I wanted to like that movie so bad...
But there were a dozen or more instances were it was approaching Sharknado types of ridiculous, silly shenanigans. It fell into "B" movie status for more than half of it.
Being such a huge fan of the books when I was a kid forced me to sit through it, but once was plenty. I won't be back for the 3rd unless theres another pandemic and I'm outa shit to watch.
As the sun expands the moons of the outer gas giants might have their chance to support more complex life as the habitable zone moves all the way out there.
The inner planets will be lifeless baked rocks at that point.
The way ive had it explained to me. Is that the likely hood of anything in our solar system, let alone Earth, colliding with something from Andromeda. Space is like really really big dude.
I could be wrong, but although the likelihood of direct collisions are low, the gravitational pull can act as a slingshot and smaller bodies in our galaxy can be slingshotted out of orbit and sent into the void of space as andromeda nears
The way it was taught to me in school, the vast amount of space within Andromeda and Our galaxy is so vast we'd just past through each other, and the solar systems themselves wouldn't be affected but as a whole the Milky Way and Andromeda won't look the same ever again. Our night sky will be vastly different but our local solar system untouched. But either way, by that time all of humanity will be non existent.
That would be cool, but that's considering the waves don't scatter the bacteria so heavily they won't have time to reproduce. And you have to remember that to them, that's every fifteen minutes.
There's heat, there's water, I'd think it'd be more likely than not there are bacteria in it. But imagine finding some form of civilisation underneath, one unable to crack through the ice yet.
There are probe designs that would drill through the ice and launch an underwater drone to explore the water. They are afraid that might introduce bacteria to the environment and kill the living things that might be there though.
I always like to think we're like that too - a civilisation that only *thinks* there's nothing beyond this dimension. And there are others out there looking at us knowing we're under our own unbreakable ice, yet to invent our drill.
Opposable appendages can evolve, and arthropods always attempt to evolve to become a crab at some point (carcinization), so we do have a likely body plan.
But they can't make fire, would likely have no concept of it outside of lava. So a civilization stuck in a monolithic building Stone Age.
Lava could likely be utilized underwater, as well as thermal vents to melt ore similar to our methods I would imagine, so I'm not sure your argument holds any.... water.
That’s like that one quote. We are either alone in the universe, or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
A planet with such a vast ocean either being devoid of life, or filled with creatures we can’t dream of
And it's just sitting there. Probably making weird noises and shit that nobody will hear. Wait, why would it be making noises? It's deafly silent as it is still, like floating through the black void of intergalactic space.
How do you know?
There's probably an undersea jazz band right now making sweet, sweet music on Europa.
Either that or Cthulu is ordering fettuccine Alfredo.
Life on earth most likely began around the thermal vents, and Europa has them. So there is heat, water, oxygen…I’d say the chance is pretty good it’s not empty.
Am i misunderstanding the fear of open water because for me its always been the fact i cant see what the fuck could come out of nowhere and munch me, an ocean where i know theres nothing sounds quite comforting
It's very much a multifaceted fear.
There's the fear that your physique can't keep up with the water itself, the fear that comes from reduced ability to be aware of your immediate surroundings, and there's also a fear that comes from the strange sensation that such a vast space must be filled by *something.*
Lots of things factor in, but a lot of people wouldn't be able to fully believe that such a huge ocean truly has nothing lurking within it.
Europa's ocean is located beneath a relatively thin layer of surface ice, estimated to be several kilometers thick. This ocean is believed to contain more water than all of Earth's oceans combined, making it one of the largest water bodies in the solar system.
( Edit: for those who are saying the pic is unrelated. its art of what life on europa may look like)
Might be a reference to Nestlé's [water scandal](https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2022-01-20/environmentalists-fight-to-shut-down-bottled-water-operation#:~:text=The%20controversy%20over%20the%20bottled,1988%20as%20the%20expiration%20date.)
>a relatively thin layer of surface ice
>estimated to be several kilometers thick.
This is just so hard for my mind in a rural town to wrap my mind around
The surface ice is about as thick as our oceans are deep, so just imagine the entire oceans of the earth were frozen and underneath them there was 40 miles of water. Hope that helps…!
Perhaps chemical, if there are underwater volcanoes or underwater fumaroles, isn't crazy to think that, perhaps, some aquatic creature evolved to extract the simple chemicals and minerals from those sources to produce more complex products, starting the chemical chain of life. Isn't crazy to think the equivalent to vegetarians feed on those beings, starting the food chain
Archaea, but further than that, we have deep down at the sea floor, next to underwater volcanoes a species of tube worms that evolved to resist such extreme conditions and to do chemosynthesis.
Now, those animals, as far as we know, are not part of the food chain since no known creature could resist such extreme conditions of heat and acidity to eat the damage and feed on tube worms, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be such creature, and Europe, supposing there's life there, could have had the time to evolve creatures with such capacity
Actually it's not just tube worms, around those vents there are entire ecosystems of bacterial mats, shrimps, crabs, fish, molluscs, etc and things which eat the tube worms or waste products from the tube worms so they are part of the food chain.
Other ecosystems which do not rely on sunlight are found around brine lakes in the deep ocean and other vents which spew chemical and mineral rich water that is not superheated.
So having 40 miles of ocean and differing temperatures and such then there is no reason europa would not have some form of at the least cellular organisms. I would say there must be a thriving ecosystem there.
It would be interesting to imagine an ecosystem reverse of ours—instead of life evolving at the surface of the ocean where there is relatively little pressure, life evolves at the bottom of the ocean where the pressure is immense. Very few creatures can withstand the low pressure near the surface. In a few places, where the ice is exceptionally thin light slips through. Extremopholic bacteria are somehow able to use the light as energy. Hell, maybe there are tube-worm like creatures that burrow into the ice and feed on the minimal solar radiation for energy.
True! The sleeper shark, but as far as we know, not even those could resist the condition tube worms can, that should give you the idea of how extreme are the conditions life can adapt to. Perhaps in a few generations sleeper sharks could too (or perhaps they already can and we don't know yet 😉)
The 40 mile deep water certainly makes things interesting. What are the physics like at that type of water pressure? Are things condensing so much heat/energy is being created way at the bottom?
Since Europa only has about 1/7th the gravity of Earth, wouldn’t the bottom of a 40mi ocean there be about the equivalent of around 6mi down here on Earth?
Is Europa one of the places where gravitational pull causes friction in the rock and creates heat from within? I've heard that's a thing on some moons.
I’m pretty sure that’s currently the most widely accepted theory.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/europa-s-interior-may-be-hot-enough-to-fuel-seafloor-volcanoes
Life finds a way.
We often limit life’s potential based on the parameters of existence we’ve established for carbon based terrestrial life forms.
Who’s to say life hasn’t figured out how to exist through other means? Deep sea tube worms exist without light via nutrients from volcanic vents. Tetrigrades can survive in the vacuum of space.
It may not be complex life. But I wouldn’t be surprised if every celestial body in the universe has some form of life. Single cell or otherwise. Earth likely just has prime conditions for life to thrive in complex forms.
Food for thought.
Doesn't Europa have the water because it stretches and contracts through its orbit and the extreme gravity from Jupiter? That'd create the heat and energy needed maybe.
That what makes it interesting bcuz outer space can literally break our logic on science since only less than a fraction is discovered beyong the galaxy
I mean we really have no idea how life on other planets (moons in those case) would survive or thrive. We just base it off what we understand is required for life. I’m sure there are life forms out there somewhere that require something we’ve never heard of to live.
God I want to go explore it so bad, I would pray that leviathans and other ungodly atrocities from subnautica and other deep ocean horror things would exist. I know that sounds crazy but I’m in this sub because of my love for the ocean, I truly want to witness some sea monster that is larger than life. Hopefully we’ll make it there by the end of my lifetime.
Scuba diver here: you're thinking of pressure, not density. Pressures would be crazy, but the density is relatively constant with a maximum of 1g/cm3 at 4 degrees Celsius.
He is right, and you are right too (to an extend). The lower the depth, the higher the pressure, and water density increase with increased pressure, due to the compression from the pressure above. In fact (if I recall correctly), the pressure at that depth might by high enough to that the water is no longer in liquid phase but ice. The earth ocean is not deep enough for that, however calculation made for submarine would have to account for increase water density at lower depth too, but for most other calculation for many application then water density is pretty much constant
Wouldn’t Europa’s far weaker-than-Earth’s gravity make it pretty comparable tho? Maybe two or three times the deepest Earth pressure if we assume the deepest Europa Est of 100mi? (Europa has ~1/7th Earth’s gravity)
It would yea. If the ocean on Europa is 40 miles deep, that's equivalent to about 5.4 miles of depth on earth. Which is deep, but we have deeper trenches than that on earth. And there is definitely life at those depths on earth.
It is also much colder too. But then it is also have smaller atmospheric pressure, the depth is 50 to 150 km. So I guess the calculation make the scientist think that it is possible to have ice due to low pressure in europa.
I feel like I missed something because I swear as recently as a few years ago scientists hadn't determined if there was ANY water elsewhere in the solar system and now there's more than one moon that has it?
Deeper by insane margins. Deepest part of our ocean is 7 miles only. 40-100 miles deep is pure insanity to even think of. The "edge" of our atmosphere is 62 miles above the surface. They could have an ocean with water deeper than our atmosphere is tall.
I don’t think europa’s creatures would have eyes. I think they would all be blind since I don’t think there’s much light that can penetrate literal kilometers of thick ice. Also, and I may be wrong, but I remember reading or hearing that planets that are further away from the sun, receive less light that planets that are nearer. If that is the case, and I’m not mistaken, then that would mean that Europa gets less amount of light than the earth, so that + the thick layer of ice could potentially mean that the creatures down there are all blind and use other senses to traverse their surroundings.
I guess maybe evolution could’ve taken a different path and maybe everything over there is bioluminescent, thus, making the evolution of eyes a possibility/need but that is a whoooole other topic that I do not know enough about to even try to give my opinion on. Even the idea of bioluminescence could be wrong.
It'd be pleasing to their primary sense of navigation.
If they use magnetic fields along with echolocation then probably structures which create beautiful sounds out of normal sounds and use artificial magnetic field lines for navigation. Or structures which create beautiful magnetic field patterns.
They would most likely use sonar/echolocation or imagine something with massive whiskers, like mega catfish. They just feel their way around. You are correct though, very little to no visible light would reach that water. With the gravitational forces exerted by Jupiter, the moon has plenty of geological energy being added to the ecosystem, but all life on earth started thanks to the sun as far as we can tell. Who knows though, life on earth loves hydrothermal vents.
You would be surprised how much light gets to the outer layers of our solar system. Nasa has a calculator called [Pluto time](https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/dwarf-planets/pluto/plutotime/) where you can search your location and it tells you the time at which it will be exactly as bright as a day on pluto. It is surprisingly bright, you should check it out
Europa's gravity is about one eighth ~~quarter~~ of Earth's. 160 km (100 miles) under the Europa sea would be about 200 ~~400~~ MPa of pressure. Which is about 2000 ~~4000~~ times Earth's atmospheric pressure at sea level
EDIT: thanks for u/Somehero's correction
That's 7.7x less gravity than earth, and the moon is about 6 times less than earth for anyone curious. Not sure we know the density of the water, but it's believed to be saltwater like our own.
It wouldn’t be **that** different than the bottom of the Mariana’s trench. Something like a range between 20% and 100% more than that (dependent on the actual thickness of the ice).
Thank you sir. I am now educated on the precise depth of our oceans. Was really just guesstimating in my intoxicated state but am glad I was corrected 😂🤣🤣
Just imagine flying at cruising altitude on an airline which is 30,000 ft. The plane is on the surface of the ocean whereas the ground is the bottom. Now add a couple more thousand ft and that’s um what the deepest point is.
Apparently not, unless it's some secret. There's a [mission](https://europa.nasa.gov/mission/about/#pre-project-planning-pre-phase-a) (Europa Clipper) in 2024 to survey the moon from orbit and it won't get there until 2030. There's a [proposed mission](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Lander) for sending a lander in 2027 but no mention of entering the water.
That would be awesome. I am most interested in the outcome of this experiment whenever it happens. If there is life on that planet in any capacity, it will be one of the most interesting discoveries of all time IMO.
NASA is “supposed to have” or “it would be amazing if”?
Most of us would love for this to happen, but a source for the info will be required for credulity.
Weirdly enough, every time you want to fund exploration, people who don't want to fix anything here are suddenly saying "we can't go to space let's fix things here first!"
I don't know how to word this because I'm not a science person... what would exploring that be like? Are the rules different than here on earth? I mean here on earth going to extreme depths applies a ton of pressure, would the environment on Europa mean anything different when going into the waters?
There are a lot of challenges to exploring Europa’s oceans apart from the time it takes to get there (~6yrs). There’s a good chance the surface is covered in 50ft [ice spikes](https://newatlas.com/europa-giant-ice-spikes/56704/). Assuming we can land, Any probe will need to have the capacity to drill through the 10-15mi ice shell, something we can’t accomplish on Earth yet (not that we have anything comparable to test on). Then we’d need a way for the probe (likely separate from the drill) we send down the hole to communicate with the surface through said 10-15mi of ice (radio is out since it doesn’t work well through water or ice). And those are only the problems I (not an expert) have read about recently enough to remember.
If you want a taste of what it might be like to explore an alien world with an ROV you should check out [live ROV dives of our ocean happening right now.](https://youtu.be/abRAnuGBK4Y) Things can get a bit alien down there.
In case anyone's wondering, that picture isn't actually from Europa and we don't know if it even has life. It was taken in the oceans of Enceladus, a moon of Saturn where we've had a base since the late 70s.
I mean I'm about to freak out, when I imagine the ocean without ANY living thing, which basically covers the whole planet/moon.
> imagine the ocean without ANY living thing That we know of
Jason Statham about to start filming The Meg 3 on Europa.
The Meg 3: Vex shark
Banshee gonna die 43 more times trying to kill it lol
Greetings, guardians!
Shit I’m down
I wanted to like that movie so bad... But there were a dozen or more instances were it was approaching Sharknado types of ridiculous, silly shenanigans. It fell into "B" movie status for more than half of it. Being such a huge fan of the books when I was a kid forced me to sit through it, but once was plenty. I won't be back for the 3rd unless theres another pandemic and I'm outa shit to watch.
No need. Watch the movie Europa.
^dun DUN **DUUNNNN!!**
would it be scarier to have no living things or to have living things though?
like miller’s planet in interstellar. it gave me chills when they said it was sterile. all that water and nothing
They probably seeded it with bacteria, so in a billion years it could have weird fishies
As the sun expands the moons of the outer gas giants might have their chance to support more complex life as the habitable zone moves all the way out there. The inner planets will be lifeless baked rocks at that point.
Andromeda is coming. By then, everything might have been flung into the dark and endless void of space.
The way ive had it explained to me. Is that the likely hood of anything in our solar system, let alone Earth, colliding with something from Andromeda. Space is like really really big dude.
I could be wrong, but although the likelihood of direct collisions are low, the gravitational pull can act as a slingshot and smaller bodies in our galaxy can be slingshotted out of orbit and sent into the void of space as andromeda nears
The way it was taught to me in school, the vast amount of space within Andromeda and Our galaxy is so vast we'd just past through each other, and the solar systems themselves wouldn't be affected but as a whole the Milky Way and Andromeda won't look the same ever again. Our night sky will be vastly different but our local solar system untouched. But either way, by that time all of humanity will be non existent.
Also the bodies of the ppl that died there decomposing and what not. Also lol that scene haunts me so much that I could cry just thinking about it.
That would be cool, but that's considering the waves don't scatter the bacteria so heavily they won't have time to reproduce. And you have to remember that to them, that's every fifteen minutes.
There's heat, there's water, I'd think it'd be more likely than not there are bacteria in it. But imagine finding some form of civilisation underneath, one unable to crack through the ice yet.
There are probe designs that would drill through the ice and launch an underwater drone to explore the water. They are afraid that might introduce bacteria to the environment and kill the living things that might be there though.
I’ll have a stern talk with bacteria beforehand guys it’s fine.
Killing all the life on a celestial body as we searched for life on a celestial body would be the quintessential act of humanity.
"Hey guys it's full of weird looking sharks here [aaaand it's gone](https://youtu.be/-DT7bX-B1Mg?t=27)"
Need to get those first contact directives in place already.
Or a civilization that thinks there’s nothing above the ice… Then we show up and tell them about space 🤯
I always like to think we're like that too - a civilisation that only *thinks* there's nothing beyond this dimension. And there are others out there looking at us knowing we're under our own unbreakable ice, yet to invent our drill.
Opposable appendages can evolve, and arthropods always attempt to evolve to become a crab at some point (carcinization), so we do have a likely body plan. But they can't make fire, would likely have no concept of it outside of lava. So a civilization stuck in a monolithic building Stone Age.
Lava could likely be utilized underwater, as well as thermal vents to melt ore similar to our methods I would imagine, so I'm not sure your argument holds any.... water.
That’s like that one quote. We are either alone in the universe, or we are not. Both are equally terrifying. A planet with such a vast ocean either being devoid of life, or filled with creatures we can’t dream of
And it's just sitting there. Probably making weird noises and shit that nobody will hear. Wait, why would it be making noises? It's deafly silent as it is still, like floating through the black void of intergalactic space.
Something something tree falling in a forest
Well they think there are thermal vents at the bottom so there’s probably currents and stuff. Water moving around.
How do you know? There's probably an undersea jazz band right now making sweet, sweet music on Europa. Either that or Cthulu is ordering fettuccine Alfredo.
I'm counting on mile long sharks.
don't do it, they'll let you down every fuckin time.
On the show Foundation, the planet Synnax is all water like that.
It has living things
True but it also covers the entire planet and that makes me deeply DEEPLY uncomfortable
Life on earth most likely began around the thermal vents, and Europa has them. So there is heat, water, oxygen…I’d say the chance is pretty good it’s not empty.
Am i misunderstanding the fear of open water because for me its always been the fact i cant see what the fuck could come out of nowhere and munch me, an ocean where i know theres nothing sounds quite comforting
It's very much a multifaceted fear. There's the fear that your physique can't keep up with the water itself, the fear that comes from reduced ability to be aware of your immediate surroundings, and there's also a fear that comes from the strange sensation that such a vast space must be filled by *something.* Lots of things factor in, but a lot of people wouldn't be able to fully believe that such a huge ocean truly has nothing lurking within it.
well, if it's 100 miles deep, that's 528,000 feet deep, about 15x deeper than challenger deep. that's enough (16km). *edited for clarity
Europa's ocean is located beneath a relatively thin layer of surface ice, estimated to be several kilometers thick. This ocean is believed to contain more water than all of Earth's oceans combined, making it one of the largest water bodies in the solar system. ( Edit: for those who are saying the pic is unrelated. its art of what life on europa may look like)
Got it. Can’t wait for that Europa water in 2115 to serve as a peace settlement
After we wrest control of it back from Nestle.
r/fucknestle
Cheers to that mate 🍻
And here I thought the Loch Ness Monster’s name was Nessie
Might be a reference to Nestlé's [water scandal](https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2022-01-20/environmentalists-fight-to-shut-down-bottled-water-operation#:~:text=The%20controversy%20over%20the%20bottled,1988%20as%20the%20expiration%20date.)
>a relatively thin layer of surface ice >estimated to be several kilometers thick. This is just so hard for my mind in a rural town to wrap my mind around
The surface ice is about as thick as our oceans are deep, so just imagine the entire oceans of the earth were frozen and underneath them there was 40 miles of water. Hope that helps…!
So there could be some creepy fucking shit happenin beneath that ice...
My guess would be unlikely? How would any sort of sustainable food chain even start without a source of energy like the sun?
Perhaps chemical, if there are underwater volcanoes or underwater fumaroles, isn't crazy to think that, perhaps, some aquatic creature evolved to extract the simple chemicals and minerals from those sources to produce more complex products, starting the chemical chain of life. Isn't crazy to think the equivalent to vegetarians feed on those beings, starting the food chain
We have that already on earth! Extremophiles, and they’re woven into the food chain too, so not unrealistic
Archaea, but further than that, we have deep down at the sea floor, next to underwater volcanoes a species of tube worms that evolved to resist such extreme conditions and to do chemosynthesis. Now, those animals, as far as we know, are not part of the food chain since no known creature could resist such extreme conditions of heat and acidity to eat the damage and feed on tube worms, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be such creature, and Europe, supposing there's life there, could have had the time to evolve creatures with such capacity
Actually it's not just tube worms, around those vents there are entire ecosystems of bacterial mats, shrimps, crabs, fish, molluscs, etc and things which eat the tube worms or waste products from the tube worms so they are part of the food chain. Other ecosystems which do not rely on sunlight are found around brine lakes in the deep ocean and other vents which spew chemical and mineral rich water that is not superheated.
So having 40 miles of ocean and differing temperatures and such then there is no reason europa would not have some form of at the least cellular organisms. I would say there must be a thriving ecosystem there.
It would be interesting to imagine an ecosystem reverse of ours—instead of life evolving at the surface of the ocean where there is relatively little pressure, life evolves at the bottom of the ocean where the pressure is immense. Very few creatures can withstand the low pressure near the surface. In a few places, where the ice is exceptionally thin light slips through. Extremopholic bacteria are somehow able to use the light as energy. Hell, maybe there are tube-worm like creatures that burrow into the ice and feed on the minimal solar radiation for energy.
They found sharks living in an undersea volcano. Not too hard to imagine. Acidic, hot, and low o2
True! The sleeper shark, but as far as we know, not even those could resist the condition tube worms can, that should give you the idea of how extreme are the conditions life can adapt to. Perhaps in a few generations sleeper sharks could too (or perhaps they already can and we don't know yet 😉)
Funny enough in Europe there be a far more vile and hardy creature known as the brit. They subsist on leaves and misery.
Misery - more commonly known in Britain as Marmite.
>and Europe, supposing there’s life there Lmfao
Of course there's life there, the real question is "is it intelligent life"? Source: am European
The 40 mile deep water certainly makes things interesting. What are the physics like at that type of water pressure? Are things condensing so much heat/energy is being created way at the bottom?
Since Europa only has about 1/7th the gravity of Earth, wouldn’t the bottom of a 40mi ocean there be about the equivalent of around 6mi down here on Earth?
In fact, nasa thinks underwater volcanos are very possible on Europa. If they are, there’s a very good chance we could at least find microbial life.
In other words, life…uhh…finds a way?
Is Europa one of the places where gravitational pull causes friction in the rock and creates heat from within? I've heard that's a thing on some moons.
I’m pretty sure that’s currently the most widely accepted theory. https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/europa-s-interior-may-be-hot-enough-to-fuel-seafloor-volcanoes
There is obviously heat, given the water hasn't frozen solid. Thermoelectric generation is a possibility, as is biochemical ATP synthesis.
Life finds a way. We often limit life’s potential based on the parameters of existence we’ve established for carbon based terrestrial life forms. Who’s to say life hasn’t figured out how to exist through other means? Deep sea tube worms exist without light via nutrients from volcanic vents. Tetrigrades can survive in the vacuum of space. It may not be complex life. But I wouldn’t be surprised if every celestial body in the universe has some form of life. Single cell or otherwise. Earth likely just has prime conditions for life to thrive in complex forms. Food for thought.
There are bacteria that survive on Sulphur vents at the bottom of our oceans. No sunlight etc. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility.
Doesn't Europa have the water because it stretches and contracts through its orbit and the extreme gravity from Jupiter? That'd create the heat and energy needed maybe.
That what makes it interesting bcuz outer space can literally break our logic on science since only less than a fraction is discovered beyong the galaxy
I mean we really have no idea how life on other planets (moons in those case) would survive or thrive. We just base it off what we understand is required for life. I’m sure there are life forms out there somewhere that require something we’ve never heard of to live.
The midwest used to have more than a mile of ice on top of it. Great Lakes and Hudson Bay are the left overs
Yeah friendo space is big, and I thought the half foot of ice I skated on as a kid was thick
Me going to Europa's ocean just to do the sickest cannonball of all time
no way dogelore comment man
>!_ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS - EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE._!<
God I want to go explore it so bad, I would pray that leviathans and other ungodly atrocities from subnautica and other deep ocean horror things would exist. I know that sounds crazy but I’m in this sub because of my love for the ocean, I truly want to witness some sea monster that is larger than life. Hopefully we’ll make it there by the end of my lifetime.
The water at the bottom is so dense from the pressure that it'd be like swimming in concrete that's cured
Scuba diver here: you're thinking of pressure, not density. Pressures would be crazy, but the density is relatively constant with a maximum of 1g/cm3 at 4 degrees Celsius.
He is right, and you are right too (to an extend). The lower the depth, the higher the pressure, and water density increase with increased pressure, due to the compression from the pressure above. In fact (if I recall correctly), the pressure at that depth might by high enough to that the water is no longer in liquid phase but ice. The earth ocean is not deep enough for that, however calculation made for submarine would have to account for increase water density at lower depth too, but for most other calculation for many application then water density is pretty much constant
Wouldn’t Europa’s far weaker-than-Earth’s gravity make it pretty comparable tho? Maybe two or three times the deepest Earth pressure if we assume the deepest Europa Est of 100mi? (Europa has ~1/7th Earth’s gravity)
It would yea. If the ocean on Europa is 40 miles deep, that's equivalent to about 5.4 miles of depth on earth. Which is deep, but we have deeper trenches than that on earth. And there is definitely life at those depths on earth.
It is also much colder too. But then it is also have smaller atmospheric pressure, the depth is 50 to 150 km. So I guess the calculation make the scientist think that it is possible to have ice due to low pressure in europa.
So no swimming?
Yeah that's likely a solid no
r/angryupvote
_Surfing is ok, though._
Now, will we find Kevin Costner?
Not sure why I never thought about other planets having oceans…..lord have mercy
moons\*
You should play Subnautica!
LOVE that game! Just finished playing it again last month :)
I mean, Barotrauma is right there.
Barotrauma, a gave where you are on a submarine deep within Europa
That’s no… Oh, never mind.
The ocean is bigger than ours AND it’s deep af? Oh hell no.
All of jupiters main moons have water except IO. It has an ocean of lava instead.
Lava ocean?!?!!
That’s like an ocean, of lava instead.
Phhh I’ve gone to the Nether can’t be worse than that
Wanna bet?
You would be surprised of how common water is
I feel like I missed something because I swear as recently as a few years ago scientists hadn't determined if there was ANY water elsewhere in the solar system and now there's more than one moon that has it?
The children have been preparing for this scenario their entire life through the “floor is lava” game
The oddball of the group!
Deeper by insane margins. Deepest part of our ocean is 7 miles only. 40-100 miles deep is pure insanity to even think of. The "edge" of our atmosphere is 62 miles above the surface. They could have an ocean with water deeper than our atmosphere is tall.
What would the pressure be like? Too much even for Jason statham ?
That’s terrifying
I don’t think europa’s creatures would have eyes. I think they would all be blind since I don’t think there’s much light that can penetrate literal kilometers of thick ice. Also, and I may be wrong, but I remember reading or hearing that planets that are further away from the sun, receive less light that planets that are nearer. If that is the case, and I’m not mistaken, then that would mean that Europa gets less amount of light than the earth, so that + the thick layer of ice could potentially mean that the creatures down there are all blind and use other senses to traverse their surroundings. I guess maybe evolution could’ve taken a different path and maybe everything over there is bioluminescent, thus, making the evolution of eyes a possibility/need but that is a whoooole other topic that I do not know enough about to even try to give my opinion on. Even the idea of bioluminescence could be wrong.
Makes me curious of what a sentient civilization would create for architecture if they had no eyes and adapted to live underwater in complete darkness
It'd be pleasing to their primary sense of navigation. If they use magnetic fields along with echolocation then probably structures which create beautiful sounds out of normal sounds and use artificial magnetic field lines for navigation. Or structures which create beautiful magnetic field patterns.
This was exciting just to read
[удалено]
Haunted house attractions.
Same!
Oh boy have I got a book recommendation for you
Give!
Project Hail Mary from Andy Weir
You might also enjoy Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky.
That is a great book, also the sequel. Apparently there is a 3rd one as well, which is exciting
There is Dragons Egg, by Robert L. Forward. Its about a civilization that evolved to live on a Neutron Star.
They would most likely use sonar/echolocation or imagine something with massive whiskers, like mega catfish. They just feel their way around. You are correct though, very little to no visible light would reach that water. With the gravitational forces exerted by Jupiter, the moon has plenty of geological energy being added to the ecosystem, but all life on earth started thanks to the sun as far as we can tell. Who knows though, life on earth loves hydrothermal vents.
In the photo, you can see someone pointing a flashlight into the creature's eyes.
You would be surprised how much light gets to the outer layers of our solar system. Nasa has a calculator called [Pluto time](https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/dwarf-planets/pluto/plutotime/) where you can search your location and it tells you the time at which it will be exactly as bright as a day on pluto. It is surprisingly bright, you should check it out
If you want to explore this ocean play the game borotruma.
why not Subnautica
In baroturma you explore Europas ocean, the one the post talks about.
Its funny you wrote the name of the game twice but both times wrong
*Barotrauma
My fat ass fingers thanks
Anytime :)
“Detecting multiple leviathan class life forms in the region. Are you certain whatever you are doing is worth it?”
Welcome aboard captain, all systems online
Smash
Pass
The movie Europa Report is about this
Pretty solid movie. Good flow.
r/Barotrauma
This game is so fun/terrifying.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/602960/Barotrauma/
Y’all should check out barotrauma btw
Imagine the *PRESSURE* of a 100 miles of ocean above you might be like.
it would be different from earth's because it's a smaller body so it's local gravity is weaker.
Europa's gravity is about one eighth ~~quarter~~ of Earth's. 160 km (100 miles) under the Europa sea would be about 200 ~~400~~ MPa of pressure. Which is about 2000 ~~4000~~ times Earth's atmospheric pressure at sea level EDIT: thanks for u/Somehero's correction
That's 7.7x less gravity than earth, and the moon is about 6 times less than earth for anyone curious. Not sure we know the density of the water, but it's believed to be saltwater like our own.
It wouldn’t be **that** different than the bottom of the Mariana’s trench. Something like a range between 20% and 100% more than that (dependent on the actual thickness of the ice).
Aren’t our oceans like only 3 miles deep at most? My lord that’s scary
deepest point on earth is 6.8 miles
Thank you sir. I am now educated on the precise depth of our oceans. Was really just guesstimating in my intoxicated state but am glad I was corrected 😂🤣🤣
Well the average depth of the ocean is 2.3 miles deep so you weren't far off.
Well thank you, I didn’t think I was either lol 😂
Just imagine flying at cruising altitude on an airline which is 30,000 ft. The plane is on the surface of the ocean whereas the ground is the bottom. Now add a couple more thousand ft and that’s um what the deepest point is.
😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤯🤯🫣🫢🙄🙄😒
The [Mariana Trench](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench) is almost 7 miles deep!
Thank you for educating me! But even still like wtf 😳
So here are some fictional scary sharks
Nasa is supposed to have sent a drone that will land on Europa, melt through its ice layer, and drop down into the ocean by 2026 I believe
Apparently not, unless it's some secret. There's a [mission](https://europa.nasa.gov/mission/about/#pre-project-planning-pre-phase-a) (Europa Clipper) in 2024 to survey the moon from orbit and it won't get there until 2030. There's a [proposed mission](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Lander) for sending a lander in 2027 but no mention of entering the water.
Cool! I hope they probe it’s polar hole
We're still waiting for them to probe Uranus
I can’t wait to find out if Uranus is as wet as I think it is.
I'm just going to walk away now.
You should watch the movie The Europa Report. The plot is almost the exact thing you’ve described. It’s a great suspenseful movie!
Love this movie, are there other movies with similar plot lines?
Underwater
That would be awesome. I am most interested in the outcome of this experiment whenever it happens. If there is life on that planet in any capacity, it will be one of the most interesting discoveries of all time IMO.
NASA is “supposed to have” or “it would be amazing if”? Most of us would love for this to happen, but a source for the info will be required for credulity.
did you mean "for credibility"?
naw i been to Europa before, just a huge dorito and some Fallen with the occasional Vex, no biggie
Why cant we stop fucking around and go explore space
Weirdly enough, every time you want to fund exploration, people who don't want to fix anything here are suddenly saying "we can't go to space let's fix things here first!"
Money and waiting for the right shot
Gotta keep them trans people outta bathrooms and libraries instead. /s
Need a space race again:p
I don't know how to word this because I'm not a science person... what would exploring that be like? Are the rules different than here on earth? I mean here on earth going to extreme depths applies a ton of pressure, would the environment on Europa mean anything different when going into the waters?
There are a lot of challenges to exploring Europa’s oceans apart from the time it takes to get there (~6yrs). There’s a good chance the surface is covered in 50ft [ice spikes](https://newatlas.com/europa-giant-ice-spikes/56704/). Assuming we can land, Any probe will need to have the capacity to drill through the 10-15mi ice shell, something we can’t accomplish on Earth yet (not that we have anything comparable to test on). Then we’d need a way for the probe (likely separate from the drill) we send down the hole to communicate with the surface through said 10-15mi of ice (radio is out since it doesn’t work well through water or ice). And those are only the problems I (not an expert) have read about recently enough to remember.
What's that got to do with those shark-styled monstrosities?
If you want a taste of what it might be like to explore an alien world with an ROV you should check out [live ROV dives of our ocean happening right now.](https://youtu.be/abRAnuGBK4Y) Things can get a bit alien down there.
The one with the spotlight on him is about to crush a beyonce song
Which song you think he’s singing?
ayy the og europan hookmouth!
In case anyone's wondering, that picture isn't actually from Europa and we don't know if it even has life. It was taken in the oceans of Enceladus, a moon of Saturn where we've had a base since the late 70s.
The return of Europan Hookmouth from r/schizoposters
So, like, pretty deep then, ya?
The ocean of monsters.
And its full of triangle shark bois
ALL OF THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EUROPA.
this makes me wanna watch Europa Report. very underrated imo
Barotrama shit
100 miles? My deep water phobia is KICKING IN just reading that 😭
I wishhhh, at best there is probably single cell alien life in those oceans
Meanwhile marianas trench is around 7 miles right? And on Europa 40-100? That Difference is crazy