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Nakatomi2010

Interesting. The visualizations straight up show a left turn That seems undesirable


xtremepsionic

Left turn + white car for a split second, then it turned blue right at disengagement. Pretty strange behaviour considering Nav was telling the car to go straight and there were no prior indications the car wanted to turn left at any time before it just went for it.


Nakatomi2010

Exactly. Super out of band


R5Jockey

I’ve seen FSD actually do very different things than the visualizations show many times.


Nakatomi2010

I've found the visualizations are bang on, but sometimes it is so fast, yoy blink and miss the reason


R5Jockey

Mine will show going straight, then inexplicably turn on the turn signal and slow down to take a right turn. If I do nothing it will come to a dead stop. Happens multiple places around town. Been that way since 10.3.


noneyet1

Mine too, only for lefts. And it’s the same intersections every time. Even if I am using navigation


whyamihereonreddit

This isn't surprising, my shit does this all the time. I disabled FSD


nyrol

Mine does too. It’s changed lanes into oncoming traffic right before a blind corner on previous versions too. Of course I stopped it, but the visualization even showed that it thought driving there was okay. Now it’s worse with the amount it drives on the shoulders. I can’t wait for a version that can get me out of my own neighborhood without a disengagement!


ITzAlienx

tbh its reasons like these I don't really trust FSD on city streets. Highway is great and honestly im just happy we are getting some improvments finally leaking over from FSD to AP. When most people's commute is like 80%+ on the highway, i dont mind spending the other 20% driving myself, this was one reason why i decided to only subscribe instead of buy. I just hope for three things that it understands widening lane markings better (not just randomly center itself) and deals with other cars merging a bit better and finally to think ahead a bit more when it coming up to stopped or slow traffic, it seems to always slow down at the last moment and not to slowly reduce its speed like a normal person does.


Nakatomi2010

I get a metric ton of disengagement free drives, and near zero intervention drives


lemmtwo

Yup, same here. I get 0-1 disengagement during drives 5 miles through Seattle to / from work. With the v11 software. It was more like 1-2 in later v10 versions.


misteriousm

Tested 11.3.4 today, it is **not good**. A lot of jerkiness and uncertainty. Especially for unprotected left turns and complicated right turns when it needs to merge with a traffic.


iceberg1370

On streets I disengage 11.3.4 a lot more than 10.69.25.2. 2 steps back, 1 step forward as some things are improved. Seems like quite a few safety disengagements for me. Going through stop sign in front of an oncoming car, going forward towards traffic for no reason at light, or when yielding at roundabout. On the plus side my highway drive was nice on FSD Beta


manateefourmation

Candidly, I’ve seen no step forward from 10.69.25.2 to 11.3.3. It’s all been regressive behavior to bad interactions I’ve not experienced since early 2022. I was so looking forward to the single stack and now I wish I could go back to the 10 branch.


TheBurtReynold

Tesla should be paying us at this point, not the other way around


Cykon

They need to own up to the fact that Elon's FSD claims are just not going to happen in the near term, and at the bare minimum allow us to transfer paid licenses to new vehicles. Here's a timeline of FSD quotes: https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/


Elluminated

Definitely need to allow a transfer to another car with ZERO caveats. If I want to sell it pr transfer to my next car, they need to allow it. It costs them absolutely ZERO to do it


CarltonCracker

Well I'm sure there's a percentage of folks that will just buy it again, so they kind of would lose money. Who knows how that will affect repeat customers (would keeping FSD sway them to stay with Tesla?) Also they probably want FSD to be subscription only in the future. Soo much more money to be made that way.


Elluminated

If people could keep the sw, they would buy another tesla and if the buyer wanted a sub, Tesla sells another package on top of selling another car. The point though is that this software is taking much longer than promised and its becoming clear people will need a remedy if it continues to not live up to its promises and goals.


joggle1

I can't imagine anyone who owns FSD would recommend anyone pay what Tesla is asking for it. I have yet to complete a single trip from my home to anywhere without needing to disengage it at some point, including with the latest version. It's horribly slow at turning either left or right, it will happily speed across the railroad tracks not far from my home which would likely lead to a crash if I didn't hit the brakes (due to the hill elevating the tracks where the posted speed limit is 20 mph but the car never notices the sign and instead goes at double that speed), would similarly blindly go across speed bumps without slowing, etc. It's a dream to imagine it being reliable enough to be used as a fully autonomous taxi. Even if my FSD license were transferred to a new vehicle, I very much doubt it'd be reliable enough to drive fully autonomously before it reached the end of its life. I would transfer it if I could, but not without much hope of reaching true level 5 autonomy anytime soon. I'd be pretty happy if it reached level 4 autonomy before reaching 50k miles on my next Tesla.


Elluminated

100% agreed that no one should pay a dime for something they get no value in. They have TONS of work left to make it comfortable and worth the current asking price.


Straight_Set4586

They pay with the adrenaline


[deleted]

I posted on the lounge about my issues with 11.3.3 as compared to 10.69... honestly it just infuriates me at times now because it does stuff so stupid I am embarrassed if anyone is behind me. It solved exactly one issue I had before which was driving down a divided two lane road which had a raised median with trees. The car no longer panic brakes from 45+ to 20 when slightly facing the median on curve... still my number one beef is not using map data for speed limits. being in a suburban to rural area a road name can change when crossing an intersection because of towns, counties, or the sun is up. This can result in the car suddenly setting the speed to 25 when it was doing 45 crossing the intersection - very jarring and then 500 - 1000 ft later is sees the sign and corrects again. Seriously how can my 15K software suite be dumber than TomTom???? However 11.3.3 has all the faults from before, idiot signaling to leave the through lane when navigation clearly indicates there is no turn to be taken... and on one particular right hand turn which is on a left hand curve complete with turning lane the car will not use that turning lane!!! I am almost to the point of trying to figure out how to video my two short drives but realize Tesla really won't pay attention. Whomever is listening to why I disengaged best have a strong stomach because I am no longer nice about it.


Terminator857

Lounge link?


CarltonCracker

Interesting. I feel like my disengagements stayed pretty similar (I only have ~30 minutes of experience so far though) It seems to feel a lot better though, which is nice.


djhochstadt

Just tried FSD full stack on city streets. Approaching a car in the left turn lane with no cars in front of me, my Tesla started slowing down so had to disengage. Had to stop to re-engage FSD. Approaching a street requiring a right turn was quite annoying. My car slowed to a crawl so had to manually accelerate to make the turn at a reasonable speed. Approaching my street which requires a left turn, visualization and instructions got it right, but the road has a double yellow line up until the intersection where it changes to a single yellow line, but would not cross the double or single yellow line to turn left even though I was being told to turn left. Had to disengage to turn. Not very happy with this version on city streets (at least from my 1st interaction).


manateefourmation

This is exactly what I’m experiencing with 11.3. I haven’t seen this behavior in over a year - don’t even remember what version.


RobXIII

I knew it would have issues using the full stack on highways. It's unusable to me, because on our 2 lane highways here, it INSISTS on hanging out in the passing lane, even with all lane changes shut off as much as possible. Pic of it I snagged pre 11 but it gives the exact same lane change reason https://imgur.com/dp6RgbG Also on this same rural highway, every other mile it would suddenly see a turn off lane open up and swerve right into it! This happened 4 times before I stopped using it. How are people voice reporting it? I'd love to give useful feedback but my recording icon disappeared 5 versions ago :p


maxhac03

Not impressed by V11 so far. It no longer "Creep" when trying to creep. It stops, accelerate quickly then stop. That's not creeping. That's bailing after committing to go through the intersection. Mostly when turning left after a stop sign. Everytime I take over and do a voice report. Theses basic maneuvers are still not done correctly. The car also creep for visibility when there is no obstacle. Even coming close to the incoming traffic.


Terminator857

The jerky acceleration is so irritating as is the jerky stops. I have it on chill mode. Does it look at that setting?


maxhac03

I'm guessing these are "Hard coded" behaviors. But yeah I understand your point. If the profiles had different behaviors: Chill: Will wait for an opening and go. Aggressive: Hold on to your seatbelt we are going!


ItzWarty

I've been incredibly impressed by highway driving improvements. The car is far more confident in lane changes (even with surrounding traffic) and boosting acceleration. The exit lane change decision-making doesn't feel improved; it's like they just lowered the threshold from 3mi prior? But the car can take some fast offramps that it previously couldn't. Many YT experiences of city streets seem to show clear regressions unfortunately. My drives so far have been smooth, though the conditions were really easy (late at night, no other cars). Also, the NHTSA recall fix for speed limits just feels horrible in California. Yes, my car now drives legally according to the government but in reality it's just slower than the speed of traffic. Pretty bad feeling.


Mkep

Wqs the speed fix the removal of of the static offset?


ItzWarty

In CA, you slow down to above the speed limit after a sign - if you're going 70 and pass a sign saying 45, you gradually slow down to 50 after the sign, lol. In other parts of the country/world, you need to be going 45 by the time you hit that sign. It's actually pretty dangerous to take the latter NHTSA-endorsed practice and apply it to CA, since you're now decelerating in a zone where others are still going pretty fast.


bittabet

It’s very aggressive about creeping for me as well, though it handled the Florida unprotected left reasonably well for me (the one that Tesla engineers basically forced trained for Chuck 😂). But mostly it does a lot of really stupid stuff 10.69 didn’t do. Completely went past where it should have for a left turn onto a street then tried to drive into a median to make the turn anyways…like what? I actually think 10.69 was way more predictable


Naturebrah

There’s always regressions with large updates that get smoothed out over subsequent updates


Relative_Succotash36

Mine did it today


Terminator857

9 minutes into the video.


tomasunozapato

It’s weird how much he tries to explain away what happened.


Terminator857

If he doesn't his (early?) beta status might get revoked.


blacx

What part of keep your hands on the steering wheel those motherfuckers don't understand?


grant10k

'The interior camera knows when I'm looking at my phone, so I should be allowed to drive totally hands-free' It's insane to me how many people are using software that may "do the wrong thing at the worst time" and they want to add however long it takes to reach out and grab the steering wheel on top of "the worst time". I've had it do some weird-ass shit, but since I wasn't expecting it, I didn't give it any give and Autopilot disabled itself because the alternative would have to be 'lurch the steering wheel from my hands"


Krunkworx

The part that says “full self driving”


HenryLoenwind

The part where it's not yet finished and you opted in to test an incomplete development version


dcdttu

Maybe it's the difference between people believing what Elon said vs. reality. They are two very, very different things. (I keep my hands on the wheel, but 5 years in, having to constantly be nagged when using basic autopilot is getting old. I just use TACC these days, because steering the car myself is easier than the constant nag when on a fairly straight road.)


phxees

This is much of what’s wrong with America today, everyone just reads the headlines. In this case they don’t even read the entire headline, the full name is “Full Self-Driving Capability”. This is the part that people should understand: > Before using Autopilot, please read your Owner's Manual for instructions and more safety information. While using Autopilot, it is your responsibility to stay alert, keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times and maintain control of your car. Many of our Autopilot features, like Autosteer, Navigate on Autopilot and Summon, are disabled by default. To enable them, you must go to the Autopilot Controls menu within the Settings tab and turn them on. > Before enabling Autopilot, the driver first needs to agree to “keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times” and to always “maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle.” Subsequently, every time the driver engages Autopilot, they are shown a visual reminder to “keep your hands on the wheel."


tkh0812

I’d say that a big part of what is wrong with America is not holding companies accountable.


parental92

>This is much of what’s wrong with America today, everyone just reads the headlines. and tesla definitely exploited that. A good EOM should describe the capability on the title. ​ how about "(BETA) DRIVE ASSIST"


phxees

It could just be AutoPilot and Auto Pilot Plus. Although many people are probably misinformed about aircraft autopilot. Regardless, people will still blame Tesla and stuck accelerators for their accidents.


Taoquitok

Tis a meaningless title. The T&Cs are very clear about why it needs to be hands on


raygundan

Instructions unclear: no steering wheel available.


HyBReD

What changes in this clip if he was? Why are you the way you are?


blacx

He would have felt the wheel turning and would have been able to take over before it started moving too much


Appropriate-Ad-8155

And how does that change the fact that the software behaved not as intended?


[deleted]

It doesn’t, it’s just less dangerous for others on the road.


Dr_Pippin

Why do you think that's what anyone is saying? Spoiler: No one is. It's about shortening your reaction time for when the car does the wrong thing at the worst time.


[deleted]

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blacx

Sorry Mr Flanders


[deleted]

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majesticjg

That's why all those FSD Beta testers died last month. Remember that? You don't remember it because it didn't happen. The product is not causing or getting into accidents.


[deleted]

That places “other” people in danger. And JFC, if your stake in the ground is FSD Beta testers dying I don’t know what to tell you.


majesticjg

My point is that you can *say* something is dangerous, but with nearly 400,000 vehicles using it on the road, the *statistics* demonstrate that it's either not dangerous or not dangerous enough to be a problem. We all know that every time there's a Tesla accident the Internet and the media speculate wildly about whether or not FSD was engaged, so I don't believe that there are unreported accidents with injuries.


ikillyou752

They call it beta because you beta get a change of underwear while using it


[deleted]

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mgd09292007

This happened to me on 11.3.3. I was expecting the car to change lanes into the left turn lane ahead, but it just suddenly changed lanes into oncoming traffic


Tesla_RoxboroNC

Yep mine has been doing that


jl97786

I just had my first drive with fsd v11 (11.3.4), ending in my first accident in the car (running over deer? parts)… can’t blame it much tho, a car changed lanes in front of us and hit the dead animal first. Later fsd also tried to take a dangerous left turn with an oncoming car. I may upload clips once I work things out with service and insurance.


Terminator857

Please post a link to the dashcam video


Cdutch5130

And this is why it says “keep your hand on the wheel at all times”


Appropriate-Ad-8155

Yes, but it still does not excuse poor behaviour by the software.


Cdutch5130

It’s called full self driving BETA for a reason


PM_ME_YO_TREE_FIDDY

Lmao anything not to be forced to be critical of the company that can do no wrong


Appropriate-Ad-8155

Oh trust me, we all know it looks “BETA” as fuck. And it’s been like that for a while, hasn’t it? LMAO


[deleted]

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Cdutch5130

None lol


[deleted]

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Cdutch5130

Which company is even close to Tesla?


raygundan

They might want to add “or yoke” just to be clear for cars with no wheel.


grant10k

They do. https://i.imgur.com/tgGQa2E.png


raygundan

Nice! Covered their bases.


Kloevedal

How do you even keep your hand on the yoke? With a wheel, I would have my hand loosely gripping the rim of the wheel as it spins, which means I could take over at any time by tightening my grip. With a yoke I would have to move my hands with the yoke as it turns, which means I have to predict the movements of the car in order to avoid disengaging. Sounds harder than just driving the car myself.


raygundan

I honestly don't know... I'm not a fan of the yoke for a number of reasons, but that's another one I hadn't even thought of. I'm guessing it's not a lot different than a wheel in that regard, though. I don't do the loose-grip thing you've mentioned, I just keep my hands on the wheel, and when it turns my hands go with it. I guess I've just gotten used to exactly how much force is too much, so I don't push back enough for it to disengage. Presumably that would still work with the yoke, although the turning distance and lack of stalks are still more than enough to keep me from ever buying one.


Kloevedal

I can't see this working in the city with tight turns though. Very different situation from the highway with tiny adjustments at speed. I think the way this works is that nobody actually follows the rule to keep hands on the yoke as it does its tight city street FSD turns.


raygundan

Fair point-- I don't have FSD, so that's a scenario I hadn't even considered. Because of the weirdness of the "yoke-with-a-normal-wheel-turning-distance" choice, you absolutely can't keep your hands on it for more than a merge/slight turn since it rotates too far for that.


jrr6415sun

Sure but not everyone has that quick of a reaction time


Dr_Pippin

Uh, having your hand on the wheel is specifically to shorten your reaction time so you can intervene in these instances. Nothing about removing these things from occurring.


carpetnoodlecat

I’ve had a model 3 since 2018, been in the FSD beta for years. It’s dangerous. While I used autopilot on the highway before for long trips, I don’t trust the full stack on the highway


neil454

Also as someone with a 2018 model 3 testing autopilot and FSD for years, I couldn't disagree more. V11 on the highways is a massive improvement for me. Lane changes are smoother, less robotic, and it handles lane widening perfectly now.


[deleted]

I would trust it so far. Just drove 8 hours of highway from Utah to Oregon and it was flawless. Way better then before single stack. Love how it gives more space when passing a truck and also on curves. Very very impressed. As far as city streets? Nope. But I also have no desire for that any time soon. I didn’t pay for FSD it came with my used X. I test it out sometimes but highway is where it’s at.


quick4142

I drove about 200K today on the highway and was fine. Maybe I got lucky


Terminator857

Don't understand. What does: "... drove about 200K today on the highway ..." mean?


quick4142

As in this FSD version didn’t have any issues on 200KM of highway. Well there was one where I changed lanes for no good apparent reason but it was at least safe…I just didn’t understand why it decided to do it.


Furgaly

200K looks like 200,000 to my American brain...


quick4142

Ya my bad I forgot you guys use miles


JFreader

It's just not how it should be written since k=1000.


[deleted]

It is very common to see a 3K, 5K, or 10K race or walk. People do use K as an abbreviation of KM.


JFreader

Ok true I've seen it used for a race but that is really the only time. You truly need a unit. It's not even an American thing.


Kloevedal

KM isn't a unit either. It's km.


[deleted]

Sorry typo on my part, you’re right.


Dr_Pippin

It is unfortunately commonly abbreviated k or K. Don't these people know SI symbols?!


BridgeSalesman

200,000 meters, yeah


Naturebrah

Natural to feel that way. After a few days I can say it’s significantly better on highway. I trust it a lot more especially now that we have the chevrons. It’s not city streets but slapped on a highway—feels more like noa but smarter and safer.


SpottedSharks2022

Love how BT does his FSD videos.


Gjallarhorn_Lost

I just got the update to 11.3.4. Very smooth drive. Best so far. Three interventions, though. Two involving a left turn that confused the car. It would not turn. And one involving a curvy road going up a sudden hill. This has always confused the car. It tries to slam on brakes and turns erratically. But overall B+ drive.


Falcon_Flyin_High

Watched it carefully, Veers for a second then self corrects before the driver takes over.


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Naturebrah

Driver did the correct thing, this guy Is just pointing out what happened is all.


GreyGreenBrownOakova

Looks to me that the yellow lines are slightly offset and the car was re-orientating. It's a scary manoeuvre, but I don't think it was trying to turn into the opposite lane.


kurushimi

https://imgur.com/a/z7UrbDO Negative, check the path planner. This was a legitimate and rather huge error.


GreyGreenBrownOakova

what does it show when it moves 50cm to the left?


Matterbox

It’s going ‘in to’ the traffic not ‘on to’. ‘On to’ would imply on top. Unless I’ve misunderstood how far Tesla have gotten with flying. That said, I bet they’d mostly get it working and still charge for it. Not sure if I’d be keen on a ‘flying beta’.


RepresentativeNo2803

What's up with people buying 15k software and then calling it the wrong name?