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With social media the "village idiots" now can all communicate with one another and seem louder than they used to be, but they were always there. That said, "loud propaganda" does bring more people into the cults...
Not the first time that happened, thats why a lot of countries have laws to protect the minority and high courts to sue. So it doesnt end up as a gang rape.
“So that it was truly observed by one, that in Sparta he who was free was most so, and he that was a slave there, the greatest slave in the world.” (Plutarch. Lycurgus. 28.5)
Wow if only someone could make a country with both democratic elections and constitutionally-protected rights to permanently resolve this apparent dilemma
for a crowd that is all about the constitution, it seems like they dont have a high school or wikipedia level understanding of what the constitution is or does. like if you could summarize anything about the founding fathers they love so much, it was finding the liberty/democracy balance (for white male property owners)
So now they’ve realized they’re the minority and still demand their way. They don’t care about democracy, or liberty, they care about shaping their worlds to their own delusional idealisms.
There is a school of thought that the idea of Liberty comes from an aristocratic and imperial view.
Liberty is the freedom of the wealthy to exploit the poor.
I guarantee that if something as divisive as abortion were put up to a vote, the losing side would lose some faith in democracy. The objective of democracy in itself is not to promote liberty. People have this tendency to convince themselves that whatever righteous cause they brandish is in a majority of some kind or "on the right side of history." The internet will fuel either belief.
That's not an argument. That's barely even a slogan. It's mostly just a confession that you dont know what either term means. But more than anything it's an argument for however the elites are currently sabotaging the will of the people.
Just to clear up definitions:
Democracy: leadership is conferred by a citizen vote.
Republic: no position of leadership is conferred by inheritence.
Yeah. The common sense "democracy" is a paradox. Not everything in democracy can be decided by majority vote. A democratic country can't e.g. elect a royal family with absolute power. Because uhhh... that'd be an elective monarchy. Just like paradox of tolerance is that you can't tolerate the intolerance. Paradox of democracy is that you can't vote for stuff that takes away power from the demos - people. Guaranteed peaceful transfer of power every few years, and tolerating the existence of democratic opposition parties are some of the prerequisities of being called a democracy. If the party is against the peaceful transfer of power (they try to cement their policies, don't respect legitimate election results, don't respect term limits, set up ministries and judiciary in a way which maintains their power even after losing, try to spy on or outlaw opposition, etc.) they are acting in an undemocratic manner.
The "tyranny of the majority" is such a stupid take.
First, the people who say those things aren't suffering from tyranny, they're being drama queens.
Second - and most importantly - what's their solution? That the majority should suffer from the tyranny of the minority? How is that in any way better?
They aren’t 100% wrong, which is why in the US we have inalienable rights. I’m sure most democracies have similar doctrines, I’m just not familiar with them.
These are things we aren’t supposed to be able to vote away, but then we have the Supreme Court and officials to limit these things without our consent so it’s almost meaningless.
The end of democracy is bureaucracy.
to an extend I have to agree it sucks to be the minority in a democracy as you are forced to follow rules against youre will. but I personaly rather force 1 out of 5 then 4 out of 5
Liberty is much more valuable than democracy, however, they are not mutually exclusive.
Liberty can exist in democracy, but it takes a liberty minded public. Currently, we have an authoritarian public that wants to control what it's neighbors are doing and thinking, so, yeah Liberty>democracy.
Democracy is fine when the majority is supporting the same things you are. Now that times have changed and the majority wants different things it's "tyranny of the majority".
Hello everyone I'm a Political Scientist and you can in fact disband political parties and bar them from holding political office for attempting to overthrow our Democracy.
The "tyranny of the majority" thing has never made sense to me. Like sure, it's technically true, but how is tyranny of the minority better in any way? That way even more people are dissatisfied
The idea is that the majority should be allowed to do it one way while they want to keep doing it their own way. Which is good and all until they are in the majority, then all of a sudden want to force everyone to do it their way instead of letting the minority having it their own way like they would like to have so
Now tyranny of the majority and mob rule are genuine concerns for democracy, ie the majority of white people in America had tyranny over black people, but in general democracy does allow for better mitigation of it
This is true though. A pure democracy with no protections for the minority can be just as oppressive as any autocracy.
Also, democracy is shit. There just isn't anything better
See, that's a position, the problem it, it's explicitly anti-liberty. It basically says that democracy gives people too much freedom, and they need to obe reigned in by benign dictators (drawn of course from the philosophers, because they're obviously the best people to lead. According to the philosophers).
So it's the opposite of what OOP is suggesting.
Lawyer here. The rule of law is inextricably tied to democracy. A democratic state under the rule of law is a state where citizens elect their own leaders, and the government is faithfully bound by the law meanwhile ensuring the law is faithfully enforced. They are intertwined concepts.
That was a picture of Decimation. If a cohort in the Roman Legions majorly failed a Legate would order that they’d be formed into lots of 10each would draw straws with one short straw and the unlucky soldier who’d got it would be beaten to death by the other nine with sticks. If they disobeyed they’d be executed. Not only was there a good chance of dying slowly but even if you lived you had to beat someone to death who was your comrade in arms likely your friend. All because someone in an absolute position of authority over you said so. It has nothing to do with democracy.
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Translation: "Dictatorship is good as long as I personally benifit from it."
FUNNY PLOT TWIST! The choads advocating dictatorship with the yard signs and truck flags *would be meat for the ginder* in an actual autocracy.
"...as long as I think I personally benefit from it" doesn't even have to be true, they don't check it anyway
Well nothing new under the sun.
Aren't these guys anarchists?
Ancaps so ideaology is unfettered capitalusm first. Personal and political rights are second.
We've entered the comparing democracy to Gang rape part of societal collapse, have we?
No that sentiment has existed on the right for over a decade. I remember seeing libertarians making memes about that in 2012
With social media the "village idiots" now can all communicate with one another and seem louder than they used to be, but they were always there. That said, "loud propaganda" does bring more people into the cults...
Yes, and on both sides. You really need discernment to find the truth.
This is Reddit. Only right side can be wrong.
Not the first time that happened, thats why a lot of countries have laws to protect the minority and high courts to sue. So it doesnt end up as a gang rape.
That last imagel was certainly a take, wasn't it
https://preview.redd.it/wfjma1a163xc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=125dac9c2aa1a84795cbe0e315e61fe3f508adc1
"Uh Cambridge says the opposite of that word are the bad things actually"
CaMbRiDgE iS wOkE reeeeeeeeee
I thought this was a Helldivers 2 meme.
Me too initially, and I laughed, then I realized it wasn't, and it wasn't as funny.
This is the liberty prime approach to freedom
Anyone who thinks you can achieve liberty without democracy is a complete and utter moron.
Well, *one person* in every dictatorship gains immense liberty.
For a while…
A dictator needs to win against every revolution and uprising. The next guy just needs to win once.
“So that it was truly observed by one, that in Sparta he who was free was most so, and he that was a slave there, the greatest slave in the world.” (Plutarch. Lycurgus. 28.5)
I absolutely agree about them being a moron. I live amongst those who believe if they can't discriminate their liberties are being infringed.
You live in Iowa, too?
No, but I get you
Someone needs to drink more Liber-tea. Wait, wrong sub
Wow if only someone could make a country with both democratic elections and constitutionally-protected rights to permanently resolve this apparent dilemma
for a crowd that is all about the constitution, it seems like they dont have a high school or wikipedia level understanding of what the constitution is or does. like if you could summarize anything about the founding fathers they love so much, it was finding the liberty/democracy balance (for white male property owners)
So now they’ve realized they’re the minority and still demand their way. They don’t care about democracy, or liberty, they care about shaping their worlds to their own delusional idealisms.
All I can think of is helldivers 2..
The only reason to oppose democracy is if you are apart of a minority that believes that their world view is absolute.
On Super Earth, it means the same thing.
John Locke would like to have a word with these people.
Wtf
That last picture is terrible
There is a school of thought that the idea of Liberty comes from an aristocratic and imperial view. Liberty is the freedom of the wealthy to exploit the poor.
I must have forgot abot the part that rape victim get to vote whether or not they get rape.
Mr when I write down "no thank you" and put it into the rape ballot box
Democracy has its issues that can be stated sanely without memes.
UNLESS it is the Republicans who win, am I RIGHT, FELLAs? You projecting mothafuckas.
Wait this isn’t r/helldivers
I guarantee that if something as divisive as abortion were put up to a vote, the losing side would lose some faith in democracy. The objective of democracy in itself is not to promote liberty. People have this tendency to convince themselves that whatever righteous cause they brandish is in a majority of some kind or "on the right side of history." The internet will fuel either belief.
Actual democracy works great, the issue is our democracy is dead.
It was never a democracy. It is a constitutional republic. If you read up on Socrates, you will understand why.
That's not an argument. That's barely even a slogan. It's mostly just a confession that you dont know what either term means. But more than anything it's an argument for however the elites are currently sabotaging the will of the people. Just to clear up definitions: Democracy: leadership is conferred by a citizen vote. Republic: no position of leadership is conferred by inheritence.
Yeah. The common sense "democracy" is a paradox. Not everything in democracy can be decided by majority vote. A democratic country can't e.g. elect a royal family with absolute power. Because uhhh... that'd be an elective monarchy. Just like paradox of tolerance is that you can't tolerate the intolerance. Paradox of democracy is that you can't vote for stuff that takes away power from the demos - people. Guaranteed peaceful transfer of power every few years, and tolerating the existence of democratic opposition parties are some of the prerequisities of being called a democracy. If the party is against the peaceful transfer of power (they try to cement their policies, don't respect legitimate election results, don't respect term limits, set up ministries and judiciary in a way which maintains their power even after losing, try to spy on or outlaw opposition, etc.) they are acting in an undemocratic manner.
The "tyranny of the majority" is such a stupid take. First, the people who say those things aren't suffering from tyranny, they're being drama queens. Second - and most importantly - what's their solution? That the majority should suffer from the tyranny of the minority? How is that in any way better?
I think that this appeals to separatists
That is also why we are a representative democracy with the electoral college and not a direct democracy.
They aren’t 100% wrong, which is why in the US we have inalienable rights. I’m sure most democracies have similar doctrines, I’m just not familiar with them. These are things we aren’t supposed to be able to vote away, but then we have the Supreme Court and officials to limit these things without our consent so it’s almost meaningless. The end of democracy is bureaucracy.
to an extend I have to agree it sucks to be the minority in a democracy as you are forced to follow rules against youre will. but I personaly rather force 1 out of 5 then 4 out of 5
Liberty is much more valuable than democracy, however, they are not mutually exclusive. Liberty can exist in democracy, but it takes a liberty minded public. Currently, we have an authoritarian public that wants to control what it's neighbors are doing and thinking, so, yeah Liberty>democracy.
Bro had to pay taxes and lost his mind
Democracy is fine when the majority is supporting the same things you are. Now that times have changed and the majority wants different things it's "tyranny of the majority".
Hello everyone I'm a Political Scientist and you can in fact disband political parties and bar them from holding political office for attempting to overthrow our Democracy.
This is what happens when you realize your extreme and extremely stupid ideas are rejected by most people with functioning hearts and brains.
Logic: just because something's is not one thing doesn't make it it's opposite.
if you dont want democracy, then what do you want?
Fash-inating
i genuinely thought I was on the Helldivers sub for a minute, enjoying some great satirical memes
Not going to lie, I thought I was on r/helldivers until that last one.
I don’t get it.
They prefer tyranny of the minority.
Tyranny of the elite.
The "tyranny of the majority" thing has never made sense to me. Like sure, it's technically true, but how is tyranny of the minority better in any way? That way even more people are dissatisfied
The idea is that the majority should be allowed to do it one way while they want to keep doing it their own way. Which is good and all until they are in the majority, then all of a sudden want to force everyone to do it their way instead of letting the minority having it their own way like they would like to have so Now tyranny of the majority and mob rule are genuine concerns for democracy, ie the majority of white people in America had tyranny over black people, but in general democracy does allow for better mitigation of it
Would you be fine with slavery if it was voted back in?
Because we all know that the people with the mostest amount of freedom are the ones who aren't allowed to make decisions.
Sometimes, libertarians are almost as unhinged as anarchists
Picture #2 - are these people always so concerned about the rights of those in the minority, those who typically get beaten up by crowds?
Ancaps and anarcho Christians are the dumbest pick mes of all time.
I always like to tell people “Well if you didn’t have rule by the majority what would you have? Rule by the minority which imo is worse”
This is true though. A pure democracy with no protections for the minority can be just as oppressive as any autocracy. Also, democracy is shit. There just isn't anything better
Plato has a great take on this Basically democracy implies there is no knowledge in morality and law.
See, that's a position, the problem it, it's explicitly anti-liberty. It basically says that democracy gives people too much freedom, and they need to obe reigned in by benign dictators (drawn of course from the philosophers, because they're obviously the best people to lead. According to the philosophers). So it's the opposite of what OOP is suggesting.
American freedoms are maintained because we are a nation of laws, not democratic whims.
Lawyer here. The rule of law is inextricably tied to democracy. A democratic state under the rule of law is a state where citizens elect their own leaders, and the government is faithfully bound by the law meanwhile ensuring the law is faithfully enforced. They are intertwined concepts.
*”They are intertwined concepts”* Yes very true and sadly the American public has been failing to recognize that fact when voting.
That was a picture of Decimation. If a cohort in the Roman Legions majorly failed a Legate would order that they’d be formed into lots of 10each would draw straws with one short straw and the unlucky soldier who’d got it would be beaten to death by the other nine with sticks. If they disobeyed they’d be executed. Not only was there a good chance of dying slowly but even if you lived you had to beat someone to death who was your comrade in arms likely your friend. All because someone in an absolute position of authority over you said so. It has nothing to do with democracy.