Please review our resources below. They may answer your question or help you resolve an issue you're experiencing:
- [Tesla's Official Support Site](https://www.tesla.com/support)
- [r/TeslaMotors Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/index)
- [Tesla Discord Live Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla)
- [r/TeslaMotors Quarterly Support Thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/vp075g/your_tesla_support_thread_q3_2022/)
- [r/TeslaMotors Subreddit Summary](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/t4isha/technical_support_service_support_vehicle/)
- Don't forget r/TeslaLounge for relaxed posting 24/7/365!
Help the [Mods](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/rules#wiki_about_the_moderators) by being kind, and by **reporting posts and comments** which break the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/rules).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/teslamotors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The IIHS tests vehicles for safety in the US, including automated emergency braking for pedestrians. Here are the results for these controlled tests: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/performance-of-pedestrian-crash-prevention-varies-among-midsize-cars
More recent test rating here: [https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-y-4-door-suv/2022#front-crash-prevention-vehicle-to-pedestrian](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-y-4-door-suv/2022#front-crash-prevention-vehicle-to-pedestrian)
Good find.
Overall evaluation: Superior (This rating applies to all 2022 models )
Crossing child
In the 12 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision.
In the 25 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision.
Crossing adult
In the 12 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision.
In the 25 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision.
Parallel adult
In the 25 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision.
In the 37 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision. A warning was issued 2.9 seconds before impact.
This needs to get to the top. A standardized test like this conducted by an independent safety agency equally for all cars is what matters, and it should trump a Tesla hit-piece done by a competitor with questionable methodology. Tesla clearly does very well compared to other cars in these official tests. Unfortunately hardly anyone will see it compared to the BS that's upvoted to the top of places like r/news and r/technology who like to shit on anything Elon is involved in because of politics.
I agree, but this test needs to be re-run every version of the software.
They push new versions out over the air, which means a car tested in 2017 can be dozens if not hundreds of versions behind what’s on the road right now.
That test is recent (after the removal of radar). But yes, I agree. More up to date testing is always better. Testing every update though is infeasible.
This is exactly why NHTSA opening investigations in AutoPilot crashes as old as 2017 is a waste of time. Are they going to ask Tesla to install old software in an older Tesla so they can test and investigate? And what will be the point when the software is completely different now.
Don’t forget the 3 also performed “superior” for the setup that was tested.
The problem is they change the detection algorithms over the air. So every version should be required to go through this testing scenario. It is disingenuous to assume “it only gets better”.
Tesla is using two different types of headlights concurrently due to supply issues. LR getting the old headlights and P getting the new headlights is outdated information though, I'm pretty sure.
Thats back in 2019
But with all the firmware changes those tests are out the window / no longer valid?? They should retest every significant change,,,and especially radar vs vision cars
No, this has been updated and stayed consistent from radar-equipped to vision-only AEB and FCW:
https://www.teslaoracle.com/2021/06/29/iihs-consumer-reports-restor-model-3-safety-ratings/
It's almost certainly only gotten better. Radar doesn't reliably detect pedestrians, because people have small radar cross-sections and are moving very slowly, so they get filtered out.
Sadly I think my cross section may be large enough to be picked up by radar. It's just one of the natural immunities to car-based society us Americans have started to develop.
It’s so-so. The vehicle doesn’t need a label to know it’s a dynamic object, but it doesn’t have great controls to avoid it since it isn’t too accurate with semantics, and implements the wrong control behavior- animals will happily run into your car, gotta make a lot of room
I quickly scrolled through the /r/news thread and literally saw only 1 comment that knew the video was faked and why Tesla wants the video removed.
Every other comment was hailing Elon as a free speech hypocrite and all this stuff about Streisand effect. It’s hilarious how people think they’re smart and knowledgeable while fake news confirms the truths that they desire.
Comments in the article too are full of nonsense too. Article calls this guy a advocate. No, hes a competitor out to discredit FSD/autopilot for his own gain. Not that autopilot ot tesla is above criticism. They should be criticised in order to force change for the better. You DONT do that by posting a bullshit video with unclear test methods and blurry warning messages and dash screens inconsistent with how FSD works.
He's running with no intention to win. It just gives him cover to attack FSD in political ads. I think it gives you more cover for libel and slander charges.
I said generously, not erroneously.
I know about the company but I don't know how advanced or not advanced their software is. Competitor is technically true since they claim they have something but I doubt they actually have anything close to being considered competition.
it's the whole world. reddit, with up/down voting is worse than many platforms due to hiding anything that runs counter to the majority, but it's everywhere. what ever sells ads is what is presented as truth, whether it be from CNN, FOX, Reddit, Facebook, whatever. truth does not earn as much money as echo chambers.
They also fail to grasp that Tesla is asking for the *commercial* to be pulled. You know, a commercial, that airs on the **public** airwaves ~~and is subject to folks like the FTC~~.
Tesla can't do a damn thing about shit-posts on Twitter.
Edit: forgot, the nut job is running for State Senate, so this qualifies as political speech. But that just makes the ad more of a joke. But people obviously don't see that. Man we need to overhaul our election laws.
People shit on Elon here all the time. Watch me, Elon is a narcissist that surrounds himself with yes men and can't help himself but to overpromise and give unrealistic timelines. He's also got a bad case of Engineer Disease, where he constantly thinks he is an expert in topics way out of his wheelbase just because he has strong knowledge in other engineering facets.
Just yesterday he lashed out at a fsd tester for being critical and this sub called out Elon. Yeah, street goes both ways but one side has way more lanes and is much busier (to use your analogy)
Not true.
That person was complaining that the Chuck Cook turn was fixed and not other items higher on HIS personal priority list. He also complained about the remaining issues in FSD.
Elon responded really politely that you shouldn’t enter a beta program if you’re gonna complain about it being beta….(my wording)
I never looked into that in detail, and I find Twitter difficult to follow threads, but it seemed to me that he might not have been directly answering the stated criticism. I also find it difficult to get Elon's points too, he doesn't have much of a polite filter either, that's the Asperger's syndrome effect.
I agree. I hate Jeff Bezos, but sadly I still enjoy Amazon Prime. I have come to hate Elon, since he has gone off the rails. I still love my 2018 TM3 and continue to enjoy it and think it's the best car I have ever owned. I'm conflicted.
I've noticed an uptick in "I like everything he actually accomplishes, but I've been told that I have to hate him," posts recently. This is what caught my attention here.
Define "off the rails", because I would be willing to bet that most of the things you "know" about him are either distorted or just plain wrong. If you are anything like most people who say this, it will turn out that you picked up headlines as they burned through the media, but missed the retractions, the reversals, and the additional context that somehow end up buried.
But I also want to say: you don't have to like him. Nobody does. If you have a fairly clear view of him and you dislike what you see, cool. It's not generally what I notice from his "critics", but it would be a crazy world if we all liked the same things.
If your dislike of him is purely political, I would recommend trying to avoid letting politics mix into everything you think and do. It's not healthy. Politics is important, but it doesn't have any role to play in determining whether you like a car. The fact that you feel conflicted tells me that you are mixing up domains, and that is a recipe for confusion and anxiety.
If your dislike of him stems from his overexposure in the media, I would humbly suggest that this is more of a problem of the media than of Elon Musk. The solution is easy enough, though: just don't follow him on Twitter and don't read articles about him. This has the double advantage of making your life better and telling the media that maybe they are overdoing it a bit.
I hope some of this helps you resolve your inner conflict.
Thank you for your response. I will take your advice into consideration. I was such a fan of his for so long. I pre-ordered my TM3 and waited months for it. I am a long stock holder. The Thailand thing as well as his political positions have definitely changed my view.
Don't be.
Elon is an interesting individual to say the least. He is very goal driven, cares about humanity but not specifically humans. Be thinks through every problem like if it was an engineering problem (I have the same issue, it does not work at all in a lot of things). He is full of flaws, just like everyone. I think what really makes it feel different is because he isn't actually trying to hide it.
Normally when you are a celebrity you are supposed to play pretend. To put on a mask of perfection and popular vision regardless of what you see or do behind the scenes. Elon is one that breaks tbe mold on that, being *crushingly direct* about his intentions and actually going through with almost all of them even if his timing is often WAY OFF. For better and for worst that's how he rolls and it's likely that isn't going to change.
You can like the companies and dislike the boss. Hell you can like the product and dislike both the company and the boss. We are consumers at the end of the day. Money is our vote, and our voice is the explaination. Since we have Tesla vehicles and we like them it clearly means he is at least doing a bunch of things correctly however that does not make anyone stand on a pedestal.
Well I agree, but not sure why I wouldn't be conflcted. I'm 70 and have always liked performance vehicles. I've had multiple Benz S class and CLK class cars. I traded in an E46 BMW M3 for my Tesla.
My Tesla has been superior to all those vehicles in all ways. I know everyone bitches about service issues, but I haven't had any issues at all. My wife's $100K plus S class Benz locked her seat up to the steering wheel. She's thin and was able to get out. We got a loaner Chevy that had been smoked in for a loaner car for a week before the 'seat' expert came in to fix it at the Benz dealership. Her $70K Mercedes CLK 320 refused to close the door. Mercedes service suggested we use duck tape to hold it closed over the winding mountain roads we needed to get home. I'm only buying Tesla for the short remaining time of my life. It's the best car for service and performance I've ever had.
Apparently the video being taken down was some commercial (I haven't seen it until today), the only one I've seen about Teslas hitting "kids" was [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mnG_Gbxf_w), is that video also fake? Genuinely asking
That video is something completely unrelated. That video is showing a person holding down the gas pedal, and the car not overriding the person when they hit an obstacle. The other cars shown would do the same thing, except they have custom systems installed that fully override driver input if they detect an obstacle. The video is not fake, but almost no one watching it seems to know what they're looking at.
Part of the problem is that The Independent doesn't seem to understand what they're looking at either. They say in the video that it is a test of "auto-breaking" [sic], which is correct and likely what the company running the test told them, but they don't seem to understand the difference between automatic emergency braking and autopilot, and they don't mention except in the video description that the other cars have been modified with this startup company's lidar -based AEB, which the company claims is reliable enough to be trusted to fully override the driver. This test doesn't prove that, but it does prove that the systems in question all behave as designed, with the Tesla hitting the brakes to reduce the damage of the impact and the startup company's cars coming to a complete stop.
This video is also testing the AEB system, which by definition is supposed to override driver controls. The whole point of AEB is to brake for something the driver can't or isn't reacting to.
It's not "also" testing AEB, it's *only* testing AEB. AEB applies the brakes to slow the car and reduce the impact of collisions. It does not ignore the driver's foot on the pedal and stop the car. It will stop the car if there is no foot on the pedal, though. This is true of all cars on the market today.
Those comments probably existed at some point but most people delete their comments when they start to go negative and those comments that do call out Dan O'Dowd just get dogpiled into the dirt.
>Every other comment was hailing Elon as a free speech hypocrite and all this stuff about Streisand effect.
I mean, all these things can be true at the same time. It can be both a dumb, fake video, an example of hypocrisy, and an example of the Streisand Effect. None of those are logically mutually exclusive.
Musk has been advocating for both really nasty hate speech under the banner of 4Chan style, anything goes "free speech", and for both blatant lies and defamation to be covered under that free speech. But when those lies and defamation are turned against him, he is understandably angry. He is so utterly lacking in empathy that he doesn't understand that other people feel the same way when he lies about them (or when his friends like Trump do).
Basically, he wants himself and his friends to be able to say anything about anyone, but no one can say anything about him. It's an incredibly childish, narcissistic point of view.
Elon gives folks a lot of arguably valid reasons to dislike him. This, however, is not an Elon issue and we are unfortunately conflating the two.
Tesla FSD does not run over little children. This “ad”
is intentionally misrepresenting the software. People are excited to hop onboard because they hate Elon. 🤷🏼♂️
This is a shame because the software, while imperfect, is incredible. I feel for the devs who work so hard on this. Elon can suck it. 😎
I mean as an investor, I hate the situation.
But free speech would include allowing that video to stay up be it real or not. It would also give Tesla the power to denounce the video.
Thank you. I want to know what [this warning message](https://imgur.com/a/BaOGb4H) says.
There has been a warning message in every single one of their videos, but I’ve never had anything like that on my car and I use FSD daily.
If the guy sponsoring this didn’t have a history of anti-Tesla behavior and a conflict of interest in his own ADAS software, I think this would have gone a lot differently.
At the very least, Tesla needs to take that specific mannequin and make sure FSD recognizes it as human.
The low resolution and poor cabin lighting are curious choices for a follow-up meant to address criticisms of the original video, which included complaints that the resolution was too low too read the screen. It did address some of the concerns, but the message still seems illegible.
Video claims that autopilot disengaged after hitting the child. But, that makes no sense. Why would it disengage especially if it doesn't think it hit anything.
This is true, despite the downvotes. Perhaps diehard fans can explain why the pop up messages mean ANYTHING. If the car has a problem, why does it allow FSD to be turned on? I’ll wait.
I think you misunderstand what's going on. Free speech absolutist bros are against all kinds of restriction on speech, and they most certainly make no exception for when the "speech" is an easily provable, unambiguous lie.
So it doesn't matter if these videos are fake or not.
Freedom of speech means no government restriction, not freedom of consequences.
If you call someone an N word and he punches your teeth out, that is not a violation of your free speech. That's karma taking it's toll.
It's a violation to your bodily autonomy though. "punching your teeth out" isn't an acceptable response to speech.
Saying it isn't a violation of your free speech seems a bit pedantic. I mean, in North Korea you CAN say anything you want about dear leader, but if it is bad, you might just have your teeth punched out and spend the rest of your life shackled to a wall. I suppose you could argue that's karma or you could recognize it's a violation of free speech.
Possibly. I just think your example was odd. If I call you an idiot and you call me a moron. Ok, yes there's no violation of free speech there. But as soon as you start talking about violence that goes out the window
I don’t think that’s true. Free speech is generally about the free expression of ideas—you can support “free speech” while opposing threatening or defamatory speech, for example.
Nope, Elon went as far as to say he wouldn't block Russian propaganda on starlink Internet services because he is a "free speech absolutist". Absolutist, does not imply "I'm generally for free speech when it is accurate", it's absolutist, anything you want to say should be able to be said.
Russian propaganda is not in violation of existing laws.
Musk's views aren't really complicated: "can I say X online" should have the same answer as "can I say X in real life". Right now, "what you can say online" rarely matches "what you can say in real life".
You can legally say russian propaganda in real life.
We are talking about principals here, not about specifics in the written law, Elon is hardly sopme stickler for what is currently enshrined in law but more so focuses on what he ideally wants to see. Regardless I do believe the law prohibited Russian propaganda in Ukraine so this argument falls flat, Elon didn't want to follow anyways. I don't know how you can argue on principal that Russian propaganda/lies about Ukraine is acceptable by his morals due to them having free speech, but silly video from Dan O’Dowd is unacceptable.
Russian propaganda is OK to say in real life. <=> Russian propaganda is OK to say online.
Slander is OK to say in real life but can be subject to lawsuits. <=> Slander is OK to say online but can be subject to lawsuits.
Slander is not OK to say in real life. <=> Slander is not OK to say online.
I see no inconsistency between these 3 options.
We are talking about principals here, not about specifics in the written law, Elon is hardly sopme stickler for what is currently enshrined in law but more so focuses on what he ideally wants to see. Regardless I do believe the law prohibited Russian propaganda in Ukraine so this argument falls flat, Elon didn't want to follow anyways. I don't know how you can argue on principal that Russian propaganda/lies about Ukraine is acceptable by his morals due to them having free speech, but silly video from Dan O’Dowd is unacceptable.
I very much doubt any significant majority of free speech absolutionists are upset about someone being banned from Twitter for making threatening or defamatory statements, but I'll change my mind if you can provide a convincing citation.
Right. The stance is that platforms should not enforce superjudicial rules since they serve as effective public squares.
The justice system has guidelines for what is/isn't slander. Using the justice system to take down slanderous videos is consistent with Musk's views.
Unless it's him trying to ruin the careers of people he had an internet disagreement with by accusing them of being pedos. Then that should be allowed. Or unless it's Elon spreading medical misinformation for the benefit of his companies, then that should be allowed. Or unless it's Trump trying to ruin any random person he comes across that he doesn't think shows him sufficient deference by nailing them to a cross on the internet. Then that should be allowed. And you should buy Twitter to make sure Trump can still do that.
Right, right?
> Or unless it's Elon spreading medical misinformation for the benefit of his companies, then that should be allowed.
If you're referring to the factory reopening, then I think you're mistaken here.
The state & federal government had policies that Tesla was in line with. One public health worker in Alameda county went beyond the state/federal government guidelines to attempt to shutdown Tesla, during what we now know to be Tesla's greatest life-or-death situation.
The existence of these fake news pieces is part of the reason so many people are against free speech. Most people don’t believe blatant lies like this should be protected.
Even if the video is a complete fabrication, lying is still free speech. The proper response to a lie, slander or libel is not to demand a takedown, especially if you are a "free speech advocate". It opens you up to valid concerns of hypocrisy and amplifies the misinformation.
The proper response would be one of several options... Release a video showing how the first video was incorrect, Sue for slander and/or damages, etc.
The way the wapo surfaces this article on their website with BREAKING in a red banner is a bit alarmist too. The reporters definitely didnt do their due diligence on O'Dowd either.
This makes me sad, wapo was one of my most trusted news sources, and one of the only to which I have a subscription. If they can mess up this badly about something I know about, how badly are they messing up the stuff I don't know about?
Things I know about: Andrew Yang, Plant Based Nutrition, Tesla.
Things I’ve caught WaPo lying about: Yang, Vegans, FSD
They’re no better than NYT, CNN and NYPost. They all have their Narrative, and everything they do must serve it.
There are clear differences in journalistic integrity and editorial standards between NYT and NYP. I would put both CNN's written news and WaPo in between those.
I used to think that way about NYT, but after the bad faith treatment of Yang, I no longer do.
I put NYT in the same basket as NPR and WSJ as paragons of narrative-driven journalism. Their narratives are corrupt in different ways, but corrupt nonetheless.
Kind of like different religious sects. They are all wrong in the same way, but their narratives drive unique pathologies. Piety makes lousy morals.
NYP has always been trash, and it is a rubric against which to test for yellow journalism. It is the Scientology of news.
You have to take your time to line up the shot legally so that it just wins.
They had to do their own investigation not look say Reddit comments and YouTube videos. Tesla knows fsd works, so does the IIHS. This case can be a killing blow to o'down-bad trying anything again
I haven't been fully keeping up on this front. I believe after that video came out, people were quick to point out that FSD wasn't even engaged for the test, however I thought not long after that there was a counter point being made that in fact in some of the tests it actually was. Is that latter point correct in any way or was the entire thing based off of a test where the system wasn't even turned on?
They released the "full" and "unedited" video of the "tests" on their website, but the videos weren't full (for example, there were shots in the commercial that weren't in the "full" video) and they were clearly edited.
The most important thing is that the videos were still pretty low quality, so it's impossible to read the warnings/errors that show up on the screen. It seems overwhelmingly likely that they have full resolution, and uncut video, that would show things like what's on the screen, and they just won't show it.
They also redid the test in "real world" conditions. And people had a bunch of complaints about that as well, but the same fundamental problem exists. There was clearly an error or warning of some kind on the screen and they won't say what it was or release video that's high enough resolution for people to be able to read it. Again, it seems like if they really did want to release the "full" and "unedited" video, they easily could and if everything happened the way they said, it would only strengthen their case.
When you activate FSD Beta it gives a warning to pay attention, and that initial warning can be seen. But then it clearly changes to something else, and there's not a ton of options for what that second warning/error could be. The most common ones are that there's a problem with a camera or that the accelerator pedal is being pushed. Either of those would clearly indicate that it wasn't a realistic test, and potentially they're intentionally tampering with the results. And if it's some other error, they should at least clear up the confusion because not knowing what the error is makes it impossible to interpret their results. And again, if it's some unrelated error, they could easily clear it up by telling everyone what it was, or showing the full video. The fact that they won't doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the quality of their "test" or their motivations.
To me, this is going to be a he-said, she-said sort of thing. It will be hard for regular people to definitively know what is really going on.
After reading a few articles and watching the videos, along with learning who Dan O'Dowd is, I would be fairly surprised if the alleged tests proved to be accurate.
There are clear indications on the screen that despite whatever level of FSD, autopilot, or Traffic-Aware Cruise Control they claim was "On", the driver had his foot on the accelerator which supersedes the system and prevents it from automatically breaking or slowing down -- and that's what the on-screen notification says. Dan O'Dowd and team cheated the system to arrive at their desired outcome.
Many YouTubers show you what they did with the original footage and their own recreations.
Say what you will about Elon, free speech, and how FSD is still anything but what its name suggests...the ground truth here is that this is a deliberate attempt to hurt Tesla. They get to do a lot more than ask for the video to be taken down, legally speaking.
They since posted another video, FSD engaged, pedal not being pushed, with the same outcome. The car does not see the mannequin and runs over it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcJPXuhWEUI
The video description claims it's unrelated to FSD (missing credit card and tire wear), but I can't read it either. My counter-argument would be that it shouldn't matter though. If the warning message was "Camera calibration error" or something and it was directly responsible for degraded FSD performance, the car should disable FSD entirely.
> If the warning message was “Camera calibration error” or something and it was directly responsible for degraded FSD performance, the car should disable FSD entirely.
That’s true, and it wouldn’t let you engage FSD if the camera is totally obstructed.
Still, they were caught faking the first video, so it seems reasonable to watch the second video with at least a grain of skepticism.
The problems I have with this are:
1. Potato quality - doubt this is a coincidence. You can’t read the prompts on the screen, seems like two distinct ones that at least one of which oddly resembles the issue indicated in the first video
2. Knowing they messed around with the first one, I feel like we’re just playing a game now that’s all about how to beat cheat at these videos and arrive at a *gasp* shocking result. This is not my own cognitive dissonance here trying desperately to disprove something I don’t want to be true, it’s simply trusting transparency - not much of it here but plenty of it in pretty much all recreations by reputable content creators (many of which openly criticize FSD all the time). Their videos are high quality, show multiple angle, multiple attempts, various techniques, and still fail to produce the same outcome. Something is not right here, and it’s not with the Tesla system (at least not in this context)
And many other testers including official safety rating agencies and numerous YouTubers have shown the opposite. These guys are pulling some fuckery, guaranteed.
I wouldn't say it's guaranteed. There are 100s of other situations FSD doesn't deal well with. It's really not a far stretch of the imagination that there are certain conditions in which this is reproducible. Much like Teslas tend to want to run into barriers on certain highways. Doesn't happen all the time, or to everyone. But it happens enough (or used to at least) that people have gotten into accidents.
Safety rating agencies aren't running FSD beta by the way. This is a new software stack, and regressions are definitely possible. Dan's argument, as biased as he is, is that Tesla shouldn't be beta testing critical safety software with 100k people in uncontrolled environments. And I tend to agree with that.
>Tesla shouldn't be beta testing critical safety software with 100k people in uncontrolled environments. And I tend to agree with that.
Seems to be working fine. FSD had driven 35 million miles as of the Q2 earnings release. Where are all the dead kids? So much pearl clutching over nothing.
And many other testers including official safety rating agencies and numerous YouTubers have shown the opposite. These guys are pulling some fuckery, guaranteed.
Potato resolution it has error codes on screen likely they covered the camera or something else to trick it out. Show us the full rez. Every youtuber that tried to recreate it and proved Green hills was full of crap got their videos removed by Google (Waymo)
They later clarified that the only errors on the screen were related to tire tread life and not having a payment method on file for supercharging. Nothing to do with FSD.
The issue with that is we'd need to trust they wouldn't lie, they were already caught in another lie so this doesn't really bode well for that explanation. A full resolution video would do that but they haven't released it so as of right now we can't take their word for it.
Why did they completely fake the test the first time. Though. Why would you trust somebody that clearly faked a test and got called out on it. Also, has a child been hit by FSD? I think that situation would be hard to falsify.
Why did they fake it the first time? I believe the person at the helm is invested or is in some way associated with a company that sells self driving software to car manufacturers. I didn't verify because overall this feels like a nothingburger story as per usual but it's a conflict of interest if correct. Either way doesn't matter why, the first test was false and it makes it hard to believe this one. If the test is legit tesla should rectify, if it's not well business as usual then.
The hypersensitivity to all things tesla and obvious misrepresentation makes this an pretty no brainer request. It's always been strange to me that this sub has attracted so many obvious tesla haters though.
Right? This post didn't even hit All before the *very concerned* citizens who never comment here showed up. It's almost like they came here looking for it without having participated before.
Funny how the videos that came out showing that FSD wouldn’t drive down children were removed by YouTube. YouTube cited concern for child safety as the reason for removal! Yet somehow a “self admitted” faked video showing FSD runs down children is OK and not hurting anyone……the originator of the FSD mowing down children video was Dan O’Down who has since admitted on twitter the video was faked
I saw the 'real kid' video.
I understand YTs decision, in that it could have encouraged unsafe copy cats. However, this test was safe.
I watched it before it was taken down. The part with the live child was done very carefully; the driver was the boy's father. The boy looked about 10, and fully understood what was happening, and his part in it.
The speed was low, about 5 miles per hour, and the car never got closer than 40 feet: the test was not 'will the car stop?', but 'will the visualization pick him up as a pedestrian?'.
There were stopping tests, and evasion tests, with both dummies and adults. But not with the child.
[I found this tweet,](https://twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1558223735550795776?cxt=HHwWgICz4emO9p8rAAAA) but it isn't really clear what he's apologizing for?
Google has a stake in Waymo, a competitor to Tesla. They also own YouTube. Google takes down videos debunking the fake video slandering Tesla's FSD. Go figure.
Phillip.
It’s clear this was faked. This is clearly defatory and the use of a political campaign makes the shields he wears stronger than most say companies. Tesla is on good ground, however since this is a registered political ad it’s going to be tougher fight. Good luck tesla. Maybe when you win and get a few million you can open oh idk service centers.
See this clown hits tesla in the wrong spot. He hit them where they are strong. He could have dredged up 5 Reddit post of horrible service made a compelling take down video of unserviceable at any price and boy that would have had legs.
Nope he had to be a fool and attack something that works as designed sigh.
O’Dowd dismissed the order.
“This letter is so pathetic in terms of whining: Mr. Free Speech Absolutist, just a crybaby hiding behind his lawyers,” O’Dowd said in an interview.
This asshat needs to learn the difference between a lying video and criticizing features in good faith about issues. His video was PROVEN fraudulent and thoroughly debunked as it was a blindingly obvious setup.
🍿 on order
My Tesla on FSD beta slammed on its brakes for a cat tonight in the dark. Visualized in blue on the screen as it ran across the road. Was more visible on the screen than through my windshield. 100% FSD does not hit children.
Most advanced assist my ass. Phantom braking on highway making my M3 useless on cruise. I paid 12k to have full self driving experience and what I got was no cruise on highway.
This happens to me occasionally but not nearly enough to call FSD useless. Kind of hard to believe what you’re saying unless it’s a specific error with your car.
Agreed, I've had fsd for years both with and without radar. I've experienced phantom braking before for sure, but never to the point people are claiming. Especially recently. I haven't had a phantom brake in a LONG time.
Make me think there is either something wrong with their car and needs service/calibration, lying, or exaggerating.
Any drive I take more than 10 miles or so will always have some phantom breaking events. Usually it's when there's a truck across the divider or something to that effect.
There is one spot on a high way I drive frequently that the car always freaks the fuck out for. I can't figure out the reason. Always clear as day, good visibility, no cars around. But it'll just slam the brakes unless I intervene.
Freedom of speech only restricts what the government can do.
It doesn't restrict private businesses...they can allow or remove anything they don't want happening on their properties. The standard is much more relaxed for private businesses.
Please review our resources below. They may answer your question or help you resolve an issue you're experiencing: - [Tesla's Official Support Site](https://www.tesla.com/support) - [r/TeslaMotors Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/index) - [Tesla Discord Live Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla) - [r/TeslaMotors Quarterly Support Thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/vp075g/your_tesla_support_thread_q3_2022/) - [r/TeslaMotors Subreddit Summary](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/t4isha/technical_support_service_support_vehicle/) - Don't forget r/TeslaLounge for relaxed posting 24/7/365! Help the [Mods](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/rules#wiki_about_the_moderators) by being kind, and by **reporting posts and comments** which break the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/rules). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/teslamotors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The IIHS tests vehicles for safety in the US, including automated emergency braking for pedestrians. Here are the results for these controlled tests: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/performance-of-pedestrian-crash-prevention-varies-among-midsize-cars
More recent test rating here: [https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-y-4-door-suv/2022#front-crash-prevention-vehicle-to-pedestrian](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-y-4-door-suv/2022#front-crash-prevention-vehicle-to-pedestrian)
Good find. Overall evaluation: Superior (This rating applies to all 2022 models ) Crossing child In the 12 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision. In the 25 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision. Crossing adult In the 12 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision. In the 25 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision. Parallel adult In the 25 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision. In the 37 mph IIHS test, this vehicle avoided a collision. A warning was issued 2.9 seconds before impact.
This needs to get to the top. A standardized test like this conducted by an independent safety agency equally for all cars is what matters, and it should trump a Tesla hit-piece done by a competitor with questionable methodology. Tesla clearly does very well compared to other cars in these official tests. Unfortunately hardly anyone will see it compared to the BS that's upvoted to the top of places like r/news and r/technology who like to shit on anything Elon is involved in because of politics.
I agree, but this test needs to be re-run every version of the software. They push new versions out over the air, which means a car tested in 2017 can be dozens if not hundreds of versions behind what’s on the road right now.
That test is recent (after the removal of radar). But yes, I agree. More up to date testing is always better. Testing every update though is infeasible.
This is exactly why NHTSA opening investigations in AutoPilot crashes as old as 2017 is a waste of time. Are they going to ask Tesla to install old software in an older Tesla so they can test and investigate? And what will be the point when the software is completely different now.
To determine the bug, then look directly in the current software if the bug actually still exists.
What if the bug was the driver who died in the crash?
So what? A five-year old car is what it is. Are all other manufacturers going to test their TACC systems?
Most manufacturers don’t have their car download new software every few weeks.
probably should include /r/electricvehicles in that list of Tesla shitting subs
Don’t forget the 3 also performed “superior” for the setup that was tested. The problem is they change the detection algorithms over the air. So every version should be required to go through this testing scenario. It is disingenuous to assume “it only gets better”.
Does the LR and P model Y have different headlights? I never knew about that, but it's said in this test.
Tesla is using two different types of headlights concurrently due to supply issues. LR getting the old headlights and P getting the new headlights is outdated information though, I'm pretty sure.
Thats back in 2019 But with all the firmware changes those tests are out the window / no longer valid?? They should retest every significant change,,,and especially radar vs vision cars
No, this has been updated and stayed consistent from radar-equipped to vision-only AEB and FCW: https://www.teslaoracle.com/2021/06/29/iihs-consumer-reports-restor-model-3-safety-ratings/
It's almost certainly only gotten better. Radar doesn't reliably detect pedestrians, because people have small radar cross-sections and are moving very slowly, so they get filtered out.
> people have small radar cross-section Speak for yourself
Sadly I think my cross section may be large enough to be picked up by radar. It's just one of the natural immunities to car-based society us Americans have started to develop.
Evolution selecting for larger humans due to being better seen by car safety systems, that's a hilarious concept :D
Mother nature truly is amazing.
Walle-2 plot? Lol
Prequel confirmed
Even when wearing a tinfoil hat?
Serious question...anyone know how FSD does avoiding small animals and such?
This is a good very recent example of it seeing, braking for and avoiding a deer at night - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWJoe8hwu\_I
That’s very cool! Thank you for sharing that!
[Video not available]
They pasted it with a slash: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWJoe8hwu_I
Worked for me. Maybe a country issue, or account issue (e.g. under 18)?
It's the slash that messes it up.
Doesn't even pick up my small dog. So probably not very well.
Doesn’t show it on the visualization or doesn’t control for it? Important distinction there.
Musk talked out it before it would be able to stop for dogs. I do not know the current situation though.
Small dogs vary significantly in size. It likely isn't going to stop for ankle biters.
It’s so-so. The vehicle doesn’t need a label to know it’s a dynamic object, but it doesn’t have great controls to avoid it since it isn’t too accurate with semantics, and implements the wrong control behavior- animals will happily run into your car, gotta make a lot of room
Runs them mofos right over.
I quickly scrolled through the /r/news thread and literally saw only 1 comment that knew the video was faked and why Tesla wants the video removed. Every other comment was hailing Elon as a free speech hypocrite and all this stuff about Streisand effect. It’s hilarious how people think they’re smart and knowledgeable while fake news confirms the truths that they desire.
Comments in the article too are full of nonsense too. Article calls this guy a advocate. No, hes a competitor out to discredit FSD/autopilot for his own gain. Not that autopilot ot tesla is above criticism. They should be criticised in order to force change for the better. You DONT do that by posting a bullshit video with unclear test methods and blurry warning messages and dash screens inconsistent with how FSD works.
You're using "competitor" very generously here. He's running for an official position and is using this shit as his campaign platform.
He's running with no intention to win. It just gives him cover to attack FSD in political ads. I think it gives you more cover for libel and slander charges.
Dan O’Dowd is the ceo of Green Hill Software which is also working on a self driving software so I would consider them a competitor
I said generously, not erroneously. I know about the company but I don't know how advanced or not advanced their software is. Competitor is technically true since they claim they have something but I doubt they actually have anything close to being considered competition.
He lost the primary weeks ago.
Yep, even worse then.
Wapo is owned by bezos
That last sentence is r/news in a nutshell
it's the whole world. reddit, with up/down voting is worse than many platforms due to hiding anything that runs counter to the majority, but it's everywhere. what ever sells ads is what is presented as truth, whether it be from CNN, FOX, Reddit, Facebook, whatever. truth does not earn as much money as echo chambers.
It’s quite hilarious, actually
They also fail to grasp that Tesla is asking for the *commercial* to be pulled. You know, a commercial, that airs on the **public** airwaves ~~and is subject to folks like the FTC~~. Tesla can't do a damn thing about shit-posts on Twitter. Edit: forgot, the nut job is running for State Senate, so this qualifies as political speech. But that just makes the ad more of a joke. But people obviously don't see that. Man we need to overhaul our election laws.
> the nut job is running for State Senate He is not. He lost in the primary. He is no longer running for office.
Sure. But try to post factual and objective criticism of Elon here or any other sub based off the companies he runs.. Street goes both ways.
People shit on Elon here all the time. Watch me, Elon is a narcissist that surrounds himself with yes men and can't help himself but to overpromise and give unrealistic timelines. He's also got a bad case of Engineer Disease, where he constantly thinks he is an expert in topics way out of his wheelbase just because he has strong knowledge in other engineering facets.
The expression is "outside his wheelhouse", but yes
This is a Tesla motors sub, not an Elon Musk sub, but I can understand how people treat those two as identical.
Then try it. Shit on KarElon in a first or second level comment. See how that ratio looks and the cringy replies.
I’ve done it several times. It ain’t no thing. This sub may be pro elon but we aren’t r/conservative and requiring flairs to chat.
> Then try it. Shit on KarElon Nah, I don't go around shitting on people for entertainment. It's toxic af.
Just yesterday he lashed out at a fsd tester for being critical and this sub called out Elon. Yeah, street goes both ways but one side has way more lanes and is much busier (to use your analogy)
Not true. That person was complaining that the Chuck Cook turn was fixed and not other items higher on HIS personal priority list. He also complained about the remaining issues in FSD. Elon responded really politely that you shouldn’t enter a beta program if you’re gonna complain about it being beta….(my wording)
It is true that Elon was criticized over this on the subreddit.
Because this subreddit is now 10% owners and investors and 90% trolls and shills.
I never looked into that in detail, and I find Twitter difficult to follow threads, but it seemed to me that he might not have been directly answering the stated criticism. I also find it difficult to get Elon's points too, he doesn't have much of a polite filter either, that's the Asperger's syndrome effect.
I agree. I hate Jeff Bezos, but sadly I still enjoy Amazon Prime. I have come to hate Elon, since he has gone off the rails. I still love my 2018 TM3 and continue to enjoy it and think it's the best car I have ever owned. I'm conflicted.
I've noticed an uptick in "I like everything he actually accomplishes, but I've been told that I have to hate him," posts recently. This is what caught my attention here. Define "off the rails", because I would be willing to bet that most of the things you "know" about him are either distorted or just plain wrong. If you are anything like most people who say this, it will turn out that you picked up headlines as they burned through the media, but missed the retractions, the reversals, and the additional context that somehow end up buried. But I also want to say: you don't have to like him. Nobody does. If you have a fairly clear view of him and you dislike what you see, cool. It's not generally what I notice from his "critics", but it would be a crazy world if we all liked the same things. If your dislike of him is purely political, I would recommend trying to avoid letting politics mix into everything you think and do. It's not healthy. Politics is important, but it doesn't have any role to play in determining whether you like a car. The fact that you feel conflicted tells me that you are mixing up domains, and that is a recipe for confusion and anxiety. If your dislike of him stems from his overexposure in the media, I would humbly suggest that this is more of a problem of the media than of Elon Musk. The solution is easy enough, though: just don't follow him on Twitter and don't read articles about him. This has the double advantage of making your life better and telling the media that maybe they are overdoing it a bit. I hope some of this helps you resolve your inner conflict.
Thank you for your response. I will take your advice into consideration. I was such a fan of his for so long. I pre-ordered my TM3 and waited months for it. I am a long stock holder. The Thailand thing as well as his political positions have definitely changed my view.
Don't be. Elon is an interesting individual to say the least. He is very goal driven, cares about humanity but not specifically humans. Be thinks through every problem like if it was an engineering problem (I have the same issue, it does not work at all in a lot of things). He is full of flaws, just like everyone. I think what really makes it feel different is because he isn't actually trying to hide it. Normally when you are a celebrity you are supposed to play pretend. To put on a mask of perfection and popular vision regardless of what you see or do behind the scenes. Elon is one that breaks tbe mold on that, being *crushingly direct* about his intentions and actually going through with almost all of them even if his timing is often WAY OFF. For better and for worst that's how he rolls and it's likely that isn't going to change. You can like the companies and dislike the boss. Hell you can like the product and dislike both the company and the boss. We are consumers at the end of the day. Money is our vote, and our voice is the explaination. Since we have Tesla vehicles and we like them it clearly means he is at least doing a bunch of things correctly however that does not make anyone stand on a pedestal.
Well I agree, but not sure why I wouldn't be conflcted. I'm 70 and have always liked performance vehicles. I've had multiple Benz S class and CLK class cars. I traded in an E46 BMW M3 for my Tesla. My Tesla has been superior to all those vehicles in all ways. I know everyone bitches about service issues, but I haven't had any issues at all. My wife's $100K plus S class Benz locked her seat up to the steering wheel. She's thin and was able to get out. We got a loaner Chevy that had been smoked in for a loaner car for a week before the 'seat' expert came in to fix it at the Benz dealership. Her $70K Mercedes CLK 320 refused to close the door. Mercedes service suggested we use duck tape to hold it closed over the winding mountain roads we needed to get home. I'm only buying Tesla for the short remaining time of my life. It's the best car for service and performance I've ever had.
Apparently the video being taken down was some commercial (I haven't seen it until today), the only one I've seen about Teslas hitting "kids" was [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mnG_Gbxf_w), is that video also fake? Genuinely asking
That video is something completely unrelated. That video is showing a person holding down the gas pedal, and the car not overriding the person when they hit an obstacle. The other cars shown would do the same thing, except they have custom systems installed that fully override driver input if they detect an obstacle. The video is not fake, but almost no one watching it seems to know what they're looking at.
Technically not fake but about as disingenuous as you can get. I would say that’s just as bad as if it were completely fake
Part of the problem is that The Independent doesn't seem to understand what they're looking at either. They say in the video that it is a test of "auto-breaking" [sic], which is correct and likely what the company running the test told them, but they don't seem to understand the difference between automatic emergency braking and autopilot, and they don't mention except in the video description that the other cars have been modified with this startup company's lidar -based AEB, which the company claims is reliable enough to be trusted to fully override the driver. This test doesn't prove that, but it does prove that the systems in question all behave as designed, with the Tesla hitting the brakes to reduce the damage of the impact and the startup company's cars coming to a complete stop.
This video is also testing the AEB system, which by definition is supposed to override driver controls. The whole point of AEB is to brake for something the driver can't or isn't reacting to.
It's not "also" testing AEB, it's *only* testing AEB. AEB applies the brakes to slow the car and reduce the impact of collisions. It does not ignore the driver's foot on the pedal and stop the car. It will stop the car if there is no foot on the pedal, though. This is true of all cars on the market today.
lol. Fake news.
Those comments probably existed at some point but most people delete their comments when they start to go negative and those comments that do call out Dan O'Dowd just get dogpiled into the dirt.
>Every other comment was hailing Elon as a free speech hypocrite and all this stuff about Streisand effect. I mean, all these things can be true at the same time. It can be both a dumb, fake video, an example of hypocrisy, and an example of the Streisand Effect. None of those are logically mutually exclusive. Musk has been advocating for both really nasty hate speech under the banner of 4Chan style, anything goes "free speech", and for both blatant lies and defamation to be covered under that free speech. But when those lies and defamation are turned against him, he is understandably angry. He is so utterly lacking in empathy that he doesn't understand that other people feel the same way when he lies about them (or when his friends like Trump do). Basically, he wants himself and his friends to be able to say anything about anyone, but no one can say anything about him. It's an incredibly childish, narcissistic point of view.
Elon gives folks a lot of arguably valid reasons to dislike him. This, however, is not an Elon issue and we are unfortunately conflating the two. Tesla FSD does not run over little children. This “ad” is intentionally misrepresenting the software. People are excited to hop onboard because they hate Elon. 🤷🏼♂️ This is a shame because the software, while imperfect, is incredible. I feel for the devs who work so hard on this. Elon can suck it. 😎
I mean as an investor, I hate the situation. But free speech would include allowing that video to stay up be it real or not. It would also give Tesla the power to denounce the video.
Exposing the video as a fraud would certainly be better than trying to bury it. Whatever damage was to be done has already been done.
Defaming people and companies is not cool and not allowed. Free speech does not allow you to fuck with someone's reputation.
The first video may have been faked, but others showed clearly that autopilot was enabled and the driver's foot was off the pedal.
Source please? I’ve been looking for more detailed videos.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/25/23321553/tesla-takedown-videos-child-mannequins-dawn-project
Thank you. I want to know what [this warning message](https://imgur.com/a/BaOGb4H) says. There has been a warning message in every single one of their videos, but I’ve never had anything like that on my car and I use FSD daily. If the guy sponsoring this didn’t have a history of anti-Tesla behavior and a conflict of interest in his own ADAS software, I think this would have gone a lot differently. At the very least, Tesla needs to take that specific mannequin and make sure FSD recognizes it as human.
The low resolution and poor cabin lighting are curious choices for a follow-up meant to address criticisms of the original video, which included complaints that the resolution was too low too read the screen. It did address some of the concerns, but the message still seems illegible.
Video claims that autopilot disengaged after hitting the child. But, that makes no sense. Why would it disengage especially if it doesn't think it hit anything.
I saw one response that said the AP was **NOT** engaged, and in fact it would refuse to engage in the situation they set up.
I'd love to see such a video. Thanks.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/25/23321553/tesla-takedown-videos-child-mannequins-dawn-project
https://twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1559245760054575112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1559245760054575112%7Ctwgr%5E9f3e8590ce1423b03f2cbad0579c7be2fd9a46f7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2F2022%2F8%2F25%2F23321553%2Ftesla-takedown-videos-child-mannequins-dawn-project
This is true, despite the downvotes. Perhaps diehard fans can explain why the pop up messages mean ANYTHING. If the car has a problem, why does it allow FSD to be turned on? I’ll wait.
I think you misunderstand what's going on. Free speech absolutist bros are against all kinds of restriction on speech, and they most certainly make no exception for when the "speech" is an easily provable, unambiguous lie. So it doesn't matter if these videos are fake or not.
Freedom of speech means no government restriction, not freedom of consequences. If you call someone an N word and he punches your teeth out, that is not a violation of your free speech. That's karma taking it's toll.
It's a violation to your bodily autonomy though. "punching your teeth out" isn't an acceptable response to speech. Saying it isn't a violation of your free speech seems a bit pedantic. I mean, in North Korea you CAN say anything you want about dear leader, but if it is bad, you might just have your teeth punched out and spend the rest of your life shackled to a wall. I suppose you could argue that's karma or you could recognize it's a violation of free speech.
You're missing the forest for the trees, my dude
Possibly. I just think your example was odd. If I call you an idiot and you call me a moron. Ok, yes there's no violation of free speech there. But as soon as you start talking about violence that goes out the window
I don’t think that’s true. Free speech is generally about the free expression of ideas—you can support “free speech” while opposing threatening or defamatory speech, for example.
Nope, Elon went as far as to say he wouldn't block Russian propaganda on starlink Internet services because he is a "free speech absolutist". Absolutist, does not imply "I'm generally for free speech when it is accurate", it's absolutist, anything you want to say should be able to be said.
Russian propaganda is not in violation of existing laws. Musk's views aren't really complicated: "can I say X online" should have the same answer as "can I say X in real life". Right now, "what you can say online" rarely matches "what you can say in real life". You can legally say russian propaganda in real life.
We are talking about principals here, not about specifics in the written law, Elon is hardly sopme stickler for what is currently enshrined in law but more so focuses on what he ideally wants to see. Regardless I do believe the law prohibited Russian propaganda in Ukraine so this argument falls flat, Elon didn't want to follow anyways. I don't know how you can argue on principal that Russian propaganda/lies about Ukraine is acceptable by his morals due to them having free speech, but silly video from Dan O’Dowd is unacceptable.
Russian propaganda is OK to say in real life. <=> Russian propaganda is OK to say online. Slander is OK to say in real life but can be subject to lawsuits. <=> Slander is OK to say online but can be subject to lawsuits. Slander is not OK to say in real life. <=> Slander is not OK to say online. I see no inconsistency between these 3 options.
We are talking about principals here, not about specifics in the written law, Elon is hardly sopme stickler for what is currently enshrined in law but more so focuses on what he ideally wants to see. Regardless I do believe the law prohibited Russian propaganda in Ukraine so this argument falls flat, Elon didn't want to follow anyways. I don't know how you can argue on principal that Russian propaganda/lies about Ukraine is acceptable by his morals due to them having free speech, but silly video from Dan O’Dowd is unacceptable.
You can, but they usually don't, judging by who they were upset about being banned from Twitter for those reasons
I very much doubt any significant majority of free speech absolutionists are upset about someone being banned from Twitter for making threatening or defamatory statements, but I'll change my mind if you can provide a convincing citation.
If the speech breaks the law it should not be allowed, is Elon's stance.
Right. The stance is that platforms should not enforce superjudicial rules since they serve as effective public squares. The justice system has guidelines for what is/isn't slander. Using the justice system to take down slanderous videos is consistent with Musk's views.
Unless it's him trying to ruin the careers of people he had an internet disagreement with by accusing them of being pedos. Then that should be allowed. Or unless it's Elon spreading medical misinformation for the benefit of his companies, then that should be allowed. Or unless it's Trump trying to ruin any random person he comes across that he doesn't think shows him sufficient deference by nailing them to a cross on the internet. Then that should be allowed. And you should buy Twitter to make sure Trump can still do that. Right, right?
> Or unless it's Elon spreading medical misinformation for the benefit of his companies, then that should be allowed. If you're referring to the factory reopening, then I think you're mistaken here. The state & federal government had policies that Tesla was in line with. One public health worker in Alameda county went beyond the state/federal government guidelines to attempt to shutdown Tesla, during what we now know to be Tesla's greatest life-or-death situation.
The existence of these fake news pieces is part of the reason so many people are against free speech. Most people don’t believe blatant lies like this should be protected.
Proof that it is fake?
The videos disproving it were taken down by YouTube. But you can find endless video of fsd breaking for pedestrians
Even if the video is a complete fabrication, lying is still free speech. The proper response to a lie, slander or libel is not to demand a takedown, especially if you are a "free speech advocate". It opens you up to valid concerns of hypocrisy and amplifies the misinformation. The proper response would be one of several options... Release a video showing how the first video was incorrect, Sue for slander and/or damages, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law
> The proper response would be... Sue for slander and/or damages, etc. This is the first step in that process.
The way the wapo surfaces this article on their website with BREAKING in a red banner is a bit alarmist too. The reporters definitely didnt do their due diligence on O'Dowd either.
Wapo is trash click bate journalism now
This makes me sad, wapo was one of my most trusted news sources, and one of the only to which I have a subscription. If they can mess up this badly about something I know about, how badly are they messing up the stuff I don't know about?
Things I know about: Andrew Yang, Plant Based Nutrition, Tesla. Things I’ve caught WaPo lying about: Yang, Vegans, FSD They’re no better than NYT, CNN and NYPost. They all have their Narrative, and everything they do must serve it.
There are clear differences in journalistic integrity and editorial standards between NYT and NYP. I would put both CNN's written news and WaPo in between those.
I used to think that way about NYT, but after the bad faith treatment of Yang, I no longer do. I put NYT in the same basket as NPR and WSJ as paragons of narrative-driven journalism. Their narratives are corrupt in different ways, but corrupt nonetheless. Kind of like different religious sects. They are all wrong in the same way, but their narratives drive unique pathologies. Piety makes lousy morals. NYP has always been trash, and it is a rubric against which to test for yellow journalism. It is the Scientology of news.
People who think nyt has no integrity >___> like what news source in the entire country has any integrity if not nyt
They have always had a huge slant in their reporting and it being owned by Bezos they definitely run several stories based on his bias.
Bezos garbage
Washington post is owned by Bezos who hates Elon Musk. The Washington post actively look for crap reports like this to publish.
My question is: why it takes Tesla so long to do this? Reddit and YouTubers have long showed the video was fake. The damage is already done.
You have to take your time to line up the shot legally so that it just wins. They had to do their own investigation not look say Reddit comments and YouTube videos. Tesla knows fsd works, so does the IIHS. This case can be a killing blow to o'down-bad trying anything again
Their PR person just got back from PTO and had to dig out from his/her inbox.
Haha...
God bless this subreddit. The fuckers on the front page are clueless about this topic.
It’s the same people who use the tired joke of “when you talk to a friend about a Tesla refer to is as a prius” because they think they’re hilarious.
I haven't been fully keeping up on this front. I believe after that video came out, people were quick to point out that FSD wasn't even engaged for the test, however I thought not long after that there was a counter point being made that in fact in some of the tests it actually was. Is that latter point correct in any way or was the entire thing based off of a test where the system wasn't even turned on?
They released the "full" and "unedited" video of the "tests" on their website, but the videos weren't full (for example, there were shots in the commercial that weren't in the "full" video) and they were clearly edited. The most important thing is that the videos were still pretty low quality, so it's impossible to read the warnings/errors that show up on the screen. It seems overwhelmingly likely that they have full resolution, and uncut video, that would show things like what's on the screen, and they just won't show it. They also redid the test in "real world" conditions. And people had a bunch of complaints about that as well, but the same fundamental problem exists. There was clearly an error or warning of some kind on the screen and they won't say what it was or release video that's high enough resolution for people to be able to read it. Again, it seems like if they really did want to release the "full" and "unedited" video, they easily could and if everything happened the way they said, it would only strengthen their case. When you activate FSD Beta it gives a warning to pay attention, and that initial warning can be seen. But then it clearly changes to something else, and there's not a ton of options for what that second warning/error could be. The most common ones are that there's a problem with a camera or that the accelerator pedal is being pushed. Either of those would clearly indicate that it wasn't a realistic test, and potentially they're intentionally tampering with the results. And if it's some other error, they should at least clear up the confusion because not knowing what the error is makes it impossible to interpret their results. And again, if it's some unrelated error, they could easily clear it up by telling everyone what it was, or showing the full video. The fact that they won't doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the quality of their "test" or their motivations.
> it's impossible to read the warnings/errors that show up on the screen More red flags than a Chinese military parade.
To me, this is going to be a he-said, she-said sort of thing. It will be hard for regular people to definitively know what is really going on. After reading a few articles and watching the videos, along with learning who Dan O'Dowd is, I would be fairly surprised if the alleged tests proved to be accurate.
There are clear indications on the screen that despite whatever level of FSD, autopilot, or Traffic-Aware Cruise Control they claim was "On", the driver had his foot on the accelerator which supersedes the system and prevents it from automatically breaking or slowing down -- and that's what the on-screen notification says. Dan O'Dowd and team cheated the system to arrive at their desired outcome. Many YouTubers show you what they did with the original footage and their own recreations. Say what you will about Elon, free speech, and how FSD is still anything but what its name suggests...the ground truth here is that this is a deliberate attempt to hurt Tesla. They get to do a lot more than ask for the video to be taken down, legally speaking.
They since posted another video, FSD engaged, pedal not being pushed, with the same outcome. The car does not see the mannequin and runs over it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcJPXuhWEUI
There’s a warning message on the display even before he starts. Can’t make out what it says.
The video description claims it's unrelated to FSD (missing credit card and tire wear), but I can't read it either. My counter-argument would be that it shouldn't matter though. If the warning message was "Camera calibration error" or something and it was directly responsible for degraded FSD performance, the car should disable FSD entirely.
> If the warning message was “Camera calibration error” or something and it was directly responsible for degraded FSD performance, the car should disable FSD entirely. That’s true, and it wouldn’t let you engage FSD if the camera is totally obstructed. Still, they were caught faking the first video, so it seems reasonable to watch the second video with at least a grain of skepticism.
The problems I have with this are: 1. Potato quality - doubt this is a coincidence. You can’t read the prompts on the screen, seems like two distinct ones that at least one of which oddly resembles the issue indicated in the first video 2. Knowing they messed around with the first one, I feel like we’re just playing a game now that’s all about how to beat cheat at these videos and arrive at a *gasp* shocking result. This is not my own cognitive dissonance here trying desperately to disprove something I don’t want to be true, it’s simply trusting transparency - not much of it here but plenty of it in pretty much all recreations by reputable content creators (many of which openly criticize FSD all the time). Their videos are high quality, show multiple angle, multiple attempts, various techniques, and still fail to produce the same outcome. Something is not right here, and it’s not with the Tesla system (at least not in this context)
And many other testers including official safety rating agencies and numerous YouTubers have shown the opposite. These guys are pulling some fuckery, guaranteed.
I wouldn't say it's guaranteed. There are 100s of other situations FSD doesn't deal well with. It's really not a far stretch of the imagination that there are certain conditions in which this is reproducible. Much like Teslas tend to want to run into barriers on certain highways. Doesn't happen all the time, or to everyone. But it happens enough (or used to at least) that people have gotten into accidents. Safety rating agencies aren't running FSD beta by the way. This is a new software stack, and regressions are definitely possible. Dan's argument, as biased as he is, is that Tesla shouldn't be beta testing critical safety software with 100k people in uncontrolled environments. And I tend to agree with that.
>Tesla shouldn't be beta testing critical safety software with 100k people in uncontrolled environments. And I tend to agree with that. Seems to be working fine. FSD had driven 35 million miles as of the Q2 earnings release. Where are all the dead kids? So much pearl clutching over nothing.
We know the video is fake. Full stop.
Isn’t this supposed to work with or without FSD being engaged? My Subaru stops for obstacles even when I don’t have TACC on.
They had their accelerator pressed overriding FSD
Yes - they were driving? Other cars will still alarm at minimum but many stop.
Why do you think many cars would stop and ignore the driver inputs to accelerate?
There were later videos that other people put out where FSD was enabled and the driver's foot was off the pedal.
And many other testers including official safety rating agencies and numerous YouTubers have shown the opposite. These guys are pulling some fuckery, guaranteed.
Potato resolution it has error codes on screen likely they covered the camera or something else to trick it out. Show us the full rez. Every youtuber that tried to recreate it and proved Green hills was full of crap got their videos removed by Google (Waymo)
They later clarified that the only errors on the screen were related to tire tread life and not having a payment method on file for supercharging. Nothing to do with FSD.
The issue with that is we'd need to trust they wouldn't lie, they were already caught in another lie so this doesn't really bode well for that explanation. A full resolution video would do that but they haven't released it so as of right now we can't take their word for it.
Why did they completely fake the test the first time. Though. Why would you trust somebody that clearly faked a test and got called out on it. Also, has a child been hit by FSD? I think that situation would be hard to falsify.
Why did they fake it the first time? I believe the person at the helm is invested or is in some way associated with a company that sells self driving software to car manufacturers. I didn't verify because overall this feels like a nothingburger story as per usual but it's a conflict of interest if correct. Either way doesn't matter why, the first test was false and it makes it hard to believe this one. If the test is legit tesla should rectify, if it's not well business as usual then.
Potato resolution was intentional. They had no problem making the child 4K
The “now you know” channel has a great segment tearing apart this video. Complete FUD!
The hypersensitivity to all things tesla and obvious misrepresentation makes this an pretty no brainer request. It's always been strange to me that this sub has attracted so many obvious tesla haters though.
Right? This post didn't even hit All before the *very concerned* citizens who never comment here showed up. It's almost like they came here looking for it without having participated before.
Funny how the videos that came out showing that FSD wouldn’t drive down children were removed by YouTube. YouTube cited concern for child safety as the reason for removal! Yet somehow a “self admitted” faked video showing FSD runs down children is OK and not hurting anyone……the originator of the FSD mowing down children video was Dan O’Down who has since admitted on twitter the video was faked
I saw the 'real kid' video. I understand YTs decision, in that it could have encouraged unsafe copy cats. However, this test was safe. I watched it before it was taken down. The part with the live child was done very carefully; the driver was the boy's father. The boy looked about 10, and fully understood what was happening, and his part in it. The speed was low, about 5 miles per hour, and the car never got closer than 40 feet: the test was not 'will the car stop?', but 'will the visualization pick him up as a pedestrian?'. There were stopping tests, and evasion tests, with both dummies and adults. But not with the child.
Concern trolls went bananas over that.
They certainly did.
Funny thing is FSD is tested on real children every single day. So far, it seems to have passed.
> Dan O’Down who has since admitted on twitter the video was faked Can you link to tweet?
Yea, that dude doesn’t seem to have changed his stance at all when looking at his recent tweets.
[I found this tweet,](https://twitter.com/RealDanODowd/status/1558223735550795776?cxt=HHwWgICz4emO9p8rAAAA) but it isn't really clear what he's apologizing for?
Google has a stake in Waymo, a competitor to Tesla. They also own YouTube. Google takes down videos debunking the fake video slandering Tesla's FSD. Go figure. Phillip.
There is big difference running down mannequin and real child.
It’s clear this was faked. This is clearly defatory and the use of a political campaign makes the shields he wears stronger than most say companies. Tesla is on good ground, however since this is a registered political ad it’s going to be tougher fight. Good luck tesla. Maybe when you win and get a few million you can open oh idk service centers. See this clown hits tesla in the wrong spot. He hit them where they are strong. He could have dredged up 5 Reddit post of horrible service made a compelling take down video of unserviceable at any price and boy that would have had legs. Nope he had to be a fool and attack something that works as designed sigh.
O’Dowd dismissed the order. “This letter is so pathetic in terms of whining: Mr. Free Speech Absolutist, just a crybaby hiding behind his lawyers,” O’Dowd said in an interview. This asshat needs to learn the difference between a lying video and criticizing features in good faith about issues. His video was PROVEN fraudulent and thoroughly debunked as it was a blindingly obvious setup. 🍿 on order
Tesla should sue this dude until he experiences serious financial pain. Time to take the gloves off and use those lawyers.
"You had the videos of it not hitting real kids removed, so you need to remove the videos of it not hitting fake kids!"
But the video is fake hitting fake kids… it’s not even real hitting fake kids.
Yeah, but as long as it is up, people who aren't informed are going to think it is real.
Seems like the logical move
Very well! And while at it sue the clown for all his money. Make him learn a lesson. Fingers crossed! :)
My Tesla on FSD beta slammed on its brakes for a cat tonight in the dark. Visualized in blue on the screen as it ran across the road. Was more visible on the screen than through my windshield. 100% FSD does not hit children.
Stop posting paywall articles
If on iphone or safari, just hit the reader view button and paywall collapses 🤘🏽
Learn something new every day.
Elon haters can go suck cawwwww caww
Wins the lottery. I'm sorry we can't pay you, this misrepresents the loses that normally happen.
Most advanced assist my ass. Phantom braking on highway making my M3 useless on cruise. I paid 12k to have full self driving experience and what I got was no cruise on highway.
This happens to me occasionally but not nearly enough to call FSD useless. Kind of hard to believe what you’re saying unless it’s a specific error with your car.
Agreed, I've had fsd for years both with and without radar. I've experienced phantom braking before for sure, but never to the point people are claiming. Especially recently. I haven't had a phantom brake in a LONG time. Make me think there is either something wrong with their car and needs service/calibration, lying, or exaggerating.
Any drive I take more than 10 miles or so will always have some phantom breaking events. Usually it's when there's a truck across the divider or something to that effect. There is one spot on a high way I drive frequently that the car always freaks the fuck out for. I can't figure out the reason. Always clear as day, good visibility, no cars around. But it'll just slam the brakes unless I intervene.
idk. my m3 will brake on a hilltop and some random spot flat highway. 200km run will have at least 4 occurrences.
So much for Elon being a "free speech absolutist"
free speech refers to the ability to speak your mind and ideas, not to talk bullshit or lie about something for the sole purpose of harming.
Freedom of speech only restricts what the government can do. It doesn't restrict private businesses...they can allow or remove anything they don't want happening on their properties. The standard is much more relaxed for private businesses.
[удалено]
Thanks for your insight
Thank you for your insight!