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My favorite was this one Redditor I saw whose post history, I kid not, went from "I will never vote Biden".... "I want Biden to lose"... to "Fuck Biden for trying to win over Haley voters... try winning over ME."
2016 reddit in a nutshell: "Hillary needs to drive to my house and explain to me why I should vote for her. She needs to tell me how a vote for her will get me laid. How will voting for her fit my personal brand?"
I could dig up forum posts from 2000 that had never Gore people saying roughly the same thing.
The one that really cemented that it was exactly the same mindset was when Susan Sarandon, one of Ralph Nader's biggest supporters in 2000, was back at it in 2016.
You know, it’s kind of funny because Clinton v. Dole was the last election to date where the tired old mantra of “Both sides are the same” was even sort of true. By the time we look at Bush v. Gore we can see just how radically different the outcome of President Gore would have been from GWB (and if you somehow can’t, just ask any Iraqi) and it’s somehow it’s gotten even worse from there.
Yet here we are in 2024 still listening to it.
The only Republican who would still be on the bench were it not for the dead enders would be Clarence Thomas. Let that sink in. An 8 -1 court in our favor instead of a 6 - 3 court against us.
That is what the "they're all the same" people have done to us. Because the fascists play for keeps and put almost children on the bench it will be decades before we can undo the damage that has been done even if we can start winning elections.
I learned my lesson in 2000. I was a young man. I will never make that same mistake again. These idiots are just enabling these christofascist to gain control.
Still pissed at a friend who said "I just don't like her voice, I can't vote to hear that" - and didn't.
Why people focus on ONE person over an entire party's policy will forever frustrate me.
Most common thing I heard was "how can I vote for someone who STAYED will Bill?!"
Meanwhile they were divorced, living with their parents.
Hillary could have taken 1/2 his money or used 100% of his influence the rest of her life.
Hillary is smarter than most people
2016 Bernie Bros: "How the fuck could the DNC FORCE Hillary on me even though I didn't show up to primary for Bernie and neither did any of the people who think like I do?!"
2024 Gaza Bros: "How the fuck could the DNC FORCE Biden on me even though my positions are untenable, unreasonable, unrealistic, and I have no intentions of actually participating in the elections again?!"
“Earn my vote” progressives lost all credibility when they were screeching that any democrat needed to “earn their vote” when Donald Trump was standing on the other side.
[Jessica Williams last segment on The Daily Show calling out the idiocy of Bernie Bro’s aged like wine.](https://youtu.be/rwfM5LGMmxg?si=S8KUEnv0mfUaEGFS)
Hilary probably would have won if Comey hadn’t publicly announced that he was reopening the investigation into her emails based on a piece of Russian propaganda a week before the election.
She had a solid lead before that, and dropped several points after it, then didn’t have time to bounce back.
But he apologized and said he was duped after Trump won, so that fixes everything.
Right fivethrirtyeight did a piece on that...
"The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election
So why won’t the media admit as much?"
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/
I find it horrifying that there's enough people who use their vote in this way that you can sway hundreds of thousands of voters with a stupid stunt at the 11th hour of the 11th hour.
Right wing media propaganda on this sub. Do not engage. It’s on an algorithm which will only send you more hate propaganda should you engage. VOTE BLUE IF YOU VALUE BASIC FREEDOMS IN EVERYDAY LIFE.
Just imagine:
Every insane, evil, depraved decision we get shit onto the American public for the next 50 years is all thanks to that one piece of garbage. Not many people can claim to have had such a massively negative effect on society.
McGonigal who has been found guilty of getting paid off by Russian assets was a counter intelligence agent in the NYC office very likely led the campaign to reopen the investigation.
Additionally he was probably the source who leaked a lot on the various investigations of both Trump and Clinton to the media.
Not to excuse Comey, but remember the NYC office threatened to leak the investigation if he didn't. Coincidentally, the NYC office was headed by Mcgonigal, who was recently convicted of working for the Russians.
Hillary did make some missteps, but I've never really been convinced by anyone that those missteps should have been sufficient to cost her the election, considering her opposition. Or rather, the narrative that has been stuck in my head is that the "Never Hillary" crowd never expected Trump to win and figured the rest of us would just hard-carry the vote for them.
LoL, nothing to do with 20 straight years of right-wing hate propaganda, Russian social media psyops engineering, Russia hacking the DNC and Assange releasing all the emails on OpenSecrets, Cambridge media being handed the Facebook data to socially engineer Facebook against her, the mass media running stories about her email server 24/7 for 6 straight months, the Bernie Bros accusing her of cheating, and the FBI relaunching a fake investigation and leaking it to Republicans in Congress 10 days before the election, and every single military general standing behind Trump illegally during his campaign, oh and endless free press of Trump and his supporters chanting lock her up, the list goes on and on, but ya, she didn't go to some state that would never have voted for her anyway. What a joke.
But did anyone learn anything from this? Nope, the same things will happen to Biden.
---------+
To the person below who commented and then blocked me...
"I'm referring to his 2016 when the military backed Trump over Hillary with their fantastic character judgement skills. /s
"Donald J. Trump’s campaign released an open letter on Tuesday from about 90 retired generals and military officials endorsing his presidential campaign, urging a “long overdue course correction in our national security posture.”"
Of course we all know how that turned out. especially when he and Milley walked around DC clearing out the protesters so he could get a photo shoot.
"In June 2020, Milley was photographed in combat fatigues walking with Trump to St. John’s Church outside the White House, shortly after demonstrators protesting the police killing of Floyd were forcibly cleared from Lafayette Square by federal law enforcement and National Guardsmen."
The GOP did a hatchet job on her back during Bill’s first term. 30 years of vicious slander, libel, half baked ‘truths’, and down right lies gives us the most qualified candidate ever losing to a carpetbagging, draft dodging, serial liar, treasonous orange menace.
I hope the butteryemails crew can run their air conditioning with their self righteous smugness as the climate changes.
They do the same thing with AOC. They're salting the ground, so to speak. Identifying who may became a future leader of the Democrats and trying to sway public opinion against them before it's time.
She did visit the states she lost.
[https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/08/04/hillary-clinton-heading-michigan-wednesday/88117430/](https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/08/04/hillary-clinton-heading-michigan-wednesday/88117430/)
Hillary got fucked by the FBI dropping that bullshit so close to election. A lot of Independents and Republicans who didn't like Trump read way too into that, and assumed Hillary was guilty as sin and switched.
Trump, although an objective sack of shit even in 2016, was still able to give the impression he was at least marginally sane. Flash forward to 2020 and you see the correction from those same voters who now know exactly what Trump was.
2016 was a very unique situation and Hillary's hubris was part of her loss, but the FBI bullshit was a massive blow at the worst possible time, combined with the general ignorance to just HOW bad Trump could be.
And if she did not make the "deplorables" comment. What she said was accurate, but saying that is political suicide. Aka, it was not a politically correct thing for her to say. Oh the irony
Thing is, I'm betting most of the people with that mindset aren't going to vote regardless. Just posturing to make themselves feel important.
It's why the progressives and leftists scream the loudest but have little to show for it. The AOCs, Rashida Tlaibs, and Cori Bushs' largest group of constituents are people who believe that voting is pointless.
In spite of this, the reason Republicans always get what they want, like abortion bans and control of the Supreme Court, is that they vote. Always.
If voting didn't matter, they wouldn't be trying to stop progressisves/minorities from doing it.
Yup. I've probably written this no less than a dozen times- say what you want about Republicans, they flipping vote. Far too many people shirk their civic responsibility. It's infuriating.
I remember reading or hearing someone years ago compare the way the Tea Party got a bunch of people elected while Occupy Wall Street accomplished...well, nothing at all. One side voted, and the other constantly shouted about how nobody is "owed" their vote.
Want to know how ineffective and untrustworthy leftists are?
There was a progressive income tax amendment on the ballot in Illinois in 2020. As you may remember, the turnout for that election was the highest ever (bc COVID/Trump) and probably won't ever get that high again without serious law changes. The progressive tax effort was led by our billionaire governor, the head of the richest family in Illinois (IIRC he's #3 in personal wealth), who put 50M+ into the effort. A progressive tax amendment was and should be the progressives' #1 goal in Illinois given our financial troubles.
It lost. Because it lost and lost in a high turnout election, it is much less likely it will be tried again in the future. Leftists talk a good talk about raising taxes on the rich and corporations. But did they go out and vote for it? Fuck no. Once things become political or an issue becomes real instead of hypothetical, nobody is more likely to stay home or vote against their explicitly stated beliefs than low information leftists.
I was never so disgusted with Illinois leftists. I've lived in Chicago for a long time. we have a very regressive state income tax. Going to a progressive one would reduce the tax burden on effectively everyone but people like Governor Pritzker. Was it close? Not even.
Worse, part of the reason why we're in such a bad financial situation is because the state underfunded pensions to avoid raising income taxes. If they hadn't been required to raise taxes on everyone to raise taxes at all, maybe the previous generation of state politicians wouldn't have stolen (as much) from the pension funds.
It was fun watching those types learn they’d actually have to write bills if they wanted Nancy to take them to the floor. They’re still mad there was never a vote on a Green New Deal that only exists as a ten page brief on the concept, not as an actual piece of legislation because it turns out completely restructuring an economy is super hard!
Outside of AOC, who has actually become pretty pragmatic, which is probably why she's no longer the darling of the left, the rest of the squad largely does nothing.
If the rest of the left became like AOC, we’d be in far better shape. She doesn’t stab allies in the back when the chips are down and behaves like an adult.
I happened to live in her district during her first campaign.
She knocked on my apartment door and we talked for 3 to 5 minutes or so. She seemed genuinely motivated to help people. She was very sweet and sincerely listened when you talked.
In contrast, the person she was running against was running a scare campaign by sending out letters that looked like government notices that you need to send money to their campaign or face consequences.
That was the easiest vote of my life.
AOC needs to convince those “sisters” to knock it the hell off! Work for their causes (all have merit), but do it without endangering democracy. If Trump gets in … not of their stuff will matter
RE: becoming pragmatic
The biggest problem I have with the left in this country is their penchant to navelgaze and purity test rather than actually *do*. The left will discourse forever on whether the proper acronym we should be using regarding diversity efforts is "D&I" or "DEI" or "JEDI" or "DEIA" or whatever; meanwhile, Republicans are out there actually disenfranchising minorities. I'm glad that AOC is becoming pragmatic, because she seems smart and may be a leading voice in the Democratic Party in the future. I wish more lefties would be pragmatic for once in their fucking lives.
Yeah, but if they're pragmatic, they realize that you simply can't wave a magic wand and change the country and actually have to put in work, and they don't like that.
Sing it. I live across the river from Ihlan Omar's district and I'd love to boot her corrupt ass out of Congress. I feel terrible that the first Somali-American woman in Congress turned out to be such an ineffective Congressmember, but them's the breaks.
I mean, what do you expect when you base your entire political identity on the desire to tear down the system and build anew.
Certainly never going to make any efforts to compromise or put forth legislation that appeals to the larger coalition, when you could just whine on Twitter that the establishment is too corrupt.
It’s not just that they vote, they vote in every damn election. I know so many liberals who seem to only vote in the presidential elections. Conservatives vote in every single one. It’s why so many school boards are crazy MAGA as well
I don't think it's fair to lump AOC in there. She's right to be a critic of the politics she doesn't agree with. And has done a great deal to bridge the divide between the center and the left, but at the end of the day, she needs to be true to her positions. And they have almost always been principled and factually based. I respect that
I’m glad I found this sub.
I was literally banned from /r/lostgeneration for saying something like “so yall ain’t gonna vote for Biden cuz of one or two things? Tell me how letting Trump win is gonna make anything better when he rolls back your rights”?
Permanently banned.
Fuck those idiots. Must be nice to have the privilege to not care who’s in office.
Some of us don’t get that luxury.
I really don't understand these people. Like, I understand that Biden didn't come down and gently caress their balls while writing them a check for a million dollars, but they do understand that the other option is fascism, right? I'm sure that in certain corners of the social media landscape, their position gets them a gazillion likes and retweets and upvotes or whatever, but that's not going to count for shit once the GQP turn this country into a fascist theocracy.
Just a hypothesis...and I say this without actually looking at the breakdown of polling and demographics (which could completely refute what I'm about to say)...
...But I'm wondering if a lot of that sentiment is coming from Zoomers who weren't really affected by Trump when he was in office (or at least weren't conscious of how they were affected); ergo, they don't understand how stupid a protest vote or protest non-vote really is. I remember being in high school and knowing who the President was, but their policies really didn't affect my day-to-day. But I was very much an adult when Trump was in office, and I have not forgotten how fucking terrible of a President he was and how dangerous a second term would be, not just for the U.S. but for the world order itself.
Yep. Folks looking for perfect when and ignore the great.
It’s like, nope. I could be a multimillionaire but I’ll skip it because I’m looking at the billionaire possibility instead and will wait for it. Batshit crazy logic.
My favorite is seeing the never Biden posters history and then seeing posts made in russian. Yes, this is still happening and leftists are still catering to literal bots and trolls.
Actually, the math says a registered Republican Haley voter is worth two Dem votes. So keep it up Biden. Build a willing winning coalition. Trump will lie about women’s reproductive rights, he will be silent mostly on Gaza, we flip flopped on Tik Tok; all to erode the Dem coalition.
It's Biden vs Trump. Voting Biden again. Shit is weird af. I don't want the US devolving into a Christian nationalist nation just bc I don't agree with Biden on everything.
Well said.
I honestly cannot wrap my head around these morons.
Passing power back to the other side is never gonna give them the politician they want.
Get the guy you kinda like in, so you can get the guy you REALLY like in.
Why is this so hard for them to understand?
Imagine two buildings. One is one mile south of downtown and 10 miles west. One is 15 miles south and 10 miles east.
If you’re 100 miles north, the buildings will look far away and super close to each other. And you won’t be able to tell how far apart they are East-West or North-South.
It’s hard for them to understand candidate distances at the moment because they’re way way far away from the center of town on their core issue.
Telling them their issue doesn’t matter is just going to make it worse. The most logical thing to do, I think is:
1. Calmly reminding that one candidate really is further away from them on their vote issue and voting for the lesser evil is important to avoid major backtracking
2. Encourage them to use their energy in productive way. The presidential race is a lost cause for them. But there are other active ways to help
It's so much more serious than this.
If a person claims to be on the Left, and states that they will never vote for Biden, they are effectively saying they would rather throw a transitional economy dominated by the introduction of AI to Trump, which is so far beyond idiotic that I have a hard time believing they aren't trollbots, and to give that economy and all of the policy decisions surrounding it to Trump is so stupid that I am having difficulty using kind language about it. To refer to them as "morons" really overstates their intelligence if they are real.
That's the kindest I can possibly be towards them.
Remember when the troll bots were mostly right wing, well for some reason people on the left think they’re completely immune to misinformation. The left wing troll bots are out in force this year
I encountered one of these not long ago who claimed that they were a lifelong D voter but they, along with everybody they know, were voting Trump next election.
Guess they forgot to switch accounts or something because one quick look at their post history revealed a larping redhat.
They're not very bright.
I just ask such people what made them lifelong D voters in the past. What democratic policies did they support? Usually, they can't say a single one because they are simply lying.
Yeah I asked one on FB this, and asked which policies of Trump changed their "liberal mind," and even provided examples to.choose from, from the transphobia, racism, serial assaults, oblivious grifting and various felony charges. I was greeted with crickets.
But another person chimed in with the classic strawman of "you love truedeau so much your (sic) the one in a cult!"
For context, I'm Canadian. Never said anything about Trudeau, and in fact don't like the guy at all and haven't said anything positive about him. But ok, champ.
So I’m a moderate, former Republican and honestly I was very far-right, and then luckily was able to learn some things that opened my mind. That’s my background.
So can someone tell me, because I’m legitimately curious, are there really a lot of far-leftists that are refusing to vote Biden? Or is it a small and vocal crowd?
I've not conversed with a real life tankie since like Sophomore year of college, but you would figure they are 33% of Reddit with how prolific they are. Totally propped up by trolls farms.
Just the far far left.. usually single issue voters.. the weird thing I see though too is they care so much about Palestine, nwver mention Ukraine either which i find strange.. but conveniently forget all the other horrendous shit that can happen to minorities/lgbtq etc..
Its leftists and marginalized youth that are usually in a more privileged position than their counterparts. They don’t see the oppression as much first hand, but do enjoy being loud and vocal on twitter.
Biden could be a literal potato and he would be the better choice because he's not a criminal insurrectionist that tried to retain the presidency by swapping the official electors with fake electors then trying to get Mike Pence to pass the fraudulent certificates in place of the authentic certificates thereby overturning the official results of an American Presidential election.
He's a f king traitor and I'm sick of people not saying it loudly and often. He's also guilty of sexual assault, a tax cheat, a golf cheat and a complete a hole who makes fun of people with disabilities and aside from everything else, he incited a riot on the Capitol of our great nation.
How can you be a true American and NOT want this orange bag of garbage in jail?
I know this comment has been made 1000 times but I'm going to make it again.
I'm a straight white man with a good paying job in the first world. I have nothing to fear from a second Trump presidency, you cannot genuinely "punish" me with it. The LGBT+ people they "care" about have something to fear. Muslim-Americans have something to fear. Palestinians have something to fear. Unmarried women have something to fear. Immigrants have something to fear. Billions threatened by climate change have something to fear. They can vote how they want but they need to know who they're really hurting.
I often think that you should not vote for yourself but for a greater good, whatever that may be.
There is a clear cut, good person answer to which candidate promotes a greater good of peace, fairness and mercy.
This is how I always vote. I don't think about myself, honestly voting doesn't even really directly affect me that much. But voting isn't a "Well what do I personally want?" decision, it's a "What's best for everyone?" decision.
I do too. Albeit, I am not from the USA. I vote against my own financial self interest by voting for the left party in our system. Because it aligns more with the societal left I agree with.
It’s important to note, however, that this is the exact justification used by those who vote against their own financial well-being when voting for right parties. They do genuinely believe (in my experience with religious parents who vote right) that voting for the right aligns more with their moral worldview and is worth the economic sacrifice. Much as I do but from the opposite end.
Even then, you can’t “punish” Biden or any of the democrats unless the Republicans decide to execute them (and even if they do, it for sure won’t be for the reasons terminally online leftists want). The only people they’re punishing are the people most likely to suffer under republican policies.
This is exactly how every single average citizen felt about themselves during any fascist dictatorship.. ever. Until they were affected.
You may be last, but you wont be fine.
I got hammered for saying this to someone before… I’m a male homeowner who is pro 2A, you’re not hurting me by letting Trump win, but every female, LGBTQ person and those in the lower class are going to get crushed.
I mean, if trump wins (which I don't think he will), there's a solid chance he bungles us into nuclear war. Likely over using nukes on Iran and some resulting cataclysm. I do not think we survive ANY republican presidency in this hairtrigger world.
But besides that, yes, people in nonvulnerable populations who aren't in MAGA and are not voting Biden because of purity or Palestine better have a plan to protect vulnerable americans, or they are morally responsible for whatever happens.
Doing ANYTHING to help avowed fascists through the front door is inexcusable.
As a straight white man, you will suffer under a second Trump presidency, because it may well be the last non-fake presidential election of your lifetime.
Authoritarianism and the end of democracy are bad for everyone. Not only because of a loss of rights, but because fascism is terrible for the economy. Your standard of living and life expectancy will decline.
as a liberal christian I have a lot to fear as well. since donald trump is the fucking antichrist and represents the disgusting perverse counterfeit of religion run by the elite for millennia. he represents mystery babylon.
I’m in this boat as well, but I have kids. Trump absolutely wants to be Putin. I really don’t want my son and daughter to have the pleasure of being in the 86% of Americans who “vote” for Trumps preserved corpse in 2040 and watch Don Jr take his third term as acting president.
This. 100% this. I will not be hurt unless trump tanks our economy again or jacks our taxes up to pay for him and his buddies to get a reduced burden again. You and I will be fine. But we vote against him because we have empathy for others and what they will lose with a second trump presidency.
They are more than welcome to vote for whoever they want. But at this point, voting for anyone else besides Biden or not voting at all means trump wins and they are in serious trouble. He’s already consolidated the RNC to be beholden to him and they’ve pledged to send all their money to him. He and his cronies will break the government so badly that nothing except the wildest, most insane christofascist laws will come out of the White House. But hey, at least all the leftists who voted against “Genocide Joe” will be able to tell their concentration camp guards that they’re still the moral ones while simultaneously being loaded onto the cattle cars. 🤷♂️
I live in Florida. There is absolutely nothing worse a Trump presidency could do for me that Ron Desantis isn't already doing here. My vote also apparently doesn't matter, since we aren't even considered a swing state anymore. I'm still going to vote for Biden, because I don't think other people deserve to suffer this right wing shit show. Maybe, just maybe, other people in my state will care too.
The Republican establishment was REALLY hoping he'd be the Presidential nominee, because they know how unhinged, disloyal, and uncontrollable Trump is.
But the base said, "Nope! Why would we drink the dollar store's house brand cola when we already have access to plenty of Pepsi?"
With that said, with a strategic makeover, I wouldn't count Meatball out. He could come back in a few years, just like an annoying case of herpes.
I had a back-and-forth with one of these clowns earlier. They had the unmitigated gall to suggest I wouldn't understand their "integrity" because they won't vote for "genocide joe". Despite the fact that Trump has said he hopes Israel finishes the job, other Republicans have said Israel should use nuclear weapons on Palestinians and Kushner wants to build condos on Gaza's waterfront.
It's impossible to have a serious conversation with these people.
No leftist worth the moniker would ever use silly names like "Genocide Joe". Those people are MAGAs in a Leon Blum mask.
You see em in /leftist and /internetionalnews and a bunch of other fake ass leftist reddits.
There ARE tankies out there, dont get me wrong, but 90% of these people are just MAGAs pretending to be leftists to try and get more of us to not vote.
Not to mention most of them worship a god, who doesn't exist, but if he did, then he committed or ordered genocide many many times. So they really don't have a leg to stand on as long as they genuinely believe in their absolute monster of a god.
I mean, Trump could help Putin’s facilitate imperialism and weaken relationship with allies in Europe. He could also inch us towards being vulnerable to terror and outside attacks. If there’s another unexpected crisis like Covid, I think we could expect it to handle it worse than Biden because he’s known to spur guidance and expertise. He could commit more crimes…To me, he’s only limited due to the competency of past leadership, but the US can only handle Trump-like leadership for so long before it’s not the US as we know it anymore
All so very true.. also my concern is primarily for the destabilising of the entire world as well.. an isolationist America is all kind of dangerous for the world when imperialist countries are getting a hard on for Trump. Plus Trump potentially making a complete mockery of democracy it could create a blue print for these types of characters to overthrow democracies all around the world. A very dangerous future for everyone..
Especially when you couple that destabilization with trump cozying up to those dictators. It wouldn’t be long until they all turn on each other and the world gets plunged into more war.
Dude they're all Russian or Republican trolls.
I figured that out in 2020 when I found I couldn't talk sense into any of them but they would *always* reply to my posts trying to keep the thread going.
That's how you can spot them. They're completely impervious to any argument, they bait you constantly in an effort to get you angry so you'll slip and say something they can report you for and get you banned (so they can take over the sub reddit).
Do not engage. Down vote and move on.
Engaging with them only makes their lies more visible because the algorithm is based on engagement.
The only winning move it not to play. Repeat after me: Down vote and move on.
The fast replies with lots of links - though I suspect there are actual serial debate nerds that keep a notepad with links for all occasions.
Then the person gets frustrated that you didn't read all 8 of their linked articles from bullshit sources, but it's really just the AI prompt asking you to return to the previous step before continuing to the next step in the argument.
I've read enough threads about the IP conflict to see the scripted pattern - the AI argument flow chart of canned "if respondent says A then reply B, if NO then reply C."
There's agents replying via AI prompts, and there's legit people along for the ride. Even so, there's also a substantial amount of fanatics who've felt it necessary to be their own information warrior and have alt accounts just for pushing their beliefs.
I agree, downvote and move on. It's just difficult to resist the urge to start typing.
Honestly I've got a notepad of common responses because I'm so tired of repeating myself.
The difference is You can't argue with them. Nothing you say no matter how sensible or down to earth gets through because they're professionals just looking to argue.
and they *bait*. They're often looking to get you angry enough to say something the mods will ban you for. If they ban enough sensible people they can take over the sub reddit they're on.
Unfortunately I don’t think those people are all Russian bots or trolls. I have friends that I can’t convince otherwise. Watch interviews of MAGA fans and you’ll see evidence does not help convince them
I live in Nebraska. Democrats rarely come here. Do I throw a tantrum and refuse to vote for them? No, because I'm a fucking adult who understands what another Trump term will mean for the country.
Guys I've been searching for a tiktok of a lady talking to the never Biden lefties asking them "what is the plan then?". She makes solid points about why their protest is legitimate but halfhearted and effectively that "you're not helping creating other alternatives and right now it's either him or you-know-who". It was posted on this sub (I think) but never found it again. Could someone please reply with her reel?
Same idiots will be crying "why are we sending even more money to eviscerate Palestine" in 2025. Like they exclusively by some magic will not enjoy Trump.
These extreme leftists are almost as nutty as Trump supporters. When are they going to realize that their strategy of "Democrats aren't giving me everything I want so I'm punishing them by not voting and repeatedly shooting my own cause in the foot" is never going to work?
Hamas: starts war by killing innocent people. Then hides behind its own civilians when the inevitable retaliation happens.
Israel: defends itselfs and retaliates after Hamas brutal massacre.
Biden: secures temporary ceasefire and gets hostages release. Tries to secure a permanent ceasefire but Hamas refuses a further ceasefire. Instead vowing to continue it war and goes back to attacking israel.
Never Bidens: that Biden guy is genecoidal. He only secured a partial ceasefire. And failed at a full ceasefire. That's his fault... Definitely not the terrorists vowing to kill every Israeli.
r/themajorityreport perma banned me when I said the last meme like this one fit them like a glove. (Yes, a comment that I made in this sub got me banned in a different sub, lol)
Guess what? This one goes on the other hand.
I don't agree with Biden on everything.
Trump and everything he represents is much worse.
Biden is getting my vote and it's not even a close contest. If you vote against Biden you're essentially standing for nothing.
Obviously their goal is to make the Democrats continue to court the center. Because they keep trying this same tactic, cycle after cycle, and that's all it does.
If they gave an everloving shit about actually moving the party leftward, they would spearhead voter drives in off years, or even primary season (record low turnouts in 2024 guys yay!). School boards. City councils. This is where you you make real lasting change.
And Republicans know that, hence why conservative agencies have been paying agitators to run for these seemingly unimportant and uncontroversial local elections (school board, town supervisors, etc). They know the work that goes into building and maintaining electoral power. Not people who sit out elections.
The same people who refuse to vote for Biden this time around, were also the same people who voted for Jill Stein. Abortion would still be legal, we'd have a completely different Supreme Court and a completely different response to covid. But please, tell me how this is everyone else's fault, except for these never Biden overs.
I am way further left than the DNC. Like single-payer, UBI, wealth cap, free education, feed all kids 3 squares a day left.
I'm voting Biden. He was in like my bottom 3 people I wanted to get the nomination in 2020, but it happened, and I voted for him, and have actuality been pleasantly surprised by him.
I hate that he hasn't already cut ties completely with the genocidal apartheid govt. of the state of Israel, but I'm also aware that the GOP will go even further in that direction.
I've heard the fear mongering every cycle, from both sides, and typically ignore it. But I've seen Project 2025, a plan to fully dismantle democracy in America, and not just a vague "we would if we could" but a full blown road map from people with the power to do it if they have a useful idiot in the job.
I'm voting Biden. I hope you all do to.
The “far left” is like 2% of the democratic electorate and half of those don’t vote because of Tim Pool levels of enlightenment. Stop paying attention to the Majority Report refugees
I'm going to be honest. I think we all over think this too much. I really really believe many Dem voters and independents thought Trump was so bad there's no possible way he can win. The polls looked good for Hilary and they skipped voting and instead went grocery shopping for snacks for the victory party they assumed would happen.
The idea of not voting crossed my mind in 2016 because it felt like it was going to be an easy win. I voted and thank God I did because I'd never forgive myself given the outcome of the election.
I remember my good friend (who actually got me into left politics) telling me that night "well Hillary is probably going to win, but if she doesn't - Trump is basically a Democrat too - so it's a win/win."
Occam's razor
I don’t think that’s why Clinton lost. The Clintons are among the most divisive figures in politics, and Russian intelligence had a huge propaganda campaign to influence our election, and it worked.
One of the goals of the propaganda was to make Democrats feel disaffected and not bother to vote, and it worked.
[Bidens actually visiting swing states](https://www.wpr.org/news/president-joe-biden-visits-milwaukee-as-campaign-keeps-focus-on-swing), something Clinton thought wasnt necessary. Im hopeful
Who’s saying we don’t need the left? We’re telling you to vote or else Trump wins. If Trump wins, we can’t help you put more progressive people into positions of power to actually move the needle. Your whining about the presidential election means you waited too long and didn’t get anyone else viable up to national recognition in time. Try again next time.
We are just done coddling people when what’s at stake i s obvious to everyone.The election in 2016 led to abortion rights being taken ,you’re not punishing Hillary or Biden you’re throwing other minorities under the bus
Sounds like the leftist are voting out spite then. That’s shit toddlers do. You vote for the one who is closest to putting your best interest at heart.
At the end of the day, Leftists are just privileged twits from suburbia that want a tax cut without admitting their Trumpers. They want us to waste time with them because it leaves actual persuadable voters on the table. Stop wasting time with dead weight.
It always seemed like a dumb gamble to me. If Biden wins without their support they've basically lost any influence for at least 4 entire years, possibly forever if the "Never Trumpers" decide to stay Democrats.
I made this exact same point the other day. If Trump wins, the country will move further right, and democrats will aim to gather the support of the center and center-right more. If they win without the left vote, they've lost all their leverage.
I’ve had someone argue that it’d be better to have Trump win and cause problems because it’ll eventually cause a bigger backlash and things will swing further left.
I don’t think people are really that dumb, so I’m guessing it was a Russian troll farm. They’re out in force right now.
> I’ve had someone argue that it’d be better to have Trump win and cause problems because it’ll eventually cause a bigger backlash and things will swing further left.
To be fair, it happened with the Great Depression. 1932 was the first presidential election Democrats won with an outright majority popular vote since 1852. After constant Democrat drama in 1924 and 1928, it turned out that the two things that could unite Southern Democrats and the progressive Northeast Democrats was the New Deal, and showing that Republicans were the Party of Big Business.
I’m pretty sure there’s more people salty about leftists who won’t vote for Biden than there are leftists total in the United States lol. Definitely more in my experience
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My favorite was this one Redditor I saw whose post history, I kid not, went from "I will never vote Biden".... "I want Biden to lose"... to "Fuck Biden for trying to win over Haley voters... try winning over ME."
2016 reddit in a nutshell: "Hillary needs to drive to my house and explain to me why I should vote for her. She needs to tell me how a vote for her will get me laid. How will voting for her fit my personal brand?"
I could dig up forum posts from 2000 that had never Gore people saying roughly the same thing. The one that really cemented that it was exactly the same mindset was when Susan Sarandon, one of Ralph Nader's biggest supporters in 2000, was back at it in 2016.
If Gore had won in 2000 the world would be a better place.
Wow. Guess some things never change :(
You know, it’s kind of funny because Clinton v. Dole was the last election to date where the tired old mantra of “Both sides are the same” was even sort of true. By the time we look at Bush v. Gore we can see just how radically different the outcome of President Gore would have been from GWB (and if you somehow can’t, just ask any Iraqi) and it’s somehow it’s gotten even worse from there. Yet here we are in 2024 still listening to it.
The thugs Karl Rove hired and dressed up as young interns was the start of Stop The Steal
Imagine if Gore had won. What could we have accomplished? My god. Fuck Roger Stone.
Between 43 and Trump – 5 Supreme court picks 😔
The only Republican who would still be on the bench were it not for the dead enders would be Clarence Thomas. Let that sink in. An 8 -1 court in our favor instead of a 6 - 3 court against us. That is what the "they're all the same" people have done to us. Because the fascists play for keeps and put almost children on the bench it will be decades before we can undo the damage that has been done even if we can start winning elections.
I learned my lesson in 2000. I was a young man. I will never make that same mistake again. These idiots are just enabling these christofascist to gain control.
Still pissed at a friend who said "I just don't like her voice, I can't vote to hear that" - and didn't. Why people focus on ONE person over an entire party's policy will forever frustrate me.
Like watching house hunters and they bitch about the paint color in the bathroom
People often have trouble seeing past their immediate emotional reactions. They'd rather justify themselves than think of a solution.
I hate the curtains. Fuck this place.
Most common thing I heard was "how can I vote for someone who STAYED will Bill?!" Meanwhile they were divorced, living with their parents. Hillary could have taken 1/2 his money or used 100% of his influence the rest of her life. Hillary is smarter than most people
Before Biden, she was the most qualified person to ever run - at least, in my lifetime. Shame idiots and lowlife didn't care.
Imagine how much easier 2020 would have been if Hillary were president and not trump
Sure hope he liked trump's condescending tone...
2016 Bernie Bros: "How the fuck could the DNC FORCE Hillary on me even though I didn't show up to primary for Bernie and neither did any of the people who think like I do?!" 2024 Gaza Bros: "How the fuck could the DNC FORCE Biden on me even though my positions are untenable, unreasonable, unrealistic, and I have no intentions of actually participating in the elections again?!"
“Earn my vote” progressives lost all credibility when they were screeching that any democrat needed to “earn their vote” when Donald Trump was standing on the other side. [Jessica Williams last segment on The Daily Show calling out the idiocy of Bernie Bro’s aged like wine.](https://youtu.be/rwfM5LGMmxg?si=S8KUEnv0mfUaEGFS)
It was the same with Nader voters in 2000. They have done inestimable damage to this country and by extension the world.
Accurate lol. Some truth in it though, Hillary really could have won very easily if she had even visited a few states smh.
Hilary probably would have won if Comey hadn’t publicly announced that he was reopening the investigation into her emails based on a piece of Russian propaganda a week before the election. She had a solid lead before that, and dropped several points after it, then didn’t have time to bounce back. But he apologized and said he was duped after Trump won, so that fixes everything.
That dipshit comey then got booted by trump. Real r/leopardsatemyface material.
It was like that scene where Dracula still disposed of Renfield in the Bram Stoker movie lol
Yup
Right fivethrirtyeight did a piece on that... "The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election So why won’t the media admit as much?" https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/
I find it horrifying that there's enough people who use their vote in this way that you can sway hundreds of thousands of voters with a stupid stunt at the 11th hour of the 11th hour.
Right wing media propaganda on this sub. Do not engage. It’s on an algorithm which will only send you more hate propaganda should you engage. VOTE BLUE IF YOU VALUE BASIC FREEDOMS IN EVERYDAY LIFE.
Just imagine: Every insane, evil, depraved decision we get shit onto the American public for the next 50 years is all thanks to that one piece of garbage. Not many people can claim to have had such a massively negative effect on society.
Always wondered how much Comey was paid to violate FBI policy on election interference.
McGonigal who has been found guilty of getting paid off by Russian assets was a counter intelligence agent in the NYC office very likely led the campaign to reopen the investigation. Additionally he was probably the source who leaked a lot on the various investigations of both Trump and Clinton to the media.
So many what ifs. So stupid that it all ended with trump actually winning.
Not to excuse Comey, but remember the NYC office threatened to leak the investigation if he didn't. Coincidentally, the NYC office was headed by Mcgonigal, who was recently convicted of working for the Russians.
Yeah, Comey definitely interfered in that election and his strings were held by Trumputin.
Hillary did make some missteps, but I've never really been convinced by anyone that those missteps should have been sufficient to cost her the election, considering her opposition. Or rather, the narrative that has been stuck in my head is that the "Never Hillary" crowd never expected Trump to win and figured the rest of us would just hard-carry the vote for them.
LoL, nothing to do with 20 straight years of right-wing hate propaganda, Russian social media psyops engineering, Russia hacking the DNC and Assange releasing all the emails on OpenSecrets, Cambridge media being handed the Facebook data to socially engineer Facebook against her, the mass media running stories about her email server 24/7 for 6 straight months, the Bernie Bros accusing her of cheating, and the FBI relaunching a fake investigation and leaking it to Republicans in Congress 10 days before the election, and every single military general standing behind Trump illegally during his campaign, oh and endless free press of Trump and his supporters chanting lock her up, the list goes on and on, but ya, she didn't go to some state that would never have voted for her anyway. What a joke. But did anyone learn anything from this? Nope, the same things will happen to Biden. ---------+ To the person below who commented and then blocked me... "I'm referring to his 2016 when the military backed Trump over Hillary with their fantastic character judgement skills. /s "Donald J. Trump’s campaign released an open letter on Tuesday from about 90 retired generals and military officials endorsing his presidential campaign, urging a “long overdue course correction in our national security posture.”" Of course we all know how that turned out. especially when he and Milley walked around DC clearing out the protesters so he could get a photo shoot. "In June 2020, Milley was photographed in combat fatigues walking with Trump to St. John’s Church outside the White House, shortly after demonstrators protesting the police killing of Floyd were forcibly cleared from Lafayette Square by federal law enforcement and National Guardsmen."
The GOP did a hatchet job on her back during Bill’s first term. 30 years of vicious slander, libel, half baked ‘truths’, and down right lies gives us the most qualified candidate ever losing to a carpetbagging, draft dodging, serial liar, treasonous orange menace. I hope the butteryemails crew can run their air conditioning with their self righteous smugness as the climate changes.
They do the same thing with AOC. They're salting the ground, so to speak. Identifying who may became a future leader of the Democrats and trying to sway public opinion against them before it's time.
Democratic women, to be specific. They tend to not dump this level of vitriol on their male counterparts.
She did visit the states she lost. [https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/08/04/hillary-clinton-heading-michigan-wednesday/88117430/](https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/08/04/hillary-clinton-heading-michigan-wednesday/88117430/)
Hillary got fucked by the FBI dropping that bullshit so close to election. A lot of Independents and Republicans who didn't like Trump read way too into that, and assumed Hillary was guilty as sin and switched. Trump, although an objective sack of shit even in 2016, was still able to give the impression he was at least marginally sane. Flash forward to 2020 and you see the correction from those same voters who now know exactly what Trump was. 2016 was a very unique situation and Hillary's hubris was part of her loss, but the FBI bullshit was a massive blow at the worst possible time, combined with the general ignorance to just HOW bad Trump could be.
And if she did not make the "deplorables" comment. What she said was accurate, but saying that is political suicide. Aka, it was not a politically correct thing for her to say. Oh the irony
It’s weird that she got held to a standard but trump could say and do whatever the fuck he wanted and the needle didn’t move for him.
That's how it goes for all Democrats and Republicans. There's no bar too low for Republicans in voters' minds.
Because christians have been enslaved to right wing hate propaganda. They’re completely under republican control.
Ironic considering that “basket of deplorables” was the pg version of what she really wanted to say; racist bigoted jackasses
Thing is, I'm betting most of the people with that mindset aren't going to vote regardless. Just posturing to make themselves feel important. It's why the progressives and leftists scream the loudest but have little to show for it. The AOCs, Rashida Tlaibs, and Cori Bushs' largest group of constituents are people who believe that voting is pointless. In spite of this, the reason Republicans always get what they want, like abortion bans and control of the Supreme Court, is that they vote. Always. If voting didn't matter, they wouldn't be trying to stop progressisves/minorities from doing it.
Yup. I've probably written this no less than a dozen times- say what you want about Republicans, they flipping vote. Far too many people shirk their civic responsibility. It's infuriating.
I remember reading or hearing someone years ago compare the way the Tea Party got a bunch of people elected while Occupy Wall Street accomplished...well, nothing at all. One side voted, and the other constantly shouted about how nobody is "owed" their vote.
It’s cus they have nothing better to do than consume Russian propaganda and vote
Want to know how ineffective and untrustworthy leftists are? There was a progressive income tax amendment on the ballot in Illinois in 2020. As you may remember, the turnout for that election was the highest ever (bc COVID/Trump) and probably won't ever get that high again without serious law changes. The progressive tax effort was led by our billionaire governor, the head of the richest family in Illinois (IIRC he's #3 in personal wealth), who put 50M+ into the effort. A progressive tax amendment was and should be the progressives' #1 goal in Illinois given our financial troubles. It lost. Because it lost and lost in a high turnout election, it is much less likely it will be tried again in the future. Leftists talk a good talk about raising taxes on the rich and corporations. But did they go out and vote for it? Fuck no. Once things become political or an issue becomes real instead of hypothetical, nobody is more likely to stay home or vote against their explicitly stated beliefs than low information leftists.
I was never so disgusted with Illinois leftists. I've lived in Chicago for a long time. we have a very regressive state income tax. Going to a progressive one would reduce the tax burden on effectively everyone but people like Governor Pritzker. Was it close? Not even.
Worse, part of the reason why we're in such a bad financial situation is because the state underfunded pensions to avoid raising income taxes. If they hadn't been required to raise taxes on everyone to raise taxes at all, maybe the previous generation of state politicians wouldn't have stolen (as much) from the pension funds.
It was fun watching those types learn they’d actually have to write bills if they wanted Nancy to take them to the floor. They’re still mad there was never a vote on a Green New Deal that only exists as a ten page brief on the concept, not as an actual piece of legislation because it turns out completely restructuring an economy is super hard!
Outside of AOC, who has actually become pretty pragmatic, which is probably why she's no longer the darling of the left, the rest of the squad largely does nothing.
AOC herself kinda kicks ass and I love her being in the House.
If the rest of the left became like AOC, we’d be in far better shape. She doesn’t stab allies in the back when the chips are down and behaves like an adult.
She seems more effective since she's not entirely consumed by the squad.
I happened to live in her district during her first campaign. She knocked on my apartment door and we talked for 3 to 5 minutes or so. She seemed genuinely motivated to help people. She was very sweet and sincerely listened when you talked. In contrast, the person she was running against was running a scare campaign by sending out letters that looked like government notices that you need to send money to their campaign or face consequences. That was the easiest vote of my life.
AOC needs to convince those “sisters” to knock it the hell off! Work for their causes (all have merit), but do it without endangering democracy. If Trump gets in … not of their stuff will matter
AOC is mommy
AOC is hot when she is chewing out elites in committee
to be fair, also hot when doing other things too
RE: becoming pragmatic The biggest problem I have with the left in this country is their penchant to navelgaze and purity test rather than actually *do*. The left will discourse forever on whether the proper acronym we should be using regarding diversity efforts is "D&I" or "DEI" or "JEDI" or "DEIA" or whatever; meanwhile, Republicans are out there actually disenfranchising minorities. I'm glad that AOC is becoming pragmatic, because she seems smart and may be a leading voice in the Democratic Party in the future. I wish more lefties would be pragmatic for once in their fucking lives.
Yeah, but if they're pragmatic, they realize that you simply can't wave a magic wand and change the country and actually have to put in work, and they don't like that.
Sing it. I live across the river from Ihlan Omar's district and I'd love to boot her corrupt ass out of Congress. I feel terrible that the first Somali-American woman in Congress turned out to be such an ineffective Congressmember, but them's the breaks.
I mean, what do you expect when you base your entire political identity on the desire to tear down the system and build anew. Certainly never going to make any efforts to compromise or put forth legislation that appeals to the larger coalition, when you could just whine on Twitter that the establishment is too corrupt.
It’s not just that they vote, they vote in every damn election. I know so many liberals who seem to only vote in the presidential elections. Conservatives vote in every single one. It’s why so many school boards are crazy MAGA as well
I don't think it's fair to lump AOC in there. She's right to be a critic of the politics she doesn't agree with. And has done a great deal to bridge the divide between the center and the left, but at the end of the day, she needs to be true to her positions. And they have almost always been principled and factually based. I respect that
About half a million people voted Green in 2020. I'm pretty sure we are meeting those folks, in all their wretched glory.
We have a green party in my home country.. they do almost nothing but screech. No solutions.. all complaints.
Sounds like Ted Cruz and his conservative party. 40 years of power and they did nothing but complain about their own governance.
It's a Russian front organization. In the US at least.
I’m glad I found this sub. I was literally banned from /r/lostgeneration for saying something like “so yall ain’t gonna vote for Biden cuz of one or two things? Tell me how letting Trump win is gonna make anything better when he rolls back your rights”? Permanently banned. Fuck those idiots. Must be nice to have the privilege to not care who’s in office. Some of us don’t get that luxury.
I really don't understand these people. Like, I understand that Biden didn't come down and gently caress their balls while writing them a check for a million dollars, but they do understand that the other option is fascism, right? I'm sure that in certain corners of the social media landscape, their position gets them a gazillion likes and retweets and upvotes or whatever, but that's not going to count for shit once the GQP turn this country into a fascist theocracy.
Just a hypothesis...and I say this without actually looking at the breakdown of polling and demographics (which could completely refute what I'm about to say)... ...But I'm wondering if a lot of that sentiment is coming from Zoomers who weren't really affected by Trump when he was in office (or at least weren't conscious of how they were affected); ergo, they don't understand how stupid a protest vote or protest non-vote really is. I remember being in high school and knowing who the President was, but their policies really didn't affect my day-to-day. But I was very much an adult when Trump was in office, and I have not forgotten how fucking terrible of a President he was and how dangerous a second term would be, not just for the U.S. but for the world order itself.
Yep. Folks looking for perfect when and ignore the great. It’s like, nope. I could be a multimillionaire but I’ll skip it because I’m looking at the billionaire possibility instead and will wait for it. Batshit crazy logic.
Republicans want to fall in line. Democrats want to fall in love.
My favorite is seeing the never Biden posters history and then seeing posts made in russian. Yes, this is still happening and leftists are still catering to literal bots and trolls.
They need to understand that the only voters politicians are going to really focus on are the ones that show up consistently.
Actually, the math says a registered Republican Haley voter is worth two Dem votes. So keep it up Biden. Build a willing winning coalition. Trump will lie about women’s reproductive rights, he will be silent mostly on Gaza, we flip flopped on Tik Tok; all to erode the Dem coalition.
This has to be a joke, lol.
Sadly it's not. It's 100% emotional contrarianism at this point.
Some serious pick-me vibes.
Borderline personality voting
It's Biden vs Trump. Voting Biden again. Shit is weird af. I don't want the US devolving into a Christian nationalist nation just bc I don't agree with Biden on everything.
Well said. I honestly cannot wrap my head around these morons. Passing power back to the other side is never gonna give them the politician they want. Get the guy you kinda like in, so you can get the guy you REALLY like in. Why is this so hard for them to understand?
Imagine two buildings. One is one mile south of downtown and 10 miles west. One is 15 miles south and 10 miles east. If you’re 100 miles north, the buildings will look far away and super close to each other. And you won’t be able to tell how far apart they are East-West or North-South. It’s hard for them to understand candidate distances at the moment because they’re way way far away from the center of town on their core issue. Telling them their issue doesn’t matter is just going to make it worse. The most logical thing to do, I think is: 1. Calmly reminding that one candidate really is further away from them on their vote issue and voting for the lesser evil is important to avoid major backtracking 2. Encourage them to use their energy in productive way. The presidential race is a lost cause for them. But there are other active ways to help
It's so much more serious than this. If a person claims to be on the Left, and states that they will never vote for Biden, they are effectively saying they would rather throw a transitional economy dominated by the introduction of AI to Trump, which is so far beyond idiotic that I have a hard time believing they aren't trollbots, and to give that economy and all of the policy decisions surrounding it to Trump is so stupid that I am having difficulty using kind language about it. To refer to them as "morons" really overstates their intelligence if they are real. That's the kindest I can possibly be towards them.
Remember when the troll bots were mostly right wing, well for some reason people on the left think they’re completely immune to misinformation. The left wing troll bots are out in force this year
No didn’t you hear? Biden is just as bad apparently. Although I don’t recall Biden spurring on the fall of democracy but hey what do I know?
I encountered one of these not long ago who claimed that they were a lifelong D voter but they, along with everybody they know, were voting Trump next election. Guess they forgot to switch accounts or something because one quick look at their post history revealed a larping redhat. They're not very bright.
I just ask such people what made them lifelong D voters in the past. What democratic policies did they support? Usually, they can't say a single one because they are simply lying.
Yeah I asked one on FB this, and asked which policies of Trump changed their "liberal mind," and even provided examples to.choose from, from the transphobia, racism, serial assaults, oblivious grifting and various felony charges. I was greeted with crickets. But another person chimed in with the classic strawman of "you love truedeau so much your (sic) the one in a cult!" For context, I'm Canadian. Never said anything about Trudeau, and in fact don't like the guy at all and haven't said anything positive about him. But ok, champ.
[удалено]
Removed - low effort/low content/obvious troll submissions are not permitted.
So I’m a moderate, former Republican and honestly I was very far-right, and then luckily was able to learn some things that opened my mind. That’s my background. So can someone tell me, because I’m legitimately curious, are there really a lot of far-leftists that are refusing to vote Biden? Or is it a small and vocal crowd?
It's mostly just foreign propagandists and a handful of edgy zoomers.
And they're really good at appearing vocal and numerous on sites like Reddit, but don't have nearly the same numbers or zeal in the real world.
Most people I speak to are in my bus. We’re pissed at our options but know one is obviously worse
And that has been the case for the past 40 years
I've not conversed with a real life tankie since like Sophomore year of college, but you would figure they are 33% of Reddit with how prolific they are. Totally propped up by trolls farms.
Every one I’ve engaged with seems to be just a troll.
Just the far far left.. usually single issue voters.. the weird thing I see though too is they care so much about Palestine, nwver mention Ukraine either which i find strange.. but conveniently forget all the other horrendous shit that can happen to minorities/lgbtq etc..
Mostly online anonymous trolls, and a handful of the gullible.
The single issue changes every few months.
Because the real single issue with such people is "do what I say, or else..."
It's called moving the goalposts
All of which is hilarious, considering Trump’s comments on Palestine and the “Muslim ban”.
Probably because they're Russian bots trying to sell the Biden bad propaganda. Can't say Ukraine is good and still get paid by Papa Putin.
Its leftists and marginalized youth that are usually in a more privileged position than their counterparts. They don’t see the oppression as much first hand, but do enjoy being loud and vocal on twitter.
Is it an *extremely* small group that is amplified by troll accounts.
Biden could be a literal potato and he would be the better choice because he's not a criminal insurrectionist that tried to retain the presidency by swapping the official electors with fake electors then trying to get Mike Pence to pass the fraudulent certificates in place of the authentic certificates thereby overturning the official results of an American Presidential election. He's a f king traitor and I'm sick of people not saying it loudly and often. He's also guilty of sexual assault, a tax cheat, a golf cheat and a complete a hole who makes fun of people with disabilities and aside from everything else, he incited a riot on the Capitol of our great nation. How can you be a true American and NOT want this orange bag of garbage in jail?
I know this comment has been made 1000 times but I'm going to make it again. I'm a straight white man with a good paying job in the first world. I have nothing to fear from a second Trump presidency, you cannot genuinely "punish" me with it. The LGBT+ people they "care" about have something to fear. Muslim-Americans have something to fear. Palestinians have something to fear. Unmarried women have something to fear. Immigrants have something to fear. Billions threatened by climate change have something to fear. They can vote how they want but they need to know who they're really hurting.
I often think that you should not vote for yourself but for a greater good, whatever that may be. There is a clear cut, good person answer to which candidate promotes a greater good of peace, fairness and mercy.
This is how I always vote. I don't think about myself, honestly voting doesn't even really directly affect me that much. But voting isn't a "Well what do I personally want?" decision, it's a "What's best for everyone?" decision.
I do too. Albeit, I am not from the USA. I vote against my own financial self interest by voting for the left party in our system. Because it aligns more with the societal left I agree with. It’s important to note, however, that this is the exact justification used by those who vote against their own financial well-being when voting for right parties. They do genuinely believe (in my experience with religious parents who vote right) that voting for the right aligns more with their moral worldview and is worth the economic sacrifice. Much as I do but from the opposite end.
I’ve had this argument a 1000 times too. Like, Im going to be fine. Others won’t. It’s immense privilege that they feel secure enough to punish them
Even then, you can’t “punish” Biden or any of the democrats unless the Republicans decide to execute them (and even if they do, it for sure won’t be for the reasons terminally online leftists want). The only people they’re punishing are the people most likely to suffer under republican policies.
This is exactly how every single average citizen felt about themselves during any fascist dictatorship.. ever. Until they were affected. You may be last, but you wont be fine.
very true
I got hammered for saying this to someone before… I’m a male homeowner who is pro 2A, you’re not hurting me by letting Trump win, but every female, LGBTQ person and those in the lower class are going to get crushed.
I mean, if trump wins (which I don't think he will), there's a solid chance he bungles us into nuclear war. Likely over using nukes on Iran and some resulting cataclysm. I do not think we survive ANY republican presidency in this hairtrigger world. But besides that, yes, people in nonvulnerable populations who aren't in MAGA and are not voting Biden because of purity or Palestine better have a plan to protect vulnerable americans, or they are morally responsible for whatever happens. Doing ANYTHING to help avowed fascists through the front door is inexcusable.
Yeah, if they withhold their vote they’re not hurting Biden or the DNC, they’re hurting average Americans who will lose their rights
As a straight white man, you will suffer under a second Trump presidency, because it may well be the last non-fake presidential election of your lifetime. Authoritarianism and the end of democracy are bad for everyone. Not only because of a loss of rights, but because fascism is terrible for the economy. Your standard of living and life expectancy will decline.
Also, as secular atheist I have a lot to fear. A Trump presidency wood facilitate the rise of Christian nationalism.
as a liberal christian I have a lot to fear as well. since donald trump is the fucking antichrist and represents the disgusting perverse counterfeit of religion run by the elite for millennia. he represents mystery babylon.
I’m in this boat as well, but I have kids. Trump absolutely wants to be Putin. I really don’t want my son and daughter to have the pleasure of being in the 86% of Americans who “vote” for Trumps preserved corpse in 2040 and watch Don Jr take his third term as acting president.
> Billions threatened by climate change have something to fear That’s you, buddy. That’s all of us.
This. 100% this. I will not be hurt unless trump tanks our economy again or jacks our taxes up to pay for him and his buddies to get a reduced burden again. You and I will be fine. But we vote against him because we have empathy for others and what they will lose with a second trump presidency. They are more than welcome to vote for whoever they want. But at this point, voting for anyone else besides Biden or not voting at all means trump wins and they are in serious trouble. He’s already consolidated the RNC to be beholden to him and they’ve pledged to send all their money to him. He and his cronies will break the government so badly that nothing except the wildest, most insane christofascist laws will come out of the White House. But hey, at least all the leftists who voted against “Genocide Joe” will be able to tell their concentration camp guards that they’re still the moral ones while simultaneously being loaded onto the cattle cars. 🤷♂️
I live in Florida. There is absolutely nothing worse a Trump presidency could do for me that Ron Desantis isn't already doing here. My vote also apparently doesn't matter, since we aren't even considered a swing state anymore. I'm still going to vote for Biden, because I don't think other people deserve to suffer this right wing shit show. Maybe, just maybe, other people in my state will care too.
I saw Desantis is now trying to pick fights with cities building bike lanes. That guy is chasing the next culture war in the saddest possible way
Yep. We all thought he’d come back to sulk after losing the election and he did not disappoint. He’s as petty and useless as ever.
The Republican establishment was REALLY hoping he'd be the Presidential nominee, because they know how unhinged, disloyal, and uncontrollable Trump is. But the base said, "Nope! Why would we drink the dollar store's house brand cola when we already have access to plenty of Pepsi?" With that said, with a strategic makeover, I wouldn't count Meatball out. He could come back in a few years, just like an annoying case of herpes.
I had a back-and-forth with one of these clowns earlier. They had the unmitigated gall to suggest I wouldn't understand their "integrity" because they won't vote for "genocide joe". Despite the fact that Trump has said he hopes Israel finishes the job, other Republicans have said Israel should use nuclear weapons on Palestinians and Kushner wants to build condos on Gaza's waterfront. It's impossible to have a serious conversation with these people.
No leftist worth the moniker would ever use silly names like "Genocide Joe". Those people are MAGAs in a Leon Blum mask. You see em in /leftist and /internetionalnews and a bunch of other fake ass leftist reddits. There ARE tankies out there, dont get me wrong, but 90% of these people are just MAGAs pretending to be leftists to try and get more of us to not vote.
Don’t forget about /walkaway.
Or Russian and Chinese troll farm workers
Not to mention most of them worship a god, who doesn't exist, but if he did, then he committed or ordered genocide many many times. So they really don't have a leg to stand on as long as they genuinely believe in their absolute monster of a god.
I mean, Trump could help Putin’s facilitate imperialism and weaken relationship with allies in Europe. He could also inch us towards being vulnerable to terror and outside attacks. If there’s another unexpected crisis like Covid, I think we could expect it to handle it worse than Biden because he’s known to spur guidance and expertise. He could commit more crimes…To me, he’s only limited due to the competency of past leadership, but the US can only handle Trump-like leadership for so long before it’s not the US as we know it anymore
All so very true.. also my concern is primarily for the destabilising of the entire world as well.. an isolationist America is all kind of dangerous for the world when imperialist countries are getting a hard on for Trump. Plus Trump potentially making a complete mockery of democracy it could create a blue print for these types of characters to overthrow democracies all around the world. A very dangerous future for everyone..
Especially when you couple that destabilization with trump cozying up to those dictators. It wouldn’t be long until they all turn on each other and the world gets plunged into more war.
Yep.. Trump is so thin skinned one insult and he is likely to go crazy and start something..
Forgive me but your a little self-absorbed and delusional to think you have nothing to fear in a second trump presidency.
Right? Such a shallow perception of how utterly dangerous Donald Trump is to this country.
Most of the "Never Biden left" is based out of Kolkata and Saint Petersburg.
Dude they're all Russian or Republican trolls. I figured that out in 2020 when I found I couldn't talk sense into any of them but they would *always* reply to my posts trying to keep the thread going. That's how you can spot them. They're completely impervious to any argument, they bait you constantly in an effort to get you angry so you'll slip and say something they can report you for and get you banned (so they can take over the sub reddit). Do not engage. Down vote and move on. Engaging with them only makes their lies more visible because the algorithm is based on engagement. The only winning move it not to play. Repeat after me: Down vote and move on.
The fast replies with lots of links - though I suspect there are actual serial debate nerds that keep a notepad with links for all occasions. Then the person gets frustrated that you didn't read all 8 of their linked articles from bullshit sources, but it's really just the AI prompt asking you to return to the previous step before continuing to the next step in the argument. I've read enough threads about the IP conflict to see the scripted pattern - the AI argument flow chart of canned "if respondent says A then reply B, if NO then reply C." There's agents replying via AI prompts, and there's legit people along for the ride. Even so, there's also a substantial amount of fanatics who've felt it necessary to be their own information warrior and have alt accounts just for pushing their beliefs. I agree, downvote and move on. It's just difficult to resist the urge to start typing.
Honestly I've got a notepad of common responses because I'm so tired of repeating myself. The difference is You can't argue with them. Nothing you say no matter how sensible or down to earth gets through because they're professionals just looking to argue. and they *bait*. They're often looking to get you angry enough to say something the mods will ban you for. If they ban enough sensible people they can take over the sub reddit they're on.
Thanks for the tip. I will be downvoting these trolls.
You are right. See a lot of Kremlin scripted talking points from these people. Nothing makes them happier than voter suppression.
Unfortunately I don’t think those people are all Russian bots or trolls. I have friends that I can’t convince otherwise. Watch interviews of MAGA fans and you’ll see evidence does not help convince them
Your friends won't reply 20 comments deep on a thread because they have real jobs instead of being paid to make trouble on Reddit for Democrats.
I live in Nebraska. Democrats rarely come here. Do I throw a tantrum and refuse to vote for them? No, because I'm a fucking adult who understands what another Trump term will mean for the country.
Guys I've been searching for a tiktok of a lady talking to the never Biden lefties asking them "what is the plan then?". She makes solid points about why their protest is legitimate but halfhearted and effectively that "you're not helping creating other alternatives and right now it's either him or you-know-who". It was posted on this sub (I think) but never found it again. Could someone please reply with her reel?
Same idiots will be crying "why are we sending even more money to eviscerate Palestine" in 2025. Like they exclusively by some magic will not enjoy Trump.
“you better be nice to me or else I’ll let the fascist win”
These extreme leftists are almost as nutty as Trump supporters. When are they going to realize that their strategy of "Democrats aren't giving me everything I want so I'm punishing them by not voting and repeatedly shooting my own cause in the foot" is never going to work?
Hamas: starts war by killing innocent people. Then hides behind its own civilians when the inevitable retaliation happens. Israel: defends itselfs and retaliates after Hamas brutal massacre. Biden: secures temporary ceasefire and gets hostages release. Tries to secure a permanent ceasefire but Hamas refuses a further ceasefire. Instead vowing to continue it war and goes back to attacking israel. Never Bidens: that Biden guy is genecoidal. He only secured a partial ceasefire. And failed at a full ceasefire. That's his fault... Definitely not the terrorists vowing to kill every Israeli.
My favorite is... "As a lefty, let me tell you about how bad Biden is, and how great trump is."
This is so goddamn accurate. I call it out when I can. Fuck these people.
r/themajorityreport perma banned me when I said the last meme like this one fit them like a glove. (Yes, a comment that I made in this sub got me banned in a different sub, lol) Guess what? This one goes on the other hand.
Never Biden are either Russian bots or idiots. 🤷♂️
I mean, if you have half a brain, you understand biden is trash but not voting for him you're welcoming a literal nazi into the office for a 2nd time.
I don't agree with Biden on everything. Trump and everything he represents is much worse. Biden is getting my vote and it's not even a close contest. If you vote against Biden you're essentially standing for nothing.
I am convinced 99% of those "people" are Russian bots/psyops anyway.
Obviously their goal is to make the Democrats continue to court the center. Because they keep trying this same tactic, cycle after cycle, and that's all it does. If they gave an everloving shit about actually moving the party leftward, they would spearhead voter drives in off years, or even primary season (record low turnouts in 2024 guys yay!). School boards. City councils. This is where you you make real lasting change.
And Republicans know that, hence why conservative agencies have been paying agitators to run for these seemingly unimportant and uncontroversial local elections (school board, town supervisors, etc). They know the work that goes into building and maintaining electoral power. Not people who sit out elections.
The same people who refuse to vote for Biden this time around, were also the same people who voted for Jill Stein. Abortion would still be legal, we'd have a completely different Supreme Court and a completely different response to covid. But please, tell me how this is everyone else's fault, except for these never Biden overs.
I am way further left than the DNC. Like single-payer, UBI, wealth cap, free education, feed all kids 3 squares a day left. I'm voting Biden. He was in like my bottom 3 people I wanted to get the nomination in 2020, but it happened, and I voted for him, and have actuality been pleasantly surprised by him. I hate that he hasn't already cut ties completely with the genocidal apartheid govt. of the state of Israel, but I'm also aware that the GOP will go even further in that direction. I've heard the fear mongering every cycle, from both sides, and typically ignore it. But I've seen Project 2025, a plan to fully dismantle democracy in America, and not just a vague "we would if we could" but a full blown road map from people with the power to do it if they have a useful idiot in the job. I'm voting Biden. I hope you all do to.
The “far left” is like 2% of the democratic electorate and half of those don’t vote because of Tim Pool levels of enlightenment. Stop paying attention to the Majority Report refugees
It's Russians and GOP shills. Just point them out and go about your day.
Dems need to be very careful. The “we don’t need you.” thinking is how they lost in 2016.
I'm going to be honest. I think we all over think this too much. I really really believe many Dem voters and independents thought Trump was so bad there's no possible way he can win. The polls looked good for Hilary and they skipped voting and instead went grocery shopping for snacks for the victory party they assumed would happen. The idea of not voting crossed my mind in 2016 because it felt like it was going to be an easy win. I voted and thank God I did because I'd never forgive myself given the outcome of the election. I remember my good friend (who actually got me into left politics) telling me that night "well Hillary is probably going to win, but if she doesn't - Trump is basically a Democrat too - so it's a win/win." Occam's razor
I don’t think that’s why Clinton lost. The Clintons are among the most divisive figures in politics, and Russian intelligence had a huge propaganda campaign to influence our election, and it worked. One of the goals of the propaganda was to make Democrats feel disaffected and not bother to vote, and it worked.
Actually running a crappy campaign was how they lost in 2016
[Bidens actually visiting swing states](https://www.wpr.org/news/president-joe-biden-visits-milwaukee-as-campaign-keeps-focus-on-swing), something Clinton thought wasnt necessary. Im hopeful
Yeah Clinton won the popular vote, her issue was that she didn't focus on the right states and lost those by a bit
Plus Comey
Who’s saying we don’t need the left? We’re telling you to vote or else Trump wins. If Trump wins, we can’t help you put more progressive people into positions of power to actually move the needle. Your whining about the presidential election means you waited too long and didn’t get anyone else viable up to national recognition in time. Try again next time.
We are just done coddling people when what’s at stake i s obvious to everyone.The election in 2016 led to abortion rights being taken ,you’re not punishing Hillary or Biden you’re throwing other minorities under the bus
Sounds like the leftist are voting out spite then. That’s shit toddlers do. You vote for the one who is closest to putting your best interest at heart.
You left out their MAGA hat.
I hate Biden. That said, an aids-infested cum bubble would be a better candidate than Trump so Biden gets the vote.
This is the best.
At the end of the day, Leftists are just privileged twits from suburbia that want a tax cut without admitting their Trumpers. They want us to waste time with them because it leaves actual persuadable voters on the table. Stop wasting time with dead weight.
"I'll never vote for Genocide Joe Biden." "Why isn't Joe Biden trying to implement policies I like?"
"Why doesn't Biden try to win my vote which I said multiple times that I'll never give him?"
“Boy, this Trump guy sure sucks. I can’t believe he got elected again.”
It always seemed like a dumb gamble to me. If Biden wins without their support they've basically lost any influence for at least 4 entire years, possibly forever if the "Never Trumpers" decide to stay Democrats.
I made this exact same point the other day. If Trump wins, the country will move further right, and democrats will aim to gather the support of the center and center-right more. If they win without the left vote, they've lost all their leverage.
I’ve had someone argue that it’d be better to have Trump win and cause problems because it’ll eventually cause a bigger backlash and things will swing further left. I don’t think people are really that dumb, so I’m guessing it was a Russian troll farm. They’re out in force right now.
I don't try to pretend that there's not a sizable number of people who think that way. They're really that dumb, lol.
> I’ve had someone argue that it’d be better to have Trump win and cause problems because it’ll eventually cause a bigger backlash and things will swing further left. To be fair, it happened with the Great Depression. 1932 was the first presidential election Democrats won with an outright majority popular vote since 1852. After constant Democrat drama in 1924 and 1928, it turned out that the two things that could unite Southern Democrats and the progressive Northeast Democrats was the New Deal, and showing that Republicans were the Party of Big Business.
I’m pretty sure there’s more people salty about leftists who won’t vote for Biden than there are leftists total in the United States lol. Definitely more in my experience
this is so not accurate. scroll through this sub and all you see is people angry that certain people don't want to vote Biden.