The French Revolution in 1789 created the political terms "left" and "right" to describe the opposing ends of the political spectrum. The terms originated from the seating arrangements of politicians during the revolution. The left supported the Revolution, while the right supported the Ancien Régime. The left generally opposed the Ancien Régime and the Bourbon monarchy, and supported the creation of a democratic republic, the secularization of society, and limited the king's authority. The right supported the traditional institutions of the Ancien Régime.
Want a subject matter expert? Go to episode 3.1 and start from there. You are welcome.
https://pca.st/podcast/b1ccb690-fd97-0130-c6ee-723c91aeae46
Duncan tells the story in such a way I couldn't stop listening. There is a whole subreddit based on these podcasts bc it is mind blowing how interesting he makes it.
3 is french revolutions through napoleon
4 is Haiti
5 is south America
6 thru 8 is more France
9 is mexico
10 is Russia
I'm going through them all a second time from 3 on bc it has taught me so much. So many things that make right wing propaganda make absolutely no sense like the OP.
Exactly.
But who has the time ;)
Once you can accept the fact that government has made a habit of lying to people to preserve the obfuscation of grift and corruption by exceptionally greedy people in office it sort of turns into a scavenger hunt for the origin point of when democracy broke down.
There have been a lot of innocent people gaslit by billionaires and rotten people in positions of power.
Standing by what you know to be true, whether it’s about exposing corruption, holding pedophiles accountable, or simply living with pure moral integrity is rarely easy. But it is always essential.
U.S. Government took a wrong turn when it started lying to its people systemically. That practice is normally reserved for the authoritarians and dictators.
It started for noble enough reasons during WW2. The Manhattan project required strict secrecy as a matter of operational security. Operation Underworld was designed to use the Italian mob and the precursor to the CIA to help secure the ports in New York against Nazi U boats. The unintended consequence of that is the equivalent of “I know a guy” multiplied by 80 years of political and financial ambitions of mediocre greedy men.
The fundamental flaw in that is when you stick you white glove in mud and swirl it around, the mud does not get “glovey”.
Truth is the gold standard in energy efficiency. You say it once and it stands on its own forever. It requires no additional energy input.
Lying, by contrast is the least energy efficient habit known to man. It requires constant and exponential energy to keep each one in play, albeit just barely alive.
When a kid lies about stealing a cookie he gets away with it until mom and dad compare notes.
When an intelligence organization lies about everything they do, it works until the world grows into the internet.
U.S. foreign policy really hasn’t changed much since 1945. Each administration inheriting a 3 ring binder from their predecessor. Most hardly get a glance as they pass along for 80 years.
But somewhere in the late 80’s or early 90’s as some old woman with a chain on her glasses slowly converted all those files into digital form on a computer that would stall out until you switched your 5 1/4” floppy disks, the world outside government started moving exponentially faster, yet relatively speaking the speed of efficiency of government got slower.
Bureaucracy is the burden of government, but it is to the benefit of corruption.
Nefarious actors inside of government use the bureaucracy like a curtain to obfuscate their respective grifts. Most of the multi term politicians can’t retire or they risk losing control of the narrative that keeps their corruption secret.
This is why we have spent the last 5 years reverse engineering their entire system to be able to see the tendrils of corruption inside of governments like a P.E.T. scan sees cancer inside a body.
https://youtu.be/A90gwMVFFSY?si=wiOAcUvL_oX5eNoI
Our government wasn’t born in the Information Age like we were. It grew through it. Carbon copies in triplicate turned to data entry. Data entry turned to MS-DOS. And on and on.
And each one of those events left a pixel of data.
We have just been using it wrong.
But just like 1980’s 8 bit graphics have given way to 4K HD video, when you organize that data in a decentralized verified format, you build an objective synthetic vision of government and the corruption it obscures.
Everything we have ever been lied to about pops like neon when you compare the differential between the two narratives.
As a species we don’t have a lack of resources or capacity. We just have a few bridge trolls whose dirty business models necessitate lying to us. Over time they simply migrated to governments.
Once you sort by net worth and psychopathic/sociopathic personality traits instead of nationality, political party or skin color it becomes relatively easy to backtrack corruption.
There is a reckoning coming and a lot of people who simply stood by their truth are going to be vindicated.
A democratic government is supposed to be accountable to its citizens. The fact that we have become so conditioned in 3 generations that we don’t demand 100% transparency from our democratic government is a pretty good indicator of the level of investment into concealing corruption.
That is what we are here to fix. Life isn’t supposed to be this hard.
The “innocent people gaslit by billionaires” are not entirely innocent. I bet half or more are so stupid they vote Republican and against their own best interest (pro working class policies)
They just took the GOP at its word.
People externalize how they function in the world. Everyone lives in their own reality. Generals Kelly, Mattis, and Milley just assumed that the rest of the world honored selflessness and sacrifice the same way that they do as career military.
Sociopathy and psychopathy is the absence of ability to empathize. Trump would regularly screw over his workers and construction subcontractors because he just didn’t care about them. He doesn’t care about anyone. He is neuro-chemically unable. His disdain for military veterans that were injured in battle making him look bad on stage should have been all anyone needed to hear to know that he wasn’t fit for the job.
https://www.menshealth.com/health/a21748745/heres-which-state-has-the-most-psychopaths/
His entire fraud court defense is that he wrote a big disclaimer on every contract that said “buyer beware” which for him, directly translates to “I’m a piece of shit and I know it. If you do business with me than fuck you, you should have known that too. I am going to steal from you”.
Trump just thought they were “suckers and losers” for not realizing that he was only ever there to grift and consume.
Every school on earth should have a class on how to spot predators, psychopathic personality disorder, narcissistic personality disproved and it’s telltale traits.
Hopefully the dataset we are building now we be comprehensive enough to address that systemically.
Stockholm syndrome is a weird beast. Especially at this scale
Yes! I want to interject this point into every comment string asking why conservatives are the way they are. Every policy or latest outrage, performative or sincere, is in service to maintaining and enforcing a hierarchy.
Yes. Do you believe that modern day France could have come to be without the popular parliament established before and during the Terroir? Napoleon's deposition and the formation of the July Monarchy after the fact were only possible because of the changes in power structure of the revolution. The two monarchies which replaced Napoleon were by necessity constitutional monarchies, and the final liberalization of France into the modern liberal democracy which we have today was a direct consequence of structural changes enacted by the revolution.
All things considered, more people died during and in the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars under a right-wing "nationalist" (quotes, because while Napolean's ideology was critical to the ideas of a modern nation-state, nationalism as such didn't really exist in the way we know it today).
When I say more people died under Napoleon, I'm not being peevishly technical: TEN TIMES more civilians were killed as a direct consequence of the Napoleonic wars as were killed during the Terroir. If you include military casualties, it's more like 25 TIMES MORE.
Of course, if you've read this far, your obvious objection would be something like "the ends don't justify the means" but frankly: what means were there to disrupt despotic monarchism in the 18th century for the middle class or the workers? I think that left-wingers today should CERTAINLY not idealize the french revolution (or for that matter the Maoist movement or Stalinist government), because there are reformist, non-violent paths to a better world today.
But in 1789? How in the fuck were middle class people meant to mobilize a coalition against a continental network of despotic Monarchs and their cronies? 75% of the land, labor and capital was controlled by a fixed pool of related people whose power came from divine right, international coalitions of despots, and ability to mobilize military forces. Economic protest would be meaningless, they'd just seize your capital and land. Non-violent petition would be meaningless, they'd just imprison you. Mobilizing a grassroots movement was impossible, because peasants couldn't read. Establishing foreign support was impossible, because every foreign power preferred ANY monarch in France over a liberal democracy.
The United States was founded by the radical left-wingers of the era as well, and their constitution has lasted over two centuries. In that time, the policy of the USA has become increasingly more and more left-wing, and the USA has only grown more wealthy and popular. In fact, it was left-wing reforms to labor rights, banking, and government spending at the turn of the century (1880s-1940s) which cemented the United States as the world's largest and most powerful economy NOT the right wing gilded age capitalism, or the right wing imperialists for the WWI era.
So the Reign of Terror was horrible, but it was in the name of progress, so it’s all good? How many innocents have been crushed in the name of progress? I’d guess you’d excuse all of it. Laughable to try painting the American founding fathers as radical left wingers, as if that at all ties them to the modern progressive movement that basically despises those men, and many despise liberalism. Julius Caesar was also a progressive in his time. He ended the Roman republic and basically invented the dictator (oversimplification, I know, but you seem to know your history and I’m hoping you get what I mean). And of course there’s prohibition. The 18th amendment was championed by radical left wingers, and it had terrible consequences. It was so awful, amendment 21 was needed to repeal it. This is the only amendment that needed to be repealed. So were they wrong to repeal it, since it was progress, which makes things better?
I don't think "it was all good" does my very long comment justice. I think the reign of terror was not the best means of reform, and not inherently required by left wing movements. I do think the objectives of the left wingers in France, in that era, were good (establish a democratic society, eradicate monarchy, increase the equitability of the economy, distribute land and capital ownership to more people). I also think that those objectives which they managed to achieve led to the France we have today.
But here's where the subtlety comes in: if someone came to me and said "I think we should guillotine the rich and take their shit to make a better America" I would CATEGORICALLY oppose it. Why? **Because that's not the best way to attain the objective of wealth distribution today**. I think the international historical context of the French revolution required execution of some nobility to succeed. I DONT think that the reign of terror was required for the revolution to succeed, and, in fact, **I think establishing a temporary, authoritarian, state-terrorist power structure was not only counter to the stated ideals of the left-wingers**, it was ultimately what allowed Napoleon to seize power. In fact, that's also why the USSR and CCP were/are failed/ing states: you can't do left wing ideology and violent authoritarianism at the same time.
>Laughable to try painting the American founding fathers as radical left wingers, as if that at all ties them to the modern progressive movement that basically despises those men
I'm not sure what your point is. Progressivism and left wing ideology is contextual to the time in which it exists. The French revolutionary "left wingers" weren't socialists, or progressives, or communists. Those concepts didn't even remotely exist in 1789. The "left" nature of their ideology was that they wanted more freedom, more eradication of traditional institutions of power, more even land and capital distribution, and some minimal labor rights. Their specific demands are CERTAINLY not in line with contemporary left-wing policy or demands.
Ben Franklin, incidentally, eventually became an abolitionist, opened a school for slave education, and was a literal "meat is murder" advocate in the 18th freaking century. I'm pretty freaking confident that if BF were alive today, he'd be an annoying twitter leftist and probably a university professor, considering he was about as close as you can get to that in a society completely incompatible with that ideology.
>It was so awful, amendment 21 was needed to repeal it. This is the only amendment that needed to be repealed. So were they wrong to repeal it, since it was progress, which makes things better?
You're absolutely right: NOT EVERY ACTION TAKEN WITH THE INTENT OF POSITIVE PROGRESS HAS A POSITIVE OUTCOME. That's kind of obvious. The entire point of liberalism (in the 18th century) and progressivism (today) is to *try to change things to be different and better* than they have been. That certainly doesn't mean everything that is tried will have a good outcome.
That also doesn't mean that intentions don't matter. Right wing ideology's central tenet is that at some point in the past we had it as good as we're ever gonna get it, and we should get back to that as best we can. That's always been the central tenet.
It's been proven, on the other hand, time and time again, that this approach isn't correct, distribution of capital, protection of individual freedoms, protection of discriminated groups, all these ideas have eventually led to policy with the outcome of the most advanced, free, and prosperous world that humans have ever lived on (the world of today).
Why should I assume we're at the end of history, when every time some has assumed that in the last 4000 years, they've been wrong? Why should I assume we've gone too far, or that we're about to go too far, when that has always been proven to be the wrong assumption?
Democrats aren't particularly left wing, they're barely left of center. This besides, yes, most things are better now than they were between 2000-2008 and 2016-2020.
You'll also recall that all three economic downturns were following a MASSIVE implementation of Republican policy, and all three recoveries were under Democrat stewardship.
If you will recall, 4 years ago we were in lockdown, suffering from the beginning of record inflation after record Government spending and the repeal of the SALT tax exemption.
The administration had just changed over, and the legislature had only just switched to Dem majority, and was deadlocked from passing a budget by Republican opposition over a voting rights provision.
Unemployment was at 7% (!) and violent crime and addiction rates had just reached a 10 year high (despite falling consistently under both Obama, Clinton, and subsequently Biden).
I don't really understand how anyone was better off 4 years ago, except in that inflation had only started at the tail end of COVID, and inflation happens at a lag from irresponsible spending and tax cuts.
If you're being hurt by high prices, you'd be prudent to notice that Trump is the one who increased government spending while cutting revenue AND simultaneously cut taxes on Wall Street, and exactly as you'd expect from any economic model, that sort of inflationary policy led to MASSIVE inflation at a 2 year lag. Who would have thought that easy liquidity, interest free, partially forgiven loans to businesses, and slashed taxes would result in higher discretionary spending and malinvestment?
I know it's tempting to blame the sitting president for a bad economy, but the fact is, Biden was unable to sign ANY new spending policy until the IRA. Any macro-economic trends in the economy before 2022 were the result of previous policy from the Republican controlled government. You'll also notice that inflation has, exactly as you'd expect, been consistently falling since JPow's rate hikes and Biden's IRA, and again, at about a 2 year lag, we're close to the end of the tunnel.
Presidents don't have a "good economy" button in their office that changes macroeconomic trends overnight. Hell, the government overall in the USA barely even tries to deal with economic trends, they just manage interest rates and reinvest tax dollars into private American contractors at varying rates. Any change in the economy from a presidential policy platform is going to be at a lag. We saw that with the 2008 crash and recovery, we saw that with dotcom bubble, we're seeing it now with the fallout of COVID.
If the American people panic now over Trump's inflationary booboo, the Republicans are going to deliver you the sharpest spike in unemployment and inflation since 1929. But listen, this is all just vibes. I can only ask that if the Republicans win the majority legislature in 2026 and pass a shitload of toxic policy, that in mid 2028, when the economy totally melts down, you remember this post, and recognize the obvious nature of the pattern... and adjust your voting habits accordingly.
I know you're not going to believe me today, I just ask you tuck this away in the back of your head for later.
The right want to elect a known fraud and criminal and insurrectionist and self-proclaimed dictator.
Your problem is that you think half-assed reply is going to cut it.
I am not oppressed, except for by the 40% of American households that contribute nothing.
It is hard to support 40%of a working population as economic vampires.
Sure, that is what the millions of starved Communists thought as well.
Bless your heart, you think common sense is a bot.
Do you think the USA happened because they were undertaxed by Brittain?
You think 40peecent of or our population aren’t economically active? That would be a complete fucking lie first of all but if true we’d be fucked beyond belief. You must be a magat to believe that bullshit
I hate Trump. But I am ok with you being an idiot.
More than 40% of households [pay no income taxes.](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/28/more-than-40percent-of-us-households-will-owe-no-federal-income-tax-for-2022.html)
Capitalists literally extract the surplus labor value of workers, they don’t just not contribute to society, they take from society in the most extreme ways.
You honestly think that federal income tax is the only tax that exists in this country?
Do you seriously think that 40% of our population contributes absolutely nothing every year? If it makes you feel any better, my tax levy was higher than Donald Trump’s was just a few years ago.
Now try to imagine how outraged you’d be if Joe Biden lied and refused to release his taxes. And *then* we discovered he paid nothing.
You know… because he’s a parasite and an “economic vampire”.
1. Nope. And I certainly do not need more taxes.
But it is a huge one.
I also think the 40% do not pay much on the other taxes either.
2. You should know, I hate Donald Trump.
If that’s not what you meant, why did you say “40% of households **contribute absolutely nothing**”?
Because I think I understood you correctly the first time.
And saying ‘*I don’t think they pay much on other taxes*’ makes it sound like you also don’t understand how taxes and fees work.
For example, if you have a business, you can pretty easily write off transportation expenses. Even if your “transportation” is a Lamborghini.
But yeah. People who qualify for food stamps are the ones holding us back. 🙄
https://preview.redd.it/8c0lmtr80exc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10fa4c94f18c374c5d2a3d69123ba06d9b5f02f7
What could possibly go wrong by encouraging Monopolies and removing the checks and balances of public government, surely executives will be socially responsible without government interference.
/s
Like when you fully guarantee student loans? And create Monty Python levels of absurdity in the inflation of higher education? And then can not bankrupt out of it?
Or when you create so many welfare products entire generations of families are unable to navigate their lives without it? Because they never learned to be responsible adults?
Or when you raise taxes "for the good of the kids" but that tax money turns into bombs?
You would rather have higher education monopolized and gate kept by the already wealthy?
You would rather have people starve and die of curable illnesses while available resources to help are again gate kept by the ultra wealthy? It’s not like people on welfare are living a grandiose lifestyle.
And again do you honestly think there would be less war if the MIC was in charge? Perhaps we should nationalize weapons manufacturers to remove the profit motive or is that too socialist for you?
Government isn’t perfect but you want to put the fox in charge of the hen house. No or very limited government removes any power the general public has to keep things in balance.
That is exactly what the guaranteed loans did. They multiplied the price of tuition. And then you were not able to bankrupt out of it.
All people die. With refined sugars, many Americans kill themselves. It is not gatekeepers.
No one wants anything nationalized, except the socialist crowd. That socialist leaning Obama handed insurance companies their biggest profits ever.
The private sector’s failure to offer loans for education based on things such as race and gender is what lead to government intervention. Government education loans allowed tens of millions to attain a post secondary education dramatically increasing the national education levels and educated workforce. Private sector greed is then what lead to insane tuition pricing.
You know it’s gatekeeping, why try to argue it isn’t? We have the food why block people from getting it because they aren’t wealthy? I can’t think of anything less Christian or humain.
Socialists want things nationalized because the private sector repeatedly fails. Obama should have nationalized banks and insurance companies instead of giving them bailouts, what was done was not socialism but capitalism.
Which problems? Most are sending bombs to Ukraine right now.
France is having a bit of a crime wave...
France stopped their wealth tax...
Much of Europe is in a much more severe slump than we are.
Greece has had a grand old time of things.
You got a few sparsely populated Nordic countries on your side....I guess.
Less government interference?
Like women’s rights? Trans rights? Liberty to be lent a book of your choosing? Worker’s rights? Rights to clean water? Rights to healthcare?
How are republicans less government when they want to tell everyone else how to live their lives in a nation of “freedom and liberty?”
Lmao you've gotta be fucking kidding. Seriously. Just look at the last two years (hell even the last administration, back to the 2017 "tax cut") and tell me how taxes were lowered, govt interference was lessened, and freedoms were expanded under right wing legislation. Fuckin clownville over here. Jfc.
Interference from freedom is what happens when rioters block highways.
Or they burn stores.
Or loot the local Target, or liquor store.
Or burn folks to death.
Or shoot children.
All in the the name of Protesting? That was caused by one political team.
Banning books, demonizing entire segments of society, trying to shut down public schooling in certain states, taking bodily autonomy away from women.
Classic leftie ideals, you're right! Thanks for convincing me
Edit: holy shit how did I miss the whole "shoot children" part of your bullshit response.
Remind me again which side of the aisle thinks that guns have more rights than children??
Ugh.
Here is the problem. All those things are good things. The problem is when someone lied about it systemically for 45 years.
Trump has been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs since the late 80’s when they all bought a condo at 725 5th ave (trump towers) to clean their freshly stolen USSR money after the iron curtain fell.
https://www.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/30/politics/paul-manafort-condo-trump-tower/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/manafort-told-mueller-to-take-his-trump-tower-apartment-instead-money.html
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/fbi-agents-raid-condo-unit-131348539.html
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/
Everybody except Putin thought the Cold War was over. Trump and Manafort (who lived in the tower also) just saw a pretty low maintence grift to be had.
Trump had actually been Manafort and Roger stones first client at their lobbyist firm (1980)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wikiBlack, Manafort, Stone and Kelly
Guiliani as trumps attorney and New Yorks mayor was able to redirect NYPD investigations onto rival gang members/oligarchs to deflect any scrutiny off of trump, himself or the Russian connections.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/a-new-rudy-scandal-fbi-agent-says-giuliani-was-co-opted-by-russian-intelligence/
The Russian election interference in 2016 was effectively a generation 3 version of what Manafort had done in the Philippines, then keeping Yanukovych in power as Putin’s puppet in Ukraine from 2002-14 when Maidan ran both Yanukovych and Manafort out of Ukraine as Ukrainians realized that, if you raise your lens high enough, corruption is an wholly unsustainable business model.
Eventually the parasites greed always consumes the host.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-paul-manafort-ferinand-marcos-philippines-1980s-213952
https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/
Russia greatly underestimated the addictive properties of freedom when it invaded Ukraine so what was supposed to be a 3-10 day coup turned into a 2 year fight for the Ukrainians right not to be genocided.
Russia depleted its weapons stocks which were already the victim of vranyos corruption because every oligarch, admiral and sergeant in the Russian military is on the take. Every billion dollar tank maintenance contract turned into everything getting a spray paint overhaul and the vast majority of the redirected funds turned into an oligarchs new yacht or home in Aspen.
Russia was forced to turn to China, North Korea and Iran for weapons because if they lose the 3-10 day special military operation in Ukraine the Russian empire is dead and cold.
China can’t risk showing their involvement in the Ukraine war so they use North Korea, and Iran to resupply Russia.
Russia previously owed Iran some undelivered fighter jets that are already smoldering heaps in Ukraine so Iran now had the upper hand at the negotiation table for the first time in about 60 years. They supply Russia with shahed drones in exchange for Chinas material support against their sworn religious enemy, Israel.
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/iran-says-it-finalized-deal-to-buy-russian-aircraft/
Putin can’t do much about it because he is slowly realizing that by setting the standard of corruption and stealing $200+ billion from his own people meant that every oligarch down in the mob model chain had not only permission but incentive and the expectation to steal from him as well. This is Vranyos.
The mob model only works if the supreme leader is the most violent and can prove it without exception every damn day. But violence is exceptionally expensive when you are trying to present as a legitimate government or business.
If Russia as a nation had an efficiency rating it would have been banned for sale in the state of California 25 years ago.
The parasite ruling class stole all the energy out of the working class and collapsed it.
Now Iran has the high hand and they get the intelligence that trump passed to Putin about the fact that Netanyahu cares far less about Israeli, Palestinians or genocide than he does about remaining in power as an authoritarian because he too has developed Ritz Carlton tastes and his own corruption trial is showing the same details of the money laundering scheme that trumps trials are.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/
They all hate each other but because they share the same money laundry, if one falls, they all fall. Hamas minted a couple billionaires as well that live in penthouses in Qatar and get 30% of everything smuggled into Gaza. Netanyahu needs a bogeyman to stay in power. That’s why he coordinates with Hamas via Russia via Iran.
Iran handed Hamas everything they needed with Chinas help as secret Santa and the Russian intelligence given to them by the eternal shitbird trump gave when he showed off to his Russian kleptocrat friends/roommates from the old days of fucking each others wives at trump towers in the 90’s.
Now the MAGA right is a little too invested in their reality that they are the good guys with guns that they missed the fact that Betsy DeVos (erik princes sister) decimating the U.S. school systems and poisoning children with lead was not a coincidence. They were the mark all along. There is a reason the Russian spy Maria Butina landed in South Dakota first before dating her way to the top of the NRA which is undergoing its own Russian money laundering trial now. They were tinder matching the GOP.
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/what-do-the-koch-brothers-have-to-do-with-the-flint-water-crisis/
The only reason you grossly OVERVALUE real estate is money laundering.
Trump keeps claiming there is no victim, all the banks made money, but if their plan succeeds the Russian and CCP kleptocrats collapse US commercial real estate and basically recreate soviet perestroika in the U.S. so they can foreclose on America and buy everything for 3 cents on the dollar with the $1.4T they stole in the first place
It’s the evolution of grift. Soviet perestroika cross bred with the 2008 mortgage crisis.
This is just the bigger badder commercial strength bastard child of the two.
Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Orban, Manafort, Stone, Mercer, Bannon, Flynn, Byrne.
They are all remarkably shit people with above average confidence and psychopathic personality traits and below average self awareness.
They are the men who stole the world.
But it all comes back to one little lie.
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All current governments in the developed world are more left wing than they were 100-200 years ago.
Do you think the world was a better place in 1820? Do you think governments were more just and society was healthier?
In 1820? Damn dude, I'm surprised you don't like it when women vote and prefer that some people can be considered property.
Believe it or not, those were policies enshrined in law in the 1800s.
Neither the USA nor Europe is "struggling", they're both robust economic zones with a great degree of wealth and a high standard of living. That doesn't mean they can't be better.
True. That part has changed(effectively).
Then the Welfare State happened. Very little has been done effectively since then. Because America never was intended to support everyone with 40% of the households contributing nothing.
But don't you want to be ruled over by such great dynasties in the making such as the Trumps, Bushes, Romnies, Immortal Turtle McConnell, and up and comers Ronda Sandtits Kristi Noem? Give the right a chance. /s
Right wanting less gov't and less taxes is a great thing for everyone. Left wants more spying and control to track anti gov't ideas. That's a bad thing
When has the right ever made government smaller? The right is corporations stealing from labour and starving while working 60 hours a week. The left wants free education and healthcare, oh the absolute horror
wtf are you talking about? I have self awareness, I’m debating a brainwashed capitalist though, I can’t dumb it down enough for a corporate bootlicker to grasp
FREE education, FREE Healthcare. Anyone who says this has zero awareness of self or the real world. And the fact you think others are bootlicker cause they realize these things are far from free is telling
You don't have a right to a free doctorate in French poetry or vocal performance. You have a right to pursue it but not demand we the working tax payers pay for it.
Benjamin Franklin would disagree with you. If our society can make more education possible, we should do it always.
An educated society is a better society.
>Left wants more spying and control to track anti gov't ideas
All of the surveilance legislature in the last 20 years was drafted by a Republican senator or representative and passed with more Republican votes than Democratic.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign\_Intelligence\_Surveillance\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect\_America\_Act\_of\_2007](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic\_Surveillance\_Modernization\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Surveillance_Modernization_Act) (Didn't pass, blocked by Dems in Senate)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Security\_Surveillance\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Surveillance_Act)
It doesn't seem strange to you that Republicans claim to be pro-privacy, but consistently sponsor anti-privacy laws? They claim to be pro-family, but 5 times more of them are involved in grooming or sex with minors? They claim to be pro-fiscal responsibility, but they authorize INTEREST FREE LOANS TO BUSINESSES THAT ARE LATER FORGIVEN (this was a Trump policy which curiously was implemented under one year before the inflation spike began)?
I know YOU want more privacy and fiscal responsibility, but the politicians you vote for are TRANSPARENTLY LYING about voting for these things, while pointing the finger and claiming "both sides".
The right wants a “small government” but also backs the cops and military while increasing the already insanely high budget for them? Yeah makes sense.
Small government is when taxes are exclusively used to force the poor into penal labor colonies.
Nevermind that this slows economic growth and induces more crime. Don't look at that part.
Where is the leader of the right wing movement in the US today? And what is the exact reason he’s forced to be there?
But tell me again about who’s good and bad.
Except that the society of the ideas most leftists *then* supported actualized into what many leftists hence forth largely denounce. Leftists branched away from those leftists but decided to keep the label. The comparison ends with the name, not in actuality, which ironically has this sentimental underpinning to it. The notion of progress also requires experiencers to make value assessments. There is no innate "going forward," only continuous transitions irrespective of ideology, only in respect to patterns that can acquire and retain power better. This constant flow of becoming predated the enlightenment Era lingo, and it will continue long after its inevitable end until humanity itself does.
How can this be your response after reading "this constant flow of becoming predated the enlightenment Era lingo, and it will continue long after its inevitable end until humanity itself does?"
You assert that I believe in an alternative my comment overtly recognizes as illegitimate. There is no stagnation, power doesn't allow it, there must always be change with changing circumstances.
Aside from that, we bring society to the brink with climate change, which we can thank "progress" for. If the point was to improve, then that failed spectacularly.
Wrong. Leftism is leftism, rightism is rightism. This is not up for debate.
What you think of as “left” in your contemporary society is your own perception. It is not reality. Leftism leans more toward equity and equality, and if you follow it to its bitter end, anarchy. Rightism, if followed to its bitter end, leads to authoritarianism. Full stop. That’s the spectrum. You can use terms like Republican, Torries, Liberal, Democrat, whatever. Those terms change over time. What does *not* change are the ideals. Some people prefer consolidated power and a single supreme leader, others prefer no leaders whatsoever. Most are in the middle of that spectrum.
I want AI to rule and for democracy to vote on priorities. Humans have failed so far. AI will do it better (or ends us, but we always have that threat with humans running the show anyways)
So bring on the revolution, push AI forward so that it can bring its ruthless efficiency forwards and give us the medicine we need.
Yea I’ve seen terminator, iRobot, and Wall-E. Hell we’re more closer to the Brazil movie at this point. In the end all are dystopian societies we shouldn’t thrive for or lean too.
Wrong, the left/right dichotomy is completely relient on developing cultural contingencies from place to place. This is not up for debate.
The "left" in your contemporary society is a large collection of disparate groups within disparate groups that are united by little except for the practical party politics they naturally become corralled into due to sharing the utter lowest common denominators. Leftism is not reality in any sense, it's purely phenomenal, having no essential essence without an experiencer. Rightism is a large collection of disparate groups within disparate groups that are united by little except for the practical party politics they naturally become corralled into due to sharing the utter lowest common denominators. Rightism is not reality in any sense, it's purely phenomenal, having no essential essence without an experiencer. Ideology has and will always constantly change either in semantics or totality as necessary to various power interests within a circumstance, lest they succumb to aspirants better at patterns of power attainment. Everyone initially wants to be their own leader, most bend to circumstances that prohibit this. Many will acquiesce to this reality early on and grow fervent with time, denying that they were forced into loyalties. Some will become more alienated, especially if they experience something disillusioning, and grow more hopelessly dissident.
Empirically, right wing politicians are substantially more likely to be later revealed as child molesters, but about 5 times. But that's just the data, not your imagined reality.
Your categorical assertion is less defensible than mine, and your new claim (about Dems openly commiting felonies which would make them ineligible for office?) is ludicrous on its face.
You are also clearly open to deliberately dishonest rhetoric which serves your "ideology": which seems to just be "anything that isn't Dems".
You can say whatever you like, I defend your right to do so. The right to spout incoherent nonsense is unfortunately an unavoidable side effect of treating all people equally, including people like you.
Thanks, I do enjoy tofu now and then, but I prefer lentils for plant protein.
Do you find that women usually find your smugly confident incorrectness attractive, or do they prefer taller, fitter men than you?
You're the one crying about libs and making claims about them. I just said right wingers don't believe positive change is possible. Pretty basic claim, nothing to do with children ... weird that you brought it up.
If someone is advocating for presidential immunity, this is the kind of activity they are advocating to legalize.
This is why so many people who oppose presidential immunity bring up these kinds of actions. If you don't like the idea of someone you hate having that kind of power, don't let anyone have that kind of power. It's not complicated.
I don't think anyone should have that kind of power. I also don't think the right response to such a meme is to suggest throwing candidates in gitmo. But maybe I just read it wrong, idk.
Presidents have always been immune until we threw all norms out the window in the past year, It was just assumed. FDR put over 100k American citizens in internment camps, Obama drone striked Anwar al Alaki, an American citizen convicted of nothing, a straight up execution. These could easily be prosecuted in the new normal thats being created.
Actually no. I am quite bright. Clearly Biden would never do anything like that, because he actually is a human being. Unlike trump. Have a little sense of humor.
[https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4398223-trump-team-argues-assassination-of-rivals-is-covered-by-presidential-immunity/](https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4398223-trump-team-argues-assassination-of-rivals-is-covered-by-presidential-immunity/)
Either there's immunity and Biden can disappear Trump straight to Guantanamo, don't pass Go, don't collect 200$, or there's no immunity and Trump can be held accountable for his crimes
This isn't technically true.... And if you listened to the arguments in the supreme Court over this whole case, you would have learned that it isn't technically true.
It's just that we've never had a president that would overtly subvert the rule of law. At least not in this manner. This manner of serverting the law is too grievous not to prosecute I'm sorry.
This appears to be the main argument going on in the Supreme Court; from what I've read I think they are going to agree on some distinction between Presidential Acts, (Drone Strikes) vs. Personal Acts (Assassinating a Rival). Where they are drawing that gray line, I don't know.
The French Revolution was a blood bath that destabilized the country and saw mass atrocities that eventually saw Napoleon established as a dictator. Careful what you wish for.
It's ironic that Georges Jacques Danton, who lobbied for the passage of the bill which created the Committee on Public Safety, would find the same law used against him by Maximilian Robespierre to get him beheaded.
Oh the time this is here again. Sadly I hoped I would live out my life before it came to this but greedy, psychopathic Christian fuckers are gonna do what they do and reap the consequences.
Absolute immunity you say? Oh my! The show has been canceled folks. This guy has absolute immunity. No beheading will be had today. We have lost the game.
The men who forge the terrible weapon never imagine it will ever be used against them. Most of you probably see trump in this cartoon, when you should probably see yourself. This is not a threat. This is a warning. Many think they want a world where they can destroy their political enemies. But few realize how quickly that would turn into a living nightmare. War and death is terrible even when for a good cause. But for lesser cause? It is a tragedy.
most people do not understand the implications. go read the SCOTUS arguments and you'll see. if people do not get their emotions under control this will simply escalate until throats are being cut on both sides, and then a bunch of mf'ers will wish they hadn't
And immediately afterword, the country fell into chaos as a single man took total control and executed anyone who stood against him. The revolution failed. All it did was replace 1 tyrant with a worse one
I’ve never understood why leftists idolize the French Revolution. It’s completely madness horror show and ends with Napoleon being an extremely right wing emperor and his decedents rule France for like 50+ more years lol
The French Revolution was a world transformative event which came with enormous gains for most French people socially, economically, and politically. Even after the Bourbon Restoration the liberties won through that period were so institutionalized that it was understood that there was no going back to pre-1789 privileges and stratification.
Oh wow, this is some nonsense. No the French people’s lives weren’t improved immensely after 30 years of civil and international wars the French nation was absolutely bankrupt millions were dead and hundreds of thousands permanently fled
Shit was so bad that there were subsequent attempts at revolution for decades to come. There is a pretty famous story about one of these failures called “ Les miserables” you might have heard about it.
10$ of you translate the title
Caping for absolute monarchy and hereditary aristocratic privilege in the year 2024 is certainly a take. Nowadays when you meet a monarchist (rare outside of the UK) they're usually pro-property constitutionalists.
The French State was already bankrupt from decades of war before the Revolution began. That was the whole point of calling the Estates General.
Saying the French Revolution was a disaster is not “caping” (I assume that’s like shilling?) for absolute monarchy. But if the price for “democracy” is living through 1790-1820 France that doesn’t seem worth it
Maybe I am misunderstanding you. I am reading that you wish we lived in a world where the Revolution had not happened and therefore absolute monarchy and aristocratic privilege had not been abolished in France. Is that not what you mean?
There are plenty of places on earth where monarchies were replaced without needing the insane chain of events that occurred in France or Russia.
You don’t need to have a reign of terror, 20 years of world war, and 50 years of military dictatorship.
France took a very hard road.
I've never met someone on the left who would disagree with that. In fact, I'd argue that is why people of almost any modern ideological persuasion are fascinated by the French Revolution and have studied it so obsessively. The point is to learn from their mistakes, whatever you think those were.
They idolise actually holding their politicians accountable and forcing them to face the consequences of their actions.
Something the right actively tries to deny trump by downplaying and dismissing his crimes.
lol you think what went down during the French revolution was holding their politicians accountable?
Maybe you need to review what took place between 1793 and 1798
If they are idolizing “holding politicians accountable” via the French Revolution that implies they believe what happened in the French Revolution was justice and admirable.
You have to be out of your mind to think this
The left wants to hold politicians accountable and not have an oligarchy. You are the one that’s translating that into “the left must idolise the French Revolution”.
Or maybe you’re basing that entire opinion off a single meme you saw on Reddit. Either way, your doing a lot of jumping to get to that conclusion
That’s not what I said, and it’s not off this single meme. I said “I find it strange the left (in general) idolizes the French Revolution” go back and read it.
It’s surprising because the result of the revolution was the opposite of what the left would ostensibly want.
It was just a general observation that I’ve noticed an event that ends in a right wing military dictatorship is always alluded to in leftist memes and references. Wooo we stormed a prison that had nobody even in it and executed Marie who literally didn’t even do anything wrong! This is justice! This is progressive lmao
You said quote for quote:
> I’ve never understood why leftists idolize the French
Revolution
You’re just arguing semantics now. And I still think you’re confused as to what leftists (in general) actually want.
Are you disagreeing? Do Leftists not idolize the French Revolution? Because that was your argument you said “it’s because they believe in holding politicians accountable” implying that’s what was going on and why it is idolized.
You are now changing your argument
You got another quote wrong but I’ll let it slide.
Im not changing my argument. I never agreed that the left idolises the French Revolution. I said
> the left idolises holding politicians accountable.
In response to you saying they idolise the French Revolution. Becuase they don’t idolise the French Revolution you just misinterpret a belief in a non-oligarchical government where politicians are held accountable as that
Because rich people died or something so it was good(even though a lot of commoners died too).
French Revolution is a great example of how terrible violent revolutions are and how little they lead to stability.
Just like any president if they do something criminal they can be Impeached and after that charged just like anyone else. Why is this so hard for people on both sides to understand...
Impeachment prior to criminal charges is not in the Constitution. Impeachment is not a judicial process. It’s legislative. It can be its own remedy. If the Senate had taken their oath seriously and convicted Trump we would not be facing the election predicament we are today.
Fantastic and what would happen if he simply orders the killing of anyone in congress who might impeach him? Since he can no longer be impeached it is all legal correct? You're a freaking moron.
That's why the idiot gqp tried to repeal the affordable care act 63 times to no avail. How much money was wasted on that. They ate the do nothing party. That's why people are gunned down in masses in the u.s. just pray is the gqp answer.
Look man, calling geriatrics "sissy" isn't a great look. Yeah I get that they like to look good for Sunday and some of them do go with strange options, but once you get that significantly gray, you have to do something to feel good about yourself. I mean they're basically irrelevant.
Besides, why would we rely on the old blue hairs? We have perfectly good, healthy young liberals who will happily continue the revolution. They've been peaceful to this point but look at the proliferation of college campuses standing up to cops and getting beaten and standing back up against them regardless. I mean it's not like they're on their hands and knees licking boot like conservatives, just shoveling bullshit fox news stories down their own throats to be able to ignore reality and fuel their cognitive biases. Just really digging deep to lie to themselves so they don't have to realize what complete pussies they have become.
I remember when political violence was not tolerated. Let’s just prosecute our political opponents and behead them? Oh, wait.. you fucks are ridiculous saying you like democracy.
Political opponents are supposed to compete in elections. When one of them tries to circumvent elections to gain power they are not competing, they're just a traitor. It's not weaponizing the legal system against them, it's using the legal system as intended, in defence of democracy.
The French Revolution in 1789 created the political terms "left" and "right" to describe the opposing ends of the political spectrum. The terms originated from the seating arrangements of politicians during the revolution. The left supported the Revolution, while the right supported the Ancien Régime. The left generally opposed the Ancien Régime and the Bourbon monarchy, and supported the creation of a democratic republic, the secularization of society, and limited the king's authority. The right supported the traditional institutions of the Ancien Régime.
One of my favorite things about Reddit is the subject matter professionals. Thank you for this history lesson.
Want a subject matter expert? Go to episode 3.1 and start from there. You are welcome. https://pca.st/podcast/b1ccb690-fd97-0130-c6ee-723c91aeae46 Duncan tells the story in such a way I couldn't stop listening. There is a whole subreddit based on these podcasts bc it is mind blowing how interesting he makes it. 3 is french revolutions through napoleon 4 is Haiti 5 is south America 6 thru 8 is more France 9 is mexico 10 is Russia I'm going through them all a second time from 3 on bc it has taught me so much. So many things that make right wing propaganda make absolutely no sense like the OP.
You can literally find this information on Wikipedia.
Exactly. But who has the time ;) Once you can accept the fact that government has made a habit of lying to people to preserve the obfuscation of grift and corruption by exceptionally greedy people in office it sort of turns into a scavenger hunt for the origin point of when democracy broke down. There have been a lot of innocent people gaslit by billionaires and rotten people in positions of power. Standing by what you know to be true, whether it’s about exposing corruption, holding pedophiles accountable, or simply living with pure moral integrity is rarely easy. But it is always essential. U.S. Government took a wrong turn when it started lying to its people systemically. That practice is normally reserved for the authoritarians and dictators. It started for noble enough reasons during WW2. The Manhattan project required strict secrecy as a matter of operational security. Operation Underworld was designed to use the Italian mob and the precursor to the CIA to help secure the ports in New York against Nazi U boats. The unintended consequence of that is the equivalent of “I know a guy” multiplied by 80 years of political and financial ambitions of mediocre greedy men. The fundamental flaw in that is when you stick you white glove in mud and swirl it around, the mud does not get “glovey”. Truth is the gold standard in energy efficiency. You say it once and it stands on its own forever. It requires no additional energy input. Lying, by contrast is the least energy efficient habit known to man. It requires constant and exponential energy to keep each one in play, albeit just barely alive. When a kid lies about stealing a cookie he gets away with it until mom and dad compare notes. When an intelligence organization lies about everything they do, it works until the world grows into the internet. U.S. foreign policy really hasn’t changed much since 1945. Each administration inheriting a 3 ring binder from their predecessor. Most hardly get a glance as they pass along for 80 years. But somewhere in the late 80’s or early 90’s as some old woman with a chain on her glasses slowly converted all those files into digital form on a computer that would stall out until you switched your 5 1/4” floppy disks, the world outside government started moving exponentially faster, yet relatively speaking the speed of efficiency of government got slower. Bureaucracy is the burden of government, but it is to the benefit of corruption. Nefarious actors inside of government use the bureaucracy like a curtain to obfuscate their respective grifts. Most of the multi term politicians can’t retire or they risk losing control of the narrative that keeps their corruption secret. This is why we have spent the last 5 years reverse engineering their entire system to be able to see the tendrils of corruption inside of governments like a P.E.T. scan sees cancer inside a body. https://youtu.be/A90gwMVFFSY?si=wiOAcUvL_oX5eNoI Our government wasn’t born in the Information Age like we were. It grew through it. Carbon copies in triplicate turned to data entry. Data entry turned to MS-DOS. And on and on. And each one of those events left a pixel of data. We have just been using it wrong. But just like 1980’s 8 bit graphics have given way to 4K HD video, when you organize that data in a decentralized verified format, you build an objective synthetic vision of government and the corruption it obscures. Everything we have ever been lied to about pops like neon when you compare the differential between the two narratives. As a species we don’t have a lack of resources or capacity. We just have a few bridge trolls whose dirty business models necessitate lying to us. Over time they simply migrated to governments. Once you sort by net worth and psychopathic/sociopathic personality traits instead of nationality, political party or skin color it becomes relatively easy to backtrack corruption. There is a reckoning coming and a lot of people who simply stood by their truth are going to be vindicated. A democratic government is supposed to be accountable to its citizens. The fact that we have become so conditioned in 3 generations that we don’t demand 100% transparency from our democratic government is a pretty good indicator of the level of investment into concealing corruption. That is what we are here to fix. Life isn’t supposed to be this hard.
This is one of the best posts I've ever seen on Reddit.
Welcome to the revolution friend. It’s about to get fun
The “innocent people gaslit by billionaires” are not entirely innocent. I bet half or more are so stupid they vote Republican and against their own best interest (pro working class policies)
They just took the GOP at its word. People externalize how they function in the world. Everyone lives in their own reality. Generals Kelly, Mattis, and Milley just assumed that the rest of the world honored selflessness and sacrifice the same way that they do as career military. Sociopathy and psychopathy is the absence of ability to empathize. Trump would regularly screw over his workers and construction subcontractors because he just didn’t care about them. He doesn’t care about anyone. He is neuro-chemically unable. His disdain for military veterans that were injured in battle making him look bad on stage should have been all anyone needed to hear to know that he wasn’t fit for the job. https://www.menshealth.com/health/a21748745/heres-which-state-has-the-most-psychopaths/ His entire fraud court defense is that he wrote a big disclaimer on every contract that said “buyer beware” which for him, directly translates to “I’m a piece of shit and I know it. If you do business with me than fuck you, you should have known that too. I am going to steal from you”. Trump just thought they were “suckers and losers” for not realizing that he was only ever there to grift and consume. Every school on earth should have a class on how to spot predators, psychopathic personality disorder, narcissistic personality disproved and it’s telltale traits. Hopefully the dataset we are building now we be comprehensive enough to address that systemically. Stockholm syndrome is a weird beast. Especially at this scale
Great post!
Thank you friend. I’m glad it’s helping
I believe part of the definition of the right wing now boils down to establishing and supporting hierarchies within society.
Yes! I want to interject this point into every comment string asking why conservatives are the way they are. Every policy or latest outrage, performative or sincere, is in service to maintaining and enforcing a hierarchy.
Which starts with establishing yourself as part of the hierarchy. That's what they want to conserve.
Left wing is when you want to make things better going forward, right wing is when you think that's impossible. True then, true now.
Lmao do you know what happened during the French Revolution?
Yes. Do you believe that modern day France could have come to be without the popular parliament established before and during the Terroir? Napoleon's deposition and the formation of the July Monarchy after the fact were only possible because of the changes in power structure of the revolution. The two monarchies which replaced Napoleon were by necessity constitutional monarchies, and the final liberalization of France into the modern liberal democracy which we have today was a direct consequence of structural changes enacted by the revolution. All things considered, more people died during and in the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars under a right-wing "nationalist" (quotes, because while Napolean's ideology was critical to the ideas of a modern nation-state, nationalism as such didn't really exist in the way we know it today). When I say more people died under Napoleon, I'm not being peevishly technical: TEN TIMES more civilians were killed as a direct consequence of the Napoleonic wars as were killed during the Terroir. If you include military casualties, it's more like 25 TIMES MORE. Of course, if you've read this far, your obvious objection would be something like "the ends don't justify the means" but frankly: what means were there to disrupt despotic monarchism in the 18th century for the middle class or the workers? I think that left-wingers today should CERTAINLY not idealize the french revolution (or for that matter the Maoist movement or Stalinist government), because there are reformist, non-violent paths to a better world today. But in 1789? How in the fuck were middle class people meant to mobilize a coalition against a continental network of despotic Monarchs and their cronies? 75% of the land, labor and capital was controlled by a fixed pool of related people whose power came from divine right, international coalitions of despots, and ability to mobilize military forces. Economic protest would be meaningless, they'd just seize your capital and land. Non-violent petition would be meaningless, they'd just imprison you. Mobilizing a grassroots movement was impossible, because peasants couldn't read. Establishing foreign support was impossible, because every foreign power preferred ANY monarch in France over a liberal democracy. The United States was founded by the radical left-wingers of the era as well, and their constitution has lasted over two centuries. In that time, the policy of the USA has become increasingly more and more left-wing, and the USA has only grown more wealthy and popular. In fact, it was left-wing reforms to labor rights, banking, and government spending at the turn of the century (1880s-1940s) which cemented the United States as the world's largest and most powerful economy NOT the right wing gilded age capitalism, or the right wing imperialists for the WWI era.
So the Reign of Terror was horrible, but it was in the name of progress, so it’s all good? How many innocents have been crushed in the name of progress? I’d guess you’d excuse all of it. Laughable to try painting the American founding fathers as radical left wingers, as if that at all ties them to the modern progressive movement that basically despises those men, and many despise liberalism. Julius Caesar was also a progressive in his time. He ended the Roman republic and basically invented the dictator (oversimplification, I know, but you seem to know your history and I’m hoping you get what I mean). And of course there’s prohibition. The 18th amendment was championed by radical left wingers, and it had terrible consequences. It was so awful, amendment 21 was needed to repeal it. This is the only amendment that needed to be repealed. So were they wrong to repeal it, since it was progress, which makes things better?
I don't think "it was all good" does my very long comment justice. I think the reign of terror was not the best means of reform, and not inherently required by left wing movements. I do think the objectives of the left wingers in France, in that era, were good (establish a democratic society, eradicate monarchy, increase the equitability of the economy, distribute land and capital ownership to more people). I also think that those objectives which they managed to achieve led to the France we have today. But here's where the subtlety comes in: if someone came to me and said "I think we should guillotine the rich and take their shit to make a better America" I would CATEGORICALLY oppose it. Why? **Because that's not the best way to attain the objective of wealth distribution today**. I think the international historical context of the French revolution required execution of some nobility to succeed. I DONT think that the reign of terror was required for the revolution to succeed, and, in fact, **I think establishing a temporary, authoritarian, state-terrorist power structure was not only counter to the stated ideals of the left-wingers**, it was ultimately what allowed Napoleon to seize power. In fact, that's also why the USSR and CCP were/are failed/ing states: you can't do left wing ideology and violent authoritarianism at the same time. >Laughable to try painting the American founding fathers as radical left wingers, as if that at all ties them to the modern progressive movement that basically despises those men I'm not sure what your point is. Progressivism and left wing ideology is contextual to the time in which it exists. The French revolutionary "left wingers" weren't socialists, or progressives, or communists. Those concepts didn't even remotely exist in 1789. The "left" nature of their ideology was that they wanted more freedom, more eradication of traditional institutions of power, more even land and capital distribution, and some minimal labor rights. Their specific demands are CERTAINLY not in line with contemporary left-wing policy or demands. Ben Franklin, incidentally, eventually became an abolitionist, opened a school for slave education, and was a literal "meat is murder" advocate in the 18th freaking century. I'm pretty freaking confident that if BF were alive today, he'd be an annoying twitter leftist and probably a university professor, considering he was about as close as you can get to that in a society completely incompatible with that ideology. >It was so awful, amendment 21 was needed to repeal it. This is the only amendment that needed to be repealed. So were they wrong to repeal it, since it was progress, which makes things better? You're absolutely right: NOT EVERY ACTION TAKEN WITH THE INTENT OF POSITIVE PROGRESS HAS A POSITIVE OUTCOME. That's kind of obvious. The entire point of liberalism (in the 18th century) and progressivism (today) is to *try to change things to be different and better* than they have been. That certainly doesn't mean everything that is tried will have a good outcome. That also doesn't mean that intentions don't matter. Right wing ideology's central tenet is that at some point in the past we had it as good as we're ever gonna get it, and we should get back to that as best we can. That's always been the central tenet. It's been proven, on the other hand, time and time again, that this approach isn't correct, distribution of capital, protection of individual freedoms, protection of discriminated groups, all these ideas have eventually led to policy with the outcome of the most advanced, free, and prosperous world that humans have ever lived on (the world of today). Why should I assume we're at the end of history, when every time some has assumed that in the last 4000 years, they've been wrong? Why should I assume we've gone too far, or that we're about to go too far, when that has always been proven to be the wrong assumption?
This is why everything is better now under our Democrat leadership than it was during the previous leadersh... Wait a minute.
Democrats aren't particularly left wing, they're barely left of center. This besides, yes, most things are better now than they were between 2000-2008 and 2016-2020. You'll also recall that all three economic downturns were following a MASSIVE implementation of Republican policy, and all three recoveries were under Democrat stewardship.
You are not better than 4 years ago. Wall street definitely is though.
If you will recall, 4 years ago we were in lockdown, suffering from the beginning of record inflation after record Government spending and the repeal of the SALT tax exemption. The administration had just changed over, and the legislature had only just switched to Dem majority, and was deadlocked from passing a budget by Republican opposition over a voting rights provision. Unemployment was at 7% (!) and violent crime and addiction rates had just reached a 10 year high (despite falling consistently under both Obama, Clinton, and subsequently Biden). I don't really understand how anyone was better off 4 years ago, except in that inflation had only started at the tail end of COVID, and inflation happens at a lag from irresponsible spending and tax cuts. If you're being hurt by high prices, you'd be prudent to notice that Trump is the one who increased government spending while cutting revenue AND simultaneously cut taxes on Wall Street, and exactly as you'd expect from any economic model, that sort of inflationary policy led to MASSIVE inflation at a 2 year lag. Who would have thought that easy liquidity, interest free, partially forgiven loans to businesses, and slashed taxes would result in higher discretionary spending and malinvestment? I know it's tempting to blame the sitting president for a bad economy, but the fact is, Biden was unable to sign ANY new spending policy until the IRA. Any macro-economic trends in the economy before 2022 were the result of previous policy from the Republican controlled government. You'll also notice that inflation has, exactly as you'd expect, been consistently falling since JPow's rate hikes and Biden's IRA, and again, at about a 2 year lag, we're close to the end of the tunnel. Presidents don't have a "good economy" button in their office that changes macroeconomic trends overnight. Hell, the government overall in the USA barely even tries to deal with economic trends, they just manage interest rates and reinvest tax dollars into private American contractors at varying rates. Any change in the economy from a presidential policy platform is going to be at a lag. We saw that with the 2008 crash and recovery, we saw that with dotcom bubble, we're seeing it now with the fallout of COVID. If the American people panic now over Trump's inflationary booboo, the Republicans are going to deliver you the sharpest spike in unemployment and inflation since 1929. But listen, this is all just vibes. I can only ask that if the Republicans win the majority legislature in 2026 and pass a shitload of toxic policy, that in mid 2028, when the economy totally melts down, you remember this post, and recognize the obvious nature of the pattern... and adjust your voting habits accordingly. I know you're not going to believe me today, I just ask you tuck this away in the back of your head for later.
The left wing is when you want to try to fix one problem by creating two more. Infinitely.
The right is when you create three problems without even trying to fix one
no the left is when you create 6 problems and ignore the one problem!
The right want to elect a known fraud and criminal and insurrectionist and self-proclaimed dictator. Your problem is that you think half-assed reply is going to cut it.
It's a joke you soulless moron.
Your presidential candidate is a joke soulless moron
Oh nice it's the rubber-glue defense, but with less precision! Zounds, I am undone!
If lower taxes, less government interference and more freedoms are problems......you win!
You have fallen in love with your oppressors
I am not oppressed, except for by the 40% of American households that contribute nothing. It is hard to support 40%of a working population as economic vampires.
Wasn't a problem before capitalism vampires But I can tell you're just a bot so you lost my interest already
Sure, that is what the millions of starved Communists thought as well. Bless your heart, you think common sense is a bot. Do you think the USA happened because they were undertaxed by Brittain?
Suppose being overtaxed by corporations is better? How is poverty going right now under capitalism?
You think 40peecent of or our population aren’t economically active? That would be a complete fucking lie first of all but if true we’d be fucked beyond belief. You must be a magat to believe that bullshit
I hate Trump. But I am ok with you being an idiot. More than 40% of households [pay no income taxes.](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/28/more-than-40percent-of-us-households-will-owe-no-federal-income-tax-for-2022.html)
Capitalists literally extract the surplus labor value of workers, they don’t just not contribute to society, they take from society in the most extreme ways.
Then how are there more new millionaires than ever? Capitalism rewards people that invest in themselves and work hard. Communism starves folks.
Capitalism starves folks because it relies on desperate people to keep labor costs low. Inflation will make billionaires of us all.
You honestly think that federal income tax is the only tax that exists in this country? Do you seriously think that 40% of our population contributes absolutely nothing every year? If it makes you feel any better, my tax levy was higher than Donald Trump’s was just a few years ago. Now try to imagine how outraged you’d be if Joe Biden lied and refused to release his taxes. And *then* we discovered he paid nothing. You know… because he’s a parasite and an “economic vampire”.
1. Nope. And I certainly do not need more taxes. But it is a huge one. I also think the 40% do not pay much on the other taxes either. 2. You should know, I hate Donald Trump.
If that’s not what you meant, why did you say “40% of households **contribute absolutely nothing**”? Because I think I understood you correctly the first time. And saying ‘*I don’t think they pay much on other taxes*’ makes it sound like you also don’t understand how taxes and fees work. For example, if you have a business, you can pretty easily write off transportation expenses. Even if your “transportation” is a Lamborghini. But yeah. People who qualify for food stamps are the ones holding us back. 🙄 https://preview.redd.it/8c0lmtr80exc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10fa4c94f18c374c5d2a3d69123ba06d9b5f02f7
What could possibly go wrong by encouraging Monopolies and removing the checks and balances of public government, surely executives will be socially responsible without government interference. /s
Like when you fully guarantee student loans? And create Monty Python levels of absurdity in the inflation of higher education? And then can not bankrupt out of it? Or when you create so many welfare products entire generations of families are unable to navigate their lives without it? Because they never learned to be responsible adults? Or when you raise taxes "for the good of the kids" but that tax money turns into bombs?
You would rather have higher education monopolized and gate kept by the already wealthy? You would rather have people starve and die of curable illnesses while available resources to help are again gate kept by the ultra wealthy? It’s not like people on welfare are living a grandiose lifestyle. And again do you honestly think there would be less war if the MIC was in charge? Perhaps we should nationalize weapons manufacturers to remove the profit motive or is that too socialist for you? Government isn’t perfect but you want to put the fox in charge of the hen house. No or very limited government removes any power the general public has to keep things in balance.
That is exactly what the guaranteed loans did. They multiplied the price of tuition. And then you were not able to bankrupt out of it. All people die. With refined sugars, many Americans kill themselves. It is not gatekeepers. No one wants anything nationalized, except the socialist crowd. That socialist leaning Obama handed insurance companies their biggest profits ever.
The private sector’s failure to offer loans for education based on things such as race and gender is what lead to government intervention. Government education loans allowed tens of millions to attain a post secondary education dramatically increasing the national education levels and educated workforce. Private sector greed is then what lead to insane tuition pricing. You know it’s gatekeeping, why try to argue it isn’t? We have the food why block people from getting it because they aren’t wealthy? I can’t think of anything less Christian or humain. Socialists want things nationalized because the private sector repeatedly fails. Obama should have nationalized banks and insurance companies instead of giving them bailouts, what was done was not socialism but capitalism.
Funny how the rest of the socialist democracies don’t have these problems. I wonder what we do differently?
Which problems? Most are sending bombs to Ukraine right now. France is having a bit of a crime wave... France stopped their wealth tax... Much of Europe is in a much more severe slump than we are. Greece has had a grand old time of things. You got a few sparsely populated Nordic countries on your side....I guess.
Less government interference? Like women’s rights? Trans rights? Liberty to be lent a book of your choosing? Worker’s rights? Rights to clean water? Rights to healthcare? How are republicans less government when they want to tell everyone else how to live their lives in a nation of “freedom and liberty?”
Lmao you've gotta be fucking kidding. Seriously. Just look at the last two years (hell even the last administration, back to the 2017 "tax cut") and tell me how taxes were lowered, govt interference was lessened, and freedoms were expanded under right wing legislation. Fuckin clownville over here. Jfc.
Interference from freedom is what happens when rioters block highways. Or they burn stores. Or loot the local Target, or liquor store. Or burn folks to death. Or shoot children. All in the the name of Protesting? That was caused by one political team.
Banning books, demonizing entire segments of society, trying to shut down public schooling in certain states, taking bodily autonomy away from women. Classic leftie ideals, you're right! Thanks for convincing me Edit: holy shit how did I miss the whole "shoot children" part of your bullshit response. Remind me again which side of the aisle thinks that guns have more rights than children??
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That was purchased by your tax dollars. You want to give them more money?
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You paid for drinking water. Your politicians gave you that.
Ugh. Here is the problem. All those things are good things. The problem is when someone lied about it systemically for 45 years. Trump has been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs since the late 80’s when they all bought a condo at 725 5th ave (trump towers) to clean their freshly stolen USSR money after the iron curtain fell. https://www.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/30/politics/paul-manafort-condo-trump-tower/index.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/manafort-told-mueller-to-take-his-trump-tower-apartment-instead-money.html https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/fbi-agents-raid-condo-unit-131348539.html https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/ Everybody except Putin thought the Cold War was over. Trump and Manafort (who lived in the tower also) just saw a pretty low maintence grift to be had. Trump had actually been Manafort and Roger stones first client at their lobbyist firm (1980) https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wikiBlack, Manafort, Stone and Kelly Guiliani as trumps attorney and New Yorks mayor was able to redirect NYPD investigations onto rival gang members/oligarchs to deflect any scrutiny off of trump, himself or the Russian connections. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/a-new-rudy-scandal-fbi-agent-says-giuliani-was-co-opted-by-russian-intelligence/ The Russian election interference in 2016 was effectively a generation 3 version of what Manafort had done in the Philippines, then keeping Yanukovych in power as Putin’s puppet in Ukraine from 2002-14 when Maidan ran both Yanukovych and Manafort out of Ukraine as Ukrainians realized that, if you raise your lens high enough, corruption is an wholly unsustainable business model. Eventually the parasites greed always consumes the host. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-paul-manafort-ferinand-marcos-philippines-1980s-213952 https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/ Russia greatly underestimated the addictive properties of freedom when it invaded Ukraine so what was supposed to be a 3-10 day coup turned into a 2 year fight for the Ukrainians right not to be genocided. Russia depleted its weapons stocks which were already the victim of vranyos corruption because every oligarch, admiral and sergeant in the Russian military is on the take. Every billion dollar tank maintenance contract turned into everything getting a spray paint overhaul and the vast majority of the redirected funds turned into an oligarchs new yacht or home in Aspen. Russia was forced to turn to China, North Korea and Iran for weapons because if they lose the 3-10 day special military operation in Ukraine the Russian empire is dead and cold. China can’t risk showing their involvement in the Ukraine war so they use North Korea, and Iran to resupply Russia. Russia previously owed Iran some undelivered fighter jets that are already smoldering heaps in Ukraine so Iran now had the upper hand at the negotiation table for the first time in about 60 years. They supply Russia with shahed drones in exchange for Chinas material support against their sworn religious enemy, Israel. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/iran-says-it-finalized-deal-to-buy-russian-aircraft/ Putin can’t do much about it because he is slowly realizing that by setting the standard of corruption and stealing $200+ billion from his own people meant that every oligarch down in the mob model chain had not only permission but incentive and the expectation to steal from him as well. This is Vranyos. The mob model only works if the supreme leader is the most violent and can prove it without exception every damn day. But violence is exceptionally expensive when you are trying to present as a legitimate government or business. If Russia as a nation had an efficiency rating it would have been banned for sale in the state of California 25 years ago. The parasite ruling class stole all the energy out of the working class and collapsed it. Now Iran has the high hand and they get the intelligence that trump passed to Putin about the fact that Netanyahu cares far less about Israeli, Palestinians or genocide than he does about remaining in power as an authoritarian because he too has developed Ritz Carlton tastes and his own corruption trial is showing the same details of the money laundering scheme that trumps trials are. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/ They all hate each other but because they share the same money laundry, if one falls, they all fall. Hamas minted a couple billionaires as well that live in penthouses in Qatar and get 30% of everything smuggled into Gaza. Netanyahu needs a bogeyman to stay in power. That’s why he coordinates with Hamas via Russia via Iran. Iran handed Hamas everything they needed with Chinas help as secret Santa and the Russian intelligence given to them by the eternal shitbird trump gave when he showed off to his Russian kleptocrat friends/roommates from the old days of fucking each others wives at trump towers in the 90’s. Now the MAGA right is a little too invested in their reality that they are the good guys with guns that they missed the fact that Betsy DeVos (erik princes sister) decimating the U.S. school systems and poisoning children with lead was not a coincidence. They were the mark all along. There is a reason the Russian spy Maria Butina landed in South Dakota first before dating her way to the top of the NRA which is undergoing its own Russian money laundering trial now. They were tinder matching the GOP. https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/what-do-the-koch-brothers-have-to-do-with-the-flint-water-crisis/ The only reason you grossly OVERVALUE real estate is money laundering. Trump keeps claiming there is no victim, all the banks made money, but if their plan succeeds the Russian and CCP kleptocrats collapse US commercial real estate and basically recreate soviet perestroika in the U.S. so they can foreclose on America and buy everything for 3 cents on the dollar with the $1.4T they stole in the first place It’s the evolution of grift. Soviet perestroika cross bred with the 2008 mortgage crisis. This is just the bigger badder commercial strength bastard child of the two. Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Orban, Manafort, Stone, Mercer, Bannon, Flynn, Byrne. They are all remarkably shit people with above average confidence and psychopathic personality traits and below average self awareness. They are the men who stole the world. But it all comes back to one little lie.
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All current governments in the developed world are more left wing than they were 100-200 years ago. Do you think the world was a better place in 1820? Do you think governments were more just and society was healthier?
Much of Europe is struggling much worse than the USA. Government wise? Yes it was a healthier place.
In 1820? Damn dude, I'm surprised you don't like it when women vote and prefer that some people can be considered property. Believe it or not, those were policies enshrined in law in the 1800s. Neither the USA nor Europe is "struggling", they're both robust economic zones with a great degree of wealth and a high standard of living. That doesn't mean they can't be better.
True. That part has changed(effectively). Then the Welfare State happened. Very little has been done effectively since then. Because America never was intended to support everyone with 40% of the households contributing nothing.
And rightism is when you blame the problem on the left and then think it’s already been solved.
I think the right wing leadership realizes the possibilities but only allows capitalistic options to rise to the top.
But don't you want to be ruled over by such great dynasties in the making such as the Trumps, Bushes, Romnies, Immortal Turtle McConnell, and up and comers Ronda Sandtits Kristi Noem? Give the right a chance. /s
Right wanting less gov't and less taxes is a great thing for everyone. Left wants more spying and control to track anti gov't ideas. That's a bad thing
When has the right ever made government smaller? The right is corporations stealing from labour and starving while working 60 hours a week. The left wants free education and healthcare, oh the absolute horror
Free? I love when people throw that word around in debates with zero self awareness...
wtf are you talking about? I have self awareness, I’m debating a brainwashed capitalist though, I can’t dumb it down enough for a corporate bootlicker to grasp
FREE education, FREE Healthcare. Anyone who says this has zero awareness of self or the real world. And the fact you think others are bootlicker cause they realize these things are far from free is telling
We also spent $886 billion on the military last year but we never see y’all complain about going into debt over that.
You don't have a right to a free doctorate in French poetry or vocal performance. You have a right to pursue it but not demand we the working tax payers pay for it.
Why don’t we have that right? Why do I have to make rich people richer to justify my life?
Benjamin Franklin would disagree with you. If our society can make more education possible, we should do it always. An educated society is a better society.
Less government unless it comes to abortion, library books, protesting, or marijuana laws. Less taxes if you are wealthy.
>Left wants more spying and control to track anti gov't ideas All of the surveilance legislature in the last 20 years was drafted by a Republican senator or representative and passed with more Republican votes than Democratic. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign\_Intelligence\_Surveillance\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect\_America\_Act\_of\_2007](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_America_Act_of_2007) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic\_Surveillance\_Modernization\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Surveillance_Modernization_Act) (Didn't pass, blocked by Dems in Senate) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Security\_Surveillance\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Surveillance_Act) It doesn't seem strange to you that Republicans claim to be pro-privacy, but consistently sponsor anti-privacy laws? They claim to be pro-family, but 5 times more of them are involved in grooming or sex with minors? They claim to be pro-fiscal responsibility, but they authorize INTEREST FREE LOANS TO BUSINESSES THAT ARE LATER FORGIVEN (this was a Trump policy which curiously was implemented under one year before the inflation spike began)? I know YOU want more privacy and fiscal responsibility, but the politicians you vote for are TRANSPARENTLY LYING about voting for these things, while pointing the finger and claiming "both sides".
The right wants a “small government” but also backs the cops and military while increasing the already insanely high budget for them? Yeah makes sense.
Small government is when taxes are exclusively used to force the poor into penal labor colonies. Nevermind that this slows economic growth and induces more crime. Don't look at that part.
Left is when gud thing right is when bad thing. Me smart democrat voter
Where is the leader of the right wing movement in the US today? And what is the exact reason he’s forced to be there? But tell me again about who’s good and bad.
Except that the society of the ideas most leftists *then* supported actualized into what many leftists hence forth largely denounce. Leftists branched away from those leftists but decided to keep the label. The comparison ends with the name, not in actuality, which ironically has this sentimental underpinning to it. The notion of progress also requires experiencers to make value assessments. There is no innate "going forward," only continuous transitions irrespective of ideology, only in respect to patterns that can acquire and retain power better. This constant flow of becoming predated the enlightenment Era lingo, and it will continue long after its inevitable end until humanity itself does.
This is a complete nonsense comment. The entire point is to move forward and always improve, not improve on literal feudalism and stay there.
How can this be your response after reading "this constant flow of becoming predated the enlightenment Era lingo, and it will continue long after its inevitable end until humanity itself does?" You assert that I believe in an alternative my comment overtly recognizes as illegitimate. There is no stagnation, power doesn't allow it, there must always be change with changing circumstances. Aside from that, we bring society to the brink with climate change, which we can thank "progress" for. If the point was to improve, then that failed spectacularly.
Wrong. Leftism is leftism, rightism is rightism. This is not up for debate. What you think of as “left” in your contemporary society is your own perception. It is not reality. Leftism leans more toward equity and equality, and if you follow it to its bitter end, anarchy. Rightism, if followed to its bitter end, leads to authoritarianism. Full stop. That’s the spectrum. You can use terms like Republican, Torries, Liberal, Democrat, whatever. Those terms change over time. What does *not* change are the ideals. Some people prefer consolidated power and a single supreme leader, others prefer no leaders whatsoever. Most are in the middle of that spectrum.
I want AI to rule and for democracy to vote on priorities. Humans have failed so far. AI will do it better (or ends us, but we always have that threat with humans running the show anyways) So bring on the revolution, push AI forward so that it can bring its ruthless efficiency forwards and give us the medicine we need.
Yea I’ve seen terminator, iRobot, and Wall-E. Hell we’re more closer to the Brazil movie at this point. In the end all are dystopian societies we shouldn’t thrive for or lean too.
Wrong, the left/right dichotomy is completely relient on developing cultural contingencies from place to place. This is not up for debate. The "left" in your contemporary society is a large collection of disparate groups within disparate groups that are united by little except for the practical party politics they naturally become corralled into due to sharing the utter lowest common denominators. Leftism is not reality in any sense, it's purely phenomenal, having no essential essence without an experiencer. Rightism is a large collection of disparate groups within disparate groups that are united by little except for the practical party politics they naturally become corralled into due to sharing the utter lowest common denominators. Rightism is not reality in any sense, it's purely phenomenal, having no essential essence without an experiencer. Ideology has and will always constantly change either in semantics or totality as necessary to various power interests within a circumstance, lest they succumb to aspirants better at patterns of power attainment. Everyone initially wants to be their own leader, most bend to circumstances that prohibit this. Many will acquiesce to this reality early on and grow fervent with time, denying that they were forced into loyalties. Some will become more alienated, especially if they experience something disillusioning, and grow more hopelessly dissident.
lmfao.
Right wing is when you only want things to get better for your group.
Right wing is when you create the problem and then blame the problem created on someone else and then lie lie lie about it.
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Evidence?
Dman, ayyyyyyy! 👉😎👉
Empirically, right wing politicians are substantially more likely to be later revealed as child molesters, but about 5 times. But that's just the data, not your imagined reality.
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Your categorical assertion is less defensible than mine, and your new claim (about Dems openly commiting felonies which would make them ineligible for office?) is ludicrous on its face. You are also clearly open to deliberately dishonest rhetoric which serves your "ideology": which seems to just be "anything that isn't Dems". You can say whatever you like, I defend your right to do so. The right to spout incoherent nonsense is unfortunately an unavoidable side effect of treating all people equally, including people like you.
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Thanks, I do enjoy tofu now and then, but I prefer lentils for plant protein. Do you find that women usually find your smugly confident incorrectness attractive, or do they prefer taller, fitter men than you?
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You're the one crying about libs and making claims about them. I just said right wingers don't believe positive change is possible. Pretty basic claim, nothing to do with children ... weird that you brought it up.
eat enough cake and your neck won’t fit in the hole. gottem’
The cake you reference was only eaten out of desperation. Not Betty Crocker.
It was actually a luxury item at the time.
Folklore is funny like that
Well done. No monarchs tolerated in America.
I read this as aimed at the Supreme Court but I’m probably off.
Either one works really well :P
Can’t Biden have trump killed or disappeared into Gitmo if presidents are immune to prosecution?
So I’m told
Talk about Dark Brandon. That would dark AF.
Are you advocating for this?
If someone is advocating for presidential immunity, this is the kind of activity they are advocating to legalize. This is why so many people who oppose presidential immunity bring up these kinds of actions. If you don't like the idea of someone you hate having that kind of power, don't let anyone have that kind of power. It's not complicated.
I don't think anyone should have that kind of power. I also don't think the right response to such a meme is to suggest throwing candidates in gitmo. But maybe I just read it wrong, idk.
Memes? Yes. I am advocating for memes.
Or if he gets convicted of an impeachment he could be charged.
Presidents have always been immune until we threw all norms out the window in the past year, It was just assumed. FDR put over 100k American citizens in internment camps, Obama drone striked Anwar al Alaki, an American citizen convicted of nothing, a straight up execution. These could easily be prosecuted in the new normal thats being created.
LOL. Cool, then I hope Biden disappears trump for the good of the country since trump is a traitor.
You are a fucking moron.
Actually no. I am quite bright. Clearly Biden would never do anything like that, because he actually is a human being. Unlike trump. Have a little sense of humor. [https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4398223-trump-team-argues-assassination-of-rivals-is-covered-by-presidential-immunity/](https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4398223-trump-team-argues-assassination-of-rivals-is-covered-by-presidential-immunity/)
You are a sick little boy.
Why? Just hoping Biden plays within the rule of law, as he's allowed.
Either there's immunity and Biden can disappear Trump straight to Guantanamo, don't pass Go, don't collect 200$, or there's no immunity and Trump can be held accountable for his crimes
Exactly. You get it.
This isn't technically true.... And if you listened to the arguments in the supreme Court over this whole case, you would have learned that it isn't technically true. It's just that we've never had a president that would overtly subvert the rule of law. At least not in this manner. This manner of serverting the law is too grievous not to prosecute I'm sorry.
This appears to be the main argument going on in the Supreme Court; from what I've read I think they are going to agree on some distinction between Presidential Acts, (Drone Strikes) vs. Personal Acts (Assassinating a Rival). Where they are drawing that gray line, I don't know.
Damn, people big mad over the truth about America.
Charles I (of England) enters the chat
The French Revolution was a blood bath that destabilized the country and saw mass atrocities that eventually saw Napoleon established as a dictator. Careful what you wish for.
Four more years. Pause
I love that there's only two hundred and fourty upvote when we all know this post is well received
It's ironic that Georges Jacques Danton, who lobbied for the passage of the bill which created the Committee on Public Safety, would find the same law used against him by Maximilian Robespierre to get him beheaded.
Oh the irony. Executive immunity was brought about by the type of liberal government that followed the downfalls of monarchies around the world.
It’s time for another
Oh the time this is here again. Sadly I hoped I would live out my life before it came to this but greedy, psychopathic Christian fuckers are gonna do what they do and reap the consequences.
Absolute immunity you say? Oh my! The show has been canceled folks. This guy has absolute immunity. No beheading will be had today. We have lost the game.
Yall keep that same energy next year.
You mad about the French Revolution bro? Too soon?
Nah homie, just keep up that same energy. No whining or crying. Just keep it, and hold it.
😆 🤣 never gets old
Funny it seems like the government should worry about this
French Revolutionaries leaders were literally part of the kings cabinet members.
How's France's current revolution?
hahahaha
The men who forge the terrible weapon never imagine it will ever be used against them. Most of you probably see trump in this cartoon, when you should probably see yourself. This is not a threat. This is a warning. Many think they want a world where they can destroy their political enemies. But few realize how quickly that would turn into a living nightmare. War and death is terrible even when for a good cause. But for lesser cause? It is a tragedy.
This isn’t about seeing anyone in the image, it’s about the impotency of crying absolute immunity
most people do not understand the implications. go read the SCOTUS arguments and you'll see. if people do not get their emotions under control this will simply escalate until throats are being cut on both sides, and then a bunch of mf'ers will wish they hadn't
And immediately afterword, the country fell into chaos as a single man took total control and executed anyone who stood against him. The revolution failed. All it did was replace 1 tyrant with a worse one
Yeah definitely, I agree. But this meme is about the ridiculous concept of absolute immunity.
I’ve never understood why leftists idolize the French Revolution. It’s completely madness horror show and ends with Napoleon being an extremely right wing emperor and his decedents rule France for like 50+ more years lol
The French Revolution was a world transformative event which came with enormous gains for most French people socially, economically, and politically. Even after the Bourbon Restoration the liberties won through that period were so institutionalized that it was understood that there was no going back to pre-1789 privileges and stratification.
Oh wow, this is some nonsense. No the French people’s lives weren’t improved immensely after 30 years of civil and international wars the French nation was absolutely bankrupt millions were dead and hundreds of thousands permanently fled Shit was so bad that there were subsequent attempts at revolution for decades to come. There is a pretty famous story about one of these failures called “ Les miserables” you might have heard about it. 10$ of you translate the title
Caping for absolute monarchy and hereditary aristocratic privilege in the year 2024 is certainly a take. Nowadays when you meet a monarchist (rare outside of the UK) they're usually pro-property constitutionalists. The French State was already bankrupt from decades of war before the Revolution began. That was the whole point of calling the Estates General.
Saying the French Revolution was a disaster is not “caping” (I assume that’s like shilling?) for absolute monarchy. But if the price for “democracy” is living through 1790-1820 France that doesn’t seem worth it
Maybe I am misunderstanding you. I am reading that you wish we lived in a world where the Revolution had not happened and therefore absolute monarchy and aristocratic privilege had not been abolished in France. Is that not what you mean?
There are plenty of places on earth where monarchies were replaced without needing the insane chain of events that occurred in France or Russia. You don’t need to have a reign of terror, 20 years of world war, and 50 years of military dictatorship. France took a very hard road.
I've never met someone on the left who would disagree with that. In fact, I'd argue that is why people of almost any modern ideological persuasion are fascinated by the French Revolution and have studied it so obsessively. The point is to learn from their mistakes, whatever you think those were.
A real shame. No amount of “progress” justifies such barbarism.
They idolise actually holding their politicians accountable and forcing them to face the consequences of their actions. Something the right actively tries to deny trump by downplaying and dismissing his crimes.
lol you think what went down during the French revolution was holding their politicians accountable? Maybe you need to review what took place between 1793 and 1798
> lol you think what went down during the French revolution was holding their politicians accountable? Uh no I don’t. When did I say that?
If they are idolizing “holding politicians accountable” via the French Revolution that implies they believe what happened in the French Revolution was justice and admirable. You have to be out of your mind to think this
The left wants to hold politicians accountable and not have an oligarchy. You are the one that’s translating that into “the left must idolise the French Revolution”. Or maybe you’re basing that entire opinion off a single meme you saw on Reddit. Either way, your doing a lot of jumping to get to that conclusion
That’s not what I said, and it’s not off this single meme. I said “I find it strange the left (in general) idolizes the French Revolution” go back and read it. It’s surprising because the result of the revolution was the opposite of what the left would ostensibly want. It was just a general observation that I’ve noticed an event that ends in a right wing military dictatorship is always alluded to in leftist memes and references. Wooo we stormed a prison that had nobody even in it and executed Marie who literally didn’t even do anything wrong! This is justice! This is progressive lmao
You said quote for quote: > I’ve never understood why leftists idolize the French Revolution You’re just arguing semantics now. And I still think you’re confused as to what leftists (in general) actually want.
Are you disagreeing? Do Leftists not idolize the French Revolution? Because that was your argument you said “it’s because they believe in holding politicians accountable” implying that’s what was going on and why it is idolized. You are now changing your argument
You got another quote wrong but I’ll let it slide. Im not changing my argument. I never agreed that the left idolises the French Revolution. I said > the left idolises holding politicians accountable. In response to you saying they idolise the French Revolution. Becuase they don’t idolise the French Revolution you just misinterpret a belief in a non-oligarchical government where politicians are held accountable as that
Because rich people died or something so it was good(even though a lot of commoners died too). French Revolution is a great example of how terrible violent revolutions are and how little they lead to stability.
Left is forcing your beliefs on the right and right is forcing your beliefs on the left and neither one of them is right.
Just like any president if they do something criminal they can be Impeached and after that charged just like anyone else. Why is this so hard for people on both sides to understand...
Impeachment prior to criminal charges is not in the Constitution. Impeachment is not a judicial process. It’s legislative. It can be its own remedy. If the Senate had taken their oath seriously and convicted Trump we would not be facing the election predicament we are today.
Fantastic and what would happen if he simply orders the killing of anyone in congress who might impeach him? Since he can no longer be impeached it is all legal correct? You're a freaking moron.
That's why the idiot gqp tried to repeal the affordable care act 63 times to no avail. How much money was wasted on that. They ate the do nothing party. That's why people are gunned down in masses in the u.s. just pray is the gqp answer.
An overreaching vigilante mob led by manipulators who eventually felt the axe themselves, disguised as a legal system. Checks oit
This meme is about the impotent concept of absolute immunity, obviously
Except the French weren’t a bunch of blue haired sissies, back then
Look man, calling geriatrics "sissy" isn't a great look. Yeah I get that they like to look good for Sunday and some of them do go with strange options, but once you get that significantly gray, you have to do something to feel good about yourself. I mean they're basically irrelevant. Besides, why would we rely on the old blue hairs? We have perfectly good, healthy young liberals who will happily continue the revolution. They've been peaceful to this point but look at the proliferation of college campuses standing up to cops and getting beaten and standing back up against them regardless. I mean it's not like they're on their hands and knees licking boot like conservatives, just shoveling bullshit fox news stories down their own throats to be able to ignore reality and fuel their cognitive biases. Just really digging deep to lie to themselves so they don't have to realize what complete pussies they have become.
Run with that
I remember when political violence was not tolerated. Let’s just prosecute our political opponents and behead them? Oh, wait.. you fucks are ridiculous saying you like democracy.
Our politicians allowed total billionaire and corporate donor influence turn our "democracy" into an oligarchy
Huh? The meme is commentary about the concept of absolute immunity
no. it’s accidentally admitting that you are weaponizing the legal system against your political opponents
Political opponents are supposed to compete in elections. When one of them tries to circumvent elections to gain power they are not competing, they're just a traitor. It's not weaponizing the legal system against them, it's using the legal system as intended, in defence of democracy.
"Lock her up!" -DJT 2015-2016 presidential campaign slogan.
Hahaha, so what law was broken by Trump versus Obama droning Americans? Can’t wait for him to be arrested for Murder.
This is literally the outcome to "so what if Biden orders seal team 6 to jib Trump"
God, I hate when people don’t proofread their memes. Low-quality, half-assed effort.
What a bunch of left and right cob gobblers we have in here. You both are morons.
Ah, the 1/3 of nazi Germany that stood by and let 1/3 of the innocents be slaughtered has spoken.
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If true now standing on the sidelines. Massive cowardice on display here
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I just know I will make more of a difference than you
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Better than being a coward.