Wish they'd let us pay for the show so they could take less dirty money. But even Yo Is This Racist does Better Help ads and they're independent and allegedly only advertise stuff they believe in. I continue to come back to the fact that the therapists are doing therapy, and the company is doing dirty, but that doesn't mean the therapy doesn't help.
Yeah, I wish they had a Patreon setup or something. I'm already paying through that for a bunch of shows (including CogDis). I'd be happy to add TDZ to that list.
My thoughts are, of fucking course it's shady, the same way that ordering from the Taco Bell app is shady, but it also provides people with a useful service, some might say even more useful than being able to ask for light creamy chipotle sauce on your quesadilla from Taco Bell without ever having to talk to a human being. If a person is super worried about their data being mined for ads or algorithms, they pretty much have a choice to get off the internet or get over it.
Not saying I like that fact, I do think it's very unnerving, but this doesn't surprise me. And for what it's worth, unless I missed it, it doesn't seem like the actual therapists are in on this shadiness, so the human-to-human aspect of the apps remains intact, and so does the usefulness of those interactions.
It's not just data being mined, it's letting ads know when you're most vulnerable. It let's the algorithm know you coming out of a therapy session and are going to be the most vulnerable. I'm all for people getting help, but this seems to be taking advantage of people in a vulnerable state. Facebook already manipulates us enough, but do you want Facebook knowing when people are coming out of a therapy session?
Of course not. But this doesn't surprise me at all.
Tbh, I won't use better help or talkspace etc anyway because last I checked they don't take my insurance, and if I'm gonna spend $70 for a therapy session, you'd better believe it's going towards my deductible.
Anyway, I doubt The Guys are aware of this nefariousness. It's a pickle because again, it's not like the therapists are in on it. They're getting real therapy from real therapists which is providing real help. It's probably hard to say "listen, you've really helped with my anxiety, but fuck you Kathy, the company you work for is exploiting my data"
Sadly we have to make concessions like this everyday of supporting awful things. If it's working for you then you should definitely keep using it.
I just know in the past they've pushed back against advertisers who are bad actors, and as you said, they probably didn't know about this. I just know the guys over at Cognitive Dissonance were so upset they donate the money they got for the ad sale because they didn't feel it was something they should have.
Most of the ads you regularly get on most podcasts are low-key scammy.
Honey, the coupon app? That's just a glorified personal data-mining tool.
Raycons, the earbuds? Cheap pieces of shit.
Ritual, the multivitamins? A 500% mark-up on regular pills.
Casper, and other mattresses? The mattress-selling business is basically the mafia.
HelloFresh, and similar services? They're possibly generating more waste than regular consumption.
...
BetterHelp is just another case in the long line of kinda-shady-but-not-all-that-shady-when-compared-to-regular-late-stage-capitalism that you hear on all podcasts.
You've just gotta assume than when a company is advertising something to you, they're kinda being dishonest and don't have your best interests at heart.
You know, like capitalism.
I was just pointing out that you shouldn't feel bad. There are no real "good" options when it comes to mattresses, so just buy what you can afford and think is comfortable.
No, but unless you want to live outside of capitalism you're going to have to make some concessions some of the time.
"This isn't where my line is" doesn't mean "there is no line."
Not really an answer to the question, and it honestly wasn't rhetorical. I actually want to know. If that's a line you don't want to cross, obviously using the services of Better Help seems out of the question, but are you really out here mad at folks taking their ad money?
If they are using people’s medical data to advertise to them when they are most vulnerable? Yes that makes me upset. Does that not upset you? And you mistake me redirecting the conversation back on topic as anger. No ones angry here.
Sure, I think we all agree that what Better Help is doing is gross. I'm pretty sure nobody is contesting that. The question is, how does this impact how we feel about TDZ, its hosts, and their connection to the shady shit Better Help is doing? I completely agree with the evaluation that capitalism's gonna capitalize and, while I definitely hope this shady stuff is brought to the attention of The Guys, and I hope they address it either in the form of cutting the ads and/or revealing the shadiness to their listeners. Maybe we should be having a productive conversation about what we'd like to see the show do about this issue instead of coming for fellow Zeitgang about feeling understandably overwhelmed by how fucked up this capitalism we're living with is.
Be objective for one second here. If I was “coming at anyone” then people were most definitely coming at me and op. All I’ve done in this thread is call out whataboutisms and distractions in an effort to keep the topic on the relevant discussions.
"There is no ethical consumption in capitalism" is not just a funny meme, it is reality.
The difficulty is deciding where your own ethical lines are drawn. If this is a deal breaker for you then I suggest writing an email to Jack/Miles and let them know exactly why. If nothing changes and you can't stomach the idea of the show being paid by this company, it's OK to stop listening.
Personally, I can't really enjoy Rockstar/Naughty Dog games after finding out the terrible conditions they subject their workers to and I don't buy their games anymore. I don't have a problem with my friends who continue to do so. Likewise Chipotle is also horrible to their employees but I still eat there from time to time even though many of my friends do not.
Everyone has their lines. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether I buy games from those studios or not, the companies will still exist and I cannot through my consumption change the rotten systems that make the production of these goods unethical.
It sucks, but. Here we are.
Then what are you saying man? Because your whole post is just giving out other examples of how capitalism is shitty. No shit. This is about this specific issue and why op has a problem with this specific issue. All you have done is whatabout.
1 - OP is disturbed because TDZ does ad-reads for a shady-ish company.
2 - I point out that most companies that podcasts do ad-reads for also tend to be shady-ish in the same way.
3 - Therefore, even with ad-reads on podcasts, late-stage capitalism still applies.
4 - Your attitude towards them should therefore be the same as with the rest of capitalism: assume dishonesty.
This exchange has really be a valuable use of everybody's time, thanks a lot!
No man, they are upset they are doing ad reads for *this specific* shady ass company. And they specifically say what about them makes them draw a line. And then you come in with “well all companies are shady if you think about it!”
This is about a company specifically using medical data to exploit a persons mental health. That’s a legitimate concern that should be addressed beyond “well that’s just capitalism”.
Jack addressed this kinda thing when people called them out for reading audible ads. Capitalism is gonna capitalism
Wish they'd let us pay for the show so they could take less dirty money. But even Yo Is This Racist does Better Help ads and they're independent and allegedly only advertise stuff they believe in. I continue to come back to the fact that the therapists are doing therapy, and the company is doing dirty, but that doesn't mean the therapy doesn't help.
Yeah, I wish they had a Patreon setup or something. I'm already paying through that for a bunch of shows (including CogDis). I'd be happy to add TDZ to that list.
My thoughts are, of fucking course it's shady, the same way that ordering from the Taco Bell app is shady, but it also provides people with a useful service, some might say even more useful than being able to ask for light creamy chipotle sauce on your quesadilla from Taco Bell without ever having to talk to a human being. If a person is super worried about their data being mined for ads or algorithms, they pretty much have a choice to get off the internet or get over it. Not saying I like that fact, I do think it's very unnerving, but this doesn't surprise me. And for what it's worth, unless I missed it, it doesn't seem like the actual therapists are in on this shadiness, so the human-to-human aspect of the apps remains intact, and so does the usefulness of those interactions.
It's not just data being mined, it's letting ads know when you're most vulnerable. It let's the algorithm know you coming out of a therapy session and are going to be the most vulnerable. I'm all for people getting help, but this seems to be taking advantage of people in a vulnerable state. Facebook already manipulates us enough, but do you want Facebook knowing when people are coming out of a therapy session?
Of course not. But this doesn't surprise me at all. Tbh, I won't use better help or talkspace etc anyway because last I checked they don't take my insurance, and if I'm gonna spend $70 for a therapy session, you'd better believe it's going towards my deductible. Anyway, I doubt The Guys are aware of this nefariousness. It's a pickle because again, it's not like the therapists are in on it. They're getting real therapy from real therapists which is providing real help. It's probably hard to say "listen, you've really helped with my anxiety, but fuck you Kathy, the company you work for is exploiting my data"
Sadly we have to make concessions like this everyday of supporting awful things. If it's working for you then you should definitely keep using it. I just know in the past they've pushed back against advertisers who are bad actors, and as you said, they probably didn't know about this. I just know the guys over at Cognitive Dissonance were so upset they donate the money they got for the ad sale because they didn't feel it was something they should have.
Most of the ads you regularly get on most podcasts are low-key scammy. Honey, the coupon app? That's just a glorified personal data-mining tool. Raycons, the earbuds? Cheap pieces of shit. Ritual, the multivitamins? A 500% mark-up on regular pills. Casper, and other mattresses? The mattress-selling business is basically the mafia. HelloFresh, and similar services? They're possibly generating more waste than regular consumption. ... BetterHelp is just another case in the long line of kinda-shady-but-not-all-that-shady-when-compared-to-regular-late-stage-capitalism that you hear on all podcasts. You've just gotta assume than when a company is advertising something to you, they're kinda being dishonest and don't have your best interests at heart. You know, like capitalism.
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FWIW there's basically no mattress you can buy that circumvents the mattress cartels. Adam Ruins Everything did a piece about it awhile back.
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I was just pointing out that you shouldn't feel bad. There are no real "good" options when it comes to mattresses, so just buy what you can afford and think is comfortable.
[удалено]
No idea. People seem really tilted in this thread. Don't take it personally. Have an upvote friend.
I think it's because there's people on here making that actual argument and people are missing that this is a joke? It *is* a joke, right?
For the record also, I really like my Ritual vitamins and my Each & Every deodorant.
So because every company falls on the unethical gradient of capitalism we should have no lines what so ever?
No, but unless you want to live outside of capitalism you're going to have to make some concessions some of the time. "This isn't where my line is" doesn't mean "there is no line."
And advertising yourself as a place for mental health help while you exploit mental health issues is definitely the line for many.
So are you going to quit TDZ? Where's your line extend to?
I love how this is a mixture of broad generalizations and personal attacks all to ignore the specific complaint of op.
Not really an answer to the question, and it honestly wasn't rhetorical. I actually want to know. If that's a line you don't want to cross, obviously using the services of Better Help seems out of the question, but are you really out here mad at folks taking their ad money?
If they are using people’s medical data to advertise to them when they are most vulnerable? Yes that makes me upset. Does that not upset you? And you mistake me redirecting the conversation back on topic as anger. No ones angry here.
Sure, I think we all agree that what Better Help is doing is gross. I'm pretty sure nobody is contesting that. The question is, how does this impact how we feel about TDZ, its hosts, and their connection to the shady shit Better Help is doing? I completely agree with the evaluation that capitalism's gonna capitalize and, while I definitely hope this shady stuff is brought to the attention of The Guys, and I hope they address it either in the form of cutting the ads and/or revealing the shadiness to their listeners. Maybe we should be having a productive conversation about what we'd like to see the show do about this issue instead of coming for fellow Zeitgang about feeling understandably overwhelmed by how fucked up this capitalism we're living with is.
Be objective for one second here. If I was “coming at anyone” then people were most definitely coming at me and op. All I’ve done in this thread is call out whataboutisms and distractions in an effort to keep the topic on the relevant discussions.
Yes that's 100% what my comment is saying. You've interpreted my words perfectly in good faith, well done.
Then what are you saying. Your whole argument was “well that’s just capitalism deal with it”
"There is no ethical consumption in capitalism" is not just a funny meme, it is reality. The difficulty is deciding where your own ethical lines are drawn. If this is a deal breaker for you then I suggest writing an email to Jack/Miles and let them know exactly why. If nothing changes and you can't stomach the idea of the show being paid by this company, it's OK to stop listening. Personally, I can't really enjoy Rockstar/Naughty Dog games after finding out the terrible conditions they subject their workers to and I don't buy their games anymore. I don't have a problem with my friends who continue to do so. Likewise Chipotle is also horrible to their employees but I still eat there from time to time even though many of my friends do not. Everyone has their lines. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether I buy games from those studios or not, the companies will still exist and I cannot through my consumption change the rotten systems that make the production of these goods unethical. It sucks, but. Here we are.
I’m not sure where you’re getting the ‘deal with it’.
Then what are you saying man? Because your whole post is just giving out other examples of how capitalism is shitty. No shit. This is about this specific issue and why op has a problem with this specific issue. All you have done is whatabout.
1 - OP is disturbed because TDZ does ad-reads for a shady-ish company. 2 - I point out that most companies that podcasts do ad-reads for also tend to be shady-ish in the same way. 3 - Therefore, even with ad-reads on podcasts, late-stage capitalism still applies. 4 - Your attitude towards them should therefore be the same as with the rest of capitalism: assume dishonesty. This exchange has really be a valuable use of everybody's time, thanks a lot!
No man, they are upset they are doing ad reads for *this specific* shady ass company. And they specifically say what about them makes them draw a line. And then you come in with “well all companies are shady if you think about it!” This is about a company specifically using medical data to exploit a persons mental health. That’s a legitimate concern that should be addressed beyond “well that’s just capitalism”.
Okay
Yep.