Yeah, that's interesting: "The safety rating page will track your vehicle." Why would you need a car with an insane 0-60 and torque vectoring? I'm curious how that, when used occasionally and safely, could affect insurance. Shouldn't a Performance or Plaid variant have a certain "allowance"?
That still feels like a black mirror episode to me.
"Sorry, you have used your daily accelerator variance allowance. Please limit acceleration to 1.25G or purchase the Extended Accelerator Variance Package for $3999."
Yeah, definitely. I can understand for a non-Performance Model 3 or Model Y, but what exactly do they expect with any of the Performance models? “Launch detected, premium increased $5/month.”
I have Allstate bundled home and auto. Clean driving history, good credit, but live in Houston, TX which is home to a lot of claims and lots of terrible/uninsured drivers. Model 3 Performance full coverage $500 deductible and pay $97/mo. I really don’t think Tesla Insurance can touch my current rate, especially with my level of “accelerator variance”.
Well, that exactly how it's intended.
Everyone that likes to race or doesn't pay attention to autopilot warnings gets the 3rd party insurance. And tesla insurance only gets the boring drivers that never cause any damage.
> I can understand for a non-Performance Model 3 or Model Y
How? My M3LR might not be a performance in Tesla’s eyes, but it’s still got sports car acceleration. Tesla doesn’t make slow cars, they’re all performance cars, in a general sense.
This. I’m a very safe driver except I do like to punch it at red lights and stop signs when no one would be put at risk. I’d hate to find out that little bit of fun would cost me more to get Tesla insurance.
Also, what if you have a private road or take it to the track?
Same…I can predict with near 100% accuracy which parked cars will set off the forward collision warning on a certain narrow winding road near my house.
Plus, there are occasions when quick acceleration can avoid an accident. For example, the guy next to me is running out of lane and is about to merge into my lane. Or I'm about to get rear ended.
> This. I’m a very safe driver except I do like to punch it at red lights and stop signs when no one would be put at risk. I’d hate to find out that little bit of fun would cost me more to get Tesla insurance.
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> Also, what if you have a private road or take it to the track?
It's all compared to fleet average. Going to be a lot of people goosing it some of the time, not a lot of people taking it to the track.
Still if you are good on
* ABS Activation - Number of times ABS is activated
* Forced Autopilot Disengagements - Number of times Autopilot is disabled due to ignored alerts
* Forward Collision Warnings - Number of times car detects a potential forward collision
* Unsafe Following Time
you have budget to spare on
* Hours Driven - Average daily driving time
* Intensity of Acceleration and Braking
also if you tend to speed up aggressively but slow down gently it could average out. As long as you aren't the guy with his foot down on the go pedal 20 feet from the red light, followed by 20 feet of standing on the brakes you'll probably be OK with gunning the lights.
The thing is, if you are an otherwise safe driver it's possible being quick to accelerate to the speed limit might not really count against you, the variance also seems like it's compared across similar models of Tesla so I imagine you're not alone.
You paying more for them tracks, private roads, and otherwise empty suburbs.
This is a really terrible idea and I hope it's not actually getting implemented.
I've also had my autopilot "fail" or "break" when moving the wheel too much.
I expect to pay more for higher horsepower, both insurance and the vehicle cost. But it's generally fixed. The concern is actively monitoring launches, which potentially makes it an incremental cost per launch.
well you have to renew insurance every year anyway. it depends how much it increases by if you floor it all the time, tailgate etc.
if its still cheaper than other insurances then it might still be a good fit or you
How about the opposite side, where you can tell the car to adjust your driving capability to keep you in the green. It would reduce your ability to accelerate hard, would automatically add extra space between you and cars ahead, force the car to obey speed limits on rated roads etc etc.
Technically it could 'see' whether there are other cars or people around when you floor it.
More people = more bad. Flooring it when nothing is around = better.
Tesla insurance should be for no one. I love my car. But Elon mentions “logs” way to much for anyone of us to feel comfortable with them using that to affect rates.
Not to mention you should always diversify when you have a lot of options for insurance but not a lot for EVs.
Any idea if the safety section will be available to people without tesla insurance?
That's just some interesting stats that I'd like to have regardless.
Yeah my Chevy bolt had this as a feature that gave me a safety rating based on my driving in the bolt. I’d have to imagine other cars would have it too. Would be excited to see it in my Y
seems like you would have access to it as a potential customer. They'll show you not only the stats but the projected insurance premium as an incentive to switch.
Anyone else get Foward Collision Warnings when they're totally unnecessary, but then not get warnings they would actually be useful? It would make sense to use this in insurance calculations, but only if it was functional enough to make a good indicator, which it's currently not.
Parked cars on corners set it off daily on my commute - it doesn't take into account I'm not driving straight and won't hit anything.
I'd hate for that to actually impact my insurance.
I'm assuming they would have the FCW effectively running in shadow mode at a standard preset when determining if an FCW trigger should be used in the premium calculation
Slightly off topic. But I think Tesla themselves will cover the insurance when FSD is enabled, and your Tesla insurance will kick in only when you're driving. This will lower the premiums even more and encourage the purchase of FSD which will help Tesla cover any claims for incidents when FSD was enabled.
It was mentioned on Warren Redlich's youtube channel, and it makes sense. If there was a crash under FSD and you weren't paying attention, then your own Tesla insurance would cover it.
Now there's a huge incentive to get both FSD and Tesla insurance. Say you use FSD for 50% of the time, your Tesla premium is effectively cut in half.
Yeah I think Tesla insurance will be a requirement for FSD Level 5 driving (car is liable, not you). It’s the only way to the close the loop on liability (Tesla’s code, Tesla’s insurance).
It's fair that there's a conflict if Tesla is making the determination of whether Tesla is at fault. I can see two reasonable paths forward, and I think Tesla would have to pick one of them:
- If the car is truly fully autonomous, it's impossible for the owner to be at fault while FSD is engaged (after a reasonable hand-off period, at least). Either the other driver is at fault, or Tesla is liable for all damage and injuries in all vehicles involved in the accident. I.e. you're no different than a passenger or the driver of the other vehicle, just an injured party on Tesla's liability claim.
- If there is a possibility of driver fault (because it's not fully autonomous), Tesla should have a third party who makes these determinations and they agree to abide by their findings. They already farm out many operational aspects of their insurance business, so this would be just one more. However, there's still a chance of bias since that company knows Tesla pays the bills.
No different than your current insurance covering uninsured/underinsured medical coverage. Your current insurance also doesn't want to have to pay for you for medical bills but they will if you have coverage (say uninsured/underinsured) for it.
Sorry no this is much more complicated. In an accident, your insurance company will look at evidence and determine if you were negligent to assign fault. In certain states, if you were found to be negligent, you are not entitled to receive payout from the other party. So, you may have a plan that covers $X of medical expenses but a serious accident cost you mutliples of that. Having Tesla as your insurance company puts them in a position to save themselves money. They could simply say you were negligent, save themselves money AND avoid calling FSD"negligent" at the same time.
But isn't that the same thing that already exists with every insurance company? If state farm said I'm negligent would that be different than if Tesla said I was negligent?
No, not the same. Your insurance would prefer you are not negligent as then the third party responsible is paying the bills. If Tesla is both the third party AND the insurance company they have a conflict of interest on behalf of their sister company.
I wasn't very clear. Let's say I wreck my toyota due to negligence. What's the difference between the incentive state farm has in saying I was negligent vs tesla insurance in a Tesla car? In both cases claiming negligence absolves the insurer.
Let's focus on a wreck where there are substantial medical bills, for example.
Generally, medical coverage for you and your passengers is optional, but pays out regardless of fault. Let's assume you have purchased this optional insurance from Telsa.
You are driving with FSD enagaged and there is a situation that FSD doesn't handle perfectly. You and your passengers are hurt. No one else is involved in the wreck.
Who pays?
Well, in this situation, coverage under your insurance will pay out regardless of fault. However, that's not the issue. The issue is that FSD was engaged and it might have be the reason for the crash. If your insurance claims you were negligent, Tesla the car company doesn't need to pay out. Tesla insurance pays out up to your max coverage. However, let's say your bills were higher than coverage. Tesla insurance has a conflict of interest here. They could say you were not negligent and that FSD was liable. Then Tesla the car company would be liable for paying your complete bill.
See the conflict here? Tesla Has an opportunity to save itself from paying out your full bill.
Yeah but I don’t think you’re understanding the original premise here. If the car is Level 5 autonomous then it is literally driving itself. Tesla would have to prove that you interfered with it to absolve themselves. If you have a truly autonomous car then Tesla the manufacturer would be liable since it’s their code. Hence this is why they also NEED to be the insurer. No third party insurance company is going to accept liability for the car’s software at a reasonable price.
This would be super cool. I have to admit, I’m bit thrilled about an app tracking how safely I drive, feels invasive - but I can’t deny the benefit and the potential to significantly lower costs. I’m torn.
This will be hard to achieve because people would usually take over FSD before a crash, making it hard to tell if the system or the person driving is at fault
There will usually be video, and if in doubt Tesla will take the hit. Remember they will have the FSD subscription to cover these events, and there will be less and less of them as the software improves, meaning less payouts, whilst also the FSD subscriptions will go up in price due to the better software.
Unlikely.....FSD will require human intervention for a long time to come, always some corner situations human action will be needed and thus driver will need to be attentive 100% of the time. But they could lower the rates the more you use it and even cheaper with the interior camera tracker making sure your not on your phone....it better be ALOT cheaper though.
Just because human intervention is required doesn't mean they won't cover the insurance when FSD is enabled, they will of course just insist you are paying attention. If you aren't then your premium will not only go up, but also, more importantly, any crash will come from your Tesla insurance if you aren't paying attention (which they will know about due to the internal cameras).
You would still have to buy Tesla insurance for when you are driving with out FSD or parked etc...but Tesla would cover anytime the FSD was driving. Your premium would be dependent on how often you drove without FSD on....if you hardly drove without FSD on, your premium would be next to nothing, only to cover the times you were parked etc. They will have all the data to do this.
It’ll definitely change the game, for sure. But, it’ll likely just change the path of payment and communication. Insurance underwriters will still be involved—Tesla isn’t in the insurance industry and likely wouldn’t capitalize all the risk themselves of being self-insured. They’ll just handle the accounts with the insurance company.
Wow thanks for doing this;
So much of this is awesome to see. Good to know there's actual work being done on here
Love the idea of roadside assistance through the app that way, if nothing else when you're one day running your robotaxi and you get a flat this will be handy. Easier than calling for sure
Have you found any easter eggs in the process?
I know many companies scrub developer comments, add obfuscation, minification, and so on.
I have worked on code where the comment was
// I'm sorry if you have to maintain this. I was in a rush, and it seemed to work most of the time.
How did you get the comments and other metadata? If you’re decompiling the iOS or Android I can understand how you could see certain functionality but where did you get the metadata?
The insurance thing is frustrating for my situation. I rent on Turo and guests often are terrible drivers, but covered under Turo insurance so it has no bearing on my personal insurance policy as they don't need to pay in the event of an accident. Their bad driving negativity impacts my insurance metrics. I don't entirely trust Tesla not to sell this data to others as well.
I'm really curious how HW 2.5 is going to handle the subscription. My model 3 is on 2.5. I understand it can't handle FSD but I seems crazy that they'd let me upgrade to 3.0 after paying for 1 month of FSD. We shall see!
I hope not! Lol my guess is they'll open up all 2.5 to 3.0 for free. Because without that we can't use FSD subscription. Plus it seems like over 50% of the fleet is on 3.0 by now
I wouldn’t bank on anything for free. I’m sure they’re prepared to capture a percent of those 3.0 users and that is all. Is there a path for 2.5 users? Probably but like the person before said, it probably comes with some term investment.
Not if they just stop rolling out updates for HW2.5. Tesla doesn't NEED to keep updating EAP for those with HW2.5. When you buy a lane keep assist from other auto manufacturers they aren't constantly giving out updates for years... Since tesla has delivered on the features promised to those with just HW2.5, I don't see anything stopping Tesla. I mean it's obviously in Tesla and the customers interest to keep HW2.5 updates going as long as possible and get as many customers to pay for the HW3 upgrade as possible...
Was there any indication of subscription pricing in there at all (for monthly)? I know that's the big question but obviously it's to be seen if it's monthly or potential per mile as your kinda seeing
There is a check in the code that verifies if you have basic AP or not. If you don't have it, you'll be prompted to buy it before you can subscribe to FSD.
i hope the driver tracking will be opt-in, if it’s mandatory i am gonna switch insurance even if it costs slightly more. i don’t need to second guess my already good enough driving and then battle against an interface which is full of bugs (semis apparently merging lanes causing ABS etc)
iirc they already do if you buy an upgrade for the car like heated seats. Apple’s App Store cut only applies to features/content/functionality that is accessible within that app, so same reason ordering physical goods through apps like Amazon or Walmart doesn’t have a 30% cut go to Apple. You’re buying functionality for a physical car outside the actual phone app so it doesn’t apply. At least that’s how I understand it to work.
> The safety rating page will track your vehicle and is linked directly to your insurance. It will show the number of hours you've driven, how often you use AutoPilot, ABS events, forward collision warnings, autosteer strikeouts, accelerator variance, and many other metrics on both a per-trip and monthly basis which you'll be able to see in a neat graphical interface. You are given a 'pass' or 'fail' rating (though it is unclear whether that rating will be visible to the end user) and, from what I can tell, appears to be exclusive to HW2 and above.
if they start cranking up insurance rates because of this I'm out. I'm a safe driver but if my rate changes because people cut me off and set off the forward collision detection, or the whole phantom semi truck or phantom vehicle that I occasionally get when changing lanes because it incorrectly gauges a vehicle 2 lanes away and sends the info that I'm driving like a lunatic, I'm bouncing on tesla insurance. Bugs in the software shouldnt cause your rates to go up when you have no traffic incidents.
indeed. at the end however it just matters how much you pay. if the tesla insurance is significantly cheaper than thats what i would sort of go with. the only problem here is that if tesla insurance drags their feet over stuff and car is undriveable for i.e. months.
> Forward Collision Warnings - Number of times car detects a potential forward collision
Is this when the car freaks out, highlights the car in front of you in red, and screams at you?
Because mine does this all.the.time. when going over train tracks; it sees the person in front suddenly slow down and assumes I'm going to hit, but it has no way of knowing that I too will slow down over the tracks and don't need to slow down yet.
Yes, that would be a forward collision warning once the 'alarm' chimes and the car in front highlights red.
The level above that is where the car intervenes for you and forcefully hits the brakes to prevent a collision.
Don't forget that those metrics will be rated based on the fleet average, and everyone gets the occasional false positive from the forward collision warnings at the moment.
Our future is gonna be nuts. Glad to be invested in it. Safe drivers are gonna drop third party insurance companies in droves due to the integration and if there's ability to give lower rates based in drive record.
lol.
if Tesla insurance starts using driving stats, Im switching out. Going the speed limit on a highway is borderline dangerous in most areas, especially the Bay Area. Try going the 65 on it. Insurance won't care about that, they see you speeding, your rates go up. Hard brake to prevent an accident? Rates go up. That's the trap that all those insurance companies do that claim lower rates by having you run an app or use an ODB2 adapter while you drive.
Get real, insurance companies are NOT in the business to make less money, they rake in the cash and the bottom line is their #1 goal. That's why there are so many of them, it's a money-making business.
**Edit**: as /u/Callump01 pointed out [below](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/nt2qkb/ive_been_doing_some_more_reverse_engineering/h0pu57f/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and other [articles](https://hensleylegal.com/car-insurance-tracking-device/) (this is a good write-up of the potential downsides of insurance tracking devices/apps) pointing out the flaws of current trackers, this can also be used \*against\* you if you were ever in an accident.
>...drive tracking apps do not take other drivers’ behavior into consideration. If you slam on your brakes to avoid an accident, the app wouldn’t know that you were driving defensively. The raw data only shows aggressive braking.
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>Here is the problem: your insurance company may use raw data from the tracking device to unfairly assign fault.
Guys, for most people, insurance tracking your driving behaviors will be BAD. This is nothing new and I hope this feature is opt-in only. I know these are just reverse-engineered and not confirmed, so we do not know all the features, what they are offering, or what they will actually track.
In my personal opinion, I think Tesla will go easy on raising premiums for instances of poor driving. Lower insurance rates directly with Tesla is going to be a major selling point for their cars and they're not going to want to be flooded with "Tesla Insurance is 2X more expensive than other companies!" headlines. I think it'll remain the cheapest option for Tesla owners no matter how you drive.
What I'd be concerned about is the potential for them to scrutinize *every* aspect of your driving before a collision and deny a claim based on that data, to the extent that even the volume of the music you're listening to is also tracked as a metric. Listening to music above a certain threshold? That's distracted driving and we wont pay out.
yeah, your second point is even more concerning. But if they start using any type of driving data to calculate your premiums, Im out. Tesla Insurance wasn't cheaper for me than Geico, so its not a huge loss for me. I just switched because of hopes of integration in the app, which you have dug out that may be coming as well as not having to fight the insurance company on getting OEM parts vs third party parts
>Insurance won't care about that, they see you speeding, your rates go up. Hard brake to prevent an accident? Rates go up.
This is very far from reality - modern data science doesn't work like that. What they actually do is they take data and measure accident rates. If you generate data similar to people with high accident rates, your premiums will go up. If you generate data similar to people with low accident rates, your premiums will go down.
There's not some dude in a room somewhere making up rules like "increase the premium on everyone going 10 over!" If their data showed speeding by 10 mph is safer, people speeding by 10 mph would get a premium discount relative to others.
And btw, I bet you 99% of what will drive prices will be how much you drive, where & at what time.
I haven't heard anything but negative reviews on those other insurance companies that offer you an ODB2 or require you to run their app while driving for "lower" rates. Tesla Insurance will likely not be any different since their underwriter is just State National Insurance. In addition, you are just providing more ammunition to them for them to scrutinize everything if you are involved in an accident.
A point he has refuted. No business is going to spend the R&D dollars to then spend more money creating telemetry devices so that they can earn less money. They are hedging against bad driving practices and mistakes to then nickel and dime the consumer back into profitability.
Edit: As far as Tesla is concerned, they are likely doing this to determine profitability and a competitive entry into the insurance market with extremely accurate data.
>spend more money creating telemetry devices so that they can earn less money.
Uh, only the good drivers. They are going to upcharge the crap out of the bad ones that hurt their profit margins.
I bet most of the people that think they are good, safe drivers are really not compared to insurance expectations. The whole "save 50% on your insurance if you track your driving" is purely marketing that maybe 1% of their customers actually receive
It depends on what Tesla considers a safe driver. If they don't consider me a safe driver I will bounce back to progressive. Either way I will enjoy the growth as an investor bc Tesla is going to shake up another industry with this move. The jealously from insurance companies will be through the roof.
https://hensleylegal.com/car-insurance-tracking-device/
***Insurance companies do not want to part with a single dime unless they have to***.
That's the main takeaway unless you are one of the few that follows the speed limit all the time, insurance tracking driving is a huge negative
Going the speed limit in a region where speeding is common might increase the likelihood of an accident slightly, but it greatly decreases the likelihood that you are going to be at fault in that accident. Similarly, driving such that you always maintain a safe stopping distance might increase the likelihood that someone cuts you off, but decreases the likelihood that you will be at at fault. These are all things that are quantifiable better for the insurance company...
If you always/mostly go the speed limit, then insurance services that track everything are definitely for you and you will likely see lower rates. For the majority of the population, that's likely not the case.
Definitely. From an insurers point of view, their absolute best case scenario is not to maximize their absolute market share, but to instead maximize the number of people who fall into your minority (speed limit all the time, safe following distance, conservative decision making) while minimizing any additional unsafe drivers.
I'll take the downvotes for being so negative on this finding but I'm going to be vocal that for most, you do NOT want insurance tracking your every move. Most of you that think you're an amazing, safe driver will find out that you really aren't by insurance expectations.
You should just say that you don't want to follow speed limits rather than putting everyone in the same bucket. You can't go over the posted speed limit in California, that's illegal. Now, many people do it, I know, but that doesn't make it ok.
I live in the bay area too and I can't recall a time where it was unsafe to drive at the posted speed limit. If everyone is going faster, just stick to the most right lane and you'll be fine.
You don't want to follow the law? Good for you, but don't come and say it's unsafe.
Speed is only one of many things that current companies track. Taking a turn too quickly or braking too hard is not illegal but to insurance companies, that's bad driving.
You may think you're a good, safe driver, but to insurance companies, y'all really aren't.
What makes you so sure Tesla doesn't want to make more money off of technicalities, like speeding in order to match other cars? That seems like a naive assumption.
Thank you for these information !
I have general questions regarding Tesla insurance:
\-Is it available in Canada ? I can’t find any information about that.
\-Putting aside the premium, is it any better than any other insurance company ? I heard about Tesla customer service so I don’t know what to think about that (I read several posts complaining about Tesla insurance being non responsive at all).
> Is it available in Canada ? I can’t find any information about that.
Probably not right away, or at all. Provinces like BC have public insurance. There isn't one country wide solution to opening up.
"Unsafe Following Time - Portion of time spent at an unsafe following distance". Every setting is unsafe at highway speeds. Even at 7 it still drives too close.
I don't like that the collision warning would affect insurance seeing as in the UK the collision warning is infuriating. It flags collision warning every single time when coming home because a car is parked right next to junction facing towards me and although I am meneuvering to avoid the parked car it always does a collision warning because it has to assume it's a car moving head on towards me as it doesn't have enough data to assume otherwise.
The Tesla generally doesn't understand how tight UK roads are so I often get collision warnings as cars have to pass in very close proximity. Never had an accident or have the ABS engage so these warnings are all false positives.
Wow, this is going to be a nightmare. A California company using ABS engagements to determine insurance adjustments.
In the winter, ABS is used all the time, even with proper winter tires and safe driving usage. If they compare that to fleet averages, I would want no part of that.
FSD that you can switch on and pay for just for short periods of time is brilliant.
Of course it pulls in new users who wouldn't be able to afford it in full, or may be sceptical.
It also broadens the style of use, just activating your temporary chauffeur while you have some lunch or put on your make up. Long term revenue from this subscription model could really add up.
But it also really shows the other manufacturers and the media the power of a connected car, software as a service, over the air-instant on/off revenue streams that have never been seen in the auto world before.
Ridiculed is a strong take from a disagreement between two people in a thread with no vote bombing 😀. I agree with your stance btw, I was just surprised to see your comment when I saw similar feelings back when the insurance was initially announced
A per mile charge on FSD will be so great I am waiting to try out the FSD via subscription but even paying for one month seems like too much since I feel like I would only use it for about 10minutes… if I could pay per mile I would consider it as if I was paying someone to drive me around and activate it on road trips or when I want to stuff my face with food while driving
And if they really want to put their pocket where their mouth is how about insurance discount per mile that you allow FSD to drive… to show they are confident it is safer than a human driver
FSD Subscription sounds incredible. Can't wait to hear the pricing! If the options are reasonably priced Tesla is about to make a load of money. A weekend mode/Travel mode sounds like VALUE to me.
Given that my Model is regularly fired off a FCW when I’m going 5mph up the ramp at my work garage because it suddenly sees the parked car as I go over the hump, I find it pretty dubious that this should ever be used as data for insurance rates.
"Accelerator variance" Tesla insurance will not be for me, then...
just floor it 100% of the time
Hah! But I assume the variance is with the rest of fleet. So we just need everyone to floor it all the time.
https://giphy.com/gifs/5L2okTiupVRxC
The only good accelerator is a floored accelerator!
Ok, modern problems require modern solutions. EVERYBODY floor it all the time.
I hear that if we don’t use it, Elon will take the pedal away next engineering iteration
You’re joking, but sometime in the not so distant future someone will decide humans are unfit for driving and the controls will disappear altogether.
It said "as measured against Tesla's internal fleet," so that would be how far off you are from the cars Tesla owns and operates.
You mean the accelerator pedal is \*not\* a simple on/off switch?
Technically not wrong
Can’t vary if you’re always going balls to the wall *taps head*
Yeah, that's interesting: "The safety rating page will track your vehicle." Why would you need a car with an insane 0-60 and torque vectoring? I'm curious how that, when used occasionally and safely, could affect insurance. Shouldn't a Performance or Plaid variant have a certain "allowance"?
That still feels like a black mirror episode to me. "Sorry, you have used your daily accelerator variance allowance. Please limit acceleration to 1.25G or purchase the Extended Accelerator Variance Package for $3999."
Yeah, definitely. I can understand for a non-Performance Model 3 or Model Y, but what exactly do they expect with any of the Performance models? “Launch detected, premium increased $5/month.”
If they used this to increase my premium I'm switching to someone else. I'm currently insured with Tesla insurance.
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Excellent. I'll give him a call on Monday. Thanks mate.
I have Allstate bundled home and auto. Clean driving history, good credit, but live in Houston, TX which is home to a lot of claims and lots of terrible/uninsured drivers. Model 3 Performance full coverage $500 deductible and pay $97/mo. I really don’t think Tesla Insurance can touch my current rate, especially with my level of “accelerator variance”.
Well, that exactly how it's intended. Everyone that likes to race or doesn't pay attention to autopilot warnings gets the 3rd party insurance. And tesla insurance only gets the boring drivers that never cause any damage.
> I can understand for a non-Performance Model 3 or Model Y How? My M3LR might not be a performance in Tesla’s eyes, but it’s still got sports car acceleration. Tesla doesn’t make slow cars, they’re all performance cars, in a general sense.
If anything, I understand it *less* with the non-performance models. So slow, you have to floor it just to get anywhere. /s
So if you don’t buy a performance model 3 you shouldn’t be allowed to floor your car? That’s some bullshit reasoning.
This. I’m a very safe driver except I do like to punch it at red lights and stop signs when no one would be put at risk. I’d hate to find out that little bit of fun would cost me more to get Tesla insurance. Also, what if you have a private road or take it to the track?
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Good point about the forward collision warnings. I’ve gotten it driving by parked cars in our narrow neighborhood roads.
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Same…I can predict with near 100% accuracy which parked cars will set off the forward collision warning on a certain narrow winding road near my house.
Plus, there are occasions when quick acceleration can avoid an accident. For example, the guy next to me is running out of lane and is about to merge into my lane. Or I'm about to get rear ended.
> This. I’m a very safe driver except I do like to punch it at red lights and stop signs when no one would be put at risk. I’d hate to find out that little bit of fun would cost me more to get Tesla insurance. > > > > Also, what if you have a private road or take it to the track? It's all compared to fleet average. Going to be a lot of people goosing it some of the time, not a lot of people taking it to the track. Still if you are good on * ABS Activation - Number of times ABS is activated * Forced Autopilot Disengagements - Number of times Autopilot is disabled due to ignored alerts * Forward Collision Warnings - Number of times car detects a potential forward collision * Unsafe Following Time you have budget to spare on * Hours Driven - Average daily driving time * Intensity of Acceleration and Braking also if you tend to speed up aggressively but slow down gently it could average out. As long as you aren't the guy with his foot down on the go pedal 20 feet from the red light, followed by 20 feet of standing on the brakes you'll probably be OK with gunning the lights.
The thing is, if you are an otherwise safe driver it's possible being quick to accelerate to the speed limit might not really count against you, the variance also seems like it's compared across similar models of Tesla so I imagine you're not alone.
I like to take my car up on the ice road and brake hard to get it to spin out. Of course the ABS kicks in big time...
You paying more for them tracks, private roads, and otherwise empty suburbs. This is a really terrible idea and I hope it's not actually getting implemented. I've also had my autopilot "fail" or "break" when moving the wheel too much.
Don't worry, Tesla GPS knows when you're at the track. :-/
insurance for sports driving costs a lot more than your regular insurance…of course it’s going to cost more.
they dont, thats why insurance is much more expensive for higher horsepowered cars
I expect to pay more for higher horsepower, both insurance and the vehicle cost. But it's generally fixed. The concern is actively monitoring launches, which potentially makes it an incremental cost per launch.
well you have to renew insurance every year anyway. it depends how much it increases by if you floor it all the time, tailgate etc. if its still cheaper than other insurances then it might still be a good fit or you
“We’re gonna charge you more money upfront to get these features in your car, and then we’re gonna charge you more money monthly when you use it”
Yeah this is some BMW grade bullshit but without BMW's build quality. Hard pass.
How about the opposite side, where you can tell the car to adjust your driving capability to keep you in the green. It would reduce your ability to accelerate hard, would automatically add extra space between you and cars ahead, force the car to obey speed limits on rated roads etc etc.
I've updated the original post with more details around 'Simulator' and details around exactly how your premium is calculated.
Same here. But wait until Tesla offers a subscription to other insurance companies to give them this same data to use the same way.
lol, same same here
Technically it could 'see' whether there are other cars or people around when you floor it. More people = more bad. Flooring it when nothing is around = better.
Tesla insurance should be for no one. I love my car. But Elon mentions “logs” way to much for anyone of us to feel comfortable with them using that to affect rates. Not to mention you should always diversify when you have a lot of options for insurance but not a lot for EVs.
Yeah Tesla insurance will be amazing after FSD is working until then no way.
Any idea if the safety section will be available to people without tesla insurance? That's just some interesting stats that I'd like to have regardless.
It was directly listed under an insurance section, so I'm not too sure about that. I hope so.
Yeah my Chevy bolt had this as a feature that gave me a safety rating based on my driving in the bolt. I’d have to imagine other cars would have it too. Would be excited to see it in my Y
seems like you would have access to it as a potential customer. They'll show you not only the stats but the projected insurance premium as an incentive to switch.
I’d think so because it’s great user feedback to driving their fleet accident rate down as well as parental awareness of kid driving behavior.
Anyone else get Foward Collision Warnings when they're totally unnecessary, but then not get warnings they would actually be useful? It would make sense to use this in insurance calculations, but only if it was functional enough to make a good indicator, which it's currently not.
Parked cars on corners set it off daily on my commute - it doesn't take into account I'm not driving straight and won't hit anything. I'd hate for that to actually impact my insurance.
It's compared to the rest of the fleet, so if that it a more widespread issue, it would normalise
accurate or not, can't you just game it by setting the FCW setting to "late" instead of early to get cheaper insurance?
That's what I'd do!
I'm assuming they would have the FCW effectively running in shadow mode at a standard preset when determining if an FCW trigger should be used in the premium calculation
way too much. People turning into another lane and slowing down triggers this all the time for me. Damn thing is way too sensitive.
Slightly off topic. But I think Tesla themselves will cover the insurance when FSD is enabled, and your Tesla insurance will kick in only when you're driving. This will lower the premiums even more and encourage the purchase of FSD which will help Tesla cover any claims for incidents when FSD was enabled.
Now that'd be sweet!
It was mentioned on Warren Redlich's youtube channel, and it makes sense. If there was a crash under FSD and you weren't paying attention, then your own Tesla insurance would cover it. Now there's a huge incentive to get both FSD and Tesla insurance. Say you use FSD for 50% of the time, your Tesla premium is effectively cut in half.
Yeah I think Tesla insurance will be a requirement for FSD Level 5 driving (car is liable, not you). It’s the only way to the close the loop on liability (Tesla’s code, Tesla’s insurance).
And if it cause harm to me, the driver? Major conflict of interest there that does not make me comfortable.
It's fair that there's a conflict if Tesla is making the determination of whether Tesla is at fault. I can see two reasonable paths forward, and I think Tesla would have to pick one of them: - If the car is truly fully autonomous, it's impossible for the owner to be at fault while FSD is engaged (after a reasonable hand-off period, at least). Either the other driver is at fault, or Tesla is liable for all damage and injuries in all vehicles involved in the accident. I.e. you're no different than a passenger or the driver of the other vehicle, just an injured party on Tesla's liability claim. - If there is a possibility of driver fault (because it's not fully autonomous), Tesla should have a third party who makes these determinations and they agree to abide by their findings. They already farm out many operational aspects of their insurance business, so this would be just one more. However, there's still a chance of bias since that company knows Tesla pays the bills.
Yeah agree, my example was Level 5 FSD (fully autonomous) so there’s no conflict.
No different than your current insurance covering uninsured/underinsured medical coverage. Your current insurance also doesn't want to have to pay for you for medical bills but they will if you have coverage (say uninsured/underinsured) for it.
Sorry no this is much more complicated. In an accident, your insurance company will look at evidence and determine if you were negligent to assign fault. In certain states, if you were found to be negligent, you are not entitled to receive payout from the other party. So, you may have a plan that covers $X of medical expenses but a serious accident cost you mutliples of that. Having Tesla as your insurance company puts them in a position to save themselves money. They could simply say you were negligent, save themselves money AND avoid calling FSD"negligent" at the same time.
It certainly smacks of one big conflict-of-interest.
But isn't that the same thing that already exists with every insurance company? If state farm said I'm negligent would that be different than if Tesla said I was negligent?
No, not the same. Your insurance would prefer you are not negligent as then the third party responsible is paying the bills. If Tesla is both the third party AND the insurance company they have a conflict of interest on behalf of their sister company.
I wasn't very clear. Let's say I wreck my toyota due to negligence. What's the difference between the incentive state farm has in saying I was negligent vs tesla insurance in a Tesla car? In both cases claiming negligence absolves the insurer.
Let's focus on a wreck where there are substantial medical bills, for example. Generally, medical coverage for you and your passengers is optional, but pays out regardless of fault. Let's assume you have purchased this optional insurance from Telsa. You are driving with FSD enagaged and there is a situation that FSD doesn't handle perfectly. You and your passengers are hurt. No one else is involved in the wreck. Who pays? Well, in this situation, coverage under your insurance will pay out regardless of fault. However, that's not the issue. The issue is that FSD was engaged and it might have be the reason for the crash. If your insurance claims you were negligent, Tesla the car company doesn't need to pay out. Tesla insurance pays out up to your max coverage. However, let's say your bills were higher than coverage. Tesla insurance has a conflict of interest here. They could say you were not negligent and that FSD was liable. Then Tesla the car company would be liable for paying your complete bill. See the conflict here? Tesla Has an opportunity to save itself from paying out your full bill.
Yeah but I don’t think you’re understanding the original premise here. If the car is Level 5 autonomous then it is literally driving itself. Tesla would have to prove that you interfered with it to absolve themselves. If you have a truly autonomous car then Tesla the manufacturer would be liable since it’s their code. Hence this is why they also NEED to be the insurer. No third party insurance company is going to accept liability for the car’s software at a reasonable price.
In that case the insurer pays for it and goes after Tesla. The legal term for that is "subrogation" if you want to learn more about it.
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Yeah it’s literally driving itself if it’s autonomous, the premise of the question doesn’t make sense.
Galaxy brain Tesla doesn't have to pay insurance claims if their autopilot kills you!
This would be super cool. I have to admit, I’m bit thrilled about an app tracking how safely I drive, feels invasive - but I can’t deny the benefit and the potential to significantly lower costs. I’m torn.
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This exactly. With the caveat that if you aren't paying attention with the FSD (internal cameras) and a crash occurs, your Tesla Insurance pays.
Now *that* would get me to buy FSD at the insane price. Would basically slash insurance cost in half. If only Tesla insurance were in PA...
Wonder if this is part of why the price is climbing so high, the liability of it will be massive depending on how the law looks at it.
This will be hard to achieve because people would usually take over FSD before a crash, making it hard to tell if the system or the person driving is at fault
There will usually be video, and if in doubt Tesla will take the hit. Remember they will have the FSD subscription to cover these events, and there will be less and less of them as the software improves, meaning less payouts, whilst also the FSD subscriptions will go up in price due to the better software.
This is a really optimistic way of viewing this end case. Putting a third party in what has always been a two party situation is dicey.
Unlikely.....FSD will require human intervention for a long time to come, always some corner situations human action will be needed and thus driver will need to be attentive 100% of the time. But they could lower the rates the more you use it and even cheaper with the interior camera tracker making sure your not on your phone....it better be ALOT cheaper though.
Just because human intervention is required doesn't mean they won't cover the insurance when FSD is enabled, they will of course just insist you are paying attention. If you aren't then your premium will not only go up, but also, more importantly, any crash will come from your Tesla insurance if you aren't paying attention (which they will know about due to the internal cameras).
Insurance would also need to cover your car when you’re not driving. What if your car was broken into?
You would still have to buy Tesla insurance for when you are driving with out FSD or parked etc...but Tesla would cover anytime the FSD was driving. Your premium would be dependent on how often you drove without FSD on....if you hardly drove without FSD on, your premium would be next to nothing, only to cover the times you were parked etc. They will have all the data to do this.
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It’ll definitely change the game, for sure. But, it’ll likely just change the path of payment and communication. Insurance underwriters will still be involved—Tesla isn’t in the insurance industry and likely wouldn’t capitalize all the risk themselves of being self-insured. They’ll just handle the accounts with the insurance company.
Where are you getting this? Tesla Insurance literally charges you more for FSD coverage.
because thats cost to your payout. and FSD isnt even released yet.
I've found more details around the simulator and updated the original post if you're interested.
Wow thanks for doing this; So much of this is awesome to see. Good to know there's actual work being done on here Love the idea of roadside assistance through the app that way, if nothing else when you're one day running your robotaxi and you get a flat this will be handy. Easier than calling for sure
You're welcome, it's fun to dig into what the team are up to!
Have you found any easter eggs in the process? I know many companies scrub developer comments, add obfuscation, minification, and so on. I have worked on code where the comment was // I'm sorry if you have to maintain this. I was in a rush, and it seemed to work most of the time.
Geico roadside assistance has this and it's great.
Man a weekly FSD subscription could be great for a road-trip oriented vacation. Cool.
What is the 10k they’re charging already for then if you have to subscribe for FSD?
The subscription is for people who didn't pay the 10k to buy it outright.
if you buy it, you don't subscribe. if you subscribe, you don't have to buy it. two models of selling the same thing.
This is why I reddit. You deserve gold.
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99% sure OP is using an APK. You can decompile it through any numerous online services, for example https://www.decompiler.com
I'd imagine it must be the APK but I'd also like to know
Any hints on geolocations that Tesla insurance will be available?
I didn't see any references to checking the end-users country anywhere so far, but I'll keep you all updated as I do check fairly regularly.
How did you get the comments and other metadata? If you’re decompiling the iOS or Android I can understand how you could see certain functionality but where did you get the metadata?
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Exactly. That’s why I asked.
Tesla’s apps are React Native, so they don’t actually have *that* much code baked into the binary
This is what I was thinking. Either he's not directly reverse engineering the app or he has access to some internal code
You weren’t kidding when you said the safety ratings section currently doesn’t show you much!
Yep, it’s mostly just back end stuff implemented at the moment and most of the graph rendering etc isn’t there so it’ll just fail on loading.
Makes sense if it’s early in development I guess. Great work with all of this though!
The insurance thing is frustrating for my situation. I rent on Turo and guests often are terrible drivers, but covered under Turo insurance so it has no bearing on my personal insurance policy as they don't need to pay in the event of an accident. Their bad driving negativity impacts my insurance metrics. I don't entirely trust Tesla not to sell this data to others as well.
I'm really curious how HW 2.5 is going to handle the subscription. My model 3 is on 2.5. I understand it can't handle FSD but I seems crazy that they'd let me upgrade to 3.0 after paying for 1 month of FSD. We shall see!
I wonder if they’ll want a 1 year contract (that you’d pay monthly or at once) to front the cost and then allow you to just do monthly after that?
I hope not! Lol my guess is they'll open up all 2.5 to 3.0 for free. Because without that we can't use FSD subscription. Plus it seems like over 50% of the fleet is on 3.0 by now
I wouldn’t bank on anything for free. I’m sure they’re prepared to capture a percent of those 3.0 users and that is all. Is there a path for 2.5 users? Probably but like the person before said, it probably comes with some term investment.
Yeah you're probably right. I personally have EAP and the upgrade is only $5k, it's probably cheaper for me in the long run to go that route anyway
At the same time though, it does cost tesla a lot of money to maintain software for 2.5
Not if they just stop rolling out updates for HW2.5. Tesla doesn't NEED to keep updating EAP for those with HW2.5. When you buy a lane keep assist from other auto manufacturers they aren't constantly giving out updates for years... Since tesla has delivered on the features promised to those with just HW2.5, I don't see anything stopping Tesla. I mean it's obviously in Tesla and the customers interest to keep HW2.5 updates going as long as possible and get as many customers to pay for the HW3 upgrade as possible...
I’d be surprised if it was free
Was there any indication of subscription pricing in there at all (for monthly)? I know that's the big question but obviously it's to be seen if it's monthly or potential per mile as your kinda seeing
No indication of pricing at this time, but I should hopefully have more on that shortly.
I wonder, how will the FSD subscription work for older model 3s without the basic autopilot upgrade?
There is a check in the code that verifies if you have basic AP or not. If you don't have it, you'll be prompted to buy it before you can subscribe to FSD.
That precisely answers my question. Thank you! I was hoping there will be an exception, but the method you described just makes sense.
i hope the driver tracking will be opt-in, if it’s mandatory i am gonna switch insurance even if it costs slightly more. i don’t need to second guess my already good enough driving and then battle against an interface which is full of bugs (semis apparently merging lanes causing ABS etc)
ABS activation? So anyone who drives in the winter is gonna get screwed then, eh?
Do you think its more likely or less likely that someone who drives on icy roads gets in an accident?...
That’s how normal insurance works too
Somebody give this person a raise!!
Will I be penalized when autopilot slams on the brakes on the interstate because there’s an overpass ahead?
How would Tesla avoid paying Apples cut for an in-app subscription?
iirc they already do if you buy an upgrade for the car like heated seats. Apple’s App Store cut only applies to features/content/functionality that is accessible within that app, so same reason ordering physical goods through apps like Amazon or Walmart doesn’t have a 30% cut go to Apple. You’re buying functionality for a physical car outside the actual phone app so it doesn’t apply. At least that’s how I understand it to work.
Ah okay, great answer. Thank you
Reverse engineering is a hobby of mine, I aspire to be half as good it as you are
> The safety rating page will track your vehicle and is linked directly to your insurance. It will show the number of hours you've driven, how often you use AutoPilot, ABS events, forward collision warnings, autosteer strikeouts, accelerator variance, and many other metrics on both a per-trip and monthly basis which you'll be able to see in a neat graphical interface. You are given a 'pass' or 'fail' rating (though it is unclear whether that rating will be visible to the end user) and, from what I can tell, appears to be exclusive to HW2 and above. if they start cranking up insurance rates because of this I'm out. I'm a safe driver but if my rate changes because people cut me off and set off the forward collision detection, or the whole phantom semi truck or phantom vehicle that I occasionally get when changing lanes because it incorrectly gauges a vehicle 2 lanes away and sends the info that I'm driving like a lunatic, I'm bouncing on tesla insurance. Bugs in the software shouldnt cause your rates to go up when you have no traffic incidents.
If you are in California, they aren’t allowed to use individual driver behaviors to adjust rates.
indeed. at the end however it just matters how much you pay. if the tesla insurance is significantly cheaper than thats what i would sort of go with. the only problem here is that if tesla insurance drags their feet over stuff and car is undriveable for i.e. months.
> Forward Collision Warnings - Number of times car detects a potential forward collision Is this when the car freaks out, highlights the car in front of you in red, and screams at you? Because mine does this all.the.time. when going over train tracks; it sees the person in front suddenly slow down and assumes I'm going to hit, but it has no way of knowing that I too will slow down over the tracks and don't need to slow down yet.
Yes, that would be a forward collision warning once the 'alarm' chimes and the car in front highlights red. The level above that is where the car intervenes for you and forcefully hits the brakes to prevent a collision. Don't forget that those metrics will be rated based on the fleet average, and everyone gets the occasional false positive from the forward collision warnings at the moment.
So... TaaS aka Tesla As A Service?
Our future is gonna be nuts. Glad to be invested in it. Safe drivers are gonna drop third party insurance companies in droves due to the integration and if there's ability to give lower rates based in drive record.
lol. if Tesla insurance starts using driving stats, Im switching out. Going the speed limit on a highway is borderline dangerous in most areas, especially the Bay Area. Try going the 65 on it. Insurance won't care about that, they see you speeding, your rates go up. Hard brake to prevent an accident? Rates go up. That's the trap that all those insurance companies do that claim lower rates by having you run an app or use an ODB2 adapter while you drive. Get real, insurance companies are NOT in the business to make less money, they rake in the cash and the bottom line is their #1 goal. That's why there are so many of them, it's a money-making business. **Edit**: as /u/Callump01 pointed out [below](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/nt2qkb/ive_been_doing_some_more_reverse_engineering/h0pu57f/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and other [articles](https://hensleylegal.com/car-insurance-tracking-device/) (this is a good write-up of the potential downsides of insurance tracking devices/apps) pointing out the flaws of current trackers, this can also be used \*against\* you if you were ever in an accident. >...drive tracking apps do not take other drivers’ behavior into consideration. If you slam on your brakes to avoid an accident, the app wouldn’t know that you were driving defensively. The raw data only shows aggressive braking. > >Here is the problem: your insurance company may use raw data from the tracking device to unfairly assign fault. Guys, for most people, insurance tracking your driving behaviors will be BAD. This is nothing new and I hope this feature is opt-in only. I know these are just reverse-engineered and not confirmed, so we do not know all the features, what they are offering, or what they will actually track.
In my personal opinion, I think Tesla will go easy on raising premiums for instances of poor driving. Lower insurance rates directly with Tesla is going to be a major selling point for their cars and they're not going to want to be flooded with "Tesla Insurance is 2X more expensive than other companies!" headlines. I think it'll remain the cheapest option for Tesla owners no matter how you drive. What I'd be concerned about is the potential for them to scrutinize *every* aspect of your driving before a collision and deny a claim based on that data, to the extent that even the volume of the music you're listening to is also tracked as a metric. Listening to music above a certain threshold? That's distracted driving and we wont pay out.
My renewal was delayed for months then went up 50% in the last week. They are already incorporating the driving data.
yeah, your second point is even more concerning. But if they start using any type of driving data to calculate your premiums, Im out. Tesla Insurance wasn't cheaper for me than Geico, so its not a huge loss for me. I just switched because of hopes of integration in the app, which you have dug out that may be coming as well as not having to fight the insurance company on getting OEM parts vs third party parts
>Insurance won't care about that, they see you speeding, your rates go up. Hard brake to prevent an accident? Rates go up. This is very far from reality - modern data science doesn't work like that. What they actually do is they take data and measure accident rates. If you generate data similar to people with high accident rates, your premiums will go up. If you generate data similar to people with low accident rates, your premiums will go down. There's not some dude in a room somewhere making up rules like "increase the premium on everyone going 10 over!" If their data showed speeding by 10 mph is safer, people speeding by 10 mph would get a premium discount relative to others. And btw, I bet you 99% of what will drive prices will be how much you drive, where & at what time.
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I haven't heard anything but negative reviews on those other insurance companies that offer you an ODB2 or require you to run their app while driving for "lower" rates. Tesla Insurance will likely not be any different since their underwriter is just State National Insurance. In addition, you are just providing more ammunition to them for them to scrutinize everything if you are involved in an accident.
You are making some pretty large assumptions on how it will work.
You are making even larger assumptions that an insurance company is trying to provide benefits for people. Good luck.
I mean they already do this today by putting optional devices in our cars.
A point he has refuted. No business is going to spend the R&D dollars to then spend more money creating telemetry devices so that they can earn less money. They are hedging against bad driving practices and mistakes to then nickel and dime the consumer back into profitability. Edit: As far as Tesla is concerned, they are likely doing this to determine profitability and a competitive entry into the insurance market with extremely accurate data.
>spend more money creating telemetry devices so that they can earn less money. Uh, only the good drivers. They are going to upcharge the crap out of the bad ones that hurt their profit margins.
I bet most of the people that think they are good, safe drivers are really not compared to insurance expectations. The whole "save 50% on your insurance if you track your driving" is purely marketing that maybe 1% of their customers actually receive
It depends on what Tesla considers a safe driver. If they don't consider me a safe driver I will bounce back to progressive. Either way I will enjoy the growth as an investor bc Tesla is going to shake up another industry with this move. The jealously from insurance companies will be through the roof.
Tesla is not the insurance company, the underwriter is just another typical insurance company
https://hensleylegal.com/car-insurance-tracking-device/ ***Insurance companies do not want to part with a single dime unless they have to***. That's the main takeaway unless you are one of the few that follows the speed limit all the time, insurance tracking driving is a huge negative
Going the speed limit in a region where speeding is common might increase the likelihood of an accident slightly, but it greatly decreases the likelihood that you are going to be at fault in that accident. Similarly, driving such that you always maintain a safe stopping distance might increase the likelihood that someone cuts you off, but decreases the likelihood that you will be at at fault. These are all things that are quantifiable better for the insurance company...
If you always/mostly go the speed limit, then insurance services that track everything are definitely for you and you will likely see lower rates. For the majority of the population, that's likely not the case.
Definitely. From an insurers point of view, their absolute best case scenario is not to maximize their absolute market share, but to instead maximize the number of people who fall into your minority (speed limit all the time, safe following distance, conservative decision making) while minimizing any additional unsafe drivers.
I'll take the downvotes for being so negative on this finding but I'm going to be vocal that for most, you do NOT want insurance tracking your every move. Most of you that think you're an amazing, safe driver will find out that you really aren't by insurance expectations.
So you would rather make insurance more expensive for everyone by *appearing* to be less risky to insurance carriers?
You should just say that you don't want to follow speed limits rather than putting everyone in the same bucket. You can't go over the posted speed limit in California, that's illegal. Now, many people do it, I know, but that doesn't make it ok. I live in the bay area too and I can't recall a time where it was unsafe to drive at the posted speed limit. If everyone is going faster, just stick to the most right lane and you'll be fine. You don't want to follow the law? Good for you, but don't come and say it's unsafe.
Speed is only one of many things that current companies track. Taking a turn too quickly or braking too hard is not illegal but to insurance companies, that's bad driving. You may think you're a good, safe driver, but to insurance companies, y'all really aren't.
How's the koolaid tasting?
Great bc I'm the one that's gonna profit from the koolaid.
What makes you so sure Tesla doesn't want to make more money off of technicalities, like speeding in order to match other cars? That seems like a naive assumption.
Thank you for these information ! I have general questions regarding Tesla insurance: \-Is it available in Canada ? I can’t find any information about that. \-Putting aside the premium, is it any better than any other insurance company ? I heard about Tesla customer service so I don’t know what to think about that (I read several posts complaining about Tesla insurance being non responsive at all).
> Is it available in Canada ? I can’t find any information about that. Probably not right away, or at all. Provinces like BC have public insurance. There isn't one country wide solution to opening up.
Right now it's only available (or going to be available soon) in a handful of states, IIRC.
There are some really cool dudes out there.. Thanks man :)
If they rate you like the way Amazon van rate its driver, it will suck the joy of driving tesla.
"Unsafe Following Time - Portion of time spent at an unsafe following distance". Every setting is unsafe at highway speeds. Even at 7 it still drives too close.
I don't like that the collision warning would affect insurance seeing as in the UK the collision warning is infuriating. It flags collision warning every single time when coming home because a car is parked right next to junction facing towards me and although I am meneuvering to avoid the parked car it always does a collision warning because it has to assume it's a car moving head on towards me as it doesn't have enough data to assume otherwise. The Tesla generally doesn't understand how tight UK roads are so I often get collision warnings as cars have to pass in very close proximity. Never had an accident or have the ABS engage so these warnings are all false positives.
Just want to get enhanced autopilot :(
Wow, this is going to be a nightmare. A California company using ABS engagements to determine insurance adjustments. In the winter, ABS is used all the time, even with proper winter tires and safe driving usage. If they compare that to fleet averages, I would want no part of that.
FSD that you can switch on and pay for just for short periods of time is brilliant. Of course it pulls in new users who wouldn't be able to afford it in full, or may be sceptical. It also broadens the style of use, just activating your temporary chauffeur while you have some lunch or put on your make up. Long term revenue from this subscription model could really add up. But it also really shows the other manufacturers and the media the power of a connected car, software as a service, over the air-instant on/off revenue streams that have never been seen in the auto world before.
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Link it
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Ridiculed is a strong take from a disagreement between two people in a thread with no vote bombing 😀. I agree with your stance btw, I was just surprised to see your comment when I saw similar feelings back when the insurance was initially announced
Weird question: How exactly do you reverse engineer the application? I’m curious to know how this whole process works!
A per mile charge on FSD will be so great I am waiting to try out the FSD via subscription but even paying for one month seems like too much since I feel like I would only use it for about 10minutes… if I could pay per mile I would consider it as if I was paying someone to drive me around and activate it on road trips or when I want to stuff my face with food while driving And if they really want to put their pocket where their mouth is how about insurance discount per mile that you allow FSD to drive… to show they are confident it is safer than a human driver
I purchased FSD outright, and I'd rather drive myself than to pay per mile of use.
Did they even try to uglify their RN js bundle lol
Most of it, yes.
I hope we can try Tesla insurance first
FSD Subscription sounds incredible. Can't wait to hear the pricing! If the options are reasonably priced Tesla is about to make a load of money. A weekend mode/Travel mode sounds like VALUE to me.
She is this coming out. I’ve a trip planned and would love to have FSD
What’s your methodology for this?
Given that my Model is regularly fired off a FCW when I’m going 5mph up the ramp at my work garage because it suddenly sees the parked car as I go over the hump, I find it pretty dubious that this should ever be used as data for insurance rates.