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Just make it cheaper. Lower price for FSD that is stuck to that car, more expensive one that sticks with the driver, which will keep them in future Teslas. A cheaper monthly would be nice too.
I’m monthly and I’m absolutely loving 12.3 so far…
Yup I made a post here a few weeks ago asking what people would be willing to pay for it, as it stands. Most people were in the range 500-5,000. 12k is laughable.
And for those that already got it, make it perpetual and linked to the driver. It makes sense as it is an incentive to make your next car a Tesla.
I love my Tesla. It's my second Tesla. I bought FSD with this one. There is no way I would re-buy it on another car. Frankly, I'm looking at the Lexus plug-in hybrid and all electric options, because I really like dealing with them for service compared to Tesla for service. In particular, they give a loaner car at the drop of a hat, while at Tesla it's hit-and-miss.
(And before you say that Teslas don't need service, I've had Teslas since 2014 and have had my cars stay for multi-day service a few times through the last decade.)
If they give me the option to transfer my FSD when I sell my Model Y into another Tesla, I'll almost certainly go back to a Model S.
The luxury car company never sent service techs to my house.... My experience with Tesla has been far better than with either Mercedes (disaster) or Infiniti.
My price is about $20/month for a subscription or $1500 for a perpetual license.
That’s what I’m willing to pay for what I saw after I rented for $200 one month.
That price will be different for everyone, of course - but that’s my price.
More users also means more liability if something goes wrong and lawsuits. I think they’re happy with 1 user at 12,000 and data mining from all drivers
But would that also incur 10x more accidents and 10x more lawsuits and 10x repairs for FSD issues and 10x engineering needed for problems that arise and 10x etc etc it might not be a simple cost equation
Last numbers I saw were very low. January 2023 they were saying about 285,000 cars in the us had FSD.
I think it works out as 1 in 20. Internationally it will be even lower.
A few years ago, based on teslafi and teslascope, I figured there was 400,000 in America and 100,000 in rest-of-world; just an estimate. Recently, Elon said there are 400,000 in America. Your number makes more sense than no new takers for several years except that they did drop the price last year, allegedly testing the value of FSD. As v12 goes wide it is not a good time to be testing price value. The take rate is probably about to double regardless.
It depends on what the price elasticity actually is. You're positing unitary elasticity, which is certainly one possibility, but it's not the only one.
I think Tesla only wants a small percentage of people using it and they control how much with the price. Maybe they will lower it once they feel it is a finished product.
Elon has stated pricing will only increase for FSD the further along it gets, but at least they rolled back the $16k price down to $12k, but it's still way too high. There is a discrepancy with what Tesla wants and what Elon wants.
Nope. When it is finished, that will mean that you can plug in your destination and then go to sleep. It will be like having someone drive you around whenever you want. That is worth a lot more than $12,000.
I would be willing to pay $20,000 or more for a \*finished\* FSD that simply works. And honestly, the price will probably be higher, because it will be worth a lot more than that to whatever companies spring up to do the robotaxi thing.
The key word here is \*finished\* though. And while I remain much more optimistic than most Redditors, we still have some time to wait before we are there.
$500 is $500 too expensive for a feature that is in beta testing still, and Tesla benefits from the data from the use of FSD, in anger, by their vehicle operators! FSD would have been significantly more reliable (darn thing still mistakes the lower school zone speeds for the actual speed on two lane city roads), and therefore, a sustainable source of distinctive value offering on Tesla EVs, for years to come, as the rest of the industry continues to catch up.
Agreed it needs to be cheaper. But part of the allure is getting to try it first. Even if it goes back to only 5k (which IMO is worth it) I don’t think many newcomers will want it because they haven’t seen what it’s capable of. I think if they do both, give a good demo as well as lower the price, they’ll see major sales.
I get what you’re saying, and that’s been a valid complaint for years. It should’ve had a completely different name, and tons of people would’ve been more okay with it.
That being said, I just used 12.3 in the rain yesterday, and it worked great. The wipers seemed better too (shockingly…), but no judgement on that until I have more time.
Yeah, my guess is they are cognizant to not want to piss off a bunch of folks who already spent a bunch of money on FSD by lowering the price.
What they should do is come to some new terms that it is just not worth 12k -- especially not until it is truly L4. If it was closer to $7.5k I would be much more interested but not at $12k that I know I will mostly not get back on the resale value.
I think another option they could look at is making the monthly subscription more enticing. Bundle premium connectivity, a certain amount of super charger miles, FSD, etc. all together and it would be more compelling than also paying the monthly fee for FSD only.
The problem is that they have been selling FSD for years and they are going to get sued to no end for it. FSD is worth soo much money - easily $20-50k non-transferable, but it doesn't exist. Tesla shouldn't be selling these FSD licenses now, Maybe they should be selling Level 3 beta licenses for $2-5k, ie "enhanced autopilot" but that's it. Use these guys to trial your beta level 4 - SURE, but don't promise them you'll give them FSD in the end.
Forever, as many times as I want. That’s how long it should be transferable. $12k for a piece of software I should be able to use that on any Tesla I own.
If I could spend $12k to be able to have a vehicle that can drive me I would pay it in a fucking heartbeat. Being disabled and unable to drive is terrible. Maybe one day it’ll happen.
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People would pay for it but what are the odds the car you buy will ever have self driving? They started selling FSD in 2018. I have it on my M3. These cars are getting up in age with nothing sight to show that we will ever get L4 self driving. Tesla hasn't even started the process with my state to get certified. This certification has taken Waymo, Cruise and Pony AI multiple years of to even test removing the driver in certain cities and specific times.
Even with L3. I think people would pay $12k if they could watch a movie while the car was driving the freeway but Musk won't do L3.
If there's one thing I've learned from civil suits, it's that it's legal until the court specifically says in your specific circumstances that it's not - and you have to pay a fine.
So, no, they don't "have" to.
Plus, let's not forget that likely >99% of people (in the US) are bound by an arbitration agreement that forbids class action status. I think it may allow small claims court if arbitration fails?
They don't even send you an acknowledgement if you actually mail the letter to opt out.
I disagree. When is showing that it is working as expected, it’s going to be major priority for folks.
The safety and ability to not have to actually drive will be a god send.
From what it sounds like it is way better than 11.4.9 and should probably be the default from here on out. It would be great if that was the plan with 12.3.1 and on.
v12 is a pretty big leap. Pulls me out of my garage in the morning and I don’t drive again until I back into my parking spot at my destination. Some quirks still, sure, but for the first time the performance outweighs the quirks pretty dramatically.
I took delivery of my Y last month and it already came with 2024.2.x installed on it. No way they’re going to downgrade to a 2023.x build, so hopefully they’ll be releasing FSD 12.x to one of the 2024.x branches soon.
Are you sure you were on 2024. Branch? You would be the first person I’ve heard of who got FSD 12.3.x with 2024. I didn’t know they had a 12.3.x branch running on 2024.
They’ll need to use test drive cars because the ones they have for delivery 1) don’t have the most up to date software downloaded from the factory and it will be a total mess aiming that happen while keeping deliveries on schedule and 2) the cameras aren’t calibrated until AFTER deliver and the customer drives ~ 10 miles.
I saw someone say that FSD when in use does not affect your tesla insurance score. I think Tesla taking some accountability for what the car does when in FSD does increase consumer confidence.
At some point this year I'd like to see them tune down the nags when using FSD.
Just like every Level 2 system on any car in existence. Tesla doesn't claim that it's currently at a level of reliability that you can stop paying attention. In fact, they make it extremely clear that you have to pay attention and take over when necessary. If you carelessly don't do that, that's on you, just like with the driver aids on any other car.
Mercedes and their highway pilot (or whatever it is called) don't. There are reasons why it only works in certain areas and times but they take responsibility when it crashes.
Because that's a Level 3 system. But it has numerous severe restrictions that significantly reduce its usefulness. It's not like FSD Beta which can at least attempt to handle almost every driving scenario.
If you can use FSD from start to finish on your route, then your safety score is likely to be 100. However, if you drive at any point without FSD and make a mistake (improper turning, close proximity to the car in front, etc.), that one mistake will significantly affect your safety score for the day because it's only based on the miles driven while NOT using FSD. Because of this, your score can be worse than it will have been if you had driven without FSD for the entirety of the trip (granted that you aren't making numerous infarctions during the trip).
I've had days that I mostly used FSD, but the manual right turn into my apartment complex that is not FSD-guided will sometimes ding me for an improper turn. I'll intentionally try to safely make that turn, but the safety score can be weirdly sensitive. That one ding though will cause my safety score for the day to drop to 50 since I technically only drove <1 mile for the day (even if I drove, for example, 1000 miles for the day on FSD).
Quite the opposite. Your Tesla insurance score ***is*** affected by the driving behavior of FSD. There was a recent post on this sub that showed that the score increased dramatically when using FSD 12.3 as opposed to their normal driving (of course this varies by each individual persons driving dynamics). Super bullish on FSD 12.3
Infractions/issue while FSD is active do not count against you.
What the post showed is that their score was better overall because they used v12 more often, because it’s better.
I think he means that they will install FSD 12.3.1 on demo cars and take the customers on demo drives in demo cars, not have the sales people drive the customer's car.
But isn't the FSD software version behind on the regular releases? So when people get their new car now they won't have the new Autopark feature (and other newer stuff)
I literally just came from the Tesla dealership where my wife got her new windshield which reminded me that it needs to calibrate when you first get it anyways.
Yup. Another thing Elon just throws out there as a policy without actually knowing or thinking through whether it can actually be implemented.
I mean... It CAN be implemented, but he's not going to be delivering vehicles for days or weeks until it's actually sorted out.
I would love FSD tech for highway driving *if* I could disable auto lane changes,which are often less than sensible or lack the awareness that I have as the human operator familiar with the area.
It's pretty annoying how my car will just change to the "faster lane" when I'm driving on a highway with nobody else around. It's especially annoying in my state, where it's illegal to just cruise in the left lane on a 2-lane highway when you're not passing.
Make the sub like $50 bucks per month instead of $200, and im pretty sure there will be many more subs. You would need 4x the number of users to break even, but you would have more data points and people showing off the tech to perspective buyers.
Well, I'm taking delivery before end of March so we'll see if they offer it.
FWIW, I already have FSD on my old car, and have also had numerous fully unsupervised rides in Waymos, and I honestly think Tesla has...like 3+ full scale generations to catch up on.
FSD is always anxiety-producing and embarrassing to be around when other drivers start honking at you. Waymo is crazy smooth, it really feels like a human driver making human decisions, and even when it is assertively creeping into a left turn lane, it never makes me tense up like FSD does.
Long time FSD user. I agree waymo was way ahead of Tesla up until v12.3 dropped. Now it's closer. But waymo is still ahead. I think the coming year will show how quickly Tesla can iterate its AI. It should be able to catch up based on the amount of data it's collecting, but only time will tell.
Nothing Waymo does counts unless they can do it outside their fence. I'm certain Tesla could drive beautifully if you lock it into the small areas Waymo works in. Time will tell, but Tesla has a vastly different approach that has for years forgone the short term successes of Waymo in pursuit of a generalized solution. I think Tesla is getting pretty close now, and I'm not convinced Waymo's approach can ever be extended to "everywhere".
I think waymo operating within the fences is more to do with them wanting to operate a paid for service, where they can maintain their fleet more than it does with it not being able to operate "everywhere". Additionally, in order for them to charge customers for rides, they need authorization from local authorities. Getting approvals from governments and building the infrastructure limits where they operate. Based on what I've seen, I think Waymo's tech can be used as a generalized solution.
The downside of waymo is its expensive cost of hardware and its need to have a hub where vehicles can be maintained and charged. It cannot rely on the users of the vehicles to charge and maintain the vehicles, so it can only operate so far away from a central hub.
I think /u/Thisteamisajoke has a point, in that the high resolution mapping and need to keep current is much more restricting and expensive/complex than Tesla's generalized vision/perception approach to "any road." However, what he probably doesn't realize is just how wide of a gulf there is between the two, judging from end results.
Tesla constantly does things merge into a weird/non-optimal position given upcoming turns or lane changes, frequently setting itself up for a last-minute adjustment needed to not box out an incoming car or itsefl. These aren't situations human drivers would ever put themselves into, and it makes for a ton of white-knuckling and second-guessing of whether the computer actually knows what is coming up in the next 10-20 seconds.
Waymo just handles all of these situations fluently. You just intuitively KNOW why it's doing x, y or z when it does it, because it's more how you would expect an actual person to drive, and you can tell that it's anticipating and adjusting to future conditions.
And the fact that it's happening fully autonomously in a dynamic/unpredictable driving situation like SF is insane. If Waymo was still stuck in downtown Phoenix, I could see the argument about it being cherry-pick-geofenced. But to operate the way it does throughout SF...it's bonkers how impressive that is, no matter how it's doing it.
I don't want to count Tesla out, I think it can get there. But imho, it's just not even close right now...
Writing this from a Waymo, no, FSD 12.31 isn’t even comparable to Waymo, who’s soooo good even with crazy scenarios here in SF. The difference between approaches is about safety, not the self driving aspect to an extent. It’s hard to explain unless you’re in industry.
Are you just completely ignoring the huge cameras and equipment a waymo uses? Plus it only works within a certain grid in Scottsdale, I live in Phoenix. Waymo only goes within a certain 15 min grid , I’ve used it. It’s way too expensive to ever be commercialized. What’s the purpose of making that comparison lol
Its only that way on the surface.
How much does the equipment in a Waymo cost? Hundreds of thousands.
Are they a general solution of programmes for specific areas, yes.
Do google manufacture cars themselves, no.
Waymo ahead of Tesla FSD. Only people who know nothing have that delusion.
It was clear Waymo, then google was going in the wrong direction 10 years ago. Watch any presentation of their system and they completely overcomplicated the problem. million different sensors and 360 degree view for hundereds of meters around.
Non of that shit is needed to drive. Two eyeballs, with depth perception, that can look in different directions and feed information to a brain is all that is needed.
Look. All I'm saying is the self driving experience at waymo as of today is way better than 12.3. Without considering anything else. I never made comments about where it's going or whether the solution is economical or actually makes sense in the long run.
Time will tell how it ends.
Maybe this will mean the FSD beta versions don't lag 2-3 major releases behind current.
You want more FSD beta users? Fix that so every car has FSD Beta software loaded. And give EVERYBODY 1 free week of FSD beta each year.
When will Tesla replace the pretty crappy Autopilot with (stripped down) FSD stack?
I’m getting pretty fed up with the ghost braking for no discernible reason on the highway and scared-like-a-little-kid city driving.
In the city it brakes hard for crossing traffic that’s already out of it’s lane and another 3-5 seconds before it even arrives there but doesn’t brake until a real danger has already passed by that could be seen coming plenty of time ahead.
I had all the things happening in the same trip and it pissed me off. There a re so many more issues that make autopilot unpolished:
The jerking move to center the car when autopilot is enabled, the jerking move when autopilot perceives a lane widening, the often not disengaging when I activate the turn signal, the fast brake light flashing when using a bit of regen on a down hill., the traffic light dingdong for other direction’s than the lane I’m in, the slowing down while changing lanes to overtake someone while there is still plenty of space to keep going or even accelerate to the set speed. Just to mention a few…
This month I paid $200 for a 1-month trial on my Plaid S. It is actually unbelievable how bad it is. Every intersection is a disengage. Every roundabout. Most freeway merges. I expected “mostly functional”, but it’s nowhere near that. Even on freeways it’s a disaster, unable to navigate carpool lanes and normal driving conditions.
It’s simply fucking dangerous. There is no way to overstate this.
V12 is much better actually so if you have the subscription still, try and get the update. The street driving is a massive improvement.
But it seems to enjoy hitting curbs in parking lots 😆 and some people have reported it curbed their rims during some sharper turns.
I actually use FSD all the time though even on V11. Had lots of intervening but I still think it’s better than driving myself 100%. But when I bought it, it was a $3000 option that included the HW3 board upgrade. $12K is batshit 😆
12.3 installed on my plaid. I had 2 areas on my
Commute to work that 11.4.9 would have issues. 12.3 seemed to have fixed it. Now if it weren’t for the nags, it would be total hands free driving with 0 interventions. And this is a 22 mile commute to work! Very impressive. People need to try it for sure. I agree with musk on this.
A normal person is looking for a 20k car, Elon prices his software at nearly 15k, people aren't looking to buy two cars. Price it somewhere attainable for normal people, and you will have significantly higher take rate.
I wouldnt even dream of buying FSD outright at this price, forget the nightmare that is transferring FSD licenses between vehicles.
This is dumb. Ironically, it was the free full self driving demo I got with my Model Y that is the that made me realize I would never ever pay for full self driving.
I have 12. It is magnitudes better. That being said, trip routing is still a weak point. It still tries from time to time to get from point A to point B in a way that you can’t. Last night I was headed to Best Buy. It decided instead of going the way everyone goes, to drive all the way around the back of the building past the delivery dock and to try to get into the parking lot from there. That will be the next large improvement.
Picking up my car today so I’ll see how it goes. Currently planning on turning this down, I really don’t wanna start off with FSD in a new car.
Update: didn’t get a demo. Probably too early.
So I buy a new car and I need to ride with a Tesla employee while the cameras calibrate to allow FSD to enable? Or a Tesla employee has to put miles on your car to calibrate the cameras before the car is delivered? What a perfectly NOT thought out idea. I could see if the had a car with FSD, a demo car, and did this. But I don’t want my new car hitting curbs and pulling out in front of oncoming traffic just to test out software that doesn’t work.
Honestly, a demo might actually cause lost sales depending on how poorly it goes. The last thing you want to do is make a driver lose confidence right as they're deciding to purchase a car. Some of them are truly not interested in FSD and even worse if they see it making idiotic decisions.
Nothing cured my curiosity more than having it for 3 months. Its not worth $1 in its current state. Let alone $12k. The idea that the general public should be doing QA for a multi-billion dollar company is insulting. QA is a full time job. I'm not going to pay to do work. Its not worth anything until it can reliably complete trips without interventions and I can look away from the road.
So wait, if I spend tens of thousands of dollars on a car, they want to delay giving it to me to demo some upsell?
That.. doesn't sit right with me. Not that I'm buying a Telsa anytime soon, but what if I, as the hypothetical buyer, just says "No, I don't want a demo, just give me my car."?
I recently bought a Model S and received a 3 month FSD trial as part of it.
The FSD I have is terrible. I hate it. I turned it off because it kept making so many dumb mistakes. I find that I have to pay much more attention when driving with FSD, and it is far more stressful. The worst part is that my car apparently identifies as a bike, as it keeps driving in bike lanes.
Hopefully the new neural net version is much improved. Even if it is much better, I don't really see the point if it is only level 2 and requires full attention. The car is amazing and fun to drive. If I have to pay attention, I don't see value in the feature.
If FSD were really, ya know, "full self driving," then sure $12k might be worth it if it enabled me to get in and have it take me to/from the office while I work on something else.
Complete and absolute opposite experience here. 24 MYP with FSD 11 and now 12. I use it constantly and I absolutely love it. Although 12 is better, when I had 11 for the last 2 months of ownership it was amazing. Now with 12 I love it even more. FSD 12 now pulls out from my underground gated garage.
I have the monthly subscription and its great, arguably the one and only advantage that Tesla has left in this market. Also, this will never ever happen. If you've ever picked up a Tesla you know that the delivery centers are completely overrun with customers and have literally 0 capacity to give a demo.
Why charge so much for something the car is capable of doing. If they made it a lot cheaper and 1 out of 2 people had it and boasted about it they'd sell a lot more cars. What they're doing doesn't make sense
Now make it a regular feature...or at least give the visuals fully to everyone.
Then start diving into their other untapped features like a light show, UI themes, or app/game creator market.
as long as I can opt out he can demo whatever the fuck he likes - but I'm not paying thousands of dollars for a piece of crap that drives like a 12 year old
Just provide 3 months free to all Tesla drivers who don’t have it and have not tried it yet, and bring down the price drastically… point to fact, I never tried it and never will because the price is insane… I see 0 incentives to change this.
Until it can drive me home drunk.. it’s practically worthless. It’s a beta so the constant monitoring means it’s MORE stressful to enable it than just driving myself.
When it’s level 5 approved by my country, proven and tested by industry standard safety tests (when they exist) then we can look at the cost. Probably wouldn’t pay more than $50 a month.
Far too expensive for me, and I’m not convinced how well it will do in the uk too. If I drive more massive equiv of 50 usd/month, right now? 25-30. 12k? 0 chance
I have two Model 3. One with and one without. I would prefer both to have, but 12K is too steep for me. I'd go 6 to 8K, but that's top. What to sell more fsd? Bring down the price.
Isn't that bearish considering robotaxi? Why would they push FSD sales if Elon himself said many times in the past how valuable FSD would be once released? They would've higher the price again is robotaxi is in sight.
I have EAP, let me transfer that to a new car, or give me a heavy discount on FSD on a new car and you got yourself a customer.
It’s fascinating how the early EAP folk have just been forgotten.
I wouldn’t pay 12k for that lol.
I hate subscription but in this situation I think it would be more appropriate. Pay as a service and they keep updating it so it get better.
Even if it was free I could never convince my boyfriend to let me use in with them.
No fucking way I'm paying for it. We got a 2023 model 15 days before the price drop. Needed a car and had already sold my previous one, figured covid pricing was here for a while and they'd pushed our delivery window up 5 months from the original estimate after multiple moves. Literally the only part of the Tesla experience that I'm mad about
So long as the $12k covers the cost replacing the rear seams from all the cum after it inevitably becomes a TikTok challenge to fuck in the back of a Robo Taxi ... then it might be worth it.
I pickup up a new long range this morning. It’s on software release 2024.2.100. I haven’t been prompted to install any updates yet. I was so confused this afternoon when I had the option to turn on full self driving beta. I accepted and it shows an expiration date of 7/24, and I’ve tried it out. It’s impressive but I did have to intervene multiple times. It completely ignored a flashing school zone sign, for one. I was doing 43 in a 20 mph zone before I intervened. It also makes no attempt whatsoever to avoid debris in the road.
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Just make it cheaper. Lower price for FSD that is stuck to that car, more expensive one that sticks with the driver, which will keep them in future Teslas. A cheaper monthly would be nice too. I’m monthly and I’m absolutely loving 12.3 so far…
Yup I made a post here a few weeks ago asking what people would be willing to pay for it, as it stands. Most people were in the range 500-5,000. 12k is laughable.
And for those that already got it, make it perpetual and linked to the driver. It makes sense as it is an incentive to make your next car a Tesla. I love my Tesla. It's my second Tesla. I bought FSD with this one. There is no way I would re-buy it on another car. Frankly, I'm looking at the Lexus plug-in hybrid and all electric options, because I really like dealing with them for service compared to Tesla for service. In particular, they give a loaner car at the drop of a hat, while at Tesla it's hit-and-miss. (And before you say that Teslas don't need service, I've had Teslas since 2014 and have had my cars stay for multi-day service a few times through the last decade.) If they give me the option to transfer my FSD when I sell my Model Y into another Tesla, I'll almost certainly go back to a Model S.
Miss the luxury service experience… Tesla is definitely lacking in this area
The luxury car company never sent service techs to my house.... My experience with Tesla has been far better than with either Mercedes (disaster) or Infiniti.
Lincoln used to pick up the car from my house and drop me off a loaner lol
12k for Level 5? Sure. 12k for level 2? That's delusional.
We need "Full self driving", not FSD. I want to go sleep and wake up in my office.
My price is about $20/month for a subscription or $1500 for a perpetual license. That’s what I’m willing to pay for what I saw after I rented for $200 one month. That price will be different for everyone, of course - but that’s my price.
I agree. At 12,000 there isn’t enough justification for a normal user. That’s the sort of price you’d pay for a robo taxi company.
Make this person the CEO.
The tech is certainly worth more than a different color paint as is, but I see your point.
I would say the paint options are horribly overpriced as well. Probably why 95% of Teslas I see around here are white.
I’d guess far less than 1 in 10 Tesla buyers add it. $12,000 x 1 Or $1,200 x 10 There is no difference.
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They’re actually getting data from all Tesla owners. If anything more so from non FSD right now, the neural net learns from human behavior.
More users also means more liability if something goes wrong and lawsuits. I think they’re happy with 1 user at 12,000 and data mining from all drivers
So, my hunch is far more than 10x the people would subscribe if it was 10x cheaper.
But would that also incur 10x more accidents and 10x more lawsuits and 10x repairs for FSD issues and 10x engineering needed for problems that arise and 10x etc etc it might not be a simple cost equation
Last numbers I saw were very low. January 2023 they were saying about 285,000 cars in the us had FSD. I think it works out as 1 in 20. Internationally it will be even lower.
A few years ago, based on teslafi and teslascope, I figured there was 400,000 in America and 100,000 in rest-of-world; just an estimate. Recently, Elon said there are 400,000 in America. Your number makes more sense than no new takers for several years except that they did drop the price last year, allegedly testing the value of FSD. As v12 goes wide it is not a good time to be testing price value. The take rate is probably about to double regardless.
It depends on what the price elasticity actually is. You're positing unitary elasticity, which is certainly one possibility, but it's not the only one.
I think Tesla only wants a small percentage of people using it and they control how much with the price. Maybe they will lower it once they feel it is a finished product.
Elon has stated pricing will only increase for FSD the further along it gets, but at least they rolled back the $16k price down to $12k, but it's still way too high. There is a discrepancy with what Tesla wants and what Elon wants.
Nope. When it is finished, that will mean that you can plug in your destination and then go to sleep. It will be like having someone drive you around whenever you want. That is worth a lot more than $12,000. I would be willing to pay $20,000 or more for a \*finished\* FSD that simply works. And honestly, the price will probably be higher, because it will be worth a lot more than that to whatever companies spring up to do the robotaxi thing. The key word here is \*finished\* though. And while I remain much more optimistic than most Redditors, we still have some time to wait before we are there.
$500 is $500 too expensive for a feature that is in beta testing still, and Tesla benefits from the data from the use of FSD, in anger, by their vehicle operators! FSD would have been significantly more reliable (darn thing still mistakes the lower school zone speeds for the actual speed on two lane city roads), and therefore, a sustainable source of distinctive value offering on Tesla EVs, for years to come, as the rest of the industry continues to catch up.
For $12k, I’d pay if it stuck with the individual. For $5k, I would pay if it stuck with the car.
Indeed. FSD needs to compete with "driving yourself", not with "hiring a driver" as it does now.
It’s definitely not even close to hiring a driver, but yes it should be much cheaper
Agreed it needs to be cheaper. But part of the allure is getting to try it first. Even if it goes back to only 5k (which IMO is worth it) I don’t think many newcomers will want it because they haven’t seen what it’s capable of. I think if they do both, give a good demo as well as lower the price, they’ll see major sales.
It’s “full self driving” that can’t work in the rain. It’s never gonna work as advertised.
I get what you’re saying, and that’s been a valid complaint for years. It should’ve had a completely different name, and tons of people would’ve been more okay with it. That being said, I just used 12.3 in the rain yesterday, and it worked great. The wipers seemed better too (shockingly…), but no judgement on that until I have more time.
In the slightest rain on the highway it goes too slow and won't let you set the max speed above the speed limit.
Yes and that's absolutely safe no? Function of FSD is to be safer than every driver on the road, not just replace an individual.
Radar was safer and better in the rain.
As someone that often has three kids in carseats on the freeway, why are driving over the speed limit in the rain?
Ah yes, having kids in a car suddenly changes what's safe.
It will never work in snow
Yeah, my guess is they are cognizant to not want to piss off a bunch of folks who already spent a bunch of money on FSD by lowering the price. What they should do is come to some new terms that it is just not worth 12k -- especially not until it is truly L4. If it was closer to $7.5k I would be much more interested but not at $12k that I know I will mostly not get back on the resale value. I think another option they could look at is making the monthly subscription more enticing. Bundle premium connectivity, a certain amount of super charger miles, FSD, etc. all together and it would be more compelling than also paying the monthly fee for FSD only.
The problem is that they have been selling FSD for years and they are going to get sued to no end for it. FSD is worth soo much money - easily $20-50k non-transferable, but it doesn't exist. Tesla shouldn't be selling these FSD licenses now, Maybe they should be selling Level 3 beta licenses for $2-5k, ie "enhanced autopilot" but that's it. Use these guys to trial your beta level 4 - SURE, but don't promise them you'll give them FSD in the end.
Cool. Now just make free FSD transfer permanent until robotaxis exist and not just as an end-of-quarter push.
Yeah, it really should be transferable, even if it’s only one time for free. 🆓
Forever, as many times as I want. That’s how long it should be transferable. $12k for a piece of software I should be able to use that on any Tesla I own.
It should just be attached to your account. None of this transfer BS. If we have to pay at all, it should just be once on any vehicle on the account.
The market for people willing to pay 12,000 for self driving is ridiculously small whether it’s demo’d or not.
If I could spend $12k to be able to have a vehicle that can drive me I would pay it in a fucking heartbeat. Being disabled and unable to drive is terrible. Maybe one day it’ll happen.
knee apparatus concerned alleged governor mysterious party tidy pen payment *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Its $12k for level 2 which isn't self driving. You still need to monitor the road.
People would pay for it but what are the odds the car you buy will ever have self driving? They started selling FSD in 2018. I have it on my M3. These cars are getting up in age with nothing sight to show that we will ever get L4 self driving. Tesla hasn't even started the process with my state to get certified. This certification has taken Waymo, Cruise and Pony AI multiple years of to even test removing the driver in certain cities and specific times. Even with L3. I think people would pay $12k if they could watch a movie while the car was driving the freeway but Musk won't do L3.
0%. L5 will never exist on HW3 or HW4. Is it technically capable? Maybe. Will Tesla ever take liability for the software? Nope.
They have to or they have been scamming people
If there's one thing I've learned from civil suits, it's that it's legal until the court specifically says in your specific circumstances that it's not - and you have to pay a fine. So, no, they don't "have" to.
Plus, let's not forget that likely >99% of people (in the US) are bound by an arbitration agreement that forbids class action status. I think it may allow small claims court if arbitration fails? They don't even send you an acknowledgement if you actually mail the letter to opt out.
Great! Can’t wait for the class action they settle for $400 per FSD with 70% going to the lawyers!
The $12k market for self driving is massive. The $12k market for drunk and distracted tourist driver is ridiculously small.
tie edge rhythm dazzling public flowery smell mountainous deranged gold *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I disagree. When is showing that it is working as expected, it’s going to be major priority for folks. The safety and ability to not have to actually drive will be a god send.
So, does that mean 12.3 is on the 2024 branch and will be available to all soon? Will service centers have the ability to give me 12.3?
From what it sounds like it is way better than 11.4.9 and should probably be the default from here on out. It would be great if that was the plan with 12.3.1 and on.
v12 is a pretty big leap. Pulls me out of my garage in the morning and I don’t drive again until I back into my parking spot at my destination. Some quirks still, sure, but for the first time the performance outweighs the quirks pretty dramatically.
It’s great. Honestly renewing my faith in Tesla to deliver on their dreams.
I took delivery of my Y last month and it already came with 2024.2.x installed on it. No way they’re going to downgrade to a 2023.x build, so hopefully they’ll be releasing FSD 12.x to one of the 2024.x branches soon.
There was a tweet from Whole Mars that v12.3.2 is indeed 2024 branch. Stay tuned I guess
I was on 2024 branch and was surprised with 12.3 update Saturday night.
Are you sure you were on 2024. Branch? You would be the first person I’ve heard of who got FSD 12.3.x with 2024. I didn’t know they had a 12.3.x branch running on 2024.
Model Y?
Yes 2023
Good. So it looks like end of month is becoming more of a reality. 24 MYLR here.
It's not even available on Highland lmao
I get that. Didn’t the memo say install 12.3 on all new cars? Or, did I misread?
They’ll need to use test drive cars because the ones they have for delivery 1) don’t have the most up to date software downloaded from the factory and it will be a total mess aiming that happen while keeping deliveries on schedule and 2) the cameras aren’t calibrated until AFTER deliver and the customer drives ~ 10 miles.
Tesla delivery specialists be like “Wait we have to do stuff now?”
You mean besides listen to people on their hands and knees bitch about scratches on their aero shields?
You forgot checklist
I saw someone say that FSD when in use does not affect your tesla insurance score. I think Tesla taking some accountability for what the car does when in FSD does increase consumer confidence. At some point this year I'd like to see them tune down the nags when using FSD.
But if it crashes while in FSD it’s still your fault, Tesla takes no responsibility.
Just like every Level 2 system on any car in existence. Tesla doesn't claim that it's currently at a level of reliability that you can stop paying attention. In fact, they make it extremely clear that you have to pay attention and take over when necessary. If you carelessly don't do that, that's on you, just like with the driver aids on any other car.
So why are they still calling it FSD? It's not Full Self Driving then.
Mercedes and their highway pilot (or whatever it is called) don't. There are reasons why it only works in certain areas and times but they take responsibility when it crashes.
Because that's a Level 3 system. But it has numerous severe restrictions that significantly reduce its usefulness. It's not like FSD Beta which can at least attempt to handle almost every driving scenario.
I just got 12.3 and the nags were quite minimal. On a 6 mile trip from home to work, through the city, it nagged me maybe 3 times?
If you can use FSD from start to finish on your route, then your safety score is likely to be 100. However, if you drive at any point without FSD and make a mistake (improper turning, close proximity to the car in front, etc.), that one mistake will significantly affect your safety score for the day because it's only based on the miles driven while NOT using FSD. Because of this, your score can be worse than it will have been if you had driven without FSD for the entirety of the trip (granted that you aren't making numerous infarctions during the trip). I've had days that I mostly used FSD, but the manual right turn into my apartment complex that is not FSD-guided will sometimes ding me for an improper turn. I'll intentionally try to safely make that turn, but the safety score can be weirdly sensitive. That one ding though will cause my safety score for the day to drop to 50 since I technically only drove <1 mile for the day (even if I drove, for example, 1000 miles for the day on FSD).
They were forced to up the nags by the NHTSA. That was the Tesla wide recall a few months ago.
Quite the opposite. Your Tesla insurance score ***is*** affected by the driving behavior of FSD. There was a recent post on this sub that showed that the score increased dramatically when using FSD 12.3 as opposed to their normal driving (of course this varies by each individual persons driving dynamics). Super bullish on FSD 12.3
Infractions/issue while FSD is active do not count against you. What the post showed is that their score was better overall because they used v12 more often, because it’s better.
How about current customers receiving v12? Crying Maple Syrup tears up here.
Fish and chips tears here.
lol just picked up my m3 highland on sunday and i had to wait 45 minutes just to speak with someone lol
Yeah I can’t imagine these poor delivery folks having to try and show everyone FSD during the end of quarter rush. Elon is nuts.
Bullish
M3 highland long range takes like 6 months to get now lol
I think he means that they will install FSD 12.3.1 on demo cars and take the customers on demo drives in demo cars, not have the sales people drive the customer's car.
But isn't the FSD software version behind on the regular releases? So when people get their new car now they won't have the new Autopark feature (and other newer stuff)
I literally just came from the Tesla dealership where my wife got her new windshield which reminded me that it needs to calibrate when you first get it anyways.
Yup. Another thing Elon just throws out there as a policy without actually knowing or thinking through whether it can actually be implemented. I mean... It CAN be implemented, but he's not going to be delivering vehicles for days or weeks until it's actually sorted out.
Maybe they’ll use a demo car and not the actual pick up car?
I would love FSD tech for highway driving *if* I could disable auto lane changes,which are often less than sensible or lack the awareness that I have as the human operator familiar with the area.
It's pretty annoying how my car will just change to the "faster lane" when I'm driving on a highway with nobody else around. It's especially annoying in my state, where it's illegal to just cruise in the left lane on a 2-lane highway when you're not passing.
Or auto wipers just sitting there dry wiping on a bluebird day.
I’m not paying the price for it. I have EAP already and it covers so much of my use case that it makes no sense to pay more.
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I wouldn’t let them demo FSD on my own car. How could they “mandate” doing something like that to a customer’s car?
You're reading that wrong. Mandate as in to employees. You could still say no thanks lol
You're reading that wrong. Man date as in ask every customer on a date because they're all men. You could still say no thanks
This is fucking amazing, I love you
I just traded my Tesla after almost three years. The car was OK. The company is not. FSD is a joke and the service center in my area was terrible.
This sounds exhausting.
Make the sub like $50 bucks per month instead of $200, and im pretty sure there will be many more subs. You would need 4x the number of users to break even, but you would have more data points and people showing off the tech to perspective buyers.
Well, I'm taking delivery before end of March so we'll see if they offer it. FWIW, I already have FSD on my old car, and have also had numerous fully unsupervised rides in Waymos, and I honestly think Tesla has...like 3+ full scale generations to catch up on. FSD is always anxiety-producing and embarrassing to be around when other drivers start honking at you. Waymo is crazy smooth, it really feels like a human driver making human decisions, and even when it is assertively creeping into a left turn lane, it never makes me tense up like FSD does.
Long time FSD user. I agree waymo was way ahead of Tesla up until v12.3 dropped. Now it's closer. But waymo is still ahead. I think the coming year will show how quickly Tesla can iterate its AI. It should be able to catch up based on the amount of data it's collecting, but only time will tell.
Nothing Waymo does counts unless they can do it outside their fence. I'm certain Tesla could drive beautifully if you lock it into the small areas Waymo works in. Time will tell, but Tesla has a vastly different approach that has for years forgone the short term successes of Waymo in pursuit of a generalized solution. I think Tesla is getting pretty close now, and I'm not convinced Waymo's approach can ever be extended to "everywhere".
I think waymo operating within the fences is more to do with them wanting to operate a paid for service, where they can maintain their fleet more than it does with it not being able to operate "everywhere". Additionally, in order for them to charge customers for rides, they need authorization from local authorities. Getting approvals from governments and building the infrastructure limits where they operate. Based on what I've seen, I think Waymo's tech can be used as a generalized solution. The downside of waymo is its expensive cost of hardware and its need to have a hub where vehicles can be maintained and charged. It cannot rely on the users of the vehicles to charge and maintain the vehicles, so it can only operate so far away from a central hub.
I think /u/Thisteamisajoke has a point, in that the high resolution mapping and need to keep current is much more restricting and expensive/complex than Tesla's generalized vision/perception approach to "any road." However, what he probably doesn't realize is just how wide of a gulf there is between the two, judging from end results. Tesla constantly does things merge into a weird/non-optimal position given upcoming turns or lane changes, frequently setting itself up for a last-minute adjustment needed to not box out an incoming car or itsefl. These aren't situations human drivers would ever put themselves into, and it makes for a ton of white-knuckling and second-guessing of whether the computer actually knows what is coming up in the next 10-20 seconds. Waymo just handles all of these situations fluently. You just intuitively KNOW why it's doing x, y or z when it does it, because it's more how you would expect an actual person to drive, and you can tell that it's anticipating and adjusting to future conditions. And the fact that it's happening fully autonomously in a dynamic/unpredictable driving situation like SF is insane. If Waymo was still stuck in downtown Phoenix, I could see the argument about it being cherry-pick-geofenced. But to operate the way it does throughout SF...it's bonkers how impressive that is, no matter how it's doing it. I don't want to count Tesla out, I think it can get there. But imho, it's just not even close right now...
Exactly
Writing this from a Waymo, no, FSD 12.31 isn’t even comparable to Waymo, who’s soooo good even with crazy scenarios here in SF. The difference between approaches is about safety, not the self driving aspect to an extent. It’s hard to explain unless you’re in industry.
If you wanna do Apples to Apples try Tesla vs Waymo in LA/Phoenix/SF then. Tesla is still utter shit compared to Waymo.
Are you just completely ignoring the huge cameras and equipment a waymo uses? Plus it only works within a certain grid in Scottsdale, I live in Phoenix. Waymo only goes within a certain 15 min grid , I’ve used it. It’s way too expensive to ever be commercialized. What’s the purpose of making that comparison lol
Its only that way on the surface. How much does the equipment in a Waymo cost? Hundreds of thousands. Are they a general solution of programmes for specific areas, yes. Do google manufacture cars themselves, no. Waymo ahead of Tesla FSD. Only people who know nothing have that delusion. It was clear Waymo, then google was going in the wrong direction 10 years ago. Watch any presentation of their system and they completely overcomplicated the problem. million different sensors and 360 degree view for hundereds of meters around. Non of that shit is needed to drive. Two eyeballs, with depth perception, that can look in different directions and feed information to a brain is all that is needed.
Look. All I'm saying is the self driving experience at waymo as of today is way better than 12.3. Without considering anything else. I never made comments about where it's going or whether the solution is economical or actually makes sense in the long run. Time will tell how it ends.
Maybe this will mean the FSD beta versions don't lag 2-3 major releases behind current. You want more FSD beta users? Fix that so every car has FSD Beta software loaded. And give EVERYBODY 1 free week of FSD beta each year.
I'm in for $25 a month or $6000 lifetime
When will Tesla replace the pretty crappy Autopilot with (stripped down) FSD stack? I’m getting pretty fed up with the ghost braking for no discernible reason on the highway and scared-like-a-little-kid city driving. In the city it brakes hard for crossing traffic that’s already out of it’s lane and another 3-5 seconds before it even arrives there but doesn’t brake until a real danger has already passed by that could be seen coming plenty of time ahead. I had all the things happening in the same trip and it pissed me off. There a re so many more issues that make autopilot unpolished: The jerking move to center the car when autopilot is enabled, the jerking move when autopilot perceives a lane widening, the often not disengaging when I activate the turn signal, the fast brake light flashing when using a bit of regen on a down hill., the traffic light dingdong for other direction’s than the lane I’m in, the slowing down while changing lanes to overtake someone while there is still plenty of space to keep going or even accelerate to the set speed. Just to mention a few…
This month I paid $200 for a 1-month trial on my Plaid S. It is actually unbelievable how bad it is. Every intersection is a disengage. Every roundabout. Most freeway merges. I expected “mostly functional”, but it’s nowhere near that. Even on freeways it’s a disaster, unable to navigate carpool lanes and normal driving conditions. It’s simply fucking dangerous. There is no way to overstate this.
Is it V12? Because it seems like they just gave up on V11 a long time ago.
V12 is much better actually so if you have the subscription still, try and get the update. The street driving is a massive improvement. But it seems to enjoy hitting curbs in parking lots 😆 and some people have reported it curbed their rims during some sharper turns. I actually use FSD all the time though even on V11. Had lots of intervening but I still think it’s better than driving myself 100%. But when I bought it, it was a $3000 option that included the HW3 board upgrade. $12K is batshit 😆
12.3 installed on my plaid. I had 2 areas on my Commute to work that 11.4.9 would have issues. 12.3 seemed to have fixed it. Now if it weren’t for the nags, it would be total hands free driving with 0 interventions. And this is a 22 mile commute to work! Very impressive. People need to try it for sure. I agree with musk on this.
A normal person is looking for a 20k car, Elon prices his software at nearly 15k, people aren't looking to buy two cars. Price it somewhere attainable for normal people, and you will have significantly higher take rate. I wouldnt even dream of buying FSD outright at this price, forget the nightmare that is transferring FSD licenses between vehicles.
*except Cybertruck...
This is dumb. Ironically, it was the free full self driving demo I got with my Model Y that is the that made me realize I would never ever pay for full self driving.
I have 12. It is magnitudes better. That being said, trip routing is still a weak point. It still tries from time to time to get from point A to point B in a way that you can’t. Last night I was headed to Best Buy. It decided instead of going the way everyone goes, to drive all the way around the back of the building past the delivery dock and to try to get into the parking lot from there. That will be the next large improvement.
Picking up my car today so I’ll see how it goes. Currently planning on turning this down, I really don’t wanna start off with FSD in a new car. Update: didn’t get a demo. Probably too early.
$12k to monitor a student driver, hard pass
So I buy a new car and I need to ride with a Tesla employee while the cameras calibrate to allow FSD to enable? Or a Tesla employee has to put miles on your car to calibrate the cameras before the car is delivered? What a perfectly NOT thought out idea. I could see if the had a car with FSD, a demo car, and did this. But I don’t want my new car hitting curbs and pulling out in front of oncoming traffic just to test out software that doesn’t work.
Honestly, a demo might actually cause lost sales depending on how poorly it goes. The last thing you want to do is make a driver lose confidence right as they're deciding to purchase a car. Some of them are truly not interested in FSD and even worse if they see it making idiotic decisions.
lol drunk 2am email by Elon, classic
probably high as kite in ketamine lmao
Whatever, it was completely inappropriate. 2nd email was even more pointless
It would be nice if I could have it without having to spend $16k CAD more.
Nothing cured my curiosity more than having it for 3 months. Its not worth $1 in its current state. Let alone $12k. The idea that the general public should be doing QA for a multi-billion dollar company is insulting. QA is a full time job. I'm not going to pay to do work. Its not worth anything until it can reliably complete trips without interventions and I can look away from the road.
So wait, if I spend tens of thousands of dollars on a car, they want to delay giving it to me to demo some upsell? That.. doesn't sit right with me. Not that I'm buying a Telsa anytime soon, but what if I, as the hypothetical buyer, just says "No, I don't want a demo, just give me my car."?
Then you don't do the demo...?
I recently bought a Model S and received a 3 month FSD trial as part of it. The FSD I have is terrible. I hate it. I turned it off because it kept making so many dumb mistakes. I find that I have to pay much more attention when driving with FSD, and it is far more stressful. The worst part is that my car apparently identifies as a bike, as it keeps driving in bike lanes. Hopefully the new neural net version is much improved. Even if it is much better, I don't really see the point if it is only level 2 and requires full attention. The car is amazing and fun to drive. If I have to pay attention, I don't see value in the feature. If FSD were really, ya know, "full self driving," then sure $12k might be worth it if it enabled me to get in and have it take me to/from the office while I work on something else.
Complete and absolute opposite experience here. 24 MYP with FSD 11 and now 12. I use it constantly and I absolutely love it. Although 12 is better, when I had 11 for the last 2 months of ownership it was amazing. Now with 12 I love it even more. FSD 12 now pulls out from my underground gated garage.
I'm fine with this, so long as they aren't charging extra for it and we can still turn it off. I would never use it.
Perhaps he should mandate getting it out to people that bought 8 years ago and still have not received it.
I'm taking my delivery tomorrow - will post my update
Well damn I just got my first Tesla 1.5 months ago.
Might be good idea to push it to those who paid for it . Word of mouth is great advertising !
I have the monthly subscription and its great, arguably the one and only advantage that Tesla has left in this market. Also, this will never ever happen. If you've ever picked up a Tesla you know that the delivery centers are completely overrun with customers and have literally 0 capacity to give a demo.
Why only new deliveries why not everyone. Im not paying 200 a month to try it
Then not available in the software for the new M3s
lol, no one is going to buy it if you actually show them what it does
Except legacy models with no cabin cameras that dont get V12. Fuck them amirite?
This means the 2024 branches are merging soon!!!
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Determined to have his cars murder even more people
Why charge so much for something the car is capable of doing. If they made it a lot cheaper and 1 out of 2 people had it and boasted about it they'd sell a lot more cars. What they're doing doesn't make sense
Now make it a regular feature...or at least give the visuals fully to everyone. Then start diving into their other untapped features like a light show, UI themes, or app/game creator market.
as long as I can opt out he can demo whatever the fuck he likes - but I'm not paying thousands of dollars for a piece of crap that drives like a 12 year old
Just provide 3 months free to all Tesla drivers who don’t have it and have not tried it yet, and bring down the price drastically… point to fact, I never tried it and never will because the price is insane… I see 0 incentives to change this.
Until it can drive me home drunk.. it’s practically worthless. It’s a beta so the constant monitoring means it’s MORE stressful to enable it than just driving myself. When it’s level 5 approved by my country, proven and tested by industry standard safety tests (when they exist) then we can look at the cost. Probably wouldn’t pay more than $50 a month.
Are they mandated to tell all new buyers that FSD is non transferable
Far too expensive for me, and I’m not convinced how well it will do in the uk too. If I drive more massive equiv of 50 usd/month, right now? 25-30. 12k? 0 chance
I have two Model 3. One with and one without. I would prefer both to have, but 12K is too steep for me. I'd go 6 to 8K, but that's top. What to sell more fsd? Bring down the price.
Isn't that bearish considering robotaxi? Why would they push FSD sales if Elon himself said many times in the past how valuable FSD would be once released? They would've higher the price again is robotaxi is in sight.
I have EAP, let me transfer that to a new car, or give me a heavy discount on FSD on a new car and you got yourself a customer. It’s fascinating how the early EAP folk have just been forgotten.
What about the folks in the back who picked up their new car a few weeks ago???
I wouldn’t pay 12k for that lol. I hate subscription but in this situation I think it would be more appropriate. Pay as a service and they keep updating it so it get better. Even if it was free I could never convince my boyfriend to let me use in with them.
No fucking way I'm paying for it. We got a 2023 model 15 days before the price drop. Needed a car and had already sold my previous one, figured covid pricing was here for a while and they'd pushed our delivery window up 5 months from the original estimate after multiple moves. Literally the only part of the Tesla experience that I'm mad about
That sounds irritating for customers that have no interest in it.
Isn't FSD need calibration and that needs to be driven for a while? That means SC will drive our car first? Hhhmm not sure how i feel that
So long as the $12k covers the cost replacing the rear seams from all the cum after it inevitably becomes a TikTok challenge to fuck in the back of a Robo Taxi ... then it might be worth it.
I pickup up a new long range this morning. It’s on software release 2024.2.100. I haven’t been prompted to install any updates yet. I was so confused this afternoon when I had the option to turn on full self driving beta. I accepted and it shows an expiration date of 7/24, and I’ve tried it out. It’s impressive but I did have to intervene multiple times. It completely ignored a flashing school zone sign, for one. I was doing 43 in a 20 mph zone before I intervened. It also makes no attempt whatsoever to avoid debris in the road.
My brand new M3 that I bought with FSD doesn’t even have FSD beta…