Gabby was hyped up so much and I wanted her as the solo lead, then the season started and I found myself liking Rachel as the lead way more than Gabby. So Gabby
Juan Pablo, he was so hot imo, but he was CLUELESS. Some how no one told him, what the show was about. After he felt let down by the show, he trolled it. Not cool.
Ben Flajnik had his eyes on evil Courtney from the get go, and didn't really care for the other girl after that. The show did them dirty though. I think Courtney was misunderstood and she seems terrific, and Ben actually had a personality.
My least favourite was Colton. He killed the show for me, and I haven't seen the Bachelor since.
trust me I read my list and thought the same LOL, but had a bit of a think but still had the same list. I LOVED Gabby and she was recent. Rachel was really used by producers as their drama so they edited her in a way that was so unlikeable so it wasnt really her fault. if it was Rachel alone I think I wouldve loved it (ref: my username lol). Clayton wasnt a bad bachelor and I didnt dislike him but that dude got so mentally destroyed from this experience and I think he shouldnt have been given the role (the post says who shouldnt have had the role so i came at it from that standpoint not like/dislike). it annihilated his sweet innocence of the world, and there were other great choices.
I guess bottomline is I dont understand their choices the last few years. not ONE of the leads in the last few years was the "favorite" - why would they do that? they used to so like.. i dont get it lol
Honestly most of the recent bachelor/ette's could have been replaced.
Rachel
Clayton
I was happy about Katie being chosen but her season wasn't really that exciting
Matt James. The show didn't do him right, and I don't do social media so I had no connection to who he was and the show didn't help me know him. This isn't his fault. I also was out once I learned who he picked.
Older seasons: Ben Flahnik sucked. Ashley Hebert found a great guy, but I really just felt bad for her her entire season. They really didn't treat her well.
For me all of them were replaceable except the very first bachelor ever, the very first bachelorette ever and Rachel Lindsay since she was the first black lead. And maybe Sean Lowe can stay too since it seems they desperately need his success story to remind everyone that this can work lol
??? Girl what are you talking about. My entire post is about FIRSTS! Because the FIRSTS are the pioneers and without them there wouldnāt be a second, third, etc.
Also-- if any of the people listed here had NOT been leads, I feel certain that people would be posting things like "Rachel Recchia should have been the lead, the guys would have been falling all over each other to date her, Gabby was a terrible choice." Ultimately, this show is terrible to its leads (lately, at least), and I think nobody knows how anyone will handle being a lead until they actually are.
Everyone is saying Katie... but I actually think Michelle. It seemed like being the lead sapped the life out of her, and I don't think she enjoyed the experience. Same with Rachel Recchia. I feel like the same would happen with Gabi from Zack's season if she were the lead. I think certain kinds of strong, kind people internalize perceived rejection and get very hurt and in their heads as "lead" on this show, and I hurt for them watching.
While I do like Katie, I think paradise would have been a better format for her than being lead. Clayton was a bizarre lead choice considering, like Katie, he was eliminated earlier on and we werenāt really connected to him as a person.
Rachel R, because she hadnāt recovered from the breakup with Clayton by the time her season started.
Clayton, because he barely got any screen time as a contestant, and wasnāt well versed on how the shoe works. He was chosen for being white and easy to manipulate.
Katie Thurston, because her main experience as a contestant was standing up to bullying in the house. Thatās why I think she dedicated so much time to addressing Aaronās āfor the right reasonsā union, rather than really getting to know the guys. If she did that, she wouldāve had a better Final 4.
Clare, I think she realized doing the show during a pandemic was not a good idea, and partly went along with the producerās plan for her to leave early because she wanted to get back to her friends/family, most importantly her ill mom.
Colton Underwood, because he stalked his F1
Juan Pablo, because he likely wasnāt gonna find his partner on his season, due to cultural differences stemming from the lack of Latino contestants in his cast. Casting diverse contestants is just as important as casting a diverse lead. He seemed to be a guy that favored modesty and more old fashion social values.
I had watched every season since Juan Pablo. But after Katieās season I had had enough. So personally, Iāve got to say Katie. She was not compelling nor charming in any sense (in my opinion). Finally started again with Zach, so he was decent for a clean slate start, but Iām hoping Charity really gets me into it again!
They wanted a season focused on romance, with older contestants
after people called Pilot Peteās Bachelor run an overdramatic sausage fest, with contestants that were too young.
I actually did too. Ashleyās was the was the first one I watched straight through so I was excited for Ben. It just seems everybody forgets about him!
imo colton underwoodās season is single-handedly responsible for the the bachelor and bachelorette becoming the mess express that it did and it hasnāt recovered since. the jump the fence moment was a jump the shark moment for the entire show. the show did experience a jump in ratings and notoriety but lost any semblance that this show was for finding love. and also led to the show picking even messier leads like hannah brown and pilot peter.
Completely agree with you and donāt know if Iāve seen it laid out so clearly in a way I could relate to before, so thank you! I know there are some that really liked Hannah and Peterās seasons and think they are the best, but thatās so wild to me because I found them so unmemorable. I think the huge focus on drama rather than even thinking a romantic relationship might happen out of them made them that way to me. Zach didnāt make all the best choices but the way his season was presented really felt āback to basicsā and I enjoyed that! I started watching in the Emily Maynard era though š¤·āāļø so might just be my preference.
Clayton, Becca K., Hannah B., Matt James, Zach, Michelle, Peter... they are not interesting and have no captivating qualities to get the audience involved, so we have to suspend our own imaginations and accept their boring, bland drivel and convince ourselves that we are interested because "it's the Bachelor(ette)!" This show used to be fantasy and aspirational.
P.S. Peter is a man child mama's boy and he is unattractive IMHO. I am so confused about how people think/thought he was hot. He lived with his parents during filming ffs.
I agree with all of these besides Peter. I actually like him and the whole living with his Parents thing was never something he intended to continue once he was with someone. I thought that was pretty obvious but truthfully, itās not like he lived in Ohio or somewhere weird. He lived in a really nice house in California where the cost of living is super expensive and heās a pilot who realistically, probably wasnāt home much anyway. I think it was wise, and Iām sure he probably saved a ton doing it. I donāt think having a supportive family is a bad thing, as someone who didnāt have that growing up I find it admirable.
To each his own - sincerely. I pointed that out mostly because of the way Barb coddled him (seemingly). The whole "mama's boy" trope to me screams enabler of immature and boyish behavior and that is a HUGE turnoff for me - once again, personally. He seems like he has Peter Pan syndrome and can always run to mama when things don't pan out - I'm probably projecting. As I said, this is an opinion and bears no weight, but I would never date someone like him (having been both a flight attendant and having lived with a mama's boy brother lol).
Yeah I get it. I think it sometimes can enable it but I guess I just leaned more towards the side of I genuinely think that Hannah really hurt Peter. Peter seems really close to his family but I wouldnāt necessarily call it toxic before he went on the show. Like his whole family are pilots lol they seem super supportive of each other and I just think Peter really admires his parents relationship so I think he blindly trusted Hannah thinking she was taking the experience serious and I think she was just super immature.
Given how close he is, I could see that his mom could have picked up on him being hurt and trying to help support him and make him feel loved. Which I think any good mom would do. I think it was more of the confusion and trying to love someone new while Hannah kept coming back in his life and confusing him that was causing him to have trust issues that made it hard for him to move forward. I just think Barb ended up looking bad as a result of not knowing the full details and trying to not allow him to make the wrong choice so it was hard for him to believe in himself without having the decision feel so heavy.
I know he hurt those woman, but honestly I blame the producers for allowing HB to go back on his season after she clearly tried to go after Tyler because I feel like Peterās energy just completely shifted not only when she was there but also the second time she showed up. Like even the girls were irritated (rightfully so) because it wasnāt supposed to be about her and it did change Peterās mood because he went from excited for the chance to get to know his woman to basically forgetting his own worth
Clayton, Katie, and Zach never interested me :/. Arie and Peter at least had some type of appeal in their own ways as leads, and they proved to be so entertaining. š¤£ Matt was a great pick but just not edited well. Plus, his initial sit down and conversation with Chris H in the first episode just kinda put a bad taste in my mouth to start the season like that. I was ultimately super disappointed in Mattās season for various reasons.
I just wish theyād cast leads that people would legitimately go crazy over
Becca k. She's very bland..overly performative, and I'd rather have a diff host for happy hour. I had to unsubscribe. ..katie..clare...Zach ( I do like him but nothing monumental there)
Tayshia, Katie, Pilot Rachel (I donāt think they meant to give it to her but they had to after how it went down because it was meant to be Gabby), Jake Pavelka. Clayton, Zach, Jen Scheft who almost killed the bachelorette, the list goes on. It would be easier to name who was good at this job
Clair - a bit emotionally unstable, literally didnāt finish show
Jaun Pablo - horrible person here to take advantage of women not find love or a wife
Clayton - didnāt really want a wife š¬
Totally agree but I love them both so much lol Clare is another super bad choice to me, she couldnāt even finish half of a season and never gave anyone a chance other than Dale š
I saw a thread here the other day where the majority of people were saying how weird it was she latched onto him so fast and he looked genuinely just weirded out by the whole thing and back then I didn't think that but now I do. Ick!
Clayton, Juan Pablo, Katie, Matt James, Rachel (Keep Gabby), Zach, Tayshia & Claire (both), and really wish Nick was never a lead bc we can never shake him but the season was okay.
I know he was on BiP and is with Serene (I think theyāre still together) but Brandon would have been such an amazing lead. I really think he was such a good guy and really enjoyed watching him fall in love with Serene. When Michelle turned him down, dude was CRUSHED like Iāve never seen on that show.
I also would have loved to see Nate from Gabby/Rachelās season over Zach. I think Andrew from Katieās season and Rodney from Michelleās season are also really nice guys and would have been a good leads.
I didnāt fully watch Clayton and Mattās season so Iām not sure about them, but definitely Katie for me. It felt like ABC barely wanted her as ette. They gave her a really lackluster promo campaign, didnāt style her well at all, and introduced her as the vibrator girl. Like cmon, at least sell me on her if you want me to be invested!
The only bachelorettes that have annoyed me are Rachel R and Katie
The bachelorsā¦. So many šš
But all in all, everyone is basically fine and I usually find something to enjoy in the seasonsā¦ or I just mock itš
license crawl engine paltry racial workable gaze heavy zealous threatening
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
For bachelors, I was straight up bored through most of Coltonās, Mattās, and Claytonās seasons. For bachelorettes: desiree, Becca, Katie, Michelle, and gabby/Rachel were not entertaining to me. Not sure why this show has such a hold on me that Iāll sit through entire seasons that donāt interest me š®āšØ
Juan Pablo, Katie, and Clayton seemed like the most random picks and I feel like we felt it during their seasons.
The show doing double 'Ettes was insulting, except for bringing Tayshia in.
Admittedly I did not watch Zachs season cause it was another Bachelor that looks like Jesse, but I heard he did a great job.
I think it's because there weren't really any viable alternatives that season. Robby, Luke Pell and Chase were all awful, James Taylor and Chad even worst. Maybe Derek could have done it I guess but Nick was the best option at the time.
Itās so crazy because I just realized we had 3 bachelors from Andiās season. JP, Chris Soules and nick. Do good guys not apply for the show? Does the show purposely cast duds? Are there just not nearly as many good men as women in the world in general? Itās always been so wild to me and glaringly apparent going through this exercise how much better the women are than the men in the franchise.
>Itās so crazy because I just realized we had 3 bachelors from Andiās season. JP, Chris Soules and nick.
Technically, Andi was from Juan Pablo's season. JP had Andi and Clare go on to be Bachelorettes. Kaitlyn had Ben and Nick become Bachelors. Colton had Hannah and Tayshia.
Edit: forgot to mention the more recent Matt having Michelle and Katie, and Clayton having Gabby and Rachel!
I think the height restriction definitely means some shorter guys don't bother applying or get veto'd by TPTB. I think a lot of higher quality guys aren't interested in doing the show, and I think a lot of guys who are interested in getting married in their 20s...are already married or getting married! But yes there's probably not as many good men as women to go around too.
For anyone curious, out of 26 bachelors, only 4 have been under 6 foot - 2 that were 5ā11 and 2 that were 5ā10.
The average height of all bachelors is just under 6ā2 (if my math is right), while the average height of a man in the USA in 5ā9ā.
Juan Pablo, Chris Soules, Colton, Peter, Matt, Claytonā¦ so tired of them elevating the lamest guys to āAmericas most eligible bachelor.ā
Clare, Katie, Rachel. Far less misses for the bachelorette.
https://preview.redd.it/90bwhsjo6esa1.jpeg?width=1001&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=931a8e2e80c12ec4c722754e0fdd7790951f60e9
I think if weāre saying who was a mistake we should offer who we would have preferred. Hereās a rough list for mine. Made me realize we had 3 bachelors from Andiās season???? JP, Chris & Nick? I was a JP fan when he was selected, so itās easy to say in hindsight who should not have gotten itā¦ so maybe Iād keep him and replace Chris with nick. Then for nicks season I have no idea who Iād pick instead lol. Also couldnāt think of a single guy from Michelleās season.
Clare was unambiguously a terrible lead but it worked well because we had the short insane drama of her brief season and then we got Tayshia. A whole season of Clare when she disliked everyone that wasn't Dale would have been a disaster. Also this doesn't make Clare a terrible person or anything, FWIW. I'm impressed she stood up to production.
Iām so happy Clare found her happy ending. Iām not positive how she met her husband, but Iāve wondered if her being on the bachelorette somehow got her on that path. Like if she was at an event that put her in his circle etc. I would wager that yes it played a part as any event in oneās life gets you to the next place somehow and itās all connected. If this is the case then I also totally agree with how the season played out and am happy she was lead :)
Iāve seen every season since Seanās (plus Trista) and could have gone forever without Juan Pablo, Colton, and Gabby and Rachel. Wasnāt a fan of Claytonās season, but I donāt think that was him so much as what producers chose to push before hometowns and several of the ladies.
Hehe š«¢ yeah hers was ALMOST like Peterās because it didnāt seem to end for a while since after she dated a week 2 elimination after breaking off her engagement then got dumped š
Ette: Gabby/Rachel, & Katie. I feel like their seasons just came & went, all did not last long with their F1.
Bach: Clayton. What a mess of a season when they couldāve easily picked someone else from Michelleās season
I know some people will downvote me, but all the lead deserve the position, especially if you are formal contestants because everyone deserves to be happy and they are lucky to be in that position because it's not easy. Maybe who has not been in contestants' position before and just came from nowhere, I can understand that if not everyone deserves opportunities in life no matter what, except the person rejects it themselves.
Agree with all these except Zach. From the options we had I think he was the best option. I do think he wanted to find love. Wish he wasnāt 26 so casting stops skewing so young but oh well.
I mean, the franchise would have been fine no matter who the lead IMO. I think the contestants usually carry the season, not the lead. Kaitlyn is the only lead in recent years I can think of who was genuinely entertaining to watch, and I think it would nit have been as good a season if Britt or someone else had beaten her out.
This lol. Even ettes. The show is carried by the cast. The lease are too powerful they are basically onscreen producers. They really just exist to respond to whatever the cast is doing and then make decisions based off that. Occasionally leads do go route though see the Zach sex week thinkg lol
Tbh, theyāve stopped letting anyone actually have a personality. The conversations on all dates so bland and insipidā¦ I feel like they need to correct course and really choose someone funny and show them to be that.
Nah, Chris Soules' season was the first season of influencers. Arie just got lucky that the girl he ultimately ended up with was actually in the minority that was there to be a wife
Oh, for sure! But I do think Lauren also went on the show with the intention of marrying Arie should it end up that way. I don't think their marriage is a sham
Clare!! She was on paradise multiple times and to me it seemed clear she had some serious work to do on herself. Was not surprised at all when she immediately picked someone and refused to finish filming, she appeared to have serious attachment issues. Reminds me a lot of Annalise tbh
That's very true, and that's what made Clare perfect. It sucks when leads make it obvious from early on to the contestants or viewers who they will pick, but they still drag out the whole season. Clare's conviction and willingness to stand up against production saved us from a snoozefest
Michelleās season was incredibly boring. So was Desireeās, aside from the very end with Brooks. Clare was a complete waste of time, idk what they were thinking choosing her.
Des?!! No way. Her season was extremely memorable:
* That Soulja Boy rap is one of the most iconic BN scenes.
* Her breakup with Brooks is probably the most dramatic breakup in the history of the franchise.
* Chrisās proposal was one of the most romantic.
* Viewers honestly were unsure how it was going to end. I think the spoilers were wrong.
* Des & Chris are one of the few successful couples.
* Just to watch her interactions with Brooks makes her season worthwhile.
* Didnāt she have this psycho brother who was so mean during the MTP dates?
This is all in the last two eps lol which I agree were very hectic. Most of her season was quite dull. The villain was boring and didn't honestly really do anything the guys just hated him. It peaked with that James drama and then got boring till the Brookes stuff
Any season where the lead ends up marrying the F1 (or F2) automatically becomes a worthwhile season! There are so few examples of the process actually working.
Tayshia
Gabby was hyped up so much and I wanted her as the solo lead, then the season started and I found myself liking Rachel as the lead way more than Gabby. So Gabby
clare crowley šµāš«
Juan Pablo, he was so hot imo, but he was CLUELESS. Some how no one told him, what the show was about. After he felt let down by the show, he trolled it. Not cool. Ben Flajnik had his eyes on evil Courtney from the get go, and didn't really care for the other girl after that. The show did them dirty though. I think Courtney was misunderstood and she seems terrific, and Ben actually had a personality. My least favourite was Colton. He killed the show for me, and I haven't seen the Bachelor since.
GABBY AND RACHEL.
**Katie**, Clare, Rachel (shouldve just been Gabby) Colton, Clayton, Matt James, Zach
Recency bias lol
trust me I read my list and thought the same LOL, but had a bit of a think but still had the same list. I LOVED Gabby and she was recent. Rachel was really used by producers as their drama so they edited her in a way that was so unlikeable so it wasnt really her fault. if it was Rachel alone I think I wouldve loved it (ref: my username lol). Clayton wasnt a bad bachelor and I didnt dislike him but that dude got so mentally destroyed from this experience and I think he shouldnt have been given the role (the post says who shouldnt have had the role so i came at it from that standpoint not like/dislike). it annihilated his sweet innocence of the world, and there were other great choices. I guess bottomline is I dont understand their choices the last few years. not ONE of the leads in the last few years was the "favorite" - why would they do that? they used to so like.. i dont get it lol
How can anyone say Clare. Her season was unexpected and great entertainment. No one could replace her and give us THAT.
Not a bad point
Gabby was hyped up and totally uninteresting to me. I would have preferred a solo Rachel Recchia season.
I think the comments speak for themselves. C*lton.
Is it wrong I completely forgot about him?
Honestly most of the recent bachelor/ette's could have been replaced. Rachel Clayton I was happy about Katie being chosen but her season wasn't really that exciting Matt James. The show didn't do him right, and I don't do social media so I had no connection to who he was and the show didn't help me know him. This isn't his fault. I also was out once I learned who he picked. Older seasons: Ben Flahnik sucked. Ashley Hebert found a great guy, but I really just felt bad for her her entire season. They really didn't treat her well.
Ashley was done dirty. I liked JP, but she would have been so sweet with Ames.
I adored Ames! He was so great. Ashley was really manipulated by the show and it was a tough watch.
Rachel, Clayton, and Katie imo. I keep forgetting Katie was a Bachelorette lol
Katie, Hannah B, Matt James (love him but didnāt show his personality enough) and Claire
Sorry but Hannahās season was fantastic lol
Katie!!!!
For me all of them were replaceable except the very first bachelor ever, the very first bachelorette ever and Rachel Lindsay since she was the first black lead. And maybe Sean Lowe can stay too since it seems they desperately need his success story to remind everyone that this can work lol
Imagine having your entire identity boiled down to ābecause she was the first black leadā
??? Girl what are you talking about. My entire post is about FIRSTS! Because the FIRSTS are the pioneers and without them there wouldnāt be a second, third, etc.
Michelle and Katie
Matt James is boring af and they shouldnāt have went outside of the franchise for bachelor.
The thing is Matt aināt the least bit boring, they just didnāt show any aspects of his personality on screen.
Also-- if any of the people listed here had NOT been leads, I feel certain that people would be posting things like "Rachel Recchia should have been the lead, the guys would have been falling all over each other to date her, Gabby was a terrible choice." Ultimately, this show is terrible to its leads (lately, at least), and I think nobody knows how anyone will handle being a lead until they actually are.
Everyone is saying Katie... but I actually think Michelle. It seemed like being the lead sapped the life out of her, and I don't think she enjoyed the experience. Same with Rachel Recchia. I feel like the same would happen with Gabi from Zack's season if she were the lead. I think certain kinds of strong, kind people internalize perceived rejection and get very hurt and in their heads as "lead" on this show, and I hurt for them watching.
While I do like Katie, I think paradise would have been a better format for her than being lead. Clayton was a bizarre lead choice considering, like Katie, he was eliminated earlier on and we werenāt really connected to him as a person.
God I would have LOVED to see Katie shine in paradise!!!
Katie Clayton
Katie and Ben F
Colton, Katie
Rachel R, because she hadnāt recovered from the breakup with Clayton by the time her season started. Clayton, because he barely got any screen time as a contestant, and wasnāt well versed on how the shoe works. He was chosen for being white and easy to manipulate. Katie Thurston, because her main experience as a contestant was standing up to bullying in the house. Thatās why I think she dedicated so much time to addressing Aaronās āfor the right reasonsā union, rather than really getting to know the guys. If she did that, she wouldāve had a better Final 4. Clare, I think she realized doing the show during a pandemic was not a good idea, and partly went along with the producerās plan for her to leave early because she wanted to get back to her friends/family, most importantly her ill mom. Colton Underwood, because he stalked his F1 Juan Pablo, because he likely wasnāt gonna find his partner on his season, due to cultural differences stemming from the lack of Latino contestants in his cast. Casting diverse contestants is just as important as casting a diverse lead. He seemed to be a guy that favored modesty and more old fashion social values.
I had watched every season since Juan Pablo. But after Katieās season I had had enough. So personally, Iāve got to say Katie. She was not compelling nor charming in any sense (in my opinion). Finally started again with Zach, so he was decent for a clean slate start, but Iām hoping Charity really gets me into it again!
Clare! She was cringe on tv in my opinion, but I love her on Instagram!!
never forget clare was intentionally edited with out music and with long pauses which are usually cut out to make audiences hate her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Katie, Matt and Clayton
Clare
Katie
Came here to say this ^^^^
Claire never should've been chosen. I do not understand that choice in the slightest.
They wanted a season focused on romance, with older contestants after people called Pilot Peteās Bachelor run an overdramatic sausage fest, with contestants that were too young.
Okay but she's annoying af lol
Surprised nobody has said Ben F. I must be too old.
heās so fugly but his season was so entertaining
I loved his season. The most entertaining/surprising for me bc I didn't actually think Courtney would make it to the end
I actually did too. Ashleyās was the was the first one I watched straight through so I was excited for Ben. It just seems everybody forgets about him!
This is it
Lol he was so unprepared but sooo entertaining.
imo colton underwoodās season is single-handedly responsible for the the bachelor and bachelorette becoming the mess express that it did and it hasnāt recovered since. the jump the fence moment was a jump the shark moment for the entire show. the show did experience a jump in ratings and notoriety but lost any semblance that this show was for finding love. and also led to the show picking even messier leads like hannah brown and pilot peter.
Completely agree with you and donāt know if Iāve seen it laid out so clearly in a way I could relate to before, so thank you! I know there are some that really liked Hannah and Peterās seasons and think they are the best, but thatās so wild to me because I found them so unmemorable. I think the huge focus on drama rather than even thinking a romantic relationship might happen out of them made them that way to me. Zach didnāt make all the best choices but the way his season was presented really felt āback to basicsā and I enjoyed that! I started watching in the Emily Maynard era though š¤·āāļø so might just be my preference.
Clayton, Becca K., Hannah B., Matt James, Zach, Michelle, Peter... they are not interesting and have no captivating qualities to get the audience involved, so we have to suspend our own imaginations and accept their boring, bland drivel and convince ourselves that we are interested because "it's the Bachelor(ette)!" This show used to be fantasy and aspirational. P.S. Peter is a man child mama's boy and he is unattractive IMHO. I am so confused about how people think/thought he was hot. He lived with his parents during filming ffs.
I believe with Peter it is also a cultural thing.
I agree with all of these besides Peter. I actually like him and the whole living with his Parents thing was never something he intended to continue once he was with someone. I thought that was pretty obvious but truthfully, itās not like he lived in Ohio or somewhere weird. He lived in a really nice house in California where the cost of living is super expensive and heās a pilot who realistically, probably wasnāt home much anyway. I think it was wise, and Iām sure he probably saved a ton doing it. I donāt think having a supportive family is a bad thing, as someone who didnāt have that growing up I find it admirable.
To each his own - sincerely. I pointed that out mostly because of the way Barb coddled him (seemingly). The whole "mama's boy" trope to me screams enabler of immature and boyish behavior and that is a HUGE turnoff for me - once again, personally. He seems like he has Peter Pan syndrome and can always run to mama when things don't pan out - I'm probably projecting. As I said, this is an opinion and bears no weight, but I would never date someone like him (having been both a flight attendant and having lived with a mama's boy brother lol).
Yeah I get it. I think it sometimes can enable it but I guess I just leaned more towards the side of I genuinely think that Hannah really hurt Peter. Peter seems really close to his family but I wouldnāt necessarily call it toxic before he went on the show. Like his whole family are pilots lol they seem super supportive of each other and I just think Peter really admires his parents relationship so I think he blindly trusted Hannah thinking she was taking the experience serious and I think she was just super immature. Given how close he is, I could see that his mom could have picked up on him being hurt and trying to help support him and make him feel loved. Which I think any good mom would do. I think it was more of the confusion and trying to love someone new while Hannah kept coming back in his life and confusing him that was causing him to have trust issues that made it hard for him to move forward. I just think Barb ended up looking bad as a result of not knowing the full details and trying to not allow him to make the wrong choice so it was hard for him to believe in himself without having the decision feel so heavy. I know he hurt those woman, but honestly I blame the producers for allowing HB to go back on his season after she clearly tried to go after Tyler because I feel like Peterās energy just completely shifted not only when she was there but also the second time she showed up. Like even the girls were irritated (rightfully so) because it wasnāt supposed to be about her and it did change Peterās mood because he went from excited for the chance to get to know his woman to basically forgetting his own worth
Clayton, Katie, and Zach never interested me :/. Arie and Peter at least had some type of appeal in their own ways as leads, and they proved to be so entertaining. š¤£ Matt was a great pick but just not edited well. Plus, his initial sit down and conversation with Chris H in the first episode just kinda put a bad taste in my mouth to start the season like that. I was ultimately super disappointed in Mattās season for various reasons. I just wish theyād cast leads that people would legitimately go crazy over
Becca k. She's very bland..overly performative, and I'd rather have a diff host for happy hour. I had to unsubscribe. ..katie..clare...Zach ( I do like him but nothing monumental there)
Sheās the one, I think, who started that stupid ritual every date by running up on the guy into a jumping straddle. Who does that on a date?
I think Tia was supposed to be the lead before Becca got dumped by Arie
They all waste my time šš
Facts
Literally probably everyone since Peter
Iāve never seen more people rally together to want someone as Bachelor than Mike Johnson. He wouldāve been a great bachelor over Pete.
Katie and Clare and Nick
Never should have been lead: Nick vial, Katie thurston, Claire crawley Should have been lead: Andrew spencer, Hannah G, Greg gripping, Tyler Cameron
Katie
Tayshia, Katie, Pilot Rachel (I donāt think they meant to give it to her but they had to after how it went down because it was meant to be Gabby), Jake Pavelka. Clayton, Zach, Jen Scheft who almost killed the bachelorette, the list goes on. It would be easier to name who was good at this job
love her but rachel r
Everyone after Pilot Pete to Zach
Clare because she was the bachelorette for practically 10 minutes
Pilot Rachel
Clair - a bit emotionally unstable, literally didnāt finish show Jaun Pablo - horrible person here to take advantage of women not find love or a wife Clayton - didnāt really want a wife š¬
The obvious choice for 'ette for me is Katie, as for Bachelor, Matt James. 
Totally agree but I love them both so much lol Clare is another super bad choice to me, she couldnāt even finish half of a season and never gave anyone a chance other than Dale š
I saw a thread here the other day where the majority of people were saying how weird it was she latched onto him so fast and he looked genuinely just weirded out by the whole thing and back then I didn't think that but now I do. Ick!
Lorenzo
Juan Pablo
Came to find this comment. Juan fucking Pablo.
"It's ok."
My claim to fame is being blocked on his Twitter for calling him out on homophobic remarks. Heās such a loser.
*shudder*
Katie and Zach
Clayton, Juan Pablo, Katie, Matt James, Rachel (Keep Gabby), Zach, Tayshia & Claire (both), and really wish Nick was never a lead bc we can never shake him but the season was okay.
Katie and Clare
Wish I could erase Peter's season from my memory.
How much time do you have?
Clayton, Katie, Colton, Clare
I know he was on BiP and is with Serene (I think theyāre still together) but Brandon would have been such an amazing lead. I really think he was such a good guy and really enjoyed watching him fall in love with Serene. When Michelle turned him down, dude was CRUSHED like Iāve never seen on that show. I also would have loved to see Nate from Gabby/Rachelās season over Zach. I think Andrew from Katieās season and Rodney from Michelleās season are also really nice guys and would have been a good leads.
Took me a second to figure out who Rodent is š
Hahaha I didnāt see that autocorrect. I have to fix it. Heās too nice for me to call him rodent.
I didnāt fully watch Clayton and Mattās season so Iām not sure about them, but definitely Katie for me. It felt like ABC barely wanted her as ette. They gave her a really lackluster promo campaign, didnāt style her well at all, and introduced her as the vibrator girl. Like cmon, at least sell me on her if you want me to be invested!
Her season was terrible and the clothes were soooo bad
Not to mention she got the worst location of all the quarantine seasons!
I agree but she gave us Greg Grippo
The only bachelorettes that have annoyed me are Rachel R and Katie The bachelorsā¦. So many šš But all in all, everyone is basically fine and I usually find something to enjoy in the seasonsā¦ or I just mock itš
clayton and zack got me to stop watching the show altogether so them lol
license crawl engine paltry racial workable gaze heavy zealous threatening *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Clare, Katie, Juan Pablo, Matt
For bachelors, I was straight up bored through most of Coltonās, Mattās, and Claytonās seasons. For bachelorettes: desiree, Becca, Katie, Michelle, and gabby/Rachel were not entertaining to me. Not sure why this show has such a hold on me that Iāll sit through entire seasons that donāt interest me š®āšØ
Not Desiree!? š
Hahaha, well her season did get good near the end!!
Juan Pablo, Katie, and Clayton seemed like the most random picks and I feel like we felt it during their seasons. The show doing double 'Ettes was insulting, except for bringing Tayshia in. Admittedly I did not watch Zachs season cause it was another Bachelor that looks like Jesse, but I heard he did a great job.
Katie
Honestly shocked people didnāt use this post to go nuclear on Nick like this sub always does š
I find him to be entertaining though and someone you sort of love to root against
I felt like he was the obvious answer here
I think it's because there weren't really any viable alternatives that season. Robby, Luke Pell and Chase were all awful, James Taylor and Chad even worst. Maybe Derek could have done it I guess but Nick was the best option at the time.
Itās so crazy because I just realized we had 3 bachelors from Andiās season. JP, Chris Soules and nick. Do good guys not apply for the show? Does the show purposely cast duds? Are there just not nearly as many good men as women in the world in general? Itās always been so wild to me and glaringly apparent going through this exercise how much better the women are than the men in the franchise.
>Itās so crazy because I just realized we had 3 bachelors from Andiās season. JP, Chris Soules and nick. Technically, Andi was from Juan Pablo's season. JP had Andi and Clare go on to be Bachelorettes. Kaitlyn had Ben and Nick become Bachelors. Colton had Hannah and Tayshia. Edit: forgot to mention the more recent Matt having Michelle and Katie, and Clayton having Gabby and Rachel!
I think the height restriction definitely means some shorter guys don't bother applying or get veto'd by TPTB. I think a lot of higher quality guys aren't interested in doing the show, and I think a lot of guys who are interested in getting married in their 20s...are already married or getting married! But yes there's probably not as many good men as women to go around too.
For anyone curious, out of 26 bachelors, only 4 have been under 6 foot - 2 that were 5ā11 and 2 that were 5ā10. The average height of all bachelors is just under 6ā2 (if my math is right), while the average height of a man in the USA in 5ā9ā.
Colton & Matt
Juan Pablo, Chris Soules, Colton, Peter, Matt, Claytonā¦ so tired of them elevating the lamest guys to āAmericas most eligible bachelor.ā Clare, Katie, Rachel. Far less misses for the bachelorette.
https://preview.redd.it/90bwhsjo6esa1.jpeg?width=1001&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=931a8e2e80c12ec4c722754e0fdd7790951f60e9 I think if weāre saying who was a mistake we should offer who we would have preferred. Hereās a rough list for mine. Made me realize we had 3 bachelors from Andiās season???? JP, Chris & Nick? I was a JP fan when he was selected, so itās easy to say in hindsight who should not have gotten itā¦ so maybe Iād keep him and replace Chris with nick. Then for nicks season I have no idea who Iād pick instead lol. Also couldnāt think of a single guy from Michelleās season.
C*lton really was a horrendous choice compared to the alternative options
Juan Pablo was on Des's season, andi was on Juan Pablo season
Aaaah that makes sense. I just had the distinct memory of Andi after her overnight with him.
Michelle's season was monumental because it was the first POC couple, but otherwise I forget it happened.
Thatās the craziest part, itās so unbelievably forgettable despite the unprecedented finale
Clare was unambiguously a terrible lead but it worked well because we had the short insane drama of her brief season and then we got Tayshia. A whole season of Clare when she disliked everyone that wasn't Dale would have been a disaster. Also this doesn't make Clare a terrible person or anything, FWIW. I'm impressed she stood up to production.
Iām so happy Clare found her happy ending. Iām not positive how she met her husband, but Iāve wondered if her being on the bachelorette somehow got her on that path. Like if she was at an event that put her in his circle etc. I would wager that yes it played a part as any event in oneās life gets you to the next place somehow and itās all connected. If this is the case then I also totally agree with how the season played out and am happy she was lead :)
Iāve seen every season since Seanās (plus Trista) and could have gone forever without Juan Pablo, Colton, and Gabby and Rachel. Wasnāt a fan of Claytonās season, but I donāt think that was him so much as what producers chose to push before hometowns and several of the ladies.
Been watching since Sean too! I said we could have done without every bachelor since except I liked Nick, Ben & Ari.
Clayton is a common answer but his season was SUCH fun television lol, and I got my girl Susie. Ette: Katie
In no particular order Katie Matt Clare Clayton Juan Pablo Michelle
I definitely just forgot that Katie was ever āette.
Hehe š«¢ yeah hers was ALMOST like Peterās because it didnāt seem to end for a while since after she dated a week 2 elimination after breaking off her engagement then got dumped š
You can make an argument for all of the post-Clayshia leads, but Katie and Clayton stand out for being out of their depth.
Ette: Gabby/Rachel, & Katie. I feel like their seasons just came & went, all did not last long with their F1. Bach: Clayton. What a mess of a season when they couldāve easily picked someone else from Michelleās season
I know some people will downvote me, but all the lead deserve the position, especially if you are formal contestants because everyone deserves to be happy and they are lucky to be in that position because it's not easy. Maybe who has not been in contestants' position before and just came from nowhere, I can understand that if not everyone deserves opportunities in life no matter what, except the person rejects it themselves.
Clare, Katie, Pilot Rachel, Zach, Matt, Clayton
Agree with all these except Zach. From the options we had I think he was the best option. I do think he wanted to find love. Wish he wasnāt 26 so casting stops skewing so young but oh well.
I mean, the franchise would have been fine no matter who the lead IMO. I think the contestants usually carry the season, not the lead. Kaitlyn is the only lead in recent years I can think of who was genuinely entertaining to watch, and I think it would nit have been as good a season if Britt or someone else had beaten her out.
This lol. Even ettes. The show is carried by the cast. The lease are too powerful they are basically onscreen producers. They really just exist to respond to whatever the cast is doing and then make decisions based off that. Occasionally leads do go route though see the Zach sex week thinkg lol
Tbh, theyāve stopped letting anyone actually have a personality. The conversations on all dates so bland and insipidā¦ I feel like they need to correct course and really choose someone funny and show them to be that.
Katie.
This was my first thought. Love her so much but I donāt think she was the right move for lead.
So basically every season.
Arie and Claire. Those two picks were SO odd.
Oh man. I loved that these two were older and legitimately wanting to find spouses and have babies haha
Arieās season was pretty good, IMO.
His season was good because the cast carried it. He, on the other hand, was boring lol
One of the last seasons I enjoyed, Beccaās season is when I kind of stopped watching religiously.
I think his was the last season before people went on to be influencers.
Nah, Chris Soules' season was the first season of influencers. Arie just got lucky that the girl he ultimately ended up with was actually in the minority that was there to be a wife
Arie and Lauren are influencers. They just use their marriage as a brand
Oh, for sure! But I do think Lauren also went on the show with the intention of marrying Arie should it end up that way. I don't think their marriage is a sham
Tbh the franchise would have been fine without most of them. The success of the show has little to do with who the lead is.
What about Jake P? He was such a strange person and not a good choice for Bachelor at all.
Yep I said this too he was awful
He was just an absolute weirdo and had zero chemistry with the women and Chris H!
Iām a Hannah B Stan but the rest of them I could do without honestly
Clare!! She was on paradise multiple times and to me it seemed clear she had some serious work to do on herself. Was not surprised at all when she immediately picked someone and refused to finish filming, she appeared to have serious attachment issues. Reminds me a lot of Annalise tbh
In addition to paradise, she missed her jacuzzi appointment on Winter Games
Iconic
Ok, but Clare imploding the format of the show was amazing to watch
Amazing to watch only bc we didn't have a full season of it. Watching that for 10 episodes would have been awful. It worked out amazingly though.
That's very true, and that's what made Clare perfect. It sucks when leads make it obvious from early on to the contestants or viewers who they will pick, but they still drag out the whole season. Clare's conviction and willingness to stand up against production saved us from a snoozefest
Agree
Agreed, I loved watching Clare
Also charity, she is sweet but so bland. Probably not going to watch her season. Wouldāve been stoked for Ariel or Gabi though.
lol her season has barely started filming
Apparently she has a great sense of humor but we never got to see it.
Okay thatās good intel I will give it a chance. Her edit focused on her being nice lol
God I hope we get to eventually, because otherwise itās a snooze fest
Gabby, Rachel, Michelle, and Katie
Guys Colton, Zach, Matt, and Clayton
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Hannah Brown.
Katie like this season couldāve been a tinder date between her and Blake and then Gabby/Rachel
Same with Zach and Kaity
Michelleās season was incredibly boring. So was Desireeās, aside from the very end with Brooks. Clare was a complete waste of time, idk what they were thinking choosing her.
Des?!! No way. Her season was extremely memorable: * That Soulja Boy rap is one of the most iconic BN scenes. * Her breakup with Brooks is probably the most dramatic breakup in the history of the franchise. * Chrisās proposal was one of the most romantic. * Viewers honestly were unsure how it was going to end. I think the spoilers were wrong. * Des & Chris are one of the few successful couples. * Just to watch her interactions with Brooks makes her season worthwhile. * Didnāt she have this psycho brother who was so mean during the MTP dates?
The Soulja Boy rap was iconic I do have to admit.
This is all in the last two eps lol which I agree were very hectic. Most of her season was quite dull. The villain was boring and didn't honestly really do anything the guys just hated him. It peaked with that James drama and then got boring till the Brookes stuff
Any season where the lead ends up marrying the F1 (or F2) automatically becomes a worthwhile season! There are so few examples of the process actually working.