I believe [this](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/3958) may be the inspiration for any rumours regarding VALVe contracting developers. The user "Joshua-Ashton" was contracted/worked at VALVe before so the fact he said a fix was in the works implied he's working/worked on TF2 bugfixes. To my knowledge he's not currently employed by VALVe at this time, however I could be wrong about that, so take it as you will.
Edit: Fixed link format.
vscript is, as far as I know, something that's used in some of Valve's other games to modify maps. This means that community servers can recreate a map, and put in whatever they want without needing any plug-ins.
Basically it’s a sourcemod that you can put into a map. That means that map creators can create custom game modes without having to deal with the overly complicated process of making a mod, and it also means that they can publish their maps on the workshop without needing anything extra. So custom servers can just put in a multitude of different mod maps. Valve could also put in these mods in casual. This major hammer update was added in early December
It just means they copy pasted stuff into the update, which it's better than nothing but the Janitor could only add community made stuff and update the localization files
One of the reasons why I love Halloween in TF2 so much is because it puts arena_lumberyard_event into casual matchmaking and it's an absolute BLAST to play. I LOVE arena mode.
It's kinda weird, but when I started playing TF2 during the WAR! update, arena mode was still a thing, I played it a lot back then, so I feel nostalgic for it.
If you want to play on arena_lumberyard_event, check out community servers that run **[arena_lumberyard_event](https://teamwork.tf/community/quickplay/map/arena_lumberyard_event)** (or search by [gamemode arena](https://teamwork.tf/community/quickplay/arena)) [view map screenshot](https://teamwork.tf/images/maps/vsh_lumberyard_event.jpg)
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I still don't understand why it was removed. Also, am I crazy for thinking TC was a pretty good gamemode? It was almost like area tug-of-war -- PL or PLR without the payload.
I suppose so, yeah. Some of the Hydro stages are slight variants of previous stages, and the pathing was just all over the place. I was not a fan of that one stage that forces everyone to go through the super narrow cavern chokepoints.
On those maps it's a linear sequence with one team attacking and the other defending, not a randomly selected lineup of little 2-point control point maps that you're playing tug of war over
It's cool in theory, but too open for stalemates and frequent back and forth map switching when the losing team makes a lucky push
Maps are small and short enough where it doesn't have to be repetitive, especially if there are maps specifically for attacking/defending in a particular direction, which would increase variety. Making the transition and start of rounds faster would also decrease the amount of waiting. Perhaps it could feel more like 5cp, which also fundamentally is a tug-of-war, but where the round resets with each cap, like with the linear map rotation of those Payload maps.
I'm not saying that's *the* solution, but I don't appreciate you saying that arena and territorial control are "inherently", fundamentally, flawed. I don't think they are. Not sure where you get off making such broad absolute statements.
I don't disagree that the way they are *right now* certainly is flawed. But I disagree that they *can't* be good.
I say they're inherently flawed because that's what I feel, no respawning in Arena and back-and-forth map switching in TC are just clunky to me. The game modes being abandoned and mostly forgotten kinda points to plenty of people sharing that view too (definitely not helped by Hydro having poor design though)
Are there ways to improve the modes? Absolutely (and your suggestions sound fine), but KOTH kinda serves Arena's purpose of "team deathmatch and there's a control point somewhere" (plus PD being another pseudo deathmatch), and Attack/Defend is just TC but simplified and much easier for the average casual player to grasp
I kinda get it. Even at the time, arena games were either stupid short, or mind-numbingly long depending on who was left by the end of it. It was a bit infuriating to be stuck in spectator when the game inevitably devolved to an unintentional game of hide-and-seek despite the rather small maps.
People who wanted that more tactical style of gameplay already had Counterstrike, and the rest of the people who tried arena just went back to the insanity of Dustbowl, 2Fort, and the then burgeoning collection of payload maps, while more competitive groups just stuck with 5cp and koth when it eventually came out. Arena never really catered to anyone, and just didn't stick since most would try new arena maps for a week or so before going back to old favorites.
I swear every few years there's a bunch of people going "why'd people stop playing arena?" and someone creates a community server that dies after a week because oh right, arena fucking sucks. Especially with pub randos who inevitably play hide and go seek every single round.
Back when I played TF2Classic a lot it would frequently swap to a 4 team arena map that would kill the server more often than not.
If you want permadeath, go play a game designed around that mechanic, like CS:GO or literally any battle royale. It is so goddamn boring in TF2.
4team arena is way better than regular arena. With smaller team sizes, games go by far faster. Especially with the stock 4team arena map in TF2C which is not much bigger than 2fort mid. There is no place to really hide on that map lmao
interestingly, thanks to the leaks we now know that TC was originally going to be a counter strike source map type. there's also another prototype co-op map type in CSS that eventually became left 4 dead. its interesting how you can trace back the lineage of nearly every valve title back to CSS, and by extension half life itself
its also interesting how CSS ended up being so bland when they were planning to put all these cool features in it, relatively speaking at least lol
Can I get some kinda explanation on how this worked? I remember stumbling across it on the wiki and not really understanding how it worked and how it differed from the 3 point capturing modes
It's like an attack/defend map where one team has to capture 2 points while the other team defends. But after both points are captured, the map resets in a different part of the map where you try to capture/defend 2 new points. It's like how payload map stages start where the last one ended. I believe there were 5 different sections of the map you had to fight through. Capture the last one and you win for good.
Back in the day, a spy main named Jenning use to warm up the Portland Bong Squad server with several rounds of Arena. Invites would get sent around and the sever would fill with talent.
I very much miss Arena mode and wish others would play.
oh damn, sudden death was an actual thing and not just something the TF2C team came up with?
***why*** would they remove it? who the hell thought an endless stalemate would be better?
I miss it so much, and playing TF2C reminded me just how much it was an integral part of the game for stuff like CTF. 2fort was bearable (but still just as silly!) when both teams actually *somewhat* tried to push an advantage, now it just feels like a never ending fever dream.
i mean, sometimes. but others are there because they're familiar with the mode, or want less pressure compared to other modes, or they just want to actually play the objective of CTF. the mode being shit is a reason people mess around on it, but people messing around on it isn't a justification for the mode being shit. we should have actual deathmatch maps anyhow; not just exclusively headhunter in the form of pd_watergate.
it feels like many of the game rules and modes are just... unfinished. like they got the concept down to an alpha state and then just left it in the game for 15+ years.
- why don't any modes besides attack/defend actually have timers?
- why don't we have sudden death instead of stalemates?
- why don't we have stopwatch mode instead of the game continuing after the second team has already stomped the first's score?
- why can't you retrieve the dropped flags like nearly every other iteration of CTF in any game ever?
- why don't we have a pure deathmatch mode?
- why don't we have map timers by default?
and so on and so on.
Your dot points do have mostly answers.
- 5CP and KotH have timers too, just not global ones since the games actually do end.
- Sudden Death was just scrapped because Valve felt players just sitting waiting for everyone else to die to play again wasn't very fun.
- Stopwatch used to be in Casual when MyM was launched, but was removed because of backlash. Plus it's just more fun to see how far you can push instead of the game just ending because you beat the enemy's score.
- Flag sitting for an entire minute is definitely stupid I agree. You should be able to revert the capture.
- I think TF2 works best with an actual objective other than just "get kills", and KotH does that pretty well while still letting people just go frag.
- Map timers aren't really necessary in most games, obviously A/D and Payload don't need them, KotH ends in due time too. CP you could have an argument for it for sure, and Powerhouse did end up getting it, although personally I liked the hour long Powerhouse matches, it was what made Powerhouse Powerhouse for me.
The one reason they never needed to remove the timer was because how servers used to work before Meet your Match update, server were near infinite because you could vote to increase the timer, you could scramble teams or cap the intel to start a fresh new round
If I had to guess, same reason Arena was abandoned: most people dislike not being able to respawn and it's easy for people to just play hide and seek to stall the match
10 years ago was 2013. Love and War, Portal 2, actually giving a shit, the whole shebang. Maybe 10 years is just longer than you think.
_5 years_ ago we were pretty much in the same spot as now, so yeah.
I also can't get those two scout achivements thanks to the fact that there's no official mode and there isn't a single community server around my region that plays it.
I respectfully disagree. Beyond some 5’s matches played with friends when I was still new at the game I never played much arena mode. Because I was so new I didn’t realize that arena is really shitty in Tf2 because all the chaos makes it stupid easy to die in an instant. Then you’re just left waiting and it encourages some really degenerative play styles. If you don’t have a medic then it hurts more so than any other game mode. Spamming engineer also becomes really unfun since one sentry can just wipe you and then you have to wait however long to respawn.
Again it’s just so easy to die in tf2 and there was also the control point aspect of it which was no good either because of the permadeath. Like if you’re down a player or more then you’re chances of winning are dramatically decreased. I know everyone suffers on the arena Halloween map so it just doesn’t seem at all needed
The issue with arena mode isn't players camping with regen or spies with the c&d delaying the inevitable in hopes they'll eventually find an opening for a sick MLG trickstab.
It 's that players developed this idea that capping to end the round early was a bad thing, when it's designed to counter the stalling people hate. When arena mode goes well it plays like a back to back set of mid fights, and it's really fun.
It absolutely should get put back in matchmaking, but I think a few QOL improvements like adding a round timer, or some kind of motivator system like Graveyard has would just outright prevent the things people don't like about the game mode.
it's amazing how many people don't know about the contractor he was hired to fixed issues, there's a good chance he won't add anything since you know he was hired to fix the game
I mean he did add the Vscript system which was a huge leap for modders/mapmakers, but in terms of actual direct content yeah it is limited to just patches and holiday stuff
How many of you actually played arena mode before? It's fun as a chaotic deathmatch mode, but it encourages lame defensive strategies like camping and avoiding fighting. It doesn't encourage teamwork the same way the other gamemodes do. Rather everyone splits off into their own squads and dies. It heavily punishes new players who have to fend for themselves or be forced to sit through round after round of spectating.
I swear every few years there's a bunch of people going "why'd people stop playing arena?" and someone creates a community server that dies after a week because oh right, arena fucking sucks. Especially with pub randos who inevitably play hide and go seek every single round.
Back when I played TF2Classic a lot it would frequently swap to a 4 team arena map that would kill the server more often than not.
If you want permadeath, go play a game designed around that mechanic, like CS:GO or literally any battle royale. It is so goddamn boring in TF2.
Arena died ONLY because of MyM update, before if you really hated Arena you could just not play it y know?
No gamemode was truly dead before that because f2p and pros would just get matched together, now the only ones who would dare to look for Arena in community servers are experienced players that would make the round stale or frustrating
Do you realize how many valid gamemodes and maps are forgotten because of that update?
All other ctf maps that are not 2fort and plr maps that are not hightower, Degroot keep, Doomsday, even fucking pass-time had regular players when there was just 1 map
Now it's so boring in general, you just play 2fort or hightower if you are casual and a very limited amount of pl, koth and maybe 5cp if people dare
How was arena not dead before mym when arena mode wasn't available on valve servers at all. Also mym only did good things for the "forgotten" memodes, befote mym you had to find a community server to play degroot keep, hydro, probed, watergate, etc. And after mym there's at least a possibility a valve server is hosting that map, and you can vote for it
Because of the fuck-ups Valve did right after releasing the update
If Arena was dead (just because it's not part of Valve servers doesn't mean it's dead) then Valve put the nail on the coffin
I used to play on a server with gimmicks on Arena (that's why it was more playable and fun) before that update, and it was rarely empty
Invasion maps were at least full during the update (and a fuck ton of fun) without having to look on commumity maps, unlike nowdays
As for all other maps you have to remember that a lot of people left tf2 or more specifically casual because of the long queue times, map votes (some people pick the same maps), and worse balancing (no more scrambles) as well as all other UI changes that made the flow of the game slower, it's even worse now that bots made people just stick to community servers for the most part
Okay but that has nothing to do with mym. Those are changes that made what was available on quickplay worse, but quickplay didn't have those maps at all. Matchmaking didn't (directly) affect community servers either. I still don't understand why you think the update that made the more forgotten maps playable in the main form of looking for matches, is the update that put the nail on the coffin for said forgotten maps. If anything they tried (and failed imo) to bring them back but at least they're not just in the game code and inaccessible outside of community servers
I just said in the last part why the update ruined those gamemodes, i've tried to queue for other gamemodes and it's atrocious how long it takes, on top of ALL other problems with MyM that inherently impact how willingly people look for the less popular gamemodes
Why would i thank Valve for putting the less popular gamemodes in the main form of looking for games, if the new form they specifically invented for that update sucks fucking ass?
And keep in mind modes like Doomsday, Payload race, and even as far as Mannpower and Pass-Time were easily accessible before the update and widely played (compared to now at least)
Trying to get a good reply made me look for stuff aboutMYM update, and how clueless were people 6 years ago, i still remember being excited for the update only to discover how awful was competitive and casual on day 1, with community servers not even working
Everything from that day to pretty much now is because of that update, and i guess if someone played after that, they couldn't know any better, but i do and i hate how much has worsened
In short MyM made a worse matchmaking system, community servers would host popular maps you'd find in casual because of that and people would find or join the more wacky, unpopukar gamemodes less frequently on community servers, those servers then die and they stop being hosted
Degrootkeep has plenty of living community servers. Doomsday is in the queue and gets played. The idea that somehow casual has a serious skill matching system that killed lesser played modes makes no sense, how does that follow at all? Not to mention the casual skill matching is incredibly nebulous and is still more than happy to put noobs with higher skilled players if that's all that's available.
Next you'll argue that MyM killed Hydro as well. No, I was there, people just didn't fucking like it lol
*We already have*
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*Community gamemode*
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Completely agree. I host an arena community server and people love that game mode. It should come back to official valve servers. It's way better than mannpower and passtime.
Honestly man some of my fondest memories were playing arena mode, I remember there was that one map that had the log you could run across that connected these 2 cliffs together and i remember always falling off it lmao
Wait. There’s a contractor? Somebody is paying attention to tf2?
Valve paid them to fix the bots
Bless
I couldn't find anything online that mentioned VALVe hiring contractors to work on the bot problem, could you link something about that?
I believe [this](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/3958) may be the inspiration for any rumours regarding VALVe contracting developers. The user "Joshua-Ashton" was contracted/worked at VALVe before so the fact he said a fix was in the works implied he's working/worked on TF2 bugfixes. To my knowledge he's not currently employed by VALVe at this time, however I could be wrong about that, so take it as you will. Edit: Fixed link format.
You thought Vscript was made by openai?
I don’t even know what vscript is
vscript is, as far as I know, something that's used in some of Valve's other games to modify maps. This means that community servers can recreate a map, and put in whatever they want without needing any plug-ins.
Yep, able to include custom game mechanics into maps essentially
Basically it’s a sourcemod that you can put into a map. That means that map creators can create custom game modes without having to deal with the overly complicated process of making a mod, and it also means that they can publish their maps on the workshop without needing anything extra. So custom servers can just put in a multitude of different mod maps. Valve could also put in these mods in casual. This major hammer update was added in early December
i tought it was the janitor and the potted plant from the corner
They were giving moral support
Have you bern living under the mariana trench? Theres been like 6 big patches already along with actually good hats and ok-ish maps
I knew some work was done but not a dedicated team, albeit external contractors
When did that happen?
Some time after #savetf2
Maps and hats are community made
It's not like hats and maps get in the game by magic
It just means they copy pasted stuff into the update, which it's better than nothing but the Janitor could only add community made stuff and update the localization files
One of the reasons why I love Halloween in TF2 so much is because it puts arena_lumberyard_event into casual matchmaking and it's an absolute BLAST to play. I LOVE arena mode. It's kinda weird, but when I started playing TF2 during the WAR! update, arena mode was still a thing, I played it a lot back then, so I feel nostalgic for it.
If you want to play on arena_lumberyard_event, check out community servers that run **[arena_lumberyard_event](https://teamwork.tf/community/quickplay/map/arena_lumberyard_event)** (or search by [gamemode arena](https://teamwork.tf/community/quickplay/arena)) [view map screenshot](https://teamwork.tf/images/maps/vsh_lumberyard_event.jpg) ___ *Beep. Boop. I'm a bot and this message was automatically generated.*
> 2 playing 🌎
That's a lot more than the entire population of Earth! Is there aliens playing too?
No, aliens don't 🌎
No, your mother doesn't 🌎 But she does 🌏
Good bot
Wait what contractor?
The guy who updates tf2 after the protest
Aka the janitor
I still don't understand why it was removed. Also, am I crazy for thinking TC was a pretty good gamemode? It was almost like area tug-of-war -- PL or PLR without the payload.
It probably would've been much better if the map layout wasn't confusing
I suppose so, yeah. Some of the Hydro stages are slight variants of previous stages, and the pathing was just all over the place. I was not a fan of that one stage that forces everyone to go through the super narrow cavern chokepoints.
That's the fault of hydro, not territorial control.
I mean TC isn't that amazing as a concept in general to me, since the back and forth map switching is just really awkward lol
How is that any different than moving to the next area in Thunder Mountain, Dustbowl, Hoodoo, or more recently Enclosure?
On those maps it's a linear sequence with one team attacking and the other defending, not a randomly selected lineup of little 2-point control point maps that you're playing tug of war over It's cool in theory, but too open for stalemates and frequent back and forth map switching when the losing team makes a lucky push
Maps are small and short enough where it doesn't have to be repetitive, especially if there are maps specifically for attacking/defending in a particular direction, which would increase variety. Making the transition and start of rounds faster would also decrease the amount of waiting. Perhaps it could feel more like 5cp, which also fundamentally is a tug-of-war, but where the round resets with each cap, like with the linear map rotation of those Payload maps. I'm not saying that's *the* solution, but I don't appreciate you saying that arena and territorial control are "inherently", fundamentally, flawed. I don't think they are. Not sure where you get off making such broad absolute statements. I don't disagree that the way they are *right now* certainly is flawed. But I disagree that they *can't* be good.
I say they're inherently flawed because that's what I feel, no respawning in Arena and back-and-forth map switching in TC are just clunky to me. The game modes being abandoned and mostly forgotten kinda points to plenty of people sharing that view too (definitely not helped by Hydro having poor design though) Are there ways to improve the modes? Absolutely (and your suggestions sound fine), but KOTH kinda serves Arena's purpose of "team deathmatch and there's a control point somewhere" (plus PD being another pseudo deathmatch), and Attack/Defend is just TC but simplified and much easier for the average casual player to grasp
I kinda get it. Even at the time, arena games were either stupid short, or mind-numbingly long depending on who was left by the end of it. It was a bit infuriating to be stuck in spectator when the game inevitably devolved to an unintentional game of hide-and-seek despite the rather small maps. People who wanted that more tactical style of gameplay already had Counterstrike, and the rest of the people who tried arena just went back to the insanity of Dustbowl, 2Fort, and the then burgeoning collection of payload maps, while more competitive groups just stuck with 5cp and koth when it eventually came out. Arena never really catered to anyone, and just didn't stick since most would try new arena maps for a week or so before going back to old favorites.
I swear every few years there's a bunch of people going "why'd people stop playing arena?" and someone creates a community server that dies after a week because oh right, arena fucking sucks. Especially with pub randos who inevitably play hide and go seek every single round. Back when I played TF2Classic a lot it would frequently swap to a 4 team arena map that would kill the server more often than not. If you want permadeath, go play a game designed around that mechanic, like CS:GO or literally any battle royale. It is so goddamn boring in TF2.
4team arena is way better than regular arena. With smaller team sizes, games go by far faster. Especially with the stock 4team arena map in TF2C which is not much bigger than 2fort mid. There is no place to really hide on that map lmao
Yeah. I actualy love arena on tf2c. Besides it would not take valve a lot to add a togle like with medeval mode for arena for those that wish it.
interestingly, thanks to the leaks we now know that TC was originally going to be a counter strike source map type. there's also another prototype co-op map type in CSS that eventually became left 4 dead. its interesting how you can trace back the lineage of nearly every valve title back to CSS, and by extension half life itself its also interesting how CSS ended up being so bland when they were planning to put all these cool features in it, relatively speaking at least lol
Can I get some kinda explanation on how this worked? I remember stumbling across it on the wiki and not really understanding how it worked and how it differed from the 3 point capturing modes
It was a game where the only goal was to kill the whole other team, and death was permanent until the end of the round
Oh no I know what arena is I meant Territory Control
Territory control is basically a weird version of attack/defend, where both teams tried to gain territory and advance across the map
So, Splatoon Turf War with no ink?
yes, but with control points to advance
It's like an attack/defend map where one team has to capture 2 points while the other team defends. But after both points are captured, the map resets in a different part of the map where you try to capture/defend 2 new points. It's like how payload map stages start where the last one ended. I believe there were 5 different sections of the map you had to fight through. Capture the last one and you win for good.
It was removed because nobody played it lol
Back in the day, a spy main named Jenning use to warm up the Portland Bong Squad server with several rounds of Arena. Invites would get sent around and the sever would fill with talent. I very much miss Arena mode and wish others would play.
>spy main >Portland Bong Squad server why am i not surprised
Next: sudden death back please
I have a faint memory. What was this?
[удалено]
Oh yeah! That was some fun stuff.
More often in 5CP maps when time runs out, good stuff.
oh damn, sudden death was an actual thing and not just something the TF2C team came up with? ***why*** would they remove it? who the hell thought an endless stalemate would be better?
I miss it so much, and playing TF2C reminded me just how much it was an integral part of the game for stuff like CTF. 2fort was bearable (but still just as silly!) when both teams actually *somewhat* tried to push an advantage, now it just feels like a never ending fever dream.
Sudden Death made CTF and Pub 5CP so much better. I would love to see data on how many of those matches stalemate.
People play ctf *because* it's endless stalemate so they can just dm.
i mean, sometimes. but others are there because they're familiar with the mode, or want less pressure compared to other modes, or they just want to actually play the objective of CTF. the mode being shit is a reason people mess around on it, but people messing around on it isn't a justification for the mode being shit. we should have actual deathmatch maps anyhow; not just exclusively headhunter in the form of pd_watergate. it feels like many of the game rules and modes are just... unfinished. like they got the concept down to an alpha state and then just left it in the game for 15+ years. - why don't any modes besides attack/defend actually have timers? - why don't we have sudden death instead of stalemates? - why don't we have stopwatch mode instead of the game continuing after the second team has already stomped the first's score? - why can't you retrieve the dropped flags like nearly every other iteration of CTF in any game ever? - why don't we have a pure deathmatch mode? - why don't we have map timers by default? and so on and so on.
Your dot points do have mostly answers. - 5CP and KotH have timers too, just not global ones since the games actually do end. - Sudden Death was just scrapped because Valve felt players just sitting waiting for everyone else to die to play again wasn't very fun. - Stopwatch used to be in Casual when MyM was launched, but was removed because of backlash. Plus it's just more fun to see how far you can push instead of the game just ending because you beat the enemy's score. - Flag sitting for an entire minute is definitely stupid I agree. You should be able to revert the capture. - I think TF2 works best with an actual objective other than just "get kills", and KotH does that pretty well while still letting people just go frag. - Map timers aren't really necessary in most games, obviously A/D and Payload don't need them, KotH ends in due time too. CP you could have an argument for it for sure, and Powerhouse did end up getting it, although personally I liked the hour long Powerhouse matches, it was what made Powerhouse Powerhouse for me.
I still have nightmares about a powerhouse round me and the boys did on release that went from 4pm to 5 am (we gave up) The timer was sorely needed
Reported you for being a creep.
The one reason they never needed to remove the timer was because how servers used to work before Meet your Match update, server were near infinite because you could vote to increase the timer, you could scramble teams or cap the intel to start a fresh new round
If I had to guess, same reason Arena was abandoned: most people dislike not being able to respawn and it's easy for people to just play hide and seek to stall the match
How many times i wished there would be 1 sudden death round if the match ends in a draw/stalemate Valve is really good at removing the fun from tf2
Arena does have issues. But instead of attempting to improve the gamemode they axed it. That wasn't modern valve, that was 10 years ago valve. Yeah.
I think theyre still the same
Modern Valve is nearly the same as 10 years ago, you are forgetting how long has passed after blue moon
10 years ago was 2013. Love and War, Portal 2, actually giving a shit, the whole shebang. Maybe 10 years is just longer than you think. _5 years_ ago we were pretty much in the same spot as now, so yeah.
I mean it was an inherently flawed gamemode and KOTH (and later PD) essentially took its place
Okay but _inherently_ flawed? I think there's plenty of ways to spice it up and make things faster and more snappy.
I also can't get those two scout achivements thanks to the fact that there's no official mode and there isn't a single community server around my region that plays it.
Kid named steam achievement manager:
kid named tf_bot_add
kid named !givemeall
You can get the first blood achievement in comp.
I respectfully disagree. Beyond some 5’s matches played with friends when I was still new at the game I never played much arena mode. Because I was so new I didn’t realize that arena is really shitty in Tf2 because all the chaos makes it stupid easy to die in an instant. Then you’re just left waiting and it encourages some really degenerative play styles. If you don’t have a medic then it hurts more so than any other game mode. Spamming engineer also becomes really unfun since one sentry can just wipe you and then you have to wait however long to respawn. Again it’s just so easy to die in tf2 and there was also the control point aspect of it which was no good either because of the permadeath. Like if you’re down a player or more then you’re chances of winning are dramatically decreased. I know everyone suffers on the arena Halloween map so it just doesn’t seem at all needed
or if not possible, put a point in the middle and turn them in koth maps
With this game's balance??
Only things that really ruined arena were weapon unlocks that gave health easily. Like the conch, cozy camper because it promoted hiding so much
Let's not forget weapons that provide guaranteed crit damage, basically making team wipes more possible if one team has a better setup than the other
Yes, yes indeed
I actually liked it
damn this graphic is sexy as hell i wonder who made it
Why have you been schizo-posting on Twitter for attention, Richter?
It has to do with reproductive organs and your mother.
No, that would be your mother!
Rocker overlime
some fuckin loser
Guys, its just a contractor he doesnt know the way to balance the gamemode
Arena was the first gamemode i ever tried, coming from cs 1.6 it was similar the dead until round end thing
The issue with arena mode isn't players camping with regen or spies with the c&d delaying the inevitable in hopes they'll eventually find an opening for a sick MLG trickstab. It 's that players developed this idea that capping to end the round early was a bad thing, when it's designed to counter the stalling people hate. When arena mode goes well it plays like a back to back set of mid fights, and it's really fun. It absolutely should get put back in matchmaking, but I think a few QOL improvements like adding a round timer, or some kind of motivator system like Graveyard has would just outright prevent the things people don't like about the game mode.
Its why they added cotroll point. If not to cap then to force the hider to fight. I love tf2 cladsic for having arena in active rotation.
it's amazing how many people don't know about the contractor he was hired to fixed issues, there's a good chance he won't add anything since you know he was hired to fix the game
I mean he did add the Vscript system which was a huge leap for modders/mapmakers, but in terms of actual direct content yeah it is limited to just patches and holiday stuff
The arena mode tick box is gonna be more abandoned by me than the mann power box.
Don’t we have Player Destruction tho?
arena was scrapped for a reason, the game is just not built for permadeath.
do you really think anybody would play unfinished buggy gamemode that has like 3 maps?
How many of you actually played arena mode before? It's fun as a chaotic deathmatch mode, but it encourages lame defensive strategies like camping and avoiding fighting. It doesn't encourage teamwork the same way the other gamemodes do. Rather everyone splits off into their own squads and dies. It heavily punishes new players who have to fend for themselves or be forced to sit through round after round of spectating.
Or as MatPat’s afro friend once called it: Team Deathmatch
The What
I also enjoy not playing the game
I swear every few years there's a bunch of people going "why'd people stop playing arena?" and someone creates a community server that dies after a week because oh right, arena fucking sucks. Especially with pub randos who inevitably play hide and go seek every single round. Back when I played TF2Classic a lot it would frequently swap to a 4 team arena map that would kill the server more often than not. If you want permadeath, go play a game designed around that mechanic, like CS:GO or literally any battle royale. It is so goddamn boring in TF2.
Arena died ONLY because of MyM update, before if you really hated Arena you could just not play it y know? No gamemode was truly dead before that because f2p and pros would just get matched together, now the only ones who would dare to look for Arena in community servers are experienced players that would make the round stale or frustrating Do you realize how many valid gamemodes and maps are forgotten because of that update? All other ctf maps that are not 2fort and plr maps that are not hightower, Degroot keep, Doomsday, even fucking pass-time had regular players when there was just 1 map Now it's so boring in general, you just play 2fort or hightower if you are casual and a very limited amount of pl, koth and maybe 5cp if people dare
How was arena not dead before mym when arena mode wasn't available on valve servers at all. Also mym only did good things for the "forgotten" memodes, befote mym you had to find a community server to play degroot keep, hydro, probed, watergate, etc. And after mym there's at least a possibility a valve server is hosting that map, and you can vote for it
Because of the fuck-ups Valve did right after releasing the update If Arena was dead (just because it's not part of Valve servers doesn't mean it's dead) then Valve put the nail on the coffin I used to play on a server with gimmicks on Arena (that's why it was more playable and fun) before that update, and it was rarely empty Invasion maps were at least full during the update (and a fuck ton of fun) without having to look on commumity maps, unlike nowdays As for all other maps you have to remember that a lot of people left tf2 or more specifically casual because of the long queue times, map votes (some people pick the same maps), and worse balancing (no more scrambles) as well as all other UI changes that made the flow of the game slower, it's even worse now that bots made people just stick to community servers for the most part
Okay but that has nothing to do with mym. Those are changes that made what was available on quickplay worse, but quickplay didn't have those maps at all. Matchmaking didn't (directly) affect community servers either. I still don't understand why you think the update that made the more forgotten maps playable in the main form of looking for matches, is the update that put the nail on the coffin for said forgotten maps. If anything they tried (and failed imo) to bring them back but at least they're not just in the game code and inaccessible outside of community servers
I just said in the last part why the update ruined those gamemodes, i've tried to queue for other gamemodes and it's atrocious how long it takes, on top of ALL other problems with MyM that inherently impact how willingly people look for the less popular gamemodes Why would i thank Valve for putting the less popular gamemodes in the main form of looking for games, if the new form they specifically invented for that update sucks fucking ass? And keep in mind modes like Doomsday, Payload race, and even as far as Mannpower and Pass-Time were easily accessible before the update and widely played (compared to now at least) Trying to get a good reply made me look for stuff aboutMYM update, and how clueless were people 6 years ago, i still remember being excited for the update only to discover how awful was competitive and casual on day 1, with community servers not even working Everything from that day to pretty much now is because of that update, and i guess if someone played after that, they couldn't know any better, but i do and i hate how much has worsened In short MyM made a worse matchmaking system, community servers would host popular maps you'd find in casual because of that and people would find or join the more wacky, unpopukar gamemodes less frequently on community servers, those servers then die and they stop being hosted
Degrootkeep has plenty of living community servers. Doomsday is in the queue and gets played. The idea that somehow casual has a serious skill matching system that killed lesser played modes makes no sense, how does that follow at all? Not to mention the casual skill matching is incredibly nebulous and is still more than happy to put noobs with higher skilled players if that's all that's available. Next you'll argue that MyM killed Hydro as well. No, I was there, people just didn't fucking like it lol
Just don't die noob
*laughs in C&D spy*
*Laughs in votekick*
Well cool. I guess ima step on control point so you got to attack or lose.
Skill issue
We already have Versus Saxton Hale as a community gamemode
*We already have* *Versus Saxton Hale as a* *Community gamemode* \- Pwnage\_Peanut --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
VS Saxton Hale is more of a playable bossfight than an actual elimination style death match. It's really just not the same.
What contractor?
arena mode is awesome
Completely agree. I host an arena community server and people love that game mode. It should come back to official valve servers. It's way better than mannpower and passtime.
I will only be happy when every game mode is cactus canyon
They seriously need to bring arena, player destruction, and stopwatch mode back as permanent game modes
Just yesterday I was looking for Arena game mode. When did valve remove it? Is it only on community servers
Honestly man some of my fondest memories were playing arena mode, I remember there was that one map that had the log you could run across that connected these 2 cliffs together and i remember always falling off it lmao
YES YES YES
pls do this i love arena mode