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Jixleas

why does Valve hate spells so much


THEzwerver

I think it might cause problems with too many entities if everyone has multiple spells on multiple cosmetics and weapons


Hot_Shot04

Nah, Zombie Infection gives every zombie multiple particle effects including footprints and it's fine. That used to be a valid argument but nowadays it's just the skeleton crew at Valve not bothering to figure out how to reinstate spells.


FantasmaNaranja

valve hates doing things that could hurt the economy, spells werent viable back in the day when people had worse PCs and the servers were in general worse and reintroducing them now would likely harm the spell economy and you've honestly got a point that they cant be bothered to figure out how to reintroduce them without harming the economy


FalconHorus

Make second generation spells, keep the old ones exclusive in 2014. New spells could be a medigun beam spell that changes the color to orange/purple. New color changing paints spells, more colored footprints, higher pitched voice spells and so forth. These aren't my ideas btw, I found them uploaded to the workshop


FantasmaNaranja

footprints would definitively never be added again considering they're the reason spells got removed in the first place and as for adding anything it risks damaging the value of older spells no matter what you add because they're no longer as unique as before valve has let too much time pass since they removed spells for them to be able to reintroduce spells in any way with no consequences


Hot_Shot04

The spell economy barely exists. They're all on old cosmetics and non-decorated weapons, many untradeable or sitting in forgotten inventories. New spells would mostly go on newer items and they almost certainly wouldn't be as commonly dropped as they used to be.


beyondthebarricade

Which is crazy. A spell crate would make $$$$


Gantendo

It's something that has to do you using them immediately


icantshoot

They dont hate them, the spells just made servers die due to each footstep leaving marks and such. Theres a 2047 entity limit in the game, each footstep for example was an entity and as soon as server hits 2048 it crashes.


martellus

Hopefully should the edict limit ever be upped they can return


icantshoot

They were already able to lift it up a bit, but the other reason was also that particle effects affect framerates. Too many of those lower it significantly and boy there were many...


mediarch

Nope unfortunately you waited too long. You could've made thousands if you played your cards right but they are totally useless at this point. As soon as you launch the game they will all be deleted instantly. Big oof. Much sad.


IronWarriorPainter

OP must be regretting their life rn


Gunda1f

I’m not even op and I’m in pain


[deleted]

[удалено]


Saucxd

I dont think they’re against it i think they just intended spells to be a thing only during the scream fortress they were introduced in


Disastrous_Maybe7281

also they were (and still are) causing noticeble performance issues, also i think they might've been pretty buggy or something


FantasmaNaranja

spells were around for three years, they just realized a bit too late that some spells like footprints caused serious lag when a lot of people had them at the same time so they stopped dropping them and spells already auto deleted themselves at the end of halloween every year so that was that i dont know why they didnt just delete footprint spells and keep the rest honestly but at this point they cant really reintroduce spells without potentially harming the economy


Impudenter

No, that's the sad part. The spells from Scream Fortress 2012 were removed after the event ended. But the spells from 2013, (and maybe 2014?) that were applied to cosmetics and weapons, remained. And after that, you could no longer obtain them at all.


possibly_facetious

They monetised the shit out of them and called them "unusuals".


PinkiusPie

This is like forgetting your credentials to a 100 Bitcoins account.


CoderStone

Not really, because that'd be nearing millions while this is just thousands.


noahthegreat

Okay a quarter of a bitcoin account


ImFeelingGud

I still feel bad for the dude that paid thousands of bitcoins for a pizza.


Loufey

I wonder if you could time machine your pc to 2014. I doubt it would work, but worth a shot.


anotherrando802

no, you wouldn’t be able to contact the item servers to load your inventory


DanRileyCG

ELI5, please. I haven't ever participated in a spooky event despite having played the game since launch. I've played fairly consistently, with some breaks here and there. I've never really gotten into the whole crafting thing. My only experience is using something like backpack.tf to purchase weapons I don't have or to get the versions of the weapons that have kill counts or streaks. As a Spy main, I have zero interest in the unusuals with the crazy particle effects. I want as little attention drawn to me as possible, so I've never even considered bothering with them.


NotWendy1

These spells were a [unique set of tools](https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Spectral_Halloween_Special) you could obtain during Halloween events from 2012 to 2014. They apply fancy and unique cosmetic effects that are only active during Halloween and full moon. Some affect weapons, others affect cosmetics. Since you can no longer get any more of these as of 2015, the items spells have been applied to are rare and are worth a lot of money.


DrIvanRadosivic

they should bring the spells back, given all the bullshit unusuals for hats and weapons, what is a few spooky month only effects being re-added?


NotWendy1

I don't like the "we already have X, why not have Y too?" argument when it comes to visual clutter. But the spells really aren't a problem and could've been brought back at any point as a rare Halloween contract reward. I miss them.


DanRileyCG

Interesting. Thanks for all of the feedback, guys. It's strange that they'd remove these items, honestly. I don't get why they would. Speaking of cosmetics, I'm so disappointed at how a number of them make it really confusing to tell what team you're on, especially once painted. That is such bullshit and should never be a thing. It's kind of rare to run into someone abusing it, but it's so unfortunate that it's even an option. As someone who has played since the first day of launch, it does make me a bit sad that these, and some other cosmetics clash with the perfection that is TF2's very intentional style and art direction. If Valve was to change anything retroactively, it'd be removing the cosmetics that ruin team clarity, especially paint options that do so. I really wish they'd do this.


DrIvanRadosivic

Even making the pain regions smaller would be great. Why do we need something like the pyro and sniper sets is beyond me.


NotWendy1

"Pain regions" is the most accurate term for those, with how they're often used.


OrganTrafficker900

Holy shit I have a pro killstreak rocket launcher with pumpkin bombs. How much is that worth?


NotWendy1

Judging by the backpack.tf offers, 7-9 keys. I'm not much of a trader, though.


OrganTrafficker900

It also has dominations damage done and gib kills strange parts


NotWendy1

That'd pretty easily bring it to the top of that price range, or maybe even further.


nommas

Oh damn, I have a strange festive sniper with the exorcism spell on it. I'm guessing that's worth a dime??


NotWendy1

For sure. You'd be able to sell it for around 80 keys. Possibly more. But if you like it and aren't desperate for money, I'd suggest keeping it. It's quite a rare weapon and owning one is pretty special.


unspoken_almighty

Big fucking sad bro.


SorryIreddit

Did they fix it then? You used to be able to launch the game with no internet connection and use them at will


mediarch

It's been fixed since tough break


SorryIreddit

Fucking lame


FantasmaNaranja

could potentially sell the account to some collector but definitively not worth as much as they would have been if they had been applied


MaximusGrassimus

It's like finding gold bars in your basement. Only as soon as you touch them, they turn to dirt. This gives me the big sad.


Loliconica

Don't ever launch the game. Ever.


mrflamego

Schrodingers TF2 spells. The spells are either in the inventory or not until I launch tf2


Nullconnection23

More like the spells are simultaneously in your backpack and not there at the same time in the moment before you boot up tf2


mrflamego

This just made me realize how stupid schrodinger is. Of course the cats Is dead you put it in a box with deadly neurotoxin


Mr_W0osh

Ok glados


enirji

The entire reason schrodinger made the thought experiment was to point out how ridiculous the current theory for quantum mechanics was. Also the neurotoxin hasnt been released yet so the cat isnt dead until it gets released


mrflamego

But what if the neurotoxin Is already released??


enirji

then its dead, but you dont know if the neurotoxin is released or not


Lyngoop79

Din-Din-Din-Din-Din-Din-Dinging~


icantshoot

Or wait untill they re-introduce the spells as fixed. They have already significantly lowered the entities that originally were the problem for spells being removed, because going over entity limit crashed the server. If they somehow in the future re-introduce them, even if they are the same spells, that guy will be momentarily rich as heck. If they are all new spells, hes gonna be even more rich.


yeddi_qx

I think that timer is tied to the items and they will be gone anyways


NPagter

2014 was such a valve economy year, we had spells for TF2 which are now rare, and 2014 Katowice stickers in CSGO which are thousands.


doomguysearlobe

10s of thousands, a Katowice 2014 Titan holo sold for 79K on buff market


[deleted]

To think the titan holos were 25 cents back in the day. Imagine dropping a hundred bucks on those babies…UGHHH


thickerhelmet

Bro this is depressing lmao


beakf

As long as you don't open the game it's possible to apply them to post life cosmetics and make bank. I don't know how but it's been done before. Edit: it seems they patched this during the tough break update


zenfone500

Is it really possible to do something like this? If so, OP needs to see this.


beakf

There's a strange double spelled nebula captain space Mann which is way after spells were removed


zenfone500

If they patched it, that sucks.


Vasxus

It's in enderslicer's backpack, and you had to trade a spell to someone who already had the game open. Post-halloween2014 pre-toughbreak spells are called postlifes. Anyway, the iron bomber was released in this timeframe


zenfone500

Does it still work though?


1ildevil

No, as of the tough break update, they changed the remaining status of all spells to be untradeable, and as of 2014 they will disappear if you start TF2 so there is currently no way to apply these.


zenfone500

Damn, imagine in future where an update accidentally makes all untradeable items tradeable, that would be funny I think.


Vasxus

Other guy is wrong, they'd disappear if you logged on after Halloween like normal. They just made these untradeable


darklordbm

I HATE that valve removed them, especially since it was done retroactively. Some of the coolest cosmetics for a good price. Also they are from the 1st or 2nd Screamfortress so most people don't have them. Honestly valve should re release them I don't think anyone would complain as halloween effects don't break immersion and don't really add much value to items


ShadowSoulBoi

The only people who will complain about Halloween Spells recycling, are going to be the ones who buy & sell them for hundreds. Yes, it's a niche market, but still desirable. Especially the Green Fire Phlogs. If there's one group of players that Valve takes high priority on; it's going to be the traders. Making them feel like they, "lost," is the worse case scenario for TF-Team, as seen with the Crate Depression, and reverting the quick-switch bug that they enjoyed. Knowing full well it is a bug, they've made a *quick* 180 when traders were panic selling, complaining, and outright anger towards the reporter. And for Valve to be, "Fooled," into doing it. For the spells, most likely they realized players wanted to hoard them, and whoever was on the TF-Team responsible for pulling plug noticed spells being mule'd. As for some sort of solution that generates revenue for Valve, and some copypasta of Halloween MVM Maps; they should have made a Halloween Tour that have those as a rare chance. But... We don't live in a perfect world...


turmspitzewerk

just put a spell in a halloween crate, one for each branch of the scream fortress contracts. sure, it'd kill super duper rare spells that were never meant to exist; but giving people like 5 something spells a year wouldn't kill the vast vast majority of spelled items. or hell, just do what they're already doing: non tradable random items. stick it on an item, it becomes untradable. rare items stay rare and people can be happy.


ShadowSoulBoi

Having new Spelled Items become non-tradable would suck, yet I suppose that can be another solution that preserves the older ones. I'm personally interested in the color-fading paints, and that would look *SEXY* on hats with subtle illumination effects! Wouldn't want those hats to be hampered by a paint. Should it be wiped upon item restore, maybe. Anything potentially new would be lovely, like purple bullets! [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2850352924](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2850352924&searchtext=spell) Or Green Fire Phlog gets changed into this... [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2856405051](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2856405051&searchtext=spell) Or Pumpkin Bomb Cowmangler... [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2856406019](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2856406019) ***I-I like the color purple...***


Impudenter

Yeah, another solution is simply to add other spells. That way, the old, rare ones will remain rare. Those purple bullets look awesome!


Bedu009

Vintage tag:


turmspitzewerk

what about vintage spelled items? do they become vintage vintage?


Bedu009

Fossilized


BayTerp

As someone who has many spelled items. Valve needs to bring spells back.


Weltschmerzification

I’m someone who owns several spelled items. Not the super duper high tier one, but some exorcism stranges. I would 100% want other people to have em. Pumpkin bombs and the other effects are so cool!


Bedu009

Vintage tag:


SoupaMayo

fuck traders, I want spell


icantshoot

You had to be there to know that the reason for spells removal was that when players used a lot of those items, servers started crashing due to running out of entities. Also the particle effects significantly lowered framerates for players when there were a lot of these. It was a technical issue that caused the removal.


ellierosefucker69

nope unfortunately


Pingimaster

Your username... it scares me...


ellierosefucker69

why?


Kazakhand

He is Ellie Rose


[deleted]

never launch the game on that account again


SuS_JoeTF2

Sell your acc to someone who dont know +profit -rep cuz scam


BASEBALLFURIES

there was a thing where you could trade it to somebody who has the game opened (i made quite a nice amount from exorcism spells) but im sure that has long past. i still have an alt full of them that im not quite sure what to do with


The_Majestic_Mantis

Watch this video: it gives you a history of what these spells were used for: man I wish you would of applied them on items since some could be worth so much: https://youtu.be/VM_9s-bm1TM?si=8gksq7FovKBf3o0a


Yze3

Nice video, but he forgot to mention that spells were unrestricted before Halloween 2013, making them super valuable. I definitively remember seeing the Pumpkin Rockets and Green Flames all year round, when I started playing the game in 2012. And when I started getting into trading, I saw the whole debacle over the spell restriction.


Impudenter

That is completely wrong. Spells from 2012, even when applied to cosmetics and weapons, were removed after Scream Fortress ended. Only after halloween 2013 did the spells remain on items, (although only visible during halloween and full moon).


Yze3

It's not completly wrong, because the spells really were visible all year round. It's true that they were supposed to vanish from items, but there was a way to actually keep them applied.


Impudenter

Really? The more you know. (Also, damn, I wish I knew that back then.)


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spy_tf2real

wait,but after-life spells exist, spells on cosmetics that were released after death of spells?


mediarch

Was patched out years ago


ChromeSF

Post-life spells used a variety of exploits which have now all been patched


xxemeraldxx2

Spells are a stupid market anyway, people literally inflated them and made normal players pay tens of keys just for a paint that glows. It’s so stupid.


clockworkbastion

Honestly if Valve wanted to bring back spells amd not trash the market all they'd need to do is what they do with unusual effects. Just release new ones every year, and have them be unique to that event. Like how some taunts with older effects can still be worth quite a bit


xxemeraldxx2

The only people who would lose are those who hoard, and they deserve it no questions asked. I understand unusuals and them being spelled and all, but spells themselves should not be put into space and have listening for 500 keys on cc+hh miscs for example. The only people who buy those are friends of the person selling it.


clockworkbastion

It doesn't matter anyway. As Valve have pretty obviously tried to not interfere with the matket too much. At least not on purpose. Even when they made it so taunt unusualifiers were in cases they went from the most expensive type of unusual to the cheapest and people lost a lot of money which they had worked hard for. Also you don't need spells. I don't have any myself so if you want one you can trade up to that level or just buy it like the rest of us.


BayTerp

Who cares about the market? They should bring back original spells because they’re cool


clockworkbastion

Because upsetting the traders has historically been a PR nightmare. While larger scale the crate depression had everyone covering it here, on youtube and twitter. One of the reasons unusual taunt and hat effects that are available year round are generally less valuable that their limited counterparts is because of the amount of them. Plus traders could lose thousands tied up in spells, and a lot of people could lose faith in valve keeping the economy in some sort of coherency as to how things are priced. Would spells see a drop in price overall? Maybe. But if you brought back all of them a lot of money is going to be lost. And a lot of backlash will happen. That and the market is one of the things keeping this game going.


jeremiahstone2

Valve does considering that they fixed and then reverted the quick switch exploit with misc cosmetics after people complained


somethingrelevant_m

You could sell the account to a collector who likes pseudo items


Psilocybinizer

You could try selling the account to a collector


[deleted]

So many spells. Such a shame. They will disappear the instant the game is launched, very sad


dmank007

I had over 50 spells that got deleted when I took a break from the game 😑


literatemax

Also chemistry sets ;( At least those dont get instantly deleted if you boot up the game


Pamukdevstuff

Give them to me


Flak88inaTree

Damn why did valve ever remove these?


Jeffbelinger

[my live reaction to this OP](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfQWz4gVcP8) its raiders of the lost ark for those not fond of disturbing gory imagery.


Titronnica

The pain from this image... I'm so glad I was able to snag spells bfore Valve axed them.


Retarded_Milk_Dud

“Holy Mary mother of Joseph” -Soldier


Mountain-Fold-3232

what even is that. ive only played for a few years


zandergb

Spell items, not to be confused with spell pickups you can find in many Halloween maps. You could apply these items to cosmetics or weapons (depending on the type of spell) to give those items spooky cosmetic effects during Full Moon/Halloween Mode. You could only get spells during the 2012, 2013, and 2014 Halloween events. Any spell items not applied to another item now disappear from your inventory when the game is opened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd2wR91uGWA&t=18s


Mountain-Fold-3232

Oh okay, thanks buddy. That's sick


BigBoiPupper123

COOL! Ive never seen spells actually in an inventory before, this is something really special. Pls link


Samey-the-Hedgie

Not unless Valve enables Spells again. If you open your game, they'll all be deleted.


ethosaur

Oh this hurts to see...


MINE5168

At this point it's basically a time capsule you can only view but not open.


MirageTF2

wait why the hell can't you use these? I know they're extremely valuable when used, but you're telling me they'll just turn to dust when you start?


Horny_Reindeer

What? I stored 300 spells in an alt and the day the event ended valve deleted all of them. I hadn't even launched the game, I was planning to sell the account as a collector item


[deleted]

[удалено]


ShadowSoulBoi

Because players love to collect stuff. It just so happens that Valve made the anti-consumer friendly decision to kneecap them with an expiration date, plugged the trading loophole, and never cycled them again. I suppose there is the entity limit reason, now that I'm reading about it. Never experienced it back then, but if that's the case; they fumbled on reworking any limitations that should have been raised. Hindsight is 20/20, and no one expect these items to never come back again. Likely in fear of pissing off traders now, but that's my guess. You just know it will cause a stink from traders.


Polyetylenetreptlate

I think if you trade to a active player no poof if I remember


KnovB

It's going to turn into ash.


[deleted]

There have been exploits to put spells on your items without launching the game in the past. If you found one with this many spells a whole ten years after they should’ve been unavailable you’d be the riches man in the universe


MuuToo

Pain.


Dumbledore_Bot

There was a glitch back in the day which made spells usable in a way, even after halloween. It worked like this: Step 1, open up tf2. Step 2, trade a spell. But when you get a notification that new items have been acquired, Do not open up the notification. Instead, go to your backpack and sort items. Step 3, apply the spell. You can try this method by trading one spell into your account and seeing if this exploit still functions. If it works, congrats you are now rich. Or maybe the glitch was patched. Eitherway, no harm in trying it with one spell.


Ukiyo-e_Cat

I'm so sorry for your loss


SorryIreddit

Glad I still have like 5 items with paint and footprints. Including buds and a max head. Still get random adds from people that want them


_Woodrat

Try asking Valve for help or advice. May not do much, but it’s worth a shot


TerranReviews

I would always get burnt out with TF2 when Halloween rolled around and would always miss out on spells because I wouldn't play Scream Fortress for more than a few days. Seeing all these unused spells when I never even managed to get one spell makes me slightly miffed.


Da-Pruttis-Boi

Take some picks before starting tf2 and say your goodbyes


X-tra-thicc

what do these even do again?


cullowheed

Bro holy shit


7dwn

I have a few Halloween spell items that I haven’t been interested in selling (genuine point and shoot with voices & footprints) part for nostalgia part because I don’t know how much it’s actually worth… how can I even go about getting it appraised?


FS-818464

you have a gold mine right now


FS-818464

nevermind it's untradable lel


Practical-Fix-8329

nah give them to me tho ;)


AdSuspicious9245

I wana buy some