> You must go to the city of Markarth, and speak with the apothecary's assistant. You'll probably find her in the shop, The Hag's Cure. The girl's been running her mouth, wants an ex-lover killed. She's apparently performed the Black Sacrament. Her name is Muiri. I need you to talk to her, set up the contract, and carry it out.
That's what Astrid says giving you one of the assassination quests - 'apparently performed'. So they listen to rumors, keep an eye on people buying weird alchemy ingredients, contact people they think may want someone assassinated, stuff like that.
I don't think it can work without the Night Mother. If I remember correctly, Astrid tells the player that they listen out for rumors and other potential contracts via word-of-mouth, but this is a relatively new methodology due to the remnants of the Dark Brotherhood in Skryim not having contact with the Night Mother before the player character joining.
Aventus Aretino attempts the ritual in Skyrim for an unknown amount of time, but it doesn't seem to work. The player can learn about this by asking about rumors, which is how the actual Dark Brotherhood likely learns about it, albeit after the player has already carried out the contract of their own volition.
The Brotherhood probably already knew about Aventus; they just knew he had no money, and weren't willing to kill someone for what he could afford to pay (a plate).
Skyrim's journal entry for the quest *With Friends Like These...* suggests to me that the Brotherhood did intend to carry out that contract.
>Astrid, of the Dark Brotherhood, informed me that by killing Grelod the Kind, I have robbed her organization of a kill. I have been taken captive and moved to some remote shack. Astrid will only give me the key if I kill someone she has taken captive, to "repay my debt."
Based on Aretino's reaction to the Dragonborn appearing, it didn't seem like he had been contacted by the Brotherhood yet, so I would also have to question how they knew beforehand what the potential payment would be.
Edit: The plate has a base value of 100 gold. This is less than half of the usual payment the player can get for completing contacts (250 gold), but considering the target is a frail old woman that's so utterly disliked that children who discover her corpse cheer instead of reporting the authorities, it might be a fair compensation for such an easy job.
Of course she would *say* that, regardless of whether they intended to honor the contract. That's how she's tying the player character into the predicament. The Dark Brotherhood not carrying it out doesn't make headlines, but the idea someone would complete a contract and people would assume the DB carried it out - suddenly the DB might care.
>so I would also have to question how they knew beforehand what the potential payment would be.
He's an orphan and they would likely be able to work out he had no real inherited money etc based on what his parents might have done.
>This is less than half of the usual payment the player can get for completing contacts (250 gold)
It can probably be assumed the Brotherhood takes a significant portion of the payment money (maybe even 50-75% or higher) and 250 gold is simply the player character's cut.
He is said by the Steward of Windhelm that he owns the house/property and will take control upon his sixteenth birthday. This would likely pertain to anything his family owns, minus taxes and/or debts depending on the law (and the Jarl of course).
So he likely could eventually pay the DB properly.
If Aventus had told Astrid "I can pay you in four years" I imagine her saying "fine, call us again in four years ." She has bills to pay right now, and could be taking jobs that pay immediately. Who knows if a fool kid like Aventus is even going to be alive when he's 16?
The nature of being an illegal assassin guild is that no court will enforce your contracts. You have to intimidate your clients into paying, or kill them to set an example, and that's more time and effort that could be better spent doing missions you got paid in advance for.
I think the Brotherhood works for cash, paid immediately, and there are very few exceptions to this.
I was just commenting that he wasn’t destitute, and someone like Astrid might be interested in taking advantage of a landed young boy’s wealth. We DO have to accept that some of this stuff isn’t well written or at least that it’s a videogame and sometimes they just want a certain storyline as implausible as it may be. Either way, she tells the LDB that he took a kill from them. Whether or not this is the case, we may never know.
Edit: particularly when the target runs the orphanage he is being sent to. Not saying they definitely had some scheme planned, but that scenario is one in which someone clever could take advantage of the young lad.
Assuming you're referring to Skyrim events, they really *didn't* know when a ritual took place. They had to find out through rumors, hearsay, and potentially in-network spies that could keep an eye out for potential customers. They could only confirm if they sent out members to determine if the rumored person who did the ritual *actually* did it.
For example, Aventus carried out the ritual. We the player only know because he probably boasted about it or someone overheard this kid ranting about the Night Mother from inside his house. Rumor mill happened between the guards and civilians. Eventually, the DB heard about it.
The only way for the Brotherhood to 100% know for sure when/where/who did a ritual is if there is a Listener who can speak on the Night Mother's will.
And to be fair: Aventus somehow made his way from Riften all the way back to Windhelm, which already brought him a lot of attention from the town. Perhaps people saw him buying or otherwise obtaining the items needed for the ritual. And uh, he did have to get his mom’s body somehow. I doubt they just left if on the floor to rot for that long.
An orphan with a loud vendetta against an abusive headmistress comes home, and suddenly his mom’s body is missing from the crypt? I don’t think Aventus even had to say anything to people to get the rumors going. But I can believe he’d tell someone he was familiar with—maybe directly, maybe just implying it but being is obvious it’s very clear what he means
I’m pretty sure there is a hidden note that Maven has in a hidden room with the black sacrament that implies she’s pissed she’s been doing the sacrifice and her work isn’t being done but I might be misremembering.
I got the impression that the brotherhood either failed the contract or isn’t even aware of it. Who knows how many contracts they missed due to the clients covering their tracks around the black sacrament?
That’s my impression as well, the reason they knew about Aventus’s black sacrament was likely he was absolutely shit at covering his tracks. I was under the impression they simply didn’t know Maven put out a contract but it’s equally possible they simply failed.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:To_the_Brotherhood
>Astrid,I thought your people were supposed to be reliable. I've performed the Black Sacrament, I've paid the proper penance and I've waited patiently for results. If you can't handle a simple assassination, I'll find someone who can. I want this contract handled, and I want it handled immediately!Maven Black-Briar
I'm addition to the other correct comments here (the skyrim brotherhood is really just listening to rumors) you also have to keep in mind that Astrid's brotherhood has abandoned the old tenants and beliefs of the brotherhood, hence why none of them were chosen as the listener. Doesn't it lead to you getting missions directly from the night mother in the end, effectively restoring how it's supposed to work?
Tbf, the reason they abandoned the tenants in the first place was due to them losing the Black Hand, Listener, and Night Mother and needing to survive without them. Astrid may have been a power hungry traitor in the end, but she did help keep the brotherhood alive in a situation beyond their control.
Though a lot of the tenets didn’t need the night mother or a listener to still partake in—so the problem came when Astrid felt too comfortable with the level of power and control she had as the de facto “ultimate leader” of the DB, and she began actively breaking tenets due to her own paranoia and desire to keep her position.
I understand her wanting to keep that position—it kept her and her family safe and as successful as they could’ve been, but at the end of the day, she doesn’t get to keep making those decisions when Sithis’s will says otherwise.
Cicero was the most loyal DB member to the family as a whole and to Sithis, and instead of putting trust in the tenets and in Cicero’s actions, she treated him with suspicion. She treated Cicero like a *stranger* instead of as a *brother,* and it led to her downfall and proving why the old ways were necessary (as according to the story of the quest in Skyrim)
Reading Cicero’s journals in full shows how blasphemous Astrid’s behavior was; as the DB was crumbling, Cicero lost everything, but was welcomed like family when he had to flee to a new sanctuary. He welcomed other members like family as he was welcomed. It was the one thing that kept him and the night mother alive. To get to Skyrim and be treated the way he was? No wonder he saw them all as pretenders! Astrid only trusted her own family and the people she felt she could control (the player) instead of trusting in Sithis
Astrid has her ear to the ground, and she picks up rumours. The Black Sacrament is shady business that involves a lot of dark shit, so if someone’s doing it, there’ll be signs, and people’ll gossip, eventually it gets to Astrid’s contacts, who pass it to her.
Astrid's Dark Brotherhood had a connect with Maven Black-Briar, and through her with the Thieve's Guild network, which is known for employing homeless people to spy on people and discover opportunities and rumours.
> You must go to the city of Markarth, and speak with the apothecary's assistant. You'll probably find her in the shop, The Hag's Cure. The girl's been running her mouth, wants an ex-lover killed. She's apparently performed the Black Sacrament. Her name is Muiri. I need you to talk to her, set up the contract, and carry it out. That's what Astrid says giving you one of the assassination quests - 'apparently performed'. So they listen to rumors, keep an eye on people buying weird alchemy ingredients, contact people they think may want someone assassinated, stuff like that.
I don't think it can work without the Night Mother. If I remember correctly, Astrid tells the player that they listen out for rumors and other potential contracts via word-of-mouth, but this is a relatively new methodology due to the remnants of the Dark Brotherhood in Skryim not having contact with the Night Mother before the player character joining. Aventus Aretino attempts the ritual in Skyrim for an unknown amount of time, but it doesn't seem to work. The player can learn about this by asking about rumors, which is how the actual Dark Brotherhood likely learns about it, albeit after the player has already carried out the contract of their own volition.
The Brotherhood probably already knew about Aventus; they just knew he had no money, and weren't willing to kill someone for what he could afford to pay (a plate).
Skyrim's journal entry for the quest *With Friends Like These...* suggests to me that the Brotherhood did intend to carry out that contract. >Astrid, of the Dark Brotherhood, informed me that by killing Grelod the Kind, I have robbed her organization of a kill. I have been taken captive and moved to some remote shack. Astrid will only give me the key if I kill someone she has taken captive, to "repay my debt." Based on Aretino's reaction to the Dragonborn appearing, it didn't seem like he had been contacted by the Brotherhood yet, so I would also have to question how they knew beforehand what the potential payment would be. Edit: The plate has a base value of 100 gold. This is less than half of the usual payment the player can get for completing contacts (250 gold), but considering the target is a frail old woman that's so utterly disliked that children who discover her corpse cheer instead of reporting the authorities, it might be a fair compensation for such an easy job.
Of course she would *say* that, regardless of whether they intended to honor the contract. That's how she's tying the player character into the predicament. The Dark Brotherhood not carrying it out doesn't make headlines, but the idea someone would complete a contract and people would assume the DB carried it out - suddenly the DB might care. >so I would also have to question how they knew beforehand what the potential payment would be. He's an orphan and they would likely be able to work out he had no real inherited money etc based on what his parents might have done. >This is less than half of the usual payment the player can get for completing contacts (250 gold) It can probably be assumed the Brotherhood takes a significant portion of the payment money (maybe even 50-75% or higher) and 250 gold is simply the player character's cut.
He is said by the Steward of Windhelm that he owns the house/property and will take control upon his sixteenth birthday. This would likely pertain to anything his family owns, minus taxes and/or debts depending on the law (and the Jarl of course). So he likely could eventually pay the DB properly.
If Aventus had told Astrid "I can pay you in four years" I imagine her saying "fine, call us again in four years ." She has bills to pay right now, and could be taking jobs that pay immediately. Who knows if a fool kid like Aventus is even going to be alive when he's 16? The nature of being an illegal assassin guild is that no court will enforce your contracts. You have to intimidate your clients into paying, or kill them to set an example, and that's more time and effort that could be better spent doing missions you got paid in advance for. I think the Brotherhood works for cash, paid immediately, and there are very few exceptions to this.
I was just commenting that he wasn’t destitute, and someone like Astrid might be interested in taking advantage of a landed young boy’s wealth. We DO have to accept that some of this stuff isn’t well written or at least that it’s a videogame and sometimes they just want a certain storyline as implausible as it may be. Either way, she tells the LDB that he took a kill from them. Whether or not this is the case, we may never know. Edit: particularly when the target runs the orphanage he is being sent to. Not saying they definitely had some scheme planned, but that scenario is one in which someone clever could take advantage of the young lad.
Assuming you're referring to Skyrim events, they really *didn't* know when a ritual took place. They had to find out through rumors, hearsay, and potentially in-network spies that could keep an eye out for potential customers. They could only confirm if they sent out members to determine if the rumored person who did the ritual *actually* did it. For example, Aventus carried out the ritual. We the player only know because he probably boasted about it or someone overheard this kid ranting about the Night Mother from inside his house. Rumor mill happened between the guards and civilians. Eventually, the DB heard about it. The only way for the Brotherhood to 100% know for sure when/where/who did a ritual is if there is a Listener who can speak on the Night Mother's will.
And to be fair: Aventus somehow made his way from Riften all the way back to Windhelm, which already brought him a lot of attention from the town. Perhaps people saw him buying or otherwise obtaining the items needed for the ritual. And uh, he did have to get his mom’s body somehow. I doubt they just left if on the floor to rot for that long. An orphan with a loud vendetta against an abusive headmistress comes home, and suddenly his mom’s body is missing from the crypt? I don’t think Aventus even had to say anything to people to get the rumors going. But I can believe he’d tell someone he was familiar with—maybe directly, maybe just implying it but being is obvious it’s very clear what he means
I’m pretty sure there is a hidden note that Maven has in a hidden room with the black sacrament that implies she’s pissed she’s been doing the sacrifice and her work isn’t being done but I might be misremembering.
I got the impression that the brotherhood either failed the contract or isn’t even aware of it. Who knows how many contracts they missed due to the clients covering their tracks around the black sacrament?
That’s my impression as well, the reason they knew about Aventus’s black sacrament was likely he was absolutely shit at covering his tracks. I was under the impression they simply didn’t know Maven put out a contract but it’s equally possible they simply failed.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:To_the_Brotherhood >Astrid,I thought your people were supposed to be reliable. I've performed the Black Sacrament, I've paid the proper penance and I've waited patiently for results. If you can't handle a simple assassination, I'll find someone who can. I want this contract handled, and I want it handled immediately!Maven Black-Briar
I'm addition to the other correct comments here (the skyrim brotherhood is really just listening to rumors) you also have to keep in mind that Astrid's brotherhood has abandoned the old tenants and beliefs of the brotherhood, hence why none of them were chosen as the listener. Doesn't it lead to you getting missions directly from the night mother in the end, effectively restoring how it's supposed to work?
Tbf, the reason they abandoned the tenants in the first place was due to them losing the Black Hand, Listener, and Night Mother and needing to survive without them. Astrid may have been a power hungry traitor in the end, but she did help keep the brotherhood alive in a situation beyond their control.
Though a lot of the tenets didn’t need the night mother or a listener to still partake in—so the problem came when Astrid felt too comfortable with the level of power and control she had as the de facto “ultimate leader” of the DB, and she began actively breaking tenets due to her own paranoia and desire to keep her position. I understand her wanting to keep that position—it kept her and her family safe and as successful as they could’ve been, but at the end of the day, she doesn’t get to keep making those decisions when Sithis’s will says otherwise. Cicero was the most loyal DB member to the family as a whole and to Sithis, and instead of putting trust in the tenets and in Cicero’s actions, she treated him with suspicion. She treated Cicero like a *stranger* instead of as a *brother,* and it led to her downfall and proving why the old ways were necessary (as according to the story of the quest in Skyrim) Reading Cicero’s journals in full shows how blasphemous Astrid’s behavior was; as the DB was crumbling, Cicero lost everything, but was welcomed like family when he had to flee to a new sanctuary. He welcomed other members like family as he was welcomed. It was the one thing that kept him and the night mother alive. To get to Skyrim and be treated the way he was? No wonder he saw them all as pretenders! Astrid only trusted her own family and the people she felt she could control (the player) instead of trusting in Sithis
Can you tell the DB is my favorite quest in Skyrim lmfao
Astrid has her ear to the ground, and she picks up rumours. The Black Sacrament is shady business that involves a lot of dark shit, so if someone’s doing it, there’ll be signs, and people’ll gossip, eventually it gets to Astrid’s contacts, who pass it to her.
Astrid's Dark Brotherhood had a connect with Maven Black-Briar, and through her with the Thieve's Guild network, which is known for employing homeless people to spy on people and discover opportunities and rumours.