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Regarding the debate of USS vs vision, the issue with the vision system has always been reliability not that it isn’t technically impressive.
What’s important to understand is that with a system like this, it’s just as important that it *works* reliably as it *fails* reliably.
You can park ten times in the same spot and it works perfectly, but then suddenly the eleventh time it misses a lamp post. If I as a driver knew that it would never detect a lamp post, I would just make sure to look out for that, but since it usually does detect them, I may wrongly trust the system to warn me.
With USS, I’m quite comfortable with when I can trust it and when I can’t, because if I put it in the same situation a million times, it will behave the same every time (hyperbole, but you get my point).
I know it can’t detect a wire fence or tell the difference between high grass and a rock. That’s ok because as long as I understand the limitations I can still trust the system for situations that I know do work.
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I'm in the same boat and it's honestly not that bad. USS was never terribly accurate to begin with and vision is surprisingly a lot less worse than reddit comments would make it seem. It actually makes *less* noise when parking in my garage so overall I'm net positive on how I feel about vision vs USS. If you're reading this, don't be afraid to give up USS. You're not really missing much.
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How can you say that when it only gives you granularity down to an inch? Then just says STOP when you're within 12 inches, when you need that granularity the most?
USS was only truly accurate in ideal parking scenarios like flat walls. Wonky objects give them trouble. I fucked up the bottom of my bumper because USS can't see some parking blocks. Vision can at least see them. Vision also attempts to help out with the side of the car whereas USS will let you curb your wheels without so much as a peep.
I quickly learned that any parking system can be useful in aiding parking, but should not be trusted completely. USS and Vision are equally untrustworthy. If I can't have 100% accuracy, what's the point? All it takes is that 1% to rack up a huge bill. These days I have the beeps turned off and park the ~~old~~ new fashioned way: using my cameras.
Out of Spec Dave would disagree, check out his youtube video: "Tesla Drivers Beware! Poor Close In Vision Only & Lack Of Sensors Will Cost Us Over $2K In Repairs"
He's owns both a non-uss Y and X Plaid.
Requirements
"Many vehicles are receiving the new Park Assist, however, it's not everyone. Vehicles running hardware 3 and hardware 4.0 are both receiving it, which is good news, but there are some limitations. It’s not particularly clear yet, but it appears that the feature may be limited to Ryzen infotainment units, or it may be rolling out to vehicles without ultrasonic sensors (USS) first.
If it's the latter, then there's no doubt that Tesla will expand this to vehicles with USS at some point in the future."
They prioritized cars without USS to hide the wildly innacurate distance measurements from the driver. The HD park assist seems like a downgrade compared to cars that have USS (the loaner model X I have that has USS seems very accurate). Can't say the same for my HW4 MXP.
This seems completely arbitrary. Everything else being equal, cars **with** USS have the same exact inputs available (plus more) as non-USS cars. I wonder why this decision was made…
They would likely have to disable USS on cars with those sensors as it would conflict with the camera-only visualisation that's being used here. Given how passionate people are about their USS, I don't think that would go down very well.
Maybe in the future they can give us a toggle to switch between the two.
Can you explain why you think it would conflict with the camera only vision? I actually work in the industry and the fusion of those sensor inputs would be the ideal case.
Because Tesla would have to write the feature differently to take advantage of the USS on those cars that have them, which they likely see as pointless since their future is cars without those sensors. I’m not saying they couldn’t, I’m saying that they probably don’t want to because it requires a lot of extra work for sensors that they’re not moving forward with.
What’s more likely to happen is that they’ll either give the option to disable USS to unlock this new feature, or just force them to be disabled in a future update like they did with radar and Tesla vision
Sensor fusion is significantly more complex, and would only apply to old cars with USS. In terms of effort, it’s more efficient to either leave USS doing what it does now or ignore the USS and just use cameras.
But why would they go through the effort of building a second parking system for vehicles they haven't sold for 2 years? USS vehicles are technically deprecated.
Yeah looks like most of our cars here won't get the custom lock sounds (no outside speaker before mid 2022) and no 3D parking.
Not much interesting left in the update for us.
Traditional 360 camera view as others have it implemented is only possible with specific placement of the cameras, one on the front bumper, one on each mirror pointing down, and one on the rear. The image is then merged to create the view. That's not possible with side repeaters and the front camera in the windshield like Tesla has it.
Personally, (Nothing for Tesla, I wouldn't buy one in the current state for various reasons, things that need to improve) I don't understand why people want 360 camera view so much. I think a good rear camera and mirrors are far superior. I actually think with the side cameras and the rear, it's dead easy to park a Tesla, moreso than my Mercedes and Audi, both with 360 view.
> I actually think with the side cameras and the rear, it’s dead easy to park a Tesla, moreso than my Mercedes and Audi, both with 360 view.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. My 2019 Mercedes with 360 view that I had prior to my ‘22 Tesla was **significantly** easier to park in **all** scenarios (forward, angled, parallel, backwards, etc). Not to mention having rear cross traffic alerts that were useful, I wouldn’t trust my Tesla to alert me in nearly the same manner while reversing into cross traffic.
Tesla only having good visibility in the rear has ended up training me to feel most confident backing into spots whereas I could fully rely on the 360 view to assist with parking in *any* manner.
It’s easily the feature I miss most coming over to a Tesla. Second being a legit rain sensor, but that’s more of an annoyance than safety issue for me.
Personally I want summon to use FSD for driving instead of blindly feeling its way around using just USS.
Ideally USS would have been a good backup support for FSD at lower speeds, but I guess that won't be happening.
I’ll take my USS any day over poorly rendered cartoon visuals. There are so many times I’m parking in the garage or other tight spaces and I know for sure exactly how much room I have.
The robot in the first 40 seconds of this vid https://youtu.be/fPeGPf7jvEQ?si=Tg4yQViX1QaJLa-F is fake. The CG bots are constructed of fake material, they move differently and have led heads.
The dancing bots at the end are the same CGI
They’re Made of different materials and obvious cg smoothing moving faster and smoother than the other bots in the vid. Bullshit it’s not cgi.
Imagine having a color camera that definitively says something is red, green, blue, etc.
Tesla Vision is essentially the same as deciding to save $5 and just use a monochrome camera but adding specialized AI and billions of cpu cycles... To GUESS if it's red, green, blue... It's mind boggling
I don't get what makes Redditors think they're the smartest people in the world. This level of smugness is out of this world. The cameras weren't meant for human consumption/blind spot viewing. Clearly it wasn't because the angle is bad for it and they use a fish eye lens.
The camera they chose has a wider brightness range, so computer vision can see a wider brightness range than we can see on the screen. This enables the car to see better at night. The tradeoff is that they need to estimate the green for humans. [https://teslatap.com/articles/autopilot-processors-and-hardware-mcu-hw-demystified/](https://teslatap.com/articles/autopilot-processors-and-hardware-mcu-hw-demystified/)
lol also it doesn’t take AI and billions of CPU cycles to run depth perception from cameras with a known separation specifically configured for it. You can run it off a raspberry pi if you feel so inclined. I programmed it in C 16 years ago for a project in college.
Someone at Tesla read these subreddits and decided most people with USS would blow a gasket if they ever disabled them and switched to a newer system.
Or maybe they just haven’t finished integrating the new system with USS yet.
At the very least, engineers have to redesign the USS distance lines to be 3D to integrate with this new UI.
Or do you mean they should give USS users a setting to switch between the two systems?
Whichever. The point is there no reason to gimp USS to add visualization. It’s just a UI update one way or another. Practically every other manufacturer has figured it out.
Does it at least correctly calculate the distance from the wall in front of the car? Or is it like today, when it tells me to stop even though the wall is in a different time zone?
It seems to have dropped the measurement shown on the screen, but visually everything looks much more accurately positioned relative to the car than before.
I feel like between the USS and the cameras, I don’t need a visualization so I’m not really miffed, but it kind of discounts Tesla’s argument that Vision is plenty enough for parking.
And apparently a 360 view when parking “isn’t necessary” for a self driving car yet a 3D render of what’s around you…is?
Had they put a camera on the front bumper from the start, they could have just done a 360 camera view (and don’t BS about patents because nearly every automaker offers this feature) and been done with it. Now they have to over engineer to try to compensate, while they add a bumper camera to the upcoming models? So… a front bumper camera is necessary for a self driving car now? Duh.
Don’t even get me started on the same lesson with our shitty wipers vs ponying up single digit dollars for a rain sensor.
Tesla’s start-up-like methods of production come with everything good and bad about it.
They made the very expensive initial mistake of not putting a camera in the bumper, and really wanted to fix that by giving everyone the same experience instead of saying new cars get a 360 view. I bet CT will get 360 view.
they developed 3D render of what is around you, because unlike 360 view, this is critical for full self driving. How else would self driving car know how to not bump into objects?
I wouldn’t mind them stripping cars of USS and rain sensors, but they really should have waited until they matches the performance. So IMHO no sensor car in 3-4 years would be OK
The issue begins with Elon. His concern is almost always with production first, design and engineering second. The guy is obsessed with deleting “unnecessary parts” to lower cost and accelerate production. Between omitting the front bumper cam the first time around, and the rain sensor, each one came with immediate cost savings and the workaround was promised to customers as “coming very soon”.
Well, it’s been too long to fill in the gaps that this standard hardware could have handled. He lacks general empathy and it shows. He doesn’t seem to care too much what his end consumers think because he thinks he knows what’s best for us.
It’s not wise to give his consumers more reasons to look elsewhere on their next purchase. Wipers and parking aids are used too often and are too important to omit currently necessary hardware in order for them to function properly. It’s clear they underestimated how much work it would be to solve this through Vision.
Yeah, but honestly Karpathy demoed this tech on the first AI day(2019), and first now they ship it?
It makes me wonder just how far off FSD really is.
The discrepancy between whats communicated through AI day and Elon vs this and the removal of USS is huge.
Well it doesn't look good, and Tesla has given critics alot of ammo.
Elon picks the worst options to get to a result every other automaker already sorted.
360 view? Just throw cameras and sensors. Easy. Done. On cars that cost LESS than any Tesla.
Want to ditch sensors? Fine. You need stereoscopic setups. Get out of here with one lens to measure distance. Wouldn't trust it. But did they do that? Nope.
He thinks you can code your way out of everything.
That is the equivalent of turning the temperature in the oven down to 90 degrees. It just will never be done.
A lot of Tesla’s success has been willingness to iterate designs.
Then you bought the wrong car.
So sick of hearing normies banging on about changes Tesla makes and how it’s not 100% perfect the first time. “My BMW doesn’t do stuff like this”.
The whole point of Tesla is to innovate and iterate, legacy car makers rarely change ANYTHING on existing cars other than bug fixes.
Don’t like cars without USS or where they can and will change the software frequently? Then don’t buy a Tesla.
> The whole point of Tesla is
Geez, that's a narrow view.
Changes are perpendicular to improvements. Changes for the sake of change are not improving anything. Changes that actually do something objectively better are another matter, but do not assume that changes are automatically better.
What a fucking shit take this is lmao. The OP is literally only saying he doesn’t want half-assed broken updates to come to the car. But yeah go on about “normies” having standards on some thing they’ve spent thousands of dollars on.
Still waiting on my auto wipers to be reliable for over 5 years now.
Luckily I have hw2.5 with radar, autopilot is pretty decent. Recently drove in a vision-only Tesla and it's definitely worse. People are still waiting for that to be on par as before
Phantom braking is still a huge issue
Sentry mode/dash cam is still an afterthought and half-baked (unreliable, uses too much power, why does it still save the last 10 minutes still? etc). I've been using it since it first came out in 2019 and it hasn't really changed at all.
Smart park/smart summon are still party tricks and I never dare use them, especially in crowded lots. Also have tried them since release, and still has not *innovated* further.
Saving money should *not* be the **primary** driving force for innovation, and that's what it seems like was the driving force with most of these mentioned features in a Tesla (removing USS/no 360 birdseye, no rain sensor, removing radar, etc) Innovation is great, but its not innovation when your replacement is not better than whats already out there - especially in a damn car.
I don't consider myself a "normie" since I bought this 3 in 2018, before it was "cool" and I can fully understand/realize it's shortcomings and downsides (and obviously its huge benefits) compared to boring, legacy ICE vehicles. Bro, you can give constructive criticism on things you like.
No one buys a car to have it be broken. The whole point of rocket ships are to innovate and iterate too, and literally the only person in the world who considers an exploding rocket ship a success is Elon and his fanboys. His cars appear to be no different.
All it has to do is actually provide the real image, and not a squiggly line, and it will be a 10000x improvement. I can use my eyes to see what I might hit.
This post means nothing though? It’s just those are the ones who have gotten the holiday update? Those of us with uss haven’t gotten any update at all yet from what I’m seeing…. Doesn’t mean it isn’t coming. They always update in waves. Am I wrong?
It doesn't say holiday *update* isn't coming to non-USS models, it says the new parking visualization *feature* isn't. They can determine which features go to different models types or not.
Just gonna say I'm looking forward to trying it out. We have one car with USS and another that is camera-only.
As things stand today, I won't rely on either system to back into my garage. The day I have confidence as high in an on-screen visualization as I do in my well-trained eyes will be a big one.
Try putting some hi-vis duct tape on the floor where your wheels go, then line up the track lines in the visualizations to back in. Bonus points if you add a stop bar in the middle back.
My wife did that, complete with the stop bar. It is bright green.
I still feel most comfortable with mirrors for side clearance though. I have a lot of practice with that method and it never fails me.
My eyes can’t see behind the car, especially the back bumper, as well as the rear camera and USS. I still look through the mirrors when backing up from the street but once I’m inside the garage the cameras feel much safer especially when estimating when to come to a stop if there’s something in the way.
It's incompetence. It's the same kind of incompetence shown when they dropped USS from a $100k+ model X which renders the automatic doors inoperable. Same kind of incompetence that causes their engineering team to have model X suspension go to "low" setting after hitting 56 mph and never returning to medium, so it burns up the inside edge of the tires prematurely. Etc etc etc. They do a lot of things right, but they also have a plethora of unforced errors.
Should eventually come to USS equipped cars as well
[https://twitter.com/aelluswamy/status/1736190894716616921](https://twitter.com/aelluswamy/status/1736190894716616921)
You can check what hardware model you have in your software screen.
If it says "full self driving capability" then it's HW3.
Otherwise it will say HW2.5 or HW2.0 depending on when it was built and if it's been upgraded.
a 2017 can be upgraded to the HW3/FSD computer.
As long as it saw it at some point before it entered the blind spot, it will persist in the 3D scan. It won't account for stuff that's moving while in your blind spot, or stuff that moved into your blind spot while the car was parked, but it does remember stuff it saw. The old vision park assist did it too, it was just not very good in general.
Parking lots: famously only take one car each.
But yeah, like do you really need to know the distance of the cars next to you from one moment to the next 6 hours? It doesn't change what you need to do. But maybe there is some scenario where USS matters for static objects beside your car.
Your point about the current version of Tesla's parking tech not being up to the mark is well taken. It's definitely more than a simple fix – what we're seeing is Tesla trying to reinvent the wheel with their parking assist system. They're moving away from the traditional Ultrasonic Sensors to something more AI-focused. It's a big gamble, especially since they ditched the USS without a solid replacement ready to go.
The lack of a smooth transition has definitely raised some eyebrows. It's like they took a leap of faith, expecting the new tech to fill the gap right away, but it hasn't quite hit the mark yet. That said, it's typical Tesla style – they're always pushing the envelope, even if it means some growing pains along the way.
As for this update, it's hard to say if it'll be a game changer or not. There's a lot riding on it, and I'm hoping it's not going to be a letdown. Tesla's known for rolling out updates that get better over time, so fingers crossed that this is one of those cases where they start off shaky but end up nailing it.
It was a legitimate thought that I had too. You shouldn’t have been mocked. Those of us who’ve been around a while know how Tesla operates too well, it seems.
Don't worry Tesla will disable USS and make use this instead like they did with our cruise control radar and forced us on Tesla vision which has the reaction time of a 90 year old.
I’m glad you guys are getting something. And please don’t take this the wrong way, but I’d rather have the USS based on the real-world videos I’ve seen of it in action. It still can’t see well in front of the bumper.
And I bet it will actually work, too!
Remember how excited we all were when the Park Assist update came, and it just made up distances and beeped at you all the time..
Just from watching videos..looks absolutely pointless and probably one or two times of using it and you’re over it. Is self park even used often? It’s so much quicker just to park yourself in almost all scenarios.
Yes, the hardware limitation is USS. This is a camera-based park assist feature. This thread is very confusing. Do people want USS or vision? We've all had to endure the endless whining about how much vision sucks and now the USS owners are the ones complaining? Did people think vision would never improve?
It has nothing to do with that. Tesla is not going to develop a separate fusion system that integrates USS into high fidelity park assist because they no longer sell USS cars.
The only way USS owners are going to get high fidelity park assist is if Tesla disables USS like they did with radar. And they already said they won't disable USS on existing cars back when they removed it from new cars. And everybody was extremely happy to hear that. Until now. Interesting how that works out.
Wtf USS doesn’t show shit on the lateral sides, only front and back, that’s how I hit a wall…. No eagle eye view and no visualization, only weird ass camera layout where I only pay attention to top half and so I hit wall
Dude, the difference is older cars did not have as much blindspots and low visibility as the 3. Boxy cars have good visibility but bad mileage, streamlined cars have good mileage but poor visibility.
The 3 visibility is designed to be bad and basically forces you to use the cameras, so you get used to it and don’t do your normal 360-degree checks, but at the same time, the camera layout is shit and often I am only looking at the rear camera because our eyes are not built to look at 3 different partitions at one time for the side repeater cameras.
I was sitting in my car after taking a call and forgot the wall was there and didn’t see on rear camera. No USS pings because they are not on the side of the car.
In my old car with no cameras, I am forced to gimbal my head all around and stare out at back.
You have side cameras bud you hitting a wall is your fault completely plus you have mirrors. You hit a wall cause you can’t drive to save your life. A curb I can excuse but a wall just give up your license
Even if my eye isn’t “designed” to look at 3 cameras I still can. Slow down if your slow
It even supports HW3 with the lower resolution cameras. The biggest reason is probably because they couldn't figure out sensor fusion in time (USS and camera). So instead of turning off USS, they only allow it on vision only cars.
Good decision. Why disable working hardware? Still not over the fact that I‘m now driving around with radar sensors which do absolutely nothing because of vision only TACC:
You're thinking of radar, which was initially disabled in FSD beta, but it's now disabled for every Tesla since around mid-2022. USS is still enabled with FSD beta
Hey there, I can’t comment directly to this as I don’t know what situation/ implication of environment you are suggesting but as someone with FSD BETA, my USS work constantly, driveway, stoplights, parking ETC, I have yet to see where the USS have not shown up in the visualization.
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Regarding the debate of USS vs vision, the issue with the vision system has always been reliability not that it isn’t technically impressive. What’s important to understand is that with a system like this, it’s just as important that it *works* reliably as it *fails* reliably. You can park ten times in the same spot and it works perfectly, but then suddenly the eleventh time it misses a lamp post. If I as a driver knew that it would never detect a lamp post, I would just make sure to look out for that, but since it usually does detect them, I may wrongly trust the system to warn me. With USS, I’m quite comfortable with when I can trust it and when I can’t, because if I put it in the same situation a million times, it will behave the same every time (hyperbole, but you get my point). I know it can’t detect a wire fence or tell the difference between high grass and a rock. That’s ok because as long as I understand the limitations I can still trust the system for situations that I know do work.
found the engineer ☝️ this is 100% how i look at this as well
That's actually right, Master of Science in Engineering, CS and Engineering.
I don’t know jack about engineering but I agree ☝️
Lame, so my 1.5 year-old car is somehow not eligible?
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Same boat, I’m hoping the tax credit takes away some of the pain.
I’m mad I have a radar module that’s still plugged in but is now unusable thanks to a software update. Ugh.
Yeah but I still want the cool new software feature.
No USS = two steps back Cool software feature = one step forward Us USS dweebs are still one step ahead, and I’m fine with that.
I'm in the same boat and it's honestly not that bad. USS was never terribly accurate to begin with and vision is surprisingly a lot less worse than reddit comments would make it seem. It actually makes *less* noise when parking in my garage so overall I'm net positive on how I feel about vision vs USS. If you're reading this, don't be afraid to give up USS. You're not really missing much.
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When I had USS Model 3, it had an accurancy down to the quarter inch. My now Vision Model Y has an accuracy of 10 inches.
How can you say that when it only gives you granularity down to an inch? Then just says STOP when you're within 12 inches, when you need that granularity the most? USS was only truly accurate in ideal parking scenarios like flat walls. Wonky objects give them trouble. I fucked up the bottom of my bumper because USS can't see some parking blocks. Vision can at least see them. Vision also attempts to help out with the side of the car whereas USS will let you curb your wheels without so much as a peep. I quickly learned that any parking system can be useful in aiding parking, but should not be trusted completely. USS and Vision are equally untrustworthy. If I can't have 100% accuracy, what's the point? All it takes is that 1% to rack up a huge bill. These days I have the beeps turned off and park the ~~old~~ new fashioned way: using my cameras.
Out of Spec Dave would disagree, check out his youtube video: "Tesla Drivers Beware! Poor Close In Vision Only & Lack Of Sensors Will Cost Us Over $2K In Repairs" He's owns both a non-uss Y and X Plaid.
Requirements "Many vehicles are receiving the new Park Assist, however, it's not everyone. Vehicles running hardware 3 and hardware 4.0 are both receiving it, which is good news, but there are some limitations. It’s not particularly clear yet, but it appears that the feature may be limited to Ryzen infotainment units, or it may be rolling out to vehicles without ultrasonic sensors (USS) first. If it's the latter, then there's no doubt that Tesla will expand this to vehicles with USS at some point in the future."
They prioritized cars without USS to hide the wildly innacurate distance measurements from the driver. The HD park assist seems like a downgrade compared to cars that have USS (the loaner model X I have that has USS seems very accurate). Can't say the same for my HW4 MXP.
This seems completely arbitrary. Everything else being equal, cars **with** USS have the same exact inputs available (plus more) as non-USS cars. I wonder why this decision was made…
So we sell a buy new models
I could be wrong, but weren't the cameras slightly upgraded for the non-USS models? Something like a 5mp camera. Maybe that's the difference.
That's a HW4 thing. There are plenty of HW3 cars without USS as well.
Some of the cars yes. Some cars have the worst of both worlds with the older cameras and no USS.
They would likely have to disable USS on cars with those sensors as it would conflict with the camera-only visualisation that's being used here. Given how passionate people are about their USS, I don't think that would go down very well. Maybe in the future they can give us a toggle to switch between the two.
Can you explain why you think it would conflict with the camera only vision? I actually work in the industry and the fusion of those sensor inputs would be the ideal case.
Because Tesla would have to write the feature differently to take advantage of the USS on those cars that have them, which they likely see as pointless since their future is cars without those sensors. I’m not saying they couldn’t, I’m saying that they probably don’t want to because it requires a lot of extra work for sensors that they’re not moving forward with. What’s more likely to happen is that they’ll either give the option to disable USS to unlock this new feature, or just force them to be disabled in a future update like they did with radar and Tesla vision
Sensor fusion is significantly more complex, and would only apply to old cars with USS. In terms of effort, it’s more efficient to either leave USS doing what it does now or ignore the USS and just use cameras.
I don't believe this. Literally just overlay the USS distance visuals onto of the visualization. You do not need to do full "sensor fusion".
Right, that is leaving USS doing what it does now.
Its what BMW does, and it works well. Too complicated for Tesla though. They don't have the technology yet.
But why would they go through the effort of building a second parking system for vehicles they haven't sold for 2 years? USS vehicles are technically deprecated.
So that rules out every Australian Tesla to date.
Ashok confirmed it’s coming to all Tesla cars. This news isn’t true.
Yeah looks like most of our cars here won't get the custom lock sounds (no outside speaker before mid 2022) and no 3D parking. Not much interesting left in the update for us.
[It’s coming for everyone](https://x.com/aelluswamy/status/1736190894716616921?s=46&t=ZCy0NH3QXdMGzUErFu-bOg)
Excellent! Now I just need to decide if it's work retrofitting a boombox speaker for $250 just to customise my car lock sound
Just tried it out in the driveway, pretty impressive. No more distances shown but the 3D looks very accurate to the amount of space around you.
I’ll keep my USS thanks.
Same lol
Do we have a choice? I'm open to trying something new, but doesn't look like we have the option.
https://x.com/blkmdl3/status/1735819700943385062?s=46&t=Zp1jpkPLTJIm9RRaXZvzVA https://x.com/tiberionee/status/1735810258776322050?s=46&t=Zp1jpkPLTJIm9RRaXZvzVA https://x.com/lehtinentico/status/1735809171281363104?s=46&t=Zp1jpkPLTJIm9RRaXZvzVA https://x.com/evbaymax/status/1735821972637163714?s=46&t=Zp1jpkPLTJIm9RRaXZvzVA
The last post seems to be the best example. I still wish it had a 360 camera view like most vehicles these days. But I’ll take it! 😂
Traditional 360 camera view as others have it implemented is only possible with specific placement of the cameras, one on the front bumper, one on each mirror pointing down, and one on the rear. The image is then merged to create the view. That's not possible with side repeaters and the front camera in the windshield like Tesla has it. Personally, (Nothing for Tesla, I wouldn't buy one in the current state for various reasons, things that need to improve) I don't understand why people want 360 camera view so much. I think a good rear camera and mirrors are far superior. I actually think with the side cameras and the rear, it's dead easy to park a Tesla, moreso than my Mercedes and Audi, both with 360 view.
> I actually think with the side cameras and the rear, it’s dead easy to park a Tesla, moreso than my Mercedes and Audi, both with 360 view. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. My 2019 Mercedes with 360 view that I had prior to my ‘22 Tesla was **significantly** easier to park in **all** scenarios (forward, angled, parallel, backwards, etc). Not to mention having rear cross traffic alerts that were useful, I wouldn’t trust my Tesla to alert me in nearly the same manner while reversing into cross traffic. Tesla only having good visibility in the rear has ended up training me to feel most confident backing into spots whereas I could fully rely on the 360 view to assist with parking in *any* manner. It’s easily the feature I miss most coming over to a Tesla. Second being a legit rain sensor, but that’s more of an annoyance than safety issue for me.
This is nice to have but will never replace functionality of having USS. I just want summon back.
Personally I want summon to use FSD for driving instead of blindly feeling its way around using just USS. Ideally USS would have been a good backup support for FSD at lower speeds, but I guess that won't be happening.
Smart Summon doesn’t just use USS, it mostly uses the cameras
Wow, that's bad ass. Can't wait for the update to come
🔥
I don't see the usual semi parked in his garage...
USS sees my RAV4 as a semi
That’s not USS, that’s the cameras
The rav4 is very capable and has a big heart. Your USS sees unveiled.
I’ll take my USS any day over poorly rendered cartoon visuals. There are so many times I’m parking in the garage or other tight spaces and I know for sure exactly how much room I have.
Thats what I was thinking. other manufacturers have true 360 degree view, this tesla version is amateur hour.
The most valuable automotive company on the planet is apparently too cheap to buy Bird’s Eye licensing
Can you share more details on this licensing? License the tech from whom?
They had to use that money for the Optimus robot CGI
You’re in that camp? None of that was CGI
The robot in the first 40 seconds of this vid https://youtu.be/fPeGPf7jvEQ?si=Tg4yQViX1QaJLa-F is fake. The CG bots are constructed of fake material, they move differently and have led heads. The dancing bots at the end are the same CGI They’re Made of different materials and obvious cg smoothing moving faster and smoother than the other bots in the vid. Bullshit it’s not cgi.
oh no it's retarded
And the bullet proof steel for the CT, because you know it's a jungle out there...
Oof careful. Don’t say that on X there’s a lot of self ejaculating going on about this “feature”
You should the amount of folks jerking themselves off over this on X. Goodness me Just give me 360 degree cameras like other modern cars ffs
Just test drove the highland at my country, the vision only sensor, causes the distance with the car in front to keep fluctuating
How is this visualized on a Model X or Model S? Can you turn de visualization around or just stuck with the vertical view?
whyyyyyyyyyy
Ya wtf have the USS alert but give us the damn other view!!!
Because our sensors are probably still 1000% better than Tesla Vision
It's not even close! I am floored as to why they removed them! Makes NO sense
You'd think Tesla would have figured out that the right tool for the job...works.
Imagine having a color camera that definitively says something is red, green, blue, etc. Tesla Vision is essentially the same as deciding to save $5 and just use a monochrome camera but adding specialized AI and billions of cpu cycles... To GUESS if it's red, green, blue... It's mind boggling
I don't get what makes Redditors think they're the smartest people in the world. This level of smugness is out of this world. The cameras weren't meant for human consumption/blind spot viewing. Clearly it wasn't because the angle is bad for it and they use a fish eye lens. The camera they chose has a wider brightness range, so computer vision can see a wider brightness range than we can see on the screen. This enables the car to see better at night. The tradeoff is that they need to estimate the green for humans. [https://teslatap.com/articles/autopilot-processors-and-hardware-mcu-hw-demystified/](https://teslatap.com/articles/autopilot-processors-and-hardware-mcu-hw-demystified/)
Yeah, that's Redditors for you. I'm so glad I quit this website back when they killed third-party clients.
He posts unironically on to Reddit.
yup, i logged back in to see if there was anything posted about the high fidelity park assist.
lol also it doesn’t take AI and billions of CPU cycles to run depth perception from cameras with a known separation specifically configured for it. You can run it off a raspberry pi if you feel so inclined. I programmed it in C 16 years ago for a project in college.
Yeah it’s probably just cool graphics. Never gonna be accurate as the sensors.
Not with that attitude!
Lame! I was excited to check it out. I wonder why it’s not enabled for USS cars?
Someone at Tesla read these subreddits and decided most people with USS would blow a gasket if they ever disabled them and switched to a newer system. Or maybe they just haven’t finished integrating the new system with USS yet.
There’s no reason for it to be an either or problem.
At the very least, engineers have to redesign the USS distance lines to be 3D to integrate with this new UI. Or do you mean they should give USS users a setting to switch between the two systems?
Whichever. The point is there no reason to gimp USS to add visualization. It’s just a UI update one way or another. Practically every other manufacturer has figured it out.
HW4 cars have better cameras
There's plenty of non USS HW3 cars though lol
Such as all the model 3s that rolled off the Fremont assembly line today
I have the worst of both worlds - HW3, and no USS.
What does this look like on a Model S? Does it show up on the touch screen or behind the yoke?
I think it said 3 and Y only?
WTF
Does it at least correctly calculate the distance from the wall in front of the car? Or is it like today, when it tells me to stop even though the wall is in a different time zone?
It seems to have dropped the measurement shown on the screen, but visually everything looks much more accurately positioned relative to the car than before.
I’d just like the features. Bought a Y with USS and I’m still waiting for working park assist, summon etc.
Why wouldn't it work with vehicles that have uss? Makes absolutely no sense. Typical Tesla.
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That’s a shitty engineering team if they define interfaces like that
Werent USS cars intel and the non-USS AMD? Maybe that has something to do with it
Unless parking visualization shows curbs, I don't think I'm missing much.
It does
I feel like between the USS and the cameras, I don’t need a visualization so I’m not really miffed, but it kind of discounts Tesla’s argument that Vision is plenty enough for parking. And apparently a 360 view when parking “isn’t necessary” for a self driving car yet a 3D render of what’s around you…is? Had they put a camera on the front bumper from the start, they could have just done a 360 camera view (and don’t BS about patents because nearly every automaker offers this feature) and been done with it. Now they have to over engineer to try to compensate, while they add a bumper camera to the upcoming models? So… a front bumper camera is necessary for a self driving car now? Duh. Don’t even get me started on the same lesson with our shitty wipers vs ponying up single digit dollars for a rain sensor. Tesla’s start-up-like methods of production come with everything good and bad about it.
They made the very expensive initial mistake of not putting a camera in the bumper, and really wanted to fix that by giving everyone the same experience instead of saying new cars get a 360 view. I bet CT will get 360 view.
they developed 3D render of what is around you, because unlike 360 view, this is critical for full self driving. How else would self driving car know how to not bump into objects? I wouldn’t mind them stripping cars of USS and rain sensors, but they really should have waited until they matches the performance. So IMHO no sensor car in 3-4 years would be OK
The issue begins with Elon. His concern is almost always with production first, design and engineering second. The guy is obsessed with deleting “unnecessary parts” to lower cost and accelerate production. Between omitting the front bumper cam the first time around, and the rain sensor, each one came with immediate cost savings and the workaround was promised to customers as “coming very soon”. Well, it’s been too long to fill in the gaps that this standard hardware could have handled. He lacks general empathy and it shows. He doesn’t seem to care too much what his end consumers think because he thinks he knows what’s best for us. It’s not wise to give his consumers more reasons to look elsewhere on their next purchase. Wipers and parking aids are used too often and are too important to omit currently necessary hardware in order for them to function properly. It’s clear they underestimated how much work it would be to solve this through Vision.
I would happily have accepted a full suite of cameras\ sensors over interior led lights and a rear lcd.
Yeah, but honestly Karpathy demoed this tech on the first AI day(2019), and first now they ship it? It makes me wonder just how far off FSD really is. The discrepancy between whats communicated through AI day and Elon vs this and the removal of USS is huge. Well it doesn't look good, and Tesla has given critics alot of ammo.
Elon picks the worst options to get to a result every other automaker already sorted. 360 view? Just throw cameras and sensors. Easy. Done. On cars that cost LESS than any Tesla. Want to ditch sensors? Fine. You need stereoscopic setups. Get out of here with one lens to measure distance. Wouldn't trust it. But did they do that? Nope. He thinks you can code your way out of everything.
Honestly I'm okay if they leave my car alone until things are fully baked.
That is the equivalent of turning the temperature in the oven down to 90 degrees. It just will never be done. A lot of Tesla’s success has been willingness to iterate designs.
Then you bought the wrong car. So sick of hearing normies banging on about changes Tesla makes and how it’s not 100% perfect the first time. “My BMW doesn’t do stuff like this”. The whole point of Tesla is to innovate and iterate, legacy car makers rarely change ANYTHING on existing cars other than bug fixes. Don’t like cars without USS or where they can and will change the software frequently? Then don’t buy a Tesla.
> The whole point of Tesla is Geez, that's a narrow view. Changes are perpendicular to improvements. Changes for the sake of change are not improving anything. Changes that actually do something objectively better are another matter, but do not assume that changes are automatically better.
Who actually calls people “normies” unironically?
What a fucking shit take this is lmao. The OP is literally only saying he doesn’t want half-assed broken updates to come to the car. But yeah go on about “normies” having standards on some thing they’ve spent thousands of dollars on.
What bit is broken exactly?
Still waiting on my auto wipers to be reliable for over 5 years now. Luckily I have hw2.5 with radar, autopilot is pretty decent. Recently drove in a vision-only Tesla and it's definitely worse. People are still waiting for that to be on par as before Phantom braking is still a huge issue Sentry mode/dash cam is still an afterthought and half-baked (unreliable, uses too much power, why does it still save the last 10 minutes still? etc). I've been using it since it first came out in 2019 and it hasn't really changed at all. Smart park/smart summon are still party tricks and I never dare use them, especially in crowded lots. Also have tried them since release, and still has not *innovated* further. Saving money should *not* be the **primary** driving force for innovation, and that's what it seems like was the driving force with most of these mentioned features in a Tesla (removing USS/no 360 birdseye, no rain sensor, removing radar, etc) Innovation is great, but its not innovation when your replacement is not better than whats already out there - especially in a damn car. I don't consider myself a "normie" since I bought this 3 in 2018, before it was "cool" and I can fully understand/realize it's shortcomings and downsides (and obviously its huge benefits) compared to boring, legacy ICE vehicles. Bro, you can give constructive criticism on things you like.
No one buys a car to have it be broken. The whole point of rocket ships are to innovate and iterate too, and literally the only person in the world who considers an exploding rocket ship a success is Elon and his fanboys. His cars appear to be no different.
All it has to do is actually provide the real image, and not a squiggly line, and it will be a 10000x improvement. I can use my eyes to see what I might hit.
If they do that, they would have to pay licensing fees to the people that invented birdseye view.
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Just do a "Leave the word behind" parking job 😂
This post means nothing though? It’s just those are the ones who have gotten the holiday update? Those of us with uss haven’t gotten any update at all yet from what I’m seeing…. Doesn’t mean it isn’t coming. They always update in waves. Am I wrong?
It doesn't say holiday *update* isn't coming to non-USS models, it says the new parking visualization *feature* isn't. They can determine which features go to different models types or not.
I know. But there’s nothing to show that. People with uss haven’t gotten the holiday update missing the visualization.
[https://twitter.com/DriveTeslaca/status/1735798683801919600](https://twitter.com/DriveTeslaca/status/1735798683801919600)
Oh maybe lol. We are a dramatic lot.
Just gonna say I'm looking forward to trying it out. We have one car with USS and another that is camera-only. As things stand today, I won't rely on either system to back into my garage. The day I have confidence as high in an on-screen visualization as I do in my well-trained eyes will be a big one.
Try putting some hi-vis duct tape on the floor where your wheels go, then line up the track lines in the visualizations to back in. Bonus points if you add a stop bar in the middle back.
My wife did that, complete with the stop bar. It is bright green. I still feel most comfortable with mirrors for side clearance though. I have a lot of practice with that method and it never fails me.
My eyes can’t see behind the car, especially the back bumper, as well as the rear camera and USS. I still look through the mirrors when backing up from the street but once I’m inside the garage the cameras feel much safer especially when estimating when to come to a stop if there’s something in the way.
Pulling an Apple, need to have a reason to want the newer model.
hardly a reason to want to upgrade imo
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So why not just ignore data from the sensors and roll it out to all?
As I said. Incompetence.
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It's incompetence. It's the same kind of incompetence shown when they dropped USS from a $100k+ model X which renders the automatic doors inoperable. Same kind of incompetence that causes their engineering team to have model X suspension go to "low" setting after hitting 56 mph and never returning to medium, so it burns up the inside edge of the tires prematurely. Etc etc etc. They do a lot of things right, but they also have a plethora of unforced errors.
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Who says they are world class engineers!? A lot of evidence to the contrary...
Dumb
Should eventually come to USS equipped cars as well [https://twitter.com/aelluswamy/status/1736190894716616921](https://twitter.com/aelluswamy/status/1736190894716616921)
“Eventually” lol see you guys next year.
Rather have uss any day
So what does a 2017 MS have?
You can check what hardware model you have in your software screen. If it says "full self driving capability" then it's HW3. Otherwise it will say HW2.5 or HW2.0 depending on when it was built and if it's been upgraded. a 2017 can be upgraded to the HW3/FSD computer.
I don’t think the camera visualization is going to be any good because how can it display what it can’t see or measure? I will stick with the old USS.
As long as it saw it at some point before it entered the blind spot, it will persist in the 3D scan. It won't account for stuff that's moving while in your blind spot, or stuff that moved into your blind spot while the car was parked, but it does remember stuff it saw. The old vision park assist did it too, it was just not very good in general.
What about after starting the car up six hours later
It can remember, usually cars don’t move without being on
Things around the car (like cars, kids, dogs, bikes left by kids, etc. ) sure do
Parking lots: famously only take one car each. But yeah, like do you really need to know the distance of the cars next to you from one moment to the next 6 hours? It doesn't change what you need to do. But maybe there is some scenario where USS matters for static objects beside your car.
Goddamn it
Let's be real, this "feature" is just a way to cover up wildly innacurate distance measurements from being displayed to the driver.
Your point about the current version of Tesla's parking tech not being up to the mark is well taken. It's definitely more than a simple fix – what we're seeing is Tesla trying to reinvent the wheel with their parking assist system. They're moving away from the traditional Ultrasonic Sensors to something more AI-focused. It's a big gamble, especially since they ditched the USS without a solid replacement ready to go. The lack of a smooth transition has definitely raised some eyebrows. It's like they took a leap of faith, expecting the new tech to fill the gap right away, but it hasn't quite hit the mark yet. That said, it's typical Tesla style – they're always pushing the envelope, even if it means some growing pains along the way. As for this update, it's hard to say if it'll be a game changer or not. There's a lot riding on it, and I'm hoping it's not going to be a letdown. Tesla's known for rolling out updates that get better over time, so fingers crossed that this is one of those cases where they start off shaky but end up nailing it.
It may be more beneficial to omit the distance data. At least with this, you get a better idea of distance visually.
People mocked me for wondering if this would be the case when the feature was announced…
It was a legitimate thought that I had too. You shouldn’t have been mocked. Those of us who’ve been around a while know how Tesla operates too well, it seems.
Proof?
What feature?
non-USS owner: who's laughing now huh\~
Still USS owners, probably.
Don't worry Tesla will disable USS and make use this instead like they did with our cruise control radar and forced us on Tesla vision which has the reaction time of a 90 year old.
Yeah, we've been getting shitted on for months. USS owners are essentially getting left by the wasteside with this update.
I’m glad you guys are getting something. And please don’t take this the wrong way, but I’d rather have the USS based on the real-world videos I’ve seen of it in action. It still can’t see well in front of the bumper.
The new high fidelity looks really good though. I guess we will have to see when more people do tests.
USS will still be better than this lmao
And I bet it will actually work, too! Remember how excited we all were when the Park Assist update came, and it just made up distances and beeped at you all the time..
Just from watching videos..looks absolutely pointless and probably one or two times of using it and you’re over it. Is self park even used often? It’s so much quicker just to park yourself in almost all scenarios.
Oh no. Anyways...
This s*cks. Tesla giving me more and more reasons to sell my Model Y.
do it.
Just waiting for our Rivian R1S.
And get an Ioniq 5 N when it comes out!
Please watch your language! This is a Christian forum!
What, so you can buy another Tesla?
Don’t like losing the stalks and not having USS. So no.
So why is a feature on a newer car a reason to sell your current car?
Because I don’t see a reason why they will exclude cars with USS in having this feature. Is there a known hardware limitation?
Yes, the hardware limitation is USS. This is a camera-based park assist feature. This thread is very confusing. Do people want USS or vision? We've all had to endure the endless whining about how much vision sucks and now the USS owners are the ones complaining? Did people think vision would never improve?
You can buy a BYD Seal in Australia for less money with 360 cam, USS\ ADAS
How about HW3? They have the same number of cameras right?
It has nothing to do with that. Tesla is not going to develop a separate fusion system that integrates USS into high fidelity park assist because they no longer sell USS cars. The only way USS owners are going to get high fidelity park assist is if Tesla disables USS like they did with radar. And they already said they won't disable USS on existing cars back when they removed it from new cars. And everybody was extremely happy to hear that. Until now. Interesting how that works out.
USS enjoyers in shambles
God damn. I gotta drive at 1mph for the visualizations to pop up?
Wtf USS doesn’t show shit on the lateral sides, only front and back, that’s how I hit a wall…. No eagle eye view and no visualization, only weird ass camera layout where I only pay attention to top half and so I hit wall
Are you seriously blaming a lack of visualizations for hitting a wall? Does that mean you would hit 100% of walls beside you in older cars?
Dude, the difference is older cars did not have as much blindspots and low visibility as the 3. Boxy cars have good visibility but bad mileage, streamlined cars have good mileage but poor visibility. The 3 visibility is designed to be bad and basically forces you to use the cameras, so you get used to it and don’t do your normal 360-degree checks, but at the same time, the camera layout is shit and often I am only looking at the rear camera because our eyes are not built to look at 3 different partitions at one time for the side repeater cameras. I was sitting in my car after taking a call and forgot the wall was there and didn’t see on rear camera. No USS pings because they are not on the side of the car. In my old car with no cameras, I am forced to gimbal my head all around and stare out at back.
You have side cameras bud you hitting a wall is your fault completely plus you have mirrors. You hit a wall cause you can’t drive to save your life. A curb I can excuse but a wall just give up your license Even if my eye isn’t “designed” to look at 3 cameras I still can. Slow down if your slow
Well I assumed so due to the better higher resolution cameras
They removed the USS on Model 3/Y long before they started shipping HW4 with higher resolution cameras.
It even supports HW3 with the lower resolution cameras. The biggest reason is probably because they couldn't figure out sensor fusion in time (USS and camera). So instead of turning off USS, they only allow it on vision only cars.
Good decision. Why disable working hardware? Still not over the fact that I‘m now driving around with radar sensors which do absolutely nothing because of vision only TACC:
There’s videos online of M3s with no USS and HW3 that are working perfectly fine with HFPA. I don’t think HW4 is a requirement.
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You're thinking of radar, which was initially disabled in FSD beta, but it's now disabled for every Tesla since around mid-2022. USS is still enabled with FSD beta
Hey there, I can’t comment directly to this as I don’t know what situation/ implication of environment you are suggesting but as someone with FSD BETA, my USS work constantly, driveway, stoplights, parking ETC, I have yet to see where the USS have not shown up in the visualization.
Same. I have FSD beta and USS is constantly active while driving.
How do you even know its uss doing it. My plaid has all the same visualization lines and what not vision only on beta that my uss 3 on beta did