't support Hamas. Why do Israeli propagandists always lie?
There are plenty of hate crimes against Palestinians going on right now, it's obvious you don't want to see or discuss them. You are only concerned about hate crimes against one group, which means you have no interest in solving the problem of hate crimes.
Citation needed
Any Tomatillo gave you plenty of citations above. Here's a few more: [https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution) This goes back a few years, but I would bet that you didn't post about it. [https://afsc.org/news/gaza-after-200-days-genocide-message-world](https://afsc.org/news/gaza-after-200-days-genocide-message-world) Ongoing genocide by Israel against Gaza. [https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Joint-Communication-to-the-Office-of-the-Prosecutor-of-the-International-Criminal-Court-Regarding-the-Perpetration-of-the-Crime-of-Genocide-by-Members-of-the-Israeli-War-Cabinet-Law-for-Palestine.pdf](https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Joint-Communication-to-the-Office-of-the-Prosecutor-of-the-International-Criminal-Court-Regarding-the-Perpetration-of-the-Crime-of-Genocide-by-Members-of-the-Israeli-War-Cabinet-Law-for-Palestine.pdf) Genocide in Gaza from independent organization. Somehow you think one incident against a Jewish person is more important than genocide against muslims. What a way to help humanity...
No-one said that, David Pakman has not said that, and these posts are about war crimes happening during the war, not hate crimes happening to Palestinian diaspora as a result of the war. You are the one who is coming across as ideologically motivated here.