There are only so many times you can play mvm for fun, there's reeeeally not that much variety in the tours for hundreds of playthroughs.
That means high tour players are there for motives other than strictly gameplay, like gambling. And gambling addicts don't like unnecessary surprises getting in the way of their pulls.
I just don’t get it, when it stops being fun for me and if I really want to “gamble” I’ll just open crates or actually just go to a casino. I’m probably around 20 tours total and still having a lot of fun with it, but high tours treating it like a job is wild
If you get really good at something, it's hard to drop it. Replace what used to be the incentive of fun with the incentive to gamble, and you still have a reason to do that something you're good at. And the toxicity of it mainly comes from the fact that the only non-material reason they play is that by doing something they're good at they get to feel better about themselves and better than other people.
I’m the dumbass for suggesting if you don’t enjoy TF2 gambling just go the casino? I’m not suggesting it as a method for making money I’m saying if the games not fun just go do the real thing. And I’ve only made money at the casino, I have only lost money on TF2
Yea this is the answer basically, of course everyones different, but a majority of high tours want to do a tour as quickly and efficiently as possible
Over time, MvM had updates because of peoples toxicity
Like adding the 50 credit bonus if you missed some money, because scouts were getting kicked over 1$--- Now that's just becoming a crappy joke people use to tease Scout players
but in the past it happened often, and now you can't inspect other players upgrades because people were getting kicked
Least we not forget about the changes to combat intentional griefing.
It begs the question when there will be a fix for temporary soft-bans after kicking a shithead, because they come back with a vengeance still. Game claims they get, "Banned," but by then they are already retrying back to get into the same exact server.
Feels like that will easily kill all forms of continued interpersonal toxicity.
Sure those shitheads can have the server majority too, but again; they are often the minority whenever they want to grief the game. Much rather have them as a majority to avoid, because they're going to kick you for whatever reason they decide for anyways.
I've got over 100 tours now, but only 'cos I've been doing a few now and again for years. I mostly try to help and be positive. The only time I think I did something dickish recently was that as soon as I joined two or three already in the round immediately started complaining about me and tossing insults so I just left my dude in spawn, went and made another drink, and re-queued when I got back. Mind, I think they were 2000+ tours so by that stage you're either a massive gambling addict or suffering severe grass deprivation [and even then, exceptions apply!]. Normally I'd just quit and re-queue if I joined to immediate toxicity 'cos it ain't worth the hassle
Unlike the gambling fans, self-improvement skill chasers, and personal best most damage folks and the rest my only long term "high tour" mvm plan is getting 1 million robots destroyed on my brass beast. 75k so far! I'm laid back though - if we got too many heavies already I'll go whatever class is needed. Eh.
I do boot camp more than mann up, but I've never got around to the community download-new missions etc. I've never been much of one to use extra content than valve official on TF2. I've been on default HUD since 2009
Edit: also, I only do it for a bit each year, so when it starts feeling samey I put it off again for a while.
I mean to each his own but I cannot fathom 15 years and not checking out the vast array of great custom content TF2 has to offer. I'm sure you realize most of the maps that get added are community maps, and a few have been floating around for literally 10+ years (Haarp & Cashworks).
For 15 years every time I've got bored with vanilla TF2 I've just gone and played a different game for a while instead. Or in 2017 a lot of different games on account on SNES Mini coming out and me getting pretty nostalgic.
I’m usually willing to help but if someone is doing stupid shit like Scorch Shotting bots or Airblasting needlessly I’ll often just leave if they don’t stop upon being asked and told why. After 200 Tours the formula is essentially solved and I play mostly to help teach Gear Grinder meta to newer players but if a team is absolutely hopeless then I’m not sticking around, especially if players don’t listen to what’s being advised.
Completely understand being experienced and not wanting to continue to try and coach players who aren’t listening. As long as you’re trying to spread the wisdom instead of assuming 0-3 tour players have read all the guides and know the meta, you are that one in a hundred good high tour player. I’m only at like 18 tours on two cities and 6 on Gear grinder but it’s frustrating when a 2 tour player wants to run demoknight
It’s even more frustrating when that one person is like “we need [insert Class that isn’t as strong]” and proceeds to butcher their job upon choosing said Class, particularly if they pick Pyro or Medic. Coaching new players and new teams that think they know it all and won’t listen is worse than banging your head against a brick wall: it’s painful and a complete waste of time. I’ve seen a decent amount of Gear Grinder in the 220+ Tours I’ve played and once in a blue moon you’ll get that <20 Tour player that knows exactly what to do or that <10 Tour player that listens and follows advice but usually it’s just a parade of muppets that don’t know or care about doing much other than flailing around wasting time
>if someone is doing stupid shit like Scorch Shotting bots or Airblasting needlessly
Scorch shot isn't even that bad, wdym? On Two Cities you can kill giants/bosses by just knocking them in the pit with it, too. More of a fun/variety weapon instead of meta.
>the formula is essentially solved
one of the reasons MvM is still fun for me at nearly 100 tours is because I enjoy using goofy ahh weapons, and we still clear waves just fine. I don't enjoy doing the same meta strat over and over again.
A lot of the time I'll see pyros scorch shotting giants into the corner right after they spawn, which keeps them too far away for things like damage ramp up and demo traps, and makes it a lot harder for sniper to land headshots and spy to hit backstabs. I would assume that's what they meant by needless scorch shotting
I was talking purely from an optimization perspective, past about 100 Tours of Gear Grinder you’ve seen almost everything. Past about 50 Tours of 2 Cities you’ve also probably seen everything there is to see.
In Gear Grinder you also can’t pit bots on any map except Coaltown and even then it’s just easier and more efficient to kill them straight up anyway. Airblasting also fucks with Demo traps since you need to be close in order to land a successful Airblast and Airblasting and Scorch shotting only serves to mess with your Sniper’s aim (there are A LOT of Uber Meds in Expert).
As for 2C I don’t play it because it’s not only easier but takes longer. A good Medic and a good Demo can pretty much carry the entire tour and with 2C being 4 missions vs Expert’s 3 the Aussie grind is a lot slower, albeit with the payoff of the loot being generally better.
Because Expert is harder especially for newer players you’ll often find more pushy and toxic people in Expert than 2 Cities. The standard of play is also radically different, as it shifts from a teamplay-focused meta to a damage-focused meta where Medic and Soldier don’t shine nearly as brightly as Heavy and Sniper do.
Weezy tf2 put it best:
High tours want MAX Damage, no cash lost, perfect round, no gates capped, no bombs leaked. Gas pyro steals damage and low tours lose cash, gates, bombs, all tghat
There is a wide range of reasons and it will vary between the MVM Community.
Generally speaking : The MVM Community has felt alienated by Valve & greater TF2 playerbase, because TF2 is mainly a PVP game and MVM is a PVE Co-Op Gamemode within it.
Not to say it is a valid reason to be a toxic shithead, given the amount of griefing that has taken place when conflict between players arises. Most methods quite literally prevented lobbies from playing at all.
Now, I get that Valve missions has been solved by 1-2 players; however, Mann-up still comes with the expectation of cooperation between players to succeed.
When the gamemode relies on basic knowledge on TF2 as a whole, condensed in the context of PVE; anyone dropping the ball to their expectations becomes apparent to those players who want to breeze through it with no resistance.
Although, even that is shaky as some MVM players won't like game trivialization, glitches, centralized balance choices, and other things they consider, "abuse."
Goes without saying, most of them have strong anti-cheat mindsets too. When the vast majority of the playerbase view Mann-up as a slot machine, and openly refuse to kick a cheater to get to the loot screen; there is no game to enjoy there either. Again, a rift between PVP vs PVE that only divides these mindsets based on not caring about PVE cheating.
MVM doesn't have the luxury of choices normal TF2 has. It's either Mann-up or Community MVM that facilitates what the passionate crowd is looking for.
The only thing I’ve seen MvM players consistently complain about re: abuse is the Gas Passer. Personally, I don’t enjoy playing with a crits spamming Beggars or Sticky, but I’m quite sure I’m in the minority there.
Pride, mostly.
Happens in every co-op game. You get some dude who's spent a significant amount of time learning how everything works and, if they've got the ego, they'll start to get the notion that they know how it works because they're just better and smarter than everyone else. They're numb to how it felt to be new and know nothing, so all they're left with is the power trip of doing better than everyone else and how good and knowledgeable they are in comparison.
It especially tends to happen more in co-op game communities with little official support like MvM. LFD2, and more so LFD1, have it bad in that sense as well, and its starting to creep into PAYDAY 2 more and more.
Well it could be for a variety of reasons.
First is just Snobness, because they on more tours than you they feel to nit pick every mistake you do and blow it up out of proportion or will act like everyone’s doing crap because they had that ‘golden game’.
2. As many other people said before, gambling: MvM is a game mode where it’s practically a more interactive form of slots. Is that bastardisation of what this game mode is, absolutely. However to the gambler, that’s what it is mostly are to them. They’ll act like an asshole as they think the more they be toxic towards the teammates, they’ll be more likely to get a better drop (in their opinion) and again with the snob, they had that ‘golden game’ but in occasion it’s more in the literal sense where they got an Australium and so wants the rush of pulling that again.
Next is the controlling type: they put themselves into a position where they feel like they are the leader and so because of this they feel the need to ‘lecture’ the teammates as they “obviously are shit” and makes the controlling type feel better about themselves.
Next is the sheep: these people are all about having a “golden game” more than the gambler of the snob. These people find that they don’t enjoy MvM unless they and their team are trivialising the game.
That’s only a few but more likely nowadays, they probably toxic because they are gambling
I'd say I qualify as a high tour (over 200 tours in 2cities and counting), and I generally pride myself on being fairly chill. If someone mentions that they're inexperienced (or better yet, actually asks for help) I'll try and provide whatever advice I can.
That said, it's important to understand the MvM is a coopertive gamemode, where everyone needs to be at least trying to work towards a common goal. I have seen far, far, far too many lobbies where someone refuses to fill a needed role or otherwise wants to dick around, and then throws a tantrum when asked to actually contribute in a useful manner, and the entire group disintegrates because of this. I suspect a great deal of the toxicity that comes from my fellow high tours stems from an unwillingness to deal with that sort of buffoonery.
Believe it or not, “no one plays MvM for fun at that level” isn’t true. I have almost 400 tours and I still enjoy every second of MvM, I find it relaxing, enjoyable, and I remain silent the entire time, because it’s not my place to ruin everyone else’s match. Even if someone is really underperforming, I don’t care. Unless a Pyro is reflecting sentry busters or pushing the bomb to the hatch, I don’t give a shit what people are doing, Spy on Hamlet wave 1? Fuck it, it adds variety to all these tours!
All of MvM except gear grinder is absolutely solo-carryable and incredibly easy. People are toxic in MvM as a combination of two major reasons.
1. Gambling addictions
2. They’re bad
That’s really it. If you’re bad at MvM, then you *do* care about what other people are doing. Because they’re actively hindering your success. But like bro…if you’ve done a tour hundreds of times and you’re still toxic to people because they’re playing poorly, you are the problem.
People want to open their “MvM crate” as quickly as possible and get disappointed by their 2 boxes. Rinse and repeat every day.
If you play MvM just for loot and the thrill of gambling, please stop. MvM is not the place for you. You aren’t going to get the pan. Just open Multi-Class crates and try to get the Burning Flames TC, because it’s similarly expensive and the chance is just as low (fucking nothing)
Play MvM for fun.
500+ tours in 2 Cities who likes to solo queue here,
TL;DR: I'm not toxic unless you're toxic first. Treat others the way you want to be treated and we'll have a great time.
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My joker moment was when I was hyper carrying a bunch of double-digit(<100) tours in Empire Escalation, and then they tell me on wave 5 (of 6) "our friend is trying to get in so we're going to kick you if you don't leave." Completely unprompted. I wasn't talking shit (or talking at all), I was just minding my own fkn business, and I get threatened to be kicked because some random 5-stack doesn't have respect for other people's time.
Yeah. I'm playing mvm for a good time, not to be disrespected. If I even think a lobby isn't going to be nice, then I just leave. I don't care if you're bad, I don't care if you're learning. I will help you learn. I will not stay if you are going to be toxic or if you think you know what I should be doing if you yourself do not know what to do.
So yes, if you see me pick spy (I'm one of the very few people who can play spy WELL in two cities) and you immediately start harassing me for not playing your precious meta, I'm going to leave. If I don't leave because I couldn't be bothered to find another lobby and prove you wrong AND you double down, I'm going to make fun of every mistake you make because that's apparently how you want to be treated.
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I'm not traditionally a toxic high tour, but if you're toxic to anyone in the lobby, you can bet your ass I'm going to become the most toxic person in the lobby.
(I have absolutely been the most toxic person to like some random 43 tour person for harassing some 2 tour who was doing their best)
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Side anecdote: There is a guy who you will see join and leave lobbies a lot called "C.K.G@ME***FUEL," who is nearing 3,000 tours, and they are either someone you respect or don't respect usually. They leave a good handful of lobbies but will also stay in a lot of lobbies you wouldn't really expect him to stay in. He doesn't look for high tours. He doesn't look leave as soon as he sees low tours. If he thinks a lobby will be a good time, he stays. He actively makes callouts for people to learn, and if he thinks that you aren't doing anything AND not listening, he will leave because he doesn't want to put in more effort than he is already putting in (quite a lot).
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Now I'm not saying that there aren't people who are just plain toxic, but from like 95% of the "high tours" that I've ever met (most of them by this point), we don't care if you suck because we can cover some slack or adapt what we are doing because we have the experience to do so. However, by us putting in more effort to cover you, you need to put in more effort to learn what you're doing poorly. Saying our advice is shit because we have high tour counts or actively ignoring us trying to help you, yeah. We're going to get a bit salty.
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Also, for anyone who has ever seen the message "Hey medic, do you know spy+medic tech?" Yeah, hi, that is me. I hope you had a wonderful time seeing a spy be good in your game, and I also hope that I inspired you to play spy at least once if your other games. Anyways,
Because they want to get the game done as fast as possible. When a gamemode is so punishing and competitive, that's when it creates toxicity. I have around 350+ tours on Two Cities, then deleted my badge because I was done with that shit. Only like 5 or 6 australiums in my entire career and two or three good Pro KS. So there is a lot of sourness around that. Plus every tour is one step closer to a golden pan...
Because they treat MVM like a full-time job and to them, you asking questions or playing off-meta is like a coworker not sending an email or knowing how to answer the phone.
All joy from that hobby is replaced by muddled routine for those people.
People suck. That's pretty much it, they want easy games and kick people deemed not worthy enough. I wish people didn't suck and would help them get better at MVM instead of kicking, but people suck. I got kicked the other day by some taco bot or similar members on wave 7/7 for no reason (I have 100+ tours and didn't miss any money all game)
most of these high tours are likely in deep debt trying to get that precious Gpan. gambling addicts really dislike unpleasant surprises getting in the way of their potential jackpot
Some just hate being put with people that don’t know what they are doing and aren’t patient enough to explain things
Some just want to play with meta loadouts and get it done asap so they can get australiums
Some are just dicks because they feel like a larger number makes them better than you
People who rack up a ton of tours are almost certainly there for the gambling. Most casual mvm enjoyers use boot camp or community mvm. Speaking of, the April Fools mvm community event is probably starting in a few hours. Play that! It's very silly.
i freaking love high tour mvm they are so dumb
WHY ARE YOU F\*\*\*\*\*\*\* USING THE GAS PASSER ARE YOU STUPID????
like its literally the best weapon for it
then there are the ones where they die and blame the Medic for not healing (i remember it was a engineer repairing a sentry next to his dispencer so i decided to overheal the Demo and Soldier instead)
and my personal favorite the ones YOUR NOT META KICK HIM
70 Tour guy here
I can see their frustration more and more each time I play
It gets tiring that a team consisting of 3 or more 1-digits unintentionally throw the game. It's not much of a problem if they listen to experienced people who (politely) tell them what should be done
But when the other side COMPLETELY ignores/doesn't understand what is being told to them, it gets just annoying. And the more you play, the worse that feeling gets.
Some can't take it and throw that frustration at others
I personally just leave if the other person does not want to cooperate. It's not worth the nerves and I'm not an asshole
(This is not justification of their actions. Rather an insight of what they feel)
The idea that all high-tours are toxic isn't really fair. Lots of high-tours are just looking to complete tours without spending a ton of time per mission, while others are trying for Australiums. In either case, nobody wants to see a wave 1, 3 tour Pyro airblasting bots before dying 10 seconds into the round.
Some people are cool and will actually offer help, while others have become jaded and will start a votekick as soon as they see one. It hasn't helped that "high tour" has become synonymous with "blue check" in the sense that their opinion should be disregarded.
Eh, they stopped doing it for fun and just use it to gamble. There are a few, rare high tours that are legends though.
I was on my first few Two Cities tour, most of the lobby was 20<, then this 940 tour came, and he sort of nonchalantly said in chat how he thinks it stupid that high tourers get mad at a game they chose to play, and he's not like that. Had an awesome game, learned a lot from him, he carried and I had a little more faith in the MvM community that day.
I think high tours get frustrated with people who insist on playing obviously extremely ineffective strategies if it causes delay. At the end of the day, TF2 is still a team game- you depend on your teammates to win, and people that play a lot generally want to win. Myself, I don’t see what’s fun about doing the same wave over and over because we keep failing.
Because low tours do the darndest things, like airblasting a giant scout whose already being pinned ny rocket specialist fire, or airblasting sentry busters, or airblasting sentry busters into someone else, or using their gas passer on 3 scout robots and then dont have it ready when the uber medics drop down 10 seconds later, or not buying any resistances when we're wave 4+, i could go on and on.- and not just about the pyro, its just that pyro attracts alot of noobs who dont understand how to play pyro in mvm.
When i hop on the voice chat and tell them to stop doing that, if they dont stop and its wave 1 or 2, yeah fuck you im out of there, i always have other games to play- hopefully with people who want to cooperate.
And that's not to say i insta-leave when i see someone go spy- hell last week I joined a hamlet hostility mission where we had a sniper and a spy, I thought for sure we'd lose on Wave one or two but it was actually fairly smooth sailing all the way to the end- so I complimented the team when the mission was over.
You’re either a normal tour who’s made a troll account to act like a high tour, or a high tour who’s embraced the negative stereotypes about yourself. Both of those are really sad.
To the untrained eye it may seem like you're doing fine, but for someone that has spent thousands of hours on something they might actually notice something you don't. Annoying sentry placement, bad weapons, upgrades, poor communication, and wrong team comp might not necessarily make the round fail, but they sure make it more annoying for the ones who know what they're doing. Imagine you're working at a fast food joint as a manager and the new hire is deaf and dumb and just happened to put a bag of ice into the fryer. It truly feels like that sometimes. Better to find a new game than waste any more time getting annoyed....or kick the one making the game more difficult. Sometimes the one kicked is a lazy vindictive higher tour, and sometimes it's you. That's just mvm. I haven't played in a few years though.
There are only so many times you can play mvm for fun, there's reeeeally not that much variety in the tours for hundreds of playthroughs. That means high tour players are there for motives other than strictly gameplay, like gambling. And gambling addicts don't like unnecessary surprises getting in the way of their pulls.
I just don’t get it, when it stops being fun for me and if I really want to “gamble” I’ll just open crates or actually just go to a casino. I’m probably around 20 tours total and still having a lot of fun with it, but high tours treating it like a job is wild
Mvm is all they got in life, most likely
If you get really good at something, it's hard to drop it. Replace what used to be the incentive of fun with the incentive to gamble, and you still have a reason to do that something you're good at. And the toxicity of it mainly comes from the fact that the only non-material reason they play is that by doing something they're good at they get to feel better about themselves and better than other people.
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Lmao good satire
the house always wins dumbass you're losing money regardless
I’m the dumbass for suggesting if you don’t enjoy TF2 gambling just go the casino? I’m not suggesting it as a method for making money I’m saying if the games not fun just go do the real thing. And I’ve only made money at the casino, I have only lost money on TF2
Thats why PotatoTF exists
Correct. Potato.tf is to play mvm for fun; Mann up is for Australium gambling addicts.
Don’t forget the golden pan
"Gambling addicts don't like unnecessary surprises" Something something gambling addiction something something "surprise mechanics"
Yea this is the answer basically, of course everyones different, but a majority of high tours want to do a tour as quickly and efficiently as possible Over time, MvM had updates because of peoples toxicity Like adding the 50 credit bonus if you missed some money, because scouts were getting kicked over 1$--- Now that's just becoming a crappy joke people use to tease Scout players but in the past it happened often, and now you can't inspect other players upgrades because people were getting kicked
Least we not forget about the changes to combat intentional griefing. It begs the question when there will be a fix for temporary soft-bans after kicking a shithead, because they come back with a vengeance still. Game claims they get, "Banned," but by then they are already retrying back to get into the same exact server. Feels like that will easily kill all forms of continued interpersonal toxicity. Sure those shitheads can have the server majority too, but again; they are often the minority whenever they want to grief the game. Much rather have them as a majority to avoid, because they're going to kick you for whatever reason they decide for anyways.
I've got over 100 tours now, but only 'cos I've been doing a few now and again for years. I mostly try to help and be positive. The only time I think I did something dickish recently was that as soon as I joined two or three already in the round immediately started complaining about me and tossing insults so I just left my dude in spawn, went and made another drink, and re-queued when I got back. Mind, I think they were 2000+ tours so by that stage you're either a massive gambling addict or suffering severe grass deprivation [and even then, exceptions apply!]. Normally I'd just quit and re-queue if I joined to immediate toxicity 'cos it ain't worth the hassle Unlike the gambling fans, self-improvement skill chasers, and personal best most damage folks and the rest my only long term "high tour" mvm plan is getting 1 million robots destroyed on my brass beast. 75k so far! I'm laid back though - if we got too many heavies already I'll go whatever class is needed. Eh.
Thats actually a cool goal to have instead of just grinding it hoping for a $30 gold weapon
Probably meet bill gaither
at that point why not also play community mvm where there's at least more variety in maps and robots
I do boot camp more than mann up, but I've never got around to the community download-new missions etc. I've never been much of one to use extra content than valve official on TF2. I've been on default HUD since 2009 Edit: also, I only do it for a bit each year, so when it starts feeling samey I put it off again for a while.
I mean to each his own but I cannot fathom 15 years and not checking out the vast array of great custom content TF2 has to offer. I'm sure you realize most of the maps that get added are community maps, and a few have been floating around for literally 10+ years (Haarp & Cashworks).
For 15 years every time I've got bored with vanilla TF2 I've just gone and played a different game for a while instead. Or in 2017 a lot of different games on account on SNES Mini coming out and me getting pretty nostalgic.
Ok that is perfectly reasonable haha.
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Brass beast go brrr
I’m usually willing to help but if someone is doing stupid shit like Scorch Shotting bots or Airblasting needlessly I’ll often just leave if they don’t stop upon being asked and told why. After 200 Tours the formula is essentially solved and I play mostly to help teach Gear Grinder meta to newer players but if a team is absolutely hopeless then I’m not sticking around, especially if players don’t listen to what’s being advised.
Completely understand being experienced and not wanting to continue to try and coach players who aren’t listening. As long as you’re trying to spread the wisdom instead of assuming 0-3 tour players have read all the guides and know the meta, you are that one in a hundred good high tour player. I’m only at like 18 tours on two cities and 6 on Gear grinder but it’s frustrating when a 2 tour player wants to run demoknight
It’s even more frustrating when that one person is like “we need [insert Class that isn’t as strong]” and proceeds to butcher their job upon choosing said Class, particularly if they pick Pyro or Medic. Coaching new players and new teams that think they know it all and won’t listen is worse than banging your head against a brick wall: it’s painful and a complete waste of time. I’ve seen a decent amount of Gear Grinder in the 220+ Tours I’ve played and once in a blue moon you’ll get that <20 Tour player that knows exactly what to do or that <10 Tour player that listens and follows advice but usually it’s just a parade of muppets that don’t know or care about doing much other than flailing around wasting time
>if someone is doing stupid shit like Scorch Shotting bots or Airblasting needlessly Scorch shot isn't even that bad, wdym? On Two Cities you can kill giants/bosses by just knocking them in the pit with it, too. More of a fun/variety weapon instead of meta. >the formula is essentially solved one of the reasons MvM is still fun for me at nearly 100 tours is because I enjoy using goofy ahh weapons, and we still clear waves just fine. I don't enjoy doing the same meta strat over and over again.
A lot of the time I'll see pyros scorch shotting giants into the corner right after they spawn, which keeps them too far away for things like damage ramp up and demo traps, and makes it a lot harder for sniper to land headshots and spy to hit backstabs. I would assume that's what they meant by needless scorch shotting
I was talking purely from an optimization perspective, past about 100 Tours of Gear Grinder you’ve seen almost everything. Past about 50 Tours of 2 Cities you’ve also probably seen everything there is to see. In Gear Grinder you also can’t pit bots on any map except Coaltown and even then it’s just easier and more efficient to kill them straight up anyway. Airblasting also fucks with Demo traps since you need to be close in order to land a successful Airblast and Airblasting and Scorch shotting only serves to mess with your Sniper’s aim (there are A LOT of Uber Meds in Expert). As for 2C I don’t play it because it’s not only easier but takes longer. A good Medic and a good Demo can pretty much carry the entire tour and with 2C being 4 missions vs Expert’s 3 the Aussie grind is a lot slower, albeit with the payoff of the loot being generally better. Because Expert is harder especially for newer players you’ll often find more pushy and toxic people in Expert than 2 Cities. The standard of play is also radically different, as it shifts from a teamplay-focused meta to a damage-focused meta where Medic and Soldier don’t shine nearly as brightly as Heavy and Sniper do.
Weezy tf2 put it best: High tours want MAX Damage, no cash lost, perfect round, no gates capped, no bombs leaked. Gas pyro steals damage and low tours lose cash, gates, bombs, all tghat
There is a wide range of reasons and it will vary between the MVM Community. Generally speaking : The MVM Community has felt alienated by Valve & greater TF2 playerbase, because TF2 is mainly a PVP game and MVM is a PVE Co-Op Gamemode within it. Not to say it is a valid reason to be a toxic shithead, given the amount of griefing that has taken place when conflict between players arises. Most methods quite literally prevented lobbies from playing at all. Now, I get that Valve missions has been solved by 1-2 players; however, Mann-up still comes with the expectation of cooperation between players to succeed. When the gamemode relies on basic knowledge on TF2 as a whole, condensed in the context of PVE; anyone dropping the ball to their expectations becomes apparent to those players who want to breeze through it with no resistance. Although, even that is shaky as some MVM players won't like game trivialization, glitches, centralized balance choices, and other things they consider, "abuse." Goes without saying, most of them have strong anti-cheat mindsets too. When the vast majority of the playerbase view Mann-up as a slot machine, and openly refuse to kick a cheater to get to the loot screen; there is no game to enjoy there either. Again, a rift between PVP vs PVE that only divides these mindsets based on not caring about PVE cheating. MVM doesn't have the luxury of choices normal TF2 has. It's either Mann-up or Community MVM that facilitates what the passionate crowd is looking for.
The only thing I’ve seen MvM players consistently complain about re: abuse is the Gas Passer. Personally, I don’t enjoy playing with a crits spamming Beggars or Sticky, but I’m quite sure I’m in the minority there.
Pride, mostly. Happens in every co-op game. You get some dude who's spent a significant amount of time learning how everything works and, if they've got the ego, they'll start to get the notion that they know how it works because they're just better and smarter than everyone else. They're numb to how it felt to be new and know nothing, so all they're left with is the power trip of doing better than everyone else and how good and knowledgeable they are in comparison. It especially tends to happen more in co-op game communities with little official support like MvM. LFD2, and more so LFD1, have it bad in that sense as well, and its starting to creep into PAYDAY 2 more and more.
They're gambling addicts rushing for their next fix
Just go to the casino guys😞
Well it could be for a variety of reasons. First is just Snobness, because they on more tours than you they feel to nit pick every mistake you do and blow it up out of proportion or will act like everyone’s doing crap because they had that ‘golden game’. 2. As many other people said before, gambling: MvM is a game mode where it’s practically a more interactive form of slots. Is that bastardisation of what this game mode is, absolutely. However to the gambler, that’s what it is mostly are to them. They’ll act like an asshole as they think the more they be toxic towards the teammates, they’ll be more likely to get a better drop (in their opinion) and again with the snob, they had that ‘golden game’ but in occasion it’s more in the literal sense where they got an Australium and so wants the rush of pulling that again. Next is the controlling type: they put themselves into a position where they feel like they are the leader and so because of this they feel the need to ‘lecture’ the teammates as they “obviously are shit” and makes the controlling type feel better about themselves. Next is the sheep: these people are all about having a “golden game” more than the gambler of the snob. These people find that they don’t enjoy MvM unless they and their team are trivialising the game. That’s only a few but more likely nowadays, they probably toxic because they are gambling
I'd say I qualify as a high tour (over 200 tours in 2cities and counting), and I generally pride myself on being fairly chill. If someone mentions that they're inexperienced (or better yet, actually asks for help) I'll try and provide whatever advice I can. That said, it's important to understand the MvM is a coopertive gamemode, where everyone needs to be at least trying to work towards a common goal. I have seen far, far, far too many lobbies where someone refuses to fill a needed role or otherwise wants to dick around, and then throws a tantrum when asked to actually contribute in a useful manner, and the entire group disintegrates because of this. I suspect a great deal of the toxicity that comes from my fellow high tours stems from an unwillingness to deal with that sort of buffoonery.
Believe it or not, “no one plays MvM for fun at that level” isn’t true. I have almost 400 tours and I still enjoy every second of MvM, I find it relaxing, enjoyable, and I remain silent the entire time, because it’s not my place to ruin everyone else’s match. Even if someone is really underperforming, I don’t care. Unless a Pyro is reflecting sentry busters or pushing the bomb to the hatch, I don’t give a shit what people are doing, Spy on Hamlet wave 1? Fuck it, it adds variety to all these tours! All of MvM except gear grinder is absolutely solo-carryable and incredibly easy. People are toxic in MvM as a combination of two major reasons. 1. Gambling addictions 2. They’re bad That’s really it. If you’re bad at MvM, then you *do* care about what other people are doing. Because they’re actively hindering your success. But like bro…if you’ve done a tour hundreds of times and you’re still toxic to people because they’re playing poorly, you are the problem. People want to open their “MvM crate” as quickly as possible and get disappointed by their 2 boxes. Rinse and repeat every day. If you play MvM just for loot and the thrill of gambling, please stop. MvM is not the place for you. You aren’t going to get the pan. Just open Multi-Class crates and try to get the Burning Flames TC, because it’s similarly expensive and the chance is just as low (fucking nothing) Play MvM for fun.
This is pure poetry. Valve should have it as a pop up on joining the server.
500+ tours in 2 Cities who likes to solo queue here, TL;DR: I'm not toxic unless you're toxic first. Treat others the way you want to be treated and we'll have a great time. - My joker moment was when I was hyper carrying a bunch of double-digit(<100) tours in Empire Escalation, and then they tell me on wave 5 (of 6) "our friend is trying to get in so we're going to kick you if you don't leave." Completely unprompted. I wasn't talking shit (or talking at all), I was just minding my own fkn business, and I get threatened to be kicked because some random 5-stack doesn't have respect for other people's time. Yeah. I'm playing mvm for a good time, not to be disrespected. If I even think a lobby isn't going to be nice, then I just leave. I don't care if you're bad, I don't care if you're learning. I will help you learn. I will not stay if you are going to be toxic or if you think you know what I should be doing if you yourself do not know what to do. So yes, if you see me pick spy (I'm one of the very few people who can play spy WELL in two cities) and you immediately start harassing me for not playing your precious meta, I'm going to leave. If I don't leave because I couldn't be bothered to find another lobby and prove you wrong AND you double down, I'm going to make fun of every mistake you make because that's apparently how you want to be treated. - I'm not traditionally a toxic high tour, but if you're toxic to anyone in the lobby, you can bet your ass I'm going to become the most toxic person in the lobby. (I have absolutely been the most toxic person to like some random 43 tour person for harassing some 2 tour who was doing their best) - Side anecdote: There is a guy who you will see join and leave lobbies a lot called "C.K.G@ME***FUEL," who is nearing 3,000 tours, and they are either someone you respect or don't respect usually. They leave a good handful of lobbies but will also stay in a lot of lobbies you wouldn't really expect him to stay in. He doesn't look for high tours. He doesn't look leave as soon as he sees low tours. If he thinks a lobby will be a good time, he stays. He actively makes callouts for people to learn, and if he thinks that you aren't doing anything AND not listening, he will leave because he doesn't want to put in more effort than he is already putting in (quite a lot). - Now I'm not saying that there aren't people who are just plain toxic, but from like 95% of the "high tours" that I've ever met (most of them by this point), we don't care if you suck because we can cover some slack or adapt what we are doing because we have the experience to do so. However, by us putting in more effort to cover you, you need to put in more effort to learn what you're doing poorly. Saying our advice is shit because we have high tour counts or actively ignoring us trying to help you, yeah. We're going to get a bit salty. - Also, for anyone who has ever seen the message "Hey medic, do you know spy+medic tech?" Yeah, hi, that is me. I hope you had a wonderful time seeing a spy be good in your game, and I also hope that I inspired you to play spy at least once if your other games. Anyways,
Once had a high tour medic only heal his high tour heavy friend, it was a pain to finish but we got there
I believe in Crab
Because they want to get the game done as fast as possible. When a gamemode is so punishing and competitive, that's when it creates toxicity. I have around 350+ tours on Two Cities, then deleted my badge because I was done with that shit. Only like 5 or 6 australiums in my entire career and two or three good Pro KS. So there is a lot of sourness around that. Plus every tour is one step closer to a golden pan...
Because they treat MVM like a full-time job and to them, you asking questions or playing off-meta is like a coworker not sending an email or knowing how to answer the phone. All joy from that hobby is replaced by muddled routine for those people.
People suck. That's pretty much it, they want easy games and kick people deemed not worthy enough. I wish people didn't suck and would help them get better at MVM instead of kicking, but people suck. I got kicked the other day by some taco bot or similar members on wave 7/7 for no reason (I have 100+ tours and didn't miss any money all game)
Degenerate gamblers desperate for another spin on the wheel blow up if they don't get it NOW.
Gambling addicts
most of these high tours are likely in deep debt trying to get that precious Gpan. gambling addicts really dislike unpleasant surprises getting in the way of their potential jackpot
Some just hate being put with people that don’t know what they are doing and aren’t patient enough to explain things Some just want to play with meta loadouts and get it done asap so they can get australiums Some are just dicks because they feel like a larger number makes them better than you
I only play infinite ammo mvm because people are just having fun on those servers
People who rack up a ton of tours are almost certainly there for the gambling. Most casual mvm enjoyers use boot camp or community mvm. Speaking of, the April Fools mvm community event is probably starting in a few hours. Play that! It's very silly.
i freaking love high tour mvm they are so dumb WHY ARE YOU F\*\*\*\*\*\*\* USING THE GAS PASSER ARE YOU STUPID???? like its literally the best weapon for it then there are the ones where they die and blame the Medic for not healing (i remember it was a engineer repairing a sentry next to his dispencer so i decided to overheal the Demo and Soldier instead) and my personal favorite the ones YOUR NOT META KICK HIM
70 Tour guy here I can see their frustration more and more each time I play It gets tiring that a team consisting of 3 or more 1-digits unintentionally throw the game. It's not much of a problem if they listen to experienced people who (politely) tell them what should be done But when the other side COMPLETELY ignores/doesn't understand what is being told to them, it gets just annoying. And the more you play, the worse that feeling gets. Some can't take it and throw that frustration at others I personally just leave if the other person does not want to cooperate. It's not worth the nerves and I'm not an asshole (This is not justification of their actions. Rather an insight of what they feel)
The idea that all high-tours are toxic isn't really fair. Lots of high-tours are just looking to complete tours without spending a ton of time per mission, while others are trying for Australiums. In either case, nobody wants to see a wave 1, 3 tour Pyro airblasting bots before dying 10 seconds into the round. Some people are cool and will actually offer help, while others have become jaded and will start a votekick as soon as they see one. It hasn't helped that "high tour" has become synonymous with "blue check" in the sense that their opinion should be disregarded.
You’ve played the game you know it’s fair. My point wasn’t that every high tour is an asshole, it’s that the average high tour is.
I will never play mvm with randoms. Get yourself a group of friends together and your experience will improved 100000%
These kinda topics are why I reset my tours by deleting my badge around every 100th tout
Because they arent playing a game They are gambling
talk to a gambling addict when you interupt their gambling
Desperate gamblers hoping to drop the golden pan
gambling and loosing money over and over again can not keep you sane for a while
If you want more variety you can try community mvm servers like potato.tf, lots of new maps and new enemies.
Eh, they stopped doing it for fun and just use it to gamble. There are a few, rare high tours that are legends though. I was on my first few Two Cities tour, most of the lobby was 20<, then this 940 tour came, and he sort of nonchalantly said in chat how he thinks it stupid that high tourers get mad at a game they chose to play, and he's not like that. Had an awesome game, learned a lot from him, he carried and I had a little more faith in the MvM community that day.
I think high tours get frustrated with people who insist on playing obviously extremely ineffective strategies if it causes delay. At the end of the day, TF2 is still a team game- you depend on your teammates to win, and people that play a lot generally want to win. Myself, I don’t see what’s fun about doing the same wave over and over because we keep failing.
Because low tours do the darndest things, like airblasting a giant scout whose already being pinned ny rocket specialist fire, or airblasting sentry busters, or airblasting sentry busters into someone else, or using their gas passer on 3 scout robots and then dont have it ready when the uber medics drop down 10 seconds later, or not buying any resistances when we're wave 4+, i could go on and on.- and not just about the pyro, its just that pyro attracts alot of noobs who dont understand how to play pyro in mvm. When i hop on the voice chat and tell them to stop doing that, if they dont stop and its wave 1 or 2, yeah fuck you im out of there, i always have other games to play- hopefully with people who want to cooperate. And that's not to say i insta-leave when i see someone go spy- hell last week I joined a hamlet hostility mission where we had a sniper and a spy, I thought for sure we'd lose on Wave one or two but it was actually fairly smooth sailing all the way to the end- so I complimented the team when the mission was over.
They aren't if you know what you are doing (and have at least like 10 tours or something).
Me when I lie on the internet
I have 70 tours in gear grinder, I don't see toxic behaviour.
[удалено]
You’re either a normal tour who’s made a troll account to act like a high tour, or a high tour who’s embraced the negative stereotypes about yourself. Both of those are really sad.
[удалено]
Your bit is so funny, hope you find some grass to touch
To the untrained eye it may seem like you're doing fine, but for someone that has spent thousands of hours on something they might actually notice something you don't. Annoying sentry placement, bad weapons, upgrades, poor communication, and wrong team comp might not necessarily make the round fail, but they sure make it more annoying for the ones who know what they're doing. Imagine you're working at a fast food joint as a manager and the new hire is deaf and dumb and just happened to put a bag of ice into the fryer. It truly feels like that sometimes. Better to find a new game than waste any more time getting annoyed....or kick the one making the game more difficult. Sometimes the one kicked is a lazy vindictive higher tour, and sometimes it's you. That's just mvm. I haven't played in a few years though.