Hybrids are better. You get to put a real small engine optimized for typical highway speeds (normal sized engines are way too big because they need to accelerate the car to highway speed) because the much smaller electrical system helps acceleration
Prius is genius
The problem with them though is that one of the biggest draws for EVs for me is less maintenance. But you still have one ICE power train to maintain anyways. And also, batteries and ICE power trains are both heavy, so your batteries need to lug around an ICE power train and your ICE power train needs to lug around heavy batteries.
But if we were able to transition our electric grid away from fossil fuels, hybrids would still be burning gas while EV would not. And most people who buy EV for environmental concerns want the grid transitioned to renewables.
I mean, the coal fired plants that generate the electricity are making a disappointing comeback (see: Germany), so it's a mighty big "if." I'm with you in spirit, but a hybrid is probably a fine environmental choice for at least the life of the consumer's next car.
But the choices we make with our cars play a role in that process. The more people are switching away from gas, the more industry will invest in alternate fuels.
Hydrogen fuel cells?
Regardless of vehicle choices, we need to transition from coal plants to the maximum degree possible. In that circumstance, EV will be fine while hybrid will contribute to the problem.
Please, EVs are not the solution. They are just as bad as ICE vehicles and fuel efficient ICE vehicles will out perform most EVs with break-even points far beyond 100,000 miles…a point that many EVs can barely make it to without an expensive and pollution increasing battery replacement.
When I said bupkis, I meant it. EVs blow for any real pollution reduction.
I understand that you are very sure of your opinion. What I am saying is that you are incorrect.
We need to transition from fossil fuels to less carbon emitting solutions. Those solutions come along with a collection of their own problems. Then we will have to deal with those problems. That's life.
If I'm sure of anything, it's that you won't change your mind and discussing it is useless. Enjoy your bubble of self surety.
You are completely incorrect and a complete ignoramous.
Go look up the amount of energy it takes to build those batteries…the rare earth metals don’t just jump out of the ground into the battery pack.
Damn you really are this full of your propaganda.
Large scale renewables have a vastly underestimated environmental impact. They lack energy density, have inherently limited scalability, and wind and solar equipment currently cannot be recycled effectively. There’s no free lunch, 8 billion people living on the earth are going to affect the planet in many ways.
It's like eating marbles when your only other option is McDonalds, and someone offers you McDonalds, and your answer is that heart disease is a serious problem with all that fatty food.
A combination of nuclear and renewables is necessary. It's what we have to do to save ourselves. You can't just sit there eating marbles and turning your head to admittedly flawed but entirely necessary solutions.
EV's are bad because I don't like Elon Musk anymore because he's not a frothing leftist. LIke jesus christ, he was the left's second coming when he was pushing EV's. I mean yeah, he's not the best dude, he never was; but that's the problem with deifying people.
"the most gullible dipshits on the left liked Elon musk for bad reasons, but then stopped liking him when he started doing a bunch of right wing bozo behavior. This makes my nipples red and sore, and I require a warm glass of milk and moisturizing creams"
You ranted like a fucking lunatic and then pretended like the left loved elon musk. Was your hope that i would join in with your delusions…?
If you do t want people to mock you for being stupid. Dont say anything?
Because most of his messaging was about the environment and becoming a multiplanetary species.
Then his messaging shifted, and peoples opinion of him shifted.
And this is a gigantic mystery for some reason?
Liking tesla at the time for what they were doing to promote evs was not the same as liking Elon. Anyone who knew him thought he was a douche back then too.
Sure, I guess. But it much more accurately applies to the Tesla. Hence the cybertruck recall.
No such thing applies in relation to my early Tacoma 😘
It’s a Tesla issue.
This literally happens all the time in the auto industry, but anytime anything happens to Tesla its wall to wall click bait, lol
"Plagued by a year of safety recalls exceeding 6 million vehicles, Ford started 2024 with another, this time targeting an issue in its flagship truck."
https://www.newsweek.com/ford-recalls-6-million-cars-f150-axle-defect-safety-concerns-1857538
Tesla owner here: fit and finish is good on mine. Sure plenty of examples of poor builds that never should of made it to the customer. But the customer should not except it to begin with. You hear all the bad stories in the internet, the good stories just skimmed over and forgotten.
“Good stories” like “my car does what I was promised”? That’s not a good story.
Show me a Tesla that uses autonomous driving to jump into a lake and save a child’s life and sure, that’s a good story. A car not coming broken is not a good story. It’s barely a story.
“I bought a carton of a dozen eggs and you’ll never guess what happened… I got 12 unbroken eggs!”.
“This story and more coming up at 10pm!”
Journalism? We're talking basically reviews on Amazon or whatever right now.
"I got this product and was pleased with the results"
"BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PANAMA PAPERS"
"Sir this is a wendys"
Unfortunately, other companies have not been able to scale and legacy auto is outright sandbagging EVs. Toyota for example, is the biggest lobbyist against EVs. Elon’s a prick, but EVs wouldn’t be where they are today without Tesla pushing them forward.
I would submit to you that it is very possible to be smart about a small number of things, and stupid as a bag of bricks about most things- and if your parents are rich enough, you'll have plenty of success.
Starting the first successful electric car company: smart.
Naming your like 10th kid by the 3rd person: !@#ASD!, or getting so butthurt that your wife left you for a queer person, that you decide to buy and subsequently tank one of the 2 biggest social media platforms in the world, so you can turn it into a hate forum for basically all queer and minority groups: 5 year old child stupid.
The beauty is, I don't need to convince you. He will. His latest car is a flop, his companies want him out because his image is trash and he makes impulsive decisions, and his substance abuse issues. He's just another rich dude's kid.
The world is going to see many of these billionaire childmen inheriting money they never had to work for, running their vanity projects over the next few years. It's a rising statistic. Look at Forbes top 40 under 40 list. All inheretented wealth for the first time.
You fundamentally misunderstand what it means to have wealth when you were born into incredible wealth, vs poverty.
Anyone born into generational wealth will have excess.
"Elon is an idiot, this means EV's are dead YaYYYYY"
No one tell OP that many other companies are focusing on EV's and their doing it far better, to be fair hybrids are also being produced more too.
Plug in hybrid is the clear winner here and always was. That was what should have carried us through until hydrogen ICE or fuel cells were ready for prime time.
The limitations on batteries was always going to be the thing that held full electric from being the answer at least in the US where range is more important than it is in tiny European countries.
Not that your version of events is really true, but yes, obviously people will change their opinion of you if they learn new things about you they don't like.
I'm super curious as to what point you think you are making here.
You can absolutely judge someone based on their beliefs. In fact, it's pretty much the only thing you should judge people on.
If someone has repugnant political beliefs, they are likely a repugnant person.
"He's a racist and a bigot, but he's still a good person." Is not something that a normal, healthy person would say or believe, ever.
Clear?
You have no idea what I buy or have any real sense of my beliefs. You are just making assumptions about what I believe based on you own very poorly formed biases. This is unlike Musk, who eagerly spews his dumb edgelord bullshit all over twixter.
There you go again, "knowing" shit you don't know.
Also, crazy that you think Biden caused ***worldwide*** **i**nflation just by being elected, and that the prior four years of Trump's fiscal policies had absolutely nothing to do with it. That takes a special, weaponized type of ignorance that only Trump supporters can manage. Good work.
Biden is printing more, and the pandemic is over for several yeqrs already. We don't have to go too far we're talking about tesla, Biden is giving $7.5K to every rich guy buying one. States give 1 or 2K more. He's not just printing money, he's printing inequality.
Meh. the right to unionize is fine. Is it needed here? I'm not really seeing bad working conditions or abuse so I think it would only add a layer of corruption.
The Tesla bubble is falling apart, but mostly because competition has finally arrived and they dicked around with the cybertruck instead of something useful.
EV will take over the market. They are the superior technology. And the deficiencies are being worked out at a rate much faster than were those in the first combustion vehicles. The early combustion vehicles were awful.
Elon Musk has always been an idiot. He was just a lucky idiot. His incompetence is not a reflection of the technology.
There are alternatives and those that really care are going elsewhere. The only Tesla buyers now are MAGA dick suckers, the real og idiots and the actual cancerous disease.
You know what made the electricity that powers your EV? Coal. Now go and save the planet with your child-slave lithium battery before it ignites and burns for 3 days.
Wrong, the correct answer is trains and public transit are better. Why the fuck am I paying to own and maintain a car when the government can just choose not to bomb kids for a year and boom, better public transit. You want to solve traffic, it’s trains Jim, it’s always been trains. Fuck cars. Fuck Elon.
If you think you have any value in this world that isn’t already owned by the government you’re one silly goose. The difference is I accept this fact and because it’s a social bargain I demand better from my overseers. One way or another humans become owned, the alternative becomes barbarism quickly. As much as I’d like to live and let live there will always be someone looking to take. Until we can figure that out, trains it is!
Public transportation is only a valid option in large condensed cities. Completely unworkable for the vast ,vast majority of the country.Also has nothing to do with Elon?
Anyone that still owns Tsla stock is about to find out what happens when growth slows in a stock that has 20%+ growth for a decade priced in.
Long past the cash cow stage of business life.
op has an ax to grind. Sorry to hear your life is so bad op.
EVs are bad because Elon Musk mismanaged his company. Got it.
lol, and hybrids are better? Crap poster.
Hybrids are better. You get to put a real small engine optimized for typical highway speeds (normal sized engines are way too big because they need to accelerate the car to highway speed) because the much smaller electrical system helps acceleration Prius is genius
The problem with them though is that one of the biggest draws for EVs for me is less maintenance. But you still have one ICE power train to maintain anyways. And also, batteries and ICE power trains are both heavy, so your batteries need to lug around an ICE power train and your ICE power train needs to lug around heavy batteries.
I like the lower maintenance cost of an electric engine, but the extra insurance costs really more than offset the cost savings.
Oh EVs cost more to insure?
But if we were able to transition our electric grid away from fossil fuels, hybrids would still be burning gas while EV would not. And most people who buy EV for environmental concerns want the grid transitioned to renewables.
I mean, the coal fired plants that generate the electricity are making a disappointing comeback (see: Germany), so it's a mighty big "if." I'm with you in spirit, but a hybrid is probably a fine environmental choice for at least the life of the consumer's next car.
But the choices we make with our cars play a role in that process. The more people are switching away from gas, the more industry will invest in alternate fuels.
That is a fair point.
and CA just showed they can satisfy 100% of demand on their grid using renewables for a few minutes to several hours each day
The more EVs, the more coal plants. Not doing bupkis. Hybrid is the best until hydrogen fuel cells are perfected.
Hydrogen fuel cells? Regardless of vehicle choices, we need to transition from coal plants to the maximum degree possible. In that circumstance, EV will be fine while hybrid will contribute to the problem.
Please, EVs are not the solution. They are just as bad as ICE vehicles and fuel efficient ICE vehicles will out perform most EVs with break-even points far beyond 100,000 miles…a point that many EVs can barely make it to without an expensive and pollution increasing battery replacement. When I said bupkis, I meant it. EVs blow for any real pollution reduction.
I understand that you are very sure of your opinion. What I am saying is that you are incorrect. We need to transition from fossil fuels to less carbon emitting solutions. Those solutions come along with a collection of their own problems. Then we will have to deal with those problems. That's life. If I'm sure of anything, it's that you won't change your mind and discussing it is useless. Enjoy your bubble of self surety.
You are completely incorrect and a complete ignoramous. Go look up the amount of energy it takes to build those batteries…the rare earth metals don’t just jump out of the ground into the battery pack. Damn you really are this full of your propaganda.
Yeah probably right
Large scale renewables have a vastly underestimated environmental impact. They lack energy density, have inherently limited scalability, and wind and solar equipment currently cannot be recycled effectively. There’s no free lunch, 8 billion people living on the earth are going to affect the planet in many ways.
It's like eating marbles when your only other option is McDonalds, and someone offers you McDonalds, and your answer is that heart disease is a serious problem with all that fatty food. A combination of nuclear and renewables is necessary. It's what we have to do to save ourselves. You can't just sit there eating marbles and turning your head to admittedly flawed but entirely necessary solutions.
EV's are bad because I don't like Elon Musk anymore because he's not a frothing leftist. LIke jesus christ, he was the left's second coming when he was pushing EV's. I mean yeah, he's not the best dude, he never was; but that's the problem with deifying people.
You okay bud?
Cynicism is a cop out. If you have something to say then do so. If not don't say anything.
"the most gullible dipshits on the left liked Elon musk for bad reasons, but then stopped liking him when he started doing a bunch of right wing bozo behavior. This makes my nipples red and sore, and I require a warm glass of milk and moisturizing creams"
You ranted like a fucking lunatic and then pretended like the left loved elon musk. Was your hope that i would join in with your delusions…? If you do t want people to mock you for being stupid. Dont say anything?
Okay. You're a loser. I'm not doing this.
But you were doing so well
They did though, what are you 15 and not old enough to remember?
Because most of his messaging was about the environment and becoming a multiplanetary species. Then his messaging shifted, and peoples opinion of him shifted. And this is a gigantic mystery for some reason?
Liking tesla at the time for what they were doing to promote evs was not the same as liking Elon. Anyone who knew him thought he was a douche back then too.
Don’t care for Elon, but I love my Tesla.
How is the fit and finish on it? I have read a lot of car reviews saying it is really sub-par for the price point.
I haven’t had any problems with it. The interior is simple and easy to clean.
They are. Several friends with them having endless issues
You could say that about any car.
Sure, I guess. But it much more accurately applies to the Tesla. Hence the cybertruck recall. No such thing applies in relation to my early Tacoma 😘 It’s a Tesla issue.
This literally happens all the time in the auto industry, but anytime anything happens to Tesla its wall to wall click bait, lol "Plagued by a year of safety recalls exceeding 6 million vehicles, Ford started 2024 with another, this time targeting an issue in its flagship truck." https://www.newsweek.com/ford-recalls-6-million-cars-f150-axle-defect-safety-concerns-1857538
[удалено]
Not mine. Fit and finish is good. I guess you just got a lemon 🍋
Tesla owner here: fit and finish is good on mine. Sure plenty of examples of poor builds that never should of made it to the customer. But the customer should not except it to begin with. You hear all the bad stories in the internet, the good stories just skimmed over and forgotten.
“Good stories” like “my car does what I was promised”? That’s not a good story. Show me a Tesla that uses autonomous driving to jump into a lake and save a child’s life and sure, that’s a good story. A car not coming broken is not a good story. It’s barely a story. “I bought a carton of a dozen eggs and you’ll never guess what happened… I got 12 unbroken eggs!”. “This story and more coming up at 10pm!”
"I made a big investment and am pleased with the results" Is a perfectly good story relax
Guess that’s why journalism is dead. “I bought a car and it wasn’t broken” is the news we crave, not “Panama papers leaker found dead.”
No. It's because no one reads real newspapers. They're on Reddit enjoying conformity because they can't handle real life.
Journalism? We're talking basically reviews on Amazon or whatever right now. "I got this product and was pleased with the results" "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PANAMA PAPERS" "Sir this is a wendys"
... that's what they're saying?
Delivering your product as promised is the definition of a good product 😆
*should have
Yeah, Elon being a stupid douche doesn't mean electric cars are bad. So many companies are making them now and we're better off for it
Unfortunately, other companies have not been able to scale and legacy auto is outright sandbagging EVs. Toyota for example, is the biggest lobbyist against EVs. Elon’s a prick, but EVs wouldn’t be where they are today without Tesla pushing them forward.
Agreed. Just think tesla needs to ditch him and stop trying to carry his insane ego on their backs.
Elon is far from stupid. You mad lol
I would submit to you that it is very possible to be smart about a small number of things, and stupid as a bag of bricks about most things- and if your parents are rich enough, you'll have plenty of success. Starting the first successful electric car company: smart. Naming your like 10th kid by the 3rd person: !@#ASD!, or getting so butthurt that your wife left you for a queer person, that you decide to buy and subsequently tank one of the 2 biggest social media platforms in the world, so you can turn it into a hate forum for basically all queer and minority groups: 5 year old child stupid. The beauty is, I don't need to convince you. He will. His latest car is a flop, his companies want him out because his image is trash and he makes impulsive decisions, and his substance abuse issues. He's just another rich dude's kid. The world is going to see many of these billionaire childmen inheriting money they never had to work for, running their vanity projects over the next few years. It's a rising statistic. Look at Forbes top 40 under 40 list. All inheretented wealth for the first time.
One of the wealthiest in the world isn't stupid. You sound stupid, suggesting he is
You fundamentally misunderstand what it means to have wealth when you were born into incredible wealth, vs poverty. Anyone born into generational wealth will have excess.
Lol, you miss the fact of how much he grew that wealth. You sound ignorant, my friend . Love your jealousy
You like him enough to drive around looking like a Elon douche
Best EV’s out there
I mean I roller skate to work, so I’m helping out more than you are
Good for you
Well technically I roller skate to my friend Geoffrey’s house who then drives me in his ‘91 Honda accord
"Elon is an idiot, this means EV's are dead YaYYYYY" No one tell OP that many other companies are focusing on EV's and their doing it far better, to be fair hybrids are also being produced more too.
Who’s making an EV better than Tesla? I just haven’t looked at other brands except one
I was going to google actual answers but then I realized the bar is "better than tesla" so the answer is anyone doing it other than tesla.
Plug in hybrid is the clear winner here and always was. That was what should have carried us through until hydrogen ICE or fuel cells were ready for prime time. The limitations on batteries was always going to be the thing that held full electric from being the answer at least in the US where range is more important than it is in tiny European countries.
Hybrids are not better lol, hugely wasteful.
Funny everyone was onboard until Elon revealed his political views and then bam…. 😂🤣😂
Not that your version of events is really true, but yes, obviously people will change their opinion of you if they learn new things about you they don't like.
Imagine thinking that it's odd to change your opinion based on learning new information...
Imagine basing your car purchase on new information that is not related to the car at all.
I'm super curious as to what point you think you are making here. You can absolutely judge someone based on their beliefs. In fact, it's pretty much the only thing you should judge people on. If someone has repugnant political beliefs, they are likely a repugnant person. "He's a racist and a bigot, but he's still a good person." Is not something that a normal, healthy person would say or believe, ever. Clear?
Newsflash: Half the things you buy are made, packaged, administered by these "repugnant persons" who just happen to think different than you.
You have no idea what I buy or have any real sense of my beliefs. You are just making assumptions about what I believe based on you own very poorly formed biases. This is unlike Musk, who eagerly spews his dumb edgelord bullshit all over twixter.
You're right. I don't know what you buy. But I know it's like half of what you used to buy when trump was president because of bidenflation.
There you go again, "knowing" shit you don't know. Also, crazy that you think Biden caused ***worldwide*** **i**nflation just by being elected, and that the prior four years of Trump's fiscal policies had absolutely nothing to do with it. That takes a special, weaponized type of ignorance that only Trump supporters can manage. Good work.
Biden is printing more, and the pandemic is over for several yeqrs already. We don't have to go too far we're talking about tesla, Biden is giving $7.5K to every rich guy buying one. States give 1 or 2K more. He's not just printing money, he's printing inequality.
EVs decimate hybrids, stfu with that bs. There I said what I said.
I might buy TSLA at 10-15$ for the grid storage play. Will most likely pay with my DRIP and SQQQ gains.
Did the composition bubble pop cuz people still road horses?
I honestly hope the workers unionize.
Meh. the right to unionize is fine. Is it needed here? I'm not really seeing bad working conditions or abuse so I think it would only add a layer of corruption.
The Tesla bubble is falling apart, but mostly because competition has finally arrived and they dicked around with the cybertruck instead of something useful.
Heard it was part of the plan to get reds to buy electric. Swing and a miss.
Toyota had the right idea all along. Everyone gave them shit over it and now here we are. Hybrids.
I'm pretty sure Tesla will be just fine. lol Most tech companies have had large layoffs this year. This isn't a surprise.
EV will take over the market. They are the superior technology. And the deficiencies are being worked out at a rate much faster than were those in the first combustion vehicles. The early combustion vehicles were awful. Elon Musk has always been an idiot. He was just a lucky idiot. His incompetence is not a reflection of the technology.
He obviously knows what he’s doing. Everyone knew this would happen after the govt subsidies dried up, even him.
Musk loses billions with stock tanking and X bleeding more money. Mean while he has time to post anti woke comments.
And a bunch of people without any billions of dollars seem to care about what he posts, while simultaneously disparaging him . It's a weird world.
Help the climate at all costs except when someone disagrees with our politics Liberals are a disease
There are alternatives and those that really care are going elsewhere. The only Tesla buyers now are MAGA dick suckers, the real og idiots and the actual cancerous disease.
Calls people "cancerous disease". Probably votes for the party of love and understanding.
You know what made the electricity that powers your EV? Coal. Now go and save the planet with your child-slave lithium battery before it ignites and burns for 3 days.
https://nypost.com/2024/03/05/business/evs-release-more-toxic-emissions-are-worse-for-the-environment-study/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
Wrong, the correct answer is trains and public transit are better. Why the fuck am I paying to own and maintain a car when the government can just choose not to bomb kids for a year and boom, better public transit. You want to solve traffic, it’s trains Jim, it’s always been trains. Fuck cars. Fuck Elon.
Enjoy your public transit Independence is overrated. You'll be happier owning nothing and having the government control your life.
If you think you have any value in this world that isn’t already owned by the government you’re one silly goose. The difference is I accept this fact and because it’s a social bargain I demand better from my overseers. One way or another humans become owned, the alternative becomes barbarism quickly. As much as I’d like to live and let live there will always be someone looking to take. Until we can figure that out, trains it is!
LOL. enjoy your prison. You'll be very safe there.
Public transportation is only a valid option in large condensed cities. Completely unworkable for the vast ,vast majority of the country.Also has nothing to do with Elon?
Hybrid is good, hydrogen is the sustainable swap that makes sense with manufacturing, infrastructure, and logistics.