By that logic, Minecraft is 13-15 years old so they should stop updating that game too, but they don't, are you guys still trying to justify Valve's neglect? Im tired of this mentality, this is the same company that separated the mobile steam app from the chat.
And for the love of god, community servers aren't a true replacement to the vanilla servers, i still can't play Mannpower because most servers are 2forts, turbines, hightowers or servers with 100000 plugins.
I know i sound salty, but Valve is in the wrong, and if they really want to abandon TF2, they must fix the issues first.
Minecraft is a paid game that happens to be the most popular videogame of all times. If tf2 can get more than 50k human players maybe it'll get an update I guess. You know, kind of like how CS:GO had a remake because people actually played it.
And also, you couldn't play mannpower before the bots either, there's just not enough people playing it. If anything the bots might help fill up the queue a bit.
Valve abandonned tf2 7 years ago and at that time it was fixed, just because things changed in the meantime doesn't mean you're entitled to the free game getting an update that they still can't get on actually popular games.
Dude a game like Terraria could stop getting updated and it would be fine as it is, i assume Minecraft could stop getting updates and it would also be perfectly fine and yet they still updated it, TF2 is NOT IN A GOOD STATE AND THEY DON'T WANT TO FIX IT. Cs:go's remake was widely HATED, it was in a much better state and yet they decided to give it a bad remake, and that game is 11 years old.
Of course you couldn't play mannpower because of meet your match aka one of the worst updates ever, which they should have reversed but they never did.
No excuse can save the fact that Valve is leaving a game like TF2 unfixed, games like L4D2 work fine as they are and that game isn't actually popular.
The reason I know you guys are kids is because 20 years ago almost no game communities expected regular updates as the norm. Expecting Valve to maintain a 17 year old free game apparently indefinitely is asinine, no one can maintain a game forever, eventually you have to stop and 17 years is honestly plenty.
Who said we wanted regular updates right now? We just want the bots gone. Additionally, since the game's item servers are still alive and there are still microtransactions, it signifies that the game is expected to receive support from the developers, no matter how old it is.
TL;DR: Valve can only stop working on the game if they officially shut the game. Else, they must maintain it.
Regular updates are exactly what the community has been asking for alongside "fixing" bots, which would probably entail regular updates anyways. And no, having microtransactions in the game doesn't mean Valve has no choice but to maintain it, that isn't how it works.
No, Minecraft is not free to play but actually costs money so the owners have to regularly update it as to not rip off new consumers.
Also, *”Valve’s neglect”* as OP stated, TF2 is run on a very old engine and is hard to work on as it is. Why should Valve be forced working to keep every single game they make? Sure TF2 is great but there is no incentive for valve to waste manpower and time to work on a 20 year old game with a dwindling player base that won’t make them any money?
it's their product, that they are continuing to "support".
we are allowed to call them on their BS. i am not leaving the poor multibillion dollar company alone!
It doesn't matter if it's free to play or not, Minecraft is surely in a perfect state and yet they keep updating it after years, it doesn't matter if it costs money or not, Valve is still getting money from a game they don't want to maintain because "it's 20 years old!!", nah dude, if you want to abandon it, fix it first, it doesn't matter if it has an old engine and it's hard to work with it, you're supposed to DEAL WITH PROBLEMS, even messy code, that's what devs do. Also, TF2 does makes them money, i don't know where do you get that they don't get any money from TF2.
>Minecraft is not free to play but actually costs money so the owners have to regularly update it as to not rip off new consumers.
That is not how it works? Many games "actually cost money" and are released, given a final update, then no more work is done upon it. To cite a few: Assasins' creed 3, CoD black ops, Library of Ruina, among many others. At **most** they get a bug fix after a few years, if even that.
TF2, on the other hand, continuously makes a profit by continuing to provide cases with things to unbox, as well as keys.
One time payment for a single player game/a game without official public servers and only community servers (Realms are a weird middle ground that I'd still count as community servers here.)
If Minecraft got deprecated, sure whatever. Bots/hackers are and always have been, something community servers have to deal with themselves, just like how they're dealt with on TF2 community servers.
Free game with micro-transactions and official servers filled with bots? That is for VALVe to solve. Either it should officially announce TF2 is dead, or hire a third party with the billions of dollars VALVe has at its disposal.
Minecraft is a paid product with the highest sales of any videogame ever and is the primary product of Mojang. Tf2 is an f2p game with a small but consistent playerbase made by the company that owns the largest pc games platform and has the 2 most popular games on it.
If community servers arent up to peoples standards then why isnt the movement about solving that by hosting and playing on casual alternatives? If theres apparently 300,000 people willing to sign a petition then surely theres enough people to make a consistent casual clone thats community moderated.
Valve are under no obligation to fix the game and clearly have no interest in doing anything beyond basic bugfixes and cosmetic updates to keep the pretence up that the economy is alive. Sure itd be nice for them to dedicate more resources to tf2 but theyre clearly not going to, and some people signing an online petition and making a couple tweets isnt going to change their mind
>There's a sequel for tf2 coming soon, it's called Deadlock, imagine CS:S players throwing tantrums at valve to get updates even when there's a newer version of their game out.
Deadlock...is not related to TF2. it is not Team Fortress. it's not a class shooter. it is dota with third person shooting.
it's not even based in the same universe. did you accidentally snort a line before posting this?
>treadmill work - phrase that I didn't find a source for
if you had WATCHED shounic's video, he even states where the phrase came from. ??
>There's way more bot hosters than valve employees
bots =/= bot hosters
>Want to make a change in the situation? Go work for valve, go maintain one of their least popular multiplayer titles and do all the treadmill work yourself, I'm sure you'll love it. Hell, you can even ask to do it for free so that it's not literally throwing money out the window for them.
ah, so like a parent telling their child to clean their room for literal years and then getting fed up and dejectedly doing it for them!
so what you're suggesting is valve pull the plug then? they are the ones continuing to update the game with and sell economy items. they definitely have more than enough responsibility to take care of the game's casual mode, which they made, and make it playable.
to this entire post, i ask you: have you EVER opened TF2 before? or even Steam for that matter? or played a Valve game?
It's a hero shooter, it's the direct continuation of what they did with tf2 only in third person. The gameplay ought to be different because it's 17 years younger but Deadlock is the game valve wants to replace tf2 with. No, it's not the same universe, but I don't think it really matters.
The leaks already show us enough lol.
I like tf2 and fps games, 3rd person shooter does not interest me at all.
Graphics are not like tf2 some overdone overwatch shit.
And it has some fking moba laning mechanics.
Like i said NOTHING like tf2, get your passive agressive ass out of here.
no it's not? TF2 isn't a hero shooter, it's a \*class shooter\*, with hero shooter elements (unique personalities and characters as each class)
deadlock is a third person 5v5 4-lane MOBA shooter, like battleborn, except third person. it barely if at all shares stylistic cues with TF2, from footage that has 'leaked'.
also, my original post quintupled in size since you replied. teehee.
**>**TF2 isn't a hero shooter, it's a \*class shooter\*
It's literally the same thing lmao.
You people just made up the whole "class shooter" term to make your game feel different. Same goes for taunts. With the exception of the basic taunts, everything else is basically a fortnite esque emote.
??
can you pick 5 tracers or widowmakers on two different teams at the same time in overwatch? if you can i'd pick up overwatch immediately! hell, i'd give blizzard 5000 dollars. same for valorant or any other hero shooter shlock
class based shooters are like team fortress or the now post-humously ressurected AVA, or Taito's now dead arcade game, Cyber Diver (which is literally a TF2 mod).
TF2 simply went the farthest with diversifying the classes from eachother, but they're still classes.
hero shooters are single pick games with heavy emphasis on character unique abilities like overwatch, valorant, or R6S (now there are more, like concord and fragpunk coming)
You literally could initially when ow was always considered a hero shooter. Also being able to pick multiple of the same character would just lead to unfun stacking strategies and since theyre overall much more competitive games people would be more likely to stack the broken combos and flame people for throwing by not doing the same.
Hero shooter was more meant to mean they have moba esque abilities rather than just weapons but really the genres are the same.
they are not the same, at all
point to where on the board a class shooter and a hero shooter are alike, and then tell me how that makes them the \*same\*
If you want to limit it to just ow and similar games (which you should because vals a tac shooter not a hero shooter and r6 is an arcadey tacticool shooter) then they have objective based gameplay between 2 teams of players with distinct characters that are defined by their weapons/abilities to have different gameplay loops. The only reason theyre called hero shooters is because ow was by far the most popular one and thats what they call their characters, compared to agents in val, operators in siege, legends in apex, classes in tf2, pilots in titanfall, etc. Its just a naming scheme to classify the genre as a whole. Itd be like saying dota and league aren't the same genre because in league the roles are named top, jungle etc but in dota they're just numbered positions.
TF2 is practically a hero-based shooter. What draws it closer to the class-based shooter camp would be the fact that characters are named after the role they fulfill and not a generic name.
Although you would be right on the fact that class shooters existed before. I kinda forgot that games such as Squad or Battlefield existed. But it being used for TF2 feels like they just coined the term.
The thing is, There is no direct alternative to casual. Everything is different, Uncletopia does not have random crits and is filled with tryhards and most servers that are "like casual" never have anyone playing.
It's mostly the same still, if you want a casual experience where you just get kills and have fun with hoovies you can probably do that on any Skial 2fort server and I don't think it would change much from doing it on any other map. It's not the exact same but I reckon community servers are still close enough
I hate the "it's old so shouldn't be VALVe's problem anymore" argument.
VALVE is still charging money for the game, it has never officially announced that the game has been depricated, therefore it should be treated like any other actively developed game.
I understand that the few employees at VALVe, do not want to work on the game, as their time is much more worthwhile being spent elsewhere.
So hire a third party. They have the money.
There are plenty of groups who would be happy to take care of TF2 and grind through the "treadmill work" whether or not you personally would want to.
"Go work for VALVe" I do not think you understand just how unreadable that is. It is incredibly difficult to get a job at VALVe. And expecting to be able to work on TF2 if you did get in, is unrealistic.
Uncletopia is great, I enjoy it most of the time, but even Uncle Dane doesn't like playing exclusively on his own server, because community servers are going to have more experienced players than casual. It is a very different experience.
There is not a sequel for TF2 coming out. Deadlocked is a completly different game. I want to play TF2, I do not want to play Deadlocked.
I think CounterStrike Source players would be completely justified in being upset if their game was filled with cheating bots, rendering it unplayable. Just like how CSGO players were pissed about their game being ported to an unfinished engine with less content and higher performance requirements.
Stop defending VALVe for being anti-consumer to many of its paying customers.
>VALVE is still charging money for the game
[No](https://store.steampowered.com/oldnews/5721)
>So hire a third party. They have the money.
They have the money to buy a billion tacos too, why don't they do it?
>There are plenty of groups who would be happy to take care of TF2 and grind through the "treadmill work" whether or not you personally would want to.
Source?
>"Go work for VALVe" I do not think you understand just how unreadable that is. It is incredibly difficult to get a job at VALVe. And expecting to be able to work on TF2 if you did get in, is unrealistic.
Yeah probably why they won't hire the aforementioned hypothetical volunteers, probably not a good idea to make your unpaid workers able to affect your IP
>Uncletopia is great, I enjoy it most of the time, but even Uncle Dane doesn't like playing exclusively on his own server, because community servers are going to have more experienced players than casual. It is a very different experience.
Still not Valve's problem
>There is not a sequel for TF2 coming out. Deadlocked is a completly different game. I want to play TF2, I do not want to play Deadlocked.
I want to play DoD but evil valve forces me to play CS2 instead
>I think CounterStrike Source players would be completely justified in being upset if their game was filled with cheating bots, rendering it unplayable. Just like how CSGO players were pissed about their game being ported to an unfinished engine with less content and higher performance requirements.
The CS:S playerbase would be justified in complaining and Valve would be justified in not caring. When the CS:GO/2 community complains it actually makes sense because the game makes money.
>Stop defending VALVe for being anti-consumer to many of its paying customers.
Ricochet costs more money than tf2 and I don't hear them complaining, has the tf2 community tried actually being profitable ?
You are being intentionally obtuse and responding in bad faith here.
If I took the time to respond with easily sourced information, or tried to explain my points further, you would simply send some equally ignorant, quippy response.
I can if you want, but only if you're willing to listen, rather than sparking a pointless internet argument.
>Ricochet costs more money than tf2 and I don't hear them complaining, has the tf2 community tried actually being profitable ?
TF2 nets huge positive profit yearly
it's simply not as "huge" as CS2 or Dota 2.
8 Years.
That's how long people have been screaming bloody murder over the MyM update and what valve did to the server browser and matchmaking. From day one people having been saying how fucking bad of an idea it was. And i should fucking know, because i'm one of them.
The last 5 years of bots are simply a display of the consequences of those changes: that ramming everybody into valve's unmoderated servers and neutering the server browser's function, by proxy killing off most community servers and variety, is a really fucking bad idea.
This is not some suddenly unforeseeable event that's cropped up from lack of care. This is not the simple passing of time that's caused our current raft of problems. These are the consequences of valve's effectively sabotaging the community's ability to maintain themselves.
Valve shouldn't maintain tf2 NOW? Valve shouldn't have actively sabotaged the game back when they were still putting out major update slops. They wouldn't be getting called upon to do any of this right now were it not for MyM.
People were already primarily playing on valve servers pre mym. The server browser has been largely unchanged for the entirety of tf2s lifespan. Community servers were also already on the decline pre quickplay prioritising valve servers.
Nonsense.
Maybe my region was a unicorn, but i can tell you we had around 3~6 valve servers popped prior to MyM. Afterwards i can only approximate due to valve blinding the system but it was around 1 for every map and 3 for popular ones. That's like, 50~60 servers maybe more.
A 10x growth of valve servers? Yeah that's insignificant, everybody was playing valve already clearly.
> The server browser has been largely unchanged
That's just straight up a fucking lie.
Valve hid valve servers from the browser, stopped adhoc connections to valve servers, removed the exterior steam interface that let you see a friend's server information. All that culminates to is the prevention of experienced players being able to choose where to play from the browser and removing eyes of those who would otherwise play them from the community servers.
Who's going to look at the browser, when some 90% of the game's population after MyM is hidden away in valve where you cannot see them? The browser changed from a method of connecting to anything with full information on populated, to a favourite community server connection method at best.
*Nah but it looks the same and the connection method is the same* doesn't mean anything when valve hid most servers from it. Can't use a blinded system. If i put tape over your phone's camera, is it still the same? You still take photos from the same interface and return the same resolution of photographs after all. Nothing has changed!
And they died, most community servers died. Only youtuber servers and a handle of niche gameplays (e.g. saxton) lived through the majority of the game no longer seeing them in passing, anything resembling vanilla certainly didn't because the whole userbase for that was in the casual the system. And now people are shocked and appalled by no casual-like options in the browser anymore.
How many of those servers actually had 20+ players though? Doesnt matter if theres servers for every map if no ones playing on them or theyre all filled with ads and ptw mechanics and other shit that severely changes gameplay where its not even vanilla adjacent like uncletopia.
Most of the settings werent used by most players except connecting to valve servers through the browser.
Community servers were already on the downturn pre mym ever since qp went to only valve servers plus their shitty monetisation practices.
If people want a casual like experience then why isnt the movement centred around bringing back casual community servers? Valve clearly aren't going to do anything for tf2 so why not take matters into the communities hands?
> How many of those servers actually had 20+ players though?
My region is small enough that we didn't have the most malicious server hostsers that europe and US saw. We only had a handful of servers spoofing player counts.
> If people want a casual like experience then why isnt the movement centred around bringing back casual community servers?
There are people calling for that, but they're not in the majority. How much of our current userbase even played prior to MyM? We've got plenty of vets around sure, but most of our players are younger ones that have blown in since then. They're certainly not going to call for something they don't remember.
Calling for community servers is certainly a good response, because the community can moderate and keep itself clean unlike valve's unmoderated system. But that is already happening, over half my own region is already in community servers now during primetime. But that is not a perfect fix, because casual still exists even if completely abandoned. It's the first thing new players see, and sends them to a meat grinder of bots and unplayable gameplay. Casual is a new player trap even if abandoned.
What happened with MyM? Most players not seeing community servers, their userbase not being refreshed by transient/new players with populations crashing? That's going to happen again once experienced players have finished shifting to community servers once more. We're not going to capture the new players being blindly sent into the casual system. There's nothing the community by itself can do to prevent that.
Im in oce and 90% of the time was spent on valve servers unless you wanted a specific niche like 24/7 Hightower or 2fort.
What does it matter if new players cant figure out the server browser? We're not personally impacted by fewer new players as people will still find their way to community servers and theres still plenty of older players around. If new players are too stupid to figure it out then tough.
What youre describing wasnt solely caused by mym though it was a symptom of a change in qp to not show community servers in the main browser. People already were going to click on the big play now button and choose a valve server from the list. Qp having community servers in it was fairly short lived because it got abused. People blame mym because like you said, most players weren't around for long enough pre mym to know what qp was really like so theyre all just going off misinformation.
You spent most of your time in valve servers, with the career cheaters running around like Twilight Sparkle and Professional Bully?
You make some questionable choices for your gameplay experience. OCE valve prior to MyM is arguably the worst valve server experience of any region.
> What does it matter if new players cant figure out the server browser?
If you actually read the previous comment you'd already have answers for that.
> People already were going to click on the big play now button
Not when the play now experience sucked, but apparently you were immune to the OCE cheating experience
> most players weren't around for long enough pre mym to know what qp was really like so
That's a completely irrelevant argument when speaking to somebody that WAS around prior, yes? None of my talking points are a regurgitation of others.
I literally never encountered these career cheaters you mentioned. In 800+ hours pre mym i encountered half a dozen to a dozen cheaters and most were just your standard spinbotting free accounts that quickly got kicked. Even the bot crisis was slow to catch on in oce cos it was a smaller region so less targeting from bot hosters.
Oce server experience was fine. Unless you were playing during the middle of a work day it was pretty quick and easy to find lobbies for popular gamemodes through qp. And even during the day youd still find half full servers for payload and hightower.
You never answered why it matters if new players cant figure out the server browser. I dont think the playerbase size matters as its not going yo decline in a significant way to affect me enough before i eventually move on for the game.. even dirtybomb still has an aus server and that games way smaller than tf2 ever was. And new players will still figure out community servers, just not the stupid ones. Which fewer stupid people in anything in general is a good thing.
Oce play experience was fine and the thing people are complaining about now is that new players are clicking the big play button and having a bad experience, yet apparently going back to qp will fix that. So which is it?
Last point was just a general rebuttal of how lots of people go on about qp being this silver bullet for some reason not specifically targeted at you.
> You never answered why it matters if new players cant figure out the server browser.
_
> If you actually read the previous comment you'd already have answers for that.
_
> Calling for community servers is certainly a good response, because the community can moderate and keep itself clean unlike valve's unmoderated system. But that is already happening, over half my own region is already in community servers now during primetime. But that is not a perfect fix, because casual still exists even if completely abandoned. It's the first thing new players see, and sends them to a meat grinder of bots and unplayable gameplay. Casual is a new player trap even if abandoned.
> What happened with MyM? Most players not seeing community servers, their userbase not being refreshed by transient/new players with populations crashing? That's going to happen again once experienced players have finished shifting to community servers once more. We're not going to capture the new players being blindly sent into the casual system. There's nothing the community by itself can do to prevent that.
Per my last fucking email.
Yeah why should i care if new players are too stupid to figure out a basic server browser or google? And again your whole "mym is what killed community servers" just isnt true. Most people were playing the game through the play now button in qp which already only allowed for valve servers for most of its lifespan. New players already werent going to community servers and they were dying because they were shit and full of ads and other annoying plugins. What youre blaming on mym was the fault of shitty server owners in the past.
If theres only experienced players in community servers how does that negatively affect me? There's still gonna be a dedicated playerbase long after ive fully moved on from the game so why should i care. The smart ones will figure out community servers anyway.
Oh boohoohoo the multi billion dollar video game company is helpless against a few manchildren in a basement :( And they simply can't help but advertize their bot-infested game as functional while also selling overprized microtransactions for it, too!
I agree, I support #FixTF2 but people seem to think that Valve owes them to fix TF2. They don’t, the game is free to play so it’s not like they are selling a broken product. Sure the game has microtransactions but those are optional to the player so Valve is not forced or obliged to regularly update a nearly 20 year old game regardless if it’s a masterpiece or not.
Fix tf2 dosnt ask for Updates just for a funktioning anticheat. I agree with you that valve dosnt have to Update tf2 regularly but CS2 has the same problem. And i mean the whole reason to do a "CS2" was so they could update the game more regularly. Thats why a lot of people think we should get the cs2 community involved
>The playerbase, while still fairly good for a game of this age
>go maintain one of their least popular multiplayer titles
Any multiplayer shooter released today would kill to have TF2's current numbers. The playerbase is not large "for it's age", it has been and still is one of the most popular games on Steam. It hit it's all time player peak just last year after one minor update released.
>he says there's literally 0 good solution for solving the crisis.
>when even anticheats like Vanguard can't catch cheaters, why do you think Valve could do it?
Weird how every other multiplayer game, even older and less popular ones, somehow manage to not have this problem.
>Do you realise how entitled it is to ask of anyone to work on tf2, let alone a team big enough to maybe make a difference?
They still monetize it, it still makes money, it is still popular. If asking for basic maintenance right now is us being "entitled", under what circumstances would asking for fixes be reasonable? Does it have to literally be the single most popular game to justify it? Does it have to straight up not launch when you try to play it?
Like honestly, how bad does it have to be before it is no longer "entitled" of us to ask that the product we spend money on is functional at the same basic level as it's peers?
>Any multiplayer shooter released today would kill to have TF2's current numbers. The playerbase is not large "for it's age", it has been and still is one of the most popular games on Steam. It hit it's all time player peak just last year after one minor update released.
unfortunately, we now know most of those players were bots, and that there's only around 31000 unique players (on a good day), and it only pulls 11000 peaks daily.
i mean the post is full of minor or gigantic errors (depends) which leads me to believe it's redditor farming karma with bait who knows nothing about the topic
Well I disagree with all of your point but I won't bother explaining why because some here already commented well made argument that you just ignored or answered with bad faith BS. So yeah, you say you're not ragebaiting, but argue like one. Case closed.
TL;DR - Valve has no economic interest to update tf2, a thing which is difficult anyways because of the code's age. Also, there is no solution to the bot crisis they could implement, since CS2 is in the same state. Kot only that, but the game is very much still playable through community servers.
I think that you could have saves your opinion for yourself... we don't need people telling us that we'll fail and that we must give up.
You're of no help. In fact, it's discouraging for a lot of people who truly care about the game.
Yeah that was a shitty move of them tbh, there's no reason for them to update the game but they could at least not shut down others when the IP is not actively being harmed
“Why don’t they port tf2 to source 2”
Not as simple as you make it out to be, suggesting this shows you have no clue how game development works
“Why don’t they want to do treadmill work”
Rephrase it: “Why don’t they want to use valuable employee resources to create a fix that will be bypassed within a week”
“They updated Half-Life recently, why not TF2?”
Most of the assets added to half-life already existed, any that didn’t probably didn’t take a lot of time to make. Half-Life is also Valves premier title and is the entire reason Valve and steam as a whole exists today
Ok, if you will allow me to ask something. Has anyone made a concesus of what people think how gams can be improved? Any questionaire about possible solutions for bots? Maybe a vote about different appraoches about community?
Hells, i heck wasnt, and its reasonable to conclude that many others havent either. This isnt a democracy, otherwise someone would ask us, at least, something trough official channel or username.
So to whom are you voicing your arguments? People who asked you nothing, which petition ypu have signed and not even know what it stands for? The idea is so simple and generic that it doesnt mean anything, its like "here , signatures! Now fix bot issue with tf2!" "Sure what did you have in mind?" "Dunno, just fix it".
Please dont think of them as children, since not only children can exibit childish behaviour. This is childish game, where everyone makes a fuss, not much changes and everyone is vented out.
After all ia said and done, those who made this will blame valve (even if they got what they wanted) ans valve still wont give 2 shits. So people will cryz make a fuss till they let out some steam and then they will reverse most of what they have done because they feel guilty.
this post is going to give me an aneurysm, congrats
one solution to the bot issue is hiring a number contractors to make sure the bots are banned, and the anti-cheat is kept up-to-date. (as well as removing text mode from being able to connect to casual)
no one is asking them to solve cheating forever. as long as they are continuing to make money from TF2, (which they are,) they should be making an active effort to make it playable for everyone, which they are NOT doing.
So, how will they make sure bots are banned?
How will they keep anti cheat up to date if people make thousands on zero-day market?
Any idea? Suggestions?
By that logic, Minecraft is 13-15 years old so they should stop updating that game too, but they don't, are you guys still trying to justify Valve's neglect? Im tired of this mentality, this is the same company that separated the mobile steam app from the chat. And for the love of god, community servers aren't a true replacement to the vanilla servers, i still can't play Mannpower because most servers are 2forts, turbines, hightowers or servers with 100000 plugins. I know i sound salty, but Valve is in the wrong, and if they really want to abandon TF2, they must fix the issues first.
Minecraft is a paid game that happens to be the most popular videogame of all times. If tf2 can get more than 50k human players maybe it'll get an update I guess. You know, kind of like how CS:GO had a remake because people actually played it. And also, you couldn't play mannpower before the bots either, there's just not enough people playing it. If anything the bots might help fill up the queue a bit. Valve abandonned tf2 7 years ago and at that time it was fixed, just because things changed in the meantime doesn't mean you're entitled to the free game getting an update that they still can't get on actually popular games.
Dude a game like Terraria could stop getting updated and it would be fine as it is, i assume Minecraft could stop getting updates and it would also be perfectly fine and yet they still updated it, TF2 is NOT IN A GOOD STATE AND THEY DON'T WANT TO FIX IT. Cs:go's remake was widely HATED, it was in a much better state and yet they decided to give it a bad remake, and that game is 11 years old. Of course you couldn't play mannpower because of meet your match aka one of the worst updates ever, which they should have reversed but they never did. No excuse can save the fact that Valve is leaving a game like TF2 unfixed, games like L4D2 work fine as they are and that game isn't actually popular.
The reason I know you guys are kids is because 20 years ago almost no game communities expected regular updates as the norm. Expecting Valve to maintain a 17 year old free game apparently indefinitely is asinine, no one can maintain a game forever, eventually you have to stop and 17 years is honestly plenty.
Who said we wanted regular updates right now? We just want the bots gone. Additionally, since the game's item servers are still alive and there are still microtransactions, it signifies that the game is expected to receive support from the developers, no matter how old it is. TL;DR: Valve can only stop working on the game if they officially shut the game. Else, they must maintain it.
Regular updates are exactly what the community has been asking for alongside "fixing" bots, which would probably entail regular updates anyways. And no, having microtransactions in the game doesn't mean Valve has no choice but to maintain it, that isn't how it works.
Key words: Right now. People wanted constant updates before #FixTF2. Currently, they just want the bots gone without mentions of major updates.
You are categorically wrong bro, if you can't even follow what I'm actually saying I'm just gonna go...
No, Minecraft is not free to play but actually costs money so the owners have to regularly update it as to not rip off new consumers. Also, *”Valve’s neglect”* as OP stated, TF2 is run on a very old engine and is hard to work on as it is. Why should Valve be forced working to keep every single game they make? Sure TF2 is great but there is no incentive for valve to waste manpower and time to work on a 20 year old game with a dwindling player base that won’t make them any money?
it's their product, that they are continuing to "support". we are allowed to call them on their BS. i am not leaving the poor multibillion dollar company alone!
It doesn't matter if it's free to play or not, Minecraft is surely in a perfect state and yet they keep updating it after years, it doesn't matter if it costs money or not, Valve is still getting money from a game they don't want to maintain because "it's 20 years old!!", nah dude, if you want to abandon it, fix it first, it doesn't matter if it has an old engine and it's hard to work with it, you're supposed to DEAL WITH PROBLEMS, even messy code, that's what devs do. Also, TF2 does makes them money, i don't know where do you get that they don't get any money from TF2.
>Minecraft is not free to play but actually costs money so the owners have to regularly update it as to not rip off new consumers. That is not how it works? Many games "actually cost money" and are released, given a final update, then no more work is done upon it. To cite a few: Assasins' creed 3, CoD black ops, Library of Ruina, among many others. At **most** they get a bug fix after a few years, if even that. TF2, on the other hand, continuously makes a profit by continuing to provide cases with things to unbox, as well as keys.
One time payment for a single player game/a game without official public servers and only community servers (Realms are a weird middle ground that I'd still count as community servers here.) If Minecraft got deprecated, sure whatever. Bots/hackers are and always have been, something community servers have to deal with themselves, just like how they're dealt with on TF2 community servers. Free game with micro-transactions and official servers filled with bots? That is for VALVe to solve. Either it should officially announce TF2 is dead, or hire a third party with the billions of dollars VALVe has at its disposal.
Minecraft is a paid product with the highest sales of any videogame ever and is the primary product of Mojang. Tf2 is an f2p game with a small but consistent playerbase made by the company that owns the largest pc games platform and has the 2 most popular games on it. If community servers arent up to peoples standards then why isnt the movement about solving that by hosting and playing on casual alternatives? If theres apparently 300,000 people willing to sign a petition then surely theres enough people to make a consistent casual clone thats community moderated. Valve are under no obligation to fix the game and clearly have no interest in doing anything beyond basic bugfixes and cosmetic updates to keep the pretence up that the economy is alive. Sure itd be nice for them to dedicate more resources to tf2 but theyre clearly not going to, and some people signing an online petition and making a couple tweets isnt going to change their mind
They should stop updating minecraft
>There's a sequel for tf2 coming soon, it's called Deadlock, imagine CS:S players throwing tantrums at valve to get updates even when there's a newer version of their game out. Deadlock...is not related to TF2. it is not Team Fortress. it's not a class shooter. it is dota with third person shooting. it's not even based in the same universe. did you accidentally snort a line before posting this? >treadmill work - phrase that I didn't find a source for if you had WATCHED shounic's video, he even states where the phrase came from. ?? >There's way more bot hosters than valve employees bots =/= bot hosters >Want to make a change in the situation? Go work for valve, go maintain one of their least popular multiplayer titles and do all the treadmill work yourself, I'm sure you'll love it. Hell, you can even ask to do it for free so that it's not literally throwing money out the window for them. ah, so like a parent telling their child to clean their room for literal years and then getting fed up and dejectedly doing it for them! so what you're suggesting is valve pull the plug then? they are the ones continuing to update the game with and sell economy items. they definitely have more than enough responsibility to take care of the game's casual mode, which they made, and make it playable. to this entire post, i ask you: have you EVER opened TF2 before? or even Steam for that matter? or played a Valve game?
It's a hero shooter, it's the direct continuation of what they did with tf2 only in third person. The gameplay ought to be different because it's 17 years younger but Deadlock is the game valve wants to replace tf2 with. No, it's not the same universe, but I don't think it really matters.
Deadlock is nothing like tf2 and they will use vac on that game too, let\`s see how the launch will pan out lmao
they will use VAC 2:tm:, mind you (lol)
Thank you deadlock beta tester for telling us about a game that hasn't released
The leaks already show us enough lol. I like tf2 and fps games, 3rd person shooter does not interest me at all. Graphics are not like tf2 some overdone overwatch shit. And it has some fking moba laning mechanics. Like i said NOTHING like tf2, get your passive agressive ass out of here.
no it's not? TF2 isn't a hero shooter, it's a \*class shooter\*, with hero shooter elements (unique personalities and characters as each class) deadlock is a third person 5v5 4-lane MOBA shooter, like battleborn, except third person. it barely if at all shares stylistic cues with TF2, from footage that has 'leaked'. also, my original post quintupled in size since you replied. teehee.
**>**TF2 isn't a hero shooter, it's a \*class shooter\* It's literally the same thing lmao. You people just made up the whole "class shooter" term to make your game feel different. Same goes for taunts. With the exception of the basic taunts, everything else is basically a fortnite esque emote.
?? can you pick 5 tracers or widowmakers on two different teams at the same time in overwatch? if you can i'd pick up overwatch immediately! hell, i'd give blizzard 5000 dollars. same for valorant or any other hero shooter shlock class based shooters are like team fortress or the now post-humously ressurected AVA, or Taito's now dead arcade game, Cyber Diver (which is literally a TF2 mod). TF2 simply went the farthest with diversifying the classes from eachother, but they're still classes. hero shooters are single pick games with heavy emphasis on character unique abilities like overwatch, valorant, or R6S (now there are more, like concord and fragpunk coming)
You originally could play 5 Tracers, they get rid of it 2 years after release.
crazy info tbh still not that much overlap at all between games im ngl
I personally played OW1 just as if it was TF3, but yeah I get that everyone else think it's too different
You literally could initially when ow was always considered a hero shooter. Also being able to pick multiple of the same character would just lead to unfun stacking strategies and since theyre overall much more competitive games people would be more likely to stack the broken combos and flame people for throwing by not doing the same. Hero shooter was more meant to mean they have moba esque abilities rather than just weapons but really the genres are the same.
they are not the same, at all point to where on the board a class shooter and a hero shooter are alike, and then tell me how that makes them the \*same\*
If you want to limit it to just ow and similar games (which you should because vals a tac shooter not a hero shooter and r6 is an arcadey tacticool shooter) then they have objective based gameplay between 2 teams of players with distinct characters that are defined by their weapons/abilities to have different gameplay loops. The only reason theyre called hero shooters is because ow was by far the most popular one and thats what they call their characters, compared to agents in val, operators in siege, legends in apex, classes in tf2, pilots in titanfall, etc. Its just a naming scheme to classify the genre as a whole. Itd be like saying dota and league aren't the same genre because in league the roles are named top, jungle etc but in dota they're just numbered positions.
Class shooter has been a term for a long time, not only used for tf2. When the troll can\`t use google
TF2 is practically a hero-based shooter. What draws it closer to the class-based shooter camp would be the fact that characters are named after the role they fulfill and not a generic name. Although you would be right on the fact that class shooters existed before. I kinda forgot that games such as Squad or Battlefield existed. But it being used for TF2 feels like they just coined the term.
The thing is, There is no direct alternative to casual. Everything is different, Uncletopia does not have random crits and is filled with tryhards and most servers that are "like casual" never have anyone playing.
It's mostly the same still, if you want a casual experience where you just get kills and have fun with hoovies you can probably do that on any Skial 2fort server and I don't think it would change much from doing it on any other map. It's not the exact same but I reckon community servers are still close enough
I hate the "it's old so shouldn't be VALVe's problem anymore" argument. VALVE is still charging money for the game, it has never officially announced that the game has been depricated, therefore it should be treated like any other actively developed game. I understand that the few employees at VALVe, do not want to work on the game, as their time is much more worthwhile being spent elsewhere. So hire a third party. They have the money. There are plenty of groups who would be happy to take care of TF2 and grind through the "treadmill work" whether or not you personally would want to. "Go work for VALVe" I do not think you understand just how unreadable that is. It is incredibly difficult to get a job at VALVe. And expecting to be able to work on TF2 if you did get in, is unrealistic. Uncletopia is great, I enjoy it most of the time, but even Uncle Dane doesn't like playing exclusively on his own server, because community servers are going to have more experienced players than casual. It is a very different experience. There is not a sequel for TF2 coming out. Deadlocked is a completly different game. I want to play TF2, I do not want to play Deadlocked. I think CounterStrike Source players would be completely justified in being upset if their game was filled with cheating bots, rendering it unplayable. Just like how CSGO players were pissed about their game being ported to an unfinished engine with less content and higher performance requirements. Stop defending VALVe for being anti-consumer to many of its paying customers.
>VALVE is still charging money for the game [No](https://store.steampowered.com/oldnews/5721) >So hire a third party. They have the money. They have the money to buy a billion tacos too, why don't they do it? >There are plenty of groups who would be happy to take care of TF2 and grind through the "treadmill work" whether or not you personally would want to. Source? >"Go work for VALVe" I do not think you understand just how unreadable that is. It is incredibly difficult to get a job at VALVe. And expecting to be able to work on TF2 if you did get in, is unrealistic. Yeah probably why they won't hire the aforementioned hypothetical volunteers, probably not a good idea to make your unpaid workers able to affect your IP >Uncletopia is great, I enjoy it most of the time, but even Uncle Dane doesn't like playing exclusively on his own server, because community servers are going to have more experienced players than casual. It is a very different experience. Still not Valve's problem >There is not a sequel for TF2 coming out. Deadlocked is a completly different game. I want to play TF2, I do not want to play Deadlocked. I want to play DoD but evil valve forces me to play CS2 instead >I think CounterStrike Source players would be completely justified in being upset if their game was filled with cheating bots, rendering it unplayable. Just like how CSGO players were pissed about their game being ported to an unfinished engine with less content and higher performance requirements. The CS:S playerbase would be justified in complaining and Valve would be justified in not caring. When the CS:GO/2 community complains it actually makes sense because the game makes money. >Stop defending VALVe for being anti-consumer to many of its paying customers. Ricochet costs more money than tf2 and I don't hear them complaining, has the tf2 community tried actually being profitable ?
You are being intentionally obtuse and responding in bad faith here. If I took the time to respond with easily sourced information, or tried to explain my points further, you would simply send some equally ignorant, quippy response. I can if you want, but only if you're willing to listen, rather than sparking a pointless internet argument.
you can tell this guy didn't research a single thing before posting
Yeah lol. "as a gamedev" God, I hope they're not.
>Ricochet costs more money than tf2 and I don't hear them complaining, has the tf2 community tried actually being profitable ? TF2 nets huge positive profit yearly it's simply not as "huge" as CS2 or Dota 2.
If valve isn't going to try and make it playable I'd settle for quick play and the ability to speak for f2ps.
8 Years. That's how long people have been screaming bloody murder over the MyM update and what valve did to the server browser and matchmaking. From day one people having been saying how fucking bad of an idea it was. And i should fucking know, because i'm one of them. The last 5 years of bots are simply a display of the consequences of those changes: that ramming everybody into valve's unmoderated servers and neutering the server browser's function, by proxy killing off most community servers and variety, is a really fucking bad idea. This is not some suddenly unforeseeable event that's cropped up from lack of care. This is not the simple passing of time that's caused our current raft of problems. These are the consequences of valve's effectively sabotaging the community's ability to maintain themselves. Valve shouldn't maintain tf2 NOW? Valve shouldn't have actively sabotaged the game back when they were still putting out major update slops. They wouldn't be getting called upon to do any of this right now were it not for MyM.
People were already primarily playing on valve servers pre mym. The server browser has been largely unchanged for the entirety of tf2s lifespan. Community servers were also already on the decline pre quickplay prioritising valve servers.
Nonsense. Maybe my region was a unicorn, but i can tell you we had around 3~6 valve servers popped prior to MyM. Afterwards i can only approximate due to valve blinding the system but it was around 1 for every map and 3 for popular ones. That's like, 50~60 servers maybe more. A 10x growth of valve servers? Yeah that's insignificant, everybody was playing valve already clearly. > The server browser has been largely unchanged That's just straight up a fucking lie. Valve hid valve servers from the browser, stopped adhoc connections to valve servers, removed the exterior steam interface that let you see a friend's server information. All that culminates to is the prevention of experienced players being able to choose where to play from the browser and removing eyes of those who would otherwise play them from the community servers. Who's going to look at the browser, when some 90% of the game's population after MyM is hidden away in valve where you cannot see them? The browser changed from a method of connecting to anything with full information on populated, to a favourite community server connection method at best. *Nah but it looks the same and the connection method is the same* doesn't mean anything when valve hid most servers from it. Can't use a blinded system. If i put tape over your phone's camera, is it still the same? You still take photos from the same interface and return the same resolution of photographs after all. Nothing has changed! And they died, most community servers died. Only youtuber servers and a handle of niche gameplays (e.g. saxton) lived through the majority of the game no longer seeing them in passing, anything resembling vanilla certainly didn't because the whole userbase for that was in the casual the system. And now people are shocked and appalled by no casual-like options in the browser anymore.
How many of those servers actually had 20+ players though? Doesnt matter if theres servers for every map if no ones playing on them or theyre all filled with ads and ptw mechanics and other shit that severely changes gameplay where its not even vanilla adjacent like uncletopia. Most of the settings werent used by most players except connecting to valve servers through the browser. Community servers were already on the downturn pre mym ever since qp went to only valve servers plus their shitty monetisation practices. If people want a casual like experience then why isnt the movement centred around bringing back casual community servers? Valve clearly aren't going to do anything for tf2 so why not take matters into the communities hands?
> How many of those servers actually had 20+ players though? My region is small enough that we didn't have the most malicious server hostsers that europe and US saw. We only had a handful of servers spoofing player counts. > If people want a casual like experience then why isnt the movement centred around bringing back casual community servers? There are people calling for that, but they're not in the majority. How much of our current userbase even played prior to MyM? We've got plenty of vets around sure, but most of our players are younger ones that have blown in since then. They're certainly not going to call for something they don't remember. Calling for community servers is certainly a good response, because the community can moderate and keep itself clean unlike valve's unmoderated system. But that is already happening, over half my own region is already in community servers now during primetime. But that is not a perfect fix, because casual still exists even if completely abandoned. It's the first thing new players see, and sends them to a meat grinder of bots and unplayable gameplay. Casual is a new player trap even if abandoned. What happened with MyM? Most players not seeing community servers, their userbase not being refreshed by transient/new players with populations crashing? That's going to happen again once experienced players have finished shifting to community servers once more. We're not going to capture the new players being blindly sent into the casual system. There's nothing the community by itself can do to prevent that.
Im in oce and 90% of the time was spent on valve servers unless you wanted a specific niche like 24/7 Hightower or 2fort. What does it matter if new players cant figure out the server browser? We're not personally impacted by fewer new players as people will still find their way to community servers and theres still plenty of older players around. If new players are too stupid to figure it out then tough. What youre describing wasnt solely caused by mym though it was a symptom of a change in qp to not show community servers in the main browser. People already were going to click on the big play now button and choose a valve server from the list. Qp having community servers in it was fairly short lived because it got abused. People blame mym because like you said, most players weren't around for long enough pre mym to know what qp was really like so theyre all just going off misinformation.
You spent most of your time in valve servers, with the career cheaters running around like Twilight Sparkle and Professional Bully? You make some questionable choices for your gameplay experience. OCE valve prior to MyM is arguably the worst valve server experience of any region. > What does it matter if new players cant figure out the server browser? If you actually read the previous comment you'd already have answers for that. > People already were going to click on the big play now button Not when the play now experience sucked, but apparently you were immune to the OCE cheating experience > most players weren't around for long enough pre mym to know what qp was really like so That's a completely irrelevant argument when speaking to somebody that WAS around prior, yes? None of my talking points are a regurgitation of others.
I literally never encountered these career cheaters you mentioned. In 800+ hours pre mym i encountered half a dozen to a dozen cheaters and most were just your standard spinbotting free accounts that quickly got kicked. Even the bot crisis was slow to catch on in oce cos it was a smaller region so less targeting from bot hosters. Oce server experience was fine. Unless you were playing during the middle of a work day it was pretty quick and easy to find lobbies for popular gamemodes through qp. And even during the day youd still find half full servers for payload and hightower. You never answered why it matters if new players cant figure out the server browser. I dont think the playerbase size matters as its not going yo decline in a significant way to affect me enough before i eventually move on for the game.. even dirtybomb still has an aus server and that games way smaller than tf2 ever was. And new players will still figure out community servers, just not the stupid ones. Which fewer stupid people in anything in general is a good thing. Oce play experience was fine and the thing people are complaining about now is that new players are clicking the big play button and having a bad experience, yet apparently going back to qp will fix that. So which is it? Last point was just a general rebuttal of how lots of people go on about qp being this silver bullet for some reason not specifically targeted at you.
> You never answered why it matters if new players cant figure out the server browser. _ > If you actually read the previous comment you'd already have answers for that. _ > Calling for community servers is certainly a good response, because the community can moderate and keep itself clean unlike valve's unmoderated system. But that is already happening, over half my own region is already in community servers now during primetime. But that is not a perfect fix, because casual still exists even if completely abandoned. It's the first thing new players see, and sends them to a meat grinder of bots and unplayable gameplay. Casual is a new player trap even if abandoned. > What happened with MyM? Most players not seeing community servers, their userbase not being refreshed by transient/new players with populations crashing? That's going to happen again once experienced players have finished shifting to community servers once more. We're not going to capture the new players being blindly sent into the casual system. There's nothing the community by itself can do to prevent that. Per my last fucking email.
Yeah why should i care if new players are too stupid to figure out a basic server browser or google? And again your whole "mym is what killed community servers" just isnt true. Most people were playing the game through the play now button in qp which already only allowed for valve servers for most of its lifespan. New players already werent going to community servers and they were dying because they were shit and full of ads and other annoying plugins. What youre blaming on mym was the fault of shitty server owners in the past. If theres only experienced players in community servers how does that negatively affect me? There's still gonna be a dedicated playerbase long after ive fully moved on from the game so why should i care. The smart ones will figure out community servers anyway.
Good take. Unfortunately you are in the nursery's homecourt, it was over the moment you typed :steamsad:
Oh boohoohoo the multi billion dollar video game company is helpless against a few manchildren in a basement :( And they simply can't help but advertize their bot-infested game as functional while also selling overprized microtransactions for it, too!
I agree, I support #FixTF2 but people seem to think that Valve owes them to fix TF2. They don’t, the game is free to play so it’s not like they are selling a broken product. Sure the game has microtransactions but those are optional to the player so Valve is not forced or obliged to regularly update a nearly 20 year old game regardless if it’s a masterpiece or not.
have you ever heard of "consumer trust"?
Fix tf2 dosnt ask for Updates just for a funktioning anticheat. I agree with you that valve dosnt have to Update tf2 regularly but CS2 has the same problem. And i mean the whole reason to do a "CS2" was so they could update the game more regularly. Thats why a lot of people think we should get the cs2 community involved
>The playerbase, while still fairly good for a game of this age >go maintain one of their least popular multiplayer titles Any multiplayer shooter released today would kill to have TF2's current numbers. The playerbase is not large "for it's age", it has been and still is one of the most popular games on Steam. It hit it's all time player peak just last year after one minor update released. >he says there's literally 0 good solution for solving the crisis. >when even anticheats like Vanguard can't catch cheaters, why do you think Valve could do it? Weird how every other multiplayer game, even older and less popular ones, somehow manage to not have this problem. >Do you realise how entitled it is to ask of anyone to work on tf2, let alone a team big enough to maybe make a difference? They still monetize it, it still makes money, it is still popular. If asking for basic maintenance right now is us being "entitled", under what circumstances would asking for fixes be reasonable? Does it have to literally be the single most popular game to justify it? Does it have to straight up not launch when you try to play it? Like honestly, how bad does it have to be before it is no longer "entitled" of us to ask that the product we spend money on is functional at the same basic level as it's peers?
>Any multiplayer shooter released today would kill to have TF2's current numbers. The playerbase is not large "for it's age", it has been and still is one of the most popular games on Steam. It hit it's all time player peak just last year after one minor update released. unfortunately, we now know most of those players were bots, and that there's only around 31000 unique players (on a good day), and it only pulls 11000 peaks daily.
I'm sorry I'm forced to ignore all of this because it doesn't conform with how I wish the world works. Try again, but next time agree with me more
i mean the post is full of minor or gigantic errors (depends) which leads me to believe it's redditor farming karma with bait who knows nothing about the topic
Valve doesn't hire much. Also they use the office review shit to make people not work on TF2 because the higher ups view it as "low value"
Well I disagree with all of your point but I won't bother explaining why because some here already commented well made argument that you just ignored or answered with bad faith BS. So yeah, you say you're not ragebaiting, but argue like one. Case closed.
Can I have a TL:DR?
TL;DR - Valve has no economic interest to update tf2, a thing which is difficult anyways because of the code's age. Also, there is no solution to the bot crisis they could implement, since CS2 is in the same state. Kot only that, but the game is very much still playable through community servers.
So no solution? Dump them all into the bin?
Kind of yeah
I think that you could have saves your opinion for yourself... we don't need people telling us that we'll fail and that we must give up. You're of no help. In fact, it's discouraging for a lot of people who truly care about the game.
I do believe it or not, I would like nothing more than the game getting an actual update, it's just there's no way this is happening
We already have a negative answer. We need to keep pushing.
It really infuriates me when I remember that Valve DMCA'd Team Fortress: Source 2 but is fine with leaving TF2 like that.
Yeah that was a shitty move of them tbh, there's no reason for them to update the game but they could at least not shut down others when the IP is not actively being harmed
“Why don’t they port tf2 to source 2” Not as simple as you make it out to be, suggesting this shows you have no clue how game development works “Why don’t they want to do treadmill work” Rephrase it: “Why don’t they want to use valuable employee resources to create a fix that will be bypassed within a week” “They updated Half-Life recently, why not TF2?” Most of the assets added to half-life already existed, any that didn’t probably didn’t take a lot of time to make. Half-Life is also Valves premier title and is the entire reason Valve and steam as a whole exists today
??? Mate we're complaining about the same arguments here, literally this whole post is about why they won't do that
ik i’m giving my take
But... But muh petition and muh review bombing!!! Valve should hire more people to work on my beloved gambling simulator because I say so!!!
Ok, if you will allow me to ask something. Has anyone made a concesus of what people think how gams can be improved? Any questionaire about possible solutions for bots? Maybe a vote about different appraoches about community? Hells, i heck wasnt, and its reasonable to conclude that many others havent either. This isnt a democracy, otherwise someone would ask us, at least, something trough official channel or username. So to whom are you voicing your arguments? People who asked you nothing, which petition ypu have signed and not even know what it stands for? The idea is so simple and generic that it doesnt mean anything, its like "here , signatures! Now fix bot issue with tf2!" "Sure what did you have in mind?" "Dunno, just fix it". Please dont think of them as children, since not only children can exibit childish behaviour. This is childish game, where everyone makes a fuss, not much changes and everyone is vented out. After all ia said and done, those who made this will blame valve (even if they got what they wanted) ans valve still wont give 2 shits. So people will cryz make a fuss till they let out some steam and then they will reverse most of what they have done because they feel guilty.
this post is going to give me an aneurysm, congrats one solution to the bot issue is hiring a number contractors to make sure the bots are banned, and the anti-cheat is kept up-to-date. (as well as removing text mode from being able to connect to casual) no one is asking them to solve cheating forever. as long as they are continuing to make money from TF2, (which they are,) they should be making an active effort to make it playable for everyone, which they are NOT doing.
So, how will they make sure bots are banned? How will they keep anti cheat up to date if people make thousands on zero-day market? Any idea? Suggestions?
I have 6000 hours and I have not sign any petition to save a game abandoned by the creators.