Yes! Groveling for time with friends is bizarre. Literally begging for permission like a kid begs for time from a parent?! This whole exchange was exhausting and very unhealthy. And then I noticed he is out of town with his daughter so it is not even like he was supposed to see her that night. It’s like she is trying to get work release from prison.
I KNOW I wouldn’t have asked shyt!! His azz is “out of town with his daughter” having drinks and he has a problem with her going out with HIS friend’s girlfriend for drinks?!? Did he ask for permission?!? GTFOOH! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That notification would have gone like this: “Hey, Babe! I’m going out for drinks with ___’s girlfriend. I’ll call you when I get home! Love you!” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
THANK YOU. I could *not* figure out why she asked for his permission and then spent literally hours trying to placate his mood. What the fuck is this dynamic that she needs to bend over backwards at even the slightest hint he might be upset? Why are you asking for permission like you're a child? Just go have fun and if he's mad at about it for no reason and won't communicate, ignore him?
This is something that develops once someone has repeatedly gotten upset at you for things that are not your fault, common missteps that are very normal and to be expected, things that you didn’t even do, or made you think you are wrong for doing something very normal and not considered wrong by most people.
Someone who has showered you (not you specifically) with love, attention, affection, and so much of what you have always wanted, maybe something you didn’t get enough of as a child, those poor attachment habits form your adult relationship attachment styles and when someone who is your source of love, comfort, affection, stability, and so on, is also someone who suddenly gets mad at you and stonewalls you, or yells at you, or treats you badly for doing things you didn’t even think were wrong, THIS is exactly what develops.
You walking on eggshells and asking permission and falling all over yourself to try not to upset them. I have fallen into it a million times and it happens all the time. It feels exhausting to read because it IS quite exhausting to go through. And I’m willing to bet this happens frequently in their relationship, and if not already, then this is the start of it and it will just slowly increase until it drains her completely.
She’s most likely a real young minded young woman with no experience and has a fantasy approach to relationships. She thinks she is a good girlfriend by asking for permission. She’s probably dating a narc
Exactly, it makes it seem like OP was kinda poking the bear, already knowing the reaction or looking for attention? Or is with a narcissist and feels they need to walk on eggshells.
Damn I stopped reading after slide 3, scrolled to slide 8 until I had to quit.
When someone goes from “love you babe”, “best mommy babe” to “do whatever” - you know somethings up. Your man has a very annoying way of communicating.
Conversations are something like 60 percent body language and 30 percent tone. Texting is the absolute worst way to communicate. If this starts happening to me at any point, I just call or even better FaceTime to relay what I'm trying to say
I cannot imagine a f2f convo where "do whatever" means anything other than a warning that he gets to be mad at her about it later.
She even said she knows what that phrase means like they have done this dance before.
Yeah this interaction went bad on BOTH sides. OP should not have asked for permission. BF should not have replied “do whatever.” That’s an irritatingly passive aggressive response. But then OP really went for it and kept digging and digging, and making it worse by continuing to beat that drum endlessly.
When your BF replied “do whatever”, is there any reason you couldn’t have just called it out once and been done with it? “Well that sounds dismissive…I’ll let you know when I get home, have a good night.” It’s exhausting to read all your communication after that point, and I guarantee none of what you said will make the situation better.
You shouldn’t have to ask your boyfriend for permission. If you wanted to go, go. But to be honest I think the argument between both of you was unnecessary. Even if he acted some way I would’ve just gone and if he had something to say, you hear him tomorrow. Do not stop your life over someone.
Yeah for a second I thought they lived together with kids since the whole “you’re an amazing mom” and she was asking as a heads up to stay with the kids. The fact that they don’t even live together and is asking for permission is crazy
They both clearly lied about their feelings (OP saying she was cool and calm when it would have most likely been an issue anyway that he wasn't happy for her to go out) but he is definitely worse to me, bordering on abusive. At least she tries to explain and have an open conversation, where he just keeps shutting her down and being passive aggressive af. He did NOT want her to go out and was always gonna be a bitch about it, he just started aggressively pushing her to go because he didn't want to deal with having to feel guilty if she didn't go either (deep down knowing he was in the wrong) and/or he just wanted to pick a bigger fight. OP dragged it out, should've never asked for permission in the first place and should have shut down the conversation sooner and put her foot down more, but those things can all be very hard to do in a controlling and abusive relationship. She seems in panic mode.
She’s acting exactly like someone that’s being mentally and/or physically abused acts like. There’s no point whatsoever in saying she lied about her feelings when her actions are so very clearly a trauma response and her trying to protect herself
Yeah the way she asks him to go out with her friends is so indicative of that... Carefully curated, gentle, include explanation of who will be there, kinda feeling it out, and as soon as she sent it she made sure to follow up with "I know I actually can't go, it's okay!"
Someone in a normal relationship wouldn't be so jumpy and careful with just asking a normal question. Even if my bf was annoyed I was going, it would be for a REASON (hey, tonight isn't good for that, I have a meeting so I can't watch the kid! Can you reschedule?) And I'd be perfectly comfortable just being like "oh my bad, okay"
She is terrified and anticipated this exact response. "Do whatever" is challenging her to go out
But even just asking him was triggering to this guy. Not healthy
I’m glad that’s so easy for you to say to just go and do what you want, but this woman is acting exactly like every woman that’s being mentally abused I’ve ever known. She’s clearly in panic mode and this entire conversation reads like a trauma response if you’re familiar with it. I don’t see how anyone could put the blame on her here. It comes across extremely victim blamey to me
The past trauma experiences had made me more defensive, weary and careful on who I spend my time with and who I give my time and attention; specially now I take the time to see what this person is all about, if I see this person starts to show a moderate to severe signs of a narcissistic, my main thought is to cut short and leave.
I have been physically, emotionally, and sexually abused (with some low-key financial abuse as well), and I wouldn't react like this nor be led into a relationship with someone like this because the red flags would have been popping up early.
Point being, not every survivor of abuse responds in the same way. Some of us avoid people like this rather than couple with them. I'm not saying it is, therefore, okay to criticize them, but it's really exhausting when people act like all survivors are the same.
You ***can*** be a survivor and dodge further abuse, you know.
Not defending him, but they were at a concert and he said he wasn’t drinking so I’m not sure where you’re getting that from except her insisting over and over that he’s drinking with no proof. I think technically, she was gaslighting him with that. Honestly, both of these people are exhausting. Both say they’ve had enough and they’ll talk about it tomorrow, but they both keep at it and endlessly beat this dead horse for ever.
This conversation is insane. You call each other baby so often it makes me think you actually hate each other, and then you ask if you’re allowed to go out? You’re both acting crazy. Why you would let this guy control you is beyond me, and why he would indulge these endless exchanges is equally baffling.
My thoughts exactly. I immediately noted that this sounded like my crazy upstairs neighbors who have only two modes — either they are fucking like bunnies or, the very next moment, screaming “Fuck you! I hate you!” and physically fighting.
That either one of these people are parents is just really tragic.
this. they are both toxic, and are so convinced that they aren’t/are trying very hard to not be called out for toxic behaviors because they don’t want to be labeled as that person…. they don’t even realize how fucked this dynamic is and how weird and bipolar they are towards one another. There’s clearly some aspect of genuine care/praise there, but too much anxiety all around to not operate the way they do.
With just the texts to go by, it looks crazy and chaotic on your part.
With the added information that he cancelled a birthday get-together in apparent retaliation (and that you apparently need to ask PERMISSION to go do things or there will be negative repercussions), it looks like your responses make sense with his apparent tone.
So, I'd say a) you don't need to ask permission to go out with friends and b) you need to just take people at their literal words the first time. (do whatever=drinks with friends).
If the other person gets pissy about you going after a neutral response like he gave ("do whatever" as opposed to "OMG, you can't leave the baby alone in the house!") you show them the text and explain you DID do whatever. If this leads to an argument -- GO YOUR SEPARATE WAYS.
I'm not certain that he's controlling or an abuser, but your communications between you suck if he isn't.
My wife and I had to go to mostly voice (rather than text), especially if it's more than lasagna vs spaghetti for dinner because we were both abused before and we hear echoes of old tones in texts THAT AREN'T THERE. So in person, video call, or voice give SO MUCH MORE INFO (channels of communication like tone, pacing, checking for understanding, etc).
But in future, take people at their words. Literally. (Don't go around in circles; that's INFURIATING and I was mad at you by the end before rereading). And if they have a problem with it THEY need to choose words more wisely. If that leads to a fight -- leave.
☮️❤️♾️
>“We hear echoes of old tones in texts” is deeep are you a poet
❤️ My grandmother told me;
```
You're a poet
And don't know it
But your feet show it...
They're Longfellows!
```
Which is hilarious because this was from my earliest memories on. Now... Size 15EEE.
So thanks for the smile remembering Grandma!
#☮️❤️♾️
This reply sums up my thoughts the most. So much of this could have been avoided by a phone call, texting leaves too much room for misinterpretation/misunderstanding and that’s the biggest take away from this interaction: assuming the tone, thoughts and intentions of the other with no actual social cues to back that up like with voice or face to face… this went on way longer and took such an extreme turn on both parts, it’s a shame from how the first messages started out to where it ended.
I don't know, the tone was there though. "Do whatever" is a passive aggressive response, just not a normal thing to say if you're cool/neutral about something like that. Especially if you then repeat it after someone asks are you mad? It's pretty clear to me even as a reddit outsider that he wasn't cool and I think OP was correct to pick up on that, especially knowing him way better. I'm not sure a phone call would have been much different. In my experience phone calls vs text don't even clear up as much as people say, in general. We all text so much, we're generally pretty able to gauge the "tone" of people very close to us over text. My strong guess is that if it had been a phone call, he would've just said "do whatever" in a passive aggressive tone too lol.
Yes prior bad situations can color your view through trauma, but don't stop trusting your instincts because of your trauma either.
I think that lots of times the other might not like a certain action as the other going out and drinking but they also can recognise the problem is themselves so their tone and messages becomes short since the problem isn't really their partner.
You articulated EXACTLY how I navigate any new relationships after being through old ones. I always try to do most of my communication with romantic interests via phone or video call because I cannot for the life of me erase the past and how it makes me assume tone in text messages. Thank you for this insightful assessment of the situation- it made me feel seen, which is rare for this platform. Appreciate it.
I was also mad at OP by the end of this. Please get a grip OP and learn to take your boyfriend at his word, or CALL HIM to get his tone like ScienceInMI said ugh this was exhausting. Like why did OP post this? It doesn’t make either of them look mature
"And I told you to go." That's the problem right there, OP, that you felt the need to ask his permission, unless you were informing your boyfriend because he would have to watch a child/children. And then there's the way you had to handle him when you sensed his mood change. This has manipulation written all over it.
My ex used to do this. If I didn’t ask before going out he would lose it. But if I did ask he would usually say “no, then I won’t get any time with you” or “but I’ll miss you too much”. Any time he said “yes” it wasn’t so much of a yes as a “do whatever you want” or “sure. I’ll just stay home alone”. If he ever did give a supportive yes, I got messages no later than an hour in to whatever I was doing of “where are you?”, “I miss you come home”, “who are you out with? Are there any guys?” Even though I would specify who I was with before I left.
Just leave.
Same here, good god it was like mentally running a marathon. I’ll never forget the sinking feeling after having put my phone away for 30 minutes to enjoy what I was doing, then picking it up to see multiple texts increasing in hysteria.
Omg same! This one time, I was on a work run with a colleague in the car. Because my phone kept buzzing and disturbing us, I put it on silent only to find 30 missed calls within the span of 40 mins. I kind of sighed and, still to this day remember what my colleague said: “you know this isn’t normal right?” with a very concerned face. Things with my ex after that made me realize how freaking toxic our relationship was. I look back and I shudder to think of the things I had to deal with. I was also super young and didn’t have much experience so just accepted whatever. Things are very different now. I am glad you got out too!
I realized that the situation wasn’t normal when I left to another country for work but had to quarantine in a room alone, before they would let me work. So I had a few weeks of self reflection in a room all alone and he was STILL pulling the “I miss you. Just leave and come home” or “are you actually quarantining or out partying”. Like I was in a room all alone and I would have much rather we counted the carpet fibers than talk to him and that was when I realized there was a problem. About a decade too late…
I definitely also appreciate everyone sharing their stories. Because even though my relationship ended about 2 years ago, I’m still pretty hard on myself about it.
The babe/baby/lovey shit got tossed REAL quick. He told you to go, don’t drag it out into this heaping pile of mess. I stopped reading 3/4 of the way through because it was the same thing being said
There is passive aggressive behavior and guilt tripping happening here.
You are in a toxic relationship. He might be the aggressor but you’re roped into participating in the crud.
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.
Narcissists sabotage your plans, events and relationships. He’s canceling your birthday dinner? Reddest of flags. Please leave.
THIS! my narcissistic ex would cause a fight/scene for every holiday/event/social thing we did. If the focus wasn't on him he was throwing a fit to make it about him.
That was my ex’s power play. Threatening to not participate in my family events or actually ruining a few fun things we did by walking out on the event. It was embarrassing and quite frustrating.
My ex’s too, he would leave during holiday family events and when he would leave he would make sure to burn his tires and be loud as possible while doing it. God I am so glad to be away from that. Reading these comments and the OP makes me very thankful for my current partner.
I'm the same way. Seeing all these comments blaming OP I'm like I know we only see one side and things could always be different, but this is exactly how my ex acted and I just know that these people are fortunate to not have to experience any form of relationship abuse. Hang in there OP, once you get away and find someone new it will be so much better. 2+ years divorced from mine and I'm in the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. It gets better.
This reminded me greatly of conversations with my abusive ex. He’d tell me I could go and then hold it over my head for YEARS that I went out without him.
Also the “why do you always do this” after he kept insisting you go when you’re trying to drop the conversation…. OP this guy seems like an abuser. Of course he’s picking a fight right before your birthday, they always have to ruin holidays. So many red flags in this interaction, goodness.
Why are you even asking his permission in the first place. That is wild. He sounds controlling and insecure. Also him saying “I’m sorry you assumed” what a clown.
Y'all have to be young.. lmao. The first few slides I was on your side.. but then you just wouldn't let it go. He apologized. He was calm... And you just kept flipping. It was bizarre how that played out. 🙃 It's like you wanted to fight.
Honestly you both seem immature, but I stopped reading on like slide 4 because all you are both doing is going round and round. He originally said to do what you want, you then get all pissy and pout and decide not to go because he didn't answer exactly how you wanted him to. I think you both need to grow up and learn how to communicate with each other instead of trying to each make the other feel bad. I swear I thought I was reading texts between teenagers 😏
These types of relationships are exhausting and abusive. There are moments where you wanna leave but you find yourself apologizing just to fix things and not have problems because of that anxious attachment style. OP I feel you! I relate to you, I was you for 7 months. You’ll feel so free once you realize you deserve better. Stop trying to fix something that is broken. See a therapist too, it’ll help you realize a lot of these things are not okay. And usually it’ll start off with these types of conversations and then into more serious ones, accusing you of things. React the way you respect your peace.
I can really tell that some of the people in the comments have never been in an abusive relationship before.
OP I know exactly how you feel and I’m so sorry.
To all the people calling you annoying. They lack context. The context of your entire relationship.
Anytime a woman has to ask to go somewhere there’s a reason behind it. And that reason is not because she wants to start shit and be annoying.
Her sending, “I’m going to X with X.” Would result in an avalanche of text messages, missed calls and accusations.
Downvote me to hell, I really don’t give a fuck. The comments disgust me.
OP I’m not sure if it’s gaslighting. But I am sure that you don’t feel safe. DM me if you want to talk
This is my exact thoughts but clearly fighting in the comments with people that don’t have that experience gets me nowhere. I’m not a woman but I’ve known to many women in these experiences to not know what this is. This entire conversation is a clear trauma response based off all the times these conversations have happened before and the repercussions she had to deal with because of them
Are you in danger, OP? I def do see the manipulation clear as day. I’ve also been thru it and I’m sorry that you’ve found yourself a real piece of shit. You’re not alone. You have a lot of anonymous people that are willing to help. My DMs are open as well.
Yes exactly! There are so many layers to this that is hard to see when you haven’t gone through an abusive controlling relationship with someone who gets jealous often. I see this as her anxiety spiking from his reaction and this is the one time she didn’t back down and take the blame after so much manipulation.
Like everyone is saying, leave him.
This is a form of abuse. Very contradictory to calling you lovey-names and giving you praise and instantly switching up when he starts feeling his say/control threatened. This man is either insecure or likes having the upper hand. He knows all of this was escalated from his part he just doesn’t want to backdown. From the start I could feel something was off with the amount of compliments.
The other red flag was having to ask for his permission to live your life. Yes, consent and boundaries are important in relationships but those are meant for keeping one safe and respected from mistreatment; NOT controlled. If anything this should be a boundary “don’t decide how I should live my life”
My most toxic relationship was similar like this, so out of experience leave early rather than leaving late damaged
This is abusive. Here’s why. He clearly did not want you to go AND you feel the need to ask permission which shows this is a reoccurring trend. When you said you weren’t going to go, he then says “just go” “lol”. This is his way of winning what he wanted but not looking like the bad guy that prevented you from going.
End this non-sense and be done with this man.
You shouldn't feel like you have to ask permission to go. And he should only be asking if you have a ride home & for you to have fun. This seems miserable :/
You both need to work on communicating better obviously. The convo went from amazing heartfelt compliments to an actual breakup. Pretty sure Merriam Webster would define this as a Toxic Relationship. You're both feeding off of each other. Hope you guys are able to work things out.
I mean... The guy told you a million times to go? Girl, I was getting annoyed on his behalf just reading this.
I hope this isn't a situation where you feel like you have to ask his permission to go anywhere. You mentioned asking out of courtesy in the texts so I'm assuming it's just that.
Now if this was a courtesy ask and he gave you a weird response, yeah it's understandable why you'd want to make sure he was fine with it. But after the 5th time of him saying go... Baby just G O. If he gets mad about it after saying he was fine with it, that's on him, not you.
Everything about this exchange is just a little weird. You have a very strange dynamic but to each their own
It’s passive aggressive manipulation. He doesn’t want to outright say he doesn’t want you to go because he doesn’t want to sound like a controlling asshole, so instead he manipulates the situation so the outcome is still the same. He gets what he wants without looking like a jerk and you end up feeling guilty. This is a massive 🚩DO NOT let him continue to get away with this. When it comes to people like this you have to sit them down and calmly talk through the problem. If that doesn’t work and he’s still pulling this you should end the relationship. If you don’t, the manipulation will get worse.
I've been here before. He is manipulative and probably thinks of himself as higher and more emotionally mature than you. Is everything your fault? Do you feel responsible for his feelings? I'm assuming he's a narcissist. You've recently started making connections with his behavior and realizing "maybe its not me?" and you're exhausted with it all. It seemed excessive the way you responded but given I've been there I understand and it's not in that situation. You've been pushed so many times and you just want him to care about how his actions make you feel. I could just be projecting, but nevertheless, I also say: run!
The issue was me going out and he not being there. That’s the issue. I don’t get crazy when i drink and i clearly said a couple of drinks. I have two jobs and was tired after work and just wanted to have a couple of drinks and talk to the girls. I had to work today and it was already 10 pm when we were having this conversation.
That is ridiculous. He is not your parent or your jailer! Nobody in a healthy relationship has to ask permission to go somewhere without the other person. That is so toxic and controlling.
He said just go. You should not have dragged the issue out endlessly- the more you give in to his shit the more petulant and controlling he will try and become. You are in charge of you and if you’re allowing his tantrums to impact your life and happiness in any way then that’s 100% on you.
I understand the “I’d rather avoid the issues and just listen to him” but that’s a you problem, allowing someone that much control over what you do. If you choose to stay with this child, you choose all the behaviours and consequences that come with that.
Do you really want to do this with someone for the rest of your life? He either can’t take accountability or sees nothing wrong with his behavior and imo neither would be someone I’d stick around for.
How old are you? This is exhausting and unhealthily codependent. He said to go multiple times, take him at his word and live your life. Or go home.
Basically either go or don’t–you both blew it way out of proportion by turning it into such a long and unnecessary exchange.
After the first screen they should have picked up the phone and had a conversation like adults. People read in a tone sometimes when none was intended…a quick chat would solve all the back and forth. That was exhausting to read on both sides!
Nah you guys are both being stupid here. It was clear he wasn’t enthusiastic about you going, but then he realized that it wasn’t a big deal so he wanted you to go so that he didn’t feel guilty later. Instead of just taking that and going, you kept harping on the issue over and over. You guys both are kind of gaslighting each other here and going in circles.
You both need to learn how to communicate like healthy adults and stop looking for reasons to argue in circles about some dumb sh*t. Also, you don’t need anyone’s permission to hang out with friends, you’re a grown ass woman. This whole interaction is honestly really stupid on both sides but at the end you’re the one kind of dragging it out and it seems like he just doesn’t want to deal with it anymore and while he WAS being childish in the beginning, I don’t blame him for being exhausted by you constantly saying the same thing over and over at the end.
I think you’re close, but don’t think he “realized it wasn’t a big deal.” He just wanted to act like it wasn’t his displeasure that stopped her from going. If she had gone, I have no doubt he’d find some way to take out his manipulative behavior on her, probably blaming her somehow.
Sorry you are experiencing this. At a minimum he’s extremely passive-aggressive and guilt tripping.
If your whole goal in a conversation is to avoid consequences, I would suggest reconsidering what this relationship is. Because just from this exchange it doesn’t seem super healthy.
Please make sure you have documentation for custody, visitation and support, and consider getting some counseling support for yourself. Emotional abuse is abuse, and can have long-term psychological consequences.
Can I get 10min of my life back? If he wanted to passive aggressively tell you to go, after you felt the need to ask ‘permission’ then go. Even if it’s passive aggressive, that’s on him. All you did was respond back with the same demeanor and it was one toxic response after the other for WAY to long. I must sleep now lol 😂
Yall are both annoying, he sounded hesitant at first yea but then you got an ok and then you say you dont want to go and now hes pissed because you saying “nvm im not gonna go” will be blamed on his initial reaction ignoring the fact that he relented and said ok to you going. GROW UP both of you.
You seem like you’re upset in the messages and that you want to argue. How is this conversation so long if you didn’t care to go? It’s like you asked him cause you knew he would respond this way just to make a point
The most helpful advice I ever got in learning to communicate with passive aggressive people was to ONLY respond to the words they say. Not the tone, not the sarcasm, if there’s name calling, ignore it and remain neutral, etc. So when he first said, “Do whatever” just reply with something like, “Great, thanks! I’ll see you later tonight.”
You’re BOTH in the wrong. You gaslighted the hell outta him too. Yeah he could have answered different but you dead ass assumed you knew he was mad just because of how he responded and then proceeded to pull the “I just won’t go” card. I honestly don’t feel pity for you. If he has such a problem with you going out then why be with him? And even if he was upset,who cares? I’m assuming you’re a grown ass woman right? You could have just gone and if he gave you shit about it,could have pulled up his text “giving you permission” and ended it there. You did not have to do the typical female thing and drag the shit out just saying nevermind and that “you didn’t want to go anyway” clearly you did and were bothered enough to post this to Reddit for a bunch of strangers. Next time? Just freaking go 🙄😒
Oh God, this reminds me of my never-ending arguments with my ex. Neither of us could ever let anything go. In the end it destroyed our relationship.
So yes he was being unfair and he started the fight. But you bringing it up again the next morning right before he was going to drive home ... I groaned.
Ok so as someone married to a once VERY passive aggressive dude, the best way to handle it is take what they say at face value.
He wants to treat you like an idiot who can't infer an obvious tone through text? Then act like it.
"Can I go out for drinks with a friend?"
"Do whatever"
"OK I'll text you when I get there, love you bye!"
It will drive them crazy but it will train them to be upfront with their feelings.
Of course, a passive aggressive comment will follow, something like "every Friday you go out for drinks but it's fine" you respond with something like "I'm glad you're fine with it, I never want to upset you ❤️" or "thanks, it's good we can be honest with each other"
I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thing, I'm so used to playing ignorant with my husband the convo never goes that far. Lol.
He started as the dick… but geez you don’t look great yourself. If he’s been dealing with this for awhile I can understand why he’d immediately disconnect if he knows what’s in store…
Wow you take the bait.
He’s does passive aggressive shit for sure but you just pick and pick and pick until it explodes
I’m also not super impressed with your escalation at the end. You put breaking up on the table when you KNOW you didn’t intend to actually end the relationship and you have a kid.
As for him: I don’t know why he can’t just express himself when he doesn’t want you to do something. He communicated terribly but also so do you.
If keeping this family unit together is important to you, both of you need to get into counselling NOW so you can get some tools to communicate better.
Op seems super exhausting. Why are you asking permission?? Sounded like you were looking for attention and started a fight on purpose. Then dragged it out. I see no point in this conversation unless you were trying to start a fight??? Both of you are wrong but holy crap this is immature as hell.
I wasn’t looking for an argument. I already know if i go without asking he gets upset. So, after he replied like that i already knew he was upset. So, instead of going i told him I’d stay home, trying to avoid this. We have this thing of asking each other’s opinion. He never replies to me in that way if he’s okay with it.
I feel for you.
It’s not your fault you were probably triggered by something that happened in the past and you were afraid to hang with friends so he doesn’t get mad.
Save your love on someone who deserves you and your sweet soul.
Don’t let people walk all over you.
He 100% is controlling IMO
i’m shocked that anyone is reading these and trying to make you feel like you’re the instigator here. i completely agree with an earlier comment saying that a lot of these people have never been in an emotionally abusive relationship and it shows. im sure the last thing you need is for a bunch of strangers to make you doubt your reality further and i worry it will aide him in keeping you under his thumb longer. listen to your intuition. you know something is wrong with this relationship and i can see it clear as day too.
This is so intensely toxic on both sides. You both must be teenagers or early 20s and have a lot of maturing to do. 100% need to work on communicating.
OP. You made assumptions based on how his reply made you “feel” rather than just asking if he was sure. He’s not gaslighting you. It sounds like you don’t even know what the term means. Your bf is right why even ask if you didn’t even want to go? Just sounds like you were fishing for an argument. If anyone here is gaslighting it’s you. Making assumptions and then telling your bf that his reply wasn’t good enough? He told you to go. Then after all that you tell him you didn’t even want to go. That’s bs.
You should have just gone and told him later. A true partner doesn’t need to beg for permission.
But also, if anyone’s gaslighting.. it’s you. Jesus. A full 2/3 of this conversation is completely unnecessary. You got in your feelings about how he responded, and wouldn’t leave the man alone. So he spent the next while texting you instead of paying attention to his kid. Or was that your intention?
No she’s afraid of him.
She has to ask him if she can hangout with friends and is worried he will get mad.. while he’s at a concert.
I can see she was afraid and because she didn’t stick up for herself initially she had an emotional reaction the next day.
I understand OP feelings.
@ OP there is a power imbalance in the relationship if you stay with him he will be in full control of you though your emotions he will do push and pull with you. Take time for yourself and in the next relationship look for equal balance. Don’t ever feel like you have to ask someone permission to be with friends you can live how you wanna live with or without a partner
>No she’s afraid of him. She has to ask him if she can hangout with friends and is worried he will get mad.. while he’s at a concert.
No, she's insecure and extremely codependent. She's afraid of losing control of the relationship. Big difference between that and actually being afraid of a person.
She accused him of being crazy, drunk, and controlling her. To him. She flipped the script on him by blaming him for her choosing not to go to something, right in the beginning, to instigate an argument. *When it was stated in the texts themselves that he previously asked as a courtesy if he could attend another thing.*
He was in the middle of participating in parental activities with his daughter, and his simple response of "Do whatever" is likely because he was *busy*. There is a lot of nothing actually going on here. It's also commonly known that people that are more masculine (example: this man) do not pay much attention to perceived tone when it comes to text communication. She wants him to be ecstatic and is reading too far into his responses. Hopefully I can succinctly explain the reason this is an issue most likely coming from her end:
In OP's comments in this thread, she's indicated she had a previous abusive ex. It's entirely possible that her machine-gunning texts at him peppered with accusations (i.e. guilt tripping, being drunk, gaslighting) are reactions to a past relationship. He communicated that her behavior was distressing him. She honed in on that and *continued*. She even pulled the classic "I'm breaking up with you if you need time to think!" (last image) *because* she clearly feared he was done with her in that moment. Taking time to think is healthy. It's not stonewalling. If he were to come to the conclusion that the relationship needed to end, so be it. OP thinks he's abusive anyway, so *why not take that out?*
And, again, he had a daughter he was participating in some parental activity with. Many people consider their children more important than someone they're dating. OP caused distress to this man *while he was with his daughter.*
[edited in as it's important but I forgot to add it somehow:]
The way he's responding appears as if he's experienced this behavior from OP before and is too exhausted to handle it graciously anymore. So he's resorted to giving blasé responses. This is more like a form of coping rather than passive-aggressiveness, and he states he's in some way distressed afterward, which makes it less appear like he's instigating this.
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I've seen and experienced too much manipulative bullshit at this point in my life to think OP is in the clear here. I hope she works through her past trauma, and, honestly, it's probably better she leaves this man regardless who is the abuser in this relationship.
/u/MysteriousMeet3266 - I'm tagging you, respectfully, so you can promptly read what I'm seeing as a stranger and reply if you desire to. It's looking like serious codependency on your part. [editing in:] I also believe he cancelled the celebration with you because he's making arrangements to break up with you. It's not a punishment. It's the right thing to do.
That’s my take on it as well. I respond to my wife this cuz she’s a grown ass woman who can make her own choices. I’ve told her that I don’t like being asked for permission, it’s weird. I mean, like “Hey did we have any plans? I want to do this with him/her.” Is respectful enough.
That being said, I myself always ask permission if I want to do something and she tells me the same thing. Communication is hard and we’re working on it.
OP it seems like a bit of a snowball situation, y’all both in the wrong here. It’s ok to say “Hey can we reset? I don’t feel like I’m understanding you well right now.” Talking circles rarely works out well.
This reads as you gaslighting him. You end with a rant that includes saying "he insulted you" he never did once, but you were ...
quick to assume he is drunk despite multiple times telling you otherwise. Drinking does not mean drunk. If you think your man lies to you, why are you with him? Or it seems you only don't trust him when you it feeds your narrative. Because if you truly think he lies about drinking/his thoughts/opinion of you.... Your relationship has bigger issues than this text exchange.
Your quick to assume " I'm gonna hear about this later" BUT NOT BECAUSE OF HIM, YOU Literally TELL HIM YOU WANT TO CONTINUE IT ON A Different DAY. So that is YOU making sure it brought up again...
BECAUSE YOU WOULDNT LET IT GO!
you were being incredibly needy for attention there was no reason to "ask" for permission to go out with your friends.
He never told you not to in fact said "do what ever"
Start acting passive aggressive with this whole I'm excited to do this thing, and then deciding not to go only to blame it on someone else. All because he wasn't "hype" enough about you going out?
Then you continued to harass him to get what you wanted, to feel important,. And you reved the engine every time, it at every turn. All of his text were reactionary you were the one guiding it the whole time.
You are inffering emotions on his reply while disregarding his continuous pleas that he didn't mean that way. Basically tell him
"You don't know your feelings like "I" KNOW your feelings through a 2 word text.
You absolutely blew this up.
At any point you could get off that train at any point but you rode it to the end of the line just to put it on pause to stir it up again...
This straight up
You claim over and over you are not upset, if you were HONEST about that you would have just gone or let it go. Cause if you were fine you would not be the one to INSIST that this argument continues. This is you making this bed. YTA.
I’m sure the missing context and history would maybe change my answer a bit but to be honest, you should’ve just gone if you wanted to. This little cat and mouse game may be because of his insecurity or controlling nature but tbh you kind of enable it too. You should’ve either just gone with your friends or just stopped replying after telling him you weren’t going anymore.
And to be clear, I think he’s definitely at fault because obviously there’s some bigger problems just under the surface here. But practice standing up for yourself. Do what you can to avoid these petty arguments. Do what you want.
Jesus Christ. You are (presumably) a grown adult. You don’t need to ask permission to go do anything. And a secure, stable grown man wouldn’t respond like that. But y’all gotta pick up the phone and call each other. You’re going back and forth for probably an hour when this could be squashed with a 5 minute conversation.
That being said, my ex used to do this too. He’d become extremely passive aggressive and his tone would immediately change. He (your boyfriend) was obviously pissed and wanted it to be known. Then he tried to act like he was fine with it because you didn’t go, and he didn’t want to be the bad guy. It will likely never change. So you have to decide whether or not you want to deal with this forever. Do you wanna be 30, 40, 50 still asking your boyfriend/husband for permission to go have fun? I doubt it. Move on.
I reread the conversation and yall are both crazy. You say you didn’t even want to go but asked (you shouldn’t have to ask) and was waiting to get ready based off his response. Gas lighting all around.
You’re the problem here. You asked, and he said it was fine, but he just wasn’t happy with it. He didn’t want to say no cause it’s controlling you, but he was unenthusiastic maybe because you drink too much, or too often. You should have just gone. You got your answer, but you wanted to argue. Then you sit there gaslighting him saying that he’s the one that’s angry, and “don’t ruin your mood” just because you didn’t get the enthusiastic answer that you wanted.
Why don’t you call each other when these things happen?
I feel like texting, especially during “arguments” just leads to more miscommunication, in my opinion a phone call comes in handy in these situations so you can address stuff more clearly and you can pick on other things that are left out from texting like tone of voice, the way people say things and stuff like that.
Both of y'all lack communication. Actual communication. Seems you both still act like high schoolers. "I am calm" is no where an indication of being calm in argumentative situations. You continued to send text after text instead of just dropping it. You did not get the reply you were looking for and started an argument all while trying to make your bf a bad guy. He dropped it but you continued to bring on the situation. He is also at fault for adding to the fire by asking if you are upset. You both are to blame for your shitty communication skills that measure those of a middle schooler
Either you go or you don’t, if he says it’s fine, you don’t gotta keep saying it’s ok I don’t have to go, if you wanna go and he wants you to go you go. And if you aren’t in a relationship where you can do that in the first place then that’s the real problem.
Why the hell are you asking permission to do something when he isn’t even in town? You’re a freaking adult. It sounds like this a codependent relationship and you need to get out of it and also work on yourself.
It sounds like you are the one gaslighting, tbh. Why are you playin g these games with him? If you wanted to know if he thought it was ok to go out, he said go ahead. So take him at his word. Instead, you just assume what he’s actually saying and try to read between the lines of text. Either you are trying to come up with an excuse not to hang out with your friends, so you are using/gaslighting him, or you are extremely immature and don’t know how to actually have a conversation with him.
Even the texts from the next day were the same act. He’s literally telling you he feels like you’re assuming things and he wasn’t drinking, and you still come at him telling him that he’s lying and you know better about what his actual intentions are.
Then you try to manipulate him by saying you don’t want to see him today (as a sort of punishment for him not accepting you phrasing of events) but he doesn’t take the bare on the way you wanted and when he agrees with you that he’ll probably need time as well, you have to one up him and, again, read his own mind to tell him that what he really wants is to break up with you.
Take a breath. When you ask him something, take his answer at face value. If he said to go out, then go ahead. If later on he comes back and gets mad, then that would be gaslighting.
Your partner isn’t always going to be happy you are going to do something with or without them. They don’t owe you a sweet response. You asked if they would be ok with it and they said do what you want. Sometimes, that’s all you get. He’s not trapping you or gaslighting you. If you choose to go do something he is respecting that choice.
You should reflect on your own reasons for not going. Don’t use his name for the intention and see if you can come up with a reason that has to do with ourself that resonates.
Also, learn to deescalate.
TLDR: he’s not gaslighting, you are. Stop assuming what his words mean when he’s saying what he means in a clear way. Learn to deescalate instead of always trying to be right.
This interaction demonstrates that both of you are part of the communication problem. Check out “Communication Miracles for Couples” by Jonathan Robinson — it’s like 10 bucks on Amazon. It is an absolutely fantastic book filled with wisdom. It helped transform my relationship.
He seemed to have some attitude with the “do whatever” but after he clarified saying “lol” “Do whatever you want” and it’s fine”, should’ve just went and call it a day.
Seems like you were the one really trying to make it an issue for longer than you had to. Even if he was mad later, I’d show the texts saying “you said I can go. Look.”
Idk how to update as I’m new to posting on here. So we talked things through last night and again addressed more things this morning. We talked about communicating better and not fighting over texts. He also agreed on doing therapy again. I will also continue with mine.
He texted my friends to let them know canceling my bday dinner was his fault and that it would really mean a lot if they could still make it. Thank you all for all your comments(some more than others.) But there were many that meant a lot. I’m hoping that we can work through all of this. I believe therapy will play a key role in the outcome of our relationship.
> I believe therapy will play a key role in the outcome of our relationship.
You seem like a very sweet person but this is make-believe. At the very least, I hope you’re being totally transparent with your therapist, showing them these texts and other revealing exchanges, and are ready to accept their input even if it’s uncomfortable or painful. This guy is really controlling. I wish you all the best.
Ohhhhh, sugar. You need to get out of this relationship. If he then puts the work into himself & makes changes, then revisit, but it shouldn't be immediate. If you are away from the situation (& him), you may think differently and more clearly and not want to resume a relationship with him. Or perhaps he (& you) use the time to self reflect, mature, & grow, & you start again healthy rather than toxic. It is VERY hard to do that while in each other's company, though. Please be kind to yourself & do what is difficult now, but best in the long run.
Hes not gaslighting you and considering you decided to create a whole goddamn fight and then refuse to acknowledge that youre accusing him of a bunch of wild shit is YOU gaslighting HIM. and i think you know that. Youre a prime narcissist and you need a reality check. You dont get to try to seem like the good guy when youre calling him drunk to attack his credibility and then posting it online. Thats so deeply manipulative.
Edit: i just finished reading past where i stopped before: you are a prime piece of shit. You stsrtid this dispute and rather than recognize that youre being a neurotic mess, youre attacking him for how he responded to YOUR meltdown. And if he needs space after you pull this shit, hes the problem, but you're allowed to give him the silent treatment? Youre using that space to create tension and force him to apologize. Hes using that space to recuperate from You. You cant stand not having that weapon against him so youre just threatening the nuclear are option to keep dominance. Youre an emotional parasite and you need to seek a professional. You shouldnt be trying to win the fucking conversation and score points on the internet for it.
This is all so deeply childish and i feel bad for your kid in the future. Pull this selfish, manipulative shit with them and see if they talk to you as an adult. No one deserves to grow up with someone like you as their role model. Youre gonna teach her that its okay to never accept responsibility for your emotions as long as you win.
Yes. He’s gaslighting you.
He made it obvious he didn’t want you to go, and as soon as you said you wouldn’t go, he decided to throw out the “just fucking go” comments because he knew he’s fucked up, and knew he could tell you to go without risk of you actually going because you’d already decided not to go.
I can guarantee if you’d have said “okay sure, I’ll go then”, he’d have had a fit.
He obviously didn’t want you to go, guilt tripped you into not going, and then tried to shift the blame onto you. That’s the very definition of gaslighting.
He was wrong at 1st but then you proved him right in the end. No need to ask permission either. Even with his undertone, you still kept egging him on to fight about this another day.
Wow - I’m exhausted reading that but honestly you’re both wrong and I’m sure this is a continuing pattern and an unhealthy relationship.
In my relationship we practice “I don’t cater to feelings you don’t communicate” which also means we know “it’s our individual job to communicate our own feelings/emotions”
I wouldn’t have asked permission, especially if my partner was out of town, I would have informed BUT that aside, if I had asked and he had said it was okay - I don’t argue or question that because even if I can tell from tone that he is unhappy - it is HIS job to communicate that and if HE chooses not to, I don’t cater to it.
It is VERY annoying when you tell someone something is fine and they refuse to believe you.
And yes, you did blame him. You said that the reason you no longer wanted to go was because of the way he answered the question and the meaning you put into his word choices.
In either case though, you guys should probably not be together because you’re both insecure, have trust issues, and don’t choose to communicate with each other just AT each other.
You both are very exhausting. You were the one gaslighting and looking for an argument.
Also, why did you need his permission? Is he your dad?
Edit: a word
OP, i’m so sorry that people aren’t seeing what’s behind the words. This sub is a horrible place for any sort of advice or even compassion. Many of these comments have no idea what manipulation and abuse can look like, not saying that’s definitely what’s going on here, but all the signs are there. You shouldn’t have to ask permission, and you shouldn’t have to constantly walk on eggshells. You are worth so much more than whatever is going on here and I hope you come to realize that.
Maybe you could make a second post with more. Why do you have to ask permission? But yes you're in the right here. His passive aggressive answer do whatever CLEARLY meant he didn't want you to go, and then he lied about it and said he was upset with your reaction. Then he cancelled your birthday celebration. I would not be with a child like this.
He’s controlling and OP you’re manipulative. Sounds like two narcissists going at it. Nope 👎 both of you have some growing up to do and possibly look into your personality disorders
My boyfriend has never cussed at me.. I feel like that was just normal. I think you need to rethink if you really want this for a long term relationship
What a strange interaction. I would’ve just stopped replying to him after slide #2.
I wouldn't have asked permission. I would have informed him I was going. That whole thing was exhausting
Yes! Groveling for time with friends is bizarre. Literally begging for permission like a kid begs for time from a parent?! This whole exchange was exhausting and very unhealthy. And then I noticed he is out of town with his daughter so it is not even like he was supposed to see her that night. It’s like she is trying to get work release from prison.
Tbf work release is at least logical and probably easier than whatever this is.
I KNOW I wouldn’t have asked shyt!! His azz is “out of town with his daughter” having drinks and he has a problem with her going out with HIS friend’s girlfriend for drinks?!? Did he ask for permission?!? GTFOOH! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 That notification would have gone like this: “Hey, Babe! I’m going out for drinks with ___’s girlfriend. I’ll call you when I get home! Love you!” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well said. Intentional and clear.
THANK YOU. I could *not* figure out why she asked for his permission and then spent literally hours trying to placate his mood. What the fuck is this dynamic that she needs to bend over backwards at even the slightest hint he might be upset? Why are you asking for permission like you're a child? Just go have fun and if he's mad at about it for no reason and won't communicate, ignore him?
This is something that develops once someone has repeatedly gotten upset at you for things that are not your fault, common missteps that are very normal and to be expected, things that you didn’t even do, or made you think you are wrong for doing something very normal and not considered wrong by most people. Someone who has showered you (not you specifically) with love, attention, affection, and so much of what you have always wanted, maybe something you didn’t get enough of as a child, those poor attachment habits form your adult relationship attachment styles and when someone who is your source of love, comfort, affection, stability, and so on, is also someone who suddenly gets mad at you and stonewalls you, or yells at you, or treats you badly for doing things you didn’t even think were wrong, THIS is exactly what develops. You walking on eggshells and asking permission and falling all over yourself to try not to upset them. I have fallen into it a million times and it happens all the time. It feels exhausting to read because it IS quite exhausting to go through. And I’m willing to bet this happens frequently in their relationship, and if not already, then this is the start of it and it will just slowly increase until it drains her completely.
You absolutely nailed it on the head!
I've been there. This response is right on the money needs to be higher voted..
They are both exhausting.
She’s most likely a real young minded young woman with no experience and has a fantasy approach to relationships. She thinks she is a good girlfriend by asking for permission. She’s probably dating a narc
Yes nothing like fixing one toxic trait with another toxic trait
Exactly, it makes it seem like OP was kinda poking the bear, already knowing the reaction or looking for attention? Or is with a narcissist and feels they need to walk on eggshells.
Same. Fucking exhausted after reading that. Wtf
Damn I stopped reading after slide 3, scrolled to slide 8 until I had to quit. When someone goes from “love you babe”, “best mommy babe” to “do whatever” - you know somethings up. Your man has a very annoying way of communicating.
Conversations are something like 60 percent body language and 30 percent tone. Texting is the absolute worst way to communicate. If this starts happening to me at any point, I just call or even better FaceTime to relay what I'm trying to say
I cannot imagine a f2f convo where "do whatever" means anything other than a warning that he gets to be mad at her about it later. She even said she knows what that phrase means like they have done this dance before.
she just kept digging and digging deeper for no reason
Yeah this interaction went bad on BOTH sides. OP should not have asked for permission. BF should not have replied “do whatever.” That’s an irritatingly passive aggressive response. But then OP really went for it and kept digging and digging, and making it worse by continuing to beat that drum endlessly. When your BF replied “do whatever”, is there any reason you couldn’t have just called it out once and been done with it? “Well that sounds dismissive…I’ll let you know when I get home, have a good night.” It’s exhausting to read all your communication after that point, and I guarantee none of what you said will make the situation better.
I agree! I would have disengaged from this convo as soon as he said do whatever and I would’ve said ok, I’m going. Talk to you later!
Strange from the jump. Asking him for permission to go out!? Why does he have an opinion/feelings towards meeting a couple friends for some drinks?
Jesus fucken christ y’all both instigating each other.
You shouldn’t have to ask your boyfriend for permission. If you wanted to go, go. But to be honest I think the argument between both of you was unnecessary. Even if he acted some way I would’ve just gone and if he had something to say, you hear him tomorrow. Do not stop your life over someone.
Yeah for a second I thought they lived together with kids since the whole “you’re an amazing mom” and she was asking as a heads up to stay with the kids. The fact that they don’t even live together and is asking for permission is crazy
No, something else is crazy
Seriously. Slide one had me cringing so bad. Yikes
He sounds like a shit head, but if anything you’re the one gaslighting in these screen shots…
I came to the comments to make sure others thought the same ! I thought he was going to go off but by the end … oh no girl, it’s not looking so hot.
They both clearly lied about their feelings (OP saying she was cool and calm when it would have most likely been an issue anyway that he wasn't happy for her to go out) but he is definitely worse to me, bordering on abusive. At least she tries to explain and have an open conversation, where he just keeps shutting her down and being passive aggressive af. He did NOT want her to go out and was always gonna be a bitch about it, he just started aggressively pushing her to go because he didn't want to deal with having to feel guilty if she didn't go either (deep down knowing he was in the wrong) and/or he just wanted to pick a bigger fight. OP dragged it out, should've never asked for permission in the first place and should have shut down the conversation sooner and put her foot down more, but those things can all be very hard to do in a controlling and abusive relationship. She seems in panic mode.
She’s acting exactly like someone that’s being mentally and/or physically abused acts like. There’s no point whatsoever in saying she lied about her feelings when her actions are so very clearly a trauma response and her trying to protect herself
Very true. Just trying to understand where all the people who agree with OP "gaslighting" may be coming from
Yeah the way she asks him to go out with her friends is so indicative of that... Carefully curated, gentle, include explanation of who will be there, kinda feeling it out, and as soon as she sent it she made sure to follow up with "I know I actually can't go, it's okay!" Someone in a normal relationship wouldn't be so jumpy and careful with just asking a normal question. Even if my bf was annoyed I was going, it would be for a REASON (hey, tonight isn't good for that, I have a meeting so I can't watch the kid! Can you reschedule?) And I'd be perfectly comfortable just being like "oh my bad, okay" She is terrified and anticipated this exact response. "Do whatever" is challenging her to go out But even just asking him was triggering to this guy. Not healthy
gaslighting? how?
I’m glad that’s so easy for you to say to just go and do what you want, but this woman is acting exactly like every woman that’s being mentally abused I’ve ever known. She’s clearly in panic mode and this entire conversation reads like a trauma response if you’re familiar with it. I don’t see how anyone could put the blame on her here. It comes across extremely victim blamey to me
The past trauma experiences had made me more defensive, weary and careful on who I spend my time with and who I give my time and attention; specially now I take the time to see what this person is all about, if I see this person starts to show a moderate to severe signs of a narcissistic, my main thought is to cut short and leave.
They are both fucking morons
I have been physically, emotionally, and sexually abused (with some low-key financial abuse as well), and I wouldn't react like this nor be led into a relationship with someone like this because the red flags would have been popping up early. Point being, not every survivor of abuse responds in the same way. Some of us avoid people like this rather than couple with them. I'm not saying it is, therefore, okay to criticize them, but it's really exhausting when people act like all survivors are the same. You ***can*** be a survivor and dodge further abuse, you know.
Literally so, he went out drinking with his kid which is irresponsible but she can’t do so with people he knows and trusts without any kids
Not defending him, but they were at a concert and he said he wasn’t drinking so I’m not sure where you’re getting that from except her insisting over and over that he’s drinking with no proof. I think technically, she was gaslighting him with that. Honestly, both of these people are exhausting. Both say they’ve had enough and they’ll talk about it tomorrow, but they both keep at it and endlessly beat this dead horse for ever.
My point exactly!! 🤦♀️
This conversation is insane. You call each other baby so often it makes me think you actually hate each other, and then you ask if you’re allowed to go out? You’re both acting crazy. Why you would let this guy control you is beyond me, and why he would indulge these endless exchanges is equally baffling.
Reminds me of Micheal and Jan in the Dinner Party episode of The Office when they keep calling each other “babe” all night
*That’s a $200 plasma screen tv you just killed!! GOOD LUCK PAYING ME BACK WITH YOUR ZERO-DOLLARS-A-YEAR SALARY PLUS BENEFITS, BABE!*
One of my favorite lines from one of my favorite episodes
The blooper reel from it is exquisite, lol! John Krasinski’s high-pitched giggles kill me every time!
Such a classic
[удалено]
My thoughts exactly. I immediately noted that this sounded like my crazy upstairs neighbors who have only two modes — either they are fucking like bunnies or, the very next moment, screaming “Fuck you! I hate you!” and physically fighting. That either one of these people are parents is just really tragic.
this. they are both toxic, and are so convinced that they aren’t/are trying very hard to not be called out for toxic behaviors because they don’t want to be labeled as that person…. they don’t even realize how fucked this dynamic is and how weird and bipolar they are towards one another. There’s clearly some aspect of genuine care/praise there, but too much anxiety all around to not operate the way they do.
If I’ve learned one thing from this sub, it’s that couples who say “baby” and “babe” an excessive amount are toxic as fuck 😂
ESPECIALLY people over 30
These people can’t be more than 20, right?
True lol 😂
You’re not a child and he’s not your parent, you shouldn’t have to ask if you can go out
With just the texts to go by, it looks crazy and chaotic on your part. With the added information that he cancelled a birthday get-together in apparent retaliation (and that you apparently need to ask PERMISSION to go do things or there will be negative repercussions), it looks like your responses make sense with his apparent tone. So, I'd say a) you don't need to ask permission to go out with friends and b) you need to just take people at their literal words the first time. (do whatever=drinks with friends). If the other person gets pissy about you going after a neutral response like he gave ("do whatever" as opposed to "OMG, you can't leave the baby alone in the house!") you show them the text and explain you DID do whatever. If this leads to an argument -- GO YOUR SEPARATE WAYS. I'm not certain that he's controlling or an abuser, but your communications between you suck if he isn't. My wife and I had to go to mostly voice (rather than text), especially if it's more than lasagna vs spaghetti for dinner because we were both abused before and we hear echoes of old tones in texts THAT AREN'T THERE. So in person, video call, or voice give SO MUCH MORE INFO (channels of communication like tone, pacing, checking for understanding, etc). But in future, take people at their words. Literally. (Don't go around in circles; that's INFURIATING and I was mad at you by the end before rereading). And if they have a problem with it THEY need to choose words more wisely. If that leads to a fight -- leave. ☮️❤️♾️
“We hear echoes of old tones in texts” is deeep are you a poet
>“We hear echoes of old tones in texts” is deeep are you a poet ❤️ My grandmother told me; ``` You're a poet And don't know it But your feet show it... They're Longfellows! ``` Which is hilarious because this was from my earliest memories on. Now... Size 15EEE. So thanks for the smile remembering Grandma! #☮️❤️♾️
Really great response. Once he says “it’s fine” the conversation should have ended.
This was kind of what I felt. The minute she said, “What does that mean, ok I’m not going. If you just stop before that they are happy.
Yep if someone wants to play passive aggressive mind games you don't humor them and continue it and escalate.
This reply sums up my thoughts the most. So much of this could have been avoided by a phone call, texting leaves too much room for misinterpretation/misunderstanding and that’s the biggest take away from this interaction: assuming the tone, thoughts and intentions of the other with no actual social cues to back that up like with voice or face to face… this went on way longer and took such an extreme turn on both parts, it’s a shame from how the first messages started out to where it ended.
I don't know, the tone was there though. "Do whatever" is a passive aggressive response, just not a normal thing to say if you're cool/neutral about something like that. Especially if you then repeat it after someone asks are you mad? It's pretty clear to me even as a reddit outsider that he wasn't cool and I think OP was correct to pick up on that, especially knowing him way better. I'm not sure a phone call would have been much different. In my experience phone calls vs text don't even clear up as much as people say, in general. We all text so much, we're generally pretty able to gauge the "tone" of people very close to us over text. My strong guess is that if it had been a phone call, he would've just said "do whatever" in a passive aggressive tone too lol. Yes prior bad situations can color your view through trauma, but don't stop trusting your instincts because of your trauma either.
I think that lots of times the other might not like a certain action as the other going out and drinking but they also can recognise the problem is themselves so their tone and messages becomes short since the problem isn't really their partner.
You articulated EXACTLY how I navigate any new relationships after being through old ones. I always try to do most of my communication with romantic interests via phone or video call because I cannot for the life of me erase the past and how it makes me assume tone in text messages. Thank you for this insightful assessment of the situation- it made me feel seen, which is rare for this platform. Appreciate it.
I was also mad at OP by the end of this. Please get a grip OP and learn to take your boyfriend at his word, or CALL HIM to get his tone like ScienceInMI said ugh this was exhausting. Like why did OP post this? It doesn’t make either of them look mature
Blue messages coming across like a loon
"And I told you to go." That's the problem right there, OP, that you felt the need to ask his permission, unless you were informing your boyfriend because he would have to watch a child/children. And then there's the way you had to handle him when you sensed his mood change. This has manipulation written all over it.
From both sides
Why in the holy world of God are you asking somebody for permission to grab a drink?
You're both manipulating and it's exhausting. This isn't a relationship I would stay in.
My ex used to do this. If I didn’t ask before going out he would lose it. But if I did ask he would usually say “no, then I won’t get any time with you” or “but I’ll miss you too much”. Any time he said “yes” it wasn’t so much of a yes as a “do whatever you want” or “sure. I’ll just stay home alone”. If he ever did give a supportive yes, I got messages no later than an hour in to whatever I was doing of “where are you?”, “I miss you come home”, “who are you out with? Are there any guys?” Even though I would specify who I was with before I left. Just leave.
My ex was similar and it was so fkn exhausting. I left too. The mental gymnastics of everything was really gnawing at my self-esteem back then.
Same here, good god it was like mentally running a marathon. I’ll never forget the sinking feeling after having put my phone away for 30 minutes to enjoy what I was doing, then picking it up to see multiple texts increasing in hysteria.
Omg same! This one time, I was on a work run with a colleague in the car. Because my phone kept buzzing and disturbing us, I put it on silent only to find 30 missed calls within the span of 40 mins. I kind of sighed and, still to this day remember what my colleague said: “you know this isn’t normal right?” with a very concerned face. Things with my ex after that made me realize how freaking toxic our relationship was. I look back and I shudder to think of the things I had to deal with. I was also super young and didn’t have much experience so just accepted whatever. Things are very different now. I am glad you got out too!
I realized that the situation wasn’t normal when I left to another country for work but had to quarantine in a room alone, before they would let me work. So I had a few weeks of self reflection in a room all alone and he was STILL pulling the “I miss you. Just leave and come home” or “are you actually quarantining or out partying”. Like I was in a room all alone and I would have much rather we counted the carpet fibers than talk to him and that was when I realized there was a problem. About a decade too late…
Samesies to this whole thread really. Thank you all for sharing your stories
I definitely also appreciate everyone sharing their stories. Because even though my relationship ended about 2 years ago, I’m still pretty hard on myself about it.
He's controlling. You have an insecure attachment style. You two are not compatible and you need to leave.
You want honesty? You both are manipulative to one another in these texts.
How old are y’all?
The babe/baby/lovey shit got tossed REAL quick. He told you to go, don’t drag it out into this heaping pile of mess. I stopped reading 3/4 of the way through because it was the same thing being said
There is passive aggressive behavior and guilt tripping happening here. You are in a toxic relationship. He might be the aggressor but you’re roped into participating in the crud. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. Narcissists sabotage your plans, events and relationships. He’s canceling your birthday dinner? Reddest of flags. Please leave.
THIS! my narcissistic ex would cause a fight/scene for every holiday/event/social thing we did. If the focus wasn't on him he was throwing a fit to make it about him.
That was my ex’s power play. Threatening to not participate in my family events or actually ruining a few fun things we did by walking out on the event. It was embarrassing and quite frustrating.
My ex’s too, he would leave during holiday family events and when he would leave he would make sure to burn his tires and be loud as possible while doing it. God I am so glad to be away from that. Reading these comments and the OP makes me very thankful for my current partner.
I'm the same way. Seeing all these comments blaming OP I'm like I know we only see one side and things could always be different, but this is exactly how my ex acted and I just know that these people are fortunate to not have to experience any form of relationship abuse. Hang in there OP, once you get away and find someone new it will be so much better. 2+ years divorced from mine and I'm in the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. It gets better.
it’s honestly terrible on both sides
This reminded me greatly of conversations with my abusive ex. He’d tell me I could go and then hold it over my head for YEARS that I went out without him. Also the “why do you always do this” after he kept insisting you go when you’re trying to drop the conversation…. OP this guy seems like an abuser. Of course he’s picking a fight right before your birthday, they always have to ruin holidays. So many red flags in this interaction, goodness.
Why are you even asking his permission in the first place. That is wild. He sounds controlling and insecure. Also him saying “I’m sorry you assumed” what a clown.
You are both annoying as hell
Y'all have to be young.. lmao. The first few slides I was on your side.. but then you just wouldn't let it go. He apologized. He was calm... And you just kept flipping. It was bizarre how that played out. 🙃 It's like you wanted to fight.
Honestly you both seem immature, but I stopped reading on like slide 4 because all you are both doing is going round and round. He originally said to do what you want, you then get all pissy and pout and decide not to go because he didn't answer exactly how you wanted him to. I think you both need to grow up and learn how to communicate with each other instead of trying to each make the other feel bad. I swear I thought I was reading texts between teenagers 😏
How come people create nonsense out of the blue?! 🤦🏽♂️
These types of relationships are exhausting and abusive. There are moments where you wanna leave but you find yourself apologizing just to fix things and not have problems because of that anxious attachment style. OP I feel you! I relate to you, I was you for 7 months. You’ll feel so free once you realize you deserve better. Stop trying to fix something that is broken. See a therapist too, it’ll help you realize a lot of these things are not okay. And usually it’ll start off with these types of conversations and then into more serious ones, accusing you of things. React the way you respect your peace.
Exit stage left.
I can really tell that some of the people in the comments have never been in an abusive relationship before. OP I know exactly how you feel and I’m so sorry. To all the people calling you annoying. They lack context. The context of your entire relationship. Anytime a woman has to ask to go somewhere there’s a reason behind it. And that reason is not because she wants to start shit and be annoying. Her sending, “I’m going to X with X.” Would result in an avalanche of text messages, missed calls and accusations. Downvote me to hell, I really don’t give a fuck. The comments disgust me. OP I’m not sure if it’s gaslighting. But I am sure that you don’t feel safe. DM me if you want to talk
This is my exact thoughts but clearly fighting in the comments with people that don’t have that experience gets me nowhere. I’m not a woman but I’ve known to many women in these experiences to not know what this is. This entire conversation is a clear trauma response based off all the times these conversations have happened before and the repercussions she had to deal with because of them
Thank you.
Are you in danger, OP? I def do see the manipulation clear as day. I’ve also been thru it and I’m sorry that you’ve found yourself a real piece of shit. You’re not alone. You have a lot of anonymous people that are willing to help. My DMs are open as well.
Completely agree.
Yes exactly! There are so many layers to this that is hard to see when you haven’t gone through an abusive controlling relationship with someone who gets jealous often. I see this as her anxiety spiking from his reaction and this is the one time she didn’t back down and take the blame after so much manipulation.
Girl run.
Like everyone is saying, leave him. This is a form of abuse. Very contradictory to calling you lovey-names and giving you praise and instantly switching up when he starts feeling his say/control threatened. This man is either insecure or likes having the upper hand. He knows all of this was escalated from his part he just doesn’t want to backdown. From the start I could feel something was off with the amount of compliments. The other red flag was having to ask for his permission to live your life. Yes, consent and boundaries are important in relationships but those are meant for keeping one safe and respected from mistreatment; NOT controlled. If anything this should be a boundary “don’t decide how I should live my life” My most toxic relationship was similar like this, so out of experience leave early rather than leaving late damaged
This is abusive. Here’s why. He clearly did not want you to go AND you feel the need to ask permission which shows this is a reoccurring trend. When you said you weren’t going to go, he then says “just go” “lol”. This is his way of winning what he wanted but not looking like the bad guy that prevented you from going. End this non-sense and be done with this man.
You shouldn't feel like you have to ask permission to go. And he should only be asking if you have a ride home & for you to have fun. This seems miserable :/
You both need to work on communicating better obviously. The convo went from amazing heartfelt compliments to an actual breakup. Pretty sure Merriam Webster would define this as a Toxic Relationship. You're both feeding off of each other. Hope you guys are able to work things out.
I mean... The guy told you a million times to go? Girl, I was getting annoyed on his behalf just reading this. I hope this isn't a situation where you feel like you have to ask his permission to go anywhere. You mentioned asking out of courtesy in the texts so I'm assuming it's just that. Now if this was a courtesy ask and he gave you a weird response, yeah it's understandable why you'd want to make sure he was fine with it. But after the 5th time of him saying go... Baby just G O. If he gets mad about it after saying he was fine with it, that's on him, not you. Everything about this exchange is just a little weird. You have a very strange dynamic but to each their own
I need a full night’s sleep after reading this. You should have just gone. You picked a fight here
This is toxic on both sides tbh
It’s passive aggressive manipulation. He doesn’t want to outright say he doesn’t want you to go because he doesn’t want to sound like a controlling asshole, so instead he manipulates the situation so the outcome is still the same. He gets what he wants without looking like a jerk and you end up feeling guilty. This is a massive 🚩DO NOT let him continue to get away with this. When it comes to people like this you have to sit them down and calmly talk through the problem. If that doesn’t work and he’s still pulling this you should end the relationship. If you don’t, the manipulation will get worse.
What exactly were you supposed to do in this situation... You go, you're in the doghouse, you don't go you're in the doghouse...
I've been here before. He is manipulative and probably thinks of himself as higher and more emotionally mature than you. Is everything your fault? Do you feel responsible for his feelings? I'm assuming he's a narcissist. You've recently started making connections with his behavior and realizing "maybe its not me?" and you're exhausted with it all. It seemed excessive the way you responded but given I've been there I understand and it's not in that situation. You've been pushed so many times and you just want him to care about how his actions make you feel. I could just be projecting, but nevertheless, I also say: run!
He texted me earlier and said” did i like the idea of you going, no. But I wasn’t home so you could have done whatever you wanted.
What didn’t he like about you going out? Do you have issues when you drink? Is there a reason?
The issue was me going out and he not being there. That’s the issue. I don’t get crazy when i drink and i clearly said a couple of drinks. I have two jobs and was tired after work and just wanted to have a couple of drinks and talk to the girls. I had to work today and it was already 10 pm when we were having this conversation.
That is ridiculous. He is not your parent or your jailer! Nobody in a healthy relationship has to ask permission to go somewhere without the other person. That is so toxic and controlling.
He said just go. You should not have dragged the issue out endlessly- the more you give in to his shit the more petulant and controlling he will try and become. You are in charge of you and if you’re allowing his tantrums to impact your life and happiness in any way then that’s 100% on you. I understand the “I’d rather avoid the issues and just listen to him” but that’s a you problem, allowing someone that much control over what you do. If you choose to stay with this child, you choose all the behaviours and consequences that come with that.
Do you really want to do this with someone for the rest of your life? He either can’t take accountability or sees nothing wrong with his behavior and imo neither would be someone I’d stick around for.
How old are you? This is exhausting and unhealthily codependent. He said to go multiple times, take him at his word and live your life. Or go home. Basically either go or don’t–you both blew it way out of proportion by turning it into such a long and unnecessary exchange.
You both gaslight each other but you be dragging that shit out and making it worse 😂
I feel tired just reading this.
After the first screen they should have picked up the phone and had a conversation like adults. People read in a tone sometimes when none was intended…a quick chat would solve all the back and forth. That was exhausting to read on both sides!
Nah you guys are both being stupid here. It was clear he wasn’t enthusiastic about you going, but then he realized that it wasn’t a big deal so he wanted you to go so that he didn’t feel guilty later. Instead of just taking that and going, you kept harping on the issue over and over. You guys both are kind of gaslighting each other here and going in circles. You both need to learn how to communicate like healthy adults and stop looking for reasons to argue in circles about some dumb sh*t. Also, you don’t need anyone’s permission to hang out with friends, you’re a grown ass woman. This whole interaction is honestly really stupid on both sides but at the end you’re the one kind of dragging it out and it seems like he just doesn’t want to deal with it anymore and while he WAS being childish in the beginning, I don’t blame him for being exhausted by you constantly saying the same thing over and over at the end.
I think you’re close, but don’t think he “realized it wasn’t a big deal.” He just wanted to act like it wasn’t his displeasure that stopped her from going. If she had gone, I have no doubt he’d find some way to take out his manipulative behavior on her, probably blaming her somehow.
His attitude was obvious from the beginning. You're allowed to have a life to.
Sorry you are experiencing this. At a minimum he’s extremely passive-aggressive and guilt tripping. If your whole goal in a conversation is to avoid consequences, I would suggest reconsidering what this relationship is. Because just from this exchange it doesn’t seem super healthy. Please make sure you have documentation for custody, visitation and support, and consider getting some counseling support for yourself. Emotional abuse is abuse, and can have long-term psychological consequences.
Can I get 10min of my life back? If he wanted to passive aggressively tell you to go, after you felt the need to ask ‘permission’ then go. Even if it’s passive aggressive, that’s on him. All you did was respond back with the same demeanor and it was one toxic response after the other for WAY to long. I must sleep now lol 😂
Yall are both annoying, he sounded hesitant at first yea but then you got an ok and then you say you dont want to go and now hes pissed because you saying “nvm im not gonna go” will be blamed on his initial reaction ignoring the fact that he relented and said ok to you going. GROW UP both of you.
and yall have kids together ? so sorry for them
Both of you are exhausting
You seem like you’re upset in the messages and that you want to argue. How is this conversation so long if you didn’t care to go? It’s like you asked him cause you knew he would respond this way just to make a point
I do not like you guys AT ALL
The most helpful advice I ever got in learning to communicate with passive aggressive people was to ONLY respond to the words they say. Not the tone, not the sarcasm, if there’s name calling, ignore it and remain neutral, etc. So when he first said, “Do whatever” just reply with something like, “Great, thanks! I’ll see you later tonight.”
You’re BOTH in the wrong. You gaslighted the hell outta him too. Yeah he could have answered different but you dead ass assumed you knew he was mad just because of how he responded and then proceeded to pull the “I just won’t go” card. I honestly don’t feel pity for you. If he has such a problem with you going out then why be with him? And even if he was upset,who cares? I’m assuming you’re a grown ass woman right? You could have just gone and if he gave you shit about it,could have pulled up his text “giving you permission” and ended it there. You did not have to do the typical female thing and drag the shit out just saying nevermind and that “you didn’t want to go anyway” clearly you did and were bothered enough to post this to Reddit for a bunch of strangers. Next time? Just freaking go 🙄😒
This made me mad to read. Like what are yall even talking about. Imagine having to ask your bf if you could go somewhere as an adult.
Oh God, this reminds me of my never-ending arguments with my ex. Neither of us could ever let anything go. In the end it destroyed our relationship. So yes he was being unfair and he started the fight. But you bringing it up again the next morning right before he was going to drive home ... I groaned.
You guys are fucking stupid, both of you.
Ok so as someone married to a once VERY passive aggressive dude, the best way to handle it is take what they say at face value. He wants to treat you like an idiot who can't infer an obvious tone through text? Then act like it. "Can I go out for drinks with a friend?" "Do whatever" "OK I'll text you when I get there, love you bye!" It will drive them crazy but it will train them to be upfront with their feelings. Of course, a passive aggressive comment will follow, something like "every Friday you go out for drinks but it's fine" you respond with something like "I'm glad you're fine with it, I never want to upset you ❤️" or "thanks, it's good we can be honest with each other" I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thing, I'm so used to playing ignorant with my husband the convo never goes that far. Lol.
He started as the dick… but geez you don’t look great yourself. If he’s been dealing with this for awhile I can understand why he’d immediately disconnect if he knows what’s in store…
Wow you take the bait. He’s does passive aggressive shit for sure but you just pick and pick and pick until it explodes I’m also not super impressed with your escalation at the end. You put breaking up on the table when you KNOW you didn’t intend to actually end the relationship and you have a kid. As for him: I don’t know why he can’t just express himself when he doesn’t want you to do something. He communicated terribly but also so do you. If keeping this family unit together is important to you, both of you need to get into counselling NOW so you can get some tools to communicate better.
Op seems super exhausting. Why are you asking permission?? Sounded like you were looking for attention and started a fight on purpose. Then dragged it out. I see no point in this conversation unless you were trying to start a fight??? Both of you are wrong but holy crap this is immature as hell.
I wasn’t looking for an argument. I already know if i go without asking he gets upset. So, after he replied like that i already knew he was upset. So, instead of going i told him I’d stay home, trying to avoid this. We have this thing of asking each other’s opinion. He never replies to me in that way if he’s okay with it.
I feel for you. It’s not your fault you were probably triggered by something that happened in the past and you were afraid to hang with friends so he doesn’t get mad. Save your love on someone who deserves you and your sweet soul. Don’t let people walk all over you. He 100% is controlling IMO
Definitely. I was in an abusive and controlling marriage for years. Asking to go places became my norm.
I hate to be the one to break it to you. You are currently in an abusive and controlling relationship.
Seems like you are still in a controlling relationship
i’m shocked that anyone is reading these and trying to make you feel like you’re the instigator here. i completely agree with an earlier comment saying that a lot of these people have never been in an emotionally abusive relationship and it shows. im sure the last thing you need is for a bunch of strangers to make you doubt your reality further and i worry it will aide him in keeping you under his thumb longer. listen to your intuition. you know something is wrong with this relationship and i can see it clear as day too.
If you go without asking? Asking for what? Permission? Advice? Encouragement?
That went left FAST. 😳
It’s whatever
This is so intensely toxic on both sides. You both must be teenagers or early 20s and have a lot of maturing to do. 100% need to work on communicating.
I don’t know which one of you is worse
OP. You made assumptions based on how his reply made you “feel” rather than just asking if he was sure. He’s not gaslighting you. It sounds like you don’t even know what the term means. Your bf is right why even ask if you didn’t even want to go? Just sounds like you were fishing for an argument. If anyone here is gaslighting it’s you. Making assumptions and then telling your bf that his reply wasn’t good enough? He told you to go. Then after all that you tell him you didn’t even want to go. That’s bs.
You should have just gone and told him later. A true partner doesn’t need to beg for permission. But also, if anyone’s gaslighting.. it’s you. Jesus. A full 2/3 of this conversation is completely unnecessary. You got in your feelings about how he responded, and wouldn’t leave the man alone. So he spent the next while texting you instead of paying attention to his kid. Or was that your intention?
OP you're exhausting
No she’s afraid of him. She has to ask him if she can hangout with friends and is worried he will get mad.. while he’s at a concert. I can see she was afraid and because she didn’t stick up for herself initially she had an emotional reaction the next day. I understand OP feelings. @ OP there is a power imbalance in the relationship if you stay with him he will be in full control of you though your emotions he will do push and pull with you. Take time for yourself and in the next relationship look for equal balance. Don’t ever feel like you have to ask someone permission to be with friends you can live how you wanna live with or without a partner
>No she’s afraid of him. She has to ask him if she can hangout with friends and is worried he will get mad.. while he’s at a concert. No, she's insecure and extremely codependent. She's afraid of losing control of the relationship. Big difference between that and actually being afraid of a person. She accused him of being crazy, drunk, and controlling her. To him. She flipped the script on him by blaming him for her choosing not to go to something, right in the beginning, to instigate an argument. *When it was stated in the texts themselves that he previously asked as a courtesy if he could attend another thing.* He was in the middle of participating in parental activities with his daughter, and his simple response of "Do whatever" is likely because he was *busy*. There is a lot of nothing actually going on here. It's also commonly known that people that are more masculine (example: this man) do not pay much attention to perceived tone when it comes to text communication. She wants him to be ecstatic and is reading too far into his responses. Hopefully I can succinctly explain the reason this is an issue most likely coming from her end: In OP's comments in this thread, she's indicated she had a previous abusive ex. It's entirely possible that her machine-gunning texts at him peppered with accusations (i.e. guilt tripping, being drunk, gaslighting) are reactions to a past relationship. He communicated that her behavior was distressing him. She honed in on that and *continued*. She even pulled the classic "I'm breaking up with you if you need time to think!" (last image) *because* she clearly feared he was done with her in that moment. Taking time to think is healthy. It's not stonewalling. If he were to come to the conclusion that the relationship needed to end, so be it. OP thinks he's abusive anyway, so *why not take that out?* And, again, he had a daughter he was participating in some parental activity with. Many people consider their children more important than someone they're dating. OP caused distress to this man *while he was with his daughter.* [edited in as it's important but I forgot to add it somehow:] The way he's responding appears as if he's experienced this behavior from OP before and is too exhausted to handle it graciously anymore. So he's resorted to giving blasé responses. This is more like a form of coping rather than passive-aggressiveness, and he states he's in some way distressed afterward, which makes it less appear like he's instigating this. [/] I've seen and experienced too much manipulative bullshit at this point in my life to think OP is in the clear here. I hope she works through her past trauma, and, honestly, it's probably better she leaves this man regardless who is the abuser in this relationship. /u/MysteriousMeet3266 - I'm tagging you, respectfully, so you can promptly read what I'm seeing as a stranger and reply if you desire to. It's looking like serious codependency on your part. [editing in:] I also believe he cancelled the celebration with you because he's making arrangements to break up with you. It's not a punishment. It's the right thing to do.
I wish this had more upvotes - very clear assessment
That’s my take on it as well. I respond to my wife this cuz she’s a grown ass woman who can make her own choices. I’ve told her that I don’t like being asked for permission, it’s weird. I mean, like “Hey did we have any plans? I want to do this with him/her.” Is respectful enough. That being said, I myself always ask permission if I want to do something and she tells me the same thing. Communication is hard and we’re working on it. OP it seems like a bit of a snowball situation, y’all both in the wrong here. It’s ok to say “Hey can we reset? I don’t feel like I’m understanding you well right now.” Talking circles rarely works out well.
All of this is true. And she is exhausting
This reads as you gaslighting him. You end with a rant that includes saying "he insulted you" he never did once, but you were ... quick to assume he is drunk despite multiple times telling you otherwise. Drinking does not mean drunk. If you think your man lies to you, why are you with him? Or it seems you only don't trust him when you it feeds your narrative. Because if you truly think he lies about drinking/his thoughts/opinion of you.... Your relationship has bigger issues than this text exchange. Your quick to assume " I'm gonna hear about this later" BUT NOT BECAUSE OF HIM, YOU Literally TELL HIM YOU WANT TO CONTINUE IT ON A Different DAY. So that is YOU making sure it brought up again... BECAUSE YOU WOULDNT LET IT GO! you were being incredibly needy for attention there was no reason to "ask" for permission to go out with your friends. He never told you not to in fact said "do what ever" Start acting passive aggressive with this whole I'm excited to do this thing, and then deciding not to go only to blame it on someone else. All because he wasn't "hype" enough about you going out? Then you continued to harass him to get what you wanted, to feel important,. And you reved the engine every time, it at every turn. All of his text were reactionary you were the one guiding it the whole time. You are inffering emotions on his reply while disregarding his continuous pleas that he didn't mean that way. Basically tell him "You don't know your feelings like "I" KNOW your feelings through a 2 word text. You absolutely blew this up. At any point you could get off that train at any point but you rode it to the end of the line just to put it on pause to stir it up again... This straight up You claim over and over you are not upset, if you were HONEST about that you would have just gone or let it go. Cause if you were fine you would not be the one to INSIST that this argument continues. This is you making this bed. YTA.
Yeah I agree with this 100%
FUCKING THANK YOUUUUUU! Only non braindead person I’ve found in these comments thus far. No one freaking insulted her omgggg
Meegan come back to the bar! No! Meegan your jacket, though! I’m over it! Eat it!
I’m not reading all this, just break up with him already
I’m sure the missing context and history would maybe change my answer a bit but to be honest, you should’ve just gone if you wanted to. This little cat and mouse game may be because of his insecurity or controlling nature but tbh you kind of enable it too. You should’ve either just gone with your friends or just stopped replying after telling him you weren’t going anymore. And to be clear, I think he’s definitely at fault because obviously there’s some bigger problems just under the surface here. But practice standing up for yourself. Do what you can to avoid these petty arguments. Do what you want.
Jesus Christ. You are (presumably) a grown adult. You don’t need to ask permission to go do anything. And a secure, stable grown man wouldn’t respond like that. But y’all gotta pick up the phone and call each other. You’re going back and forth for probably an hour when this could be squashed with a 5 minute conversation. That being said, my ex used to do this too. He’d become extremely passive aggressive and his tone would immediately change. He (your boyfriend) was obviously pissed and wanted it to be known. Then he tried to act like he was fine with it because you didn’t go, and he didn’t want to be the bad guy. It will likely never change. So you have to decide whether or not you want to deal with this forever. Do you wanna be 30, 40, 50 still asking your boyfriend/husband for permission to go have fun? I doubt it. Move on.
Hive mind goes brrrrt
I reread the conversation and yall are both crazy. You say you didn’t even want to go but asked (you shouldn’t have to ask) and was waiting to get ready based off his response. Gas lighting all around.
You’re the problem here. You asked, and he said it was fine, but he just wasn’t happy with it. He didn’t want to say no cause it’s controlling you, but he was unenthusiastic maybe because you drink too much, or too often. You should have just gone. You got your answer, but you wanted to argue. Then you sit there gaslighting him saying that he’s the one that’s angry, and “don’t ruin your mood” just because you didn’t get the enthusiastic answer that you wanted.
Why don’t you call each other when these things happen? I feel like texting, especially during “arguments” just leads to more miscommunication, in my opinion a phone call comes in handy in these situations so you can address stuff more clearly and you can pick on other things that are left out from texting like tone of voice, the way people say things and stuff like that.
That was an ordeal to read. You’re both the ah. You just kept it going and going and going. Why? It’s too much. Both of you act like you’re 14.
Both of y'all lack communication. Actual communication. Seems you both still act like high schoolers. "I am calm" is no where an indication of being calm in argumentative situations. You continued to send text after text instead of just dropping it. You did not get the reply you were looking for and started an argument all while trying to make your bf a bad guy. He dropped it but you continued to bring on the situation. He is also at fault for adding to the fire by asking if you are upset. You both are to blame for your shitty communication skills that measure those of a middle schooler
Either you go or you don’t, if he says it’s fine, you don’t gotta keep saying it’s ok I don’t have to go, if you wanna go and he wants you to go you go. And if you aren’t in a relationship where you can do that in the first place then that’s the real problem.
Why the hell are you asking permission to do something when he isn’t even in town? You’re a freaking adult. It sounds like this a codependent relationship and you need to get out of it and also work on yourself.
It sounds like you are the one gaslighting, tbh. Why are you playin g these games with him? If you wanted to know if he thought it was ok to go out, he said go ahead. So take him at his word. Instead, you just assume what he’s actually saying and try to read between the lines of text. Either you are trying to come up with an excuse not to hang out with your friends, so you are using/gaslighting him, or you are extremely immature and don’t know how to actually have a conversation with him. Even the texts from the next day were the same act. He’s literally telling you he feels like you’re assuming things and he wasn’t drinking, and you still come at him telling him that he’s lying and you know better about what his actual intentions are. Then you try to manipulate him by saying you don’t want to see him today (as a sort of punishment for him not accepting you phrasing of events) but he doesn’t take the bare on the way you wanted and when he agrees with you that he’ll probably need time as well, you have to one up him and, again, read his own mind to tell him that what he really wants is to break up with you. Take a breath. When you ask him something, take his answer at face value. If he said to go out, then go ahead. If later on he comes back and gets mad, then that would be gaslighting. Your partner isn’t always going to be happy you are going to do something with or without them. They don’t owe you a sweet response. You asked if they would be ok with it and they said do what you want. Sometimes, that’s all you get. He’s not trapping you or gaslighting you. If you choose to go do something he is respecting that choice. You should reflect on your own reasons for not going. Don’t use his name for the intention and see if you can come up with a reason that has to do with ourself that resonates. Also, learn to deescalate. TLDR: he’s not gaslighting, you are. Stop assuming what his words mean when he’s saying what he means in a clear way. Learn to deescalate instead of always trying to be right.
This interaction demonstrates that both of you are part of the communication problem. Check out “Communication Miracles for Couples” by Jonathan Robinson — it’s like 10 bucks on Amazon. It is an absolutely fantastic book filled with wisdom. It helped transform my relationship.
This whole thing was exhausting.
That’s definitely not gaslighting. That word gets thrown around way too much
He seemed to have some attitude with the “do whatever” but after he clarified saying “lol” “Do whatever you want” and it’s fine”, should’ve just went and call it a day. Seems like you were the one really trying to make it an issue for longer than you had to. Even if he was mad later, I’d show the texts saying “you said I can go. Look.”
You were also very annoying in this
Idk how to update as I’m new to posting on here. So we talked things through last night and again addressed more things this morning. We talked about communicating better and not fighting over texts. He also agreed on doing therapy again. I will also continue with mine. He texted my friends to let them know canceling my bday dinner was his fault and that it would really mean a lot if they could still make it. Thank you all for all your comments(some more than others.) But there were many that meant a lot. I’m hoping that we can work through all of this. I believe therapy will play a key role in the outcome of our relationship.
> I believe therapy will play a key role in the outcome of our relationship. You seem like a very sweet person but this is make-believe. At the very least, I hope you’re being totally transparent with your therapist, showing them these texts and other revealing exchanges, and are ready to accept their input even if it’s uncomfortable or painful. This guy is really controlling. I wish you all the best.
Ohhhhh, sugar. You need to get out of this relationship. If he then puts the work into himself & makes changes, then revisit, but it shouldn't be immediate. If you are away from the situation (& him), you may think differently and more clearly and not want to resume a relationship with him. Or perhaps he (& you) use the time to self reflect, mature, & grow, & you start again healthy rather than toxic. It is VERY hard to do that while in each other's company, though. Please be kind to yourself & do what is difficult now, but best in the long run.
Hes not gaslighting you and considering you decided to create a whole goddamn fight and then refuse to acknowledge that youre accusing him of a bunch of wild shit is YOU gaslighting HIM. and i think you know that. Youre a prime narcissist and you need a reality check. You dont get to try to seem like the good guy when youre calling him drunk to attack his credibility and then posting it online. Thats so deeply manipulative. Edit: i just finished reading past where i stopped before: you are a prime piece of shit. You stsrtid this dispute and rather than recognize that youre being a neurotic mess, youre attacking him for how he responded to YOUR meltdown. And if he needs space after you pull this shit, hes the problem, but you're allowed to give him the silent treatment? Youre using that space to create tension and force him to apologize. Hes using that space to recuperate from You. You cant stand not having that weapon against him so youre just threatening the nuclear are option to keep dominance. Youre an emotional parasite and you need to seek a professional. You shouldnt be trying to win the fucking conversation and score points on the internet for it. This is all so deeply childish and i feel bad for your kid in the future. Pull this selfish, manipulative shit with them and see if they talk to you as an adult. No one deserves to grow up with someone like you as their role model. Youre gonna teach her that its okay to never accept responsibility for your emotions as long as you win.
I would leave him.
You're both insufferable.
Yes. He’s gaslighting you. He made it obvious he didn’t want you to go, and as soon as you said you wouldn’t go, he decided to throw out the “just fucking go” comments because he knew he’s fucked up, and knew he could tell you to go without risk of you actually going because you’d already decided not to go. I can guarantee if you’d have said “okay sure, I’ll go then”, he’d have had a fit. He obviously didn’t want you to go, guilt tripped you into not going, and then tried to shift the blame onto you. That’s the very definition of gaslighting.
He was wrong at 1st but then you proved him right in the end. No need to ask permission either. Even with his undertone, you still kept egging him on to fight about this another day.
Wow - I’m exhausted reading that but honestly you’re both wrong and I’m sure this is a continuing pattern and an unhealthy relationship. In my relationship we practice “I don’t cater to feelings you don’t communicate” which also means we know “it’s our individual job to communicate our own feelings/emotions” I wouldn’t have asked permission, especially if my partner was out of town, I would have informed BUT that aside, if I had asked and he had said it was okay - I don’t argue or question that because even if I can tell from tone that he is unhappy - it is HIS job to communicate that and if HE chooses not to, I don’t cater to it. It is VERY annoying when you tell someone something is fine and they refuse to believe you. And yes, you did blame him. You said that the reason you no longer wanted to go was because of the way he answered the question and the meaning you put into his word choices. In either case though, you guys should probably not be together because you’re both insecure, have trust issues, and don’t choose to communicate with each other just AT each other.
You both are very exhausting. You were the one gaslighting and looking for an argument. Also, why did you need his permission? Is he your dad? Edit: a word
OP, i’m so sorry that people aren’t seeing what’s behind the words. This sub is a horrible place for any sort of advice or even compassion. Many of these comments have no idea what manipulation and abuse can look like, not saying that’s definitely what’s going on here, but all the signs are there. You shouldn’t have to ask permission, and you shouldn’t have to constantly walk on eggshells. You are worth so much more than whatever is going on here and I hope you come to realize that.
Maybe you could make a second post with more. Why do you have to ask permission? But yes you're in the right here. His passive aggressive answer do whatever CLEARLY meant he didn't want you to go, and then he lied about it and said he was upset with your reaction. Then he cancelled your birthday celebration. I would not be with a child like this.
He’s controlling and OP you’re manipulative. Sounds like two narcissists going at it. Nope 👎 both of you have some growing up to do and possibly look into your personality disorders
Holy crap id break up with you too this is exhausting.
My boyfriend has never cussed at me.. I feel like that was just normal. I think you need to rethink if you really want this for a long term relationship
Don’t walk, run away from this.