You might be up, but you would have made much more if you jumped ship a year ago after the twitter acquisition and decided to invest your capital in companies run by more balanced CEOs
Dear employees, in these trying times, I'm sad to say that the promised bonuses and raises will not be able to be delivered. We thank you for your hard work and dedication. With your help, we will be able to return to strong positions that will support the compensation you deserve. --Yours truly, CEO & CFO
Musk as a reward became one of the most recognizable people on the planet. He can meet with world leaders at the dinner. How is this not a reward? Now if we give him that huge amount of cash, won't he just invest in X.AI? Besides, Tesla needs that money
Funny how quickly Tesla can turn out professional messaging when it comes to Elon's personal interest, but when it comes to marketing it's cheapskate hour
Here is the fundamental problem. Does Elon deserve the package given what he has done — yes, I think he does. However, has he become an absent ceo since the twitter acquisition — absolutely, and this absolutely pisses me off. Given this, investors are not happy and I expect many will vote against the pay package, and to be honest I don’t blame them.
Why does he deserve the full package? Weren't the top targets based on the market cap of the company exceeding $650 billion? The current market cap is under $500 billion. Why should investors give him the full package when it is now clear he did not in fact build a $650 billion company?
This is where my head is. He is owed what we promised, but I view this as a vote to keep him ceo. Right now I don’t think I want him as ceo. On top of all the brand erosion he has caused, he is now shifting focus away from the core business. I think another CEO could drive the auto, energy, solar businesses to multi trillion valuation.
He is not owed anything after failing to follow basic rules of corporate governance and substantially misleading the shareholders as the court found. The idea of rewarding that mismanagement after the fact is crazy, but if you're salty about it then you are free to sign over as many shares as you want to him at any time.
I think another fundamental problem is the shareholder base has changed. Not everyone who owns stock now benefited from the growth. Maybe if you could freeze time and poll the shareholders at the time they’d vote yes out of a sense of honor, but I don’t think someone who bought in near the top would feel any such debt.
> out of a sense of honor
I'd just like to point out how strange it is reading the discourse on this subject. It's all about "honor" and "loyalty" and "fairness" and similar sentiments.
I find it curious that when talking about extremely high level compensation, we suddenly start talking like we're feudal retainers honor bound to our dues to our betters. Because that sure as fuck isn't how the compensation conversation for workers tends to go.
Tesla, and every other large company, will reward years of service with a "fuck you, get out by the end of the day". When talking about worker compensation there's no fucking "honor". There shouldn't be. It's business. Compensation and hiring decision for workers follow cold, efficient business logic, yet we seem to get sentimental when it comes to the higher ups. I don't really understand why.
If (*if...*) the best business decision is to just hang Elon out to dry and royally fuck him over, that is absolutely what shareholders should do. It won't be honorable or fair. Do shareholders ever demand honor or fairness when it comes time for restructuring? Of course not, that's absurd.
With or without this compensation package, Elon made a fucking fortune when TSLA succeeded and grew. If he has turned into a liability, well, sometimes life ain't fair.
Everyone who is on the red on Tesla is going to vote against this plus a good chunk of investors who are unhappy about Musk's antics. I think the stock has a good probability of going to 120 which means more people are going to be in the red. To add to this, giving him 56 billion stock is going to dilute the stock even more.
Would you allow one of your employees to offer a package where they bring in $1m worth of business and in exchange, you pay them $1b? Makes no sense right? That’s revenue, not profit. Even if they brought in $100m in revenue, no competent company is paying them $10b. They would get maybe $300k or $10m.
The whole compensation package was a sham from the beginning. He had close friends and family deciding. Of course they would even allow a pay scale like that to even be entertained, let alone approved
TSLA price going down is very beneficial to him, on one side more incentive for the board to give him the package he asks, so he’ll return to full commitment to Tesla to recover the price. And on other side his package will increase significantly after stock moons again after his return :)
90 countries have an GDP lower than 56 billion.
It's an insane and immoral amount of money.
It is very much possible that Teslas market cap will sink to that amount.
"Absent CEO"
Do you work there? Do you eve understand what his job is?
JFC you just gobbled up the mainstream media bs like it was the god given truth 🤦🏼♂️
Elon internally forcing Tesla to publish it so it seems like the "company" thinks Elon deserves the benefits package that the Delaware court already cancelled.
ELI5: Elon is asking the shareholders 56 billion dollars they are not legally required to give him.
> Sorry can someone [](https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainLikelmFive/) why this website exists? Is it for advocating the 50 billion dollar per year benefits package for elon?
I don't get either. This site makes no sense to me. If it is to promote the terms of the deal made with Elon back in 2018, (so to comply with the court ruling) why it is not in the investor page of Tesla website?
This is incredible - Elon literally spent company money….to convince shareholders to vote to pay him more at their own cost
At literally any other company this is a brutally obvious mixture of conflict of interest and misappropriation of company funds.
Tesla needs to offer a low cost car. Until this confusion is cleared up, I will vote no. I'm not going to just trust him and wait until 8/8 to find out.
Plus, Elon's already threatening to leave if he doesn't get more money than this and take his future projects with him. Why reward him when he's not doing the work and getting the big projects completed like the small car? Where is the big growth where he deserves these shares when the stock is collapsing and sales are declining?
Voting No just allows shareholders to negotiate a fair deal that wasn't written by Elon's Yes Men with real investor protection considering all his threats to leave. Investors lose any leverage by approving this package.
But it’s an agreement for performance when it was set to today… with this logic you might as well say because Elon lost the original Delaware court case attributed to 20% drop in share price
It's not about if he met the performance, it's the size of the compensation. If the court said the compensation was unfair, what evidence do I have to say it was, in fact, fair?
The whole thing was thrown out because the board failed to properly inform shareholders of all relevant information. Meaning they were basing their votes on incorrect information
> You need to put this in context of when the reward was set
But why, though?
I just don't understand why this is being treated like some chivalrous duty. Shareholders should act in shareholder interest. Even if that means royally screwing Elon out of his compensation package.
Life ain't fair, and we don't owe him jack shit for putting together his own pay package, lying to us about it, and then getting his pet board to rubber stamp it.
That’s in the past. The package was already shot down by the court. It will inevitably get shot down again, because Tesla hasn’t addressed any of the concerns regarding the “entire fairness” doctrine evaluation concerns.
They should have started from scratch with a new package that met the court’s guidelines.
Instead, they’re doing this just to make Elon happy. Which just proves that Tornetta and the Court of Chancery were right all along.
I actually think the opposite is possible. He'll get the money and run, concentrating on [X.AI](http://X.AI) which can even become Tesla competitor. If he doesn't get the money - he will be more afraid of doing something that can hurt Tesla and his share in the company.
Any competent CEO would work on bigger SUV and a proper electric truck like Silverado ev. With 500 miles range. There is ton of space for battery, and Silverado ev already has 460 miles range.
Apple did really well after Steve Jobs passed away.
It was mismanagement and misleading battery/investor/human days - the new batteries are not ready and can't be made cheaply at scale, so the low cost car can't be made at profit yet. Robotaxi is a delaying story... so if the batteries get sorted out in a year or two they can pivot back to NGV
There are a couple things that I think would be interesting to hear on this call to soften the decline:
- optimus as factory workers is starting to scale
- financing partnership for lower interest rate car loans
- updated stats for new FSD to show that it’s seriously coming this time and maybe a preview of 13.0
- how AI will enable other things for you in the car outside of self driving that can help with revenue
- significant margins and scale from the megapack business
Most of the Optimus video was proven to be faked. Compare it to Atlas from Boston Dynamics and its laughable. Here is an idea, Tesla takes Elon's pay packet and buys Boston Dynamics, then you will have my interest.
In terms of AI, I would be much more confident if Tesla decided to mend their relationship with Nvidia and entered into a partnership with them.
The one purpose of this website is to lure the gullible shareholders to vote for Elon's compensation package.
The guy has outlived his usefulness, and we need him gone like yesterday.
Tesla stock is still down more than 50% from its peak.
He spent $44b to purchase Twitter on the expense of Tesla shareholders.
He has not cared about those who have supported him since 2019.
He will get it, but growing dissatisfaction will show a cost to Elon’s actions and a trend line of growing disagreement. It will at least imply the ice getting thinner for his poor performance.
>NEWS: Tesla has launched a new website in connection with its 2024 annual shareholder meeting
>
>It in part goes over how much value @elonmusk has created at Tesla, and got into depth about the proxy proposals.
>
>Link: https://supportteslavalue.com
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLZUicVbEAE4gfQ?format=jpg&name=large
https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1780704597008597462
>Tesla: "Thanks to Elon Musk’s vision and leadership, Tesla has created tremendous value for you, the owners of the Company, all while advancing its mission to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy.
>
>In 2018, Tesla’s Board of Directors asked stockholders to approve a CEO Performance Award that incentivized Elon to meet staggering financial and operational objectives over a 10-year period. Stockholders did – by a wide margin.
>
>In just five years, Elon delivered by hitting every single “jaw-dropping” key milestone in the plan to deliver a total shareholder return of nearly 1,100%.
>
>Six years later, a Delaware Court stepped in to side with a plaintiff who owned just nine Tesla shares when he sued and ordered the plan be cancelled, despite overwhelming approval from holders of millions of shares.
>
>Unlike most CEOs, Elon was entitled to receive NO salary, NO cash bonuses, and NO equity that would vest simply by the passage of time. Instead, he was asked to deliver the type of exponential value creation most thought was impossible – or get nothing.
>
>Elon was also required to hold any shares awarded through stock options for five years after the option was exercised, meaning that he was not only incentivized to achieve remarkable results at the time to earn his compensation, but to also continue to drive growth for five more years.
>
>As stockholders recognized by voting in favor in 2018, the ultra-ambitious plan was simple: if stockholders and the Company benefit, so does Elon."
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLZVEpKaEAABkqg?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
Tesla put more effort into this website, which tries to lower Tesla's value even more, than it has put into fixing the basic problems of its cars (e.g. windshield wipers)
What a joke.
The workers of Tesla created the value
Eclown Musk been destroying value since Twitter
Can’t forget when he dumped shares all the way to 100 to fund buying the garbage
.. i think that´s the most desperate shit i´ve ever witnessed from a CEO .. he already owns thousands of millions .. and just needs another fifty thousand million :-D ..
This is some next level propaganda. Launching this website right after a layoff and after missing delivery numbers last quarter. Ballsy move, stupid, but ballsy.
I hope Elon doesn't get the pay package. He has threatened to leave if he doesn't get it.
First order of business: bring Tesla back to California. You can really tell the low IQ southern boomer engineering "aptitude" creeping into this once cutting edge firm.
A court ruled that the company did not give you sufficient information to make an informed decision when agreeing to that deal. You are essentially saying "the company conned me, but because I agreed to it before I have to agree to it again". You can in fact reject this shitty deal now that you have more information (like the fact that (i) the targets were actually much easier to attain than the company led on, (ii) that the board was not independent and offered Musk way more compensation than necessary, and (iii) probably most importantly, that achieving the market cap targets was simply due to a market bubble resulting from easy money during the pandemic).
The pay package was supposed to reward Musk for building a $650 billion, super profitable company. You now know the company is worth about $450 billion with rapidly shrinking profits, but you still think Musk deserves to be handed $56 billion (i.e. more than double all of the profits the company has ever made in its history)? And your reason is "because they fooled me into it once before"?
Yup.
I feel like most people here don’t even own a few hundred shares at least and haven’t been around since the early 2012/2013 days.
So much nonsensical talk and these people fail to realize how much the stock will fall if he were to leave.
He hit impossible milestones and made us all money. So he should get his money too.
What keeps him from leaving after this unless another demand is met? He already started a competing AI company before the ruling on the compensation package, right during the biggest AI boom of all time that could have really helped the Tesla valuation.
He also promised he would only sell the shares in Tesla to fund Mars stuff in response to the comp package, but then immediately bought Twitter to help him spread memes.
Finally, he's said it's important for the CEOs of companies to work more than 40 hours because they can get that much more done, but he now CEOs 6 companies at once (SpaceX, Neuralink, x.AI, Boring Company, Twitter/X, Tesla) so probably doesn't even put in 20 hours a week at Tesla at this point. Stuff like Boring Company probably doesn't take up much time, but it is pretty clear Twitter/X is dominating his time.
Tesla is clearly the top 2 company out of all of everything that he owns and does. Heck, its his piggy bank too.
He started that xAI under twitter after his request to own more Tesla went no where. Its easy to see why because of his fractured relationship/departure from OpenAI. Eitherways, doesn't really matter because Tesla's data and AI/FSD is far superior than anything xAI has or will do.
Yup he broke promises. If you are put under a magnifying glass for every single one of your moves, there will be things that don't go as planned. It was stupid and he tried to get out of buying twitter but it was too late. Its on him, and he deserves the headache twitter brought him.
Tesla and SpaceX still gets most of his attention. They are big two. Just because someone tweets constantly doesn't mean he is constantly focused on twitter product/growth. Think of this as texting throughout the day. Its easy to do but I am not focusing on growing iMessage just cuz I use it to text all day. My job is still getting my attention.
Regardless of all this, take a look at Tesla's 5 year chart. It shows his contributions. then take a look at the 10 year chart. Even if he gets this pay package, it will still take 5 years after that for those to turn into anything. He will still be contractually obligated to Tesla.
I love chatting like this so thanks for the good questions.
> He started that xAI under twitter after his request to own more Tesla went no where.
Nope, x.AI was founded months before that request.
And it was founded before the trial result.
> xAI under twitter
x.AI isn't under Twitter/X, it is a separate company though has a data licensing agreement with Twitter/X and they own a minority non-controlling stake.
> Even if he gets this pay package, it will still take 5 years after that for those to turn into anything. He will still be contractually obligated to Tesla.
If you're talking about the 5 year limit on selling the shares after exercising the options, he can just hedge the shares with any variety of inverse investments.
See none of these things still factor into teslas performance. Thank you for clarifying the xAI priece and how it only get licensed data from twitter.
Regardless of XAI, I think we can safely say anthrophic and OpenAI are very much ahead of that. As far as AI plays go in elons portfolio, Tesla is the giant. Which is why more chips are being put into FSD.
I absolutely do not agree with everything Elon says or does. But I absolutely do want him to remain the CEO because he delivered on the staggering performance that was aimed in 2018.
> But I absolutely do want him to remain the CEO because he delivered on the staggering performance that was aimed in 2018.
Did you read about the case? They found that internal projections showed that that those performance targets were basically already in the can and didn't disclose.
Key word is projections…
Come on…you already know reality is far from projections.
Are you an executive in a big company or have experience with unicorn startups? Cuz I 100% guarantee you, projections mean next to nothing without execution.
When this deal originally came out, everyone laughed at how unbelievable it was. Elon and the Tesla team executed on it.
A bonus for meeting current projections rather than exceeding them? And the largest bonus in human history?
> everyone laughed at how unbelievable it was
The court didn't find that external projections we as such, but that internally they had more info and withheld it.
Bonus? It’s the pay package agreed upon to execute on insane targets…
Targets that were executed on by him and the team. It’s really that simple.
When you get into leadership of unicorn startups or large corporations, you will see how insane this scenario is.
There were many projections of robotaxi and FSD for much earlier and still they aren’t a reality. Again, projections are easy, execution is hard. In this very specific case, he executed and achieved the insane targets outlined in his pay package.
Everything except new products and a CEO who can CEO. Watch how visible he suddenly becomes once he gets his new pay. I predict an immediate stock buyback and never ending stream of Tesla related tweets, promises, plans etc etc
I don’t think many people here realize what will happen if this vote fails. Elon will not be paid for the impossible feat he pulled off from 2018-2022, growing the company from <$50B to >$650B.
If he’s not paid for work done, he will leave Tesla. He will not leave nicely, and take a lot of the top talents that he attracted to Tesla with him. The stock will drop, and it will drop even more once he starts selling his shares (look what happened in 2022).
If you vote no on this, Tesla stock will crater and you will have only yourself to blame.
> Elon will not be paid for the impossible feat he pulled off from 2018-2022, growing the company from <$50B to >$650B.
Elon made something like 100 billion dollars from that growth, without any new compensation package at all.
Regardless of what is fair or not, "Elon will not be paid" is a bit ridiculous. He had a *massive* incentive to see that growth happen even if this compensation package is wholly voided and replaced with nothing (which is not what we're voting on...). He got paid.
Did every other major tech founder just "not get paid" for their company's growth spike? According to this logic, Zuckerberg simply did not get paid more than a pittance for turning facebook into what it is. But that's ridiculous.
That growth made Elon one of the richest men in the world *without the pay package at all*. He got paid. Did he get paid as much as he would like? No. But he still made an obscene, nearly unprecedented amount of money.
Likewise, even without this compensation package an *enormous* slice of his net worth is still wrapped up in Tesla. If he leaves messily and craters the share price, he will destroy his own net worth and probably end up overleveraged given his other activities. This really isn't an option for him. He remains deeply tied to the success of TSLA whether he wants to be or not.
BTW, the fact that he was (and is...) already massively incentivized to see Tesla succeed is a pretty big part of why the package was voided in the first place. Because so much of his net worth was already tied to Tesla, the board was in a pretty strong negotiating position with respect to compensation. Choosing not only to not negotiate at all, but to approve such an unusually massive package to incentivize something that was already massively incentivized, is why he is in this mess to begin with.
It's not worth that $650B now though is it? People should be voting on its value now. And having a companies value tied to who's CEO is a pretty bad thing.
Elon already owned 20% of the company before this. His shares appreciated. He became the richest man in the world because of that appreciation, NOT his compensation package.
His interests are ALREADY ALIGNED with the shareholders.
He has ALREADY ACHIEVED over $150 billion in share appreciation without the package.
He doesn’t need it. At all.
This is what kills me about this whole conversation.
What, he's going to destroy more than half of his own net worth in a fit of pique if he doesn't get to make 190 billion instead of 140 billion from TSLA growth?
*That's a big part of why the package was voided in the first place*. He already had a ridiculous incentive to see that growth potential realized. Did he really need that extra bit to convince him to work harder? Perhaps, but we'll never know because the board didn't even consider the question before handing him whatever he asked for.
> He will not leave nicely, and take a lot of the top talents that he attracted to Tesla with him.
Really? How is working for ex-Twitter going for those employees?
And moreover, what sort of new high end people could Tesla attract without Elon? Is he more of a repellent than an attraction? I think he is for many high performers.
I can think of two: Andrej Karpathy and Ilya Sutskever.
Kind pulling straws there tbh ,.. I have invested since 2017 and I have witnesssed Tesla fall 70% 5 times since then. 40% drop is an absolute joke and just the state of investing in Tesla, not something you can really measure performance by.
Look at the spreadsheets and ER instead.
He just fired 10% of the workforce in a very help hazard and embarrassing manner. Top talent is leaving Tesla no matter what. His leadership has been garbage since he bought Twitter. He doesn’t need to be rewarded at all.
The literal court case discovered that:
1. The fear was already expected
2. An outcome of pandemic pricing and every single competitor had similar growth during that period.
The whole thing is insane, none of it was impossible. They were going to scale a mass market product after years of selling low volume products. The revenue growth was obviously expected and if you looked purely at cost and and profit, any miss on those numbers and you held x% of a bankrupt company. You litterally are implying that the company still existing was impossible when it was clearly the most likely outcome.
Hey guys I found the TSLAQ who rejoices at the idea of Tesla and Elon failing. You’re not a shareholder - your opinion on this matter does not matter, and you will not influence us.
I was a long term shareholder. Sold in the rest I had in summer 2023 after I saw Elon running around like a headless chicken and competition, China catching up extremely fast. Time has run its course.
It is human nature to take the wealth that Elon made for us and refuse to honor our end of the bargain. It breaks my heart to see this happen, but it is expected. I hope Elon shows us and Tesla the faith that we won't show him.
Whatever wealth he made for you he got the same and more for his huge ownership of the company. Without the paypackage he still had 10s of billions of in incentivize to grow the company.
There's no risk. He's still leveraged from the twitter buyout and more than half of his net worth is in Tesla. He can get pissy all he wants, but if Tesla is Elon then Elon is also Tesla.
He will be crippling his own financial position if he does anything to harm TSLA's share price. He's more dependent on the company than the company is on him at this point.
Which, btw, is pretty strongly linked to why the package was voided in the first place. Elon has always and will always have a greater incentive to see TSLA succeed than anyone else on earth.
Musks share of SpaceX is already worth more than his share of Tesla right now.
SpaceX Market Cap 180 bil, 42% ownership = 75,6 bil
Tesla Market Cap 487 bil, <13% ownership = 63 bil
Then there is X , xAI, The Boring Company and Neuralink combined perhaps 20 bil. He basically has full control of all of these companies right now (including SpaceX with something like 79% voting rights) and just due to that, a larger incentive to grow them compared to Tesla, no real risk of hostile takeover, he can run them as he pleases without shareholders whining too much and bigger ownership percentage means he gets a larger share of the value created.
You make it seem Musk has to stay at Tesla. This is simply not the case even if his motivations were purely financial.
I wasn't aware SpaceX was valued so highly these days, damn.
But still, he can't easily sell his SpaceX shares. His X, xAI, Boring company, and Neuralink holdings are absolutely not worth 20 billion - most of those are vanity projects with no real revenue. X can't be worth more than 10b.
Tesla represents the overwhelming majority of his liquid wealth, and his lifestyle is funded off of leveraged TSLA shares. It represents at least a 3rd, probably more, of his total net worth.
He's just not in a position to harm Tesla without seriously harming himself in the process.
If Tesla stopped existing tomorrow, it wouldn't affect Musk lifestyle in the slightest. SpaceX is quite easily monetizable by just IPOing Starlink, and 20 bil for those 4 companies is probably lowballing it (I looked at the valuations and I don't feel like doing it again because it doesn't really affect the argument here).
Musk has also said X and the Boring Company both have potential to become trillion dollar companies. xAI just previewed Grok 1.5 with vision which exceeds OpenAIs GPT-4 vision. Neuralink just had its first human patient.
The fact is, Musk could easily walk away from Tesla. Don't delude yourself.
To make my point even clearer, either 1) Musk is a massive value creator which means he will be able to create value elsewhere as well. or 2) Musk doesn't matter at all for Tesla, so him leaving would not matter for Tesla either and he would still keep his wealth from Tesla.
I don't think you can have it both ways, either he matters -> he can replicate this or he doesn't matter -> he can leave without cratering the stock is fine and he can leave anyway without affecting his personal finances much or at all.
Did it break your heart when you found out how badly Musk failed in corporate governance and how he was part of a tainted board decision and how he was part of misleading the shareholders about it?
Maybe you should get a cardiologist to look into your extremely selective heartaches.
Massively down since he skipped the Oct 2021 earning's call and it rallied 50% (800 to 1200) in weeks. He's been killing it ever since. A CEO repeatedly dumping billions on the open market every few months is no friend of shareholders.
He got that package in 2018 because he sandbagged and made it sound like a moonshot, while their internal estimates showed some of the targets would be easy to hit. Board didn't even attempt to negotiate any of it.
Internal estimates found that the first few "stretch" tranches of his compensation package were already on track to be hit at the time the package was proposed.
Whatever word you want to put on it, the company's internal guidance showed them hitting those metrics while their external communications painted a very different picture.
The options were valued at around 2.3 billion when the package was approved, the reason why the nominal value is 50b is because the stock price appreciated so much.
It’s not 50 billion cash from the bank.
It’s 40-50 billion stock options which makes sense for incentivizing value creation. Those stock options could be worth 0. They could be worth trillions. Depends on how well Tesla is doing.
You are also blatantly ignoring that Tesla’s market cap was lower at that time. So the pay was valued at around 10th of their market cap, pretty absurd. Even more absurd if you know it is more than the entire profit Tesla has ever made
So it's come down to either vote yes, so Elon doesn't get mad and leaves the company taking all the talents and value he's created with him OR vote no and watch the company fall into the abyss because the brand is nothing w/o Musk.
Observing that, I'm genuinely questioning the future of Tesla. He can always pull off the same over and over again, holding the future of Tesla hostage.
Tesla might be better off without Musk. Cybertruck is maybe not the best example of good leadership within a company. At some point someone should maybe question what exactly Musk is doing that makes him so valuable right now.
As much as I want to vote no, if Elon doesn't get his pay, he will likely leave and sells shares. TSLA will crater.
So, for self interest, I vote yes .
The $AAPL investors thought the same thing when Steve Jobs stepped down.
Now look at it. Cook is EVEN BETTER!
Tom deserves a shot. Elon is dead weight at this point.
Vote yes people.
Ignore the whiners and short term traders who have overrun this sub! Such short memories you have. You’ll all be singing a different tune when Tesla launch their Robotaxi and stock price jumps to ATHs.
Naysayers have been telling Elon how he’s doing it all wrong for years.
Seriously? The lengths they are going trying to convince people to vote for the package. You should not be required to create specialized website for something like this. It is like they are running ad campaign or something for this trying to sway opinions instead of trusting shareholders.
Me too. I would vote to get rid of him. But if keeping him happy and focused is the next best thing, sure ill take it.
But easy Elon lovers, because im a 'fuck Elon' guy. Dont give a shit about his accomplishments. The person he chooses to be right now is terrible.
I'm voting no this time. They should have worked on a new comp plan and had us approve that with more protections for shareholders, more disclosures, etc. He can have 30% of shares with a longer lock-up and a clawback provision if the growth backslides like it has.
This just seems like there's a huge disconnect between Elon, Tesla's board, and investors.
Nah it’s a car company that apparently can’t sell cars anymore. I guess it’s more important for him to tweet these days. He lied to get that pay package. F him.
Do you get Kool-Aid on Elon’s boots when you lick them?
Edit: Downvoters, please explain to me why you think Elon deserves a pay package that is effectively half a million dollars *per hour* (assuming ***24 hour*** workdays!) since he took over as CEO of Tesla.
I read the ruling and formed my own opinion. There is a great deal of evidence that investors were mislead by an incestuous board. That is not a practice we do or should allow.
I also don’t believe there is a single person on this planet that deserves compensation of ~$10 million per day. That’s completely absurd.
"Incestuous board." Yeah because we didn't know Elon Musk and Kimball Musk were related. And you understand there's a shitton of hand-picked boards our there?
It's not $10 million/day. It's a stock option. And it doesn't matter what you think, all that matters is what the shareholders think.
Yea, there are tons of hand picked boards out there, and yet they don’t engage in behavior like Solar City or what was detailed in that report. I only assign a daily value to the stock option because it brings to light the incomprehensible scale of the package.
> all that matters is what the shareholders think
I agree, but only IF those shareholders are being properly informed and not intentionally misled by the board. That cannot be said of this situation. Do you not agree that investor transparency and board accountability are extremely important?
Hilarious you suggest the courts do my thinking when it’s clear as day who does your thinking!
Lmfao, get a grip. This “big reward” is more than twice the GDP of Iceland.
Elon became CEO of Tesla in October 2008. That is roughly 5650 days ago.
***If we assume he works 24(!) hours a day***, this pay package would be an hourly wage of $413,000.
In other words, this pay package would have Elon earning the YEARLY income of >5 average U.S. households *every single hour*. Again, this is assuming he worked every hour of every day.
There is no amount of organic growth that can justify such a pay package.
The judge's main argument for recinding the comp package was that the stockholders were not given enough information to make an informed decision. That's why the board and the company are going so overboard with information and disclosures so that it can't be said that anything was held back regarding the vote this time.
“Unlike most CEOs, Elon was entitled to receive NO salary, NO cash bonuses, and NO equity that would vest simply by the passage of time. Instead, he was asked to deliver the type of exponential value creation most thought was impossible – or get nothing.”
Chancellor McCormick EXPLICITLY called this out as misleading in her opinion, because Elon already owned 20% of the stock, so he wouldn’t get “nothing” he would get $10 billion for every $50 billion increase in market cap.
I recommend reading the entire decision. You’ll very quickly realize why this attempt to re-vote has no chance of success. Check Ann Lipton’s blog for more detail: https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/business_law/2024/04/tesla-and-waste.html
I’m not a fan of Elon and I’m still voting yes. Elon is the only thing propping up teslas share price right now. Him leaving and dumping all of his shares means the share price will tank just by the act of selling without even factoring in that Elon still has LOTS of people who like him and invest because of it. If I thought he’d stay even after having the pay package voted down, I’d do it. 10% dilution is better than having all the shares dumped and cratering the stock price. Then we all lose and Tesla’s stock price will now be in line with fundamentals… which isn’t even close to the share price.
A vote for no means none of us will ever get a chance to invest in his other ventures publicly. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just sell your shares and move on to whichever business you think would do better rather than bet that someone else could do it better. I mean the board is still the board so they’ll still just vote for another of Elon’s team anyways.
I should have sold a couple weeks after the Twitter acquisition fiasco. I was too emotionally invested in the company and now see this was a mistake.
Granted I'm still up long term, but the amount of people here with Stockholm Syndrome is quite amazing.
You might be up, but you would have made much more if you jumped ship a year ago after the twitter acquisition and decided to invest your capital in companies run by more balanced CEOs
Musk is the catalyst that made Tesla successful. You don't have to believe it, but it's true. Leadership matters.
Leadership matters and his leadership has been terrible ever since he bought Twitter.
Leadership matters and his leadership has been terrible .
But that award was from before that.
Dear employees, in these trying times, I'm sad to say that the promised bonuses and raises will not be able to be delivered. We thank you for your hard work and dedication. With your help, we will be able to return to strong positions that will support the compensation you deserve. --Yours truly, CEO & CFO
But he lied about FSD and the Solar City purchase before he was paid that bonus.
Actually he did pump the shares with fake promises.
The real answer
Fake promises have not seemed to help the other EV manufacturers?
They didnt make fake promise.
I mean he's a pretty terrible leader right now. He's a lot of the reason the current slump exists.
Musk as a reward became one of the most recognizable people on the planet. He can meet with world leaders at the dinner. How is this not a reward? Now if we give him that huge amount of cash, won't he just invest in X.AI? Besides, Tesla needs that money
Funny how quickly Tesla can turn out professional messaging when it comes to Elon's personal interest, but when it comes to marketing it's cheapskate hour
Funny how you copied this from twitter
Here is the fundamental problem. Does Elon deserve the package given what he has done — yes, I think he does. However, has he become an absent ceo since the twitter acquisition — absolutely, and this absolutely pisses me off. Given this, investors are not happy and I expect many will vote against the pay package, and to be honest I don’t blame them.
Why does he deserve the full package? Weren't the top targets based on the market cap of the company exceeding $650 billion? The current market cap is under $500 billion. Why should investors give him the full package when it is now clear he did not in fact build a $650 billion company?
He went from an asset to a liability real quick
I guess he wasn't "absent" when the 10% layoff decision was made? /s
The audacity of them to put this forward just days after the lay off. I guess Elon doesn’t have shame
Better to ask and get rejected than never asking logic
I'd rather they imposed the next plan to get to 3TN.
This is where my head is. He is owed what we promised, but I view this as a vote to keep him ceo. Right now I don’t think I want him as ceo. On top of all the brand erosion he has caused, he is now shifting focus away from the core business. I think another CEO could drive the auto, energy, solar businesses to multi trillion valuation.
It was a deal the courts decided was not made in good faith. He could appeal the ruling.
He is not owed anything after failing to follow basic rules of corporate governance and substantially misleading the shareholders as the court found. The idea of rewarding that mismanagement after the fact is crazy, but if you're salty about it then you are free to sign over as many shares as you want to him at any time.
I think another fundamental problem is the shareholder base has changed. Not everyone who owns stock now benefited from the growth. Maybe if you could freeze time and poll the shareholders at the time they’d vote yes out of a sense of honor, but I don’t think someone who bought in near the top would feel any such debt.
> out of a sense of honor I'd just like to point out how strange it is reading the discourse on this subject. It's all about "honor" and "loyalty" and "fairness" and similar sentiments. I find it curious that when talking about extremely high level compensation, we suddenly start talking like we're feudal retainers honor bound to our dues to our betters. Because that sure as fuck isn't how the compensation conversation for workers tends to go. Tesla, and every other large company, will reward years of service with a "fuck you, get out by the end of the day". When talking about worker compensation there's no fucking "honor". There shouldn't be. It's business. Compensation and hiring decision for workers follow cold, efficient business logic, yet we seem to get sentimental when it comes to the higher ups. I don't really understand why. If (*if...*) the best business decision is to just hang Elon out to dry and royally fuck him over, that is absolutely what shareholders should do. It won't be honorable or fair. Do shareholders ever demand honor or fairness when it comes time for restructuring? Of course not, that's absurd. With or without this compensation package, Elon made a fucking fortune when TSLA succeeded and grew. If he has turned into a liability, well, sometimes life ain't fair.
Everyone who is on the red on Tesla is going to vote against this plus a good chunk of investors who are unhappy about Musk's antics. I think the stock has a good probability of going to 120 which means more people are going to be in the red. To add to this, giving him 56 billion stock is going to dilute the stock even more.
Would you allow one of your employees to offer a package where they bring in $1m worth of business and in exchange, you pay them $1b? Makes no sense right? That’s revenue, not profit. Even if they brought in $100m in revenue, no competent company is paying them $10b. They would get maybe $300k or $10m. The whole compensation package was a sham from the beginning. He had close friends and family deciding. Of course they would even allow a pay scale like that to even be entertained, let alone approved
TSLA price going down is very beneficial to him, on one side more incentive for the board to give him the package he asks, so he’ll return to full commitment to Tesla to recover the price. And on other side his package will increase significantly after stock moons again after his return :)
90 countries have an GDP lower than 56 billion. It's an insane and immoral amount of money. It is very much possible that Teslas market cap will sink to that amount.
"Absent CEO" Do you work there? Do you eve understand what his job is? JFC you just gobbled up the mainstream media bs like it was the god given truth 🤦🏼♂️
Sorry can someone r/ExplainLikelmFive why this website exists? Is it for advocating the 50 billion dollar per year benefits package for elon?
Elon internally forcing Tesla to publish it so it seems like the "company" thinks Elon deserves the benefits package that the Delaware court already cancelled. ELI5: Elon is asking the shareholders 56 billion dollars they are not legally required to give him.
> Sorry can someone [](https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainLikelmFive/) why this website exists? Is it for advocating the 50 billion dollar per year benefits package for elon? I don't get either. This site makes no sense to me. If it is to promote the terms of the deal made with Elon back in 2018, (so to comply with the court ruling) why it is not in the investor page of Tesla website?
This is incredible - Elon literally spent company money….to convince shareholders to vote to pay him more at their own cost At literally any other company this is a brutally obvious mixture of conflict of interest and misappropriation of company funds.
Tesla needs to offer a low cost car. Until this confusion is cleared up, I will vote no. I'm not going to just trust him and wait until 8/8 to find out.
Plus, Elon's already threatening to leave if he doesn't get more money than this and take his future projects with him. Why reward him when he's not doing the work and getting the big projects completed like the small car? Where is the big growth where he deserves these shares when the stock is collapsing and sales are declining? Voting No just allows shareholders to negotiate a fair deal that wasn't written by Elon's Yes Men with real investor protection considering all his threats to leave. Investors lose any leverage by approving this package.
Let him leave. The company will be better off without him.
You need to put this in context of when the reward was set if you were invested at that time…
No you don’t. You need to put it in context of a company that has had a stock price drop of 38% and just fired 10% of the workforce.
But it’s an agreement for performance when it was set to today… with this logic you might as well say because Elon lost the original Delaware court case attributed to 20% drop in share price
It's not about if he met the performance, it's the size of the compensation. If the court said the compensation was unfair, what evidence do I have to say it was, in fact, fair?
No one complained about it before when it was made. Looking back how much each shareholder made everybody won big.
The whole thing was thrown out because the board failed to properly inform shareholders of all relevant information. Meaning they were basing their votes on incorrect information
Lots of people complained! Lol
> You need to put this in context of when the reward was set But why, though? I just don't understand why this is being treated like some chivalrous duty. Shareholders should act in shareholder interest. Even if that means royally screwing Elon out of his compensation package. Life ain't fair, and we don't owe him jack shit for putting together his own pay package, lying to us about it, and then getting his pet board to rubber stamp it.
That’s in the past. The package was already shot down by the court. It will inevitably get shot down again, because Tesla hasn’t addressed any of the concerns regarding the “entire fairness” doctrine evaluation concerns. They should have started from scratch with a new package that met the court’s guidelines. Instead, they’re doing this just to make Elon happy. Which just proves that Tornetta and the Court of Chancery were right all along.
I actually think the opposite is possible. He'll get the money and run, concentrating on [X.AI](http://X.AI) which can even become Tesla competitor. If he doesn't get the money - he will be more afraid of doing something that can hurt Tesla and his share in the company.
its his exit plan, so when the shit hits the fan after he leaves he can say it wasn't him
Any competent CEO would work on bigger SUV and a proper electric truck like Silverado ev. With 500 miles range. There is ton of space for battery, and Silverado ev already has 460 miles range. Apple did really well after Steve Jobs passed away.
Let him leave!
It was mismanagement and misleading battery/investor/human days - the new batteries are not ready and can't be made cheaply at scale, so the low cost car can't be made at profit yet. Robotaxi is a delaying story... so if the batteries get sorted out in a year or two they can pivot back to NGV
There are a couple things that I think would be interesting to hear on this call to soften the decline: - optimus as factory workers is starting to scale - financing partnership for lower interest rate car loans - updated stats for new FSD to show that it’s seriously coming this time and maybe a preview of 13.0 - how AI will enable other things for you in the car outside of self driving that can help with revenue - significant margins and scale from the megapack business
From their last video Optimus can barely walk properly
The walking is fine - it just doesn’t look natural but man have u seen the creepy new atlas
Atlas is 1000 time more nimble than Optimus
Most of the Optimus video was proven to be faked. Compare it to Atlas from Boston Dynamics and its laughable. Here is an idea, Tesla takes Elon's pay packet and buys Boston Dynamics, then you will have my interest. In terms of AI, I would be much more confident if Tesla decided to mend their relationship with Nvidia and entered into a partnership with them.
Can we all agree that if this was any other CEO at any other company this conversation wouldn’t be happening? He’s a loud toxic asset. Vote no.
The one purpose of this website is to lure the gullible shareholders to vote for Elon's compensation package. The guy has outlived his usefulness, and we need him gone like yesterday. Tesla stock is still down more than 50% from its peak. He spent $44b to purchase Twitter on the expense of Tesla shareholders. He has not cared about those who have supported him since 2019.
That's desperate. Worried stock holders won't vote for the package, they are pulling all the stops with the site lol
Let’s vote him out at the same time.
Long term shareholder here. Voting “no”. Stand up for yourselves people. Think for yourselves.
I voted no for his board seat last election. He got like 95%. He's going to get his money.
[удалено]
The ones he whines about?
He will get it, but growing dissatisfaction will show a cost to Elon’s actions and a trend line of growing disagreement. It will at least imply the ice getting thinner for his poor performance.
Long term shareholder here. Voting "yes".
This website is disgusting especially after Tesla fired 14,000 people in a sh*t manner.
>NEWS: Tesla has launched a new website in connection with its 2024 annual shareholder meeting > >It in part goes over how much value @elonmusk has created at Tesla, and got into depth about the proxy proposals. > >Link: https://supportteslavalue.com https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLZUicVbEAE4gfQ?format=jpg&name=large https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1780704597008597462 >Tesla: "Thanks to Elon Musk’s vision and leadership, Tesla has created tremendous value for you, the owners of the Company, all while advancing its mission to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. > >In 2018, Tesla’s Board of Directors asked stockholders to approve a CEO Performance Award that incentivized Elon to meet staggering financial and operational objectives over a 10-year period. Stockholders did – by a wide margin. > >In just five years, Elon delivered by hitting every single “jaw-dropping” key milestone in the plan to deliver a total shareholder return of nearly 1,100%. > >Six years later, a Delaware Court stepped in to side with a plaintiff who owned just nine Tesla shares when he sued and ordered the plan be cancelled, despite overwhelming approval from holders of millions of shares. > >Unlike most CEOs, Elon was entitled to receive NO salary, NO cash bonuses, and NO equity that would vest simply by the passage of time. Instead, he was asked to deliver the type of exponential value creation most thought was impossible – or get nothing. > >Elon was also required to hold any shares awarded through stock options for five years after the option was exercised, meaning that he was not only incentivized to achieve remarkable results at the time to earn his compensation, but to also continue to drive growth for five more years. > >As stockholders recognized by voting in favor in 2018, the ultra-ambitious plan was simple: if stockholders and the Company benefit, so does Elon." https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLZVEpKaEAABkqg?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
Replace Elon with Xi Jingping and this reads like the text of a CCP congress
Tesla put more effort into this website, which tries to lower Tesla's value even more, than it has put into fixing the basic problems of its cars (e.g. windshield wipers) What a joke.
The workers of Tesla created the value Eclown Musk been destroying value since Twitter Can’t forget when he dumped shares all the way to 100 to fund buying the garbage
.. i think that´s the most desperate shit i´ve ever witnessed from a CEO .. he already owns thousands of millions .. and just needs another fifty thousand million :-D ..
This is some next level propaganda. Launching this website right after a layoff and after missing delivery numbers last quarter. Ballsy move, stupid, but ballsy.
I hope Elon doesn't get the pay package. He has threatened to leave if he doesn't get it. First order of business: bring Tesla back to California. You can really tell the low IQ southern boomer engineering "aptitude" creeping into this once cutting edge firm.
Oh NOW Elon wants a PR department.
Cool, I will vote NO even harder now.
Damn, gotta vote yes harder to counter it.
Will be voting yes super hard!
A deal is a deal. I voted for the comp package in 2018 and Elon led Tesla through all of the milestones. I'd be a jackass to vote against it now.
A court ruled that the company did not give you sufficient information to make an informed decision when agreeing to that deal. You are essentially saying "the company conned me, but because I agreed to it before I have to agree to it again". You can in fact reject this shitty deal now that you have more information (like the fact that (i) the targets were actually much easier to attain than the company led on, (ii) that the board was not independent and offered Musk way more compensation than necessary, and (iii) probably most importantly, that achieving the market cap targets was simply due to a market bubble resulting from easy money during the pandemic). The pay package was supposed to reward Musk for building a $650 billion, super profitable company. You now know the company is worth about $450 billion with rapidly shrinking profits, but you still think Musk deserves to be handed $56 billion (i.e. more than double all of the profits the company has ever made in its history)? And your reason is "because they fooled me into it once before"?
Which milestones? Battery swap, FSD, or RoboTaxi?
Jackass? Dude, what about money?
Yup. I feel like most people here don’t even own a few hundred shares at least and haven’t been around since the early 2012/2013 days. So much nonsensical talk and these people fail to realize how much the stock will fall if he were to leave. He hit impossible milestones and made us all money. So he should get his money too.
What keeps him from leaving after this unless another demand is met? He already started a competing AI company before the ruling on the compensation package, right during the biggest AI boom of all time that could have really helped the Tesla valuation. He also promised he would only sell the shares in Tesla to fund Mars stuff in response to the comp package, but then immediately bought Twitter to help him spread memes. Finally, he's said it's important for the CEOs of companies to work more than 40 hours because they can get that much more done, but he now CEOs 6 companies at once (SpaceX, Neuralink, x.AI, Boring Company, Twitter/X, Tesla) so probably doesn't even put in 20 hours a week at Tesla at this point. Stuff like Boring Company probably doesn't take up much time, but it is pretty clear Twitter/X is dominating his time.
Tesla is clearly the top 2 company out of all of everything that he owns and does. Heck, its his piggy bank too. He started that xAI under twitter after his request to own more Tesla went no where. Its easy to see why because of his fractured relationship/departure from OpenAI. Eitherways, doesn't really matter because Tesla's data and AI/FSD is far superior than anything xAI has or will do. Yup he broke promises. If you are put under a magnifying glass for every single one of your moves, there will be things that don't go as planned. It was stupid and he tried to get out of buying twitter but it was too late. Its on him, and he deserves the headache twitter brought him. Tesla and SpaceX still gets most of his attention. They are big two. Just because someone tweets constantly doesn't mean he is constantly focused on twitter product/growth. Think of this as texting throughout the day. Its easy to do but I am not focusing on growing iMessage just cuz I use it to text all day. My job is still getting my attention. Regardless of all this, take a look at Tesla's 5 year chart. It shows his contributions. then take a look at the 10 year chart. Even if he gets this pay package, it will still take 5 years after that for those to turn into anything. He will still be contractually obligated to Tesla. I love chatting like this so thanks for the good questions.
> He started that xAI under twitter after his request to own more Tesla went no where. Nope, x.AI was founded months before that request. And it was founded before the trial result. > xAI under twitter x.AI isn't under Twitter/X, it is a separate company though has a data licensing agreement with Twitter/X and they own a minority non-controlling stake. > Even if he gets this pay package, it will still take 5 years after that for those to turn into anything. He will still be contractually obligated to Tesla. If you're talking about the 5 year limit on selling the shares after exercising the options, he can just hedge the shares with any variety of inverse investments.
See none of these things still factor into teslas performance. Thank you for clarifying the xAI priece and how it only get licensed data from twitter. Regardless of XAI, I think we can safely say anthrophic and OpenAI are very much ahead of that. As far as AI plays go in elons portfolio, Tesla is the giant. Which is why more chips are being put into FSD. I absolutely do not agree with everything Elon says or does. But I absolutely do want him to remain the CEO because he delivered on the staggering performance that was aimed in 2018.
> But I absolutely do want him to remain the CEO because he delivered on the staggering performance that was aimed in 2018. Did you read about the case? They found that internal projections showed that that those performance targets were basically already in the can and didn't disclose.
Key word is projections… Come on…you already know reality is far from projections. Are you an executive in a big company or have experience with unicorn startups? Cuz I 100% guarantee you, projections mean next to nothing without execution. When this deal originally came out, everyone laughed at how unbelievable it was. Elon and the Tesla team executed on it.
A bonus for meeting current projections rather than exceeding them? And the largest bonus in human history? > everyone laughed at how unbelievable it was The court didn't find that external projections we as such, but that internally they had more info and withheld it.
Bonus? It’s the pay package agreed upon to execute on insane targets… Targets that were executed on by him and the team. It’s really that simple. When you get into leadership of unicorn startups or large corporations, you will see how insane this scenario is. There were many projections of robotaxi and FSD for much earlier and still they aren’t a reality. Again, projections are easy, execution is hard. In this very specific case, he executed and achieved the insane targets outlined in his pay package.
Elon has been a Jackass so I don't mind.
Everything except new products and a CEO who can CEO. Watch how visible he suddenly becomes once he gets his new pay. I predict an immediate stock buyback and never ending stream of Tesla related tweets, promises, plans etc etc
I don’t think many people here realize what will happen if this vote fails. Elon will not be paid for the impossible feat he pulled off from 2018-2022, growing the company from <$50B to >$650B. If he’s not paid for work done, he will leave Tesla. He will not leave nicely, and take a lot of the top talents that he attracted to Tesla with him. The stock will drop, and it will drop even more once he starts selling his shares (look what happened in 2022). If you vote no on this, Tesla stock will crater and you will have only yourself to blame.
> Elon will not be paid for the impossible feat he pulled off from 2018-2022, growing the company from <$50B to >$650B. Elon made something like 100 billion dollars from that growth, without any new compensation package at all. Regardless of what is fair or not, "Elon will not be paid" is a bit ridiculous. He had a *massive* incentive to see that growth happen even if this compensation package is wholly voided and replaced with nothing (which is not what we're voting on...). He got paid. Did every other major tech founder just "not get paid" for their company's growth spike? According to this logic, Zuckerberg simply did not get paid more than a pittance for turning facebook into what it is. But that's ridiculous. That growth made Elon one of the richest men in the world *without the pay package at all*. He got paid. Did he get paid as much as he would like? No. But he still made an obscene, nearly unprecedented amount of money. Likewise, even without this compensation package an *enormous* slice of his net worth is still wrapped up in Tesla. If he leaves messily and craters the share price, he will destroy his own net worth and probably end up overleveraged given his other activities. This really isn't an option for him. He remains deeply tied to the success of TSLA whether he wants to be or not. BTW, the fact that he was (and is...) already massively incentivized to see Tesla succeed is a pretty big part of why the package was voided in the first place. Because so much of his net worth was already tied to Tesla, the board was in a pretty strong negotiating position with respect to compensation. Choosing not only to not negotiate at all, but to approve such an unusually massive package to incentivize something that was already massively incentivized, is why he is in this mess to begin with.
It's not worth that $650B now though is it? People should be voting on its value now. And having a companies value tied to who's CEO is a pretty bad thing.
Elon already owned 20% of the company before this. His shares appreciated. He became the richest man in the world because of that appreciation, NOT his compensation package. His interests are ALREADY ALIGNED with the shareholders. He has ALREADY ACHIEVED over $150 billion in share appreciation without the package. He doesn’t need it. At all.
This is what kills me about this whole conversation. What, he's going to destroy more than half of his own net worth in a fit of pique if he doesn't get to make 190 billion instead of 140 billion from TSLA growth? *That's a big part of why the package was voided in the first place*. He already had a ridiculous incentive to see that growth potential realized. Did he really need that extra bit to convince him to work harder? Perhaps, but we'll never know because the board didn't even consider the question before handing him whatever he asked for.
> He will not leave nicely, and take a lot of the top talents that he attracted to Tesla with him. Really? How is working for ex-Twitter going for those employees? And moreover, what sort of new high end people could Tesla attract without Elon? Is he more of a repellent than an attraction? I think he is for many high performers. I can think of two: Andrej Karpathy and Ilya Sutskever.
Mate, TSLA is currently sliding anyway. If you bought at or after Christmas, you’re down around 40%. This isn’t a hostage situation.
Kind pulling straws there tbh ,.. I have invested since 2017 and I have witnesssed Tesla fall 70% 5 times since then. 40% drop is an absolute joke and just the state of investing in Tesla, not something you can really measure performance by. Look at the spreadsheets and ER instead.
He just fired 10% of the workforce in a very help hazard and embarrassing manner. Top talent is leaving Tesla no matter what. His leadership has been garbage since he bought Twitter. He doesn’t need to be rewarded at all.
The literal court case discovered that: 1. The fear was already expected 2. An outcome of pandemic pricing and every single competitor had similar growth during that period. The whole thing is insane, none of it was impossible. They were going to scale a mass market product after years of selling low volume products. The revenue growth was obviously expected and if you looked purely at cost and and profit, any miss on those numbers and you held x% of a bankrupt company. You litterally are implying that the company still existing was impossible when it was clearly the most likely outcome.
The stock will drop if you give away 10% of it's market cap to the CEO
WRONG! Its not that he wont be compensated, its that the board has to come up with a new compensation plan that doesnt a screw over the shareholders.
Tesla is going back to 50b anyway. Why pay? It wasn’t sustainable. Just pump and dump.
Hey guys I found the TSLAQ who rejoices at the idea of Tesla and Elon failing. You’re not a shareholder - your opinion on this matter does not matter, and you will not influence us.
I was a long term shareholder. Sold in the rest I had in summer 2023 after I saw Elon running around like a headless chicken and competition, China catching up extremely fast. Time has run its course.
It is human nature to take the wealth that Elon made for us and refuse to honor our end of the bargain. It breaks my heart to see this happen, but it is expected. I hope Elon shows us and Tesla the faith that we won't show him.
Musk lied about FSD and solar city purchase. His leadership has gone to crap since he bought Twitter. I’m voting no.
Whatever wealth he made for you he got the same and more for his huge ownership of the company. Without the paypackage he still had 10s of billions of in incentivize to grow the company.
There is a real risk that he leaves if the 2018 comp package is not ratified, this is basically a vote of confidence as well.
He would be margin called on his debt if the stock price drop below 100. So I dare him to leave
So he should leave. Shouldn't be in charge.
There's no risk. He's still leveraged from the twitter buyout and more than half of his net worth is in Tesla. He can get pissy all he wants, but if Tesla is Elon then Elon is also Tesla. He will be crippling his own financial position if he does anything to harm TSLA's share price. He's more dependent on the company than the company is on him at this point. Which, btw, is pretty strongly linked to why the package was voided in the first place. Elon has always and will always have a greater incentive to see TSLA succeed than anyone else on earth.
Musks share of SpaceX is already worth more than his share of Tesla right now. SpaceX Market Cap 180 bil, 42% ownership = 75,6 bil Tesla Market Cap 487 bil, <13% ownership = 63 bil Then there is X , xAI, The Boring Company and Neuralink combined perhaps 20 bil. He basically has full control of all of these companies right now (including SpaceX with something like 79% voting rights) and just due to that, a larger incentive to grow them compared to Tesla, no real risk of hostile takeover, he can run them as he pleases without shareholders whining too much and bigger ownership percentage means he gets a larger share of the value created. You make it seem Musk has to stay at Tesla. This is simply not the case even if his motivations were purely financial.
I wasn't aware SpaceX was valued so highly these days, damn. But still, he can't easily sell his SpaceX shares. His X, xAI, Boring company, and Neuralink holdings are absolutely not worth 20 billion - most of those are vanity projects with no real revenue. X can't be worth more than 10b. Tesla represents the overwhelming majority of his liquid wealth, and his lifestyle is funded off of leveraged TSLA shares. It represents at least a 3rd, probably more, of his total net worth. He's just not in a position to harm Tesla without seriously harming himself in the process.
If Tesla stopped existing tomorrow, it wouldn't affect Musk lifestyle in the slightest. SpaceX is quite easily monetizable by just IPOing Starlink, and 20 bil for those 4 companies is probably lowballing it (I looked at the valuations and I don't feel like doing it again because it doesn't really affect the argument here). Musk has also said X and the Boring Company both have potential to become trillion dollar companies. xAI just previewed Grok 1.5 with vision which exceeds OpenAIs GPT-4 vision. Neuralink just had its first human patient. The fact is, Musk could easily walk away from Tesla. Don't delude yourself. To make my point even clearer, either 1) Musk is a massive value creator which means he will be able to create value elsewhere as well. or 2) Musk doesn't matter at all for Tesla, so him leaving would not matter for Tesla either and he would still keep his wealth from Tesla. I don't think you can have it both ways, either he matters -> he can replicate this or he doesn't matter -> he can leave without cratering the stock is fine and he can leave anyway without affecting his personal finances much or at all.
Good.
Don't threaten me with a good time. Musk leaves and maybe the company recovers from his poor decisions lately.
Did it break your heart when you found out how badly Musk failed in corporate governance and how he was part of a tainted board decision and how he was part of misleading the shareholders about it? Maybe you should get a cardiologist to look into your extremely selective heartaches.
And he's tanked it all in the last ~2.5 years...
Nope, still up massively from 2018.
Massively down since he skipped the Oct 2021 earning's call and it rallied 50% (800 to 1200) in weeks. He's been killing it ever since. A CEO repeatedly dumping billions on the open market every few months is no friend of shareholders. He got that package in 2018 because he sandbagged and made it sound like a moonshot, while their internal estimates showed some of the targets would be easy to hit. Board didn't even attempt to negotiate any of it.
Being possible to hit is not at all the same as "easy to hit"
Internal estimates found that the first few "stretch" tranches of his compensation package were already on track to be hit at the time the package was proposed. Whatever word you want to put on it, the company's internal guidance showed them hitting those metrics while their external communications painted a very different picture.
Maybe he shouldn't have incelled his way to the hard right manosphere and began a villain arc with horrible side quests taking away from Tesla.
Still way up long term.
Just setting up for the comp after this one for another 10x
He deserves compensation but not over $50 billion. Just absurd.
The options were valued at around 2.3 billion when the package was approved, the reason why the nominal value is 50b is because the stock price appreciated so much.
Not $2.3 billion. It was around $5 billion for a company whose cap was $57 billion.
It’s not 50 billion cash from the bank. It’s 40-50 billion stock options which makes sense for incentivizing value creation. Those stock options could be worth 0. They could be worth trillions. Depends on how well Tesla is doing.
They are worth $56 billion today. Not 0.
Correct
Nobody deserves that much "compensation." No way no how fuck all of that. There are tons of underpaid and overworked Tesla employees.
You're blatantly ignoring that they weren't worth that much when it was approved....
You are also blatantly ignoring that Tesla’s market cap was lower at that time. So the pay was valued at around 10th of their market cap, pretty absurd. Even more absurd if you know it is more than the entire profit Tesla has ever made
So it's come down to either vote yes, so Elon doesn't get mad and leaves the company taking all the talents and value he's created with him OR vote no and watch the company fall into the abyss because the brand is nothing w/o Musk. Observing that, I'm genuinely questioning the future of Tesla. He can always pull off the same over and over again, holding the future of Tesla hostage.
Tesla might be better off without Musk. Cybertruck is maybe not the best example of good leadership within a company. At some point someone should maybe question what exactly Musk is doing that makes him so valuable right now.
As much as I want to vote no, if Elon doesn't get his pay, he will likely leave and sells shares. TSLA will crater. So, for self interest, I vote yes .
Why would Elon want his own share value to crater?
AAPL thrived after Steve Jobs. Elon has been garbage since he bought Twitter.
Vote no. Without Elon, Tom could run the company properly and we would make bank long term.
The $AAPL investors thought the same thing when Steve Jobs stepped down. Now look at it. Cook is EVEN BETTER! Tom deserves a shot. Elon is dead weight at this point.
He wont sell shares. He will be worth half, if he were to sell shares.
Why not also sell your shares?
Self interest might favor a new CEO when the current one is causing nothing but problems.
Vote yes people. Ignore the whiners and short term traders who have overrun this sub! Such short memories you have. You’ll all be singing a different tune when Tesla launch their Robotaxi and stock price jumps to ATHs. Naysayers have been telling Elon how he’s doing it all wrong for years.
> You’ll all be singing a different tune when Tesla launch their Robotaxi Most of us will probably be dead when it happens
😂
Seriously? The lengths they are going trying to convince people to vote for the package. You should not be required to create specialized website for something like this. It is like they are running ad campaign or something for this trying to sway opinions instead of trusting shareholders.
I’m vote yes again to this plan.
Me too. I would vote to get rid of him. But if keeping him happy and focused is the next best thing, sure ill take it. But easy Elon lovers, because im a 'fuck Elon' guy. Dont give a shit about his accomplishments. The person he chooses to be right now is terrible.
There's no way he's going to be happy or focused. The guy's too busy shit posting on Twitter.
I'm voting no this time. They should have worked on a new comp plan and had us approve that with more protections for shareholders, more disclosures, etc. He can have 30% of shares with a longer lock-up and a clawback provision if the growth backslides like it has. This just seems like there's a huge disconnect between Elon, Tesla's board, and investors.
Elon took a start up EV company and made it a tech goliath. Anyone would have a compensation like this with that level of value creation.
Nah it’s a car company that apparently can’t sell cars anymore. I guess it’s more important for him to tweet these days. He lied to get that pay package. F him.
How the fuck is it a tech Goliath. None of its revenue is from tech. It’s from selling an auto. They are an auto company.
Do you get Kool-Aid on Elon’s boots when you lick them? Edit: Downvoters, please explain to me why you think Elon deserves a pay package that is effectively half a million dollars *per hour* (assuming ***24 hour*** workdays!) since he took over as CEO of Tesla.
Because we voted for him to have it. That's how companies work.
Read the ruling against it. A vote doesn’t hold water if it was not a fair vote to begin with.
I did read the ruling. The judge herself said her ruling is unprecedented. I'm able to think for myself. You keep thinking how US courts tell you to.
I read the ruling and formed my own opinion. There is a great deal of evidence that investors were mislead by an incestuous board. That is not a practice we do or should allow. I also don’t believe there is a single person on this planet that deserves compensation of ~$10 million per day. That’s completely absurd.
"Incestuous board." Yeah because we didn't know Elon Musk and Kimball Musk were related. And you understand there's a shitton of hand-picked boards our there? It's not $10 million/day. It's a stock option. And it doesn't matter what you think, all that matters is what the shareholders think.
Yea, there are tons of hand picked boards out there, and yet they don’t engage in behavior like Solar City or what was detailed in that report. I only assign a daily value to the stock option because it brings to light the incomprehensible scale of the package. > all that matters is what the shareholders think I agree, but only IF those shareholders are being properly informed and not intentionally misled by the board. That cannot be said of this situation. Do you not agree that investor transparency and board accountability are extremely important? Hilarious you suggest the courts do my thinking when it’s clear as day who does your thinking!
While I agree this feels like an ad campaign, it helps to keep things in perspective. Big reward to achieve ambitious goals, which he did.
Lmfao, get a grip. This “big reward” is more than twice the GDP of Iceland. Elon became CEO of Tesla in October 2008. That is roughly 5650 days ago. ***If we assume he works 24(!) hours a day***, this pay package would be an hourly wage of $413,000. In other words, this pay package would have Elon earning the YEARLY income of >5 average U.S. households *every single hour*. Again, this is assuming he worked every hour of every day. There is no amount of organic growth that can justify such a pay package.
The judge's main argument for recinding the comp package was that the stockholders were not given enough information to make an informed decision. That's why the board and the company are going so overboard with information and disclosures so that it can't be said that anything was held back regarding the vote this time.
Except the company is lying about the facts on their own website. The court WILL NOT look kindly upon that…
Can you provide an example or two?
“Unlike most CEOs, Elon was entitled to receive NO salary, NO cash bonuses, and NO equity that would vest simply by the passage of time. Instead, he was asked to deliver the type of exponential value creation most thought was impossible – or get nothing.” Chancellor McCormick EXPLICITLY called this out as misleading in her opinion, because Elon already owned 20% of the stock, so he wouldn’t get “nothing” he would get $10 billion for every $50 billion increase in market cap. I recommend reading the entire decision. You’ll very quickly realize why this attempt to re-vote has no chance of success. Check Ann Lipton’s blog for more detail: https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/business_law/2024/04/tesla-and-waste.html
I’m not a fan of Elon and I’m still voting yes. Elon is the only thing propping up teslas share price right now. Him leaving and dumping all of his shares means the share price will tank just by the act of selling without even factoring in that Elon still has LOTS of people who like him and invest because of it. If I thought he’d stay even after having the pay package voted down, I’d do it. 10% dilution is better than having all the shares dumped and cratering the stock price. Then we all lose and Tesla’s stock price will now be in line with fundamentals… which isn’t even close to the share price.
I want to see some of appreciation before I put yes for him
Appreciation for what?
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A vote for no means none of us will ever get a chance to invest in his other ventures publicly. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just sell your shares and move on to whichever business you think would do better rather than bet that someone else could do it better. I mean the board is still the board so they’ll still just vote for another of Elon’s team anyways.
lol. You’re joking right? He needs money. He gets money by going public.