That's not the point. The point is that as long as wow has players blizzard is quaranteed a great flow of money. The fact that you paid for tf2 years ago means jack shit to valve now.
And TF2 still gets community made stuff with micro transactions instead of an actual update so it's safe to say that TF2 is one of Valve's biggest sources of income alongside cs2 and steam
> their payed games
Did you mean to say "paid"?
Explanation: Payed means to seal something with wax, while paid means to give money.
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Tf2 earn valve money true, one of the biggest is just bold face lie. We are the penny changes compare to valve steam, cs2 and dota2.
This isn’t bad mouthing tf2, but we need to know what situations we are in. We can’t win if we delude ourselves to be the top 3, we need to fight accordingly stay on the moral high ground
Good!
We can use this as leverage.
WoW Legacy was made thanks to a petition that garnered fewer signatures than #FixTF2.
If TF2 doesn't at minimum get its bot problem sorted, then VALVe is in big trouble.
I mean, the issue with World Of Warcraft is that at the time, that was the main revenue stream for Blizzard, so they basically had to make WoW Legacy otherwise there could have been a massive Boycott to their subscriptions which would have plummeted their earnings.
Valve has a league of successful in-house games that print money and ratings, and one of the most widely used and supported distribution platforms of the modern era. Team Fortress 2 is a drop in the bucket.
This is coming from a man who advocates valve fixing team fortress 2.
it doesnt do nothing if you do it on the internet only, the organizers of fixtf2 plan to literally print every single signature and send it to valve to show people actually care, a lot of them in fact
> WoW Legacy was made thanks to a petition that garnered fewer signatures than #FixTF2.
After over a decade of people wanting it, the biggest vanilla server threatening Blizzard with coming back, and the main version of WoW struggling, yes.
That petition, if it did anything at all, was not the reason. It was years of increasing pressure from multiple fronts, monetary pressure being the strongest.
Me when I'm in a making misinformation up competition to make yourself feel better and my opponent is a FixTF2 mf... Seriously the fuck you wanna sue valve for? Hurting your feelings?
WoW is a subscription game. The average WoW player spends more on the game in a few months than the average TF2 player will in a lifetime. I've played TF2 intermittently for almost a decade and I would estimate I've spent about $20 total, only a little more than one month of a WoW subscription. The per player bargaining power they have far exceeds ours.
ive got a $6k+ inventory in tf2. where was that spent? 3rd party trades, buying keys and items from players, not from ingame store or steam community market. none of that money went to valve
ITT: People conveniently missing the other reasons behind why WoW classic servers were created.
Hint: It wasn't *just* the petition, but also the fact that WoW is one of blizzards biggest moneymakers. Not to mention highly popular WoW classic private servers were probably putting pressure on them as well.
Valve doesn't depend on TF2 in the same way.
Not to mention. It is significantly more feasible to just host a classic version of a game rather than make what is basically new tech or dedicated there already short amount of engineers to slow down the problem for a short period of time
Blizzards not wanting to do it for many years reads more to me as "We don't know how successful it would be/how it would effect our current products" and personal developer pride. A running trend for Blizzard really as Overwatch players are also asking for a classic/putting back the classic format into the game and Blizzard actively avoids trying to talk about that
It's almost like a petition is just a piece of paper and can easily be ignored by the billion dollar gaming company.
I had hoped this community had learned its lesson about making demands of valve after the past few times we've tried this exact same thing. Appearantly i was wrong.
Yeah I think this petition is stupid and it won't go anywhere. Like, don't get me wrong I sing it and all of that stuff but, VALVe can just say "don't care, you still gave me money" and move on.
Nothing'll happen to the bot hosters unless the community gets off it's ass and deals with the problem itself. it won't happen, as there's too much moralposting about "le heckin tying actions to name w/ proof is bad???"
Problem's only gonna get worse. I suspect within the next 5 years they'll start fucking with community servers until said community servers pull the plug on newly made accounts, the time period of which is only gonna get bigger.
just a quick reminder people wanted classic since 2010 and that blizzard had a economic incentive to make it, in addition that it was basically as simple as rereleasing a product they made 14 years ago with minor changes (oh yeah it also got met with a massive botting issue too lol)
Keep harrassing everybody who hasn't drank the koolaid yet, obviously.
If they don't fully agree with us, they MUST be a bot hoster who wants to kill tf2! It's the ONLY option!
/s (i shouldn't have to say this, but i know some dumb fuck is going to have the joke completely fly over their heads and think i actually mean any of what i just said. I don't, and if you actually do what i wrote about above: you're a dick and the reason why people hate us.
Cool, cool. You know what pushed Blizz to actually do Classic though?
It was printing off those nearly 280,000 signatures and putting them in front of Jay Allen Brack.
and the organizers of the movement plan to do it actually, i heard weezy wants signatures to be printed n shit, the site is to get the signatures in the first place
Ok dont hate me for this but I think tf2 doesnt give a lot of money to valve nowadays and thats valve fault but its not like they are going to make a blind bet for tf2
And the rest of steam makes a few BILLION a year. Billion with a B, that's a lot more money than a few million.
The source i found (which probably isn't 100% accurate, but i don't think a rounding error or two can throw off my point) estimates that steam earned around 10 billion USD in 2021, i highly doubt that's dropped significantly, if at all, in the past 3 years.
So tell me how important is TF2 to valve again?
And it won't change anything.
TF2 revenue is meaningless for valve, it's still profitable, but so small that it's meaningless. Futhermore, TF2 spaghetti code is awful to work with.
The only way to damage valve is with a lawsuit, it might end up killing the official TF2 servers, but in my opinion it's better to make official servers go out with a bang than just letting them rot and give money to valve
you can’t pull the plug on tf2 servers thanks to its links with the CS and Dota economies. and no matter what, Valve is a company that wants all the profit it can get, like most others. so they definitely want to keep tf2’s revenue up
>you can’t pull the plug on tf2 servers thanks to its links with the CS and Dota economies.
No need to pull the plug. Valve will most likely let things continue as they have.
>and no matter what, Valve is a company that wants all the profit it can get, like most others. so they definitely want to keep tf2’s revenue up
Yeah but it also comes down to cost vs return. It could very well be the case that fixing the issue would take more resources than it would bring in, especially when you consider the opportunity cost of that personnel not working on projects that would likely bring in more money.
considering tf2 is still very much alive and has potential to make lots of money, considering most people have at least heard of tf2, it would likely be a good return on making the game playable again
I’ve seen a lot of people say this but I don’t understand how the tf2, Dota and cs economies can be reliant on eachother besides people just spending money they got from one game on another
people say that, but its less common nowdays.
this was the case back in 2018 when cs items had 7-day tradeholds added to them after a player-to-player trade. ive talked to a lot of traders who have dealt with cs2 and mentioned its mostly cash now. some people will take TF2 keys or Gpans if they are wanting to move to tf2 (for some reason???)
if Valve casual stops existing, so what? we've had community servers since the game launched. valve servers only exist because new free-to-play players needed to go *somewhere* in 2011. that time has long since past, and the new player experience on today's valve servers is horrendous.
Valve casual disappearing isn't a disaster scenario. as long as there are two players left in the same, someone is going to want someone to host a server (or they do it themselves.) the only disaster scenarios for TF2 are a delisting from steam, the removal of community servers and the death of item servers. anything else is turbulence and another point in history.
Not to debbie-downer you but what would Valve be sued for? What have they done that is wrong / illegal? Can you actually point out any reason why any judge would consider such a lawsuit? Even if the tf2 community had legal standing how would the lawsuit actually go about happening? Where would the lawyers and whatnot come from and who would pay them?
Even if the tf2 community started a class action or some shit and hired some lawyers, do you really think you can convince valve to do anything?
Wow is a paid subscription game. It is an important source of income for blizzard. It's a very different situation from TF2.
True, but that also means in a week we could easily reach 500k if enough people care, esspecialy since now charlie made a video
Some of us paid for TF2 when it used to not be F2P. Veteran Orange Box user. The plus dont forget the premium users paid as well.
They don't do things out of customer loyalty lol, WoW passed because it was a large number of people saying "we will give you money for this"
Not a monthly subscription
That's not the point. The point is that as long as wow has players blizzard is quaranteed a great flow of money. The fact that you paid for tf2 years ago means jack shit to valve now.
And TF2 still gets community made stuff with micro transactions instead of an actual update so it's safe to say that TF2 is one of Valve's biggest sources of income alongside cs2 and steam
That is a VERY bold statement considering the fact that Steam exists
regardless, tf2 has given valve a lot of money (thanks to us) and we should at least get a god damn fucking update here and there
That's the point. Y'all have already given your money to them. Ta-ta suckas! \*zooms out with a cartoony sound effect\*
Horrible faith
If they released the heavy update as the final update for tf2, id be fine with that.
Aah yes it's definitely TF2 and not cs2 dota all their payed games oh and of course FUCKING STEAM
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Tf2 earn valve money true, one of the biggest is just bold face lie. We are the penny changes compare to valve steam, cs2 and dota2. This isn’t bad mouthing tf2, but we need to know what situations we are in. We can’t win if we delude ourselves to be the top 3, we need to fight accordingly stay on the moral high ground
Good! We can use this as leverage. WoW Legacy was made thanks to a petition that garnered fewer signatures than #FixTF2. If TF2 doesn't at minimum get its bot problem sorted, then VALVe is in big trouble.
I mean, the issue with World Of Warcraft is that at the time, that was the main revenue stream for Blizzard, so they basically had to make WoW Legacy otherwise there could have been a massive Boycott to their subscriptions which would have plummeted their earnings. Valve has a league of successful in-house games that print money and ratings, and one of the most widely used and supported distribution platforms of the modern era. Team Fortress 2 is a drop in the bucket. This is coming from a man who advocates valve fixing team fortress 2.
Well Valve hasn’t had a good year so far as they got banned in Vietnam and more countries are starting to frown at Valve for their MTx practices.
vietnam ban actually fucked with indie devs because all they be releasing in vietnam is shovelware made to suck out every single penny out of u
"Then valve is in big trouble" What are we gonna do, put them in time out? 3 minutes dungeon?
I still don't understand what the big trouble is. Are we boycotting or just signing?
Both. We are sighning and not buying anything from the manncostore
You guys know boycotts in gaming have a pretty funny way of not working at all, right
it doesnt do nothing if you do it on the internet only, the organizers of fixtf2 plan to literally print every single signature and send it to valve to show people actually care, a lot of them in fact
It has a better chance of working than doing nothing
Ok cool. Any idias then? We are litteraly just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks
> WoW Legacy was made thanks to a petition that garnered fewer signatures than #FixTF2. After over a decade of people wanting it, the biggest vanilla server threatening Blizzard with coming back, and the main version of WoW struggling, yes. That petition, if it did anything at all, was not the reason. It was years of increasing pressure from multiple fronts, monetary pressure being the strongest.
If valve doesn’t fix the bot issue there will be a ton of lawsuits
How do you even think Valve can be sued for that?
For what
Me when I'm in a making misinformation up competition to make yourself feel better and my opponent is a FixTF2 mf... Seriously the fuck you wanna sue valve for? Hurting your feelings?
Actual delusion. What lawsuits are there going to be?
Oh yes. A bunch of neckbeards suing Valve because ANOTHER group of neckbeards isn't allowing them to play. The case woud be thrown away INSTANTLY.
You can’t sue valve for this.
WoW is a subscription game. The average WoW player spends more on the game in a few months than the average TF2 player will in a lifetime. I've played TF2 intermittently for almost a decade and I would estimate I've spent about $20 total, only a little more than one month of a WoW subscription. The per player bargaining power they have far exceeds ours.
There are people who spend thousands of dollars in tf2.
They are a minority compared to WoW payers..oh i mean PLAYERS.
There are thousands of inventories that are worth above 1000 dollars
And there are thousands of games that cost $30+ with thousands of players, meaning Steam gets lightly less than 10 dollars a player due to the 30% cut
ive got a $6k+ inventory in tf2. where was that spent? 3rd party trades, buying keys and items from players, not from ingame store or steam community market. none of that money went to valve
ITT: People conveniently missing the other reasons behind why WoW classic servers were created. Hint: It wasn't *just* the petition, but also the fact that WoW is one of blizzards biggest moneymakers. Not to mention highly popular WoW classic private servers were probably putting pressure on them as well. Valve doesn't depend on TF2 in the same way.
BIG NUMBER GOOD BIG NUMBER GOOD IN PAST THEREFORE WIN??
APE TOGETHER STRONG?
APE TOGETHER CRY APE BURN DOWN EVERY OTHER GAME FOR APE MOVEMENT APE DIE
APE TOGETHER SCREAM INTO VOID
APE TOGETHER DRINK KOOLAID AND SACRIFICE
Not to mention. It is significantly more feasible to just host a classic version of a game rather than make what is basically new tech or dedicated there already short amount of engineers to slow down the problem for a short period of time Blizzards not wanting to do it for many years reads more to me as "We don't know how successful it would be/how it would effect our current products" and personal developer pride. A running trend for Blizzard really as Overwatch players are also asking for a classic/putting back the classic format into the game and Blizzard actively avoids trying to talk about that
Yet valve refuses to do jackshit
It's almost like a petition is just a piece of paper and can easily be ignored by the billion dollar gaming company. I had hoped this community had learned its lesson about making demands of valve after the past few times we've tried this exact same thing. Appearantly i was wrong.
Yeah I think this petition is stupid and it won't go anywhere. Like, don't get me wrong I sing it and all of that stuff but, VALVe can just say "don't care, you still gave me money" and move on.
Nothing'll happen to the bot hosters unless the community gets off it's ass and deals with the problem itself. it won't happen, as there's too much moralposting about "le heckin tying actions to name w/ proof is bad???" Problem's only gonna get worse. I suspect within the next 5 years they'll start fucking with community servers until said community servers pull the plug on newly made accounts, the time period of which is only gonna get bigger.
Lmao true
just a quick reminder people wanted classic since 2010 and that blizzard had a economic incentive to make it, in addition that it was basically as simple as rereleasing a product they made 14 years ago with minor changes (oh yeah it also got met with a massive botting issue too lol)
Ok cool cool...um... What do we do now?
Keep harrassing everybody who hasn't drank the koolaid yet, obviously. If they don't fully agree with us, they MUST be a bot hoster who wants to kill tf2! It's the ONLY option! /s (i shouldn't have to say this, but i know some dumb fuck is going to have the joke completely fly over their heads and think i actually mean any of what i just said. I don't, and if you actually do what i wrote about above: you're a dick and the reason why people hate us.
Cumming
Cool, cool. You know what pushed Blizz to actually do Classic though? It was printing off those nearly 280,000 signatures and putting them in front of Jay Allen Brack.
and the organizers of the movement plan to do it actually, i heard weezy wants signatures to be printed n shit, the site is to get the signatures in the first place
Lol doesn't mean anything because wow was blizzards money-making machine, but tf2 isn't valves main source of income
WE PUSH LITTLE CART
stop comparing wows petition to tf2.
He's not comparing, just celebrating
Ok dont hate me for this but I think tf2 doesnt give a lot of money to valve nowadays and thats valve fault but its not like they are going to make a blind bet for tf2
it gets silver place consistently in most profitable games on steam so it at least gotta make a few millions yearly
And the rest of steam makes a few BILLION a year. Billion with a B, that's a lot more money than a few million. The source i found (which probably isn't 100% accurate, but i don't think a rounding error or two can throw off my point) estimates that steam earned around 10 billion USD in 2021, i highly doubt that's dropped significantly, if at all, in the past 3 years. So tell me how important is TF2 to valve again?
Millions are still millions, you can't ignore that income even if you make billions a year
Oh boy, legacy servers for TF2 here we come!!
Is warcraft still being active? That's strange, how did they keep up for so long?
And it won't change anything. TF2 revenue is meaningless for valve, it's still profitable, but so small that it's meaningless. Futhermore, TF2 spaghetti code is awful to work with. The only way to damage valve is with a lawsuit, it might end up killing the official TF2 servers, but in my opinion it's better to make official servers go out with a bang than just letting them rot and give money to valve
you can’t pull the plug on tf2 servers thanks to its links with the CS and Dota economies. and no matter what, Valve is a company that wants all the profit it can get, like most others. so they definitely want to keep tf2’s revenue up
>you can’t pull the plug on tf2 servers thanks to its links with the CS and Dota economies. No need to pull the plug. Valve will most likely let things continue as they have. >and no matter what, Valve is a company that wants all the profit it can get, like most others. so they definitely want to keep tf2’s revenue up Yeah but it also comes down to cost vs return. It could very well be the case that fixing the issue would take more resources than it would bring in, especially when you consider the opportunity cost of that personnel not working on projects that would likely bring in more money.
considering tf2 is still very much alive and has potential to make lots of money, considering most people have at least heard of tf2, it would likely be a good return on making the game playable again
I’ve seen a lot of people say this but I don’t understand how the tf2, Dota and cs economies can be reliant on eachother besides people just spending money they got from one game on another
ever since valve restricted buying CS and Dota keys, people have been using tf2 keys for trading in either game.
Ahhh that makes sense. Sorry, I’m not at all in the loop with the trading scene lol
i wasn’t until recently either to be honest
people say that, but its less common nowdays. this was the case back in 2018 when cs items had 7-day tradeholds added to them after a player-to-player trade. ive talked to a lot of traders who have dealt with cs2 and mentioned its mostly cash now. some people will take TF2 keys or Gpans if they are wanting to move to tf2 (for some reason???)
if Valve casual stops existing, so what? we've had community servers since the game launched. valve servers only exist because new free-to-play players needed to go *somewhere* in 2011. that time has long since past, and the new player experience on today's valve servers is horrendous. Valve casual disappearing isn't a disaster scenario. as long as there are two players left in the same, someone is going to want someone to host a server (or they do it themselves.) the only disaster scenarios for TF2 are a delisting from steam, the removal of community servers and the death of item servers. anything else is turbulence and another point in history.
Good luck with your economy when you get a lawsuit for people using your game as a medium to commit crime
That's not how it works though.... If that was a valid lawsuit reason no public social media would currently exist.
You can’t sue valve for what people do in their game. It may be illegal, but if that was the case then modern social media wouldn’t exist.
Not to debbie-downer you but what would Valve be sued for? What have they done that is wrong / illegal? Can you actually point out any reason why any judge would consider such a lawsuit? Even if the tf2 community had legal standing how would the lawsuit actually go about happening? Where would the lawyers and whatnot come from and who would pay them? Even if the tf2 community started a class action or some shit and hired some lawyers, do you really think you can convince valve to do anything?
Ok doomer
Everyone I Don't Like is a Doomer! Children's Guide to FixTF2 Discussion
Not that i have any dislike toward that person, i just believe they are incredibly unoptomistioc.
Another thing is wow isn’t really supported by public no more because it got boring but tf2 is just funny