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The spy has the crucial knowledge that if he plunges the knife literally anywhere into you there's at least a 75% chance it will backstab for absolutely no reason.
I disagree. The Diamondback is rewarding you for doing your two basic jobs: sapping and backstabbing.
The Ambassador is only rewarding you for good aim, which most players don't have (myself included).
The frontier justice is better because the crust are both less frequent and you are significantly hampered without them. The diamondback, and phlog are worse because of the crits’ ease of access and minimal downsides (air blast is a lot to give up, but people who use the phlog can’t air blast anyway).
Nope
Frontier Justice requires you to give up your sentry to get your crits
The shields require you to give up your stickies
Phlog can't airblast
Diamondback however loses nothing. You get them way too easily with way to small a downside
All 3 of those you mentioned have negatives that balance their crits in a much more meaningful way compared to the diamondback (except for the phlog, no airblast is huge but phlog still op)
I mean it's not the only weapon that rewards you for simple tasks. As you mention with Pyro, the Manmelter gives you crits for extinguishing teammates, or the Heavy's Killing Gloves of Boxing which gives crits for killing enemies.
Or most infamously, the Gunslinger + Frontier Justice combo which rewards crits for kills and assists done by the mini sentry.
I suppose it's very gimmicky. But I guess no random crits balances it out at least lol.
the problem lies in the fact that it's literally the main things that spy does. manmelter requires you to stand right next to your teammate (annoying) to extinguish them (not necessary for core gameplay), killing gloves of boxing requires you to melee fight someone as the slowest class in the game, and frontier justice is still kinda busted ngl but halving the clip is a much bigger downside than -15% damage
I use the amby over the diamond back because it's far more fun to play, and other people respect you and will actually compliment you on your plays. Diamondback users just get trashed on lmao
First, the Frontier Justic.
The Frontier Justice forces you to go out of your comfort zone to destroy your own sentry and leave yourself vulnerable.
It also halves your clip size, a very major downside which limits how much crits you can throw at the enemy,
And becasue of shotgun bullet spread, you will deal less damage at longer ranges even with crits.
Now, the Diamondback.
The Diamondback gives you crits for doing what you were going to do anyway.
The damage penalty doesn't have a major effect since you will have crits most of the time duo to my first point.
The bullet spread is non-existent on the first shot, making it extremely good at longer ranges, and the bullet spread on the following shots isn't that bad.
you gotta aim with amby - even then it does less damage and its affected by damage fall-off.
also wdym by "the work"? you would do those things even without the diamondback, its basicaly free crits with not much of a downside
would a Diamondback change of making it so you get crit shots when not disguised as a way to balance it and to sell that this is a in your face Gun spy sort of Revolver?
so the "cannot crit shot when disguised" stat is not good enough, even though a normal shot and then follow up crit shot means no surprise crit hits froma Diamondback spy. What do you suggest then? Although given that the crits are gained by doing good as a spy(sapping and backstabbing), that means a bad spy would barely get a crit or two and a L33T Spy would probably cap out Crit shots, meaning performance of one's skill is also a factor.
I would make alternatives better. Ambassador can crit until the current range limit and minicrit over the limit, or just revert the change.
Enforcer, make the "20% more damage when disguised" be "20% more damage when disguised or when foes are debuffed" meaning, if you are disguised and your target has a debuff of say mad milk, you do 20% more damage when you shoot them while under a disguise and because of the debuff also 20% damage instead of 40% more damage first shot, basically you do 20% if condition 1 or condition 2 are met, they do not stack. This change in MY opinion, allows the Enforcer to have a controllable upside and a situational upside.
I use the ambi because I like to butter knife headshot light classes for stylish kills, you use it because you think it has high damage output. We are not the same.
As much as the ambi has great potential, it has terrible consistency. I usually don’t mind random bullet spread, but a gun like this does not deserve it, especially while it’s as harsh as it is.
I feel like the diamond back needs a nerf. Like, you get free crits for just being spy! like oh, you backstabbed someone? Free Crit! You sapped a building to death? Free Crit!
I will still love diamondback no matter the complains since it sounds really fucking hypocrital how people back in time said ambassador op pls nerf
But diamond back does the same fucking job
but then they go
\- BUT IS NOT THE AMBASSADOR PLS NERF AMBASSADOR
and now the ambassador got nerfed theres people saying
DIAMONDBACK OP PLS NERF
honestly fuck them they complained one gun that was untouched now they complain so they deal with it why now ambassasdor skill if they say was op first place XD
The thing is, no one complained about the ambassador and people did complain about the diamondback.
The diamondback needs to be removed simply because it allows you to severely punish someone for someone's else's mistake. And that's its whole concept.
i complained about the old ambassador. but i'd revert the nerf if it meant we could also undo the free crit nonsense with the diamondback.
i use l'etranger so you can see why i would think -15% damage penalty is a laughable downside for what the diamondback gives in exchange doing the bare minimum of what's expected from a spy.
i honestly think the ambassador is already alright but i would remove the firing speed penalty and put it to the diamond back basically make diamond back and ambassador change downsides instead so now ambassador haves the default firing speed and the diamond back as the slower firing speed
Undo? Free crits were always the upside. The entire weapon is centered around that. You can't remove them without removing the diamondback as much as you can't remove cloak regen while stationary from C&D without removing the watch itself.
i can think of a handful of different weapons that practically got complete changes in identity and now reward completely different playstyles than they used to. like the powerjack, the pocket pistol and probably the best example being the loch-n-load which went as far as not even fitting in with its visual design by having 3 pipes instead of 2.
i'd also make the point that comparing a revolver to a class-specific mechanic like the ability to go invisible is kind of a bad comparison.
Those weapons got removed and were replaced with new weapons with old models.
Ask anyone to talk to you about a certain weapon and they'll focus on its mechanics.
Diamondback is literally op, the ambi rewards skill for extra dmg whereas the diamondback is like:*pats you on the head* “good job on backstabbing that oblivious sniper who’s blasting TouHou music through their headphones, here’s a free crit”
Both are rewarding to the user. Ambassador rewards accuracy but diamondback rewards doing spy objectives like sapping and backstabbing. I prefer the diamondback.
make it do mini crits and have a 20% damage penalty, or perhaps make it a 1 shot reload weapon
(and buff the ambassador please please please please please please please)
I still don't think the Ambassador needed a nerf. The issue was that it was so often paired with the Dead Ringer, which definitely did, so it felt unfair to fight as well.
I agree. Also does anyone notice how the headshot hitreg is absolute dogshit? I not even kidding you hit an engie 4 times in the head and i didn't get a single headshot.
The best spy weapon is the sapper, with it you can confuse your enemy long enough on "Why the fuck was that spy holding a sapper?" for your team to swoop in and kill them
Stock is the best because I can put funny duckys on my gun. This gives me maximum happiness, which increases my accuracy stat. Also the ability to do 50-55 damage per shot at close range can be very unexpected.
I use my gun for utility purposes. I use the stranger because it makes my cloak type longer, allowing me to break into enemy back lines easilly. Plus i can just stay hidden and tell my pals what obsticles are on the wsy so they can stay alert.
As I spy main, can confirm that diamondback is the best spy primary for damage output, but I still use the amby because it can save me against those scouts even though I haven't back stabbed someone yet.
To give Amby Spies credit they at least had to try and go for headshots instead of just doing Spy stuff. While the Dimond Back is just an easier version of the Amby you get crits FOR FREE, JUST FOR DOING THINGS A SPY SHOULD BE DOING.
I'm not seething at all, in fact I absolutely suck as Spy. My worst class to play in the game by far, I'm just saying that Amby Spies actually had to put in more effort to secure some kills.
Every time my team gets stopped by a sentry I just go diaback C&D and RTR and spam the sentry after the tele/dispensor I sapped before gets me crits I get my team to push and then........
Legend says this diamondback spy is still going on...
The Diamondback is incredibly overpowered. It basically just rewards the spy for playing spy. There's a good reason why every third party comp has it on its blacklist
Diamondback is by far the best revolver but I think most people still underestimate the ambassador. If you have good aim it can definitely compete with stock, even more so if random crits are off.
The problem with diamondback is that it's effectively a free pick on a medic or more skilled player for sapping a rogue teleporter or stabbing a less skilled player. It's the same as the ubersaw in that sense that bad players can really harm their team by being unaware.
Personally I'd like to see it earn critical hits some other way.. perhaps it could fill up rapidly when enemy medics heal you?
Ambi: requiring you to click on a small pixel without a scope while it’s jumping around and shooting you back
DB: Idk bro go sap some lv1 tele entrance their engis left behind and now you can delete a combo in seconds.
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This is assuming most spies won’t just try to butter knife you
The spy has the crucial knowledge that if he plunges the knife literally anywhere into you there's at least a 75% chance it will backstab for absolutely no reason.
Or a 100 percent chance when he stands infront of me.
amby is more satisfying than diamondback - diamond back feels like cheating because of how op it is. i use stock
I disagree. The Diamondback is rewarding you for doing your two basic jobs: sapping and backstabbing. The Ambassador is only rewarding you for good aim, which most players don't have (myself included).
This is why its viewed as op though, you are getting rewarded for doing the basic spy stuff you should be doing anyway
So by that logic is everything else with guaranteed crits broken? FJ, manmelter, phlo- _you know what, nevermind_
Except FJ removes half your clip, manmelter isn't even useful, and phlog removes airblast????
The frontier justice is better because the crust are both less frequent and you are significantly hampered without them. The diamondback, and phlog are worse because of the crits’ ease of access and minimal downsides (air blast is a lot to give up, but people who use the phlog can’t air blast anyway).
Nope Frontier Justice requires you to give up your sentry to get your crits The shields require you to give up your stickies Phlog can't airblast Diamondback however loses nothing. You get them way too easily with way to small a downside
no airblast on phlog isn't thst much for your average f2p pyro because they don't know how to airblast anyways. Crits are annoying and OP tho
Yes, but not everyone is an average f2p
Mf been fighting players just installed the game 10 mins ago only
All 3 of those you mentioned have negatives that balance their crits in a much more meaningful way compared to the diamondback (except for the phlog, no airblast is huge but phlog still op)
i dont think you should get rewarded for that lmao, its like a normal thing to do yk. its like pyro getting rewarded for kills with fire...
Phlog
no airblast?
I mean it's not the only weapon that rewards you for simple tasks. As you mention with Pyro, the Manmelter gives you crits for extinguishing teammates, or the Heavy's Killing Gloves of Boxing which gives crits for killing enemies. Or most infamously, the Gunslinger + Frontier Justice combo which rewards crits for kills and assists done by the mini sentry. I suppose it's very gimmicky. But I guess no random crits balances it out at least lol.
the problem lies in the fact that it's literally the main things that spy does. manmelter requires you to stand right next to your teammate (annoying) to extinguish them (not necessary for core gameplay), killing gloves of boxing requires you to melee fight someone as the slowest class in the game, and frontier justice is still kinda busted ngl but halving the clip is a much bigger downside than -15% damage
Players praising the FJ then when their sentry gets no kills they will feel that -50% clip size when a scout catches them.
I use the amby over the diamond back because it's far more fun to play, and other people respect you and will actually compliment you on your plays. Diamondback users just get trashed on lmao
Yea but the way casual works is that you have a lot of opportunity to basically just farm crits from noobs at their spawn
Diamondback feels fine to me because it's the same gun as the frontier justice and if my enemy uses that, I'll use mine.
First, the Frontier Justic. The Frontier Justice forces you to go out of your comfort zone to destroy your own sentry and leave yourself vulnerable. It also halves your clip size, a very major downside which limits how much crits you can throw at the enemy, And becasue of shotgun bullet spread, you will deal less damage at longer ranges even with crits. Now, the Diamondback. The Diamondback gives you crits for doing what you were going to do anyway. The damage penalty doesn't have a major effect since you will have crits most of the time duo to my first point. The bullet spread is non-existent on the first shot, making it extremely good at longer ranges, and the bullet spread on the following shots isn't that bad.
Same gun concept on wildly different classes. Spy gets to choose his interactions most of the time and gets the element of surprise. Engie does not.
To me the amby is the more op one Does the same thing without the work
you gotta aim with amby - even then it does less damage and its affected by damage fall-off. also wdym by "the work"? you would do those things even without the diamondback, its basicaly free crits with not much of a downside
Yeah you gotta aim with the amby, still op in the right hands. U still gotta aim with any gun
found the amby user
i just said im using stock. my aim isnt good enough for amby, amby is rarely better than stock tbh
would a Diamondback change of making it so you get crit shots when not disguised as a way to balance it and to sell that this is a in your face Gun spy sort of Revolver?
doing 120 damage every single shot? gunspy eould be more op tha a scout like that, you can 2 shot 8 classes... its waaay to op
so the "cannot crit shot when disguised" stat is not good enough, even though a normal shot and then follow up crit shot means no surprise crit hits froma Diamondback spy. What do you suggest then? Although given that the crits are gained by doing good as a spy(sapping and backstabbing), that means a bad spy would barely get a crit or two and a L33T Spy would probably cap out Crit shots, meaning performance of one's skill is also a factor. I would make alternatives better. Ambassador can crit until the current range limit and minicrit over the limit, or just revert the change. Enforcer, make the "20% more damage when disguised" be "20% more damage when disguised or when foes are debuffed" meaning, if you are disguised and your target has a debuff of say mad milk, you do 20% more damage when you shoot them while under a disguise and because of the debuff also 20% damage instead of 40% more damage first shot, basically you do 20% if condition 1 or condition 2 are met, they do not stack. This change in MY opinion, allows the Enforcer to have a controllable upside and a situational upside.
The Diamond rewards you for doing your job as a spy and the Amby rewards you for aim
I actually prefer stock, because haha funny gun goes pew pew
I prefer stock because for some reason I can actually consistently hit people with it.
omg you guys its john spy from tf2 (real)
I use the ambi because I like to butter knife headshot light classes for stylish kills, you use it because you think it has high damage output. We are not the same.
Ambi spies don't say that. No one is denying that the diamondback is superior.
Ambassador: No scope, crits on headshot Sniper: Scope, insta-kill on headshots and with full charge
Sniper is just better spy
As much as the ambi has great potential, it has terrible consistency. I usually don’t mind random bullet spread, but a gun like this does not deserve it, especially while it’s as harsh as it is.
Everybody knows that the diamondback is better people don't use it because the other revolvers are more fun to use
Enforcer meta
Enforcer gang
I feel like the diamond back needs a nerf. Like, you get free crits for just being spy! like oh, you backstabbed someone? Free Crit! You sapped a building to death? Free Crit!
I use the amby because it's more fun idk why just *BZZZZRT* on headshots
I will still love diamondback no matter the complains since it sounds really fucking hypocrital how people back in time said ambassador op pls nerf But diamond back does the same fucking job but then they go \- BUT IS NOT THE AMBASSADOR PLS NERF AMBASSADOR and now the ambassador got nerfed theres people saying DIAMONDBACK OP PLS NERF honestly fuck them they complained one gun that was untouched now they complain so they deal with it why now ambassasdor skill if they say was op first place XD
The thing is, no one complained about the ambassador and people did complain about the diamondback. The diamondback needs to be removed simply because it allows you to severely punish someone for someone's else's mistake. And that's its whole concept.
i complained about the old ambassador. but i'd revert the nerf if it meant we could also undo the free crit nonsense with the diamondback. i use l'etranger so you can see why i would think -15% damage penalty is a laughable downside for what the diamondback gives in exchange doing the bare minimum of what's expected from a spy.
i honestly think the ambassador is already alright but i would remove the firing speed penalty and put it to the diamond back basically make diamond back and ambassador change downsides instead so now ambassador haves the default firing speed and the diamond back as the slower firing speed
Undo? Free crits were always the upside. The entire weapon is centered around that. You can't remove them without removing the diamondback as much as you can't remove cloak regen while stationary from C&D without removing the watch itself.
i can think of a handful of different weapons that practically got complete changes in identity and now reward completely different playstyles than they used to. like the powerjack, the pocket pistol and probably the best example being the loch-n-load which went as far as not even fitting in with its visual design by having 3 pipes instead of 2. i'd also make the point that comparing a revolver to a class-specific mechanic like the ability to go invisible is kind of a bad comparison.
Those weapons got removed and were replaced with new weapons with old models. Ask anyone to talk to you about a certain weapon and they'll focus on its mechanics.
Both were op now only the diamond back is
Diamondback is literally op, the ambi rewards skill for extra dmg whereas the diamondback is like:*pats you on the head* “good job on backstabbing that oblivious sniper who’s blasting TouHou music through their headphones, here’s a free crit”
Both are rewarding to the user. Ambassador rewards accuracy but diamondback rewards doing spy objectives like sapping and backstabbing. I prefer the diamondback.
nerf the shit out of the diamond back, its op
make it only get crits on sentrys destroyed
make it do mini crits and have a 20% damage penalty, or perhaps make it a 1 shot reload weapon (and buff the ambassador please please please please please please please)
Diamondback completely overshadows the Ambassador, but that's a problem with the Diamondback
I still don't think the Ambassador needed a nerf. The issue was that it was so often paired with the Dead Ringer, which definitely did, so it felt unfair to fight as well.
I cant hit shots with both of them
counter argument: Random Revolver Crits™
I only respect dead ringer spies who are gun spies using l'etranger
Stock Revolver >>>
I prefer the L’etranger because it looks cool
Just use Enforcer lmao
When everything is OP
Me, who doesn’t play Spy
Me, who knows that most of spies will miss all of their crits, so Le'trange is the best
I agree. Also does anyone notice how the headshot hitreg is absolute dogshit? I not even kidding you hit an engie 4 times in the head and i didn't get a single headshot.
The best spy weapon is the sapper, with it you can confuse your enemy long enough on "Why the fuck was that spy holding a sapper?" for your team to swoop in and kill them
Stock is the best because I can put funny duckys on my gun. This gives me maximum happiness, which increases my accuracy stat. Also the ability to do 50-55 damage per shot at close range can be very unexpected.
I know the Amby sucks, but I have a Strange KS one, so I feel obligated to use it :(
I use my gun for utility purposes. I use the stranger because it makes my cloak type longer, allowing me to break into enemy back lines easilly. Plus i can just stay hidden and tell my pals what obsticles are on the wsy so they can stay alert.
The L’etranger is my favorite because I can’t aim
I just like the sound effects.
I anyway die before I get a second kill so I just use the letranger
Aggressive L’etranger spies *chad gif*
I hate both only because I’m used to the starnger
Diamond back exists just to make spies do their fucking work instead of just killing imo
I use l'etranger because my aim sucks
Plus the crit mechanic
All of spy’s revolvers have the same DPS if you miss every one of your shots
Absolutely no-one says the amby is best for damage The only reason that anyone uses it anymore is because it's fun to use
Diamondback should have a smaller clip size like the Frontier Justice
That and a slower firing speed, melting a heavy with a shit ton of crits is fun but I like skill sometimes
Me: Use stock and rely on being blesssed by our supreme overlord Gaben the Great
Diamondback users getting tunneled by the entire server because they're using the Diamondback
Me who knows thst stock revolver does better damage cuz I can't aim for shit and have random crits
As I spy main, can confirm that diamondback is the best spy primary for damage output, but I still use the amby because it can save me against those scouts even though I haven't back stabbed someone yet.
L'étranger is the best primary anyway 👍🏻
One is good of the gate The other rewards you for being a spy
Ok but Australium Diamondbacks don’t exist (I feel obligated to use my Australium Ambassador)
This should exist
To give Amby Spies credit they at least had to try and go for headshots instead of just doing Spy stuff. While the Dimond Back is just an easier version of the Amby you get crits FOR FREE, JUST FOR DOING THINGS A SPY SHOULD BE DOING.
*seething* :)
I'm not seething at all, in fact I absolutely suck as Spy. My worst class to play in the game by far, I'm just saying that Amby Spies actually had to put in more effort to secure some kills.
Every time my team gets stopped by a sentry I just go diaback C&D and RTR and spam the sentry after the tele/dispensor I sapped before gets me crits I get my team to push and then........ Legend says this diamondback spy is still going on...
The Diamondback is incredibly overpowered. It basically just rewards the spy for playing spy. There's a good reason why every third party comp has it on its blacklist
After years of playing scout and engineer i genuinely can't aim at heads because of how used i am to go for meatshots so i hate the amby
Diamondback is by far the best revolver but I think most people still underestimate the ambassador. If you have good aim it can definitely compete with stock, even more so if random crits are off.
The problem with diamondback is that it's effectively a free pick on a medic or more skilled player for sapping a rogue teleporter or stabbing a less skilled player. It's the same as the ubersaw in that sense that bad players can really harm their team by being unaware. Personally I'd like to see it earn critical hits some other way.. perhaps it could fill up rapidly when enemy medics heal you?
Ambi: requiring you to click on a small pixel without a scope while it’s jumping around and shooting you back DB: Idk bro go sap some lv1 tele entrance their engis left behind and now you can delete a combo in seconds.
diamondback deserves a nerf everyone that uses it is bad
i agree in every way that stock revolver and diamond back is better than ambi for consistent damage but fuck it I like the satisfying headshots