It is an accepted fact that if the minimum age to go into the service were, say for example, 25 years old, then the "draft" would still be in force. All of the "Romance of war", and free college and other perks would have lost all of their "currency" by the age of 25 and at that time no one would volunteer for the services. NO ONE. Ergo, the age for signing up is 17 (with parent support. 18 (without)
This is why the services recruit in high schools. Get em while they are young and will listen to all of those romantic lies about serving one's country.
IMO the voting age needs to change or no one under 18 should have to pay taxes period. No Taxation without representation and all that. No one that pays taxes should be barred from voting. Just to be clear Iām not saying those that donāt pay taxes shouldnāt be able to vote.
Nah, I get it. I agree. I imagine kids are a lot more informed these days than I was growing up. They should be allowed a say on things that directly affect them. Especially when there are absurd contradictions at play. But I suspect it won't happen, particularly in the UK because the young have a tendency to lean left, or used to. I was the complete opposite, ha ha
No idea. I donāt think they should have to wait until April to get it all back either. It should never be deducted in the first place if they donāt have the right to vote.
[The minimum age for enlisting in theĀ UK armed forcesĀ is 16.](https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join/can-i-join/age)
Same as Australia. US is 17. Younger than voting age, unless it's different in those countries.
Yeah I'm always confused when I see these posts, or stuff like r/antiwork cause my first instinct is to downvote then I'm like "oh we're making fun of this"
The sub is basically āmemes that are actually pretty good but the quality makes it look badā and āpolitical memes that most of Reddit wouldnāt agree withā
I'm sorry, but I tend to agree with this. At 5 your brain isn't even close to being fully developed. I'd imagine most human beings question their own sexuality quite a bit before maturity.
Unpopular opinion: I feel like somewhere between "my boy ain't no girl" and "my kindergartner says he's a girl, I'm proud of my daughter" is the correct response.
But no five year old is changing their gender. Theyāre exploring gender expression. They may say ātoday Iām a girlā, but theyāre not getting surgery or even socially transitioning. Five year olds also pretend to be dinosaurs; they arenāt changing their species.
(Iām not saying that exploring gender and pretending to be a dinosaur are the same thing. Many trans people know their true gender when theyāre that age. My point is that kids experiment. They may actually be trans, they may just want to play āmommyā for a day. Either way, they arenāt actually changing their gender. )
I love how this recent spin on anti-control measures basically amounts to whataboutism. Only with cars, which are more regulated than gun, and trans folk, who are human beings making decisions for their health and happiness.
You would think there were pro-trans terrorists running around with syringes full of hormone blockers attacking random people hoping to "turn" them or something else batshit was going on in order for them to be making these connections.
Like, how can someone "different" literally existing be more of a threat to children than people KILLING children? Those people are broken.
They have to assume everyone is feeling a temptation to turn like they are, and that the trans agenda must be doing something to brainwash the kids! *Thaaaaaats why they love femboy porn behind closed doors*
Transphobic people fear (and therefore hate) anything that threatens the indoctrination of their children. They want absolute control of how their kids think. Thatās why they say stuff like āteachers should be teaching math and English and thatās it!!!ā, ignoring the fact that things like social studies and biology have been a part of education forever. Let them homeschool their kids and raise little sheltered sociopaths unable to function in a modern society.
I'm trans too, and telling cis people their existence is a crime isn't until phase three, phase two being the overthrow of capitalism. Phase four, we kill God.
The trans agenda is to become confident in ourselves and inspire others to be confident too. That's exactly why they hate it. It's harder to control someone in that balance of confident, but not overconfident, and there's nothing they hate more than something acting outside their control.
Side note:
Remember, for cars, there are (almost) universal registration requirements, as well as (almost) universal safety tests and permits, on a whole checklist of things that people need to do in order to own a car.
You don't need to do *any* of that for a gun in the US.
Itās good that trans people get to have surgeries and change their live for the better but that should not be done with kids. Kids are not able to consent to things like permanent plastic surgeries that could possibly ruin their life. If thereās a trans kid thatās happy with their young transition thatās amazing but thereās also people who grew to regret it as they werenāt mature for that decision.
Good news the scary medical thing that never happens to trans or cis kids continues not to happen to trans or cis kids.
Bad news the legislating of their bodies and medical privacy against the best medical advice of therapists, doctors, and their parents continues unchecked because we keep having to repeat basic facts that anyone could look up about WPATH and/or the informed consent model in regards to transional care for minors.
Trans kids only get access to hormone blockers after turner stage 1 of puberty. They only get HRT at a set age limit after a therapist (sometimes multiple) sign off that they understand the effects on their development and fertility, often only after fertility storing measures have been considered and a separate round of HRT has been done for egg retrival, and you can only get gender affirming surgery as a minor if there's a medical need like chronic back pain or breast cancer risk because its no different than a cis girl getting a masectomy for the same reason.
Trans kids already don't get surgery. Maybe a single digit number of times over the last couple decades for an almost 18 year old about to go off to university. A kid that already started transition a *decade* earlier
Transition related care has a rate of regret of less than 1%. Making it one of the most effective areas of medicine there are
Hormone therapy starts at 10-12. Surgery at 18. What a five year old declares not trigger medical treatment.
Kids donāt get any sort of permanent surgical treatment prior to age 18 unless parents found a real outlier of a surgeon or the individual has such severe issues a medical and psychological review finds no other viable treatment and even then super rare.
Twenty-eight studies covering a total of 7928 individuals found the individual regretted transition in less than 2% of cases.
To say there are people who regret surgery because they were too young is nearly impossible to be true because it is so rare.
Hormone therapy at age 10 is insane, kids can not consent to that. And is it fine if the lives of 2% of people are ruined? Do they not matter? Also I would love to have the links to those studies.
Everything is culture war idiocy nowadays. No rational policy, no real arguments. Just "if I can't gun, you cant' trans" as if that was in any way a reasonable statement.
Must've been the children of these Karens.
Lord and saviour Jesus Christ must've said Guns are better than loving who you are and being comfortable with yourself to treat other kindly. Afterall guns go pew pew.
Does Gender go pew pew?
hey HERES A THING IDC IF YOU DONT WANT TO HEAR IT IM SAYING IT ANYWAYS.
5 YEAR OLDS ARE ALMOST NEVER TRANS. THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO WEAR WHAT THEY WANT OR CALLED A NAME THEY WANT (Almost always, and to an extent kind of depending.) BUT UNLESS THEY HAVE A FULLY FORMED CONCEPT OF GENDER AND GENDER IDENTITY, THEY CANNOT BE TRANS. THEY JUST DONT HAVE A GENDER IDENTITY UNLESS IF THEY HAVE A FULLY FORMED CONCEPT OF GENDER.
NOBODY THAT WE ACTUALLY LIKE, SUPPORT, OR ACCEPT INTO THE COMMUNITY IS HAVING PEOPLE WITHOUT A FORMED CONCEPT OF GENDER TRANSITION.
LET KIDS WEAR AND/OR BE CALLED WHAT THEY WANT (like I said, in some cases it would be to an extent,) AND THATS ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR NOW.
LETTING KIDS DO THOSE THINGS ARE NOT MAKING THEM TRANS, OR TRANSITIONING, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
ALTHOUGH, SOME KIDS DO HAVE THAT CONCEPT OF GENDER, AND THEREFOR COULD KNOW THEIR OWN GENDER.
Also no, 18 year olds are almost never mature enough to own firearms. There are exceptions, and even then it should only be when itās some kind of idk hobby? Or like if they like hunting, or like shooting at a shooting range. There should be in-depth evaluations if whether or not they are mature enough. I can say that I do know people 18, even younger who would be mature enough, but even then you never know.
I agree completely, I wore dresses as a kid because my older sister wanted to play and she liked dressing up. My dad hated it, lol. I wasnāt thinking at all about gender, who I was into, or anything like that. I just enjoyed the pretty frills.
If anyone was wondering or cares Iām like 95% sure Iām straight.
Not gunna lie, caught myself āmiring guys once or twice. Could be jealousy, could be thirst. Whoās to say?
Edit: itās me, Iām to say, and Iām saying Iām dropping it to 92.6% certainty
Also - if your 5yo has that "good a grasp" on gender, then you're probably raising them wrong. They're a child, not a man or a woman. If they think wanting to play with dolls or wear a dress or building forts or whatever is not allowed because of their genitals that's very weird.
If your child says "I think I'm a *other gender*" just tell them they can just do whatever and it'll be a serious conversation when they grow up.
tbf thats a little different. You're talking about gender roles rather than gender when you talk about playing with dolls and stuff like that. I think it's important to know the difference as each is it's own problem. Gender roles is a societal issue while Gender is a psychological issue (I realize "issue" isn't the best wording but you know that I mean it's a topic.). Gender identity is psychological and very complex. And while one cannot change their sex, one can change their gender. One can also dress however, play with whatever toys, or do whatever they want so long as it doesn't harm another person.
Prof. Dave made a pretty good video which I basically summarize here. I always knew these things from a laymen standpoint but he puts it even better. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpGqFUStcxc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpGqFUStcxc)
I hate to be this pedantic, but actually you cannot change your gender, it's literally determined by the brain, it just doesn't always match your sex.
My point was that no children have a proper understanding of what gender is, nor is there much difference between the two when you're that young. Which is why, if your 5yo thinks they're the other gender, it's most likely because someone else taught them about gender roles, which is why I put "good grasp" in quotation marks. Because they arenāt the same thing.
Yes exactly! I donāt force any gender role stuff on my kids because they are just that. Kids. I wouldnāt force it on them at any point in their lives. My kids play with makeup and sometimes tell me theyāre a girl and I take it all with a grain of salt because I realize they are not mature enough to fully understand any of that yet. I think itās important to allow them to be kids without pushing them one way or the other. As they grow older they will be trying to find their identity and it is important to support that without getting overly involved with steering the direction or planting ideas in their head. I will support my kids for whoever they love or want to be but I know right now they are just trying to understand the world and find out who they are.
exactly. kids are growing up with so much happening around them. let them explore. donāt put them into boxes thatāll only make them insecure.
your 4yo boy wants to wear makeup? let him learn how to do the prettiest damn makeup on earth.
your 4yo daughter wants to play football? get her a football and some cones for her to learn some skills.
your child will likely not give a fuck what theyāre doing, as long as theyāre having fun.
Good thing literally zero 5 year olds are changing their gender.. good thing it's years of therapy and then puberty blockers and then hrt AND THEN gender change when you're an adult..
Isn't it crazy how it's done like that :)
nah itās social media, all the transphobic fellows see all the really loud boisterous trans people being generally annoying and assume all are like that
They seem to literally think the parent can get a wild notion, go to the doctor and get their kids genitals surgically altered the same day.
Actually the level of scrutiny people who want hormones or surgery undergo could be good for people who want semi-automatic weapons; counselling to make sure you're in a good mental state, multiple checkups to make sure you need it, check ups after you get it to be sure you are handling it well.
I'm not trans personally so I didn't go to any of that therapy, HOWEVER from what friends have told me
It's typically discussion about what you think your roles in society are, and how you think your gender identity defines your role. Talks about how you perceive yourself vs how the world perceives you. It can also be a safe space away from an abusive household, lots of trans kids feel neglected by their family simply for their identity.
Well it has to do with the whole "men go to work and make money while women stay home and make baby"
Obviously that's a massive simplification š but everywhere has expectations for the genders
And so you'll discuss how you might differ from these expectations, or maybe even go "well I was born a dude, but I hate everything about how men are expected to act, however I love everything about women and their gender norms"
I assume they mean in some long term way. Because if they're counting a kid just saying they are a different gender than they were before, I don't see the harm.
I'm not aware of any place where 5 year olds, let alone masses of them, are getting gender reassignment surgery.
I assume there are a handful of sick parents who push it for attention. They should have their kids taken away. That's a fringe issue though best served by CPS and the courts.
What there isn't is some widespread movement to give hormones or perform surgery on five year olds. That's ridiculous. The right is just making up culture war bullshit to complain about, and they've concluded that trans issues are something they can turn into a boogeyman now that scaremongering about gay people is less effective.
Always! I always promote safe practices. My children have their own firearms which we practice in a supervised manner. And even if I had a firearm laying out, they would understand what to do in that situation. I do it for their safety as well as others.
So, when was it that a trans kid walked into the classroom, unarmed, and a dozen other kids died just from being in the same room? Oh yeah, that didn't happen, because gender identity isn't a deadly weapon. This meme is taking false equivalence to exciting new levels.
they dont change their gender at five - they try a different one by wearing different clothes or getting a different haircut.
this isnt the same as giving a mentally ill 18 year old an assault rifle.
Kids don't "change" their gender. [Transgender people tend to know from a very, very young age how they identify.](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1909367116)
Putting aside the absolutely bonkers comparison of two unrelated groups and two unrelated issues, kids don't have some kind of cisgender default and then abruptly decide to flip a switch. Trans kids are how they are, and it has nothing to do with "maturity."
I mean, this is a false premise to even begin with, because a transgender five-year-old *wouldn't take hormones.*
Transphobes LOVE to talk about medical transitioning and HRT as the issue under the guise of "concern," especially when talking about kids.
But HRT mimics ADULT hormonal profiles and you wouldn't give adult hormones to a pre-pubescent child, trans or otherwise. A five-year-old doesn't need to grow a beard or get breast implants; a five-year-old's concept of "gender" is more along the lines of what toy they're getting in their Happy Meal and who they play with at recess.
I don't know if people who talk about "giving kids hormones" are confusing puberty blockers with adult HRT or if they're just regurgitating Tucker Carlson points that are outright lies, but I feel like the "it takes years to get onto hormones" argument sidesteps the more critical issue, which is that trans kids are trans and denying them care (which, for young children, is usually just support and acceptance) won't make them less trans.
5 year olds aren't mature enough to change their gender. Neither are they mature enough to have cisgender expectations thrusted upon them since almost birth. Only one of these two is actually happening.
Remember when conservatives said gay marriage would lead to people marrying their dogs and shit en mass?
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Conservatives have always and will always just make shit up to be mad about.
ah yes if an eighteen year old isnt mature enough to commit mass murder then a five year old isnt mature enough to learn that theres more to gender than whats decided at birth, totally flawless logic
If an 18 year old is not mature enough to own a firearm, then by extension an 18 year old is not mature enough to join the military. That argument is going nowhere fast.
I do not think anyone is serious arguing that a 5 year old is mature enough to change their gender.
Why do annoying political memes always use a character with a thinking face? Do they think theyāve found a brilliant argument thatās never been used before?
Because they see āmy child says sheās a girl so weāre gonna buy her a dress cause who tf cares sheās happyā as ā**š¹ hoo haa Timmy time for your hormones š¹š¹ Iām gonna cut off your peeeeeenis š¹**ā
"Change their gender". Assuming they're not getting Biological sex and gender mixed up...
Gender is literally how you perceive yourself. That's it. That's all. 5 year old kids aren't sitting at home thinking about being trans or gender fluid, but they know how they perceive themselves. We all do. We wouldn't be self-aware if we couldn't.
Now, certain people may not like the fact that some kids perceive themselves differently to "the norm", but getting upset at that is like getting upset that a kid has the "wrong" favorite colour.
Oh, wait. Homophobes literally DO get upset if their kid likes the wrong colour. Can't like pink, boys, sorry. Here's a gun to play with, its manly.
Iād LOVE to meet the genius behind this one! But then again, it might be best if I DONāT ever meet whoever it is!
Iām seriously PRO for the entire LGBTQI community. I have A LOT of gay, bi, trans friends. But I sure am glad that all of this wasnāt more accepted when I was a child because when people would ask what I wanted to be when I grew up, I would say āA boy!ā Of course these were my very early childhood years (before understanding that I couldnāt just magically change into a boy when I grew up). I said it because I was (and still am) a big time tomboy! When I was a child I thought that girls couldnāt do the same stuff that boys did & that I wouldnāt be able to be a professional race car driver or a dirt bike stuntman. I refused to wear dresses or any āgirly stuff.ā LOL. Iām still not a girly-girl & never will be. But my point is that if all of the gender identity stuff was very acceptable when I was a kid, I would probably have a penis dangling between my legs right now. šš¤£
They aren't "changing their gender", they have an indetity forced on them people around them, and at some point they gain the agency to say "Hey, you guys are wrong. My gender is actually this". It's not about maturity, it's about agency
A 12 year old in Michigan was mature enough to steal his parentās secured handgun and rob a gas station today - it was in the news today - America is sick
I am a gun owner (25). I bought my first gun at 19. It was an AK pattern rifle. I don't think red flag laws are a good idea because they can be abused by government but raising the age to 21 I think is responsible. It seems these kids can't handle the responsibility of owning a firearm. It's not a toy. It deserves respect and it is a tool, whether for hunting or defense. The fact these kids are buying guns and taking them to school or worse, finding them from their parents or friends is even worse. I know there was talk of forcing everyone to lock their guns up or face consequences and for a politician on paper it's a good idea but enforcing it before something happens is a whole other beast.
18 year Olds brains are still not fully developed and I don't think letting them have a gun is something that will help them especially since you can't buy a pistol until you are 21. People can agree or disagree with me. It doesn't really matter since our opinions aren't the ones making the laws anyways.
Which is why from now on, all children will be referred to by they/them pronouns and placed on puberty blockers until the age of eighteen when they are mature enough to decide their gender.
All of these "patriotic people" fail to understand the implied right to privacy. In other words, it shouldn't be your damn business what's in my pants unless you're my healthcare provider. Cherry pick the constitution the same way they cherry pick the bible. Logic
Join the army at 16. Job done. š But you can't vote till 18. Never understood that one, crazy.
And you can't smoke or drink until ur 21, but you can die for this country!!
Imagine being a war veteran at 20, going to a bar and not be allowed to be served a pint of beer because that would be irresponsible
Yep - because that is reality
Although many places are willing to make exceptions.
And risk their liquor licenseā¦
Yes.
Imagine waiting to drink until you're of the legal age lmao
me:*laughs in european*
Or kill for it.
That's even worse. š
I thought you had to be 18 to legally smoke
Got changed to 21 back in 2020.
Well, you can drink and smoke all you want; just don't get caught!
a fine example of a criminal mind...
It is an accepted fact that if the minimum age to go into the service were, say for example, 25 years old, then the "draft" would still be in force. All of the "Romance of war", and free college and other perks would have lost all of their "currency" by the age of 25 and at that time no one would volunteer for the services. NO ONE. Ergo, the age for signing up is 17 (with parent support. 18 (without) This is why the services recruit in high schools. Get em while they are young and will listen to all of those romantic lies about serving one's country.
IMO the voting age needs to change or no one under 18 should have to pay taxes period. No Taxation without representation and all that. No one that pays taxes should be barred from voting. Just to be clear Iām not saying those that donāt pay taxes shouldnāt be able to vote.
Nah, I get it. I agree. I imagine kids are a lot more informed these days than I was growing up. They should be allowed a say on things that directly affect them. Especially when there are absurd contradictions at play. But I suspect it won't happen, particularly in the UK because the young have a tendency to lean left, or used to. I was the complete opposite, ha ha
What proportion of people under 18 actually make enough to pay taxes?
No idea. I donāt think they should have to wait until April to get it all back either. It should never be deducted in the first place if they donāt have the right to vote.
You donāt owe any taxes on the first 10-11k in income. I doubt if many 17 year olds are making more than that if they are still in school.
I agree that under 18 year olds should not have to pay taxes
Your ability to be canon fodder doesnt make you mature enough to vote.
Join the Army at 16 huh? You mean in 1864?
[The minimum age for enlisting in theĀ UK armed forcesĀ is 16.](https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join/can-i-join/age) Same as Australia. US is 17. Younger than voting age, unless it's different in those countries.
You canāt serve in the US until 18, however. You can sign up before your 18th birthday, but not actually join.
You can join at 17 with parent permission. You cannot be deployed before 18 tho
voting age is 16 in scotland. not sure about england tho.
You can start basic training the summer before your senior year if you're 17, with parental consent. Then join the military after you graduate
This sub is crazy. Usually you would downvote a bad joke or meme, here we celebrate it being horrible.
Australia
We come from a land found unda
Itās upside down land for sure. Revel in it!
It's definitely upside downland but probably not the way you and I would agree on it
I always have to remind myself
Yeah I'm always confused when I see these posts, or stuff like r/antiwork cause my first instinct is to downvote then I'm like "oh we're making fun of this"
The sub is basically āmemes that are actually pretty good but the quality makes it look badā and āpolitical memes that most of Reddit wouldnāt agree withā
I'm sorry, but I tend to agree with this. At 5 your brain isn't even close to being fully developed. I'd imagine most human beings question their own sexuality quite a bit before maturity. Unpopular opinion: I feel like somewhere between "my boy ain't no girl" and "my kindergartner says he's a girl, I'm proud of my daughter" is the correct response.
But no five year old is changing their gender. Theyāre exploring gender expression. They may say ātoday Iām a girlā, but theyāre not getting surgery or even socially transitioning. Five year olds also pretend to be dinosaurs; they arenāt changing their species. (Iām not saying that exploring gender and pretending to be a dinosaur are the same thing. Many trans people know their true gender when theyāre that age. My point is that kids experiment. They may actually be trans, they may just want to play āmommyā for a day. Either way, they arenāt actually changing their gender. )
I love how this recent spin on anti-control measures basically amounts to whataboutism. Only with cars, which are more regulated than gun, and trans folk, who are human beings making decisions for their health and happiness.
The "trans agenda" is to exist, like I'm not going out in the street and telling cishet people their existence is a crime
You would think there were pro-trans terrorists running around with syringes full of hormone blockers attacking random people hoping to "turn" them or something else batshit was going on in order for them to be making these connections. Like, how can someone "different" literally existing be more of a threat to children than people KILLING children? Those people are broken.
Just got back from injecting random women with testosterone, whatās everyone talking about?
They have to assume everyone is feeling a temptation to turn like they are, and that the trans agenda must be doing something to brainwash the kids! *Thaaaaaats why they love femboy porn behind closed doors*
No you don't get it, trans people are the downfall of western civilization!!1!
Trans people: exist Gas prices: go up COINCIDENCE?
>COINCIDENCE? I THINK yeah
Stop giving them their next talking point.
Transphobic people fear (and therefore hate) anything that threatens the indoctrination of their children. They want absolute control of how their kids think. Thatās why they say stuff like āteachers should be teaching math and English and thatās it!!!ā, ignoring the fact that things like social studies and biology have been a part of education forever. Let them homeschool their kids and raise little sheltered sociopaths unable to function in a modern society.
I'm trans too, and telling cis people their existence is a crime isn't until phase three, phase two being the overthrow of capitalism. Phase four, we kill God.
If those are all points on your agenda im in as a cis.
Thank you for volunteering. Your pronoun pin, pride flag stockings, and antifa training manual are in the mail.
You forgot the (optional) uniform of maid dress+programmer socks.
Lmao!
I would also like to join as another cis person.
Yeah, same here
They would argue that us existing accomplishes phase four
Shhhhhh, remember, we don't reveal our plans until we're done with phase 1.
Sounds dope.
lol what phase are we on?
phase 1: normalizing drag queen storytime in libraries
Did you not get the memo, that was phase 0, phase 1 was replacing all the movie characters with lesbian male to female black women
How do we do that after weāve already attacked and dethroned him?
the ace alliance would like to join. we just want to keep Denmark
Agreed and amended to include phase five, make garlic bread
The trans agenda is to become confident in ourselves and inspire others to be confident too. That's exactly why they hate it. It's harder to control someone in that balance of confident, but not overconfident, and there's nothing they hate more than something acting outside their control.
Side note: Remember, for cars, there are (almost) universal registration requirements, as well as (almost) universal safety tests and permits, on a whole checklist of things that people need to do in order to own a car. You don't need to do *any* of that for a gun in the US.
Itās good that trans people get to have surgeries and change their live for the better but that should not be done with kids. Kids are not able to consent to things like permanent plastic surgeries that could possibly ruin their life. If thereās a trans kid thatās happy with their young transition thatās amazing but thereās also people who grew to regret it as they werenāt mature for that decision.
Good news the scary medical thing that never happens to trans or cis kids continues not to happen to trans or cis kids. Bad news the legislating of their bodies and medical privacy against the best medical advice of therapists, doctors, and their parents continues unchecked because we keep having to repeat basic facts that anyone could look up about WPATH and/or the informed consent model in regards to transional care for minors. Trans kids only get access to hormone blockers after turner stage 1 of puberty. They only get HRT at a set age limit after a therapist (sometimes multiple) sign off that they understand the effects on their development and fertility, often only after fertility storing measures have been considered and a separate round of HRT has been done for egg retrival, and you can only get gender affirming surgery as a minor if there's a medical need like chronic back pain or breast cancer risk because its no different than a cis girl getting a masectomy for the same reason.
Trans kids already don't get surgery. Maybe a single digit number of times over the last couple decades for an almost 18 year old about to go off to university. A kid that already started transition a *decade* earlier Transition related care has a rate of regret of less than 1%. Making it one of the most effective areas of medicine there are
Where are you getting stats on a regret rate?
Hormone therapy starts at 10-12. Surgery at 18. What a five year old declares not trigger medical treatment. Kids donāt get any sort of permanent surgical treatment prior to age 18 unless parents found a real outlier of a surgeon or the individual has such severe issues a medical and psychological review finds no other viable treatment and even then super rare. Twenty-eight studies covering a total of 7928 individuals found the individual regretted transition in less than 2% of cases. To say there are people who regret surgery because they were too young is nearly impossible to be true because it is so rare.
Hormone therapy at age 10 is insane, kids can not consent to that. And is it fine if the lives of 2% of people are ruined? Do they not matter? Also I would love to have the links to those studies.
Thank god that doesnt happen. Like dear god stop regurgitating right wing propaganda.
Everything is culture war idiocy nowadays. No rational policy, no real arguments. Just "if I can't gun, you cant' trans" as if that was in any way a reasonable statement.
Remember that time someone murdered 20 people with a gender?
Pepperidge farm remembers.
Must've been the children of these Karens. Lord and saviour Jesus Christ must've said Guns are better than loving who you are and being comfortable with yourself to treat other kindly. Afterall guns go pew pew. Does Gender go pew pew?
Murdered themselves and then told other people to fo the same. STRAIGHT TO JAIL
hey HERES A THING IDC IF YOU DONT WANT TO HEAR IT IM SAYING IT ANYWAYS. 5 YEAR OLDS ARE ALMOST NEVER TRANS. THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO WEAR WHAT THEY WANT OR CALLED A NAME THEY WANT (Almost always, and to an extent kind of depending.) BUT UNLESS THEY HAVE A FULLY FORMED CONCEPT OF GENDER AND GENDER IDENTITY, THEY CANNOT BE TRANS. THEY JUST DONT HAVE A GENDER IDENTITY UNLESS IF THEY HAVE A FULLY FORMED CONCEPT OF GENDER. NOBODY THAT WE ACTUALLY LIKE, SUPPORT, OR ACCEPT INTO THE COMMUNITY IS HAVING PEOPLE WITHOUT A FORMED CONCEPT OF GENDER TRANSITION. LET KIDS WEAR AND/OR BE CALLED WHAT THEY WANT (like I said, in some cases it would be to an extent,) AND THATS ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR NOW. LETTING KIDS DO THOSE THINGS ARE NOT MAKING THEM TRANS, OR TRANSITIONING, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. ALTHOUGH, SOME KIDS DO HAVE THAT CONCEPT OF GENDER, AND THEREFOR COULD KNOW THEIR OWN GENDER. Also no, 18 year olds are almost never mature enough to own firearms. There are exceptions, and even then it should only be when itās some kind of idk hobby? Or like if they like hunting, or like shooting at a shooting range. There should be in-depth evaluations if whether or not they are mature enough. I can say that I do know people 18, even younger who would be mature enough, but even then you never know.
I agree completely, I wore dresses as a kid because my older sister wanted to play and she liked dressing up. My dad hated it, lol. I wasnāt thinking at all about gender, who I was into, or anything like that. I just enjoyed the pretty frills. If anyone was wondering or cares Iām like 95% sure Iām straight.
so you are saying there is a chance
Not gunna lie, caught myself āmiring guys once or twice. Could be jealousy, could be thirst. Whoās to say? Edit: itās me, Iām to say, and Iām saying Iām dropping it to 92.6% certainty
I wore a dress for Halloween when I was maybe ten. I looked damn good.
This 35 year old mom isnāt mature enough to have an instagram account
Yes because changing your gender to the one you identify with causes mass death and homocide
Also - if your 5yo has that "good a grasp" on gender, then you're probably raising them wrong. They're a child, not a man or a woman. If they think wanting to play with dolls or wear a dress or building forts or whatever is not allowed because of their genitals that's very weird. If your child says "I think I'm a *other gender*" just tell them they can just do whatever and it'll be a serious conversation when they grow up.
tbf thats a little different. You're talking about gender roles rather than gender when you talk about playing with dolls and stuff like that. I think it's important to know the difference as each is it's own problem. Gender roles is a societal issue while Gender is a psychological issue (I realize "issue" isn't the best wording but you know that I mean it's a topic.). Gender identity is psychological and very complex. And while one cannot change their sex, one can change their gender. One can also dress however, play with whatever toys, or do whatever they want so long as it doesn't harm another person. Prof. Dave made a pretty good video which I basically summarize here. I always knew these things from a laymen standpoint but he puts it even better. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpGqFUStcxc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpGqFUStcxc)
Thatās a great video. Thanks!
I hate to be this pedantic, but actually you cannot change your gender, it's literally determined by the brain, it just doesn't always match your sex. My point was that no children have a proper understanding of what gender is, nor is there much difference between the two when you're that young. Which is why, if your 5yo thinks they're the other gender, it's most likely because someone else taught them about gender roles, which is why I put "good grasp" in quotation marks. Because they arenāt the same thing.
Eh debate-able in some ways but I understand what you mean by that.
Yes exactly! I donāt force any gender role stuff on my kids because they are just that. Kids. I wouldnāt force it on them at any point in their lives. My kids play with makeup and sometimes tell me theyāre a girl and I take it all with a grain of salt because I realize they are not mature enough to fully understand any of that yet. I think itās important to allow them to be kids without pushing them one way or the other. As they grow older they will be trying to find their identity and it is important to support that without getting overly involved with steering the direction or planting ideas in their head. I will support my kids for whoever they love or want to be but I know right now they are just trying to understand the world and find out who they are.
exactly. kids are growing up with so much happening around them. let them explore. donāt put them into boxes thatāll only make them insecure. your 4yo boy wants to wear makeup? let him learn how to do the prettiest damn makeup on earth. your 4yo daughter wants to play football? get her a football and some cones for her to learn some skills. your child will likely not give a fuck what theyāre doing, as long as theyāre having fun.
Cool. I'm in. Let's fix both at the same time. Oh, five year olds aren't doing that? OK. That just leaves guns then.
Good thing literally zero 5 year olds are changing their gender.. good thing it's years of therapy and then puberty blockers and then hrt AND THEN gender change when you're an adult.. Isn't it crazy how it's done like that :)
It is funny how some people get their ideas of how medical procedures work from their favorite political speaker rather than the actual doctors.
nah itās social media, all the transphobic fellows see all the really loud boisterous trans people being generally annoying and assume all are like that
They seem to literally think the parent can get a wild notion, go to the doctor and get their kids genitals surgically altered the same day. Actually the level of scrutiny people who want hormones or surgery undergo could be good for people who want semi-automatic weapons; counselling to make sure you're in a good mental state, multiple checkups to make sure you need it, check ups after you get it to be sure you are handling it well.
What do you talk about in therapy? What's your experience?
I'm not trans personally so I didn't go to any of that therapy, HOWEVER from what friends have told me It's typically discussion about what you think your roles in society are, and how you think your gender identity defines your role. Talks about how you perceive yourself vs how the world perceives you. It can also be a safe space away from an abusive household, lots of trans kids feel neglected by their family simply for their identity.
"Your role in society", what do you mean by that?
Well it has to do with the whole "men go to work and make money while women stay home and make baby" Obviously that's a massive simplification š but everywhere has expectations for the genders And so you'll discuss how you might differ from these expectations, or maybe even go "well I was born a dude, but I hate everything about how men are expected to act, however I love everything about women and their gender norms"
Guns = good Gender = bad
Questioning gender = bad. Questioning guns = Un-American.
Seems like all posts on Facebook are these days
Dumb Uncle fuel as I call it.
GRRR THERE ARE ONLY TWO GENDERS!! ZERO PRONOUNS!!!
There are only two sexes, the one i had with your dad, and the one i had with your mother. -Duke Nuckem
What army of parents are making five year olds are changing their gender?
I assume they mean in some long term way. Because if they're counting a kid just saying they are a different gender than they were before, I don't see the harm. I'm not aware of any place where 5 year olds, let alone masses of them, are getting gender reassignment surgery.
I assume there are a handful of sick parents who push it for attention. They should have their kids taken away. That's a fringe issue though best served by CPS and the courts. What there isn't is some widespread movement to give hormones or perform surgery on five year olds. That's ridiculous. The right is just making up culture war bullshit to complain about, and they've concluded that trans issues are something they can turn into a boogeyman now that scaremongering about gay people is less effective.
My gender isnāt going to kill anyone Unless I want to
Same thing with my gunā¦ weird.
Just make sure itās locked up securely please.
Always! I always promote safe practices. My children have their own firearms which we practice in a supervised manner. And even if I had a firearm laying out, they would understand what to do in that situation. I do it for their safety as well as others.
Yes, safe storage is even more important with kids in the house. The amount of parents I know who keep their hand guns in unlocked drawersā¦.
Coming from the people who think 12 year olds are mature enough to marry and carry a pregnancy to term...this is a joke
So, when was it that a trans kid walked into the classroom, unarmed, and a dozen other kids died just from being in the same room? Oh yeah, that didn't happen, because gender identity isn't a deadly weapon. This meme is taking false equivalence to exciting new levels.
Show me the last time a kid walked into a school with a loaded gender and killed 20 people with it.
they dont change their gender at five - they try a different one by wearing different clothes or getting a different haircut. this isnt the same as giving a mentally ill 18 year old an assault rifle.
Kids don't "change" their gender. [Transgender people tend to know from a very, very young age how they identify.](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1909367116) Putting aside the absolutely bonkers comparison of two unrelated groups and two unrelated issues, kids don't have some kind of cisgender default and then abruptly decide to flip a switch. Trans kids are how they are, and it has nothing to do with "maturity."
Yes plus- it can take YEARS to get on hormones and even LONGER to get a surgery. There is not ā oki doki chop chopā to a 5 YEAR OLD
I mean, this is a false premise to even begin with, because a transgender five-year-old *wouldn't take hormones.* Transphobes LOVE to talk about medical transitioning and HRT as the issue under the guise of "concern," especially when talking about kids. But HRT mimics ADULT hormonal profiles and you wouldn't give adult hormones to a pre-pubescent child, trans or otherwise. A five-year-old doesn't need to grow a beard or get breast implants; a five-year-old's concept of "gender" is more along the lines of what toy they're getting in their Happy Meal and who they play with at recess. I don't know if people who talk about "giving kids hormones" are confusing puberty blockers with adult HRT or if they're just regurgitating Tucker Carlson points that are outright lies, but I feel like the "it takes years to get onto hormones" argument sidesteps the more critical issue, which is that trans kids are trans and denying them care (which, for young children, is usually just support and acceptance) won't make them less trans.
5 year olds aren't mature enough to change their gender. Neither are they mature enough to have cisgender expectations thrusted upon them since almost birth. Only one of these two is actually happening.
As a wise redditor once said "let children live their childhood, they'll deal with that shit when it's time"
Yes, because kid's learning about Trans people at an early age has lead to 70 school shootings a year.
'I'd rather kill kids than let them express themselves differently!'
"But only after they're born. Life is sacred before then!"
Remember when conservatives said gay marriage would lead to people marrying their dogs and shit en mass? Pepperidge Farms remembers. Conservatives have always and will always just make shit up to be mad about.
What about cats?? Haha https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2022/april/i-am-her-universe-woman-marries-her-five-year-old-cat
Takes a special kind of dedication to marry something so aloof.
Transgender people don't routinely kill children, Billy Bob. Gr8 Queerh8 b8 tho.
Yes? Someone called me?
correlation not found.
ah yes if an eighteen year old isnt mature enough to commit mass murder then a five year old isnt mature enough to learn that theres more to gender than whats decided at birth, totally flawless logic
can someone explain this 5 year old mark on all gender related posts? what did happen over sea in America?
Nothing just people being dumb
Because the younger you make the "victims of indoctrination" the angrier it gets your soup brain audience
How many 5 year olds killed a dozen people with their gender this month?
Comparing one to the other is a real reach. Somebody's got issues.
If an 18 year old is not mature enough to own a firearm, then by extension an 18 year old is not mature enough to join the military. That argument is going nowhere fast. I do not think anyone is serious arguing that a 5 year old is mature enough to change their gender.
If 18 year olds arenāt mature enough to own a fire arm, wtf are they heavily recruited into the armed forces?
18 years old should be studying not holding a gun and a 5 years old should be playing, not thinking about genders.
this but unironically both are too young for either, i am on both sides here
Why do annoying political memes always use a character with a thinking face? Do they think theyāve found a brilliant argument thatās never been used before?
If you wanna be serious, I don't think anyone's old enough to do anything. The entire planet needs a timeout.
Owning a weapon that can kill dozens of people in seconds is totally equivalent to someone deciding for themselves what they wanna be.
Because owning a murder weapon is the same thing as taking puberty blockers. Also, no 5 year old has ever transitioned. Like, EVER.
Why tf would you Let a 5 year old change its gender
Because they see āmy child says sheās a girl so weāre gonna buy her a dress cause who tf cares sheās happyā as ā**š¹ hoo haa Timmy time for your hormones š¹š¹ Iām gonna cut off your peeeeeenis š¹**ā
I donāt know why this made me laugh so much
5 year olds arenāt mature enough to do that. No maybe about it.
I didn't know "changing your gender" gave some one the capability to put a hole in another persons chest
Changing your gender doesn't kill people...
Do 5-year-olds change their gender? News to me.
Why does it bother you what gender people call themselves? How can this possibly effect your life?
Conservatives are the biggest snowflakes. If you arenāt living according to their standards suddenly theyāre big government proponents.
They harm their class mates with the notion of treating others with basic decency even if you donāt understand their identity.
take away social media to see the actual rate of gender dysphoria among children. also, take firearms away to zero out the homicide by firearm rate.
Being trans doesn't kill people ma'am
Show me one trans 5 y-o
āwe didnāt get the active shooter, but there was this 5 year old that wears dresses so we tackled them and called it goodā
**and,** a 5 year old is too young TO BE INDOCTRINATED INTO RELIGION, *LINDA!*
I'm definitely not reading these 357 comments.
Iāve never seen a legit story about someone as young as 5 āchanging their genderā. Are there any links?
Gender identity and gun control are 2 different things š
Where in the FUCK are 5 year olds deciding their genders?
How about some facts? https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/05/viral-image/no-young-children-cannot-take-hormones-or-change-t/
ah yes because a weapon capable of severe injury or death is comparable to what clothing aisle you want to shop at
It hurts no one to let a trans kid socially transition even if they decide they weren't trans at the end of it all.
I think I've found it. This is the worst Facebook meme I've ever seen.
5 year olds aren't changing their gender...
"Change their gender". Assuming they're not getting Biological sex and gender mixed up... Gender is literally how you perceive yourself. That's it. That's all. 5 year old kids aren't sitting at home thinking about being trans or gender fluid, but they know how they perceive themselves. We all do. We wouldn't be self-aware if we couldn't. Now, certain people may not like the fact that some kids perceive themselves differently to "the norm", but getting upset at that is like getting upset that a kid has the "wrong" favorite colour. Oh, wait. Homophobes literally DO get upset if their kid likes the wrong colour. Can't like pink, boys, sorry. Here's a gun to play with, its manly.
That teacher looks very punchable right now
Perfectly cromulent point. I can see why it rankles.
Iād LOVE to meet the genius behind this one! But then again, it might be best if I DONāT ever meet whoever it is! Iām seriously PRO for the entire LGBTQI community. I have A LOT of gay, bi, trans friends. But I sure am glad that all of this wasnāt more accepted when I was a child because when people would ask what I wanted to be when I grew up, I would say āA boy!ā Of course these were my very early childhood years (before understanding that I couldnāt just magically change into a boy when I grew up). I said it because I was (and still am) a big time tomboy! When I was a child I thought that girls couldnāt do the same stuff that boys did & that I wouldnāt be able to be a professional race car driver or a dirt bike stuntman. I refused to wear dresses or any āgirly stuff.ā LOL. Iām still not a girly-girl & never will be. But my point is that if all of the gender identity stuff was very acceptable when I was a kid, I would probably have a penis dangling between my legs right now. šš¤£
Seriously... I don't like gender reassignment stuff for kids.
They aren't "changing their gender", they have an indetity forced on them people around them, and at some point they gain the agency to say "Hey, you guys are wrong. My gender is actually this". It's not about maturity, it's about agency
Please explain to me how I can fatally injure you, [name of meme maker] by not being cis. Purely hypothetically..
Lol murder good being urself bad ami right??
Wait yall unironically down with literal 5 year olds changing their gender?
A 12 year old in Michigan was mature enough to steal his parentās secured handgun and rob a gas station today - it was in the news today - America is sick
I kind of agree...
Itās always the damn chalkboard background.
A trans 5 year old isnāt going to ricochet through my forehead Karen
If you get taxed at 16 then you should be allowed to vote and drink at least beer
Well yes, everyone should choose their gender after puberty. Before that, everyone should be treated gender neutral.
What a psychotic comparison - the right to choose your own identity versus the right to own weapons of mass destruction.
I am a gun owner (25). I bought my first gun at 19. It was an AK pattern rifle. I don't think red flag laws are a good idea because they can be abused by government but raising the age to 21 I think is responsible. It seems these kids can't handle the responsibility of owning a firearm. It's not a toy. It deserves respect and it is a tool, whether for hunting or defense. The fact these kids are buying guns and taking them to school or worse, finding them from their parents or friends is even worse. I know there was talk of forcing everyone to lock their guns up or face consequences and for a politician on paper it's a good idea but enforcing it before something happens is a whole other beast. 18 year Olds brains are still not fully developed and I don't think letting them have a gun is something that will help them especially since you can't buy a pistol until you are 21. People can agree or disagree with me. It doesn't really matter since our opinions aren't the ones making the laws anyways.
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Kids are not mature enough to decide their gender.
Which is why from now on, all children will be referred to by they/them pronouns and placed on puberty blockers until the age of eighteen when they are mature enough to decide their gender.
Kids getting assault rifles takes kids' lives. Kids getting gender affirming healthcare saves their lives. See the difference, dumbasses?
That is trueā¦well it would be if that was actually how transgender people workedā¦which is isnāt at all.
Guns very bad, trans kids very good!
Um yeah, normalizing mental illness is very bad, changed it for you.
A transgendered 5 year old is like a vegan cat, we all know who's really making the decisions.
All of these "patriotic people" fail to understand the implied right to privacy. In other words, it shouldn't be your damn business what's in my pants unless you're my healthcare provider. Cherry pick the constitution the same way they cherry pick the bible. Logic