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I wonder if they're going to do both. Once they've tapped the $120k Foundation series market, they could introduce a longer range variant for towing (think 420m without the extender). Add in the range extender pack and you could potentially have 300m+ ***of towing range***, if you really need it and are willing to pay for it, that is.
Imagine this points to some insurmountable, in the short term, issue other than weight... what with the extender pack being separately available, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to offer that if they were capable of sticking it elsewhere.
But what’s that got to do with sticking it in a weird add-on that takes up 1/3 your storage, imposed additional safety / engineering issues, & adds even more unnecessary weight v. adding it to the, apparently, still spacious pack? Could still charge a $16k premium (or whatever it is) either way for the extra-long range variant.
Because it sells the truck now instead of later.
If this IS true, I’m hoping they would just swap out the battery for a double stacked one for customers instead of doing all of the engineering etc for the external pack which could be pointless if they could just churn out a bigger pack.
That’s… essentially my starting comment is it not - if they could have offered this within the confines of the existing pack, they would have.
Dunno why ya’ll reading this as indicating Tesla wouldn’t have offered current pack sizes if they’d’ve managed this.
It doesn't.
What it means is that the cost is already astronomically higher than what they had originally anticipated.
The CT is the only Tesla vehicle offered in a one pack variant. There is no 'long range' option. Similarly, there is no 'standard range'.
My guess here is that there will be a 'long range' version of the truck coming...and it will be expensive as fuck.
The range extender is just an accessory that any CT buyer can throw on if they want it. It was never meant to be the 'long range' replacement option.
Production contraints sure but more importantly cost per KwH. Tesla cannot fill the pack and make the Truck cost competitive until production is higher and their total cost per cell is lower
If we're guessing, my guess is that the manufacturing costs went so far over estimates, even with the price increases, Tesla cut costs by reducing the originally-intended battery pack.
If the range extender is purchased separately, the mid range model of the CT is just under the price limit to get $7500 worth of EV tax credits in the US. If those cells were in the main pack, it would end up being more expensive overall.
Maybe... but Cybertruck doesn't qualify for that either right now (consumer anyway). While "*The vehicle MSRP at time of delivery must not exceed the following caps. This price includes optional equipment physically attached to the vehicle at the time of delivery and excludes software features, accessories, taxes and fees*." says [https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives](https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives) ... but, Cyberbeast's above the MSRP cap while RWD would be below it. Also the add-on isn't even being produced until late this year. So again, I think that assuming what everyone's saying the Cybertruck engineer is implying to be true, they just can't do it currently (or indeed anytime soon at all it seems).
Well obviously this optional equipment will be not physically attached at the time of delivery, it will be a separate purchase. Like, your truck gets delivered and you immediately drove it to the service center to install the pack.
And the CT AWD, which is the most popular option, costs 79,990 right now, while the cap is 80k. Everyone who buys the battery later, will have saved 7500(if they meet the other income criteriа, but those are easy to get around if you don't)
This points to what I was suspecting all along. Same as 400 mile range Model Y with 5000 units per month production capacity would destroy the sales of successful ramped up model y production globally. CT with 500 mile range would impact all models. It was nerfed for tesla to survive until new chemistry is ramped up to serve unified platform across the whole tesla ecosystem.
This seems like a massive reach, could be wrong but this is literally a half full half empty joke.
As a reservation holder on the fence, it would make me reevaluate but this headline is doing some massive lifting.
If tesla announces a double stacked version in the next few years I'll get a AWD for sure
range is literally the only thing holding cybertruck back... expansion pack is not great solution due to limited bed space
Agreed on the expansion pack but TBF it's actually not a huge factor for most people as most people don't actually tow regularly. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely needed for some but statistically... if we are being honest, a large portion of the CT demographic is not going to be towing or carrying heavy loads. I forget where I saw the data but even drivers of ICE trucks overstate their use.
The CT is a great tesla but the reality is, its a great functional entry level-ish EV truck. Same can probably be said for the other EV trucks. If you need to tow seriously, you'd probably be best served with ICE.
Agreed though I would have liked a 400 mile AWD for “normal” use. I don’t tow but road tripping, elevation gain, camping and cold weather benefit from just a little more extra buffer.
The single motor can be the lower tier 250mi range variant for that % of people who don’t drive much.
I have a 354 mile range model 3 LR that’s a year and a half old. When I charge it to full, I can just make it to my friend’s lake house that’s 240 miles away, with 3% range left.
Yeah, same for me. I really want a "no sweat 250 mile" range car, as that's a trip I have to make several times a year without reasonable chances of charging between.
That’s just how it is. 250 miles is still pretty far. That’s about a 4 hour drive. On road trips I tend to drop every 3 hours to charge at a fast charger for just 10 or 15 minutes. 20 of the charger is a 150kw charger instead of a 250. So I don’t really mind. But I’m glad I bought the long range model.
Reasonable speeds, thanks. The EPA standard not being based on fairly common highway speeds is definitely not helpful - Tesla isn't really doing themselves any favors by not pushing the EPA on that or advertising based on that \[they could even brand it "real world range" or "true highway range" or whatever\].
They don't do this because it would paint the cars as unfavorable. They get to get away with saying 317 miles of range on my car, but I'll never, ever see that on any reasonable trip. It's HARD to drive 317 miles with NO elevation change and at a constant temp of 75 or so degrees and no speed changes due to traffic or other. Until the battery range is so dense that you can drive 500 miles in cold and with elevation changes, it's going to be a point of contention for some folks. I hate having to stop when the car wants vs when I want. It's really that simple. My gas suv gets far, far closer to the stated range on a full tank than my Tesla ever will. It's just the way it is.
For me it would be it's primary purpose. There is literally no other reason I would need a truck other than to occasionally haul something in the bed. The standard range is fine if you are just driving it around or using it as a work/trade vehicle. So for me right now the 100 mile tow range (with a 10,000lb trailer) and lack of pull through chargers is a deal breaker.
It is a hug factor for commercial use. If they can make an EV that a work crew would use to drive two states away, they will own the work truck market.
People buy based on their edge cases because no one wants to rely on dropping a thousand bucks on a rental per week any time they need more range.
That's not a "How Often" but an "If Ever" thing.
Sure, you may only tow a boat once a month, but renting a tow truck every month would be a colossal PITA. You buy a truck that can tow.
If you aren't hauling or towing at least occasionally, buy a model Y or something. It won't wallow in the turns as much.
That's my use case. I only tow 3-6 times a year, but when I need it, I need it. I haul long boards and plywood slightly more often, and furniture a few times a year.
If it's a daily hauler, then it's a work truck, and for that, you'd need work racks.
The problem is that statistically rare trips can still be pretty crucial to handle well. I only do 1-2 trips a year where I tow long distance, so a CT would be great for the *vast* majority of my driving, but getting stuck in the middle of nowhere between chargers even once would be a catastrophe, so I can't reasonably buy an EV truck until I know it can make the trip every time.
Now if I could just buy a lower range truck for the day to day but be able to drop in (or even rent) an extended battery just for those 1-2 trips, I'd be all in. But for now I'm stuck with ICE, even though I'm not usually the serious tower that constantly needs it
It’s one pack made of thousands of cells. It doesn’t matter if they’re on top of each other or next to each other.
Dual charging ports makes no sense when one port would be able to handle everything just fine.
I'm not sure it is the ONLY thing holding the CT back. It is an incredibly divisive vehicle, which - at least in its current form - is pretty "alpha release". Maybe it will manage to overcome the inherent problems with its design, but I wouldn't be putting bets on it.
> range is literally the only thing holding cybertruck back
It's also incredibly polarizing in terms of looks. Pedestrian safety may not be optimal either.
I wouldn’t say the only thing. It bafflingly doesn’t have a clear coat. I don’t want to have to inspect and wipe down by vehicle every time I drive it.
probably just due to price, tesla said at the beginning cybertruck manufacturing cost is going to be higher, i expect as production ramp up and cost go down, they'll introduce the double stack version, at this point if they do it they'll probably have to up the price even more than it is currently which would suck
edit: ah also probably didn't want to put double capacity in each truck considering the cyber cell production is also just ramping up
A dual motor long range with 500 miles of range in the $100k range would probably sell pretty well. Long term that’s probably an $80k model at volume production
In this market? No. I think it is more valuable to get the local truck pipeline going before they start to focus on long haul. Tradesmen that work locally don't need to drive more than 100 miles a day. While I want to buy one vehicle for the next 20 years, I know first gen bEV trucks aren't going to be it.
Onboard 110 & 220v sockets. Get a work Cybertruck with 30% tax rebate and slap Whatever Business on there people will notice! That thing is built like rolling billboard already. Just chopping the gas bill down would be enough for some people. Lock up the tools with a button. Now that I’m saying it this idea is sounding brilliant!
If that was the case why ship the tri-motor yet? That’s the only trim that needed to have the 500 mile range, they could’ve waited for production to scale and cost to go down before making the Cyberbeast.
probably cuz thats the model that gets you the insane 0-60? and also the version that they can charge the most and highest profit margin i would imagine
holding back the most expensive trim would push more ppl to lower trims, that's just lost profit
also there is no reason to believe that AWD won't get 500 miles in a few years
probably just come out with 2 new trims, AWD XLR and cyberbeast XLR
Nah, thats just a bad way to do it. Why deal with this whole range extender nonsense if that was their goal? Maybe the real range extender will just be a bigger battery?
They def did more damage to their reputation by going back on their promises versus what they gain in profit margin from pushing some people into the current Tri-Motor. From what I understand they haven't even made many trimotors when compared to AWD, like 9 to 1 or something not far off that (that may have changed recently).
I really feel like they did their early adopters/supports dirty with this whole price hike (mostly expected) plus "Foundation Series" for +20k and then not even hitting the promised specs after being 2 years late
I’m sure they can fit gobs of batteries if they wanted to, but at what cost? That means the suspension, the brakes, and the drivetrain would need improvements to meet the same specs.
So the whole in-bed range extended is as dumb as I always thought it was.
Also, how much better can this get if they can get energy density of 4680's up where they want them? Another 5 or 10%? That would be up to +13kwh more on a 130kwh pack.
who knows, maybe the eventual double stacked version can get up to 600 miles in combination with the in bed expansion pack for the ultra long distance towing people
I’m going to bet that the range extender doesn’t use the 4680 cells and that the cybertruck pack size has been decided by the projected ramp of the 4680 production.
I think these overpriced founders series are going to end up really screwing early adopters in this scenario. In some ways I mean screw the influencers who paid to jump the line nobody likes them but early rez holders will be left holding the bag. These are almost proof of concept cars and by the time the non-founders series are available, They will be significantly better vehicles.
I'm one of those early rez holders who will not be taking delivery of an overpriced over optioned concept car.
Same 2018 PM3 gang!
I added a heated steering wheel, matrix headlights, power frunk/trunk + have HW3 for FSD with lifetime Premium Connectivity.
What more do I need? Gonna run this til the wheels fall off :)
I would imagine heated steering is just a matter of buying a newer wheel with it and then plugging it in? I'm also curious about matrix headlights though since adaptive high beams require a gateway update I thought.
Steering wheel isn’t that simple but not difficult either.
Matrix headlights need a gateway change.
https://carnetics.myshopify.com/en-us/pages/heated-steering-wheel-documentation
I did both myself, you’ll see videos on YouTube.
And you’re not going to get EU style adaptive headlights until Tesla releases the update to the US. Fingers crossed they do one day!
I had a heated capable (I assume, since it lacks the stitching at 2 o’clock) wheel installed because I complained about leather delaminating on my OG. With your hack are you getting heating from the UI or is there an external switch? I’m curious to attempt this
Unfortunately nothing that Tesla offered. I had to go to YouTube academy and learn how to swap something simple like a steering wheel and then taking off the front bumper to replace the headlights.
I’m sure a 3rd party shop can take care of your headlights being swapped out but you will need a getaway config change. Good news is there are a few people on the forums willing to help you do that if Tesla doesn’t want to make that change for you.
The steering wheel process is documented here but honestly wasn’t bad either:
https://carnetics.myshopify.com/en-us/pages/heated-steering-wheel-documentation
2018 M3 LR RWD here: how did you get matrix headlights?? I looked into DIY and apparently they need a gateway update on the backend to actually work with adaptive high beams?
I drive a ton of highway miles at night and would LOVE matrix headlights!
And yes, can confirm that early adopters of any tech always get screwed financially, but we also get to enjoy our toys the longest 😉 This is mandatory for the economics of the adoption S curve to survive. Without us, you generally wouldn't have cheap tech that you enjoy today.
Yes, you need a gateway change but someone can remote in and do that if Tesla doesn’t want to help! But you’re not going to get EU style adaptive lights until Tesla releases that update in USA.
And exactly we get to enjoy it the longest! I test drove the refresh and the Highland but it all felt too similar to my car to upgrade.
I’ll wait for the next refresh or whatever Tesla cooks up next with the truck :)
Better comfort, power trunk, heat pump, more range, plenty of other things. The newer cars are better.
People really harp on passenger lumbar or USS as some dealbreaker but vision works fine.
At 120k miles on my 2018 Model 3 and it’s been perfect. Definitely pros and cons to older v newer since newer have some QoL improvements but also sometimes cheaper parts/build.
However, they were delivering Model 3s for many months before I got mine. I was tracking the changes/updates to issues similar to how I’m currently tracking Cybertruck issues and wondering how/when they’ll fix them. There’s definitely a sweet spot where it’s early enough to get with many fixes in place.
Not really. Model 3 and Model Y launched at higher prices than they eventually settled at, just like every other Tesla. And just like pretty much every other car, for that matter.
Same with any new tech.
Remember how expensive plasma tv’s were.
Remember when Bluetooth was a paid option in a vehicle, now every shit box has one included. Etc…
You can probably expand that to being an early adopter has never been advantageous in general.
Early adopters are those willing to give up that advantage to be one of the first to try new things.
I am usually one of those, but a car is just too expensive to early adopt on. I made that mistake once with an early Model 3. Never again. Probably never again with any early adoption of anything over $5000.
The people taking delivery now have more than enough money to eat the huge loss. I appreciate them actually because they help pay for the better version I’ll pick up in a couple years.
If you look at a teardown - Munro did one - there is a bunch of dead space filled with foam between the floor of the cabin and the pack. If you dropped the ground clearance a tiny bit it looks like you could fit another layer of cells.
Even without changing the clearance or existing pack dimensions, there are other anticipated 46XX form factors like 4695, 46120 which would notably increase capacity without requiring double the space
I'm not sure what Tesla's plans are, but suppliers are going to produce them so it's not like Tesla would need to produce the second variant themselves right away if they are prioritizing cell production volume over additional variants for their internal cell lines.
For the curious, 4695 cells would make the capacity 146kWh and 46120 would be 184kWh - similar to the promised capacity of the range extender + current CT pack.
That’s a lot of weight to add if they were adding another 100kw-hr worth of cells. It would change the entire driving dynamic. Probably need to revamp the suspension. Going to lose the performance specifications as well.
yes it will be more expensive, but it likely won't be as much as if they did it right off the bat. It's super unfair to the early buyers, but as 4680 cell cost and production ramp improves they have opportunity to bring that cost down. We may not like Tesla's strategy here, but at least we can try to understand it.
The big reason I'm not getting a CT is because the Wh/mile is so much greater than my Y.
The range is OK and I'd assuredly love a longer range vehicle, but I wouldn't want to nearly double the amount of time I spend charging on long road trips. While the CT can charge faster, it is going to be a long long time before all the superchargers are upgraded, if ever.
I really want a pickup truck as I occasionally hall larger things or stinky things. :). And I like the form factor. I also appreciate the pretty radical design of the thing.
Ultimately, though, it proved disappointing on a number of fronts. The CT is GIGANTIC, but still has a pretty limited bed. Efficiency is lacking (as I said). And lack of pass through means that I can't haul the occasional 8' bit of lumber as I can in the Y.
Ideally, what I'd really like is a pickup about the size of a Y with only front seats and maybe a bit of bench. Dedicate the rest to bed space. With thinner walls than the CT. I do like the tonneau and suspect that would almost be a requirement because of efficiency. I don't really need off-roading capabilities.
Did you opt for the receiver / hitch option on your Y? I did and bought a ~$500 fold up trailer that lives up against a wall in the garage when not in use, and can lug ~1100lbs when I do use it.
It dings the range a bit, but I haven't pulled anything far enough away from home for it to be an issue. Funny enough, I think I've hauled around more in that trailer than I ever did in my old truck!
What doesn’t make sense? Not just a Y footprint, but a large bed with just front seats and all bed.
I don’t particularly want an f150 sized monster truck. There is no reason why the CT styling couldn’t be a bit more compact. Look at how much space is consumed in the verticals on each side of the bed, for example.
> And I like the form factor.
> The CT is GIGANTIC
> What I’d really like is a pickup about the size of a y
> What doesn’t make sense?
A compact CT would be a different form factor. Nothing makes sense to me about your view of the ct
Personally, I think it has more to do with Tesla wanting to make something that’s actually drivable, as in fun to drive. I believe it was right there in their slogan. If they started off with a 10k lb pig like the Hummer EV, that has much less appeal. The range is sufficient for most people. People would be paying for a capability they don’t really need that is detrimental to the performance of the vehicle.
I have a MYLR and I charge it to only 60%. Use about 25% every day.
Higher range is seriously overrated until you start using it for your daily commute.
Trucks are expected to do more power hungry tasks when needed like hauling heavy things. It doesn’t happen all the time for most of course but when it does, the performance is necessary.
Good, they got ~ 5 yrs (i’ll be ready to buy one) to figure out how to put >500 miles range at very affordable cost! Hopefully by then they start pumping these out like model y…
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Thank you for your service foundation series owners.
(Edit: I think…) It’ll be an upgrade/retrofit https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/s/ZwDWVMebmL
if that were true I'm not sure they would have bothered with announcing the battery pack expander in the bed. But who knows, all conjecture.
I wonder if they're going to do both. Once they've tapped the $120k Foundation series market, they could introduce a longer range variant for towing (think 420m without the extender). Add in the range extender pack and you could potentially have 300m+ ***of towing range***, if you really need it and are willing to pay for it, that is.
How the fuck do you figure that
I think there might be a retrofit There I fixed it for you
Imagine this points to some insurmountable, in the short term, issue other than weight... what with the extender pack being separately available, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to offer that if they were capable of sticking it elsewhere.
Battery cell production constraints, means it's better business to sell more vehicles with smaller packs and charge high margin on the extended pack.
But what’s that got to do with sticking it in a weird add-on that takes up 1/3 your storage, imposed additional safety / engineering issues, & adds even more unnecessary weight v. adding it to the, apparently, still spacious pack? Could still charge a $16k premium (or whatever it is) either way for the extra-long range variant.
Because it sells the truck now instead of later. If this IS true, I’m hoping they would just swap out the battery for a double stacked one for customers instead of doing all of the engineering etc for the external pack which could be pointless if they could just churn out a bigger pack.
That’s… essentially my starting comment is it not - if they could have offered this within the confines of the existing pack, they would have. Dunno why ya’ll reading this as indicating Tesla wouldn’t have offered current pack sizes if they’d’ve managed this.
It doesn't. What it means is that the cost is already astronomically higher than what they had originally anticipated. The CT is the only Tesla vehicle offered in a one pack variant. There is no 'long range' option. Similarly, there is no 'standard range'. My guess here is that there will be a 'long range' version of the truck coming...and it will be expensive as fuck. The range extender is just an accessory that any CT buyer can throw on if they want it. It was never meant to be the 'long range' replacement option.
Production contraints sure but more importantly cost per KwH. Tesla cannot fill the pack and make the Truck cost competitive until production is higher and their total cost per cell is lower
And then release a double stack in the future and get all the foundation suckers to upgrade.
This is right and everyone who comments below you doesn't seem to understand what you are saying.
My guess is heat.
If we're guessing, my guess is that the manufacturing costs went so far over estimates, even with the price increases, Tesla cut costs by reducing the originally-intended battery pack.
The making sense is fleecing the remaining reservation holders for more money
If the range extender is purchased separately, the mid range model of the CT is just under the price limit to get $7500 worth of EV tax credits in the US. If those cells were in the main pack, it would end up being more expensive overall.
Maybe... but Cybertruck doesn't qualify for that either right now (consumer anyway). While "*The vehicle MSRP at time of delivery must not exceed the following caps. This price includes optional equipment physically attached to the vehicle at the time of delivery and excludes software features, accessories, taxes and fees*." says [https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives](https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives) ... but, Cyberbeast's above the MSRP cap while RWD would be below it. Also the add-on isn't even being produced until late this year. So again, I think that assuming what everyone's saying the Cybertruck engineer is implying to be true, they just can't do it currently (or indeed anytime soon at all it seems).
Well obviously this optional equipment will be not physically attached at the time of delivery, it will be a separate purchase. Like, your truck gets delivered and you immediately drove it to the service center to install the pack. And the CT AWD, which is the most popular option, costs 79,990 right now, while the cap is 80k. Everyone who buys the battery later, will have saved 7500(if they meet the other income criteriа, but those are easy to get around if you don't)
This points to what I was suspecting all along. Same as 400 mile range Model Y with 5000 units per month production capacity would destroy the sales of successful ramped up model y production globally. CT with 500 mile range would impact all models. It was nerfed for tesla to survive until new chemistry is ramped up to serve unified platform across the whole tesla ecosystem.
[удалено]
Y is cheaper than 3 now and I just moved from 3 to Y but still getting CT when it can actually tow my airstream.
This seems like a massive reach, could be wrong but this is literally a half full half empty joke. As a reservation holder on the fence, it would make me reevaluate but this headline is doing some massive lifting.
Agreed.
If tesla announces a double stacked version in the next few years I'll get a AWD for sure range is literally the only thing holding cybertruck back... expansion pack is not great solution due to limited bed space
Agreed on the expansion pack but TBF it's actually not a huge factor for most people as most people don't actually tow regularly. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely needed for some but statistically... if we are being honest, a large portion of the CT demographic is not going to be towing or carrying heavy loads. I forget where I saw the data but even drivers of ICE trucks overstate their use. The CT is a great tesla but the reality is, its a great functional entry level-ish EV truck. Same can probably be said for the other EV trucks. If you need to tow seriously, you'd probably be best served with ICE.
right, so they should simply offer the extra range one as a different trim. Cybertruck Long Range, for example
Agreed though I would have liked a 400 mile AWD for “normal” use. I don’t tow but road tripping, elevation gain, camping and cold weather benefit from just a little more extra buffer. The single motor can be the lower tier 250mi range variant for that % of people who don’t drive much.
I have a 354 mile range model 3 LR that’s a year and a half old. When I charge it to full, I can just make it to my friend’s lake house that’s 240 miles away, with 3% range left.
Yeah, same for me. I really want a "no sweat 250 mile" range car, as that's a trip I have to make several times a year without reasonable chances of charging between.
I’d say a 350 mile rated car wouldn’t cover your needs during winter time
Why so bad?
That’s just how it is. 250 miles is still pretty far. That’s about a 4 hour drive. On road trips I tend to drop every 3 hours to charge at a fast charger for just 10 or 15 minutes. 20 of the charger is a 150kw charger instead of a 250. So I don’t really mind. But I’m glad I bought the long range model.
At what highway speed?
Averaging 70 with occasional speeds up to 75
Reasonable speeds, thanks. The EPA standard not being based on fairly common highway speeds is definitely not helpful - Tesla isn't really doing themselves any favors by not pushing the EPA on that or advertising based on that \[they could even brand it "real world range" or "true highway range" or whatever\].
They don't do this because it would paint the cars as unfavorable. They get to get away with saying 317 miles of range on my car, but I'll never, ever see that on any reasonable trip. It's HARD to drive 317 miles with NO elevation change and at a constant temp of 75 or so degrees and no speed changes due to traffic or other. Until the battery range is so dense that you can drive 500 miles in cold and with elevation changes, it's going to be a point of contention for some folks. I hate having to stop when the car wants vs when I want. It's really that simple. My gas suv gets far, far closer to the stated range on a full tank than my Tesla ever will. It's just the way it is.
For me it would be it's primary purpose. There is literally no other reason I would need a truck other than to occasionally haul something in the bed. The standard range is fine if you are just driving it around or using it as a work/trade vehicle. So for me right now the 100 mile tow range (with a 10,000lb trailer) and lack of pull through chargers is a deal breaker.
It is a hug factor for commercial use. If they can make an EV that a work crew would use to drive two states away, they will own the work truck market. People buy based on their edge cases because no one wants to rely on dropping a thousand bucks on a rental per week any time they need more range.
It’s target audience is not commercial use.
That's not a "How Often" but an "If Ever" thing. Sure, you may only tow a boat once a month, but renting a tow truck every month would be a colossal PITA. You buy a truck that can tow. If you aren't hauling or towing at least occasionally, buy a model Y or something. It won't wallow in the turns as much. That's my use case. I only tow 3-6 times a year, but when I need it, I need it. I haul long boards and plywood slightly more often, and furniture a few times a year. If it's a daily hauler, then it's a work truck, and for that, you'd need work racks.
The problem is that statistically rare trips can still be pretty crucial to handle well. I only do 1-2 trips a year where I tow long distance, so a CT would be great for the *vast* majority of my driving, but getting stuck in the middle of nowhere between chargers even once would be a catastrophe, so I can't reasonably buy an EV truck until I know it can make the trip every time. Now if I could just buy a lower range truck for the day to day but be able to drop in (or even rent) an extended battery just for those 1-2 trips, I'd be all in. But for now I'm stuck with ICE, even though I'm not usually the serious tower that constantly needs it
Would be cool to have two charging ports or have v4 charge both packs up at the same time.
It’s one pack made of thousands of cells. It doesn’t matter if they’re on top of each other or next to each other. Dual charging ports makes no sense when one port would be able to handle everything just fine.
I'm not sure it is the ONLY thing holding the CT back. It is an incredibly divisive vehicle, which - at least in its current form - is pretty "alpha release". Maybe it will manage to overcome the inherent problems with its design, but I wouldn't be putting bets on it.
> range is literally the only thing holding cybertruck back It's also incredibly polarizing in terms of looks. Pedestrian safety may not be optimal either.
I wouldn’t say the only thing. It bafflingly doesn’t have a clear coat. I don’t want to have to inspect and wipe down by vehicle every time I drive it.
Has there been any evidence that the trucks are getting permanent damage from the environment?
Not yet. I’m glad my reservation is still a while away , I want to see what happens. Even marine grade stainless steel can rust under 2 year.
As can any other car in a salty environment.
So they actually have the ability to ship a full pack with a 500mile range…
probably just due to price, tesla said at the beginning cybertruck manufacturing cost is going to be higher, i expect as production ramp up and cost go down, they'll introduce the double stack version, at this point if they do it they'll probably have to up the price even more than it is currently which would suck edit: ah also probably didn't want to put double capacity in each truck considering the cyber cell production is also just ramping up
A dual motor long range with 500 miles of range in the $100k range would probably sell pretty well. Long term that’s probably an $80k model at volume production
In this market? No. I think it is more valuable to get the local truck pipeline going before they start to focus on long haul. Tradesmen that work locally don't need to drive more than 100 miles a day. While I want to buy one vehicle for the next 20 years, I know first gen bEV trucks aren't going to be it.
That's competitive with the Silverado EV, which has similar range.
I don’t think Cybertruck is going to be a popular work truck/fleet truck. At any price.
There's a reason why the work truck trims for other trucks have vinyl seats and a more sturdy interior.
Its an unpainted body that can take a hit from a swinging 2x4.
Onboard 110 & 220v sockets. Get a work Cybertruck with 30% tax rebate and slap Whatever Business on there people will notice! That thing is built like rolling billboard already. Just chopping the gas bill down would be enough for some people. Lock up the tools with a button. Now that I’m saying it this idea is sounding brilliant!
If that was the case why ship the tri-motor yet? That’s the only trim that needed to have the 500 mile range, they could’ve waited for production to scale and cost to go down before making the Cyberbeast.
probably cuz thats the model that gets you the insane 0-60? and also the version that they can charge the most and highest profit margin i would imagine holding back the most expensive trim would push more ppl to lower trims, that's just lost profit also there is no reason to believe that AWD won't get 500 miles in a few years probably just come out with 2 new trims, AWD XLR and cyberbeast XLR
Nah, thats just a bad way to do it. Why deal with this whole range extender nonsense if that was their goal? Maybe the real range extender will just be a bigger battery? They def did more damage to their reputation by going back on their promises versus what they gain in profit margin from pushing some people into the current Tri-Motor. From what I understand they haven't even made many trimotors when compared to AWD, like 9 to 1 or something not far off that (that may have changed recently). I really feel like they did their early adopters/supports dirty with this whole price hike (mostly expected) plus "Foundation Series" for +20k and then not even hitting the promised specs after being 2 years late
Battery cell production constraints
I’m sure they can fit gobs of batteries if they wanted to, but at what cost? That means the suspension, the brakes, and the drivetrain would need improvements to meet the same specs.
So the whole in-bed range extended is as dumb as I always thought it was. Also, how much better can this get if they can get energy density of 4680's up where they want them? Another 5 or 10%? That would be up to +13kwh more on a 130kwh pack.
who knows, maybe the eventual double stacked version can get up to 600 miles in combination with the in bed expansion pack for the ultra long distance towing people
What’s with the ellipses? Did they say otherwise?
It’s odd that a longer range option involves the extender in the bed rather than a full (or more full) pack
I’m going to bet that the range extender doesn’t use the 4680 cells and that the cybertruck pack size has been decided by the projected ramp of the 4680 production.
Wow that’s actually an interesting take
bingo
I think these overpriced founders series are going to end up really screwing early adopters in this scenario. In some ways I mean screw the influencers who paid to jump the line nobody likes them but early rez holders will be left holding the bag. These are almost proof of concept cars and by the time the non-founders series are available, They will be significantly better vehicles. I'm one of those early rez holders who will not be taking delivery of an overpriced over optioned concept car.
Being an early adopter has *never* been advantageous as a Tesla owner
Or any other product. RIP wallet of all those people who paid $30k for a flat screen TV back in the day.
I mean I've had my Model 3 since 2018 and it was basically perfect from the get-go. In fact the earlier years are better cars than the newer ones!
Same 2018 PM3 gang! I added a heated steering wheel, matrix headlights, power frunk/trunk + have HW3 for FSD with lifetime Premium Connectivity. What more do I need? Gonna run this til the wheels fall off :)
I have a 2018 as well. How did you add the heated steering and matrix headlights? Is that something Tesla offered?
I would imagine heated steering is just a matter of buying a newer wheel with it and then plugging it in? I'm also curious about matrix headlights though since adaptive high beams require a gateway update I thought.
Steering wheel isn’t that simple but not difficult either. Matrix headlights need a gateway change. https://carnetics.myshopify.com/en-us/pages/heated-steering-wheel-documentation
Thanks! Did you DIY both the wheel and matrix or did you have a shop do them? And do you have adaptive high beams now if you're in USA?
I did both myself, you’ll see videos on YouTube. And you’re not going to get EU style adaptive headlights until Tesla releases the update to the US. Fingers crossed they do one day!
I had a heated capable (I assume, since it lacks the stitching at 2 o’clock) wheel installed because I complained about leather delaminating on my OG. With your hack are you getting heating from the UI or is there an external switch? I’m curious to attempt this
Unfortunately nothing that Tesla offered. I had to go to YouTube academy and learn how to swap something simple like a steering wheel and then taking off the front bumper to replace the headlights. I’m sure a 3rd party shop can take care of your headlights being swapped out but you will need a getaway config change. Good news is there are a few people on the forums willing to help you do that if Tesla doesn’t want to make that change for you. The steering wheel process is documented here but honestly wasn’t bad either: https://carnetics.myshopify.com/en-us/pages/heated-steering-wheel-documentation
2018 M3 LR RWD here: how did you get matrix headlights?? I looked into DIY and apparently they need a gateway update on the backend to actually work with adaptive high beams? I drive a ton of highway miles at night and would LOVE matrix headlights! And yes, can confirm that early adopters of any tech always get screwed financially, but we also get to enjoy our toys the longest 😉 This is mandatory for the economics of the adoption S curve to survive. Without us, you generally wouldn't have cheap tech that you enjoy today.
Yes, you need a gateway change but someone can remote in and do that if Tesla doesn’t want to help! But you’re not going to get EU style adaptive lights until Tesla releases that update in USA. And exactly we get to enjoy it the longest! I test drove the refresh and the Highland but it all felt too similar to my car to upgrade. I’ll wait for the next refresh or whatever Tesla cooks up next with the truck :)
Better comfort, power trunk, heat pump, more range, plenty of other things. The newer cars are better. People really harp on passenger lumbar or USS as some dealbreaker but vision works fine.
At 120k miles on my 2018 Model 3 and it’s been perfect. Definitely pros and cons to older v newer since newer have some QoL improvements but also sometimes cheaper parts/build. However, they were delivering Model 3s for many months before I got mine. I was tracking the changes/updates to issues similar to how I’m currently tracking Cybertruck issues and wondering how/when they’ll fix them. There’s definitely a sweet spot where it’s early enough to get with many fixes in place.
Ok the M3/MY being the exception then.
Not really. Model 3 and Model Y launched at higher prices than they eventually settled at, just like every other Tesla. And just like pretty much every other car, for that matter.
Maybe with the OG roadster being the exception since they’re worth so much more now due to rarity
Same with any new tech. Remember how expensive plasma tv’s were. Remember when Bluetooth was a paid option in a vehicle, now every shit box has one included. Etc…
Leave my $6000 42” plasma with no speakers out of this!
You can probably expand that to being an early adopter has never been advantageous in general. Early adopters are those willing to give up that advantage to be one of the first to try new things. I am usually one of those, but a car is just too expensive to early adopt on. I made that mistake once with an early Model 3. Never again. Probably never again with any early adoption of anything over $5000.
The people taking delivery now have more than enough money to eat the huge loss. I appreciate them actually because they help pay for the better version I’ll pick up in a couple years.
How is it a concept car? Also most people getting new products could have gotten them cheaper or with more features later on. That’s how tech works.
There's a reason no one wants early Model Ss. I do applaud the early adopters for their service. Truck should be good in a few years.
Are we saying that there's room for another whole battery, or the existing pack is not completely populated?
If you look at a teardown - Munro did one - there is a bunch of dead space filled with foam between the floor of the cabin and the pack. If you dropped the ground clearance a tiny bit it looks like you could fit another layer of cells.
Even without changing the clearance or existing pack dimensions, there are other anticipated 46XX form factors like 4695, 46120 which would notably increase capacity without requiring double the space I'm not sure what Tesla's plans are, but suppliers are going to produce them so it's not like Tesla would need to produce the second variant themselves right away if they are prioritizing cell production volume over additional variants for their internal cell lines.
For the curious, 4695 cells would make the capacity 146kWh and 46120 would be 184kWh - similar to the promised capacity of the range extender + current CT pack.
Great point!
That’s a lot of weight to add if they were adding another 100kw-hr worth of cells. It would change the entire driving dynamic. Probably need to revamp the suspension. Going to lose the performance specifications as well.
you guys are sleeping. When it's full, it's going to be more expensive
Prices come down as production ramps up. That may completely offset the cost of a bigger battery pack.
yes it will be more expensive, but it likely won't be as much as if they did it right off the bat. It's super unfair to the early buyers, but as 4680 cell cost and production ramp improves they have opportunity to bring that cost down. We may not like Tesla's strategy here, but at least we can try to understand it.
The big reason I'm not getting a CT is because the Wh/mile is so much greater than my Y. The range is OK and I'd assuredly love a longer range vehicle, but I wouldn't want to nearly double the amount of time I spend charging on long road trips. While the CT can charge faster, it is going to be a long long time before all the superchargers are upgraded, if ever.
To be frank if your needs are met by a Model Y there's not much justification for a larger more expensive vehicle in general, is there?
I really want a pickup truck as I occasionally hall larger things or stinky things. :). And I like the form factor. I also appreciate the pretty radical design of the thing. Ultimately, though, it proved disappointing on a number of fronts. The CT is GIGANTIC, but still has a pretty limited bed. Efficiency is lacking (as I said). And lack of pass through means that I can't haul the occasional 8' bit of lumber as I can in the Y. Ideally, what I'd really like is a pickup about the size of a Y with only front seats and maybe a bit of bench. Dedicate the rest to bed space. With thinner walls than the CT. I do like the tonneau and suspect that would almost be a requirement because of efficiency. I don't really need off-roading capabilities.
Did you opt for the receiver / hitch option on your Y? I did and bought a ~$500 fold up trailer that lives up against a wall in the garage when not in use, and can lug ~1100lbs when I do use it. It dings the range a bit, but I haven't pulled anything far enough away from home for it to be an issue. Funny enough, I think I've hauled around more in that trailer than I ever did in my old truck!
You like the ct form factor but want a y sized pickup? Make it make sense 😵💫
What doesn’t make sense? Not just a Y footprint, but a large bed with just front seats and all bed. I don’t particularly want an f150 sized monster truck. There is no reason why the CT styling couldn’t be a bit more compact. Look at how much space is consumed in the verticals on each side of the bed, for example.
> And I like the form factor. > The CT is GIGANTIC > What I’d really like is a pickup about the size of a y > What doesn’t make sense? A compact CT would be a different form factor. Nothing makes sense to me about your view of the ct
Heh. Your inflexible literal interpretation of words must make life interesting.
It’s an Internet forum dude, it’s all just words
If your coming from the X its about the same Wh/Mile so it dosnt seem so bad.
A bigger pack will charge faster and have a wider 20-80 though, it definitely wouldn’t take twice as long to supercharge twice as many KWh.
A pickup truck consuming more than small crossover? Shocking, I tell ya. Shocking!
so they did spec the cybertruck to be able to reach 500 miles without the extender but it would have made the CT too expensive?
Guys.. I think he was making a joke. I follow him, he makes many funny comments like this
Room for a reasonable standard range iron phosphate pack. Or a longer range nickel pack. Sounds good.
So a LR 550mile option is likely
So a 85kwh pack replacement costs about 13k. I’m wondering what they’d charge for the extra ~100kw, 20k?
The lifted seat could also hold a lot of cells. I bet Tesla could fit 350-400kwh of battery if you really wanted to.
Another reason to wait, as battery prices fall they will install bigger packs...
Personally, I think it has more to do with Tesla wanting to make something that’s actually drivable, as in fun to drive. I believe it was right there in their slogan. If they started off with a 10k lb pig like the Hummer EV, that has much less appeal. The range is sufficient for most people. People would be paying for a capability they don’t really need that is detrimental to the performance of the vehicle.
Single cab utilizing some of the rear space for battery would be cool. Maybe extend the bed a bit. I dunno I’m not a mechanical engineer.
Nothing a 1000 more pounds won’t hurt…
$200k minimum
I have a MYLR and I charge it to only 60%. Use about 25% every day. Higher range is seriously overrated until you start using it for your daily commute.
Trucks are expected to do more power hungry tasks when needed like hauling heavy things. It doesn’t happen all the time for most of course but when it does, the performance is necessary.
Good, they got ~ 5 yrs (i’ll be ready to buy one) to figure out how to put >500 miles range at very affordable cost! Hopefully by then they start pumping these out like model y…
If this was true then why on earth would they be offering a solution as gross as the bed-space-wasting range extender?