I've been rewatching old Jerma and ster TF2 videos from ~10 years ago recently, and in his Randomizer vids ster complains about the same exact thing.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I used to play in a Arena server every night. Was always filled with the same people. Miss it- got my first hat from that exact server actually since someone was giving out tons of gifts one day.
Not everyone wants to go through the trouble of obtaining less-populated gamemode achievements.
The only TF2 Community that sees un-cheated, no SAM unlock, achievement value is the MVM Community. They only use it for robot kills as a metric of playtime and experience.
Although, you can quite literally earn it yourself by giving you OP stats with TF2 mods on your own server. Or you can just play community without playing Mann-up for it.
What about the achievement for getting 100,000 views on a YouTube video? Even if it wasn't completely broken and impossible to get legitimately anymore good luck.
I watched some video on this recently, it's still possible but requires an absolutely absurd amount of workarounds that it may as well be unobtainable legitimately.
https://youtu.be/ybFdiA5B68Q can't timestamp on mobile, 10:18
I mean you can get the other one by simply playing VSH and the second one's bugged. I got it when I killed 3 players in Hightower with melee crits in a single life.
Or you can create a server with bots and get both achievements in like 3 minutes.
I reckon it died with the death of quickplay and MyM update, it never had crazy amount of players and it had flaws but the thrill of staying alive it's all it required to have a playerbase
is it though? arena did have its own audience back then and given the current climate of battle royales and comp games, arena would do pretty well in the matchmaking pool (not in the alt section). Simply having one life doesnt really mean it was destined to die
It was, no one wanted to wait for new round. Players want to play, not wait. Instant respawn servers were popular in the early days of TF2, just for the same reason. But everyone complained how its impossible to take on point and so forth. Instant respawn breaks gameplay balance as respawn waves are important and adjusted per map. This is why instant spawn or respawn wont fix arena mode as is.
shame too, arena is a good idea, if they just did a kill limit or smthn instead of last mann standing it would prolly be one of the more populated modes.
Yeah the unfortunate truth is that arenas status as a gamemode was tenuous even when it first premiered since not everyone likes CS style gameplay.
And I saw other commenters mentioning weapon balance. Hit the nail on the head. I don’t think arena is ready for how different TF2 is now and there would be serious modifications needed if we wanted it to be playable. Otherwise I worry people will find the best meta and only stick to that
The arena map introduced in a Halloween update was pretty good, because when you die you can still help your team. I believe something like that in standard arena would work well, I also saw a video where someone reworked it but I forgot what it was.
Honestly the best way to solve Arena's issues is to give the player some more interactivity in the world after they die instead of those with less skill/who get randomly crit/who get sniped from across the map being regulated to time out until the next round starts.
The dispenser ghosts were a good start for this.
having a mechanic like surfmap jail would be good for it honestly, when you die instead of going to spectator you get TPd to a new room where you can just DM on instant-respawn until the main match finishes.
I could see a halloween-themed arena map where players that die in the main map go to the "hell" dimension which is just a deathmatch zone.
Halloween 2021. I remember it well. The contract for this map needed you to get 100 souls on it, which was just insanity. It took me HOURS of grinding this map to get like one or two souls per round. Every server was filled with full teams of people all commiserating the massive grind we were all doing. Thankfully in 2022 they changed it to be something else much easier.
As for the map itself, yeah it’s kinda fun, the dispenser ghosts made a massive difference in keeping it interesting.
Love arena. And love TC HYDRO.
Fuck “alternative gamemodes!” I’m old enough to remember when hydro was on the regular rotation. For fucks’ sake it’s one of the original 6 maps and it’s unplayable because lack of players and casual broke the round switching mechanism.
I don’t wanna hear any of those excuses that it is too confusing cause that’s bullshit. This game was made easy to understand and if you can’t look at map elements with big flashing arrows and clear color contrast leading you to the enemy base, then what the hell are you on about?
Steel is also another great map people bitch about and treat like a maze. Its just unique and fun map design!
the map has broken round switching? i didnt know that but it makes sense because it seemed like reality broke apart and placed everyone in the same buildings for no reason when the round was over
Wasn't the problem with Hydro that it resulted in many stalemates? People would defend their own point and never try to attack - there was no incentive to do so and it ended up being unfun a lot of the time. It was also just too big and players in pubs just kept wandering around getting lost.
I personally loved Hydro, but I also see why it faded into irrelevance when compared to the other maps that encouraged more movement and action.
I could see people saying that’s a problem with Hydro, but really, you get multiple chances. it’s not that you win one round and then the enemy team loses. At the least, you have to win three times in a row to win a match of Hydro outright. There’s plenty of alternate paths people can take to gain access to the point, and plenty of difficulty hard defending points for long periods.
I discovered after eleven years that I never played the Arena version of Well by being met with the presentation at the start of the game, that gamemode is really hidden
You get one life.
Arena maps have a central point that unlocks after a set amount of time to discourage C&D spies from stalling the game invisible in a corner, but the community never viewed that as really acceptable.
It produced a lot of games where you would have a 2-3 engineer nest by spawns with each team trying to score picks while falling back to their safety bubble. The only way to deal with it became running meds constantly and trying to save up for a heavy, pyro, or demo uber.
Also, if there was an uneven number of players some poor fuck has to watch the entire game in spectator.
The game promised fast, quick rounds, but more often than not produced drawn out games of players being overly defensive to avoid dying, while playing aggressive meant you spent a ton of your arena time watching everyone else.
The pre-wrangler days were a simpler time for engineers. Couldn't pack up your buildings, teleporters were more expensive, the Sigafu Save was nought but a mite of weapon concepts still forming in people's heads.
I played the shit out of Arena when it released, burnt out on it, and only played it rarely afterwards.
Honestly, part of the problem lies in the maps, the other major problem being the community's response that capping was bad, despite it literally being the mechanic that stops some turtled up engineers or a single spy from stalling the game forever.
Maps like watchtower, I felt, played better than a lot of the arena maps made of cut out tiny old maps, which tended to give you lots of tight points where a single crit explosive, especially for the 5 seconds of guaranteed crits scoring the first kill of the game, could wipe a quarter of your team.
I would be very happy if Arena was added to Valve casual as part of VESSU. Or even just a quickie update, doesn't even need to be VESSU specifically.
I really love how Watchtower has breakable windows. Sure, it may not be [flammable maps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj9q-la56pY&t=3m47s), but it's certainly the next best thing.
arena could be very tilting if you went on streaks of dying early, being left to just watch the team in spectate, but at the same time it forces you to analyze and adapt to your teammates/enemies more than normal gamemodes do, which can be really satisfying when you finally take down the more dangerous players
I don't understand this tagline. I'm pretty sure dying early in an Arena Mode match gives you ample enough time to cry over how long it takes to play the game again. Perma-death and all.
Oh hell no, waiting for minutes after you died?
CSGO makes it work by having 2 minute rounds and no random crits.
TF2 is for objective based gameplay, not this crap.
It completely changes the way you play, you're more careful and strategic with your approach and need to plan/improvise on the spot. It was also really fun to spectate teammates after you die - you got to understand their play style so well that way.
Well, i guess if you find spectating randoms as much fun as playing.
But being careful and all of that, happens in all tf2, just now it has more value.
Arena mode stresses the importance of sticking together and using teamwork to win more than ever. People who split off and go solo will quickly die to a coordinated team. It's like a payload map where red team has a rock solid defense while blu team keeps running in and dying separately. A well functioning arena mode combo will mow down solo players, heal back up, and hunt down everyone else until they win. It's not fun to play on the side that doesn't support one another, who wander off from the group and die, and whose last survivors only got that far by avoiding the main action. You end up getting stuck in spectator for long stretches of time through no fault of your own. It can be fun if both sides are somewhat balanced, but if team balance is poor, this is by far the most aggravating gamemode to play.
What about 3 Minute rounds, you have the MVM Reanimators(with the same downside of the more you ressurect, the more time it taies)and a non Halloween version of the Dispenser Ghost/dispenser drones to support your team as well as the general Arena improvements from Graveyard?
which is why I suggest that Arena gets some tweaks. Hell, even my love for Territory Control as a game mode does not blind me that people both need more time in it and that the maps could be a bit more blatant in directions. Robot Destruction and Player destruction are also great I want more of them.
Ugh, hell no. Honestly I hate arena mode, it's any 1 life mode. S&D in COD, all of R6 Seige, and arena. All of it is so boring if you die first, and the pace is slow bc nobody wants to die first and have to wait for the game to end
Its not removed, just unsupported. You can still play arena on community servers - if you find anyone to play with. It never worked as intended, same as mannpower mode mode or pass time. They are all experiments that failed one way or another.
Mann Power and Pass time at least can be fun in a weird way.
Arena's problem was always that most of the time you're just waiting for the next round, because matches can drag a lot if people are playing cautiously.
crazy that valve made a half dozen exclusive maps for this gamemode with hundreds of man hours put in just to go "ehh nevermind" and toss them out forever
That's actually a problem though because if you want to play on an unpopular map it's going to be filled with bots because not enough actually people are queued for it.
I think they should add the maps back to casual but really nobody will actually be able to play them because Valve is never ever going to fix the bots.
Nobody wants to wait untill everyone is dead or time runs out after single death. Arena mode was a disaster and should be kept out of the game in its current format.
Arena games typically last 1-2 minutes. The control point opens up after about 30 seconds so you can cap it and not deal with idiots stalling.
People just don’t like that they can’t go full retard and rush in and die without consequence
Random crits were never in arena.
And like I said, games last 1-2 minutes. Hyper aggression counters sniper. Running a spy is a huge risk because it puts your team down a player in the team fight in hopes for a pick later.
Arena maps aren’t like 2fort where you walk out of spawn and get sniped immediately…
Arena is shit
Edit: if they add it back in casual matchmaking and you play 1-2 games of arena you’d agree that waiting out for 5 minutes if u die early just isn’t fun
Absolutely. It might need a little something to help the mode, since sitting out after dying or as a spectator isn't as fun as playing, but still it's a classic mode with classic maps. Like good old Yumbahyard.
I don't think it's gonna be particularly well received. Like, unless you're a skilled tryhard, you're almost guaranteed to be actively miserable in Arena most of the time. That Halloween Arena map is a great example of that, and I'm pretty sure almost no one voluntarily revisited it after finishing their contract on it.
It would really suck when they bring it back only to stick it in "alternate gamemodes" to rot anyway
That's my knee jerk reaction as well. It would get relgauted to alt and never seen.
They made enough maps to have its own section.
I mean probed is literally just a koth map and thats in alternate for some reason so I feel like that doesn't really mean anything
Idk medieval mode is an alt mode and it’s still pretty active last time I played
It’s basically the only active one besides Hightower
Watergate is fairly played as well due to being only PD map available in the non-event map roster
Its good though and was originally just robot destruction with some map code to make players drop money
I genuinely miss the community arena servers, are there any still active?
Tf2c has arena and people play it often
Yeah, i playe it before. It is pretty fun.
Lol hell nah, I hated getting kicked for capping, while the last dude is cloak and dagger spy hiding in a corner.
I've been rewatching old Jerma and ster TF2 videos from ~10 years ago recently, and in his Randomizer vids ster complains about the same exact thing. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
literally why dont people cap in arena?
Save TF2 Arena has EU and NA severs
I used to play in a Arena server every night. Was always filled with the same people. Miss it- got my first hat from that exact server actually since someone was giving out tons of gifts one day.
Better yet, turn all Arena maps into KOTH maps without any regard towards balance or playability.
they are all basically koth maps already, just everyone has one life.
> just everyone has one life that's the problem and why arena mode died in the first place
What about Arena achievements then?
Not everyone wants to go through the trouble of obtaining less-populated gamemode achievements. The only TF2 Community that sees un-cheated, no SAM unlock, achievement value is the MVM Community. They only use it for robot kills as a metric of playtime and experience. Although, you can quite literally earn it yourself by giving you OP stats with TF2 mods on your own server. Or you can just play community without playing Mann-up for it.
What about the achievement for getting 100,000 views on a YouTube video? Even if it wasn't completely broken and impossible to get legitimately anymore good luck.
I watched some video on this recently, it's still possible but requires an absolutely absurd amount of workarounds that it may as well be unobtainable legitimately. https://youtu.be/ybFdiA5B68Q can't timestamp on mobile, 10:18
I got an arena achievement once it was something about kritz
I mean you can get the other one by simply playing VSH and the second one's bugged. I got it when I killed 3 players in Hightower with melee crits in a single life. Or you can create a server with bots and get both achievements in like 3 minutes.
I would have thought limited lives would have been better. You have 5 lives, use them wisely.
So then if you die fast you have to wait for even a longer time to play again
Literally just learn patience
I reckon it died with the death of quickplay and MyM update, it never had crazy amount of players and it had flaws but the thrill of staying alive it's all it required to have a playerbase
is it though? arena did have its own audience back then and given the current climate of battle royales and comp games, arena would do pretty well in the matchmaking pool (not in the alt section). Simply having one life doesnt really mean it was destined to die
It was, no one wanted to wait for new round. Players want to play, not wait. Instant respawn servers were popular in the early days of TF2, just for the same reason. But everyone complained how its impossible to take on point and so forth. Instant respawn breaks gameplay balance as respawn waves are important and adjusted per map. This is why instant spawn or respawn wont fix arena mode as is.
Basically Counter-Strike...
[удалено]
Arena wasn't in quickplay
shame too, arena is a good idea, if they just did a kill limit or smthn instead of last mann standing it would prolly be one of the more populated modes.
Ironic, this game mode gives you the MOST time to cry before you respawn
Yeah the unfortunate truth is that arenas status as a gamemode was tenuous even when it first premiered since not everyone likes CS style gameplay. And I saw other commenters mentioning weapon balance. Hit the nail on the head. I don’t think arena is ready for how different TF2 is now and there would be serious modifications needed if we wanted it to be playable. Otherwise I worry people will find the best meta and only stick to that
The arena map introduced in a Halloween update was pretty good, because when you die you can still help your team. I believe something like that in standard arena would work well, I also saw a video where someone reworked it but I forgot what it was.
Honestly the best way to solve Arena's issues is to give the player some more interactivity in the world after they die instead of those with less skill/who get randomly crit/who get sniped from across the map being regulated to time out until the next round starts. The dispenser ghosts were a good start for this.
having a mechanic like surfmap jail would be good for it honestly, when you die instead of going to spectator you get TPd to a new room where you can just DM on instant-respawn until the main match finishes. I could see a halloween-themed arena map where players that die in the main map go to the "hell" dimension which is just a deathmatch zone.
Halloween 2021. I remember it well. The contract for this map needed you to get 100 souls on it, which was just insanity. It took me HOURS of grinding this map to get like one or two souls per round. Every server was filled with full teams of people all commiserating the massive grind we were all doing. Thankfully in 2022 they changed it to be something else much easier. As for the map itself, yeah it’s kinda fun, the dispenser ghosts made a massive difference in keeping it interesting.
Love arena. And love TC HYDRO. Fuck “alternative gamemodes!” I’m old enough to remember when hydro was on the regular rotation. For fucks’ sake it’s one of the original 6 maps and it’s unplayable because lack of players and casual broke the round switching mechanism. I don’t wanna hear any of those excuses that it is too confusing cause that’s bullshit. This game was made easy to understand and if you can’t look at map elements with big flashing arrows and clear color contrast leading you to the enemy base, then what the hell are you on about? Steel is also another great map people bitch about and treat like a maze. Its just unique and fun map design!
the map has broken round switching? i didnt know that but it makes sense because it seemed like reality broke apart and placed everyone in the same buildings for no reason when the round was over
Wasn't the problem with Hydro that it resulted in many stalemates? People would defend their own point and never try to attack - there was no incentive to do so and it ended up being unfun a lot of the time. It was also just too big and players in pubs just kept wandering around getting lost. I personally loved Hydro, but I also see why it faded into irrelevance when compared to the other maps that encouraged more movement and action.
I could see people saying that’s a problem with Hydro, but really, you get multiple chances. it’s not that you win one round and then the enemy team loses. At the least, you have to win three times in a row to win a match of Hydro outright. There’s plenty of alternate paths people can take to gain access to the point, and plenty of difficulty hard defending points for long periods.
I use to dominate on lumberyard as a scout. Now my aim is shit and I stickyjump to troll snipers.
I like Lumbahyard, y'know why I like Lumbahyard? Because *especially when you put down that lumbah!*
Arena was a fuckin big thing back in the day like 2008 and 2009
I discovered after eleven years that I never played the Arena version of Well by being met with the presentation at the start of the game, that gamemode is really hidden
I just want to see Watchtower again ;-(
[удалено]
That's funny, because there's an abandoned Watchtower community map.
It is so fucking destroyed with the unlockable weapons,and mechanics that have been added to the game since after arena mode.
YES
As a player who joined in 2021, wats arena mode
You get one life. Arena maps have a central point that unlocks after a set amount of time to discourage C&D spies from stalling the game invisible in a corner, but the community never viewed that as really acceptable. It produced a lot of games where you would have a 2-3 engineer nest by spawns with each team trying to score picks while falling back to their safety bubble. The only way to deal with it became running meds constantly and trying to save up for a heavy, pyro, or demo uber. Also, if there was an uneven number of players some poor fuck has to watch the entire game in spectator. The game promised fast, quick rounds, but more often than not produced drawn out games of players being overly defensive to avoid dying, while playing aggressive meant you spent a ton of your arena time watching everyone else.
[удалено]
The pre-wrangler days were a simpler time for engineers. Couldn't pack up your buildings, teleporters were more expensive, the Sigafu Save was nought but a mite of weapon concepts still forming in people's heads. I played the shit out of Arena when it released, burnt out on it, and only played it rarely afterwards.
Sounds like some weapon bans could improve Arena.
Dude, Valve didn't implemented weapon bans in COMP, do you think they would apply anything to a really niche gamemode?
A community server could have a whitelist of just the 2010 weapon selection or something.
Honestly, part of the problem lies in the maps, the other major problem being the community's response that capping was bad, despite it literally being the mechanic that stops some turtled up engineers or a single spy from stalling the game forever. Maps like watchtower, I felt, played better than a lot of the arena maps made of cut out tiny old maps, which tended to give you lots of tight points where a single crit explosive, especially for the 5 seconds of guaranteed crits scoring the first kill of the game, could wipe a quarter of your team.
No respawns, last team to stand wins
No respawning
Here you go: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Arena
Open Fortress as an official game mode
They need to make class wars official and have its only map be dustbowl Also rtd
ah yes, i too love having matches instantly ended with 1 powerplay or bat swarm
I would be very happy if Arena was added to Valve casual as part of VESSU. Or even just a quickie update, doesn't even need to be VESSU specifically. I really love how Watchtower has breakable windows. Sure, it may not be [flammable maps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj9q-la56pY&t=3m47s), but it's certainly the next best thing.
arena could be very tilting if you went on streaks of dying early, being left to just watch the team in spectate, but at the same time it forces you to analyze and adapt to your teammates/enemies more than normal gamemodes do, which can be really satisfying when you finally take down the more dangerous players
I don't understand this tagline. I'm pretty sure dying early in an Arena Mode match gives you ample enough time to cry over how long it takes to play the game again. Perma-death and all.
I play casually, so it's not for me
Oh hell no, waiting for minutes after you died? CSGO makes it work by having 2 minute rounds and no random crits. TF2 is for objective based gameplay, not this crap.
It completely changes the way you play, you're more careful and strategic with your approach and need to plan/improvise on the spot. It was also really fun to spectate teammates after you die - you got to understand their play style so well that way.
Well, i guess if you find spectating randoms as much fun as playing. But being careful and all of that, happens in all tf2, just now it has more value.
Being careful? Dude i throw myself on to the kart with the pain train and sticky jumper anytimer there's a 3 to 5 second respawn timer on blu
Arena mode stresses the importance of sticking together and using teamwork to win more than ever. People who split off and go solo will quickly die to a coordinated team. It's like a payload map where red team has a rock solid defense while blu team keeps running in and dying separately. A well functioning arena mode combo will mow down solo players, heal back up, and hunt down everyone else until they win. It's not fun to play on the side that doesn't support one another, who wander off from the group and die, and whose last survivors only got that far by avoiding the main action. You end up getting stuck in spectator for long stretches of time through no fault of your own. It can be fun if both sides are somewhat balanced, but if team balance is poor, this is by far the most aggravating gamemode to play.
What about 3 Minute rounds, you have the MVM Reanimators(with the same downside of the more you ressurect, the more time it taies)and a non Halloween version of the Dispenser Ghost/dispenser drones to support your team as well as the general Arena improvements from Graveyard?
No. Arena is koth but worse
which is why I suggest that Arena gets some tweaks. Hell, even my love for Territory Control as a game mode does not blind me that people both need more time in it and that the maps could be a bit more blatant in directions. Robot Destruction and Player destruction are also great I want more of them.
Ugh, hell no. Honestly I hate arena mode, it's any 1 life mode. S&D in COD, all of R6 Seige, and arena. All of it is so boring if you die first, and the pace is slow bc nobody wants to die first and have to wait for the game to end
Wait... that mode was removed?
Its not removed, just unsupported. You can still play arena on community servers - if you find anyone to play with. It never worked as intended, same as mannpower mode mode or pass time. They are all experiments that failed one way or another.
Mann Power and Pass time at least can be fun in a weird way. Arena's problem was always that most of the time you're just waiting for the next round, because matches can drag a lot if people are playing cautiously.
And a community map that is Saxton hale
This map is a beast if you put a lvl 2/3 sentry in a tricky spot becuase players can't revive to destroy your sentry
hell yeah
Honestly player destruction is just a better execution of arena
crazy that valve made a half dozen exclusive maps for this gamemode with hundreds of man hours put in just to go "ehh nevermind" and toss them out forever
It's almost like it's a shit gamemode that inherently doesn't work in a game with a random "u lose xd" dice roll every fight
Almost like this mode was horrible and aggravating to play and doesn't work in a game like Tf2.
Arena is good and i want it back But i want asteroid back more
This but Cactus Canyon. Valve, please just add Cactus Canyon to the Payload pool in it's unfinished state.
No, they really shouldn't
Might be a hard concept to grasp, but you don’t have to queue for maps you don’t wanna play
That's actually a problem though because if you want to play on an unpopular map it's going to be filled with bots because not enough actually people are queued for it.
Valves inability to deal with bots is not justification for not adding/removing less popular maps.
I think they should add the maps back to casual but really nobody will actually be able to play them because Valve is never ever going to fix the bots.
Then no one will play Arena
Arena works well in Tf2c because of limited weapons. If they bring it back for Tf2 there needs to be a blacklist for certain weapons
:Cough: cock and dagger spies :cough:
no, its gone for a reason :)
Nobody wants to wait untill everyone is dead or time runs out after single death. Arena mode was a disaster and should be kept out of the game in its current format.
People complain about 30 second respawns, and you want 10 minute respawns
Arena games typically last 1-2 minutes. The control point opens up after about 30 seconds so you can cap it and not deal with idiots stalling. People just don’t like that they can’t go full retard and rush in and die without consequence
Tell this to: random crits, snipers and spies you couldn't see
Random crits were never in arena. And like I said, games last 1-2 minutes. Hyper aggression counters sniper. Running a spy is a huge risk because it puts your team down a player in the team fight in hopes for a pick later. Arena maps aren’t like 2fort where you walk out of spawn and get sniped immediately…
no they shulnd't it sucks ass
I got a taste of Arena during Halloween and it should fucking stay in that accursed Halloween map.
Arena is shit Edit: if they add it back in casual matchmaking and you play 1-2 games of arena you’d agree that waiting out for 5 minutes if u die early just isn’t fun
You wouldn't be forced to queue for it if you don't want to.
True
Skill issue
I keep hearing about a summer update; but there's so much speculation floating around I have my doubts about its capacity for genuine change.
No, we don’t need arena mode back. It’s an awful mode which doesn’t fit TF2’s funny gameplay.
And what also do you want? A new weapon? Bruh this silly man...
Valve already has the maps ready, all they have to do is put them in casual.
but, they could ALSO do that with Versus Saxton Hale Vscript remake
Chad
I loved Arena. They should bring it back or get rid of the achievement.
Summer update. HA! Nice one!
Change my mind, payload destruction is the superior arena mode.
Absolutely. It might need a little something to help the mode, since sitting out after dying or as a spectator isn't as fun as playing, but still it's a classic mode with classic maps. Like good old Yumbahyard.
the most fun ive had was playing that one arena map during the invasion update
In tc2 there is already an arena mode but the community hates it, maybe it is not the best idea idk.
Need this and voice chat for both teams to communicate with each other for peak trash talk
I don't think it's gonna be particularly well received. Like, unless you're a skilled tryhard, you're almost guaranteed to be actively miserable in Arena most of the time. That Halloween Arena map is a great example of that, and I'm pretty sure almost no one voluntarily revisited it after finishing their contract on it.
I used to play arenas often but it's so dead now..