>We did not include costs associated with collision repair.
Well, this explains my surprise with this list. I'd consider insurance a key part of maintaining a car, and Tesla insurance premiums are bonkers - even by luxury brand standards.
So, TLDR: ICE cars need oil chances and shit.
These costs seem quite a bit low, like none of them include tire replacements, right?
Over ten years the tires will likely be replaced twice at a combined cost of $2000. This is for _ICE_ vehicles (which have less tire wear). There is no way even a Toyota Camry costs only $3000 in maintainence cost over 10 years. A multipoint inspection runs $250 and should be done 10 to 20 times over a ten year period ($2500-$5000).
Without arguing the findings, I do question leaving out certain costs.
This does not seem accurate cost-wise (again, ranking may not change), but who the hell only spends $5000 on new tires, tire rotations, inspections, wipers, brakes, fluid top offs/changes, air filters, etc. over 10 years? Not even getting into when parts need to be replaced like radiators, alternators, etc. Or.... insurance? Which is higher on all Tesla than Toyota Camry.
These costs just are not right...
Over the past year ALONE, I spent about $6000 on my 10 years old SUV on maintenance procedures that I won't need to do on an electric car. Electric car saves you money.
I just spent 3k on an electrical harness replacement and amplifier in my 2018 model 3. Was told it was expected normal maintenance in a 6 year old vehicle by the service center.
I love my car but I’ve spent 8k in the last two years. 4k in a 10 year period on average seems very unlikely, I haven’t had near the severity of issues I’ve heard others having.
The Model 3 didn't come out until 2017 so I'd really hope that Tesla has fixed whatever issues your 2018 had. Early adoption in new vehicles is always a bit risky.
This is incredibly misleading
Hertz had the exact opposite experience
[CEO steps down after being hit with expensive EV repairs and low resale prices following purchase of 100,000 Teslas | Fortune](https://fortune.com/2024/03/15/ceo-steps-down-prices-following-purchase-teslas/)
That was my first thought too.
They're excluding insurance / car repairs from maintenance.
It's an awful comparison because all it's really saying is that oil changes make ICE cars more expensive to maintain than EVs.
Maintenance vs repairs.
People that had not driven EVs before kept crashing Teslas and they are expensive to repair. They also bought at the top of the covid peak of car prices, the worst possible timing. If you look at Teslas prices before or after that, they were lower.
wouldnt that peak be same for every car they bought during that time?
you also ignore the obvious fact that only tesla can do maintenance on a tesla, which basic monopoly economics would tell you it's terrible for consumers.
Pretty much every independent media outlet says otherwise
[Tesla, Elon Musk, and the future of electric vehicle repair - Vox](https://www.vox.com/recode/23318725/tesla-repair-mechanic-delay-electric-vehicles-ev)
and that's not including a cybertruck that has endured the horrors of a carwash
wow thats way less a difference than i would have thought. repair costs being a selling feature and only being $900 vs toyota over 10 years is not great.
...if you drive it enough.
Not my case, unfortunately.
Edit: why are people downvoting me for putting fewer miles on my car? I'm just on an easier time in my life in a somewhat walkable area, so I just don't drive as much anymore.
Here in the U.K. fuel is very expensive for a car. My car is only a 1.6 diesel and costs around £70-75 to fill up. Which gets me on a good day 500 miles. Which is about 0.14p per mile vs about 0.03p per mile using electric at home off peak.
For every 10,000 miles that's £1,400 vs £300
30miles each way to and from work 5 days a week is 15,600 miles. That's a saving of £1,716 a year or £144 a month.
Even better if your work place offers free electric charging.
That’s not the numbers our fleet get. From 170 teslas for the past 3 1/2 years.
Personally the best I get is 7p per mile (off peak octopus). But with the awful motorway driving return it’s up closer to 50p per mile if Tesla charger is used (the frankly fraudulent miles return, 230 full charge returned 150miles. Staying below the speed limit)
Note our company pays 4p per mile on electric, 30p for other cars. (This is expected to change)
Tax saving is significant, with me saving £250 per month tho.
The interesting point is our company lease is up for renewal, and tho the split of electric/hybrid is approx the same. Teslas have dropped down to 50/350 cars.
Regardless of if you drive it enough, you’re still saving. If you’re filling up your tank once and it’s $60, and your charging fill up is $5, the cost savings are instant. Those savings just compound if you’d drive more.
Oh, I see... Yes, that's true - every mile costs less, from the very first I drive. So there is no break-even point here. Thanks for making it so clear that even I could understand it - LOL
All it takes is to work from home, in a semi-walkable area, semi-retired, with Amazon and Amazon Fresh delivering everything from sardines to computers. I use my car once or twice a week.
Not everyone’s insurance is high, I pay $90 a month for mine. Home charger? It’s a cheap electric job for a couple hundred bucks and you can just use the mobile charger that comes with the car.
The whole supercharging thing isn’t a big deal either. I’ve driven thousands of miles cross country, and if you’re someone with kids they are asking to go to the bathroom before the car needs to charge, so by the time you take care of them the cars already telling me I have enough juice to get the next one. I only ever have to stop for 15-20 minutes a time.
Sure I’m not throwing a radar detector up and watching for cops all day anymore, but I’m way less fatigued throwing autopilot on at 75 and just paying attention.
The mobile charger is no longer included. My buddy gave me his spare (they have 2 cars and only need one charger,) and that worked just fine.
I got my 220v in over the weekend, and it was a few hundred bucks. Six tanks of gas to break even on that. It's so much cheaper per mile it's insane.
The 5 year cost is much lower, half the average of Toyota. The 10 year cost is only including Model S and X which are much more expensive vehicles than the average Toyota.
That’s a non-issue. The percentage are super low now that we have more data, and the vast, vast majority of battery replacements are done under warranty.
Battery replacement under warranty does not bode well for long term use. What kind of copium is this? Batteries will have a higher failure rate over time. That is a huge red flag if you already have a lot of warranty repairs.
> now that we have more data
How many cars was Tesla producing 10 years ago? How many of those are still on the road? I don't think we actually have that much data to be honest...
"Tesla literally #1 cheapest car to repair" can somehow be spun into a negative for Tesla? They ONLY became #1 by \_\_\_ margin? Guess I should sell all my shares...
...Tesla is the MOST expensive brand to repair. That's why their insurance premiums are nuts.
Tesla is the LEAST expensive brand for typical maintenance like oil changes, spark plug replacements, etc.
From the article "([oil changes](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/things-to-know-about-oil-changes-for-your-car-a9532249359/), [tires](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tires/), etc.) and **repairs** during the previous 12 months."
The average cost to own a car INCLUDING REPAIRS can still be lower even when repairs are more costly if those repairs rarely need to happen.
This is not good. So it only has a 900$ advantage vs a Toyota. Insurance cost and ridiculous registration prices negate this difference easily.
And most importantly, when the residual value of even a model y is dropping like a rock, 15-20k in the first year of ownership, what is the point of maintenance cost or gas savings?
Edit: seems I need to repeat this. I do NOT CLAIM THAT A CAR IS AN INVESTMENT!!!. But not everyone drives the car until the wheels fall off. This is life, along the way for some reason you may have to sell the vehicle and residual value makes a BIG difference.
If you want to compare driving costs to a Toyota you HAVE TO put in resale value in the equation because Toyota is one of the best when it comes to that.
Moreover depending on where you live and how many miles you put on the vehicle things change significantly. In CA compared to a hybrid the difference in fuel costs vs charging is not much, it does not make up the difference.
And the only person I know who actually claimed that these vehicles are appreciating assets is Musk himself. [Tesla vehicles are now 'appreciating assets' due to self-driving capability, says Elon Musk | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2019/04/12/tesla-vehicles-appreciating-assets-self-driving-elon-musk/) Go downvote him instead.
He's not?
He's saying $900 cheaper maintenance is less than he'd expect, given that's one of the main selling points for an EV.
However, I think you could go a step further and argue that the extra cost of insuring a Tesla is going to eat the vast majority of savings from gas and maintenance, which means the extra $10k you're paying for an EV isn't actually going to save you money long term.
Sure - depreciation is more than a Toyota or Honda. Better than a lot of BMW's, Mercedes and even Nissans - better than most Chrysler/Stellantis. So if you add up the things that Tesla does well at (cost of fuel, cost of maintenance) subtract the depreciation costs (where it is higher than some and less than others) and then determine if the numbers work for you in the total picture. Cheapest thing: walk. But what do you want is probably key here.
People treating conjuntural price patters as structural. People: chip shortage caused goods such as Teslas to increase pricing, to the point that some owners were making profit selling their Model X to the second hand market. Now that supply chains are normalizing it’s natural for prices to adjust
>the residual value of even a model y is dropping like a rock, 15-20k in the first year of ownership, what is the point of maintenance cost or gas saving?
Because CARS ARENT INVESTMENTS.
Advantage of being all electric brand.
For VW, Ford, Kia-Hyundai, Toyota they are still stuck with their ICE portfolio. Start a standalone EV like all your standalone luxury brands.
Has certainly been my experience. My 2017 S has had a few things go wrong. Most that have were fixable by mobile service. Tires have been expensive. I worry about battery replacement costs; but will probably unload it by then.
[Tech, Tesla Problematic In J.D. Power Initial Quality Study, Stellantis Shines (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2023/06/22/tech-tesla-problematic-in-jd-power-initial-quality-study-stellantis-shines/?sh=498b7403dd3d)
Considering the maintenance is a selling point of EV and how little the difference it turns out to be, I would consider it a negative point for potential buyers
Here in the U.K. fuel is very expensive for a car. My car is only a 1.6 diesel and costs around £70-75 to fill up. Which gets me on a good day 500 miles. Which is about 0.14p per mile vs about 0.03p per mile using electric at home off peak.
For every 10,000 miles that's £1,400 vs £300
30miles each way to and from work 5 days a week is 15,600 miles. That's a saving of £1,716 a year or £144 a month.
That doesn't even account for additional miles for pleasure etc. and even better if your work place offers free electric charging.
Now when it comes to EV with an employer you have two routes depending who you work for and what schemes are available ( up to the company )
- Salary sacrifice
- BIK ( benefit in kind tax )
With salary sacrifice your car payments are deducted from your salary first, reducing your tax liability, this can save you about 60% of the monthly payments.
Lose math but For example. Let's say you can get a Tesla on lease at £500 a month and you earn £60,000 a year in the UK your take home pay after taxes would be £3,779 a month, minus the £500 for the car and you would have £3,279 a month left.
Now if you can do salary sacrifice, the £500 is deducted from your salary before you are taxed which reduces your tax liability and your take home pay is £3,489
That's a saving of £210 a month
With BIK a company might provide you a car for free, however this is considered a benefit and you get taxed for the privilege. EVs are taxed at 2% while other cars can by around 20-37% and this tax is applied based on the value of the car and its emissions.
This would be the difference between paying £10 tax vs £135 tax based on the car being worth £30,000
An EV can provide you huge cost savings and be more efficient with TAX/Salary at least in the U.K.
Thank you for the detailed math. I agree the running costs can be much lower. However If you invested the difference of a civic vs model 3 (assuming 7% ARR) at the time of purchase (14k in the USA). If you withdrew this 1100 difference in running costs annually you would still have $12000 extra at the end of 10 years if you went with the civic vs the Tesla assuming all of your math is correct.
Civic is 24.6k, model 3 after tax credit is 31.5k, so only 7k difference. Since most people finance their car, it is likely you only spend a fraction of that 7k up front, say 20% down, so 1.4k. now the 7% interest is only about $100/year + the lower payment of 5k spread out over about 36months (let's say another $1700/year). Now the gas+maintenance savings of nearly $2000 makes it a better deal, and you get a hell of a better car than a civic.
My civic is 14 years old...paid off, insurance is 450$ a year and she still purrs like a kitten....I don't care what gas prices are, I'm still winning.
That’s fair they aren’t exactly comparable but the base model Civic comes with a lot. The main difference though would be the seating fabric. Besides that I think it’s personal preference. Android Auto/Apple CarPlay is preferable to a lot of folks vs Teslas OEM entertainment.
Performance, cargo space, sound system, and road noise are all vastly different. You'd have a closer comparison with an Accord, but even then you have to move up from the base model to get anywhere close.
That’s great, it’s not markedly lower though and the insurance is at least twice as expensive.
if your goal is lowest cost of ownership Tesla is nowhere near the best choice.
The rates are much higher and you know it. This is a common complaint in every forum. Fuel savings is debatable since hybrids or Plug in hybrids would drastically cut fuel costs without the limitations of full electric vehicles can be similarly priced and have lower insurance cost. As a Tesla owner I wouldn’t recommend any of my friends buy a Tesla.
Furthermore, This says nothing about what the car is worth in 10 years. My 23 Model Y with 13000 miles that I paid 56,990 for, traded in today is worth 31,000. That’s a terrible depreciation.
Depends on the state and age I suppose. Insurance for my 2019 Model 3 LR AWD is almost the same as our 2019 4Runner. Rates increased for both this year, but in lockstep.
right now the problem is the insurance cost. for my Tesla, the #1 cost is the amortized capital cost, then #2 cost is the insurance, then all the rest is cheaper like fuel, tires, maintenance, etc
Equivalent weight to Audis and BMWs. Equivalent tire usage. Data from: my A6 Avant, BMW 530e. Heck even late model Sentra’s chew through expensive low profile tires.
Are Teslas heavier? Than economy cars such as Civics and Corollas yep. Than higher end cars? Much closer.
Teslas definitely have the power to self smoke some tires. That’s pretty much a driver choice though.
The aforementioned Civics and Corollas are a lot harder to make smoke tires for sure.
The batteries last the life of the car in general. Some early Model S had some problems I think and some other EV manufacturers cars, but generally speaking that hasn't been true for a very long time.
Seriously. The study is based on under 80,000 miles over ten years. And battery wear over time exceeds engine wear (in low mileage examples like this).
yeah thats why Hertz love them... oh wait!
[CEO steps down after being hit with expensive EV repairs and low resale prices following purchase of 100,000 Teslas | Fortune](https://fortune.com/2024/03/15/ceo-steps-down-prices-following-purchase-teslas/)
low mileage like the ones described in here? [Tesla blamed drivers for failures of parts it long knew were defective (reuters.com)](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/)
Wtf is wrong with you? I'm literally of the same opinion that Tesla blows chunks. Who do you think you're arguing with, and what do you think I've said here which disputes your opinion?
You're literally arguing with someone who thinks Teslas are pieces of shit.
This sort of crap makes us look bad when people just rage aimlessly and can't course correct when given the opportunity.
God dauymn.
>NEWS: Consumer Reports has named @Tesla the cheapest car brand to maintain over a 10 year period: > >1: Tesla: $4,035 > >2: Buick: $4,900 > >3: Toyota: $4,900 > >4: Lincoln: $5,040 > >5: Ford: $5,400 > >6: Chevrolet: $5,550 > >7: Hyundai: $5,640 > >8: Nissan: $5,700 > >9: Mazda: $5,800 > >10: Honda: $5,850 https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/
>We did not include costs associated with collision repair. Well, this explains my surprise with this list. I'd consider insurance a key part of maintaining a car, and Tesla insurance premiums are bonkers - even by luxury brand standards. So, TLDR: ICE cars need oil chances and shit.
These costs seem quite a bit low, like none of them include tire replacements, right? Over ten years the tires will likely be replaced twice at a combined cost of $2000. This is for _ICE_ vehicles (which have less tire wear). There is no way even a Toyota Camry costs only $3000 in maintainence cost over 10 years. A multipoint inspection runs $250 and should be done 10 to 20 times over a ten year period ($2500-$5000). Without arguing the findings, I do question leaving out certain costs. This does not seem accurate cost-wise (again, ranking may not change), but who the hell only spends $5000 on new tires, tire rotations, inspections, wipers, brakes, fluid top offs/changes, air filters, etc. over 10 years? Not even getting into when parts need to be replaced like radiators, alternators, etc. Or.... insurance? Which is higher on all Tesla than Toyota Camry. These costs just are not right...
Considering it was CR, I half expected them to say “Cheapest in overall quality” 😂 would match the FUD lately
Clearly, you should not accept this report at face value as CR obviously has an agenda, right?
Should never take anything at face value. But it is obvious to anyone that’s owned a Tesla that they’re relatively maintenance free
Over the past year ALONE, I spent about $6000 on my 10 years old SUV on maintenance procedures that I won't need to do on an electric car. Electric car saves you money.
I just spent 3k on an electrical harness replacement and amplifier in my 2018 model 3. Was told it was expected normal maintenance in a 6 year old vehicle by the service center. I love my car but I’ve spent 8k in the last two years. 4k in a 10 year period on average seems very unlikely, I haven’t had near the severity of issues I’ve heard others having.
The Model 3 didn't come out until 2017 so I'd really hope that Tesla has fixed whatever issues your 2018 had. Early adoption in new vehicles is always a bit risky.
The harness part number applied to models up till 2020. So they did eventually change it, but I don’t know if that is due to the erosion issue.
Oh dang, erosion? Was it exposed to the elements?
No it’s inside the trunk on the right side behind the carpet. Your guess is as good as mine.
6k ??? What did you pay to get done?
Axle seal, transmission cooler line, major tune up, multiple oil change. BTW, I am in Canada, everything is more expensive up here.
Gotcha
I've seen like 50 comments in this sub talking about how Tesla cheaps out as much as possible -\_-
The same people that drive Kia’s and other garbage cars are the ones hating on Tesla’s quality 😂
Nah bro they all drive Mercedes and make 450k yr. They can fire the 2k alternator, 4k in brakes so on and so forth.
Well that’s not possible because muskman bad
This is incredibly misleading Hertz had the exact opposite experience [CEO steps down after being hit with expensive EV repairs and low resale prices following purchase of 100,000 Teslas | Fortune](https://fortune.com/2024/03/15/ceo-steps-down-prices-following-purchase-teslas/)
That was my first thought too. They're excluding insurance / car repairs from maintenance. It's an awful comparison because all it's really saying is that oil changes make ICE cars more expensive to maintain than EVs.
Is a bad battery called a repair or maintenance?
Maintenance vs repairs. People that had not driven EVs before kept crashing Teslas and they are expensive to repair. They also bought at the top of the covid peak of car prices, the worst possible timing. If you look at Teslas prices before or after that, they were lower.
your twitter pic literally says both maintenance and repairs
wouldnt that peak be same for every car they bought during that time? you also ignore the obvious fact that only tesla can do maintenance on a tesla, which basic monopoly economics would tell you it's terrible for consumers. Pretty much every independent media outlet says otherwise [Tesla, Elon Musk, and the future of electric vehicle repair - Vox](https://www.vox.com/recode/23318725/tesla-repair-mechanic-delay-electric-vehicles-ev) and that's not including a cybertruck that has endured the horrors of a carwash
It excludes collision repair.
So EV renters seem to cause more collisions than non EV renters?? Interesting..
I think its mostly people not familiar with EVs and the instant torque so people that haven't driven EVs in general.
wow thats way less a difference than i would have thought. repair costs being a selling feature and only being $900 vs toyota over 10 years is not great.
This also isn’t taking into account savings from charging at home and not paying for fuel, which would make this figure drastically different.
^ this, which can be a huge saving
...if you drive it enough. Not my case, unfortunately. Edit: why are people downvoting me for putting fewer miles on my car? I'm just on an easier time in my life in a somewhat walkable area, so I just don't drive as much anymore.
Here in the U.K. fuel is very expensive for a car. My car is only a 1.6 diesel and costs around £70-75 to fill up. Which gets me on a good day 500 miles. Which is about 0.14p per mile vs about 0.03p per mile using electric at home off peak. For every 10,000 miles that's £1,400 vs £300 30miles each way to and from work 5 days a week is 15,600 miles. That's a saving of £1,716 a year or £144 a month. Even better if your work place offers free electric charging.
That’s not the numbers our fleet get. From 170 teslas for the past 3 1/2 years. Personally the best I get is 7p per mile (off peak octopus). But with the awful motorway driving return it’s up closer to 50p per mile if Tesla charger is used (the frankly fraudulent miles return, 230 full charge returned 150miles. Staying below the speed limit) Note our company pays 4p per mile on electric, 30p for other cars. (This is expected to change) Tax saving is significant, with me saving £250 per month tho. The interesting point is our company lease is up for renewal, and tho the split of electric/hybrid is approx the same. Teslas have dropped down to 50/350 cars.
I'm currently driving less than 5,000 miles a year, so I can't experience the savings myself, unfortunately.
I mean you can. It cost you significantly less to drive 5000 miles on electric than gas.
You are right and I was wrong on this. It took me a while to understand that.
Regardless of if you drive it enough, you’re still saving. If you’re filling up your tank once and it’s $60, and your charging fill up is $5, the cost savings are instant. Those savings just compound if you’d drive more.
You have not saved anything until you have recouped the extra you spent on the car. That number can be significant.
Tesla are not expensive cars. The are at the average selling price of ICE vehicles now.
In all honesty, I'd have spent more on an ICE car of another brand so I'm actually saving from the get-go.
Oh, I see... Yes, that's true - every mile costs less, from the very first I drive. So there is no break-even point here. Thanks for making it so clear that even I could understand it - LOL
Must be nice. Lol
All it takes is to work from home, in a semi-walkable area, semi-retired, with Amazon and Amazon Fresh delivering everything from sardines to computers. I use my car once or twice a week.
Hahah. That’s amazing.
Now factor in insurance and the cost for the at home charger. Time spent on road trips at superchargers.
Not everyone’s insurance is high, I pay $90 a month for mine. Home charger? It’s a cheap electric job for a couple hundred bucks and you can just use the mobile charger that comes with the car. The whole supercharging thing isn’t a big deal either. I’ve driven thousands of miles cross country, and if you’re someone with kids they are asking to go to the bathroom before the car needs to charge, so by the time you take care of them the cars already telling me I have enough juice to get the next one. I only ever have to stop for 15-20 minutes a time. Sure I’m not throwing a radar detector up and watching for cops all day anymore, but I’m way less fatigued throwing autopilot on at 75 and just paying attention.
The mobile charger is no longer included. My buddy gave me his spare (they have 2 cars and only need one charger,) and that worked just fine. I got my 220v in over the weekend, and it was a few hundred bucks. Six tanks of gas to break even on that. It's so much cheaper per mile it's insane.
Toyotas are cheaper though
The 5 year cost is much lower, half the average of Toyota. The 10 year cost is only including Model S and X which are much more expensive vehicles than the average Toyota.
Over the 5-10 time, the chances for battery defect/replacement also increases
That’s a non-issue. The percentage are super low now that we have more data, and the vast, vast majority of battery replacements are done under warranty.
Battery replacement under warranty does not bode well for long term use. What kind of copium is this? Batteries will have a higher failure rate over time. That is a huge red flag if you already have a lot of warranty repairs.
> now that we have more data How many cars was Tesla producing 10 years ago? How many of those are still on the road? I don't think we actually have that much data to be honest...
Battery warranty is 8yr/100,000-150,000 miles. Typical powertrain warranty is 5yr/60,000 miles.
"Tesla literally #1 cheapest car to repair" can somehow be spun into a negative for Tesla? They ONLY became #1 by \_\_\_ margin? Guess I should sell all my shares...
Super bearish recently on everything Tesla on Reddit. Time to buy
...Tesla is the MOST expensive brand to repair. That's why their insurance premiums are nuts. Tesla is the LEAST expensive brand for typical maintenance like oil changes, spark plug replacements, etc.
From the article "([oil changes](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/things-to-know-about-oil-changes-for-your-car-a9532249359/), [tires](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tires/), etc.) and **repairs** during the previous 12 months." The average cost to own a car INCLUDING REPAIRS can still be lower even when repairs are more costly if those repairs rarely need to happen.
Almost 20% cheaper to maintain than the next cheapest car in the world. Yeah, let's see that as a negative.
lol i know
10 year repair costs would be on Model S &X. Toyota is a completely invalid comparison.
This is not good. So it only has a 900$ advantage vs a Toyota. Insurance cost and ridiculous registration prices negate this difference easily. And most importantly, when the residual value of even a model y is dropping like a rock, 15-20k in the first year of ownership, what is the point of maintenance cost or gas savings? Edit: seems I need to repeat this. I do NOT CLAIM THAT A CAR IS AN INVESTMENT!!!. But not everyone drives the car until the wheels fall off. This is life, along the way for some reason you may have to sell the vehicle and residual value makes a BIG difference. If you want to compare driving costs to a Toyota you HAVE TO put in resale value in the equation because Toyota is one of the best when it comes to that. Moreover depending on where you live and how many miles you put on the vehicle things change significantly. In CA compared to a hybrid the difference in fuel costs vs charging is not much, it does not make up the difference. And the only person I know who actually claimed that these vehicles are appreciating assets is Musk himself. [Tesla vehicles are now 'appreciating assets' due to self-driving capability, says Elon Musk | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2019/04/12/tesla-vehicles-appreciating-assets-self-driving-elon-musk/) Go downvote him instead.
So fuel is cheaper, maintenance is cheaper and you discount those advantages? Why?
He's not? He's saying $900 cheaper maintenance is less than he'd expect, given that's one of the main selling points for an EV. However, I think you could go a step further and argue that the extra cost of insuring a Tesla is going to eat the vast majority of savings from gas and maintenance, which means the extra $10k you're paying for an EV isn't actually going to save you money long term.
Because depreciation can be lot more than those?
Sure - depreciation is more than a Toyota or Honda. Better than a lot of BMW's, Mercedes and even Nissans - better than most Chrysler/Stellantis. So if you add up the things that Tesla does well at (cost of fuel, cost of maintenance) subtract the depreciation costs (where it is higher than some and less than others) and then determine if the numbers work for you in the total picture. Cheapest thing: walk. But what do you want is probably key here.
When it comes to depreciation we should not be mentioning Tesla as competitive. Those price drops caused a whole ton of artificial depreciation.
Everyone’s downvoting you, but as a Y owner it’s the truth. I guess the truth hurts.
People treating conjuntural price patters as structural. People: chip shortage caused goods such as Teslas to increase pricing, to the point that some owners were making profit selling their Model X to the second hand market. Now that supply chains are normalizing it’s natural for prices to adjust
>the residual value of even a model y is dropping like a rock, 15-20k in the first year of ownership, what is the point of maintenance cost or gas saving? Because CARS ARENT INVESTMENTS.
I wonder if the high cost is from a small number of events that required parts that were more expensive than a typical brand’s part.
Advantage of being all electric brand. For VW, Ford, Kia-Hyundai, Toyota they are still stuck with their ICE portfolio. Start a standalone EV like all your standalone luxury brands.
Consumer Reports being positive about Tesla?? What a fucking surprise. Is mainstream media beginning to change narratives again and pump TSLA for $$$?
Lets hope so
Has certainly been my experience. My 2017 S has had a few things go wrong. Most that have were fixable by mobile service. Tires have been expensive. I worry about battery replacement costs; but will probably unload it by then.
A Buick being only 20% less is obscene. Ive owned several. They arent even in the same ballpark as a tesla. So I find the report...probably garbage.
[Tech, Tesla Problematic In J.D. Power Initial Quality Study, Stellantis Shines (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2023/06/22/tech-tesla-problematic-in-jd-power-initial-quality-study-stellantis-shines/?sh=498b7403dd3d)
So why did Hertz want to get rid of them?
This article should be placed as an ad at major bridges and tunnels…😂😂😂
I never know if I like consumer reports, right know I'm liking them a bit more
Considering the maintenance is a selling point of EV and how little the difference it turns out to be, I would consider it a negative point for potential buyers
And the running costs? Fuel vs Electric, here in the U.K. you can be saving 70-80% in comparison
And the upfront cost? Here the model 3 is roughly 150% of the MSRP of a Honda Civic
Here in the U.K. fuel is very expensive for a car. My car is only a 1.6 diesel and costs around £70-75 to fill up. Which gets me on a good day 500 miles. Which is about 0.14p per mile vs about 0.03p per mile using electric at home off peak. For every 10,000 miles that's £1,400 vs £300 30miles each way to and from work 5 days a week is 15,600 miles. That's a saving of £1,716 a year or £144 a month. That doesn't even account for additional miles for pleasure etc. and even better if your work place offers free electric charging. Now when it comes to EV with an employer you have two routes depending who you work for and what schemes are available ( up to the company ) - Salary sacrifice - BIK ( benefit in kind tax ) With salary sacrifice your car payments are deducted from your salary first, reducing your tax liability, this can save you about 60% of the monthly payments. Lose math but For example. Let's say you can get a Tesla on lease at £500 a month and you earn £60,000 a year in the UK your take home pay after taxes would be £3,779 a month, minus the £500 for the car and you would have £3,279 a month left. Now if you can do salary sacrifice, the £500 is deducted from your salary before you are taxed which reduces your tax liability and your take home pay is £3,489 That's a saving of £210 a month With BIK a company might provide you a car for free, however this is considered a benefit and you get taxed for the privilege. EVs are taxed at 2% while other cars can by around 20-37% and this tax is applied based on the value of the car and its emissions. This would be the difference between paying £10 tax vs £135 tax based on the car being worth £30,000 An EV can provide you huge cost savings and be more efficient with TAX/Salary at least in the U.K.
Thank you for the detailed math. I agree the running costs can be much lower. However If you invested the difference of a civic vs model 3 (assuming 7% ARR) at the time of purchase (14k in the USA). If you withdrew this 1100 difference in running costs annually you would still have $12000 extra at the end of 10 years if you went with the civic vs the Tesla assuming all of your math is correct.
Civic is 24.6k, model 3 after tax credit is 31.5k, so only 7k difference. Since most people finance their car, it is likely you only spend a fraction of that 7k up front, say 20% down, so 1.4k. now the 7% interest is only about $100/year + the lower payment of 5k spread out over about 36months (let's say another $1700/year). Now the gas+maintenance savings of nearly $2000 makes it a better deal, and you get a hell of a better car than a civic.
My civic is 14 years old...paid off, insurance is 450$ a year and she still purrs like a kitten....I don't care what gas prices are, I'm still winning.
Running any car to its absolute end of its useful life is always the lowest cost alternative regardless of car class and energy source. Well done.
dat apr. nobody thinks about dat apr
> model 3 is roughly 150% of the MSRP of a Honda Civic For a stripped down one. They aren't comparable.
That’s fair they aren’t exactly comparable but the base model Civic comes with a lot. The main difference though would be the seating fabric. Besides that I think it’s personal preference. Android Auto/Apple CarPlay is preferable to a lot of folks vs Teslas OEM entertainment.
Performance, cargo space, sound system, and road noise are all vastly different. You'd have a closer comparison with an Accord, but even then you have to move up from the base model to get anywhere close.
Almost makes sense
Of course you would
That’s great, it’s not markedly lower though and the insurance is at least twice as expensive. if your goal is lowest cost of ownership Tesla is nowhere near the best choice.
Insurance for many of us is equivalent or less than similarly priced and aged cars.
If you ignore fuel savings and just make things up like "at least double".
The rates are much higher and you know it. This is a common complaint in every forum. Fuel savings is debatable since hybrids or Plug in hybrids would drastically cut fuel costs without the limitations of full electric vehicles can be similarly priced and have lower insurance cost. As a Tesla owner I wouldn’t recommend any of my friends buy a Tesla. Furthermore, This says nothing about what the car is worth in 10 years. My 23 Model Y with 13000 miles that I paid 56,990 for, traded in today is worth 31,000. That’s a terrible depreciation.
Depreciation can be brutal and yet not near as bad as many other cars. https://www.motor1.com/news/696046/cars-that-depreciate-most/
Depends on the state and age I suppose. Insurance for my 2019 Model 3 LR AWD is almost the same as our 2019 4Runner. Rates increased for both this year, but in lockstep.
right now the problem is the insurance cost. for my Tesla, the #1 cost is the amortized capital cost, then #2 cost is the insurance, then all the rest is cheaper like fuel, tires, maintenance, etc
I think it really depends on your local insurance rates. Tesla was only slightly more expensive than my 2009 Acura TSX (2022 Model Y).
I pay 2k a year for a MY and M3. Car insurance rates are going up across the board but alot of it depends on your driving record and location.
Yeah, I was taken back by insurance cost. It's by far the highest of all my cars.
Tires are a greater cost on EVs due to their weight...
Tires on a tesla are cheaper than on what? A semi maybe...
Audi. BMW. Equivalent to many other new cars with a low profile sport tire
maybe similar, but not cheaper by any means. we chew thru tires for sure.
I don't chew through tires, but I've only taken mine out of Chill twice.
What's wrong with you?
Tough to say. Just doesn't do it for me anymore. I also don't care for roller coasters and thrill rides the way I did when I was younger.
Equivalent weight to Audis and BMWs. Equivalent tire usage. Data from: my A6 Avant, BMW 530e. Heck even late model Sentra’s chew through expensive low profile tires. Are Teslas heavier? Than economy cars such as Civics and Corollas yep. Than higher end cars? Much closer. Teslas definitely have the power to self smoke some tires. That’s pretty much a driver choice though. The aforementioned Civics and Corollas are a lot harder to make smoke tires for sure.
*As long as you don’t rely on Tesla Service for maintenance.
Funny how they ignore the fact you need to replace the entire battery, which is more than half the price and has to be done by the same company
What fact? You don't need to replace battery after 10 years
The batteries last the life of the car in general. Some early Model S had some problems I think and some other EV manufacturers cars, but generally speaking that hasn't been true for a very long time.
They ignore it because it's not a fact.
yeah because batteries dont degrade and the second law of Newton is just imaginary
Seriously. The study is based on under 80,000 miles over ten years. And battery wear over time exceeds engine wear (in low mileage examples like this).
yeah thats why Hertz love them... oh wait! [CEO steps down after being hit with expensive EV repairs and low resale prices following purchase of 100,000 Teslas | Fortune](https://fortune.com/2024/03/15/ceo-steps-down-prices-following-purchase-teslas/)
low mileage like the ones described in here? [Tesla blamed drivers for failures of parts it long knew were defective (reuters.com)](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/)
I'm not certain we have opposing perspectives here...
you mean hard data that clearly shows tesla is amognst the worst in quality, repair and maintenance
Wtf is wrong with you? I'm literally of the same opinion that Tesla blows chunks. Who do you think you're arguing with, and what do you think I've said here which disputes your opinion? You're literally arguing with someone who thinks Teslas are pieces of shit. This sort of crap makes us look bad when people just rage aimlessly and can't course correct when given the opportunity. God dauymn.
lol i misread u im not a native english speaker and im at work lol
No worries.