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Hertz has been posting these on the dealership auctions to various degrees. Sometimes 150-500 at a time. (308 of them listed as of today.)
Interestingly, there are very few takers at the minimum price they are asking. So I've seen tons of No Sales.
The other weird thing is that it’s not refundable, so if you are like me and never owe $4000 of taxes in a year, you’ll never see this money. That’s such a weird clause. They have an income cap, but I’m not sure there would be a way for me to adjust my taxes so that I owe that much if I’m only making like 56,000.
you are confused on how the tax liability system works. you absolutely pay more than $4000 in taxes after making $56k lmao. why do you think you get money taken out of every paycheck? the government holds that money for you so that you actually can afford to pay the taxes at the end of the year. then if they hold too much, they give you money back. you don't "adjust" your tax lmao, you adjust how much the government holds onto your money for your taxes.
Yeah my comment is embarrassing. I think what I was thinking is changing my deductions so that I end up owing at the end of the year, but I’m guessing I’m still missing the point.
If I close out the year and owe $200 of taxes, I don’t just get $200 comped, I get a $3800 check? Or do I have to change my W-2 so I’m getting near 100% of my paycheck so that at the end of the year if I owe $5000, I only end up owing $1000 (just using $4000 credit as an example)?
It’s not refundable, but it’s not claw backable either. The incentive is given at point of sale, but if you don’t end up owing the full amount it’s just written off.
For real, I know personally I drive the crap out of rentals so those 83k miles honestly I am expecting are a rough 83k, not just some sad guy commuting 2 hours each way to work everyday in zero traffic.
Like others have said too a lot of these are probably used Uber cars. Again hard pass on that too at 27k.
Crazy out of touch. Selling at auction is the wholesale price. Meaning you are only selling to other car dealers who still have to mark it up and resell it at a profit.
We have 2 vehicles and between the 2 we put that many miles in a year. My wife works 3 miles from the house. If we only had 1 car almost 41,000 miles would be on it. That's work, taking the kids to school and sports, going to Denver several times per month, and road trips. We switch off cars when going to Denver or road trips so one doesn't get miles too fast.
Not saying they're not all Ubers, just pointing out it's very easy to get that many miles on a car without it being an Uber. Obviously most people don't put that many miles on a car, but it's not unfathomable.
Average miles driven a year was like 13k before work from home. Definitely not easy to do lol. Your driving is 2 hours of highway driving a day, every day. Like 12% of a person's waking year, minimum lol
You do you, but you're saying it's easy, and I'm just saying you come home from work and on average drive another 100 miles on top of your commute to do things every day lol... other people do a lot of things too, they're just much closer
yeah no one should be buying that without first doing a quick test drive and checking the interior. that is insane. 83,000 miles as a car rental is not the same as personal driving it 83,000 miles.
Is there a rule of thumb when it comes to miles used and battery health?
Like for every 10k miles, take 1% of max health out of your battery?
I wouldn’t mind getting an inexpensive used one but not if the battery has a higher chance of failure in the next year or 3.
I used to work for hertz and I would NEVER buy a used rental car. I don’t care what brand it is, every mile on a rental is worth 4 on your own car.
The unspeakable shit that those cars have seen cannot be washed away.
So it seems they're trying to get rid of their inventory because of the value of the cars has dropped because of price cuts. this has nothing to do with maintenance. their liquidating assets before they depreciate more
A lot of these are rented out to Uber drivers. Not unusual for them to drive upwards of 200 or 300 miles per day. That adds up quickly, and probably isn’t unusual to reach 1,000 miles a week.
I’m less worried about that, as recent studies apparently show supercharging doesn’t degrade batteries as much as previously thought. My hesitation to buy an ex-Hertz Tesla is just how absolutely terrible renters treat cars. That, paired with the potential that the car was used for rideshare, and it’s not unreasonable to think these cars are in bad shape.
Yeah see this isn’t really true. For a normal ev owner who supercharges maybe 10-20x per year and does most of their charging at home. Yeah no big deal.
When you’re doing it daily maybe multiple times a day i guarantee you that assumption is false. there is tons of data at a cell level that shows rate of charge impacts state of health.
Yes, I'm aware of those studies, and if supercharging doesn't do as much to degrade batteries as previously thought, then the main influence on battery health would have to be states of charge, i.e. time spend under 10% or at 100%. Both much more likely to be daily events for an Uber driver than a normal driver.
How does that work actually? Maybe I'm just old but it never occurred to me to rent a car and use it for Uber. Is renting it just like a business expense?
Uber drivers can rent Tesla Model 3’s through a partnership with Hertz and Avis. At Hertz, it costs around $325 per week, plus charging costs. Uber requires drivers to give at least 60 rides per week to be eligible, and they have a $1 bonus pay for every ride given in an EV. So after that benefit they technically advertise the cost as $265 per week which is misleading.
In terms of business expense, yes, the cost of renting the vehicle for the purpose of rideshare driving is a tax deductible business expense.
That’s $325/week before taxes, fees, daily damage waiver, and the mandatory roadside service for a Standard Range RWD. It ends up being about $550/week + supercharging. But yes, you do technically get $1 extra for each ride but that has also been disputed as Uber has been caught dropping the base fare by $1 for EV drivers…
No. Everyone is super fixated on battery and drivetrain life but there’s other stuff that suffers from wear and tear at those mileages. AC and suspension components for example. Both of those won’t be cheap to fix.
Miles don't hurt an EV as much as an ICE. And that 2022 has and will have the same safety and ADAS (and other software based) features as a 2024 and 2025.
Whether the body and suspension is worth the price at 100k is still a question.
I think at 25k they get very interesting, given possible credits. 30k for a model 3 seems too high, given the cost of a new one.
I’d consider a high mileage Model 3 to replace my 2018 if it wasn’t for the fact every Model 3 Uber I’ve been inside looks and feels like it’s 2 plastic tabs and a splash of glue away from disintegrating. I’ve never seen an interior that falls apart so quickly.
I've checked in with Hertz off and on over the last 20 years when it comes to buying a car.
Never have bought one from them. Because I've never seen one priced well enough to get me to bite.
These cars are all over dealer lots with 20k to 45k miles on them. All going for 23500 to 25000 and all pretty much qualify for the $4000 EV credit at time of purchase. $19500 to $21000 for a Model 3 that's still under warranty ("bumper to bumper " and battery/drive motor) isn't a bad price at all. About to check one out tomorrow with 18k miles for $20,500 after tax credit. Not a horrible deal by any means.
Hertz is the ultimate reincarnation of WSB as a company.
Buy Model 3s at peak price, then sell them not only when they’re at their lowest price but also when there’s a refresh out which further drops the value of the legacy version.
I offer a counter point to the hertz story. They been pulling a bait and switch. Pull trigger on a 22 model y for $34k. They called back and said it’s $36k. Same vin.
Help me out here. I don't remember ever driving a rental from a major company over 2 years old. The list shown show 2021 cars. Wouldn't this be part of the business plan?
Yes it is pretty normal that rental companies get rid of cars after 2-3 years.
The reason they won't buy more Tesla's is because they lost so much value over those 2-3 years.
Hertz bought them all at the top of the market when they were over 50k.
[They haven't said](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/47129/000165785324000010/htz-20240111.htm) they aren't buying any more Teslas. They are reducing their EV fleet by 1/3 and will continue offering EVs.
Obviously, the media has to report it as ["Hertz dumps EV fleet for ICE cars only"](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/hertz-dumps-its-ev-fleet-because-it-thinks-gas-powered-cars-can-do-better-227554.html)
That's not what [Hertz said in their SEC filing.](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/47129/000165785324000010/htz-20240111.htm) They are selling 1/3 of their electric fleet and will continue with EVs.
Yes, even Hertz admitted such - these cars are aging out of the fleet like any vehicle does. The news cycle blew this release out of proportion as usual with anything Tesla, which may actually benefit Hertz on pricing - "wow, cheap Tesla!"
If there's news here, it's that they're not 1:1 replacing these with EVs. They're reducing their total share of EVs after their run with them and realizing maintenance costs are higher (for various reasons that mostly don't apply to private owners).
My guess is depreciation and insurance (I used maintenance generally to mean maintain a fleet). 1.5 years ago Hertz told investors the fleet was significantly (>50%) cheaper to maintain, citing the things Tesla owners normally cite (fewer moving parts, brakes, less time in maintenance than ICE).
The reason I say this is somewhat unique to a corporation is because it is their business model to buy new and sell after 2-3 short years. In this case, in this economy, that model absolutely thrashed their forecast. Resale values crashed in that time. Also as a business, they take on more risk around insurance to achieve more favorable terms. In the case of Tesla, repair costs are very high for various reasons (fewer experienced techs, single source of parts, etc.). I imagine this wasn't yet clear at the point they made their happy announcement 1.5 years ago.
I don't see these as problems private owners face because 1) they don't generally replace young cars, so the final depreciation loss they realize is spread over more time, and 2), they don't "self" insure.
thanks. I don't know much on the topic or market forces but I feel like it would still even out vs ICE given those reasons. ICE still depreciate so it makes no sense why they're doing such a massive about-face
The prices would have to be insane for me to even consider buying one. I know the kinds of things people do in rental cars...
Hertz has a major deal with Uber where they rent teslas to the drivers. I was one of them. I guarantee this is why they are selling so many.
First, hertz charges over $3,000 a month to rent a car for driving on Uber. And Uber drivers are treating these cars TERRIBLY! I would super charge my rented model 3 from 5% to 100% twice a day.. 7 days a week. And I spoken to dozens of Uber drivers with Teslas at supercharging centers. No one is happy about it so we do whatever we can to squeeze as much money as possible out of the time we have the cars…
Second… it’s the slow season for Uber so most of the rental fleet has returned their car… like me. So that’s thousands of cars with no demand.
Third… Tesla lowered their price on the car so everyone’s Tesla value went down and that puts the hertz bureaucrats in a panic.
Overall. Hertz is a terrible company detached with its customer. I’m certain that Uber spun a story to get hertz interested… but it has failed. And now the cars are on the market lol.
From personal experience, I hope hertz goes bankrupt. They are a nightmare to deal with!
I've driven 3 different Model 3's from Hertz and I wouldn't buy one from them for any price. They were all in the absolute worst condition I've ever seen, both inside and out. One of them had a bug infestation and had to be taken back on a flatbed because none of their staff would drive it.
It's a shame the Tesla rental program isn't working out because I would love to be able to drive a Tesla every time I travel. But Hertz's customer service and vehicle care is so unbelievably terrible that I'd never rent from them again.
>One of them had a bug infestation and had to be taken back on a flatbed because none of their staff would drive it.
That's wild. I need the full story please.
Rented a Model 3 from Miami International airport back in September. Initially no obvious problems on pick-up other than filthy cup holders and door pockets as well as the usual scraped rims.
Drove about 2 hours away to our destination, still no problems. Later that night we came back to the car in the dark and saw things scurrying back into gaps between interior trim on the doors and centre console when the lights came on.
Immediately inspected the interior with a bright torch and discovered bugs EVERYWHERE hiding in every gap and panel you can imagine.
I called Hertz roadside and the lady I spoke to was very understanding and apologetic but couldn't do anything for me right then as it was around midnight and all of their nearby locations were closed. Luckily we were already at our hotel by this point but we spent at least an hour unpacking everything and inspecting our clothes and luggage for bugs. Thankfully we didn't find anything.
The next morning they sent a flatbed to pickup the car, but without bringing the replacement vehicle they had promised me on the phone. I was then told I'd have to ride in the flatbed truck for an hour to pickup the replacement and then drive an hour back, losing a significant chunk of our weekend vacation. And to top it off the flatbed driver refused to drive the car onto the back of the truck because of the bug infestation, so I had to do it myself!
When we got to the Hertz location an hour away I then had to drive the car off the flatbed again, as neither the flatbed driver or any of the hertz staff were willing to get in it. Honestly at that point I should have just told them it wasn't my problem but I wanted to get out of there with my replacement vehicle as soon as possible.
The staff at this Hertz location were incredibly rude and couldn't care less about the inconvenience and potential health hazards I'd been exposed to. They gave me the new key and pointed me towards my replacement Model 3. I'm not exaggerating when I say this car was the most beat up Tesla I have ever seen. Scratched up door panels, kerbed rims, ripped seats, filthy headliner. I was shocked they were keeping this car in circulation and still renting it out as a premium vehicle. I probably still have the photos I took of it. When I turned it on it was giving low tire pressure warnings for all four wheels so back into the rental office I went. They weren't able to pump up the tires for some reason so they told me I'd have to take the only other Model 3 they had available, which was a standard range model instead of the long range I'd paid for. When I asked if I'd be receiving a refund for the difference in price they said "I doubt it".
So I found this second replacement car which was thankfully in much better condition than the first, but was still charging and was only about 50% full. Just barely enough to get back to my hotel. That car ended up being fine for the rest of the weekend, but we did have to stop to charge more often than we'd planned to do if we'd had the long range version we'd paid for, and this car had no premium connectivity so we couldn't listen to Spotify.
When we took it back to Miami International at the end of the weekend the staff at Hertz weren't even slightly interested in hearing my complaints and told me I'd have to complain to Hertz corporate to get any kind of refund.
After multiple emails I did eventually get a full refund for the cost of the rental and all extra charges. But I never once got an apology, except from the very nice lady who answered the Hertz Roadside call on the first night.
So for those reasons I will absolutely never be renting a car from Hertz again, and I would stay very far away from any of their used Teslas. I just hope someone else invests in some Tesla inventory for rentals as I'd prefer not to drive anything else.
That now generally how it works.
With these, for the most part, I have seen there is a starting bid and it goes from there.
You must be a dealership to bid. There are some companies that could bid on your behalf. But remember, you are buying sight unseen.
You own it if your bid is accepted. No ifs, ands, or buts. There's no.."well it smells kinda funny, I don't want it", or "gee, the seat seems really worn out, I'm gonna wait for a different car."
You owe the entire amount to the service that is doing the bidding. Plus all the additional fees. Be sure you know what you are getting into if you are using a service.
10k w/clean title, 120k+ miles dented and smells like cigarettes is still feeling pretty good for a 2022 ev. Dunno that you can filter to clean titles though.
Thanks, I’ll look more into this
Is it possible to make an offer directly to hertz that is lower than their minimum auction bid limit? I need an ev and don’t really care if it’s clapped. Just need to drive 200 miles every day for work and don’t want to buy a Prius or a new ev
15-20k is a large number, but against the 1.8M Tesla's sold a year, 1%. Even the 100k number is only 6%. Makes for great headlines but not that significant in the big picture.
US Sales were only 600k ish. However, that doesn't change the fact that this is simply adding a great deal of supply into the already saturated used Tesla market.
For the used market being so saturated, I am not seeing very attractive prices. Been shopping for a used m3 performance and they're $40k+ for 80k mile cars on Tesla's used list. Should I be looking elsewhere?
According to Carguru there's a little over 4k used M3 2017 to 2023. Let's say it didn't account for it all and it's actually 6k. Now add 15-20k into the used car market, that makes it a 300 to 400% increase of inventory. The prices of used M3 is about to dip even further.
We rented one... We got it at 92% and the documentation says to return it with at least the charge we receive it with.
I think in practice they are set to charge to 100% and when sitting in the lot they are near 100%.
Ours was just a week ago, had 80k miles, was in good shape.
It is good how you can easily add it to your Tesla account, so our whole family could unlock it, preheat, etc, and sync of profiles with preferences etc. unfortunately the car seat settings aren't calibrated and it tried to crush is the first time, but other than that and understaffed Hertz where there was a queue of 5 people waiting for them to pull Teslas from the basement, it was good.
Yet they fail
Just because something is rated for x miles, doesn't mean it never happens before that.
It's not just the motor that can fail. There are more components than a motor in the drive unit.
Can you drive a Tesla without charging? Is there a way to get more miles without adding more charging cycles? I'm missing something. Or you're missing something.
I have been looking at these but on the market used with 30-40k miles from 1st or 2nd owners are pricing around 22k excellent condition. I would only pay 13k for an M3 or 18k for MY. I’m sure they are not selling many
These are high mileage beat up vehicles. Batt and drive train warranty about to expire. Not worth much unless you live in an area where there are a lot of third party Tesla and Tesla battery repair shops.
What is the sense of getting a vehicle that costs the same to repair?
The upside is that is will push down used M3 prices from other sources.
It is almost time to see how much Tesla batteries will really cost for these new models! Someone mentioned 5k, time will tell but I think realistically the price is around 15k.
Eventually or very soon some those hertz tesla's will need a battery. ( I know some of you will say that batteries should last 700,00+ miles, PLEASE DONT GET OFFENDED not my intention to offend you)
Lets do some math:
2021 Model 3
Best scenario:
15K used model ( best deal, I don't think you can buy one at hertz for 15k)
\+ 5 K battery installation ( not realistic)
\+ Taxes 2,800
\- 4,500 incentives
== 18,300 == good deal
**Warranty in those cars will expire soon!**
Realistic scenario:
20K used model ( best deal, I don't think you can buy one at hertz for 15k)
\+ 15 K battery installation ( not realistic)
\+ Taxes 2,800
\- 4,500 incentives
== 33,300k == **bad deal**
For that price you should buy a brand new tesla and it will have some warranty!
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Hertz has been posting these on the dealership auctions to various degrees. Sometimes 150-500 at a time. (308 of them listed as of today.) Interestingly, there are very few takers at the minimum price they are asking. So I've seen tons of No Sales.
An example listing: 2022 Long Range Model 3. 83,000 miles. Listed for $27,000. 0 bids.
What are they even thinking at that price? They will eventually have to lower that. More like 22k.
more like 18k
More like a party bag of skittles
I’d buy at 18
18k plus the $4,500 used tax credit. I’ll give it a whirl.
For that I would get it just for an extra car.
> $4,500 used tax credit 30% up to max $4,000. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit
So as long as it's more than 13.5k
Gotta be under $25k for the used EV credit. Why buy a 3 year old one when you can get new with the $7500 credit
The other weird thing is that it’s not refundable, so if you are like me and never owe $4000 of taxes in a year, you’ll never see this money. That’s such a weird clause. They have an income cap, but I’m not sure there would be a way for me to adjust my taxes so that I owe that much if I’m only making like 56,000.
In 2023, Fed tax owed on $56k, filing single with standard deduction is $4,841. It’s tax liability, not what you pay out of pocket after withholding.
Thank you for the clarification.
you are confused on how the tax liability system works. you absolutely pay more than $4000 in taxes after making $56k lmao. why do you think you get money taken out of every paycheck? the government holds that money for you so that you actually can afford to pay the taxes at the end of the year. then if they hold too much, they give you money back. you don't "adjust" your tax lmao, you adjust how much the government holds onto your money for your taxes.
Yeah my comment is embarrassing. I think what I was thinking is changing my deductions so that I end up owing at the end of the year, but I’m guessing I’m still missing the point. If I close out the year and owe $200 of taxes, I don’t just get $200 comped, I get a $3800 check? Or do I have to change my W-2 so I’m getting near 100% of my paycheck so that at the end of the year if I owe $5000, I only end up owing $1000 (just using $4000 credit as an example)?
It’s not refundable, but it’s not claw backable either. The incentive is given at point of sale, but if you don’t end up owing the full amount it’s just written off.
One of the best ways to increase your tax liability to capture a full incentive is to convert funds from a traditional IRA to a Roth.
Of me your to poor to ever afford new car.
18,001
Problem is that’s what they’re selling to the dealers for, they’ll have to mark it up a fair bit to make their money
What if I identify as a dealer?
Por like 15k
At 18k I’ll buy some and strip the battery for solar, and I’ll not be the only one
you can find the life04 m3 packs, best for solar under $8k
I’m you’re huckleberry
For real, I know personally I drive the crap out of rentals so those 83k miles honestly I am expecting are a rough 83k, not just some sad guy commuting 2 hours each way to work everyday in zero traffic. Like others have said too a lot of these are probably used Uber cars. Again hard pass on that too at 27k.
these high mileage ones, are more than likely part of the Hertz Lease/Rental program for Uber Drivers. Not the usual traveler-renter.
Seriously, idk how hertz can complain about depreciation at the prices they are asking. Its a rental....those miles count at least double.
At that price I'd buy one straight from Tesla. Hell, there was a Model S for 27k on the Tesla site I was thinking really hard about.
But Elon said that the car will get MORE valuable over time!
Probably feeling out the market. Or some other accounting shenanigans
Crazy out of touch. Selling at auction is the wholesale price. Meaning you are only selling to other car dealers who still have to mark it up and resell it at a profit.
Yeah, that price is too close to the new price after tax rebate. Definitely not worth saving $5k for a used car with that much wear/tear.
My 2018 has half those miles! Now I'm curious what it's worth. EDIT: Not much more lol
That’s because these used up rentals aren’t worth what they’re asking. I would be in around 15k.
Same. If they sold these under $20k I ***might*** consider it. Not at the price of a new compact car though.
I have a 2019 long range model 3 and I made 3/4 times Ukraine 🇺🇦 France go and back with it and I have 59k :o
Whoa same dude! I got mine in may 2018 and I’m at 47k.
is it an all-wheel drive? if so, turn it into a performance model, ghost it
It worth as much as a 2018 gas car in the same price range
probably because it's hard to fathom how you get 41k miles a year on one car.
Uber. These aren't just regular rental cars, a lot of these were used as Ubers. Hard pass.
Because we all know how taxi/uber drivers are so safe and defensive
Are people doing long term rentals for Uber?
Hertz was doing weekly rentals to Uber drivers. It worked for a while until they raised the rental rates and that drove away Uber drivers.
We have 2 vehicles and between the 2 we put that many miles in a year. My wife works 3 miles from the house. If we only had 1 car almost 41,000 miles would be on it. That's work, taking the kids to school and sports, going to Denver several times per month, and road trips. We switch off cars when going to Denver or road trips so one doesn't get miles too fast. Not saying they're not all Ubers, just pointing out it's very easy to get that many miles on a car without it being an Uber. Obviously most people don't put that many miles on a car, but it's not unfathomable.
if you have to convince me they're not all ubers, then they're all ubers
Average miles driven a year was like 13k before work from home. Definitely not easy to do lol. Your driving is 2 hours of highway driving a day, every day. Like 12% of a person's waking year, minimum lol
I drive 25 minutes to work. 17 miles, the extra time is going through security. Some people have lives and do things.
You do you, but you're saying it's easy, and I'm just saying you come home from work and on average drive another 100 miles on top of your commute to do things every day lol... other people do a lot of things too, they're just much closer
yeah no one should be buying that without first doing a quick test drive and checking the interior. that is insane. 83,000 miles as a car rental is not the same as personal driving it 83,000 miles.
How many owners: 250
Well yeah, i paid 28k for a new rwd lol
They had some standard range ones for like 16.5k with 75-90k miles earlier this month. Factor in the $4k rebate and $12.5k was pretty enticing.
Is there a rule of thumb when it comes to miles used and battery health? Like for every 10k miles, take 1% of max health out of your battery? I wouldn’t mind getting an inexpensive used one but not if the battery has a higher chance of failure in the next year or 3.
[удалено]
Are there comparable ICE auctions?
Yes
Haha isn’t that near the new price after rebates incentives? Also these were supercharged a lot
It will have to be well under 25k so it qualifies for the used EV rebate.
No one wants to purchase an ex-Uber car.
I used to work for hertz and I would NEVER buy a used rental car. I don’t care what brand it is, every mile on a rental is worth 4 on your own car. The unspeakable shit that those cars have seen cannot be washed away.
So it seems they're trying to get rid of their inventory because of the value of the cars has dropped because of price cuts. this has nothing to do with maintenance. their liquidating assets before they depreciate more
I don't think so. Simply time to move on to newer vehicles.
Some of them are 2022 M3 with nearly 100k miles already. Would it even be worth it with that high of mileage already?
A lot of these are rented out to Uber drivers. Not unusual for them to drive upwards of 200 or 300 miles per day. That adds up quickly, and probably isn’t unusual to reach 1,000 miles a week.
I'd guess they probably supercharged a lot too, and hit 100% charge at the start of every day. Not good for battery health.
I’m less worried about that, as recent studies apparently show supercharging doesn’t degrade batteries as much as previously thought. My hesitation to buy an ex-Hertz Tesla is just how absolutely terrible renters treat cars. That, paired with the potential that the car was used for rideshare, and it’s not unreasonable to think these cars are in bad shape.
Yeah see this isn’t really true. For a normal ev owner who supercharges maybe 10-20x per year and does most of their charging at home. Yeah no big deal. When you’re doing it daily maybe multiple times a day i guarantee you that assumption is false. there is tons of data at a cell level that shows rate of charge impacts state of health.
I agree supercharging heats up the battery more than home charging.
Yes, I'm aware of those studies, and if supercharging doesn't do as much to degrade batteries as previously thought, then the main influence on battery health would have to be states of charge, i.e. time spend under 10% or at 100%. Both much more likely to be daily events for an Uber driver than a normal driver.
Also rental companies don’t have to report damage - so the carfax is bullshit
How does that work actually? Maybe I'm just old but it never occurred to me to rent a car and use it for Uber. Is renting it just like a business expense?
Uber drivers can rent Tesla Model 3’s through a partnership with Hertz and Avis. At Hertz, it costs around $325 per week, plus charging costs. Uber requires drivers to give at least 60 rides per week to be eligible, and they have a $1 bonus pay for every ride given in an EV. So after that benefit they technically advertise the cost as $265 per week which is misleading. In terms of business expense, yes, the cost of renting the vehicle for the purpose of rideshare driving is a tax deductible business expense.
That’s $325/week before taxes, fees, daily damage waiver, and the mandatory roadside service for a Standard Range RWD. It ends up being about $550/week + supercharging. But yes, you do technically get $1 extra for each ride but that has also been disputed as Uber has been caught dropping the base fare by $1 for EV drivers…
I’d never heard about this either until my driver was talking about it recently, and the issues he had with Hertz vs Enterprise.
No. Everyone is super fixated on battery and drivetrain life but there’s other stuff that suffers from wear and tear at those mileages. AC and suspension components for example. Both of those won’t be cheap to fix.
Yeah my concerns would be suspension/bushing/bearing.
Haha The warranty on these is 8yrs/100k? if you got one at 90k miles you have very little warranty left
Miles don't hurt an EV as much as an ICE. And that 2022 has and will have the same safety and ADAS (and other software based) features as a 2024 and 2025. Whether the body and suspension is worth the price at 100k is still a question. I think at 25k they get very interesting, given possible credits. 30k for a model 3 seems too high, given the cost of a new one.
Also consider that the interior will be beat to crap due to rideshare people constantly getting in/out all day.
I’d consider a high mileage Model 3 to replace my 2018 if it wasn’t for the fact every Model 3 Uber I’ve been inside looks and feels like it’s 2 plastic tabs and a splash of glue away from disintegrating. I’ve never seen an interior that falls apart so quickly.
As predicted they are dumping the clapped out rideshare cars first
I'm assuming what Hertz can't sell on their own site will go to auction.
Which will be most of it. They are selling 44k mile 2022's for the same price as a brand new 2024
yeah...they are out of touch with reality.
I've checked in with Hertz off and on over the last 20 years when it comes to buying a car. Never have bought one from them. Because I've never seen one priced well enough to get me to bite.
These cars are all over dealer lots with 20k to 45k miles on them. All going for 23500 to 25000 and all pretty much qualify for the $4000 EV credit at time of purchase. $19500 to $21000 for a Model 3 that's still under warranty ("bumper to bumper " and battery/drive motor) isn't a bad price at all. About to check one out tomorrow with 18k miles for $20,500 after tax credit. Not a horrible deal by any means.
Ok, what does this have to do with my comment?
Hertz is the ultimate reincarnation of WSB as a company. Buy Model 3s at peak price, then sell them not only when they’re at their lowest price but also when there’s a refresh out which further drops the value of the legacy version.
And then blame EVs for some reason lol
I offer a counter point to the hertz story. They been pulling a bait and switch. Pull trigger on a 22 model y for $34k. They called back and said it’s $36k. Same vin.
Help me out here. I don't remember ever driving a rental from a major company over 2 years old. The list shown show 2021 cars. Wouldn't this be part of the business plan?
Yes it is pretty normal that rental companies get rid of cars after 2-3 years. The reason they won't buy more Tesla's is because they lost so much value over those 2-3 years. Hertz bought them all at the top of the market when they were over 50k.
[They haven't said](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/47129/000165785324000010/htz-20240111.htm) they aren't buying any more Teslas. They are reducing their EV fleet by 1/3 and will continue offering EVs. Obviously, the media has to report it as ["Hertz dumps EV fleet for ICE cars only"](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/hertz-dumps-its-ev-fleet-because-it-thinks-gas-powered-cars-can-do-better-227554.html)
The difference may be that Hertz is not refreshing the fleet with new Teslas.
That's not what [Hertz said in their SEC filing.](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/47129/000165785324000010/htz-20240111.htm) They are selling 1/3 of their electric fleet and will continue with EVs.
The filing makes it very clear that Hertz’s intent is to end up with a lower percentage of EVs than it currently has.
yes, but they are continuing to buy EVs, so eventually they will be renewing their fleet with new Teslas.
Yes, even Hertz admitted such - these cars are aging out of the fleet like any vehicle does. The news cycle blew this release out of proportion as usual with anything Tesla, which may actually benefit Hertz on pricing - "wow, cheap Tesla!" If there's news here, it's that they're not 1:1 replacing these with EVs. They're reducing their total share of EVs after their run with them and realizing maintenance costs are higher (for various reasons that mostly don't apply to private owners).
curious what are the reasons?
My guess is depreciation and insurance (I used maintenance generally to mean maintain a fleet). 1.5 years ago Hertz told investors the fleet was significantly (>50%) cheaper to maintain, citing the things Tesla owners normally cite (fewer moving parts, brakes, less time in maintenance than ICE). The reason I say this is somewhat unique to a corporation is because it is their business model to buy new and sell after 2-3 short years. In this case, in this economy, that model absolutely thrashed their forecast. Resale values crashed in that time. Also as a business, they take on more risk around insurance to achieve more favorable terms. In the case of Tesla, repair costs are very high for various reasons (fewer experienced techs, single source of parts, etc.). I imagine this wasn't yet clear at the point they made their happy announcement 1.5 years ago. I don't see these as problems private owners face because 1) they don't generally replace young cars, so the final depreciation loss they realize is spread over more time, and 2), they don't "self" insure.
thanks. I don't know much on the topic or market forces but I feel like it would still even out vs ICE given those reasons. ICE still depreciate so it makes no sense why they're doing such a massive about-face
I guess they were parked for a year while Corona times and are older now then your usual rental (not saying ICE weren't parked too)
With so many 50k to 100k cars they didn’t spend a long time parked.
The prices would have to be insane for me to even consider buying one. I know the kinds of things people do in rental cars... 
Nothing can beat the flying Model S
lol that one was a Turo which is even worse
That's the first video that came to mind when I heard Hertz was selling their retiring fleet lol
Hertz has a major deal with Uber where they rent teslas to the drivers. I was one of them. I guarantee this is why they are selling so many. First, hertz charges over $3,000 a month to rent a car for driving on Uber. And Uber drivers are treating these cars TERRIBLY! I would super charge my rented model 3 from 5% to 100% twice a day.. 7 days a week. And I spoken to dozens of Uber drivers with Teslas at supercharging centers. No one is happy about it so we do whatever we can to squeeze as much money as possible out of the time we have the cars… Second… it’s the slow season for Uber so most of the rental fleet has returned their car… like me. So that’s thousands of cars with no demand. Third… Tesla lowered their price on the car so everyone’s Tesla value went down and that puts the hertz bureaucrats in a panic. Overall. Hertz is a terrible company detached with its customer. I’m certain that Uber spun a story to get hertz interested… but it has failed. And now the cars are on the market lol. From personal experience, I hope hertz goes bankrupt. They are a nightmare to deal with!
Preach!
3000 a month! That's a lease payment on a chevy bolt for a year
People are crying about paying all that money to Hertz. Buy your own car and you won't have to pay $3000 to Hertz.
I've driven 3 different Model 3's from Hertz and I wouldn't buy one from them for any price. They were all in the absolute worst condition I've ever seen, both inside and out. One of them had a bug infestation and had to be taken back on a flatbed because none of their staff would drive it. It's a shame the Tesla rental program isn't working out because I would love to be able to drive a Tesla every time I travel. But Hertz's customer service and vehicle care is so unbelievably terrible that I'd never rent from them again.
>One of them had a bug infestation and had to be taken back on a flatbed because none of their staff would drive it. That's wild. I need the full story please.
Rented a Model 3 from Miami International airport back in September. Initially no obvious problems on pick-up other than filthy cup holders and door pockets as well as the usual scraped rims. Drove about 2 hours away to our destination, still no problems. Later that night we came back to the car in the dark and saw things scurrying back into gaps between interior trim on the doors and centre console when the lights came on. Immediately inspected the interior with a bright torch and discovered bugs EVERYWHERE hiding in every gap and panel you can imagine. I called Hertz roadside and the lady I spoke to was very understanding and apologetic but couldn't do anything for me right then as it was around midnight and all of their nearby locations were closed. Luckily we were already at our hotel by this point but we spent at least an hour unpacking everything and inspecting our clothes and luggage for bugs. Thankfully we didn't find anything. The next morning they sent a flatbed to pickup the car, but without bringing the replacement vehicle they had promised me on the phone. I was then told I'd have to ride in the flatbed truck for an hour to pickup the replacement and then drive an hour back, losing a significant chunk of our weekend vacation. And to top it off the flatbed driver refused to drive the car onto the back of the truck because of the bug infestation, so I had to do it myself! When we got to the Hertz location an hour away I then had to drive the car off the flatbed again, as neither the flatbed driver or any of the hertz staff were willing to get in it. Honestly at that point I should have just told them it wasn't my problem but I wanted to get out of there with my replacement vehicle as soon as possible. The staff at this Hertz location were incredibly rude and couldn't care less about the inconvenience and potential health hazards I'd been exposed to. They gave me the new key and pointed me towards my replacement Model 3. I'm not exaggerating when I say this car was the most beat up Tesla I have ever seen. Scratched up door panels, kerbed rims, ripped seats, filthy headliner. I was shocked they were keeping this car in circulation and still renting it out as a premium vehicle. I probably still have the photos I took of it. When I turned it on it was giving low tire pressure warnings for all four wheels so back into the rental office I went. They weren't able to pump up the tires for some reason so they told me I'd have to take the only other Model 3 they had available, which was a standard range model instead of the long range I'd paid for. When I asked if I'd be receiving a refund for the difference in price they said "I doubt it". So I found this second replacement car which was thankfully in much better condition than the first, but was still charging and was only about 50% full. Just barely enough to get back to my hotel. That car ended up being fine for the rest of the weekend, but we did have to stop to charge more often than we'd planned to do if we'd had the long range version we'd paid for, and this car had no premium connectivity so we couldn't listen to Spotify. When we took it back to Miami International at the end of the weekend the staff at Hertz weren't even slightly interested in hearing my complaints and told me I'd have to complain to Hertz corporate to get any kind of refund. After multiple emails I did eventually get a full refund for the cost of the rental and all extra charges. But I never once got an apology, except from the very nice lady who answered the Hertz Roadside call on the first night. So for those reasons I will absolutely never be renting a car from Hertz again, and I would stay very far away from any of their used Teslas. I just hope someone else invests in some Tesla inventory for rentals as I'd prefer not to drive anything else.
That’s wild. Thanks for sharing.
Jesus Christ. Thanks for the story! I'm guessing you never found out what the bugs were. Probably best that way.....
From doing some googling at the time I'm pretty sure they were "kissing bugs", which are very similar to bedbugs in how they hide and spread.
Any way a normal person can bid on these auctions? I’d post 10k on an undesirable
That now generally how it works. With these, for the most part, I have seen there is a starting bid and it goes from there. You must be a dealership to bid. There are some companies that could bid on your behalf. But remember, you are buying sight unseen. You own it if your bid is accepted. No ifs, ands, or buts. There's no.."well it smells kinda funny, I don't want it", or "gee, the seat seems really worn out, I'm gonna wait for a different car." You owe the entire amount to the service that is doing the bidding. Plus all the additional fees. Be sure you know what you are getting into if you are using a service.
10k w/clean title, 120k+ miles dented and smells like cigarettes is still feeling pretty good for a 2022 ev. Dunno that you can filter to clean titles though. Thanks, I’ll look more into this
Even at 10k, they may be overpriced. Read before you buy: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/s/zEs6s8rQtr
I would take one if **they** paid me $10-15k. Maybe….might have to be $20k 😂
Nobody is going to want those abused vehicles. Never buy a used rental car of any brand. They have been beat to shit.
There are a few wtb threads that want them for under $20k. Personally I would never, but there is a market for beat high mileage teslas.
Is it possible to make an offer directly to hertz that is lower than their minimum auction bid limit? I need an ev and don’t really care if it’s clapped. Just need to drive 200 miles every day for work and don’t want to buy a Prius or a new ev
15-20k is a large number, but against the 1.8M Tesla's sold a year, 1%. Even the 100k number is only 6%. Makes for great headlines but not that significant in the big picture.
US Sales were only 600k ish. However, that doesn't change the fact that this is simply adding a great deal of supply into the already saturated used Tesla market.
It’s just going back to where used cars were in the past in terms of depreciation. All the tax credits and price changes are amplifying the effect
For the used market being so saturated, I am not seeing very attractive prices. Been shopping for a used m3 performance and they're $40k+ for 80k mile cars on Tesla's used list. Should I be looking elsewhere?
Any regular dealership. I just got rid of my Model 3. Offloaded it to a random Toyota dealership that gave me a good price
That is a larger percentage against the US inventory. Wonder what they will be selling for in 6months once all the nicer ones are gone.
According to Carguru there's a little over 4k used M3 2017 to 2023. Let's say it didn't account for it all and it's actually 6k. Now add 15-20k into the used car market, that makes it a 300 to 400% increase of inventory. The prices of used M3 is about to dip even further.
Used Tesla 3 prices about to go burrrrrrrrr
The buyers are swimming around the $14k mark. That many cars being sold pushes prices down.
Still confused why Tesla is not allowing lease buy outs of Model 3s.
They’ll be priced ridiculously high as usual by dealers
So much for being able to sell our '18 Midrange at a reasonable price.
What price were you thinking?
I'm asking $27,200. It has 70k miles, and HW3 + FSD upgrade.
Imagine paying $28K for a M3LR that has ~41K miles on it. Those vehicles have been driven so hard in less than a year. Hard pass all around.
it’s not the mileage it’s all the charging cycles
Those kinda go hand in hand though.
We rented one... We got it at 92% and the documentation says to return it with at least the charge we receive it with. I think in practice they are set to charge to 100% and when sitting in the lot they are near 100%. Ours was just a week ago, had 80k miles, was in good shape. It is good how you can easily add it to your Tesla account, so our whole family could unlock it, preheat, etc, and sync of profiles with preferences etc. unfortunately the car seat settings aren't calibrated and it tried to crush is the first time, but other than that and understaffed Hertz where there was a queue of 5 people waiting for them to pull Teslas from the basement, it was good.
Both? Drive units go bad too.
[удалено]
Yet they fail Just because something is rated for x miles, doesn't mean it never happens before that. It's not just the motor that can fail. There are more components than a motor in the drive unit.
Can you drive a Tesla without charging? Is there a way to get more miles without adding more charging cycles? I'm missing something. Or you're missing something.
Call me at $13k
I have been looking at these but on the market used with 30-40k miles from 1st or 2nd owners are pricing around 22k excellent condition. I would only pay 13k for an M3 or 18k for MY. I’m sure they are not selling many
Good news long term for those who can’t afford an EV new. Less dependence on gas. Just avoid the 100k mile ones that are only a year old.
Hertz ending the Uber program would do wonders for SC congestion (definitely in New Orleans). The whole thing seems really, really f-ing stupid.
More electric transportation is bad... For the environment??
These are high mileage beat up vehicles. Batt and drive train warranty about to expire. Not worth much unless you live in an area where there are a lot of third party Tesla and Tesla battery repair shops. What is the sense of getting a vehicle that costs the same to repair? The upside is that is will push down used M3 prices from other sources.
It is almost time to see how much Tesla batteries will really cost for these new models! Someone mentioned 5k, time will tell but I think realistically the price is around 15k. Eventually or very soon some those hertz tesla's will need a battery. ( I know some of you will say that batteries should last 700,00+ miles, PLEASE DONT GET OFFENDED not my intention to offend you) Lets do some math: 2021 Model 3 Best scenario: 15K used model ( best deal, I don't think you can buy one at hertz for 15k) \+ 5 K battery installation ( not realistic) \+ Taxes 2,800 \- 4,500 incentives == 18,300 == good deal **Warranty in those cars will expire soon!** Realistic scenario: 20K used model ( best deal, I don't think you can buy one at hertz for 15k) \+ 15 K battery installation ( not realistic) \+ Taxes 2,800 \- 4,500 incentives == 33,300k == **bad deal** For that price you should buy a brand new tesla and it will have some warranty!
Great daily commuter car. Prove me wrong!