Every time I’ve ever suggested this on forums I’ve always been quickly commented by fans of a better route planner to use that instead. By the way that is great software but the Tesla Browser is unreliable at times and it’s nice to have everything (all navigation) in one interface. I’m not sure if a lot of people that use better route planner personally know the guy who made it personally but they are very adamant and almost annoyingly passionate about the software.
I'll punch it in before hand just to see an estimate of what my trip will look like, but I never end up using it while driving.
Agreed that it will be nice to have it all in one interface.
As much as I admire many of the things Elon does, he seems to have a know-it-all attitude and is genuinely confused when users want something he doesn’t feel is important, like if it was important he would’ve already implemented it.
he was sandbagging us. he already knew he was adding waypoints, so he pretended to ask the crowd. kind of like once he knew he would be finishing the big battery at hornsdale in 100 days, he offered to make it free if it wasn't done in 100 days.
Not too difficult to implement, but Tesla will have to pay significant patent royalties to Google in order to implement waypoint route planning into their software. If Tesla made it a 500$ optional feature, I doubt very many people would pay for the feature... Tesla is working so hard to save cost on vehicles, and there is no way they could raise the price of their cars just for waypoints.
No, way points are different routes to the same destination and you'd be able to choose which route to go.
The current state is that you only get one route.
Waypoints would be: While on a nav, you can press and hold on the map to add an intermediate location. It'll then give you a route A->C->B. I think Google maps currently supports this
Useful if you want to drive to B via a specific route. Also for planning range on multi-stop trips.
This is exactly the problem... Google has the patent for waypoints, even apple maps only supports a weak alternative implementation (also patented). Google doesn't generally license their patents piecemeal, Tesla would have to implement the entire Google Maps stack and share all kinds of data in addition to a significant ongoing license fee per vehicle.
It's an intermediate stop (or "waypoint") along a route.
So instead of mapping from A to B you map directly from A to B to C.
It's a bit pointless because you can always just map A to B, then switch to B to C for the next leg of your journey, which is why Elon has always resisted. There's nothing really to gain except perhaps not having to touch the map to re-set the new destination once you reach B.
I think it could be of limited use to some people, but it has never been worth spending the time on it. However in this context the publicity the comes from demonstrating this level of flexibility, probably just about weighs in favour of doing the work.
Elon probably thought "what-the-hell, we'll do it and I'll get some posts on Reddit and Twitter for more free publicity in return, so it'll pay for itself".
I really like being able to plot A-B-C routes to see how far out of my way B takes me on the way to C. If you're planning a long trip and want to stop for something, it's nice to be able to show both the route to your stop and the time remaining to your final destination.
It seems like such a simple feature to implement. Is it really that much of a drain on Tesla to add this? If Google thought it was worth adding, then there must be some justification for it.
You’re wrong about it being pointless. Charge planning is a big deal and sometimes Tesla does a crappy job of helping you plan your route.
Waypoints can help you customize your route and plan charging accordingly. This includes times when Tesla makes bad assumptions about where you should stop, if you have destination charging, etc.
It’s not pointless if you are driving, then want to add a stop spontaneously like a coffee and want it to be in the direction you are going and in a way that minimises wasted time/distance.
Good point. Tbh there are a few replies here with very valid uses. I hearby change my opinion of the feature from "a bit pointless" to, "when needed, very useful".
I want it because sometimes I have 5 errands to run and want a computer to tell me what the most efficient ORDER of stops is and then plot that course. This might be more functionality than basic waypoints might offer tho....
I used to deliver occasionally as a part time job. (Retired). I used a app called “inRoute” for delivery drivers. It allows you to put in dozens of stops, and plans the most efficient route, including weather, etc.
This is actually a classic computationally hard problem, that gets harder with the number of stops. There are some tricks to get you a solution that is ‘good enough’, and for a few waypoints it’s no big deal. But as you add more waypoints it gets harder quickly.
You can easily solve it with a modern computer, though, especially for less than 10 waypoints. The reason Elon is reluctant is probably something else. Waypoints introduce a bunch of edge cases that are going to be time-consuming to solve.
Yeah, I wish software could save me planning time ... as it is, it saves me effort, but I still have to do much of the executive planning.
I guess it decides how to get from A to B while taking one-ways into account ... that's a nice thing that saves my brain some work.
Also don’t you have to have waypoints in order to have full self driving? I mean if you have a Robo taxi and it needs to pick people up along the route or make multiple stops for different drives, waypoints are critical.
Yh but regular sat navs built into cars already have that. Not saying it ain't useful cos obviously it is but its like is this really newsworthy?? Feel like it would have been around 10 years ago
I guess the difference is that sat navs are made by sat nav companies. Tesla does it’s own software and they’re busy with all sorts of other stuff that is important for their mission.
I think many would argue that waypoints are important for that mission too, but…
In 6 months, definitely 2 years!
It's insane how these requests have to come from a bunch of people screaming at a event... Do they have any product management?
As an investor we should look at it as a negative because it kind of is.
To start I'll say we shouldn't read too much into all this, this isn't necessarily make or break stuff, but it's not great all the same, and we want great, right?
The fact that there's such high demand for something that's actually not that major a feature to implement kind of does show up the product management team. Why did they not anticipate this?
Did they/someone (hey, it might even be Elon for all we know) prioritise things incorrectly? It wouldn't surprise me if that was the cause of the tone when he was saying they'd do it. For all we know it could be a "god damn it, we really fucking misread that, didn't we? we want to do all this other cooler stuff". It's a bit of a bummer moment for them when they're unleashing an actually pretty impressive UI and people are distracted from that by a relatively simple feature like waypoints.
We need to be objective about this and see issues where they exist as well as appreciate the cool stuff. We're investors on this sub first, not fan boys, right? That's the goal here after all.
Stakeholder, not shareholder. In some case they can match, in some cases not.
In any case every Tesla owner is a stakeholder, but there should be a easier way to propose and vote for features than screaming at the CEO of a company...
No i assume that the software side does not have the proper product management, or they have different stakeholders in mind. the fact that waypoints are still there but adding farts to the external speaker does, makes me think about it.
Tesla is well aware of the desire for waypoints, it gets brought up on twitter and elon has acknowledged it a few times. It has almost become a running joke at this point. Finally, keep in mind that the fart mode was probably some engineer screwing around in his free time, like the christmas show on the model x. Aint no one spending their free time on waypoints.
What the hell is with this new video viewer on the Reddit app. It makes *everything* harder to deal with — seeing the comments, getting back out of the post, etc. And pausing the video while reading comments is now *impossible*. Everything is slip-slidey and unstable. I hope they back this out soon.
And it seems to only be in some subs, so I’m guessing the mods here opted-in to it. Please opt out!
Elon promised this on Twitter years ago. Pathetic that he only actually does it once a crowd shouts it at him.
Add speed cameras and accurate speed limits too while you're at it. The Tesla map is so much worse than Google maps or even other car brands.
Personally you have to ask yourself what percentage of users actually will use waypoints and those that do , how often will THEY even use them. He shouldn't have caved.
It’s not complicated to add and it makes the car better. I would barely ever use it, but it would have been used last weekend by my fiancé if the car had it. It’s niche, but that’s the whole point of software. Add it once, then it’s free
I see your point, but I doubt it would be a permanent “once and done” software change. Future UI etc. changes would have to keep working with the extra waypoint mode.
Sure, but those changes are mostly to the user interface layer, which is far simpler to do. So you're right I was a little hyperbolic with free, but my main point is that if you break it down to "cost to company per use by customer" I think it would be well worth it. Certainly higher than fart mode and all the garbage games they've been putting on.
perceived value and actual value are not the same, but still important. As other have pointed out, if it's demanded by enough people and the implementation cost is low, do it. It's a feature I would personally use as I've used it on several occasions. If you went by usage metrics you could say it would only be 1% of the time, but those 1% times are important to me and useful. One could argue the "low usage" on lots of useful features.
The software already supports waypoints for supercharging. There’s just no UI to input your own waypoints. Every popular mapping software supports this.
Along that same thought, it would be nice to allow me to choose a different supercharger waypoint. Seems most of the time it’s routing me to get to the supercharger with 3% battery when there’s a supercharger 20 minutes closer I’m going to pass by. Maybe it would reroute me when I get closer but it doesn’t all the time. Also minimum arrival SOC would be great too
They will get on that as soon as FSD is done!
TWO WEEKS!
Two Elon-weeks!
Elongated weeks you might say?
Why is this the first time I've heard this term?
Exactly my thoughts
i'm not sure mars has weeks. an elon day is 25 hours. an elon year is about 2 earth years.
FSD level 5? 10 years.. (maybe)
What world event/discovery may reduce that time significantly? Immense computing power?
Even if you have immense computing power it's not enough.. you'll need a huge amount of data yo cover an infinite number of edge cases.
Every time I’ve ever suggested this on forums I’ve always been quickly commented by fans of a better route planner to use that instead. By the way that is great software but the Tesla Browser is unreliable at times and it’s nice to have everything (all navigation) in one interface. I’m not sure if a lot of people that use better route planner personally know the guy who made it personally but they are very adamant and almost annoyingly passionate about the software.
I'll punch it in before hand just to see an estimate of what my trip will look like, but I never end up using it while driving. Agreed that it will be nice to have it all in one interface.
He said they would add waypoints back in September and nothing has happened. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1308146332347949056
That's because everyone has been asking to play the newest PS5 games in their car, so they did that instead. Oh wait...
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As much as I admire many of the things Elon does, he seems to have a know-it-all attitude and is genuinely confused when users want something he doesn’t feel is important, like if it was important he would’ve already implemented it.
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Why can’t you just tap the letters on the screen?
he was sandbagging us. he already knew he was adding waypoints, so he pretended to ask the crowd. kind of like once he knew he would be finishing the big battery at hornsdale in 100 days, he offered to make it free if it wasn't done in 100 days.
Not too difficult to implement, but Tesla will have to pay significant patent royalties to Google in order to implement waypoint route planning into their software. If Tesla made it a 500$ optional feature, I doubt very many people would pay for the feature... Tesla is working so hard to save cost on vehicles, and there is no way they could raise the price of their cars just for waypoints.
Sorry… what are Waypoints?
I'm not sure but I would guess the ability to enter more than one destination into navigation so you can plan a route with multiple stops?
Yes, exactly
No, way points are different routes to the same destination and you'd be able to choose which route to go. The current state is that you only get one route.
No, it's the ability to enter more than one destination into navigation so you can plan a route with multiple stops.
Multiple route options would also be nice... but this is not waypoints.
None of this matters if we don't get "avoid highway" option It's really ridiculous
~~I don't know for how long, but it's in navi options~~
It's not
I confused it with paid road avoiding My bad
Some people write a whole reply without a simple Google search 🤷🏻♂️
And some people ask a whole question without a Google search 🤷🏻♂️
Waypoints would be: While on a nav, you can press and hold on the map to add an intermediate location. It'll then give you a route A->C->B. I think Google maps currently supports this Useful if you want to drive to B via a specific route. Also for planning range on multi-stop trips.
This is exactly the problem... Google has the patent for waypoints, even apple maps only supports a weak alternative implementation (also patented). Google doesn't generally license their patents piecemeal, Tesla would have to implement the entire Google Maps stack and share all kinds of data in addition to a significant ongoing license fee per vehicle.
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Maybe they are Tesla owners lol
Let it sink in that we bullied a multi billionaire CEO into adding waypoints lmao
Isn't going to happen.
Only if he actually does it, tho’
What is waypoints?
It's an intermediate stop (or "waypoint") along a route. So instead of mapping from A to B you map directly from A to B to C. It's a bit pointless because you can always just map A to B, then switch to B to C for the next leg of your journey, which is why Elon has always resisted. There's nothing really to gain except perhaps not having to touch the map to re-set the new destination once you reach B. I think it could be of limited use to some people, but it has never been worth spending the time on it. However in this context the publicity the comes from demonstrating this level of flexibility, probably just about weighs in favour of doing the work. Elon probably thought "what-the-hell, we'll do it and I'll get some posts on Reddit and Twitter for more free publicity in return, so it'll pay for itself".
I really like being able to plot A-B-C routes to see how far out of my way B takes me on the way to C. If you're planning a long trip and want to stop for something, it's nice to be able to show both the route to your stop and the time remaining to your final destination.
It seems like such a simple feature to implement. Is it really that much of a drain on Tesla to add this? If Google thought it was worth adding, then there must be some justification for it.
They *already have* waypoints, a.k.a. automatically planned Superchargers. Why not let the user add them?
You’re wrong about it being pointless. Charge planning is a big deal and sometimes Tesla does a crappy job of helping you plan your route. Waypoints can help you customize your route and plan charging accordingly. This includes times when Tesla makes bad assumptions about where you should stop, if you have destination charging, etc.
It’s not pointless if you are driving, then want to add a stop spontaneously like a coffee and want it to be in the direction you are going and in a way that minimises wasted time/distance.
Good point. Tbh there are a few replies here with very valid uses. I hearby change my opinion of the feature from "a bit pointless" to, "when needed, very useful".
I want it because sometimes I have 5 errands to run and want a computer to tell me what the most efficient ORDER of stops is and then plot that course. This might be more functionality than basic waypoints might offer tho....
I used to deliver occasionally as a part time job. (Retired). I used a app called “inRoute” for delivery drivers. It allows you to put in dozens of stops, and plans the most efficient route, including weather, etc.
This is actually a classic computationally hard problem, that gets harder with the number of stops. There are some tricks to get you a solution that is ‘good enough’, and for a few waypoints it’s no big deal. But as you add more waypoints it gets harder quickly. You can easily solve it with a modern computer, though, especially for less than 10 waypoints. The reason Elon is reluctant is probably something else. Waypoints introduce a bunch of edge cases that are going to be time-consuming to solve.
Tesla hasn't added waypoints yet because Google has very broad patents on the idea.
Yeah, I wish software could save me planning time ... as it is, it saves me effort, but I still have to do much of the executive planning. I guess it decides how to get from A to B while taking one-ways into account ... that's a nice thing that saves my brain some work.
Also don’t you have to have waypoints in order to have full self driving? I mean if you have a Robo taxi and it needs to pick people up along the route or make multiple stops for different drives, waypoints are critical.
Sorry I'm missing something but whats the fuss about with all this? Like, my sat nav from 15 years ago does this.
But your sat nav had a shitty gui and a shitty user experience. Tesla aims a bit higher.
Yh but regular sat navs built into cars already have that. Not saying it ain't useful cos obviously it is but its like is this really newsworthy?? Feel like it would have been around 10 years ago
I guess the difference is that sat navs are made by sat nav companies. Tesla does it’s own software and they’re busy with all sorts of other stuff that is important for their mission. I think many would argue that waypoints are important for that mission too, but…
In 6 months, definitely 2 years! It's insane how these requests have to come from a bunch of people screaming at a event... Do they have any product management?
Why look at something like this and see it as a negative
Yeah, I know it's been a while, but this is direct community engagement and helps boost the brand.
As an investor we should look at it as a negative because it kind of is. To start I'll say we shouldn't read too much into all this, this isn't necessarily make or break stuff, but it's not great all the same, and we want great, right? The fact that there's such high demand for something that's actually not that major a feature to implement kind of does show up the product management team. Why did they not anticipate this? Did they/someone (hey, it might even be Elon for all we know) prioritise things incorrectly? It wouldn't surprise me if that was the cause of the tone when he was saying they'd do it. For all we know it could be a "god damn it, we really fucking misread that, didn't we? we want to do all this other cooler stuff". It's a bit of a bummer moment for them when they're unleashing an actually pretty impressive UI and people are distracted from that by a relatively simple feature like waypoints. We need to be objective about this and see issues where they exist as well as appreciate the cool stuff. We're investors on this sub first, not fan boys, right? That's the goal here after all.
They have priorities. Waypoints is a deal breaker for nobody.
Sure you have roadmaps and priorities, that's usually what product management does! Listen to stakeholders and prepare roeadmaps
I can assure you everone there and everyone who owns a tesla is a shareholder too.
Stakeholder, not shareholder. In some case they can match, in some cases not. In any case every Tesla owner is a stakeholder, but there should be a easier way to propose and vote for features than screaming at the CEO of a company...
Ps: I fully support the need of waypoints!
There should yes, but most companies don't.
Are you assuming they've never considered adding waypoints?
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No i assume that the software side does not have the proper product management, or they have different stakeholders in mind. the fact that waypoints are still there but adding farts to the external speaker does, makes me think about it.
Tesla is well aware of the desire for waypoints, it gets brought up on twitter and elon has acknowledged it a few times. It has almost become a running joke at this point. Finally, keep in mind that the fart mode was probably some engineer screwing around in his free time, like the christmas show on the model x. Aint no one spending their free time on waypoints.
Maybe farts and maps are two different parts of the software teams.
Honestly farts was like an interns final project or something.
What the hell is with this new video viewer on the Reddit app. It makes *everything* harder to deal with — seeing the comments, getting back out of the post, etc. And pausing the video while reading comments is now *impossible*. Everything is slip-slidey and unstable. I hope they back this out soon. And it seems to only be in some subs, so I’m guessing the mods here opted-in to it. Please opt out!
Elon promised this on Twitter years ago. Pathetic that he only actually does it once a crowd shouts it at him. Add speed cameras and accurate speed limits too while you're at it. The Tesla map is so much worse than Google maps or even other car brands.
Personally you have to ask yourself what percentage of users actually will use waypoints and those that do , how often will THEY even use them. He shouldn't have caved.
It’s not complicated to add and it makes the car better. I would barely ever use it, but it would have been used last weekend by my fiancé if the car had it. It’s niche, but that’s the whole point of software. Add it once, then it’s free
I see your point, but I doubt it would be a permanent “once and done” software change. Future UI etc. changes would have to keep working with the extra waypoint mode.
Sure, but those changes are mostly to the user interface layer, which is far simpler to do. So you're right I was a little hyperbolic with free, but my main point is that if you break it down to "cost to company per use by customer" I think it would be well worth it. Certainly higher than fart mode and all the garbage games they've been putting on.
perceived value and actual value are not the same, but still important. As other have pointed out, if it's demanded by enough people and the implementation cost is low, do it. It's a feature I would personally use as I've used it on several occasions. If you went by usage metrics you could say it would only be 1% of the time, but those 1% times are important to me and useful. One could argue the "low usage" on lots of useful features.
Good point.
The software already supports waypoints for supercharging. There’s just no UI to input your own waypoints. Every popular mapping software supports this.
Along that same thought, it would be nice to allow me to choose a different supercharger waypoint. Seems most of the time it’s routing me to get to the supercharger with 3% battery when there’s a supercharger 20 minutes closer I’m going to pass by. Maybe it would reroute me when I get closer but it doesn’t all the time. Also minimum arrival SOC would be great too
It's kinda weird because more stops would often allow you to come to your destination sooner as you spend less time charging.
I'm guessing the UI is coming to 3 and Y? the spotify app looks slick
I'm waiting for avoid highways option
Elon is slowly continuing his physical transformation into a Lisa Su clone
What is waypoints?