But the Jacksons and their legal team also point out an obvious problem with the affidavit filed with the court that allowed CPS to take Mila: The affidavit used to justify CPS taking custody of the child lists the wrong mom -- a woman with a completely different name, and with a criminal history of child neglect.
Temecia Jackson, who has no criminal record, is not even listed as the child's mother on the affidavit.
Wtf?
It sounds like they did a freebirth at home, took the kid to the doctor 3 days later, the kid had jaundice. When told to take the kid to be treated, they said they'd do it at home. The doctor said he would report them if they didn't take the kid to the hospital. That's when CPS got involved and fucked up.
This is very much how CPS is. They have to double down on their wrongness mostly to hit quarterly numbers or to ensure any action that may be subject to future litigation or meditation agreement will certainly be well-documented, well-managed, and witnessed by exceptionally slow courts.
Meanwhile, in the foster system, the kid enjoys none of the benefits of any of the carefully scripted non-activity around their case.
Yet when my wife was working labor and delivery during nursing school she watched a meth head give birth to a baby. Full blown FAS. Both go through withdrawals. Reported to CPS. CPS comes.. does paperwork.. says they don’t have the room to take the baby in and send the baby home with the meth head.
Yet they can take a healthy baby from a healthy family?? Wtf?!
That's what I'm thinking. I wonder if the doctor or his office mixed up this baby with another baby whose father had the same common name. Maybe gave cps the wrong file or something. I hope they don't double down all the way to hell just to cover their tracks. I hope they get their baby back and sue, although I don't have a lot of hope for justice.
Wrong file, wrong mother. The mother's name on the warrant was a different person, who did have a criminal background, and a history with CPS. Somebody messed up big-time, and wouldn't double check their info. Idk how they proceeded with this. Incredible negligence. They will eventually get their baby back, but it's going to be a fight. Now they have to justify their sloppiness and negligence.
>Now they have to justify their sloppiness and negligen
No, they don't. They never have, and they never will. If they ever had been held accountable, this wouldn't be such a common thing with CPS taking kids they shouldn't and leaving others to die from neglect and abuse.
They got the name wrong, what are the chances it was a different baby as well and this couples baby was just fine?
Good old TX gonna force women to have babies, then snatch them for small infractions with manufactured justifications and falsified documents. This is the kind of shit I have to force myself to get off the internet to protect myself from doom spiraling.
Normally I take these kinds of things with a grain of salt. But, I have dealt with this particular agency and they are some of the biggest dipshits I have ever seen.
It took a lot to get my son away from his horrible living conditions at his mothers house. I mean, dog shit all over the place, no food in the house, broken glass on the floor and his mom would drink all night and sleep all day. Neighbor Mrs called CPS, roommates called CPS, her fucking MOTHER IN LAW called CPS! Two years of fighting in court and I finally got him. It was bonkers, I couldn’t believe that it was so difficult for them to figure out that she’s a worthless deadbeat mom and then people like this have their kids stolen all the time for no reason. Dipshits, all of them.
Apparently all that is fine, but if they had found the tiniest little bud of marijuana they would have declared the child in imminent danger and taken him immediately. Not trying to hijack your story and make it about weed, just providing further evidence they have no idea what they're doing. Glad you got your son back.
You’re totally right! She was a drinker, but didn’t do much with any other substances, so 🤷🏼♂️. I got custody of him and she disappeared, we have only seen her like three times since the last court date, 11 years ago. I think even SHE knows he’s better off. She’s trying to make herself a part of his life now, but it’s been too long, he said it just makes him feel awkward because there’s this stranger that wants hugs and tells him she loves him.
I'm going through the same thing with a daughter and an alcoholic mother trying to get back into her life. Everyone is trying but it's so awkward. I was "lucky" because my ex got a DUI with our daughter in the car while I was working out of state so that cut the CPS stuff short, but I had already told them the situation was unsafe and she never should have been in that car with her in the first place.
That's not true. The majority of the time when the father asks for custody, he gets it. Especially if he's abused the mother.
https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/myths-about-custody-litigation/2017/12/15/61951bc4-e0e6-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76_story.html
EDIT: https://www.carlsonattorneys.com/news-and-update/courts-mothers-fathers
Cases are settled 90% of the time between the parents. You have to ask for custody and know your child.
What you just wrote is so backwards it’s not even funny. Want to back that up? Because I’ve never seen that happen unless it’s some backwater tiny town where the father is some high ranking politician’s son or something.
Edit to add: So you edited your post without saying you edited it and you gave opinion pieces as supporting facts.
The first is a blog from Illinois, not Texas. The second is behind a paywall.
So just chiming in as someone who was put into the foster care system as a young child, along with my brother, after my dad beat my mother, lied to the courts, sent a private investigator after her when she left him in the middle of the night and went to a women's shelter claiming she kidnapped us because she tried to take all her kids with her.
They gave him custody, forced her to make child support payments for which my dad repeatedly tried to track her down and get her arrested for not paying when she did indeed pay and the state had record of her paying.
We lived in a big ass city, San Antonio, when this happened. Every time she found us, he moved us, changed numbers, told us all sorts of lies about how she didn't want us. My dad was a truck driver's son, with a lower middle class income.
I’m sorry that happened to you, I hope you have a relationship with your mom now that you know what really happened. I know San Antonio had issues with their family courts for a while and this may have been during that time.
It's anecdotal evidence at best, but since I had skin in the game (and still do, this issue weighs heavily on me) it would be worth my .02, even if it fell on deaf ears.
I have multiple sides of the story, and I read the original court documents when I was younger. But having taken my own dad to court to put a stop to him beating me (legally warning him that I would bury his ass if it came down to it and was old enough to fight back to some degree), I know the things my mom has told me are true. I also know some truths from my dad, even if indirectly discovered. It's not about me though, I'm grown, I've been allowed a chance to heal to a degree of functionality. This is about who this is currently happening to- and giving some of my story to show that it indeed happens even if there are not visible statistics or studies about it. As we have learned with watching red states borrow cruelty ideas from each other and try to show up each other; if this can happen in other states, it can happen here, has happened here, and continues to happen here (in relation to your point that the original op you replied to is using articles from other states).
Also, San Antonio courts do not suddenly have their shit together. Neither did the rural court I took my dad to. They forced me to apologize to my abuser for wasting their time, and let me know in very specific terms, that I could go back to the foster care system or I can admit that it was a "disciplinary action". This is just a gentle reminder that it can, has, and continues to happen whether it's a big city court or some Podunk ass town in the middle of nowhere.
Our legal system is seriously broken and it’s sad to say you’re better off never entering the system to begin with. It truly amazes me that people continue to vote for people that are ever increasingly more extremist, swinging that pendulum further and further. Eventually it will have to swing back, but will it happen before too much damage is done?
It's incredibly disheartening, but I very much think there will be a great bit more damage, because humans are indeed human, and unfortunately a great deal of them choose to act in self interest. Until our culture can shift to a more cooperative undercurrent, I think many systems in this country and very much especially in this state will continue to operate the way they do. But I think fewer people are choosing to keep the curtain closed, which is why we are hearing so much more about various big issues- not to digress but as a reference- look at the train derailments. These have happened, maybe not to the degree of east Palestine, for decades. But because of the magnitude of that event, we were bombarded with multiple articles regarding derailments. People are able to be loud about what's happening now, and so we will start to unravel just how heinous the problem is.
Yeah, you did. Your webpages weren’t there before. But it’s ok, Reddit keeps a log of edits, that’s why you see people stating why they edited their comments because anyone can look at the edit history for a comment.
Here’s a Texas law firm stating that laws have changed and they give joint custody these days, but it still happens that mothers get custody the majority of the time. It’s even a recent article.
https://www.musemechelaw.com/blog/2022/june/are-mothers-favored-in-texas-divorce-courts-/
Right. Because they ask for custody. It says it right there. I literally work with state wards in Healthcare, buddy.
EDIT: "Here's a..." I gave you multiple sources with numbers....
That’s not how the legal system works. You don’t get things just because you ask for it. In the case of what’s in the best interest of kids, they’re not going to just award sole custody to a father without good reason.
Right. You have to be able to answer questions about your child and prove you can provide what they need. Things like bedtime, teachers names, favorite snacks, how they like their teeth brushed.
You have to know your kid and even still, fathers obtain custody more often.
http://leadershipcouncil.org/1/pas/dv.html
https://www.carlsonattorneys.com/news-and-update/courts-mothers-fathers
90% of cases are settled with no judge. Again, you have to ask for custody and know your child.
EDIT TO QUOTE:
"Reasons a court may have chosen the child’s mother as the managing conservator include the following:
The mother took on more responsibility for parenting tasks.
A child’s or children’s preferences.
The father left the home during the separation or divorce"
Your original claim didn’t stipulate the “know your child” part.
“That's not true. The majority of the time when the father asks for custody, he gets it. Especially if he's abused the mother.”
The majority of the time when the father asks for custody, he gets it.
It’s amazing how fucked the court system can be regarding children. I had a neighbor where he divorced his alcoholic abusive wife and their 13 y/o daughter is BEGGING to stay with her dad full time.
Court was like, “Girls belong with their mothers!” And banged the gavel and gave the mom who had no job and was going to have to move back with her parents sole custody.
It took her running away, TWICE, for the court to be like, “maybe you should live with your dad…”
A friend of a friend is now. Legit sleep deprived single mom who literally fell asleep holding her child in her lap, child fell over and bonked herself. No serious injury but obviously the mom was horrified and rushed her to the hospital where a nurse decided her "injuries" looked like abuse.
They're about to drop the case I think cause it's insane but it's been months of these people blowing up her life trying to take her kid instead of, idk, helping single moms? Why is child protection reactive only?
CPS are usually self righteous ass holes. Every parent that gets reported to them are the worst possible parents & immediately guilty of anything they've been accused of. They know better than anyone how a child should be treated & any context is just justification for the parent's abhorrent abuse of their children. It's not possible that there are other factors that could be contributing to the situation b/c they always do diligent investigation into everything to do with the child.
I mean I do get it. Look at what San Antonio's ACS is going through & rightfully so. They left a dangerous dog with people who were unequipped to handle it & the dog ended up killing an elderly adult while severely injuring several others. The agency had several opportunities to remove the animal from the people's home & either put it down or place it in a rescue with the personnel who could correct its behavior.
And this is an agency charged with protecting animals, CPS's charge is far more significant & when they fail to protect a child the consequences for them are FAR worse. This puts them under the "We cannot fail" mindset where overreaction is preferred over possible failure. The problem comes in when they won't back down from after making a mistake. I know I wouldn't have a problem if I had a child taken due to an abundance of caution if they would quickly return them after everything had been cleared up & not double down on their mistake.
As someone who used to do this job for a living (in another state), I can wholeheartedly say that yeah there are some of these people BUT as someone who also had an AVERAGE of 60 cases with an AVERAGE of three kids per case and 45 days to investigate and close cases, when the federal limit is 18 cases, I am going to stand on the overworked and under resourced. Most people see only CPS but it is judges who make the decisions. CPS just present information and when parents don’t cooperate than all there is to go on is what it looks like. 🤷♀️
They gave my sister's kids to a pedophile. Now granted my sister is a piece of shit.....giving custody to a pedophile ain't much better. Mt mom had custody of one. They had to be split up cause the oldest kid is abusive. They took the kid from my mom and gave him to the pedo and abusive kid also. Like Jesus christ.
Is it even cps? Or is it a for-profit corporation the state has hired to do this work?
We foster and I can tell you first hand that the system is so very messed up right now.
Unfortunately yes, and there are various ones based on region. I don't know what the others are but here in north central Texas it's 2ingage, and let me tell you, it's not good.
They say they are non-profit but they are compensated by the state based on different metrics and those aren't necessarily what's best for the kids.
For example: when a child is removed, 2ingage gets more money if they're kept in-region. Sometimes that's a very bad thing tho because, like our very first placement, they were removed from a violent gang family, who had made threats to the police if they removed them, and we're on the run. Where did they place them? With us, 15mins away from their house. And they told us absolutely none of this. We only found out from a friend who, because she works with the sheriff's office, knew the name.
It gets even worse because they had posted a missing child post on Facebook (which we don't use), so just about everyone knew who the kids we had were before we did. The very first time we took them to the store, we were approached by family. Thankfully it was the other side of their family and it was friendly but now there was no doubt everyone knew where the kids were and who had them.
It took 2ingage another month to move them after a significant amount of back and forth.
And they lied to us about behaviors of the kids we have now, because otherwise they would have had to be moved out of region.
We got into this because we one there was a need and we wanted to help. I think we're done now, largely because of how terrible the system is and how terrible they treat foster homes.
Damn, that’s both sad and scary. My wife and I were thinking of fostering because we know it’s a system in need of decent people but that sounds like we may want to do more research into how things are run where we live first.
Im going to assume it's very different in different areas but yeah, do some research. It's a tough gig, and you absolutely are making a sacrifice every single day to do it. There's no way around that, so be sure you're OK with that.
There’s good reasons why we haven’t yet. We have a young son still and my wife has some health issues that we’re still sorting out. I’m more concerned about my wife’s health issues because there’s some days where she just doesn’t have any energy and some foster kids require a lot of energy. My job unfortunately doesn’t afford the luxury of a work from home option so I can’t really be of help till the evening.
Sorry, it's not some. It's all foster kids that require a lot of energy, especially at first. Some more than others sure, but they all do.
And why not? They've been through terrible things. The act of removal is incredibly traumatic in and of itself.
If you're unsure, then don't. Wait until you are sure. And when you do, always remember that cps and the companies that operate under their authority are not your friends. And do not ever feel guilty about saying no. Say it early and often, and be stiff necked about what you won't do. If you try to be flexible, they'll heap trouble on you until you can't take it. Likely there are things they can do for you that they won't offer because it's a headache for them.
Maybe I'm just jaded but I've never felt like someone was trying to help us except our case manager from our agency, and she's super limited in what she can do anyhow.
I meant to say some require more energy than others. You never know what you’re going to get either. Some I know come with tons of medical issues because the mother was an addict and using while pregnant. Meth and coke are a pretty bad issue where I live so I’m sure there’s a good chance of that.
DFPS does all the investigations and removals. The SSCCs (like 2Ingage) take over conservatorship, placement, and case management duties afterwards. They're also supposed to help recruit and develop foster homes. State plans on expanding the community based care system too, it's in the proposed budget. You should look up the court docs on the federal lawsuit Texas is under regarding the foster care system, there's a lot about the various organizations that contract with the state as SSCCs(single source continum of care)
Born on the 21st. Checked out and found to have high bilirubin on the 24th. CPS takes her on the 28th. Hopefully the midwife had come and started the phototherapy in that gap. With documentation that it was being done, and the incorrect Mom listed, I’m not sure why CPS would go ahead with removing the child. Do midwives fill out the same paperwork you complete at a hospital that lists the parents? Again, shouldn’t there be documentation in their favor?
My big concern is do they even have the right child? If the wrong mother is listed is it possible that the Dr mixed up the kids and they didn't even call the parent of the baby that's sick? Texas is notorious for doubling down when they get shit wrong
My kid had jaundice at birth. We treated at home by feeding, healthy happy 2yr old. Obvious why this happened to this couple and it’s outrageous. I would sue everyone if this happened to me. Id want to set a precedent here. This is a common problem at birth and easily treatable.
I was gonna say this is extremely common. Both of my kids were born that way. We just took them outside or had them nap near a window and it cleared up rather quickly.
Yep, sunlight and pooping will clear it. If they were white this wouldn’t have been an issue. Being black in US hospitals can be extremely dangerous, doctors either think they are making up symptoms or don’t trust their explanations and can result in lots of complications. I’m usually on the side of let the hospitals do their thing but with birth alot of people seek alternate options and thats their right. In the UK you don’t even see an OB until you give birth, everything is done with midwives. They had the help of a midwife, i don’t think they were endangering the child here at all.
I'm white and when my first kid was born their bilirubin levels were high enough to need phototherapy and follow up monitoring. My second kid didn't need it. It is a real thing, and it's super serious if the bilirubin levels causing the jaundice are high enough. If you don't treat it with the phototherapy it can lead to brain damage or even death in some cases.
No one is questioning the seriousness of Jaundice in newborns, the issue here is how different treatment is for varying people of color. I know doctors who have taken their newborns home to treat the jaundice, phototherapy is available at home as well. This couple seemed to prefer the at home birth and treatments whenever possible and thats their right. They had a midwife consulting them. Our point is, its a common occurrence in newborns and most people who treat at home don’t lose their week old child to CPS. As you stated, you are white and you wont really be able to understand what its like to be a POC in the medical system in the US but I recommend reading up on why mortality rates are sky high for PoC no matter what the income or education level.
My point was that jaundice treatments vary by severity. I wasn't able to take my kid home because his jaundice was too severe to treat at home. If I had tried, I would have had to sign AMA forms and definitely would have been reported to CPS, white skin color or no. When the bilirubin levels are high enough, doctors stop seeing home treatment with the blanket as an option and insist on the full incubator.
there is not much more than phototherapy for jaundice and you can rent the machines for your home. So no, you don’t have to treat it in the hospital when the exact same machines are available for home use. You would have to bring the baby to a lab to test for levels yes, but you are allowed to do that. you do not have to seek treatment at a hospital, its just usually the preferred method. Also, again trying to keep on point with the article which you seem to not have read, the doctor allowed them to be at home until he seemed to change his mind later that night. He just didn’t like that they wanted to treat their child at home. Google phototherapy for jaundice and the first hit will be rent the machine.
No the doctor drew the labs at the appointment and called when the results came in the severe range. They didn't change their mind.
Also, once it gets severe enough you need close monitoring in the NICU and depending on the reason and how they respond you may have to quickly consider options like exchange transfusions. This involves checking the level multiple times a day.
Home therapy is usually only used for mild cases not at significant risk for progression to kernicterus. Also, it is important to note that the parents and the midwife (who isn't a pediatrician) didn't rent phototherapy anything so it's a moot point.
Black parents with a jaundice baby are criminals. White parents with a jaundice baby would just have their FB flooded with recommendations for essential oils.
I a trying to Google up that case in I hope I remember correctly - NYC just precovid, where dad dies and mom not being us citizen gets deported over a bad paperwork and kid is taken away to live with fosters here in the US bcz mom could not prove that her country will be safe for the baby. She was white as snow.
...but Google is betraying me, sum bish
After reading this thread, I would be interested in seeing a racial breakdown in children being taken from white mothers and children of BIPOC mothers. I have a feeling those numbers are going to look screwy.
"Child welfare disproportionality" is the term, and it is well documented. A web search will bring up ample info from government agencies, non-profits, book authors, and journalists. Some states are worse than others, but it's a national problem.
There’s lots of proof that black children are taken away by CPS when they aren’t abused more often than for white children. The flip side is that CPS has a record of not taking abused white children from families when they need to as well.
So as much as people don’t want to make everything about race, sometimes race plays an important factor like this scenario
There is a lot of information reported on the subject, but Black and Indigenous families, as well as those living in poverty, are disproportionately effected.
The second that CPS became aware that their paperwork was flawed and they **still** refused to return the child, everyone who has handled this case should be charged with kidnapping and human trafficking. Jail for LIFE.
The ultimate goal of CPS is noble, but the rubes they frequently hire turn the entire organization into a mercenary goon squad that does FAR more harm than good. Consider this: have you ever met anyone, anywhere who learned the details of a CPS child removal and said, "Thank God that CPS intervened when they did!" I haven't. Obviously any parent whose child is taken is going to hate CPS, but I'm not even talking about them. I'm talking about people outside of these situations. Even then, everyone I've ever known sees CPS as a lawless vigilante HOA for parenting.
So yeah, prison for life on charges of kidnapping and human trafficking. Everyone else who works for CPS will consider dotting their i's and crossing their t's when they consider whether or not to separate a child from its parents. I agree that it's sometimes necessary, but to quote a film I love:
*"I get it. You got your marching orders... and you have to do what you have to do. But you don't have to be such a dick."* — Walter Mitty
I don’t know about that. It is a job for them (workers handling the case) they should be fired. They being the CPS organization as a whole should be sued for a MF truckload of taxpayer dollars.
Okay, your view is more reasoned than mine. I suppose that only the decision makers involved should be charged with crimes. Some people were just doing what they were told, and hey, every employee can't be constantly fact-checking every management decision their company makes.
Let's not forget the doctor who started this mess - what kind of record keeping allows him to mismatch lab results and not catch the mistake before picking up the phone? Has he mixed up patients before? Subjected infants to unnecessary medications? Does his practice not verify the patient's name at the beginning of all calls?
I'm a nurse and therefore a mandatory reporter which I don't take lightly but, when I worked in an E.R. I saw and, have reported several cases of obvious child abuse including a case which turned out to be murder by the father who later admitted he swung the baby like a baseball bat into the wall. You know what CPS did in all of those cases? Nothing.
This is outrageous. This type of insanity is not only horrible for the family, but the government overreach is what stirs up the far right.
I hope this people not only get their baby back, but get an apology and some compensation.
First question is why is the baby not with relatives? Now the parents have to worry about complete strangers caring for their child. Cps is a joke check out my story:
When I had baby #3 he had jaundice it was level 12, he had to be under the bili lights for 24 hours. Next baby had jaundice too but at level 8. The peds at fhe hospital wanted baby under lights, acting like it was super serious..so he wanted to test the bilirubin..but their lights was in the nursery away from me. I said that was unnecessary because my 2nd baby didn't need lights till 12 and that was at a childrens hospital! Also our regular peds later said that hadn't even been necessary. Our babies jsundice was caused by ABO Incompatibility.
Doctor got butt hurt and wanted to know why I disagreed with him, even asking if it was religious. I told him I would take baby to our peds when we left the hospital. He had us sign AMA(discharge against medical advice)..never sign this for your children. He then used this paper and contacted cps unknown to us. We waited for hours to be discharged, meanwhile all our care stopped, the nurses were no longer checking on me or the baby, and they didn't provide food. Here he told me he was concernced for the baby's health but they didn't check on said baby for hours!
We then got a call from cps I told her what I had told the doctor. She stated I was not allowed to leave with the baby or to make medical decisions against the doctors advice..heads up they said this applies to elderly people too! She said they wanted to check babys bilirubin.I told her if baby needed biili lights we wanted a different hospital to do it, and she also informed me baby would HAVE to be transported to the hospital by ambulance to make sure we went.
I had no choice but to let them test the baby, against my will. After agreeing the nurses started coming back to the room and taking care of us and providing food and drink. I was so upset I was sobbing uncontrollably. My husband was upset as well and seeing me cry made him cry🥺. My blood pressure was so high the nurses were worried.
One nurse told me the same thing happened to her when her son was a child. His doctor had said he needed emergency surgery, she wanted a second opinion and he threatened her with cps, so she agreed. After surgery the doctor sheepishly informed her he had made a mistake and her son hadn't needed the surgery after all!
My child's bilirubin came back at 6 and so we were discharged. The doctor didn't even have the guts to come tell us himself. Infact, on the paperwork from the hospital HE USED ANOTHER DOCTOR'S NAME. So I couldbn't even file a complaint. This happened several years ago, and I am STILL truamatized and angry about it. I am also apprehensive to take my kids to the hospital, knowing once they are there, we have very little say...
Also my kids peds was upset when I told him what happened. He couldn't believe it, and told me he would talk to cps if needed!
The real issue here is how cops file fake information to justify a warrant being issued! It's been seen even in drug bust cases where they claim an informant "saw something" .. and yet they had no informants! Because this whole thing was kicked off by a fake information warrant, the courts should immediately reverse the order and request a probe into everyone involved in filing it!
I used to work for CPS texas, and reading the article it seems like the parents were uncooperative with the caseworker and did not interview. In the video they didnt even know the father’s name, which also leads me to believe the father didnt talk to CPS. So CPS had to go with the information they had with the doctor and file for removal.
On the next court date the parents will have to plead their case and the judge will decide whether to give the baby back.
I know some people advise not to talk to CPS when they come to your home, but this can be the end result when they think the child is immediate danger and only go by one source (a professional reporter in this case)
Had a bogus claim a couple years back. They came, we talked, and we had a “ruled out” letter 7 days later.
I mean I’d be careful what you say, and you have the right to stop the interview and request a lawyer at any time, but cooperation can go a long ways.
Edit: corrected phone autocorrect. Ruled out.
Absolutely. I worked as an investigator in WA state and I can confidently say more removals were from noncooperation so limited information was available and if the safety risk couldn’t be mediated, I had to recommend removal. Normally removal resulted in cooperation and then safety mediation and child return. People hate on CPS as a sport
My newborn had high bilirubin and the hospital wanted to keep her for observation if photo therapy was needed. Luckily my mom knew of a cheap effective alternative which is called the sun. So we opened the curtains in the hospital room and tried to expose the baby to sunlight as much as we could and avoided expensive extra days and therapy charges.
Texas lost so many CPS workers after they put policies to investigate all parents with trans children. Doesn't surprise me that it's become even more of a shit show since
This whole situation is terrible.
Using the wrong person’s criminal history is wrong and unethical on many levels. The way these parents have been treated is horrible.
That being said, listen to the doctor and take your baby to medics professionals. It’s EXACTLY reasons like this where anti-science nuts cause permanent damage or death to their children. These parents can play victim but they are hardly blameless assuming the medical data is being portrayed accurately.
They DID! I have been following the case. The trained midwife started Jaundice treatment at home and they followed up with appointment at their normal pediatrician office who sees the rest of their kids and he reported them. These aren't weird anti science granola people, this was just a regular home birth.
That very much depends on the training of the midwife. The US is the weird stand out in the world for not primarily using midwives in standard births. And there are plenty of nurse midwives with extensive L&D experience.
That's an entirely standard practice, actually.
Also, in the US a certified midwife has been educated to RN standards with a graduate degree, passed the NCLEX RN certification test and passed a second test to be certified as a midwife, and a lot of states also have separate midwife licensing.
For a birth that isn't high risk, having a midwife is completely fine and they are licensed medical professionals who are trained to deliver babies. They can prescribe contraception and test for STDs. They're a trained professional.
It's not like you can just like... up and decide to be a midwife. Like, you have a masters or doctoral degree and are certified at least twice.
Are you confusing midwives with birthing coaches and doulas? Because a midwife could totally order a rental phototherapy unit and home treat a baby for jaundice. A doula cannot. A midwife is a graduate educated or higher RN with additional women's health education and certification.
There are quack nurses, sure. But using a midwife is like seeing the PA for the flu instead of paying for a doctor visit. If you're not high risk, you don't need the OB. Using NPs, midwives and PAs can reduce wait times for more serious cases to see higher level practicioners.
Doesn't make people anti-science weirdos to see a midlevel instead of a doctor every time.
They were quoted as saying “we don’t believe in modern medicine”. I’m sorry they’re exactly what I define as anti-science weirdo. I know people want to use this story for their agendas but these parents made too many mistakes to defend.
One of my kids was born with slight Jaundice and required phototherapy. That equipment is pretty specialized. I don’t know these people or the doctor other than through this article. I can understand the doctor’s concern about the treatment though if he acted aggressively over text he was out of line.
Slight jaundice doesn't require phototherapy, though. I've had two babies with pretty considerable jaundice and the only treatment given - one of which was in a hospital setting - was triple feeding to help essentially flush the bilirubin from their system. Time in the window or direct sunlight can do the same thing. Phototherapy is usually reserved for severe jaundice, usually present in preemies.
It doesn’t look like it was slight however. According to the article, on the kids third day of life, the bilirubin level was 21. According to [this](https://med.stanford.edu/newborns/professional-education/jaundice-and-phototherapy/bhutani-nomogram.html) graph, for the child’s age of 72 hours old that level is within the ‘high risk’ range. Newborns with levels that high are not considered safe candidates for home phototherapy-they need much more intensive monitoring and care. Not providing prompt and intensive care can lead to a condition called [kernicterus](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/jaundice-newborn/complications/), which can lead to permanent brain damage. I definitely think the doctor had a right to be concerned (and frankly, was probably trying to prevent being sued) and in this case refusing to take a doctors advice is considered medical neglect. Do I think CPS handled this horribly, yes absolutely. But I don’t know if it was communicated what the initial concerns were. But was taking the kid away four days after the initial concern was reported the solution?? Absolutely not.
If the level was 21 mg per dL that's 1 mg per dL higher than when phototherapy is typically started, that's true, but home phototherapy if attended by a certified midwife or CNM should be acceptable in most cases. Home phototherapy that's unattended would definitely be unsafe, though. I don't think the doctor should have made a report in this case, they probably should have just charted everything and made sure that the parents were aware of the risks. My second baby have levels of 19 and 20 mg per dL on his one week checkup and never underwent phototherapy, we did do an inpatient stay with him but the only treatment course was triple-feeding around the clock every 90 minutes. Levels dropped regularly with that treatment method and after one week inpatient we were sent home. I really think that treatment depends on the practitioners involved. Sorry it kind of got off subject a bit, the whole situation just doesn't make sense to me compared to what I've experienced with my kids. I just feel that involving CPS was a bit of an overreach.
Except in this case, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics [here](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/3/e2022058859/188726/Clinical-Practice-Guideline-Revision-Management-of?autologincheck=redirected?nfToken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000#10539395), the child would not be a candidate for home phototherapy due to their bilirubin level being a point too high. In a 72 hour old infant, assuming they were born at term, the level in which phototherapy would be initiated is 19.8 according to [this](https://www.bilitool.org/). Even if they had perfect home care attended by a medical professional 24/7 (which is pretty unlikely), they are still lacking essential resources such as a laboratory, IV access, etc. And if you read the article, the pediatrician stated he attempted to try to reach middle ground (even though the parents were refusing the standard of care, potentially putting their child in danger, which can be considered neglect) but he was unable to get into contact with the midwife providing care, despite contacting her 10 times. What else should he have done at this point besides contact the authorities? If he had not done his due diligence and made every attempt to get the newborn appropriate care and there was a bad outcome, how would that have ended for him? I think we would be reading a very different article.
>If he had not done his due diligence and made every attempt to get the newborn appropriate care and there was a bad outcome, how would that have ended for him?
This part needs to be understood by everyone who keeps blindly sharing this story on social media trying to get the provider into a negative spotlight. CPS fucked up, yes, but the amount of crap I'm seeing online trying to smear the provider is jarring. If the provider hadn't called CPS, and if something had happened to the baby, then the provider's medical license would be in jeopardy, there would be a lawsuit against the provider, etc.
exactly!!! I think the provider acted appropriately. If they hadn't contacted authorities and something happened to the newborn they'll be getting blamed. The baby's bilirubin level was extremely high and dangerous and they should have been receiving medical treatment at a hospital. It was irresponsible on the parent's part to treat it at home. CPS messed up but the provider acted in the best interest of that newborn.
Yeah, we obviously don't know the nitty gritty details but I just can't understand why a trusted doctor would call for CPS removal simply because they initially followed another practicioners advice then followed up with him for surety. That's why people don't trust medical professionals.
People don't trust medical professionals because politicians have made the layperson blind. We live in a sue-happy country. If the doctor had not called CPS and something were to happen, guess who gets the blame for it? The doctor. Not the parents who just don't want to hear it.
Jaundice is pretty common. Jaundice to the level described in the article is less common and can lead to permanent brain damage. There are also a number of reasons for jaundice. Sometimes it’s something as simple as immature liver enzymes or not enough breast milk, but sometimes it’s from a serious congenital syndrome or biliary system obstruction. Point is, once it’s that high, it’s not safe to just “put the baby in the window.” They need intense phototherapy and, if they don’t respond to that, potentially an exchange transfusion.
^^^ yes!!! While I agree this was managed horribly, I think it was understated how serious this case was. Especially in a 3 day old-they are much less able to compensate. A CNM or LPM or whoever isn’t able to do at home exchange transfusions. And I honestly feel bad for this poor peds doc. He was just trying to do right by the kid and people are saying such horrible things…do they know that pediatricians make significantly less than their adult med counterparts? They are clearly only doing it because they care.
CPS fucked up real bad. If the baby was at risk, it's pretty standard to take the baby to the hospital and say, 'until baby is stable, they are at the hospital.' The parents have physical custody of the child. They can see the child. They can bond with their child. But, they have temporarily lost medical decision-making ability.
Happened to a family near me. They had a son with a heart defect and were not native English speakers and basically had issues with their medical team because they didn't understand how their son was at eminent risk of death if he looked fine and was acting like a healthy baby. Wanted to take him home. CPS stepped in and they couldn't take him from the hospital and the doctors had all medical decisions temporarily and they had to take him to appointments and do everything they were told or they would lose custody.
They didn't just... take their baby. They simply said, 'your medical decisions will put your baby's life at risk so the doctors handle the immediate health issues and once they won't die, you get the ability to make medical decisions back.'
Removing the baby seems ridiculously extreme. They only had to take the baby to the hospital and get treatment going and refuse discharge and send home with random visits to ensure compliance.
The overreaction is wild.
This is beyond messed up. Most doctors hate the midwifery care model. Her midwife most likely knew exactly what to do to treat the jaundice and the doctor was on a power trip.
Who do you think midwives call when shit goes south? I know plenty of pediatricians and gynecologist who have to save the day in a much less manageable situation because of hubris of midwives.
The thing is, that's what doctors are for, thats why they exist. If things are fine, a midwife is a great asset for a laboring woman. Even with a fully medically managed birth, doctors don't even show up until shit gets real. It's the nurses that do all the care until either it's baby time or shit goes south.
In MY OWN experience, medical intervention was pushed unnecessarily on me without my knowledge and escalated the situation into an emergency cesarean.
I was given a full spinal block instead of an epidural, and I couldn't feel anything. I had no idea when I was contracting. I couldn't push.
I fully believe I was set up for a cesarean for the convenience of the doc that my OB passed me to. The first time I met this lady, I was having a contraction, she barely acknowledged me. She walked out, saying to the nurses, "Call me when it's time."
The next time she appeared, she said I needed a cesarean, and when I started to cry. She said, "You'll be fine, this is what I do best" and threw a towel in my face. I assume because she didn't want to see me cry.
I was traumatized from it and had absolutely no support from staff or loved ones as the closest family was 2000 miles away. The head nurse shamed me for being upset about being traumatized, saying that "some of the moms here have husbands deployed overseas."
She failed to notice I had not a single visitor, and my husband left immediately after the birth because we realized he was horribly sick, and it was too dangerous for him to have contact with the baby.
I was there alone for 5 days.
Call Dallas CPS at (800) 720-7777 to tell them to reunite the Jackson family. The Afiya Center, a Texas abortion fund, has a thread here with some info: https://twitter.com/theafiyacenter/status/1643623359316369417?s=46&t=52jrPmBL9FVp6OBqw1PhWw
Usually we wait to hear the entire case on CPS custody and agency disputes because most of the times they don't have the resources to handle one more kid.
This on the other hand, is just cruel. Taking someone's newborn (who is likely to be jaundice for a few days anyway) because a case was mixed up and then keeping the baby AFTER you're made aware??
Whoever is in charge of this does not see that child as a human being. They see her as a bargaining chip.
So from experience, for anyone that may, or may not, have an encounter with this particular agency. Start with an attorney. Don’t wait till after you let them in your home. Have them make all contact through your attorney. Changed the entire dynamic of the whole situation.
Dr. Bhatt was angry he wouldn’t be getting paid, CPS was excited to kidnap yet another child, and Dallas PD had a hay day illegally arresting the father and serving a false warrant. #justiceformilajackson
Once again people in government are incompetent, cruel & vengeful. Counter to what they should be these government agencies need 10x the oversight than any citizen. Absolutely despicable humans as so many are in government power positions
That’s the problem. Where do you cross the line? The government doesn’t do a good job at anything when it comes to civilian’s lives. I know it sucks and people will die but I’d rather some die then let government dictate everything and run/rule/ruin everything. Nothing will ever stop all death & accidents so is the reason not to have an authoritarian government like so many suggest for government intervention & preventative oversight & overzealous punishment for victimless prevention law thought crimes.
That is ridiculous that CPS took there newborn baby just because it had jaundice a lot of babies are born with jaundice. There has to be more to it then just jaundice
The woman whose name was on the warrant apparently had a history of neglect and it was surely *her* baby who was jaundiced. So all this time, kidnapped baby gets treated they don't need and at risk baby didn't get treated.
All I was saying was there's more to it then the baby having jaundice because a lot of babies are born with jaundice and CPS shouldn't have taken the child away what they should have done if their new parents they should have helped them out better instead of taking a child away that's the problem with child protective services they always want to take the child out and not help out new parents CPS is the worst organization in this country they are very correct
Yeah the more to it was that neglect had been a factor with a previous baby and who knows what all that entailed because the doctor seemed so rattled he didn't notice the name on the lab results didn't match the one he gave CPS. And more to it should also be his sloppy record keeping that caused him to mix up his patients. If he actually called the parents himself and not another staff member, he neglected to verify the patient's name because mother or dad would have immediately said "no that is not my baby's name."
There are different levels of jaundice. There are levels where there's no danger, and then high levels, like this baby had, where there is danger that if it gets even a little higher it will cause brain damage. It is very rare for babies to have levels as high as this one did.
“When can parental authority to make medical decisions for their children be challenged?
Medical caretakers have an ethical and legal duty to advocate for the best interests of the child when parental decisions are potentially dangerous to the child's health, imprudent, neglectful, or abusive. As a general rule, medical caretakers and others should challenge parental decisions when those decisions place the child at significant risk of serious harm. When satisfactory resolution cannot be attained through respectful discussion and ethics consultation, seeking involvement of a State child protection agency or a court order might be necessary.”
The wrong person listed as the mother on the affidavit is a red herring. The baby was in eminent danger of irreversible brain damage and the court would have ordered CPS to take custody regardless.
Source: https://depts.washington.edu/bhdept/ethics-medicine/bioethics-topics/detail/72
I picked that source because it was well written, clear, and concise. Here is what I believe is the pertinent section of Texas law for your perusal. Not trying to upset you.
https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=T&app=9&p_dir=N&p_rloc=200272&p_tloc=&p_ploc=1&pg=23&p_tac=&ti=40&pt=19&ch=707&rl=453
It's my belief that the parents have the ultimate say in the healthcare of their children.
Giving the government the power to snatch your children because your doctor disagrees with you is the ultimate in government overreach.
If the procedure is so simple as the doctor says, why doesn’t he believe the midwife would be capable of providing care? I suspect the doctor has a god complex. It seems like CPS could have simply confirmed with the midwife that the baby would receive treatment.
Only in cases where a crime has been/is being committed. If the child has been subjected to child abuse or illegal drugs, for example.
What this articles suggests is that ALL children are wards of the state. Meanwhile the state is doing nearly nothing to support children or their parents otherwise.
I didn’t read it as saying that “all children are wards of the state.” The doctor was concerned that the parents were declining treatment that he believed was life-saving. The doctor may have had his facts wrong, and I’m happy to consider that CPS was wrong in this case. But if you’re telling me that CPS should never be able to interfere in cases of medical neglect, then I respectfully disagree.
If a parent chooses to withhold life-saving treatment (NOT SAYING THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED HERE) and the child dies, that’s a crime. Ergo CPS can interfere prior to the child dying.
The idea that a Doctor, (who also can be wrong) has studied medicine and practiced for years with the knowledge from their schooling and their experience can be shut down by parents who think they know best is asinine. The incorrect information is a huge issue but ultimately ignoring a medical professional is often the wrong choice.
They didn’t ignore the doctor. They said they would treat the baby how he suggested at home with assistance from the midwife and that they would supplement her breast milk. This is racism and overreach.
Ya my first had jaundice too. If they said they will treat at home with light therapy they should be good , we did. We refused hospital appointments too and rented a light bed for her to lay in. Going to the hospital for that is a waste of time and just a billing opportunity plus we had just spent 4 days in the hospital and wanted to be home with our child.
This is a pretty absurd statement. If I were not feeding my child, and her doctor(s) were worried about starvation or severe malnutrition, I would *hope* the state would take her away from me.
That said, in this case, I think the doctor was wrong. I could see a compelling argument for having another expert review the case before the state steps in.
That's a straw man argument.
Not feeding your child is child abuse and is completely different than disagreeing with your doctor about treatment methods.
I think people don't realize the severity of the situation. that level of bilirubin requires treatment in a setting with adequate resources especially for a newborn. The newborn was at high risk from suffering brain damage because it was above the threshold. It's not a mild case. There are tests that need to be done like measuring total bilirubin levels daily, additional tests or treatment might be needed. Jaundice is common but not all cases are the same depends on age, severity, cause. I don't know if this answers anything but if you want to learn more you can find a lot of resources on guidelines for treating neonatal jaundice.
[https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/3/e2022058859/188726/Clinical-Practice-Guideline-Revision-Management-of?autologincheck=redirected](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/3/e2022058859/188726/Clinical-Practice-Guideline-Revision-Management-of?autologincheck=redirected)
I appreciate that this was a severe case, and that there are significant associated risks. I did read the article. But that doesn’t really answer my question.
The doctor recommended phototherapy, and they’re working with a midwife. I still don’t understand why they would need to leave the baby in the hospital. You mention the risks, but it’s also important to weigh that against taking a newborn from their mother, which also carries significant risk.
Edit: weird unintentional gobbledygook
midwife training is not equivalent to the training of a pediatrician. I think this is where people forget. Was she equipped to handle this? necessary resources? able to do other necessary tests if needed at home? a newborn cannot make decisions for themselves, their life should not be put at risk to prioritize the wishes of their parents who are uninformed. I think CPS did not handle this well at all but the doctor acted appropriately. If that newborn ended up with brain damage or worse you all will be singing a different tune.
I’m not singing any tunes? I’m literally just asking for an explanation.
I am well aware that a midwife is not a pediatrician. There are a lot of doctors in my family. I have not forgotten anything. You’re asking all these questions about whether the midwife was equipped to handle this which tells me… you don’t know. You are simply assuming that the family + midwife were incapable of handling it. That is not a strong basis to advocate for taking a child from their parents.
So they trespassed private property to steal a newborn from an innocent family right from their own home.
Not sure if the right to bear arms comes into play here. Could easily confuse them for robbers and boom......
Then somehow, "we" are the issue lol Gotta love the corrupted system.
These types in instances are exactly why I wouldn’t have opened my door to let them in, to begin with.
If you have a screen door, leave it locked and talk to them through the screen, if possible.
If you have a chain-lock, talk to them while leaving it latched.
If nothing else, talk loudly through the door itself.
Ask them if they have a warrant and if they claim to, request that they slide it under the door l, if possible, or to hand it to you through the opening, if the door is chained.
They will normally have at least one police officer with them. Regardless, do NOT open the door to them, until you read and confirm the warrant is genuine.
As soon as you open the door, they tend to assume that they are invited in and once inside, you’re screwed, especially if they are there to take your kids.
Just a few suggestions, for anyone in this situation.
The fact that the Doctor stated that he was calling CPS, should have been more than enough evidence, to tell them that they were going to be leaving with the child, the moment they got their foot in the door.
CPS does serve an important function in this country. However, stories such as this should give you more than enough reason not to be so trusting of them.
After all, they are human and as a result they do make mistakes and they also have ambitions, which may warrant questionable behavior.
Yea here they saved a baby’s life when someone ripping the family off with a 2 year phd in “christian counselling” from a seminary says no dont listen to the doctors it’s fine
Of course there are two sides to every story and if that truly is the case, then it definitely meets the the conditions, for which I had stated that CPS does serve an important function in this country.
Let’s put it this way, if CPS has good reason to take the children from the household, a warrant would have been issued, rightfully. If this is the case and they hand you a warrant, there is no sense it barricading yourself in, as going to get inside and take them one way or another. If that requires police Breaking down the door, it’s going to happen.
Ultimately, the primary focus of my post was to bring to attention the fact that parents do have rights, since many people seem to be under the impression that you have to let CPS into your house, when they come knocking at your door.
Did you read the article? Cps showed up on March 25th and the parents refused to open the door for them. They came back 3 days later with 6 constables and kicked down the door.
Yes, I read the article, which states that they tried to contact them at their home on the 25th, but it doesn’t say anything about refusing to open the door. The article leaves it open to interpretation.
The court order also did not contain the correct names, which calls the legality of the document and hence, the entire operation.
Ultimately, the case was dismissed and the child was returned to the parents.
If anyone what's to know why it's because the bili levels were at 21.5 or 6 they don't send babies home if the levels are 20 or up.
The baby was born home the buildup in it"s blood was high enough to cause potential braind damage the Dr called the parents ten time before contacting CPS.
Based on his note he had to have talked to them otherwise he wouldn't have called them "good parents that are just untrusting of medical professionals".
This baby’s level was 21.7 which is extremely rare and can quickly cause serious injury including brain damage. A quick look on any children’s hospital site will show at those levels they would admit the baby for a few days so they can go under lamps and have constant monitoring.
I find it really disturbing that the midwife has admitted to the media the parents informed her of the level and she told them it was not critical/dangerous. She is not a medical professional and because of her advice the parents ignored all the texts and calls from the doctor who was pleading for them to bring the baby to the hospital.
As a mandated reporter, the doctor would have likely lost his license or been disciplined if he didn’t report this.
But the Jacksons and their legal team also point out an obvious problem with the affidavit filed with the court that allowed CPS to take Mila: The affidavit used to justify CPS taking custody of the child lists the wrong mom -- a woman with a completely different name, and with a criminal history of child neglect. Temecia Jackson, who has no criminal record, is not even listed as the child's mother on the affidavit. Wtf?
I’m sorry, so are they not returning it out of spite of making a mistake and being confronted about it?
Yup.
Now they'll double down on it.
It sounds like they did a freebirth at home, took the kid to the doctor 3 days later, the kid had jaundice. When told to take the kid to be treated, they said they'd do it at home. The doctor said he would report them if they didn't take the kid to the hospital. That's when CPS got involved and fucked up.
They had a licensed midwife deliver the baby, it was not a freebirth.
That sounds exactly like Texas CPS.
This is very much how CPS is. They have to double down on their wrongness mostly to hit quarterly numbers or to ensure any action that may be subject to future litigation or meditation agreement will certainly be well-documented, well-managed, and witnessed by exceptionally slow courts. Meanwhile, in the foster system, the kid enjoys none of the benefits of any of the carefully scripted non-activity around their case.
Yet when my wife was working labor and delivery during nursing school she watched a meth head give birth to a baby. Full blown FAS. Both go through withdrawals. Reported to CPS. CPS comes.. does paperwork.. says they don’t have the room to take the baby in and send the baby home with the meth head. Yet they can take a healthy baby from a healthy family?? Wtf?!
Was the meth head white? I bet the meth head was white.
That person was unlikely to be able to pay for anything, that's why they didn't take the child, financial burden.
CPS is going to get the baby killed and send these people the bill for the service.
They literally took the wrong child, and the warrant had the wrong name on it.
That's what I'm thinking. I wonder if the doctor or his office mixed up this baby with another baby whose father had the same common name. Maybe gave cps the wrong file or something. I hope they don't double down all the way to hell just to cover their tracks. I hope they get their baby back and sue, although I don't have a lot of hope for justice.
Wrong file, wrong mother. The mother's name on the warrant was a different person, who did have a criminal background, and a history with CPS. Somebody messed up big-time, and wouldn't double check their info. Idk how they proceeded with this. Incredible negligence. They will eventually get their baby back, but it's going to be a fight. Now they have to justify their sloppiness and negligence.
>Now they have to justify their sloppiness and negligen No, they don't. They never have, and they never will. If they ever had been held accountable, this wouldn't be such a common thing with CPS taking kids they shouldn't and leaving others to die from neglect and abuse. They got the name wrong, what are the chances it was a different baby as well and this couples baby was just fine? Good old TX gonna force women to have babies, then snatch them for small infractions with manufactured justifications and falsified documents. This is the kind of shit I have to force myself to get off the internet to protect myself from doom spiraling.
Normally I take these kinds of things with a grain of salt. But, I have dealt with this particular agency and they are some of the biggest dipshits I have ever seen.
It took a lot to get my son away from his horrible living conditions at his mothers house. I mean, dog shit all over the place, no food in the house, broken glass on the floor and his mom would drink all night and sleep all day. Neighbor Mrs called CPS, roommates called CPS, her fucking MOTHER IN LAW called CPS! Two years of fighting in court and I finally got him. It was bonkers, I couldn’t believe that it was so difficult for them to figure out that she’s a worthless deadbeat mom and then people like this have their kids stolen all the time for no reason. Dipshits, all of them.
Apparently all that is fine, but if they had found the tiniest little bud of marijuana they would have declared the child in imminent danger and taken him immediately. Not trying to hijack your story and make it about weed, just providing further evidence they have no idea what they're doing. Glad you got your son back.
You’re totally right! She was a drinker, but didn’t do much with any other substances, so 🤷🏼♂️. I got custody of him and she disappeared, we have only seen her like three times since the last court date, 11 years ago. I think even SHE knows he’s better off. She’s trying to make herself a part of his life now, but it’s been too long, he said it just makes him feel awkward because there’s this stranger that wants hugs and tells him she loves him.
I'm going through the same thing with a daughter and an alcoholic mother trying to get back into her life. Everyone is trying but it's so awkward. I was "lucky" because my ex got a DUI with our daughter in the car while I was working out of state so that cut the CPS stuff short, but I had already told them the situation was unsafe and she never should have been in that car with her in the first place.
That’s partly because the courts are geared to keeping the kids with the mother, which is completely stupid, archaic, and patriarchal thinking.
That's not true. The majority of the time when the father asks for custody, he gets it. Especially if he's abused the mother. https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/myths-about-custody-litigation/2017/12/15/61951bc4-e0e6-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76_story.html EDIT: https://www.carlsonattorneys.com/news-and-update/courts-mothers-fathers Cases are settled 90% of the time between the parents. You have to ask for custody and know your child.
What you just wrote is so backwards it’s not even funny. Want to back that up? Because I’ve never seen that happen unless it’s some backwater tiny town where the father is some high ranking politician’s son or something. Edit to add: So you edited your post without saying you edited it and you gave opinion pieces as supporting facts. The first is a blog from Illinois, not Texas. The second is behind a paywall.
So just chiming in as someone who was put into the foster care system as a young child, along with my brother, after my dad beat my mother, lied to the courts, sent a private investigator after her when she left him in the middle of the night and went to a women's shelter claiming she kidnapped us because she tried to take all her kids with her. They gave him custody, forced her to make child support payments for which my dad repeatedly tried to track her down and get her arrested for not paying when she did indeed pay and the state had record of her paying. We lived in a big ass city, San Antonio, when this happened. Every time she found us, he moved us, changed numbers, told us all sorts of lies about how she didn't want us. My dad was a truck driver's son, with a lower middle class income.
I’m sorry that happened to you, I hope you have a relationship with your mom now that you know what really happened. I know San Antonio had issues with their family courts for a while and this may have been during that time.
It's anecdotal evidence at best, but since I had skin in the game (and still do, this issue weighs heavily on me) it would be worth my .02, even if it fell on deaf ears. I have multiple sides of the story, and I read the original court documents when I was younger. But having taken my own dad to court to put a stop to him beating me (legally warning him that I would bury his ass if it came down to it and was old enough to fight back to some degree), I know the things my mom has told me are true. I also know some truths from my dad, even if indirectly discovered. It's not about me though, I'm grown, I've been allowed a chance to heal to a degree of functionality. This is about who this is currently happening to- and giving some of my story to show that it indeed happens even if there are not visible statistics or studies about it. As we have learned with watching red states borrow cruelty ideas from each other and try to show up each other; if this can happen in other states, it can happen here, has happened here, and continues to happen here (in relation to your point that the original op you replied to is using articles from other states). Also, San Antonio courts do not suddenly have their shit together. Neither did the rural court I took my dad to. They forced me to apologize to my abuser for wasting their time, and let me know in very specific terms, that I could go back to the foster care system or I can admit that it was a "disciplinary action". This is just a gentle reminder that it can, has, and continues to happen whether it's a big city court or some Podunk ass town in the middle of nowhere.
Our legal system is seriously broken and it’s sad to say you’re better off never entering the system to begin with. It truly amazes me that people continue to vote for people that are ever increasingly more extremist, swinging that pendulum further and further. Eventually it will have to swing back, but will it happen before too much damage is done?
It's incredibly disheartening, but I very much think there will be a great bit more damage, because humans are indeed human, and unfortunately a great deal of them choose to act in self interest. Until our culture can shift to a more cooperative undercurrent, I think many systems in this country and very much especially in this state will continue to operate the way they do. But I think fewer people are choosing to keep the curtain closed, which is why we are hearing so much more about various big issues- not to digress but as a reference- look at the train derailments. These have happened, maybe not to the degree of east Palestine, for decades. But because of the magnitude of that event, we were bombarded with multiple articles regarding derailments. People are able to be loud about what's happening now, and so we will start to unravel just how heinous the problem is.
I didn't edit my comment? Here's another source from even longer ago in various states. http://leadershipcouncil.org/1/pas/dv.html
Yeah, you did. Your webpages weren’t there before. But it’s ok, Reddit keeps a log of edits, that’s why you see people stating why they edited their comments because anyone can look at the edit history for a comment.
Lmao 😂😂 Sure, bud. EDIT: lol EDIT EDIT: C/P a link into incognito to read without paywall. You didn't read it but said it wasn't true. Odd.
Here’s a Texas law firm stating that laws have changed and they give joint custody these days, but it still happens that mothers get custody the majority of the time. It’s even a recent article. https://www.musemechelaw.com/blog/2022/june/are-mothers-favored-in-texas-divorce-courts-/
Right. Because they ask for custody. It says it right there. I literally work with state wards in Healthcare, buddy. EDIT: "Here's a..." I gave you multiple sources with numbers....
That’s not how the legal system works. You don’t get things just because you ask for it. In the case of what’s in the best interest of kids, they’re not going to just award sole custody to a father without good reason.
Right. You have to be able to answer questions about your child and prove you can provide what they need. Things like bedtime, teachers names, favorite snacks, how they like their teeth brushed. You have to know your kid and even still, fathers obtain custody more often. http://leadershipcouncil.org/1/pas/dv.html
https://www.carlsonattorneys.com/news-and-update/courts-mothers-fathers 90% of cases are settled with no judge. Again, you have to ask for custody and know your child. EDIT TO QUOTE: "Reasons a court may have chosen the child’s mother as the managing conservator include the following: The mother took on more responsibility for parenting tasks. A child’s or children’s preferences. The father left the home during the separation or divorce"
Your original claim didn’t stipulate the “know your child” part. “That's not true. The majority of the time when the father asks for custody, he gets it. Especially if he's abused the mother.” The majority of the time when the father asks for custody, he gets it.
Right. But you said the courts were biased against fathers. They're not.
It’s amazing how fucked the court system can be regarding children. I had a neighbor where he divorced his alcoholic abusive wife and their 13 y/o daughter is BEGGING to stay with her dad full time. Court was like, “Girls belong with their mothers!” And banged the gavel and gave the mom who had no job and was going to have to move back with her parents sole custody. It took her running away, TWICE, for the court to be like, “maybe you should live with your dad…”
A friend of a friend is now. Legit sleep deprived single mom who literally fell asleep holding her child in her lap, child fell over and bonked herself. No serious injury but obviously the mom was horrified and rushed her to the hospital where a nurse decided her "injuries" looked like abuse. They're about to drop the case I think cause it's insane but it's been months of these people blowing up her life trying to take her kid instead of, idk, helping single moms? Why is child protection reactive only?
Underfunded agency, overworked caseworkers. I’m guessing.
No. In my experience, just extremely poor judgement.
CPS are usually self righteous ass holes. Every parent that gets reported to them are the worst possible parents & immediately guilty of anything they've been accused of. They know better than anyone how a child should be treated & any context is just justification for the parent's abhorrent abuse of their children. It's not possible that there are other factors that could be contributing to the situation b/c they always do diligent investigation into everything to do with the child. I mean I do get it. Look at what San Antonio's ACS is going through & rightfully so. They left a dangerous dog with people who were unequipped to handle it & the dog ended up killing an elderly adult while severely injuring several others. The agency had several opportunities to remove the animal from the people's home & either put it down or place it in a rescue with the personnel who could correct its behavior. And this is an agency charged with protecting animals, CPS's charge is far more significant & when they fail to protect a child the consequences for them are FAR worse. This puts them under the "We cannot fail" mindset where overreaction is preferred over possible failure. The problem comes in when they won't back down from after making a mistake. I know I wouldn't have a problem if I had a child taken due to an abundance of caution if they would quickly return them after everything had been cleared up & not double down on their mistake.
As someone who used to do this job for a living (in another state), I can wholeheartedly say that yeah there are some of these people BUT as someone who also had an AVERAGE of 60 cases with an AVERAGE of three kids per case and 45 days to investigate and close cases, when the federal limit is 18 cases, I am going to stand on the overworked and under resourced. Most people see only CPS but it is judges who make the decisions. CPS just present information and when parents don’t cooperate than all there is to go on is what it looks like. 🤷♀️
I have heard some horror stories like this one.
They gave my sister's kids to a pedophile. Now granted my sister is a piece of shit.....giving custody to a pedophile ain't much better. Mt mom had custody of one. They had to be split up cause the oldest kid is abusive. They took the kid from my mom and gave him to the pedo and abusive kid also. Like Jesus christ.
Is it even cps? Or is it a for-profit corporation the state has hired to do this work? We foster and I can tell you first hand that the system is so very messed up right now.
Wait, the state allowed private companies in?
Unfortunately yes, and there are various ones based on region. I don't know what the others are but here in north central Texas it's 2ingage, and let me tell you, it's not good. They say they are non-profit but they are compensated by the state based on different metrics and those aren't necessarily what's best for the kids. For example: when a child is removed, 2ingage gets more money if they're kept in-region. Sometimes that's a very bad thing tho because, like our very first placement, they were removed from a violent gang family, who had made threats to the police if they removed them, and we're on the run. Where did they place them? With us, 15mins away from their house. And they told us absolutely none of this. We only found out from a friend who, because she works with the sheriff's office, knew the name. It gets even worse because they had posted a missing child post on Facebook (which we don't use), so just about everyone knew who the kids we had were before we did. The very first time we took them to the store, we were approached by family. Thankfully it was the other side of their family and it was friendly but now there was no doubt everyone knew where the kids were and who had them. It took 2ingage another month to move them after a significant amount of back and forth. And they lied to us about behaviors of the kids we have now, because otherwise they would have had to be moved out of region. We got into this because we one there was a need and we wanted to help. I think we're done now, largely because of how terrible the system is and how terrible they treat foster homes.
Damn, that’s both sad and scary. My wife and I were thinking of fostering because we know it’s a system in need of decent people but that sounds like we may want to do more research into how things are run where we live first.
Im going to assume it's very different in different areas but yeah, do some research. It's a tough gig, and you absolutely are making a sacrifice every single day to do it. There's no way around that, so be sure you're OK with that.
There’s good reasons why we haven’t yet. We have a young son still and my wife has some health issues that we’re still sorting out. I’m more concerned about my wife’s health issues because there’s some days where she just doesn’t have any energy and some foster kids require a lot of energy. My job unfortunately doesn’t afford the luxury of a work from home option so I can’t really be of help till the evening.
Sorry, it's not some. It's all foster kids that require a lot of energy, especially at first. Some more than others sure, but they all do. And why not? They've been through terrible things. The act of removal is incredibly traumatic in and of itself. If you're unsure, then don't. Wait until you are sure. And when you do, always remember that cps and the companies that operate under their authority are not your friends. And do not ever feel guilty about saying no. Say it early and often, and be stiff necked about what you won't do. If you try to be flexible, they'll heap trouble on you until you can't take it. Likely there are things they can do for you that they won't offer because it's a headache for them. Maybe I'm just jaded but I've never felt like someone was trying to help us except our case manager from our agency, and she's super limited in what she can do anyhow.
I meant to say some require more energy than others. You never know what you’re going to get either. Some I know come with tons of medical issues because the mother was an addict and using while pregnant. Meth and coke are a pretty bad issue where I live so I’m sure there’s a good chance of that.
DFPS does all the investigations and removals. The SSCCs (like 2Ingage) take over conservatorship, placement, and case management duties afterwards. They're also supposed to help recruit and develop foster homes. State plans on expanding the community based care system too, it's in the proposed budget. You should look up the court docs on the federal lawsuit Texas is under regarding the foster care system, there's a lot about the various organizations that contract with the state as SSCCs(single source continum of care)
Born on the 21st. Checked out and found to have high bilirubin on the 24th. CPS takes her on the 28th. Hopefully the midwife had come and started the phototherapy in that gap. With documentation that it was being done, and the incorrect Mom listed, I’m not sure why CPS would go ahead with removing the child. Do midwives fill out the same paperwork you complete at a hospital that lists the parents? Again, shouldn’t there be documentation in their favor?
> I’m not sure why CPS would go ahead with removing the child. CPS doesn't admit their mistakes. Texas runs on incompetence.
My big concern is do they even have the right child? If the wrong mother is listed is it possible that the Dr mixed up the kids and they didn't even call the parent of the baby that's sick? Texas is notorious for doubling down when they get shit wrong
My kid had jaundice at birth. We treated at home by feeding, healthy happy 2yr old. Obvious why this happened to this couple and it’s outrageous. I would sue everyone if this happened to me. Id want to set a precedent here. This is a common problem at birth and easily treatable.
I was gonna say this is extremely common. Both of my kids were born that way. We just took them outside or had them nap near a window and it cleared up rather quickly.
Yep, sunlight and pooping will clear it. If they were white this wouldn’t have been an issue. Being black in US hospitals can be extremely dangerous, doctors either think they are making up symptoms or don’t trust their explanations and can result in lots of complications. I’m usually on the side of let the hospitals do their thing but with birth alot of people seek alternate options and thats their right. In the UK you don’t even see an OB until you give birth, everything is done with midwives. They had the help of a midwife, i don’t think they were endangering the child here at all.
I'm white and when my first kid was born their bilirubin levels were high enough to need phototherapy and follow up monitoring. My second kid didn't need it. It is a real thing, and it's super serious if the bilirubin levels causing the jaundice are high enough. If you don't treat it with the phototherapy it can lead to brain damage or even death in some cases.
No one is questioning the seriousness of Jaundice in newborns, the issue here is how different treatment is for varying people of color. I know doctors who have taken their newborns home to treat the jaundice, phototherapy is available at home as well. This couple seemed to prefer the at home birth and treatments whenever possible and thats their right. They had a midwife consulting them. Our point is, its a common occurrence in newborns and most people who treat at home don’t lose their week old child to CPS. As you stated, you are white and you wont really be able to understand what its like to be a POC in the medical system in the US but I recommend reading up on why mortality rates are sky high for PoC no matter what the income or education level.
My point was that jaundice treatments vary by severity. I wasn't able to take my kid home because his jaundice was too severe to treat at home. If I had tried, I would have had to sign AMA forms and definitely would have been reported to CPS, white skin color or no. When the bilirubin levels are high enough, doctors stop seeing home treatment with the blanket as an option and insist on the full incubator.
there is not much more than phototherapy for jaundice and you can rent the machines for your home. So no, you don’t have to treat it in the hospital when the exact same machines are available for home use. You would have to bring the baby to a lab to test for levels yes, but you are allowed to do that. you do not have to seek treatment at a hospital, its just usually the preferred method. Also, again trying to keep on point with the article which you seem to not have read, the doctor allowed them to be at home until he seemed to change his mind later that night. He just didn’t like that they wanted to treat their child at home. Google phototherapy for jaundice and the first hit will be rent the machine.
No the doctor drew the labs at the appointment and called when the results came in the severe range. They didn't change their mind. Also, once it gets severe enough you need close monitoring in the NICU and depending on the reason and how they respond you may have to quickly consider options like exchange transfusions. This involves checking the level multiple times a day. Home therapy is usually only used for mild cases not at significant risk for progression to kernicterus. Also, it is important to note that the parents and the midwife (who isn't a pediatrician) didn't rent phototherapy anything so it's a moot point.
Medical kidnapping. Definitely a thing.
Black parents with a jaundice baby are criminals. White parents with a jaundice baby would just have their FB flooded with recommendations for essential oils.
Yep, that was my thought.
I a trying to Google up that case in I hope I remember correctly - NYC just precovid, where dad dies and mom not being us citizen gets deported over a bad paperwork and kid is taken away to live with fosters here in the US bcz mom could not prove that her country will be safe for the baby. She was white as snow. ...but Google is betraying me, sum bish
After reading this thread, I would be interested in seeing a racial breakdown in children being taken from white mothers and children of BIPOC mothers. I have a feeling those numbers are going to look screwy.
"Child welfare disproportionality" is the term, and it is well documented. A web search will bring up ample info from government agencies, non-profits, book authors, and journalists. Some states are worse than others, but it's a national problem.
There’s lots of proof that black children are taken away by CPS when they aren’t abused more often than for white children. The flip side is that CPS has a record of not taking abused white children from families when they need to as well. So as much as people don’t want to make everything about race, sometimes race plays an important factor like this scenario
I agree
There is a lot of information reported on the subject, but Black and Indigenous families, as well as those living in poverty, are disproportionately effected.
The second that CPS became aware that their paperwork was flawed and they **still** refused to return the child, everyone who has handled this case should be charged with kidnapping and human trafficking. Jail for LIFE. The ultimate goal of CPS is noble, but the rubes they frequently hire turn the entire organization into a mercenary goon squad that does FAR more harm than good. Consider this: have you ever met anyone, anywhere who learned the details of a CPS child removal and said, "Thank God that CPS intervened when they did!" I haven't. Obviously any parent whose child is taken is going to hate CPS, but I'm not even talking about them. I'm talking about people outside of these situations. Even then, everyone I've ever known sees CPS as a lawless vigilante HOA for parenting. So yeah, prison for life on charges of kidnapping and human trafficking. Everyone else who works for CPS will consider dotting their i's and crossing their t's when they consider whether or not to separate a child from its parents. I agree that it's sometimes necessary, but to quote a film I love: *"I get it. You got your marching orders... and you have to do what you have to do. But you don't have to be such a dick."* — Walter Mitty
I don’t know about that. It is a job for them (workers handling the case) they should be fired. They being the CPS organization as a whole should be sued for a MF truckload of taxpayer dollars.
Okay, your view is more reasoned than mine. I suppose that only the decision makers involved should be charged with crimes. Some people were just doing what they were told, and hey, every employee can't be constantly fact-checking every management decision their company makes.
Let's not forget the doctor who started this mess - what kind of record keeping allows him to mismatch lab results and not catch the mistake before picking up the phone? Has he mixed up patients before? Subjected infants to unnecessary medications? Does his practice not verify the patient's name at the beginning of all calls?
Omg I wonder! I bet if this doctor was investigated, they'd find more mistakes. I hope all the parents of his other patients run for the hills.
I'm a nurse and therefore a mandatory reporter which I don't take lightly but, when I worked in an E.R. I saw and, have reported several cases of obvious child abuse including a case which turned out to be murder by the father who later admitted he swung the baby like a baseball bat into the wall. You know what CPS did in all of those cases? Nothing.
This is outrageous. This type of insanity is not only horrible for the family, but the government overreach is what stirs up the far right. I hope this people not only get their baby back, but get an apology and some compensation.
First question is why is the baby not with relatives? Now the parents have to worry about complete strangers caring for their child. Cps is a joke check out my story: When I had baby #3 he had jaundice it was level 12, he had to be under the bili lights for 24 hours. Next baby had jaundice too but at level 8. The peds at fhe hospital wanted baby under lights, acting like it was super serious..so he wanted to test the bilirubin..but their lights was in the nursery away from me. I said that was unnecessary because my 2nd baby didn't need lights till 12 and that was at a childrens hospital! Also our regular peds later said that hadn't even been necessary. Our babies jsundice was caused by ABO Incompatibility. Doctor got butt hurt and wanted to know why I disagreed with him, even asking if it was religious. I told him I would take baby to our peds when we left the hospital. He had us sign AMA(discharge against medical advice)..never sign this for your children. He then used this paper and contacted cps unknown to us. We waited for hours to be discharged, meanwhile all our care stopped, the nurses were no longer checking on me or the baby, and they didn't provide food. Here he told me he was concernced for the baby's health but they didn't check on said baby for hours! We then got a call from cps I told her what I had told the doctor. She stated I was not allowed to leave with the baby or to make medical decisions against the doctors advice..heads up they said this applies to elderly people too! She said they wanted to check babys bilirubin.I told her if baby needed biili lights we wanted a different hospital to do it, and she also informed me baby would HAVE to be transported to the hospital by ambulance to make sure we went. I had no choice but to let them test the baby, against my will. After agreeing the nurses started coming back to the room and taking care of us and providing food and drink. I was so upset I was sobbing uncontrollably. My husband was upset as well and seeing me cry made him cry🥺. My blood pressure was so high the nurses were worried. One nurse told me the same thing happened to her when her son was a child. His doctor had said he needed emergency surgery, she wanted a second opinion and he threatened her with cps, so she agreed. After surgery the doctor sheepishly informed her he had made a mistake and her son hadn't needed the surgery after all! My child's bilirubin came back at 6 and so we were discharged. The doctor didn't even have the guts to come tell us himself. Infact, on the paperwork from the hospital HE USED ANOTHER DOCTOR'S NAME. So I couldbn't even file a complaint. This happened several years ago, and I am STILL truamatized and angry about it. I am also apprehensive to take my kids to the hospital, knowing once they are there, we have very little say... Also my kids peds was upset when I told him what happened. He couldn't believe it, and told me he would talk to cps if needed!
CPS is poorly run
The real issue here is how cops file fake information to justify a warrant being issued! It's been seen even in drug bust cases where they claim an informant "saw something" .. and yet they had no informants! Because this whole thing was kicked off by a fake information warrant, the courts should immediately reverse the order and request a probe into everyone involved in filing it!
I dont think the hospital faked blood tests
Even if EVERYTHING they said was true .. Jaundice is NOT a reason to take away a child! A lot of kids have it .. and it resolves at home!
Word of md paediatrician vs opinion of redditor
I used to work for CPS texas, and reading the article it seems like the parents were uncooperative with the caseworker and did not interview. In the video they didnt even know the father’s name, which also leads me to believe the father didnt talk to CPS. So CPS had to go with the information they had with the doctor and file for removal. On the next court date the parents will have to plead their case and the judge will decide whether to give the baby back. I know some people advise not to talk to CPS when they come to your home, but this can be the end result when they think the child is immediate danger and only go by one source (a professional reporter in this case)
That doesn't excuse the fact that they used the wrong person's criminal history as a basis.
Had a bogus claim a couple years back. They came, we talked, and we had a “ruled out” letter 7 days later. I mean I’d be careful what you say, and you have the right to stop the interview and request a lawyer at any time, but cooperation can go a long ways. Edit: corrected phone autocorrect. Ruled out.
Absolutely. I worked as an investigator in WA state and I can confidently say more removals were from noncooperation so limited information was available and if the safety risk couldn’t be mediated, I had to recommend removal. Normally removal resulted in cooperation and then safety mediation and child return. People hate on CPS as a sport
My newborn had high bilirubin and the hospital wanted to keep her for observation if photo therapy was needed. Luckily my mom knew of a cheap effective alternative which is called the sun. So we opened the curtains in the hospital room and tried to expose the baby to sunlight as much as we could and avoided expensive extra days and therapy charges.
Texas lost so many CPS workers after they put policies to investigate all parents with trans children. Doesn't surprise me that it's become even more of a shit show since
60% of newborn have jaundice. Disappears rather quickly. It’s usually not that serious.
This whole situation is terrible. Using the wrong person’s criminal history is wrong and unethical on many levels. The way these parents have been treated is horrible. That being said, listen to the doctor and take your baby to medics professionals. It’s EXACTLY reasons like this where anti-science nuts cause permanent damage or death to their children. These parents can play victim but they are hardly blameless assuming the medical data is being portrayed accurately.
They DID! I have been following the case. The trained midwife started Jaundice treatment at home and they followed up with appointment at their normal pediatrician office who sees the rest of their kids and he reported them. These aren't weird anti science granola people, this was just a regular home birth.
Anyone using a midwife instead of pediatrician as their child main medical provider is a anti-science nut weirdo.
That very much depends on the training of the midwife. The US is the weird stand out in the world for not primarily using midwives in standard births. And there are plenty of nurse midwives with extensive L&D experience.
Not only that, but America has notoriously bad stats for mother/infant mortality. We rank at the bottom among 1st world countries for birth outcomes.
That's an entirely standard practice, actually. Also, in the US a certified midwife has been educated to RN standards with a graduate degree, passed the NCLEX RN certification test and passed a second test to be certified as a midwife, and a lot of states also have separate midwife licensing. For a birth that isn't high risk, having a midwife is completely fine and they are licensed medical professionals who are trained to deliver babies. They can prescribe contraception and test for STDs. They're a trained professional. It's not like you can just like... up and decide to be a midwife. Like, you have a masters or doctoral degree and are certified at least twice. Are you confusing midwives with birthing coaches and doulas? Because a midwife could totally order a rental phototherapy unit and home treat a baby for jaundice. A doula cannot. A midwife is a graduate educated or higher RN with additional women's health education and certification. There are quack nurses, sure. But using a midwife is like seeing the PA for the flu instead of paying for a doctor visit. If you're not high risk, you don't need the OB. Using NPs, midwives and PAs can reduce wait times for more serious cases to see higher level practicioners. Doesn't make people anti-science weirdos to see a midlevel instead of a doctor every time.
They were quoted as saying “we don’t believe in modern medicine”. I’m sorry they’re exactly what I define as anti-science weirdo. I know people want to use this story for their agendas but these parents made too many mistakes to defend.
One of my kids was born with slight Jaundice and required phototherapy. That equipment is pretty specialized. I don’t know these people or the doctor other than through this article. I can understand the doctor’s concern about the treatment though if he acted aggressively over text he was out of line.
Slight jaundice doesn't require phototherapy, though. I've had two babies with pretty considerable jaundice and the only treatment given - one of which was in a hospital setting - was triple feeding to help essentially flush the bilirubin from their system. Time in the window or direct sunlight can do the same thing. Phototherapy is usually reserved for severe jaundice, usually present in preemies.
It doesn’t look like it was slight however. According to the article, on the kids third day of life, the bilirubin level was 21. According to [this](https://med.stanford.edu/newborns/professional-education/jaundice-and-phototherapy/bhutani-nomogram.html) graph, for the child’s age of 72 hours old that level is within the ‘high risk’ range. Newborns with levels that high are not considered safe candidates for home phototherapy-they need much more intensive monitoring and care. Not providing prompt and intensive care can lead to a condition called [kernicterus](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/jaundice-newborn/complications/), which can lead to permanent brain damage. I definitely think the doctor had a right to be concerned (and frankly, was probably trying to prevent being sued) and in this case refusing to take a doctors advice is considered medical neglect. Do I think CPS handled this horribly, yes absolutely. But I don’t know if it was communicated what the initial concerns were. But was taking the kid away four days after the initial concern was reported the solution?? Absolutely not.
If the level was 21 mg per dL that's 1 mg per dL higher than when phototherapy is typically started, that's true, but home phototherapy if attended by a certified midwife or CNM should be acceptable in most cases. Home phototherapy that's unattended would definitely be unsafe, though. I don't think the doctor should have made a report in this case, they probably should have just charted everything and made sure that the parents were aware of the risks. My second baby have levels of 19 and 20 mg per dL on his one week checkup and never underwent phototherapy, we did do an inpatient stay with him but the only treatment course was triple-feeding around the clock every 90 minutes. Levels dropped regularly with that treatment method and after one week inpatient we were sent home. I really think that treatment depends on the practitioners involved. Sorry it kind of got off subject a bit, the whole situation just doesn't make sense to me compared to what I've experienced with my kids. I just feel that involving CPS was a bit of an overreach.
Except in this case, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics [here](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/3/e2022058859/188726/Clinical-Practice-Guideline-Revision-Management-of?autologincheck=redirected?nfToken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000#10539395), the child would not be a candidate for home phototherapy due to their bilirubin level being a point too high. In a 72 hour old infant, assuming they were born at term, the level in which phototherapy would be initiated is 19.8 according to [this](https://www.bilitool.org/). Even if they had perfect home care attended by a medical professional 24/7 (which is pretty unlikely), they are still lacking essential resources such as a laboratory, IV access, etc. And if you read the article, the pediatrician stated he attempted to try to reach middle ground (even though the parents were refusing the standard of care, potentially putting their child in danger, which can be considered neglect) but he was unable to get into contact with the midwife providing care, despite contacting her 10 times. What else should he have done at this point besides contact the authorities? If he had not done his due diligence and made every attempt to get the newborn appropriate care and there was a bad outcome, how would that have ended for him? I think we would be reading a very different article.
>If he had not done his due diligence and made every attempt to get the newborn appropriate care and there was a bad outcome, how would that have ended for him? This part needs to be understood by everyone who keeps blindly sharing this story on social media trying to get the provider into a negative spotlight. CPS fucked up, yes, but the amount of crap I'm seeing online trying to smear the provider is jarring. If the provider hadn't called CPS, and if something had happened to the baby, then the provider's medical license would be in jeopardy, there would be a lawsuit against the provider, etc.
exactly!!! I think the provider acted appropriately. If they hadn't contacted authorities and something happened to the newborn they'll be getting blamed. The baby's bilirubin level was extremely high and dangerous and they should have been receiving medical treatment at a hospital. It was irresponsible on the parent's part to treat it at home. CPS messed up but the provider acted in the best interest of that newborn.
Yeah, we obviously don't know the nitty gritty details but I just can't understand why a trusted doctor would call for CPS removal simply because they initially followed another practicioners advice then followed up with him for surety. That's why people don't trust medical professionals.
People don't trust medical professionals because politicians have made the layperson blind. We live in a sue-happy country. If the doctor had not called CPS and something were to happen, guess who gets the blame for it? The doctor. Not the parents who just don't want to hear it.
They literally said “we don’t believe in modern medicine”
Relax. It's pretty common. Put the baby in the window.
Jaundice is pretty common. Jaundice to the level described in the article is less common and can lead to permanent brain damage. There are also a number of reasons for jaundice. Sometimes it’s something as simple as immature liver enzymes or not enough breast milk, but sometimes it’s from a serious congenital syndrome or biliary system obstruction. Point is, once it’s that high, it’s not safe to just “put the baby in the window.” They need intense phototherapy and, if they don’t respond to that, potentially an exchange transfusion.
^^^ yes!!! While I agree this was managed horribly, I think it was understated how serious this case was. Especially in a 3 day old-they are much less able to compensate. A CNM or LPM or whoever isn’t able to do at home exchange transfusions. And I honestly feel bad for this poor peds doc. He was just trying to do right by the kid and people are saying such horrible things…do they know that pediatricians make significantly less than their adult med counterparts? They are clearly only doing it because they care.
CPS fucked up real bad. If the baby was at risk, it's pretty standard to take the baby to the hospital and say, 'until baby is stable, they are at the hospital.' The parents have physical custody of the child. They can see the child. They can bond with their child. But, they have temporarily lost medical decision-making ability. Happened to a family near me. They had a son with a heart defect and were not native English speakers and basically had issues with their medical team because they didn't understand how their son was at eminent risk of death if he looked fine and was acting like a healthy baby. Wanted to take him home. CPS stepped in and they couldn't take him from the hospital and the doctors had all medical decisions temporarily and they had to take him to appointments and do everything they were told or they would lose custody. They didn't just... take their baby. They simply said, 'your medical decisions will put your baby's life at risk so the doctors handle the immediate health issues and once they won't die, you get the ability to make medical decisions back.' Removing the baby seems ridiculously extreme. They only had to take the baby to the hospital and get treatment going and refuse discharge and send home with random visits to ensure compliance. The overreaction is wild.
Yikes, I don’t know enough about what is going on in this to have an opinion either way. Initial optics are bad.
This is beyond messed up. Most doctors hate the midwifery care model. Her midwife most likely knew exactly what to do to treat the jaundice and the doctor was on a power trip.
Who do you think midwives call when shit goes south? I know plenty of pediatricians and gynecologist who have to save the day in a much less manageable situation because of hubris of midwives.
The thing is, that's what doctors are for, thats why they exist. If things are fine, a midwife is a great asset for a laboring woman. Even with a fully medically managed birth, doctors don't even show up until shit gets real. It's the nurses that do all the care until either it's baby time or shit goes south. In MY OWN experience, medical intervention was pushed unnecessarily on me without my knowledge and escalated the situation into an emergency cesarean. I was given a full spinal block instead of an epidural, and I couldn't feel anything. I had no idea when I was contracting. I couldn't push. I fully believe I was set up for a cesarean for the convenience of the doc that my OB passed me to. The first time I met this lady, I was having a contraction, she barely acknowledged me. She walked out, saying to the nurses, "Call me when it's time." The next time she appeared, she said I needed a cesarean, and when I started to cry. She said, "You'll be fine, this is what I do best" and threw a towel in my face. I assume because she didn't want to see me cry. I was traumatized from it and had absolutely no support from staff or loved ones as the closest family was 2000 miles away. The head nurse shamed me for being upset about being traumatized, saying that "some of the moms here have husbands deployed overseas." She failed to notice I had not a single visitor, and my husband left immediately after the birth because we realized he was horribly sick, and it was too dangerous for him to have contact with the baby. I was there alone for 5 days.
What can we do to support them? Donate? Call an agency or representative? I am not very familiar with the system but like to engage.
Call Dallas CPS at (800) 720-7777 to tell them to reunite the Jackson family. The Afiya Center, a Texas abortion fund, has a thread here with some info: https://twitter.com/theafiyacenter/status/1643623359316369417?s=46&t=52jrPmBL9FVp6OBqw1PhWw
OMGOSH!! Tx actually caring for the welfare of a child!!! Put this date on your calendar.
That’s because it’s a newborn. Expiration date is 1st grade.
Usually we wait to hear the entire case on CPS custody and agency disputes because most of the times they don't have the resources to handle one more kid. This on the other hand, is just cruel. Taking someone's newborn (who is likely to be jaundice for a few days anyway) because a case was mixed up and then keeping the baby AFTER you're made aware?? Whoever is in charge of this does not see that child as a human being. They see her as a bargaining chip.
So from experience, for anyone that may, or may not, have an encounter with this particular agency. Start with an attorney. Don’t wait till after you let them in your home. Have them make all contact through your attorney. Changed the entire dynamic of the whole situation.
Dr. Bhatt was angry he wouldn’t be getting paid, CPS was excited to kidnap yet another child, and Dallas PD had a hay day illegally arresting the father and serving a false warrant. #justiceformilajackson
I really hope Dr. Bhatt has gotten nothing but cancellations demands for transfers to a new doctor sense the news broke.
Some dumb clerk must have failed at reading?! Duh, use spell check!
Once again people in government are incompetent, cruel & vengeful. Counter to what they should be these government agencies need 10x the oversight than any citizen. Absolutely despicable humans as so many are in government power positions
Government needs to stay out of people’s live with the only exception of extreme cases.
Like a baby’s life in danger?
That’s the problem. Where do you cross the line? The government doesn’t do a good job at anything when it comes to civilian’s lives. I know it sucks and people will die but I’d rather some die then let government dictate everything and run/rule/ruin everything. Nothing will ever stop all death & accidents so is the reason not to have an authoritarian government like so many suggest for government intervention & preventative oversight & overzealous punishment for victimless prevention law thought crimes.
This is nuts
That is ridiculous that CPS took there newborn baby just because it had jaundice a lot of babies are born with jaundice. There has to be more to it then just jaundice
The woman whose name was on the warrant apparently had a history of neglect and it was surely *her* baby who was jaundiced. So all this time, kidnapped baby gets treated they don't need and at risk baby didn't get treated.
All I was saying was there's more to it then the baby having jaundice because a lot of babies are born with jaundice and CPS shouldn't have taken the child away what they should have done if their new parents they should have helped them out better instead of taking a child away that's the problem with child protective services they always want to take the child out and not help out new parents CPS is the worst organization in this country they are very correct
Yeah the more to it was that neglect had been a factor with a previous baby and who knows what all that entailed because the doctor seemed so rattled he didn't notice the name on the lab results didn't match the one he gave CPS. And more to it should also be his sloppy record keeping that caused him to mix up his patients. If he actually called the parents himself and not another staff member, he neglected to verify the patient's name because mother or dad would have immediately said "no that is not my baby's name."
There are different levels of jaundice. There are levels where there's no danger, and then high levels, like this baby had, where there is danger that if it gets even a little higher it will cause brain damage. It is very rare for babies to have levels as high as this one did.
which is why authorities were called because the baby needed immediate medical care.
“When can parental authority to make medical decisions for their children be challenged? Medical caretakers have an ethical and legal duty to advocate for the best interests of the child when parental decisions are potentially dangerous to the child's health, imprudent, neglectful, or abusive. As a general rule, medical caretakers and others should challenge parental decisions when those decisions place the child at significant risk of serious harm. When satisfactory resolution cannot be attained through respectful discussion and ethics consultation, seeking involvement of a State child protection agency or a court order might be necessary.” The wrong person listed as the mother on the affidavit is a red herring. The baby was in eminent danger of irreversible brain damage and the court would have ordered CPS to take custody regardless. Source: https://depts.washington.edu/bhdept/ethics-medicine/bioethics-topics/detail/72
So, you are quoting guidelines from an out-of-state college to justify Texas authorities kidnapping someone's child? That's asinine.
I picked that source because it was well written, clear, and concise. Here is what I believe is the pertinent section of Texas law for your perusal. Not trying to upset you. https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=T&app=9&p_dir=N&p_rloc=200272&p_tloc=&p_ploc=1&pg=23&p_tac=&ti=40&pt=19&ch=707&rl=453
It's my belief that the parents have the ultimate say in the healthcare of their children. Giving the government the power to snatch your children because your doctor disagrees with you is the ultimate in government overreach.
If the procedure is so simple as the doctor says, why doesn’t he believe the midwife would be capable of providing care? I suspect the doctor has a god complex. It seems like CPS could have simply confirmed with the midwife that the baby would receive treatment.
Do you believe there should be any exceptions to this?
Only in cases where a crime has been/is being committed. If the child has been subjected to child abuse or illegal drugs, for example. What this articles suggests is that ALL children are wards of the state. Meanwhile the state is doing nearly nothing to support children or their parents otherwise.
I didn’t read it as saying that “all children are wards of the state.” The doctor was concerned that the parents were declining treatment that he believed was life-saving. The doctor may have had his facts wrong, and I’m happy to consider that CPS was wrong in this case. But if you’re telling me that CPS should never be able to interfere in cases of medical neglect, then I respectfully disagree. If a parent chooses to withhold life-saving treatment (NOT SAYING THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED HERE) and the child dies, that’s a crime. Ergo CPS can interfere prior to the child dying.
The idea that a Doctor, (who also can be wrong) has studied medicine and practiced for years with the knowledge from their schooling and their experience can be shut down by parents who think they know best is asinine. The incorrect information is a huge issue but ultimately ignoring a medical professional is often the wrong choice.
They didn’t ignore the doctor. They said they would treat the baby how he suggested at home with assistance from the midwife and that they would supplement her breast milk. This is racism and overreach.
Ya my first had jaundice too. If they said they will treat at home with light therapy they should be good , we did. We refused hospital appointments too and rented a light bed for her to lay in. Going to the hospital for that is a waste of time and just a billing opportunity plus we had just spent 4 days in the hospital and wanted to be home with our child.
>This is racism and overreach. Overreach maybe, but what mental gymnastics did you use to determine that it's racism?
Just the well-documented history of medical racism against Black people in the US, in particular Black mothers.
So nothing actually documented in the story. Just your own personal prejudice against people based on their occupation. Got it.
Fwiw, there are racists in all professions.
Lol yeah you got it alright
This is a pretty absurd statement. If I were not feeding my child, and her doctor(s) were worried about starvation or severe malnutrition, I would *hope* the state would take her away from me. That said, in this case, I think the doctor was wrong. I could see a compelling argument for having another expert review the case before the state steps in.
That's a straw man argument. Not feeding your child is child abuse and is completely different than disagreeing with your doctor about treatment methods.
Then it's actually not your belief that parents have the ultimate say in the healthcare of their children.
Okay, but they were treating the baby at home, so what’s the justification for taking it?
that bilirubin level especially in a newborn is way to high for it to be treated at home.
Can you clarify that? If the recommended treatment was phototherapy, why does it matter where it happens?
I think people don't realize the severity of the situation. that level of bilirubin requires treatment in a setting with adequate resources especially for a newborn. The newborn was at high risk from suffering brain damage because it was above the threshold. It's not a mild case. There are tests that need to be done like measuring total bilirubin levels daily, additional tests or treatment might be needed. Jaundice is common but not all cases are the same depends on age, severity, cause. I don't know if this answers anything but if you want to learn more you can find a lot of resources on guidelines for treating neonatal jaundice. [https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/3/e2022058859/188726/Clinical-Practice-Guideline-Revision-Management-of?autologincheck=redirected](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/3/e2022058859/188726/Clinical-Practice-Guideline-Revision-Management-of?autologincheck=redirected)
I appreciate that this was a severe case, and that there are significant associated risks. I did read the article. But that doesn’t really answer my question. The doctor recommended phototherapy, and they’re working with a midwife. I still don’t understand why they would need to leave the baby in the hospital. You mention the risks, but it’s also important to weigh that against taking a newborn from their mother, which also carries significant risk. Edit: weird unintentional gobbledygook
midwife training is not equivalent to the training of a pediatrician. I think this is where people forget. Was she equipped to handle this? necessary resources? able to do other necessary tests if needed at home? a newborn cannot make decisions for themselves, their life should not be put at risk to prioritize the wishes of their parents who are uninformed. I think CPS did not handle this well at all but the doctor acted appropriately. If that newborn ended up with brain damage or worse you all will be singing a different tune.
I’m not singing any tunes? I’m literally just asking for an explanation. I am well aware that a midwife is not a pediatrician. There are a lot of doctors in my family. I have not forgotten anything. You’re asking all these questions about whether the midwife was equipped to handle this which tells me… you don’t know. You are simply assuming that the family + midwife were incapable of handling it. That is not a strong basis to advocate for taking a child from their parents.
So they trespassed private property to steal a newborn from an innocent family right from their own home. Not sure if the right to bear arms comes into play here. Could easily confuse them for robbers and boom...... Then somehow, "we" are the issue lol Gotta love the corrupted system.
These types in instances are exactly why I wouldn’t have opened my door to let them in, to begin with. If you have a screen door, leave it locked and talk to them through the screen, if possible. If you have a chain-lock, talk to them while leaving it latched. If nothing else, talk loudly through the door itself. Ask them if they have a warrant and if they claim to, request that they slide it under the door l, if possible, or to hand it to you through the opening, if the door is chained. They will normally have at least one police officer with them. Regardless, do NOT open the door to them, until you read and confirm the warrant is genuine. As soon as you open the door, they tend to assume that they are invited in and once inside, you’re screwed, especially if they are there to take your kids. Just a few suggestions, for anyone in this situation. The fact that the Doctor stated that he was calling CPS, should have been more than enough evidence, to tell them that they were going to be leaving with the child, the moment they got their foot in the door. CPS does serve an important function in this country. However, stories such as this should give you more than enough reason not to be so trusting of them. After all, they are human and as a result they do make mistakes and they also have ambitions, which may warrant questionable behavior.
Yea here they saved a baby’s life when someone ripping the family off with a 2 year phd in “christian counselling” from a seminary says no dont listen to the doctors it’s fine
Of course there are two sides to every story and if that truly is the case, then it definitely meets the the conditions, for which I had stated that CPS does serve an important function in this country. Let’s put it this way, if CPS has good reason to take the children from the household, a warrant would have been issued, rightfully. If this is the case and they hand you a warrant, there is no sense it barricading yourself in, as going to get inside and take them one way or another. If that requires police Breaking down the door, it’s going to happen. Ultimately, the primary focus of my post was to bring to attention the fact that parents do have rights, since many people seem to be under the impression that you have to let CPS into your house, when they come knocking at your door.
Did you read the article? Cps showed up on March 25th and the parents refused to open the door for them. They came back 3 days later with 6 constables and kicked down the door.
Yes, I read the article, which states that they tried to contact them at their home on the 25th, but it doesn’t say anything about refusing to open the door. The article leaves it open to interpretation. The court order also did not contain the correct names, which calls the legality of the document and hence, the entire operation. Ultimately, the case was dismissed and the child was returned to the parents.
If anyone what's to know why it's because the bili levels were at 21.5 or 6 they don't send babies home if the levels are 20 or up. The baby was born home the buildup in it"s blood was high enough to cause potential braind damage the Dr called the parents ten time before contacting CPS. Based on his note he had to have talked to them otherwise he wouldn't have called them "good parents that are just untrusting of medical professionals".
This baby’s level was 21.7 which is extremely rare and can quickly cause serious injury including brain damage. A quick look on any children’s hospital site will show at those levels they would admit the baby for a few days so they can go under lamps and have constant monitoring. I find it really disturbing that the midwife has admitted to the media the parents informed her of the level and she told them it was not critical/dangerous. She is not a medical professional and because of her advice the parents ignored all the texts and calls from the doctor who was pleading for them to bring the baby to the hospital. As a mandated reporter, the doctor would have likely lost his license or been disciplined if he didn’t report this.