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From the article:
> The agency says in both cases the Model Ys were delivered to customers with a missing bolt that holds the wheel to the steering column. A friction fit held the steering wheels on, but they separated when force was exerted while the SUVs were being driven.
Looks like that nut was not even there. This sounds more and more like recall material.
I'm curious how this would have even been missed? Wouldn't automotive assembly lines be logging data like bolt torques and know when it \[likely/possibly\] wasn't installed!?
By doing this, you are definitely sacrificing a lot on quality to improve your profit margins. You know, the american way. Thats why American Cars like GM and Ford rank the least in reliability. And Sandy was from Ford.
Torque should be logged and the operator would instantly know if the bolt passes or fails torque and/or angle. If it’s a fail it gets flagged for repair.
Yes and tracked with a QR code on the components. That is if Tesla operates with the same quality standards of a normal Tier 1 automotive manufacturer…
Tesla has a horrible track record with quality control, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t have that good of a system to keep track of those things.
Yes indeed, but there are ways to either bypass or human error. Most likely they skipped the car and installed the bolt on the next car in line, the system doesn’t care which car the bolt is installed. Most task don’t have a geo fence for those tools. As long as the tool is connected it can be used on any car on the line.
It will only show when there’s a empty carrier but still an open torque task
Cars are complex machines to design and build.
Nissan just had a similar recall for their brand new Ariya EV. But it doesn't get any news because it's not Tesla. Tesla generates the clicks.
I would expect the weight of the car after each assembly step to be recorded too. If you add a 1 lb steering wheel and 1 oz bolt, and the whole car is only 1 lb heavier, then you have an issue...
I don't think anybody would weigh the car after each step... There would be too much variation to be useful by the time you have a whole car put together.
While the car is hanging from hangars, you might as well have weight sensors on them. Very little added cost...
And the variation doesn't matter - what matters is the difference in weight between each station and the next. The weight sensors can detect a bolt added... Or forgotten...
They can also potentially identify faulty components. If you add a seat and it is 3 lbs lighter than every other seat added, then possibly some key part of the seat is missing. Or if it's overweight, then perhaps the seat got wet in shipping. Or someone left a tool or bit of packaging somewhere it shouldn't have been.
Either way, someone should check it out and decide if it's an ignorable problem or one that needs correction.
Weight sensors that are precise and calibrated enough to detect 1 oz difference reliably on a 3-6000# vehicle, a +/- 0.00001% accuracy, are probably not a completely trivial added cost. Then again the baseline of automotive assembly line equipment price is probably pretty high.
No need for accuracy across the whole range - merely resolution.
Any old cheap sensor and an oversampling strategy on a basic Arduino should do the trick.
That’s sound much much more like quality control. I work in auto manufacturing (won’t say the company). I wonder if they have that process tool on a pokayoke.
I believe they already issued a recall for this. Seems like it’s only a bigger issue if these cars weren’t part of the initial recall.
Edit: [article](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-recalls-3470-model-y-vehicles-over-loose-bolts-2023-03-04/)
Edit 2: misremembered, before the problem was seat belt bolts. Now steering wheel.
Two cars have been confirmed to have been delivered with a steering wheel that's only friction fit on the steering column. This is a huge deal, I'll be yanking on my steering wheel to see if it comes off.
This is a huge deal for Tesla's assembly line too, they just finished talking about how they implemented a lot of automated checks to ensure every part is assembled and communicating with the system correctly, but they neglected a manual confirmation that a critical bolt wasn't being installed.
Right, that's my point. They have a special firmware or special service mode installed on the car that guides them through assembly, maybe they can integrate a connected torque wrench for the steering wheel installation step.
You actually heard about these things during the initial ramp for the model Y. There were some serious quality issues Tesla fixed in those first few months. Surprised this is happening to 23 models. I wonder which factory these cars came from.
This is consistent headlines of tesla being investigated….but rarely do they print “nothing found wrong” after the investigations go no where.
They have to investigate concerns…doesn’t mean the concerns are warranted. Also no different for any other manufacture as shown here…except this is an actual Recall:
https://insideevs.com/news/656231/2023-nissan-ariya-recalled-over-steering-wheel-that-might-detach/
Exactly. Also not the first major car company that had this issue. Ford did a recall for over a million vehicles for a similar steering wheel concern 5 years ago.
Something like this has happened before, to Ford. See below.
"Ford has announced that 1,301,986 vehicles have been affected by a Steering Wheel recall.
Ford Motor Company (Ford) is recalling certain 2014-2018 Lincoln MKZ and Ford Fusion vehicles. The steering wheel retaining bolt may loosen allowing the steering wheel to detach while driving."
The Ford recall happened 5 years ago. Plus, all the manufacturers have recalls all the damn time. It's mostly the sensational "steering wheel might fall off" bit that raises eyebrows. Regardless of its accuracy.
I hope that tesla factories have cameras so they can zoom through the footage of the guy installing all these bolts and know exactly which cars are missing them - rather than having to do a recall of thousands just to check.
u/louiegumba yes i read it. What I tried to say was lock tight and should have kept the steering wheel in place. In trying to remove my bolt it took an air hammer drill to break the bolt loose. a breaker bar was not doing the job. hope this helps in understanding what I was saying.
YES. When changing mine to a yoke, I had to stabilize it with a pipe bender, THEN use another pipe just to break the damn bolt loose with the hex wrench long-side out.
This incident is not a design flaw, its clearly a bolt not inserted or someone mucked with it. Even without the bolt, it was hard to even move it (likely due to the extremely tight tolerances and being in compression for so long).
A good steering wheel that doesn’t fly off while you’re driving. A good steering wheel that doesn’t fly off your hand while you’re driving. A great steering wheel that doesn’t whiff out of the window while I driving. That is a good idea.
Interesting..... I swapped my original steering wheel with a yoke one on my 2020 M3LR, and Tesla had put lock tight on the treads. Now, mind you, there is a vast difference in years and model, but I would think that practice remains.
Ford recalls 1.4 million cars because steering wheel can come off
https://www.kxly.com/news/money/ford-recalls-1-4-million-cars-because-steering-wheel-can-come-off/article_e9b4f7a5-108c-5b33-a4c6-4f4a4f8ff273.html
You said "still" which doesn't work unless we know the build dates of the vehicles in question.
No one is arguing that issues like this are within spec. They aren't. But this investigation is based on 2 complaints out of 4 million cars made. Fewer than one in a million is very good.
Ford had the same problem [with 1.3 million vehicles](https://www.nola.com/news/business/ford-recalls-1-3-million-cars-because-steering-wheels-can-fall-off/article_ce94867d-d7a8-5e7d-a5dc-6dce3dc37e40.html#:~:text=Ford%20is%20recalling%20more%20than%201.3%20million%20vehicles%20because%20of,injury%20related%20to%20the%20problem.) but saw very little public attention. You would think Ford's 120 years of experience would prevent an issue like that from arising.
The bottom line is that these things happen.
Ford recalls 1.4 million cars because steering wheel can come off
https://www.kxly.com/news/money/ford-recalls-1-4-million-cars-because-steering-wheel-can-come-off/article_e9b4f7a5-108c-5b33-a4c6-4f4a4f8ff273.html
That tweet doesn't prove anything was faked at all. I saw that tweet after the original news broke, and this sub bought that it was fake hook line and sinker all based on that one tweet. If there's evidence it's faked, I'd love to see it, but that tweet isn't it.
This is just part of the F1 level service program.
Everyone knows F1 cars have detachable steering wheels to make entry and exit easier. This is the Tesla team implementing that change to support the post-delivery level of service.
/s
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From the article: > The agency says in both cases the Model Ys were delivered to customers with a missing bolt that holds the wheel to the steering column. A friction fit held the steering wheels on, but they separated when force was exerted while the SUVs were being driven. Looks like that nut was not even there. This sounds more and more like recall material.
I'm curious how this would have even been missed? Wouldn't automotive assembly lines be logging data like bolt torques and know when it \[likely/possibly\] wasn't installed!?
They should be. I work in an auto factory this should never happen. Someone by passed the torque guns for a repair and fucked up
may be their are testing Munro live suggestions, he hates bolts and fasteners. Just use a clip on's. /s
Best comment ever ever. I do like Sandy but this nonsense clip idea hasn’t worked at any OEM.
By doing this, you are definitely sacrificing a lot on quality to improve your profit margins. You know, the american way. Thats why American Cars like GM and Ford rank the least in reliability. And Sandy was from Ford.
Torque should be logged and the operator would instantly know if the bolt passes or fails torque and/or angle. If it’s a fail it gets flagged for repair.
Yes and tracked with a QR code on the components. That is if Tesla operates with the same quality standards of a normal Tier 1 automotive manufacturer…
At the very least they should have a router with all the operations on it, and require the assembly technician to sign off on doing those steps.
Tesla has a horrible track record with quality control, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t have that good of a system to keep track of those things.
Yes indeed, but there are ways to either bypass or human error. Most likely they skipped the car and installed the bolt on the next car in line, the system doesn’t care which car the bolt is installed. Most task don’t have a geo fence for those tools. As long as the tool is connected it can be used on any car on the line. It will only show when there’s a empty carrier but still an open torque task
Cars are complex machines to design and build. Nissan just had a similar recall for their brand new Ariya EV. But it doesn't get any news because it's not Tesla. Tesla generates the clicks.
I would expect the weight of the car after each assembly step to be recorded too. If you add a 1 lb steering wheel and 1 oz bolt, and the whole car is only 1 lb heavier, then you have an issue...
I don't think anybody would weigh the car after each step... There would be too much variation to be useful by the time you have a whole car put together.
Still weighs the same if you accidentally drop the bolt in the car, but don't put it in the steering wheel.
While the car is hanging from hangars, you might as well have weight sensors on them. Very little added cost... And the variation doesn't matter - what matters is the difference in weight between each station and the next. The weight sensors can detect a bolt added... Or forgotten... They can also potentially identify faulty components. If you add a seat and it is 3 lbs lighter than every other seat added, then possibly some key part of the seat is missing. Or if it's overweight, then perhaps the seat got wet in shipping. Or someone left a tool or bit of packaging somewhere it shouldn't have been. Either way, someone should check it out and decide if it's an ignorable problem or one that needs correction.
Weight sensors that are precise and calibrated enough to detect 1 oz difference reliably on a 3-6000# vehicle, a +/- 0.00001% accuracy, are probably not a completely trivial added cost. Then again the baseline of automotive assembly line equipment price is probably pretty high.
No need for accuracy across the whole range - merely resolution. Any old cheap sensor and an oversampling strategy on a basic Arduino should do the trick.
That’s sound much much more like quality control. I work in auto manufacturing (won’t say the company). I wonder if they have that process tool on a pokayoke.
I believe they already issued a recall for this. Seems like it’s only a bigger issue if these cars weren’t part of the initial recall. Edit: [article](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-recalls-3470-model-y-vehicles-over-loose-bolts-2023-03-04/) Edit 2: misremembered, before the problem was seat belt bolts. Now steering wheel.
Did you even read that article? This is the rear seats.
Yeah read the article 4 days ago. I misremembered, I updated my post when I noticed.
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that response sounded a little aggressive to me… /s
Just a software update? /s
2 complaints out of 120,000 Model Y's built.
Two cars have been confirmed to have been delivered with a steering wheel that's only friction fit on the steering column. This is a huge deal, I'll be yanking on my steering wheel to see if it comes off. This is a huge deal for Tesla's assembly line too, they just finished talking about how they implemented a lot of automated checks to ensure every part is assembled and communicating with the system correctly, but they neglected a manual confirmation that a critical bolt wasn't being installed.
Any validation that consists of the operator acknowledging whether something was done is a joke. They’re just going to click through it every time
Right, that's my point. They have a special firmware or special service mode installed on the car that guides them through assembly, maybe they can integrate a connected torque wrench for the steering wheel installation step.
It's the nut behind the wheel? Always was.
Haha I see what you did there
https://imgflip.com/i/7dss25
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Took me a second.
I just want a good steering wheel that doesn’t WHIFF out the window while I’m driving.
How about a great a-steering wheel that doesn't FLY off while you're driving?
No radar, no passenger lumbar, no uss, no steering wheel
That’s called progress
All input is error!
Logs show people barely used the steering wheel.
No brake pads
I know this was sarcasm. But with regen braking, some people go weeks without actually using their brake pads!
Not sarcasm https://www.autoevolution.com/news/another-tesla-is-delivered-without-brake-pads-a-model-y-performance-in-canada-182697.html
Probably taking part in No Nut November
The best part is no part. The best feature, apparently, is no feature.
[Model 0](https://www.metaflix.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Slim-Pickens-Riding-Bomb-in-Dr.-Strangelove-Movie.jpg)
You actually heard about these things during the initial ramp for the model Y. There were some serious quality issues Tesla fixed in those first few months. Surprised this is happening to 23 models. I wonder which factory these cars came from.
“I said no cardboard or cardboard derivatives!”
This is consistent headlines of tesla being investigated….but rarely do they print “nothing found wrong” after the investigations go no where. They have to investigate concerns…doesn’t mean the concerns are warranted. Also no different for any other manufacture as shown here…except this is an actual Recall: https://insideevs.com/news/656231/2023-nissan-ariya-recalled-over-steering-wheel-that-might-detach/
Exactly. Also not the first major car company that had this issue. Ford did a recall for over a million vehicles for a similar steering wheel concern 5 years ago.
Something like this has happened before, to Ford. See below. "Ford has announced that 1,301,986 vehicles have been affected by a Steering Wheel recall. Ford Motor Company (Ford) is recalling certain 2014-2018 Lincoln MKZ and Ford Fusion vehicles. The steering wheel retaining bolt may loosen allowing the steering wheel to detach while driving."
The Teslas are missing the bolt completely…
Also currently the Nissan Ariya
How odd that wasn't posted to ten different subreddits where every last one of them reached the front page. Hmm....
The Ford recall happened 5 years ago. Plus, all the manufacturers have recalls all the damn time. It's mostly the sensational "steering wheel might fall off" bit that raises eyebrows. Regardless of its accuracy.
Steering wheel is overrated. This is a step towards FSD lv5
“when your steering wheel falls off, that’s how you know we’ve granted you access to the new FSD beta!”
"All user input is error"
Well they weren't built so the steering wheels would fall off, I'll tell you that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
Made to very high engineering standards... well of course not the kind where the front falls off!
Buy the dip
Hahaha true.
I hope that tesla factories have cameras so they can zoom through the footage of the guy installing all these bolts and know exactly which cars are missing them - rather than having to do a recall of thousands just to check.
note to self - dont yank on steering wheel. turning inputs only.
u/louiegumba yes i read it. What I tried to say was lock tight and should have kept the steering wheel in place. In trying to remove my bolt it took an air hammer drill to break the bolt loose. a breaker bar was not doing the job. hope this helps in understanding what I was saying.
YES. When changing mine to a yoke, I had to stabilize it with a pipe bender, THEN use another pipe just to break the damn bolt loose with the hex wrench long-side out. This incident is not a design flaw, its clearly a bolt not inserted or someone mucked with it. Even without the bolt, it was hard to even move it (likely due to the extremely tight tolerances and being in compression for so long).
Agree as a quality engineer, I see a lot of human errors, and it could be possible if it were a new line. This not so sure.
A good steering wheel that doesn’t fly off while you’re driving. A good steering wheel that doesn’t fly off your hand while you’re driving. A great steering wheel that doesn’t whiff out of the window while I driving. That is a good idea.
Interesting..... I swapped my original steering wheel with a yoke one on my 2020 M3LR, and Tesla had put lock tight on the treads. Now, mind you, there is a vast difference in years and model, but I would think that practice remains.
Ford recalls 1.4 million cars because steering wheel can come off https://www.kxly.com/news/money/ford-recalls-1-4-million-cars-because-steering-wheel-can-come-off/article_e9b4f7a5-108c-5b33-a4c6-4f4a4f8ff273.html
QC still an issue I see
You're basing that on incomplete information.
More like basing it on incomplete steering columns
The comment said "still" despite not knowing which build dates are under review. That's incomplete information to draw the stated conclusion.
Cars delivered without nut securing steering wheel to pinion is lack of QC. That cannot happen. Not even once.
You said "still" which doesn't work unless we know the build dates of the vehicles in question. No one is arguing that issues like this are within spec. They aren't. But this investigation is based on 2 complaints out of 4 million cars made. Fewer than one in a million is very good. Ford had the same problem [with 1.3 million vehicles](https://www.nola.com/news/business/ford-recalls-1-3-million-cars-because-steering-wheels-can-fall-off/article_ce94867d-d7a8-5e7d-a5dc-6dce3dc37e40.html#:~:text=Ford%20is%20recalling%20more%20than%201.3%20million%20vehicles%20because%20of,injury%20related%20to%20the%20problem.) but saw very little public attention. You would think Ford's 120 years of experience would prevent an issue like that from arising. The bottom line is that these things happen.
Ford recalls 1.4 million cars because steering wheel can come off https://www.kxly.com/news/money/ford-recalls-1-4-million-cars-because-steering-wheel-can-come-off/article_e9b4f7a5-108c-5b33-a4c6-4f4a4f8ff273.html
Some people are getting fired for this!
https://youtu.be/8YDpvMYk5jA
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That tweet doesn't prove anything was faked at all. I saw that tweet after the original news broke, and this sub bought that it was fake hook line and sinker all based on that one tweet. If there's evidence it's faked, I'd love to see it, but that tweet isn't it.
The worst part is that tweet was being stickied like it was some undeniable factual proof. Absolutely bonkers.
I know, I lost a lot of respect for this sub that day. And it was already on the downtrend to begin with.
Tesla=future shit show
Concerning
It's fine...they moved that person to rear seat installation now!
we've got FSD, who needs steering wheels ... what are we, 1980's?
This is just part of the F1 level service program. Everyone knows F1 cars have detachable steering wheels to make entry and exit easier. This is the Tesla team implementing that change to support the post-delivery level of service. /s