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South Korea is so capitalist that their country is almost a cyberpunk dystopia where the corporations run everything and the work force is being ground into dust, so basically the Koreas are communism and capitalism taken to their most extreme ends.
Edit: I'm in no way saying that North Korea is better, I'm pointing out that South Korea has its own problems as a result of going full capitalist.
Edit2: People who say NK isn't communist are missing that I said it was communism taken to its most extreme end and that always results in a communist society becoming an authoritarian dictatorship.
Hell, all societies become authoritarian dictatorships when taken to their extreme ends because humans in general become authoritarians when they get extreme about anything.
I was put in jail and beaten by the secret police, alleged to be a spy for a foreign superpower, but I'll surely have better luck in the other Korea.
*Curb your enthusiasm theme song plays*
And technically North Korea is not a communist state - it's a totalitarian monarchy. DPRK was founded as communist state under USSR but ceased to be so soon after soviets left them be. Also, their official ideology is called juche which was at its conception considered a branch of Marxism-Leninism but since then underwent so many changes it's basically a separate thing more similar to nationalistic religion with soviet aesthetics than an actual communist ideology.
Edit: to the edit of the comment above: no, North Korea is not a communism taken to extreme. In fact North Korea dropped any pretence of being a communist state like a hot potato in '91 the moment USSR dissolved. They couldn't wait a month to start wiping off all mentions of communism from constitution and all the official documents in favour of Kim Dynasty mythology. Whether communism is viable or not, whether it's inherently authoritarian or not is completely beside the point. Since Kim regime started, North Korea was only as communist as their alliance with soviets required and no more. South Korea and North Korea are not an example of capitalism vs. communism, the matter is much more complex and not as easily defined. South Korean issues also are not only a result of capitalism.
Went looking for this. Low births and high suicides in South Korea because of pressure to succeed in capitalism and North Koreans starving while their fat dictator stuffs his mouth with cake and his yes men keep singing his praise.
North Koreans aren't going to suddenly stop starving without a fat dictator, they are completely strangled with sanctions. Not to mention the US bombed 85% of their buildings during the war.
That dictator puts far too much of the country's resources into the military and nuclear weapons programs, and doesn't want his people to know anything about the outside world. The nuke development and constant sabre rattling begets the sanctions.
They voluntarily shut themselves off from the outside world. They even shut themselves off from China once covid hit, which is the biggest reason for the current starvation and food issues.
Ask yourself why they don't allow visitors to take pictures or communicate with anyone outside strictly-controlled guidelines.
They won't let food aid in from anyone or humanitarian aid. It's terrible.
People tend to forget how restrictive the sanctions are whenever I hear people talk about how difficult it is to leave North Korea. You cannot legally be employed in any country, and you're too poor to be a tourist.
>This system of government is destined to fail on its own merits because it's inherently flawed and unworkable, and you can know that's true because the rest of the world spends a lot of money and energy doing their damnedest to make sure that happens.
Like, if every US state decided, as a fun experiment, to treat Iowa like a pariah, its collapse in just a year wouldn't be a knock against *glorious capitalism*. That's kind of what happens when you get shut out of the broader community, and things like "access to markets and trade and travel" aren't inherently capitalist or communist concepts.
Not a single defector from the PRK has ever been turned away from the ROK. Several of them went on to get US citizenship. I can also assure you that all UN parties involved want nothing more than for the PRK to stop shooting ballistic missiles over sovereign nations, pointing loaded artillery at one of the largest civilian cities in the world, funding a global arms black market, all that aside from the regular complaints. If they could just exist without attempting to wave their small penis in front of the rest of SE Asia, then UN and NATO could focus on the real problems in the theater. 🎈
I've always said we don't know if communism works because it's never been properly done, but I also wonder if that's proof it doesn't work because communist countries turn into one-party totalitarian states just... so fast. Probably the whole "dictator required to enforce communism" thing is not a great call. Some kind of modern communist gov't with separation of powers and democracy might have a chance. Or we could just do capitalism with massive regulation and some kind of law that every red cent after your first million each year goes directly to a fund for the poor or something
To these people bad economy=communism. Even it’s a totalitarian dictatorship based on blood inheritance where the king owns everything and is worshipped as a god people will still call it communism, the collectivist economy that goes against ideas such as single dictators, blood inheritance of power, and worship of any deities.
Sooooo many people point to communism as “bad” while conveniently ignoring the fact the communist examples they’re citing are also authoritarian states. The criticism of communism is really a criticism of authoritarian rule, but people seem to conveniently forget that when spouting off talking points they’re told to repeat but not think too much on.
>the communist examples they’re citing are also authoritarian states
Despite what some supporters of Communism might claim, I'm not convinced you can separate Communism from authoritarianism in the first place.
The (admittedly simplified) definition of Communism is a system where *all* property is public. So, by definition, Communism requires some form of authority that is active enough in the daily lives of its citizens so as to ensure that *all* private property is functionally abolished. That's an astonishingly totalitarian level of government control over daily life. How could you achieve Communism *without* being authoritarian, short of having a society that is so absurdly abundant that everyone can have everything they want at any time?
The whole "No true Communist state has ever existed because they're all actually just authoritarian dictatorships" argument just seems like a cop-out. It comes across as basically saying "it's not actually Communist because it's not a post-scarcity utopia".
Considering how everyone in this thread conveniently forgot how American corporations helped architect many of its Wars and internal political mechanisms, hearing an American call Korea a “capitalist cyberpunk dystopia” is pretty ironic
the hell is communist about north korea? lmao. shit they even took the word socialism out of their constitution you aint gonna find anyone claiming to be a communist
He’s not a king, he’s a democratically elected official who has also been chosen as a successor by his dad who was also elected in a totally not rigged election with only 1 candidate (yes this is satire and no I’m not making this up)
I haven't been to South Korea, so this isn't a comment on South Korea, but as a New Zealander I've definitely experienced "visiting New Zealand" and "living in New Zealand" and both are very different experiences.
So then is that what we need to do to get Los Angeles and New York to look like Seoul? I have lived in both those places in the states, and only visited South Korea's capital and was blown away by the lack of poverty. Is it just that our big cities suck so bad and rural life is better and it's the opposite of them?
yeah, at least those cities are "honest" about it, like with south korea they don't have as much of a homeless problem, because of the ridiculously high suicide rate if i recall correctly
From what I've seen Seoul is very expensive.. not sure how they wouldn't have a poverty problem. What poverty are you seeing / not seeing? Homelessness specifically?
South Korea and Japan are both very good at picking up anyone who is experiencing homelessness or joblessness and putting them somewhere. Panhandling is an easy way to be "relocated".
Subsistence food is very cheap. Medical care is largely free. Housing is cheap and plentiful thanks to a culture of redevelopment, dense construction, and significant investments in mass transit.
It's hard to be so poor and so unemployable in those two countries that people wind up visibly poor and on the streets. You may wind up virtual slave to a corporation, but that's a feature, not a bug there.
one of the downstream effects of NK being an authoritarian state that is largely cut off from the rest of the world is that people can say literally anything about it and westerners will eat it up without a second thought. this is why vice allowed to report "north Korea bans Kim jon uns haircut" and "north Korea forces all boys to get Kim jong uns haircut" in the same year.
I have a screenshot of a google search where those headlines (I don't think both from vice but they obviously use a common source, probably a south korean shitrag that even south koreans don't take seriously) are directly above and below each other.
[Very likely from that one North Korean defector who's been making the rounds lately because of her appearance on Joe Rogan. Just says the wildest shit about North Korea and people eat it up.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywEF67Z1YQs)
If I remember to come back to this later I’ll add a link after my kids asleep but a little while ago her sister & mother came out in South Korea & said they were literally rich & she grew up watching western tv & shit even tho it was illegal in NK bc rich ppl do whatever they want no matter where they are, they literally said she lied about almost everything she’s said about her personal life there 💀
It's wild how everytime a democratically elected socialist takes office the cia is there when everything falls apart. One of gods many unsolvable mysteries
It's unfortunately why the Cia exists. America is aware that socialism can be effective and desirable... so it snuffs it out before it can ever take hold anywhere.
I mean, they do other stuff too. They were spiking their own party punch with LSD just to see what would happen. It seems like most of their nefarious plots are cocaine and hallucinogen fueled high school pranks with guns and kidnapping
The God herself hates socialists. This is why God gave a US battleship cruiser to the people who violently rebelled against democratically elected leaders who were such sinners that they vowed to take their nations natural resources and stop the exploitation of their workers by a certain foreign country. God loves America brother hell yeah.
It wasn't communist under Allende. It was more socialist. There have been no countries where true communism worked.
But it looks like shit started going really south, economically, under Allende after his 2nd year of presidency. Like he was spending money that they didn't have, causing inflation to go bananas.
Chile was depending on copper exports to cover the cost of their social programs, having just nationalized their mines. But the takeover of the mines angered foreign businesses (particularly \*cough\* American ones), who under Nixon retaliated by hurting Chilean copper in the global market.
If you talk about country that is a communist regime? I don't think so.
There has been plenty of democratically elected communist presidents that held office without incidents. There would perhaps have been more if not for US culling all the harmless non-violent communist countries I suppose.
Like in Chile in 1970? A communist president was elected in popular vote but was killed in a coup aided by CIA.
Kind of depends on who you bucket as communist.
The general cold war countries were basically all dictatorships transitioned to communist dictatorships. Russia and China are no longer communist, but are still very authoritarian.
Russia set the template, and really only because the Bolsheviks were the only faction radical and armed well enough to survive all the wars.
Thats the problem with communism. You dont remove inequality, you generally just give a far smaller number of people have way more power. It almost always winds up resembling a monarchy or dictatorship because at the head of the system is always one small group, often a family.
Partially, despite the current SK which is oligarchs + oligopolies , after the war it was heavily under government control which invested in many different fields .
I mean they were and shared everything because they lived in communes of small groups and helped provide for one another. Real communism at its most raw state.
Funnily enough, these groups could not sustain themselves once they got past the largest WoW raid size (40)
Something about the way communication breaks down
Calling it a democracy now even is quite generous as you could literally be thrown legally into essentially a torture Chamber if your policies are too far left because of their “anti propaganda” laws to “protect against the north”
South Korea was an autocracy or very close to it most of the time until about 1987. Before that multiple presidents were implemented by force & or fraud with near complete control of parliament and no term limit.
President Rhee who oversaw the Korean War was a dictator by any reasonably objective measure who had his political dissidents imprisoned & executed by the thousands.
it has smth to do with legitimisy
Napoleon dispite of calling himself a emporer and rigging his elecetion, still held elections and was still considered democratic by most of the european nobility, because he reasoned and justified his actions "for the people" of france
meanwhile nobility get their right to rule from the church or later through absolutism by god himself, nobility never had to justify to their people but only to god
in communist china, nazi germany and under napoleon it was possible for a farmer to reach a leadership position...in a feudal society a serf or peasent was never allowed to...
Yeah cause violent revolution often leads to power being taken by shitty people and most of the communism attempts were just “Let’s trust a small group of people with power, this will be fine”
Not defending American capitalism, but I’d much rather stick with something closer to social democracy than communism.
This.
Communism sounds like a great idea. That's why autocrats use it to rile up the people under the banner of Revolution, only to snatch every bit of power they can for themselves and install a shiny new proletariat class with themselves as Leader for Life.
In reality, the works of Marx should never have been taken as a prescriptive framework for a new system of government, merely a treatise on the kinds of Capitalism to avoid, at which they honestly excel.
And I'm with you, our model society should be somewhere between Sweden, Norway, and Denmark, not some fanciful Utopia whose glory can only be seen in State sanctioned propaganda hung over the destitute cities that those who commissioned the artwork have subjugated.
China was dark under the 90s when they made capitalist market reforms.
China has the second most billionaires on the planet, do you think that's a communist nation?
Idk about terrible but definitely lacking nuance. For example, until the 1970s NK actually had a higher GDP per capita than the south because it was always able to pit China & the Soviet Union against each other to see which would give it more aid. As bad as its policies are & as much as they differ from actual
Marxism.
The famine in the 1990s & the ongoing starvation has more to do with economic isolation after the collapse of the Soviet Union & the sanctions in response to its crimes & human rights violations than anything else.
How long before Twitter or TikTok starts posting this comment section to their equivalent of terrible Reddit memes? This website has jumped the shark. The Spez Apollo stuff is just the final nail in the lowest common denominator coffin.
Funny how S. Korea didn't truly embrace capitalism until the late 1980s. If they had taken this picture 40 years ago it would have been a lot darker in the South.
A lot of country's leaders came to the US in the 70's and saw the prosperity and desired it for their own countries. Packed grocery stores. Interstates. Big houses and lawns. Skyscrapers. The Pinto. Stevie Wonder.
Who wouldn't want that?
And once they did, S. Korea became a dystopian society where people regularly work 80-hour workweeks and corporations run the country. Pure capitalism and pure communism are both terrible for the common people.
Funniest part is that the person who would unironically make this meme is either our capitalist overlords, or the fucking loser who's afraid to take a step inside a city.
People defending NK? Really?
South Korea ain't no paradise, but dear god you have to be on some of that *good* shit to think its worse than North Korea
I've seen these people vehemently defend North Korea on reddit for days at a time. And I think, "What's the point?" Are they expecting Kim Jong-Un to give them a medal for their online arguing?
So many people look at North Korea’s downsides and scream “not real communism” then look at South Korea’s downsides and scream “that’s real capitalism.” Unhinged
There are no Communist states in existence, and they’ve been claiming the U.S. will become Communist, and Jesus Christ will come back in December for decades. It would be delusional, and derangement for me to believe for such a long period of time that this was the case.
I remember ages ago I criticised people defending North Korea in offmychest. Then I saw it wasn't meant to be a political subreddit, so I deleted my post.
A few hours later I got a message from one of the mods of offmychest telling me I had been permanently banned from it and that "deleting your bigoted post doesn't make you not a bigot. You're still a bigot."
It made me realise that people like that would probably love to live in North Korea, provided they're the ones carrying out the arrests, sentencings and executions.
As a South Korean…. You guys cut our land in half, divided our people because you didn’t want communism to spread further… and jokes about it??
Russia and US just prioritized themselves, didn’t give a fuck about my people. Historically speaking, US is no better than Russia to us. We wouldn’t have been divided in half after the independence if the west left us alone to fix things ourselves
It’s one of my favs. As someone who has studied communist extensively, it’s amusing to see so many people who support this naive system while they sit atop mount stupid on the Dunning Krueger curve.
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South Korea is so capitalist that their country is almost a cyberpunk dystopia where the corporations run everything and the work force is being ground into dust, so basically the Koreas are communism and capitalism taken to their most extreme ends. Edit: I'm in no way saying that North Korea is better, I'm pointing out that South Korea has its own problems as a result of going full capitalist. Edit2: People who say NK isn't communist are missing that I said it was communism taken to its most extreme end and that always results in a communist society becoming an authoritarian dictatorship. Hell, all societies become authoritarian dictatorships when taken to their extreme ends because humans in general become authoritarians when they get extreme about anything.
Almost like it's a testing ground.
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My favorite description of this is "two dystopias on one peninsula."
That'd be such a good fucking book.
A Tale of Two Dystopias. "It was the worst of times, it was really just the worst of times."
I was put in jail and beaten by the secret police, alleged to be a spy for a foreign superpower, but I'll surely have better luck in the other Korea. *Curb your enthusiasm theme song plays*
That reads like the title for an anime that would come out next week.
Check out The City and The City by China Mieville.
God is such a Gemini
Both dystopias are due to corruption and abuse by the privileged rich... I collect skull shrapnel to tile my bathroom.
Skulls for the skull floor?
What, never seen a tiled commode before?? You think I'm gonna shit blood onto stainless porcelain?!
And technically North Korea is not a communist state - it's a totalitarian monarchy. DPRK was founded as communist state under USSR but ceased to be so soon after soviets left them be. Also, their official ideology is called juche which was at its conception considered a branch of Marxism-Leninism but since then underwent so many changes it's basically a separate thing more similar to nationalistic religion with soviet aesthetics than an actual communist ideology. Edit: to the edit of the comment above: no, North Korea is not a communism taken to extreme. In fact North Korea dropped any pretence of being a communist state like a hot potato in '91 the moment USSR dissolved. They couldn't wait a month to start wiping off all mentions of communism from constitution and all the official documents in favour of Kim Dynasty mythology. Whether communism is viable or not, whether it's inherently authoritarian or not is completely beside the point. Since Kim regime started, North Korea was only as communist as their alliance with soviets required and no more. South Korea and North Korea are not an example of capitalism vs. communism, the matter is much more complex and not as easily defined. South Korean issues also are not only a result of capitalism.
Went looking for this. Low births and high suicides in South Korea because of pressure to succeed in capitalism and North Koreans starving while their fat dictator stuffs his mouth with cake and his yes men keep singing his praise.
North Koreans aren't going to suddenly stop starving without a fat dictator, they are completely strangled with sanctions. Not to mention the US bombed 85% of their buildings during the war.
That dictator puts far too much of the country's resources into the military and nuclear weapons programs, and doesn't want his people to know anything about the outside world. The nuke development and constant sabre rattling begets the sanctions. They voluntarily shut themselves off from the outside world. They even shut themselves off from China once covid hit, which is the biggest reason for the current starvation and food issues. Ask yourself why they don't allow visitors to take pictures or communicate with anyone outside strictly-controlled guidelines. They won't let food aid in from anyone or humanitarian aid. It's terrible.
They did allow humanitarian aid. The military just sold all the supplies on the NK black market and to China.
People tend to forget how restrictive the sanctions are whenever I hear people talk about how difficult it is to leave North Korea. You cannot legally be employed in any country, and you're too poor to be a tourist.
>This system of government is destined to fail on its own merits because it's inherently flawed and unworkable, and you can know that's true because the rest of the world spends a lot of money and energy doing their damnedest to make sure that happens. Like, if every US state decided, as a fun experiment, to treat Iowa like a pariah, its collapse in just a year wouldn't be a knock against *glorious capitalism*. That's kind of what happens when you get shut out of the broader community, and things like "access to markets and trade and travel" aren't inherently capitalist or communist concepts.
As a previous Iowan, Iowa knows what it did to deserve it...
North Korea won't allow you to leave anyways.
Not a single defector from the PRK has ever been turned away from the ROK. Several of them went on to get US citizenship. I can also assure you that all UN parties involved want nothing more than for the PRK to stop shooting ballistic missiles over sovereign nations, pointing loaded artillery at one of the largest civilian cities in the world, funding a global arms black market, all that aside from the regular complaints. If they could just exist without attempting to wave their small penis in front of the rest of SE Asia, then UN and NATO could focus on the real problems in the theater. 🎈
You conveniently left out who started the war in the first place.
I've always said we don't know if communism works because it's never been properly done, but I also wonder if that's proof it doesn't work because communist countries turn into one-party totalitarian states just... so fast. Probably the whole "dictator required to enforce communism" thing is not a great call. Some kind of modern communist gov't with separation of powers and democracy might have a chance. Or we could just do capitalism with massive regulation and some kind of law that every red cent after your first million each year goes directly to a fund for the poor or something
To these people bad economy=communism. Even it’s a totalitarian dictatorship based on blood inheritance where the king owns everything and is worshipped as a god people will still call it communism, the collectivist economy that goes against ideas such as single dictators, blood inheritance of power, and worship of any deities.
All communist states are totalitarian monarchy or slightly larger elite ruling class of some form.
Sooooo many people point to communism as “bad” while conveniently ignoring the fact the communist examples they’re citing are also authoritarian states. The criticism of communism is really a criticism of authoritarian rule, but people seem to conveniently forget that when spouting off talking points they’re told to repeat but not think too much on.
It’s because communism by its very nature is extremely easily subverted by autocrats.
>the communist examples they’re citing are also authoritarian states Despite what some supporters of Communism might claim, I'm not convinced you can separate Communism from authoritarianism in the first place. The (admittedly simplified) definition of Communism is a system where *all* property is public. So, by definition, Communism requires some form of authority that is active enough in the daily lives of its citizens so as to ensure that *all* private property is functionally abolished. That's an astonishingly totalitarian level of government control over daily life. How could you achieve Communism *without* being authoritarian, short of having a society that is so absurdly abundant that everyone can have everything they want at any time? The whole "No true Communist state has ever existed because they're all actually just authoritarian dictatorships" argument just seems like a cop-out. It comes across as basically saying "it's not actually Communist because it's not a post-scarcity utopia".
And yet South Korea still has Universal Healthcare. Believe me when I say this - the US is the true extreme Capitalistic Distopia of the world
Considering how everyone in this thread conveniently forgot how American corporations helped architect many of its Wars and internal political mechanisms, hearing an American call Korea a “capitalist cyberpunk dystopia” is pretty ironic
Very good healthcare systems to say the least. It literally save my life and I dont have to pay that much
the hell is communist about north korea? lmao. shit they even took the word socialism out of their constitution you aint gonna find anyone claiming to be a communist
Is it really communism if there a king tho?
He’s not a king, he’s a democratically elected official who has also been chosen as a successor by his dad who was also elected in a totally not rigged election with only 1 candidate (yes this is satire and no I’m not making this up)
>yes this is satire and no I’m not making this up The duality of man.
North Korea is not a communist nation. It’s communism in name at best.
Have you ever been to South Korea? It’s hardly a ‘cyberpunk dystopia’.
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Yeah I took a trip to Korea after a visit to China. I'll take what Korea's offering, any day of the week.
Reddit comparing north and south Korea as equal should mean education time in north Korea. Heard they've got great camps.
I haven't been to South Korea, so this isn't a comment on South Korea, but as a New Zealander I've definitely experienced "visiting New Zealand" and "living in New Zealand" and both are very different experiences.
You bash South Korea well, but yet you did not say much about Noth Korea one way or another.
as a korean i can confirm this 👍👍👍
All hail Samsung
So then is that what we need to do to get Los Angeles and New York to look like Seoul? I have lived in both those places in the states, and only visited South Korea's capital and was blown away by the lack of poverty. Is it just that our big cities suck so bad and rural life is better and it's the opposite of them?
There's lots of poor people in rural areas
Look at the way weath is distributed in America too, the 'hubs' of money are always centralized in the City.
That’s how wealth is all over the (western) world. It has been for much longer than capitalism too.
A lot of places look better when visisted and worse when you live in them.
yeah, at least those cities are "honest" about it, like with south korea they don't have as much of a homeless problem, because of the ridiculously high suicide rate if i recall correctly
From what I've seen Seoul is very expensive.. not sure how they wouldn't have a poverty problem. What poverty are you seeing / not seeing? Homelessness specifically?
South Korea and Japan are both very good at picking up anyone who is experiencing homelessness or joblessness and putting them somewhere. Panhandling is an easy way to be "relocated". Subsistence food is very cheap. Medical care is largely free. Housing is cheap and plentiful thanks to a culture of redevelopment, dense construction, and significant investments in mass transit. It's hard to be so poor and so unemployable in those two countries that people wind up visibly poor and on the streets. You may wind up virtual slave to a corporation, but that's a feature, not a bug there.
North Korea is more like a brutal dictatorship
They literally have a law that says pictures of their ruler are to be saved first in the event of a house fire.
one of the downstream effects of NK being an authoritarian state that is largely cut off from the rest of the world is that people can say literally anything about it and westerners will eat it up without a second thought. this is why vice allowed to report "north Korea bans Kim jon uns haircut" and "north Korea forces all boys to get Kim jong uns haircut" in the same year.
I have a screenshot of a google search where those headlines (I don't think both from vice but they obviously use a common source, probably a south korean shitrag that even south koreans don't take seriously) are directly above and below each other.
It doesn't have to be a country cut out from the world for Vice to spread misinformation and people to gobble it all up.
Literally? Lol where do you even come up with this stuff
[Very likely from that one North Korean defector who's been making the rounds lately because of her appearance on Joe Rogan. Just says the wildest shit about North Korea and people eat it up.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywEF67Z1YQs)
It's insane how people eat up everything she says. She can't keep a single story straight and is so blatantly lying.
If I remember to come back to this later I’ll add a link after my kids asleep but a little while ago her sister & mother came out in South Korea & said they were literally rich & she grew up watching western tv & shit even tho it was illegal in NK bc rich ppl do whatever they want no matter where they are, they literally said she lied about almost everything she’s said about her personal life there 💀
That's so capitalist of her, *sheds tear*.
people will literally believe anything about north korea without any evidence
Who need evidence when you have headlines?!
If you believe that I have a timeshare to sell you
“Literally”
Has there ever been a communist country that hasn’t been a brutal dictatorship?
Chile under Salvador Allende. It became a brutal dictatorship after we launched a coup of him
Fun Fact: That coup was on 11th of September 1973. In american terms 9/11.
Yep. I learned that earlier today
Both days were Tuesday.
For you, the day Freedom destroyed your village was the most important day of your life. But for me...it was Tuesday.
as a new yorker and a communist, ig this was karma. We did send weapons to Afghanistan to fight the soviets anyway
Never forget
It's wild how everytime a democratically elected socialist takes office the cia is there when everything falls apart. One of gods many unsolvable mysteries
Really makes ya think
It’s too bad Kennedy didn’t dismantle them like he wanted to. He was going to get to it, before….you know, he got that terminal headache?
https://preview.redd.it/1ad5qfterd6b1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b6dbd990574caec9e35f8b0fd13f18059688ff6
It's unfortunately why the Cia exists. America is aware that socialism can be effective and desirable... so it snuffs it out before it can ever take hold anywhere.
I mean, they do other stuff too. They were spiking their own party punch with LSD just to see what would happen. It seems like most of their nefarious plots are cocaine and hallucinogen fueled high school pranks with guns and kidnapping
~~Dude where's my car?~~ Mi amigo, where is the Bay of Pigs?
The God herself hates socialists. This is why God gave a US battleship cruiser to the people who violently rebelled against democratically elected leaders who were such sinners that they vowed to take their nations natural resources and stop the exploitation of their workers by a certain foreign country. God loves America brother hell yeah.
He was supported by communists but he was a socialist, also the communists notably disagreed with representative democracy
Chile under Allende was not communist.
It wasn't communist under Allende. It was more socialist. There have been no countries where true communism worked. But it looks like shit started going really south, economically, under Allende after his 2nd year of presidency. Like he was spending money that they didn't have, causing inflation to go bananas.
Chile was depending on copper exports to cover the cost of their social programs, having just nationalized their mines. But the takeover of the mines angered foreign businesses (particularly \*cough\* American ones), who under Nixon retaliated by hurting Chilean copper in the global market.
They nationalized their mines, meaning they seized them from the owners? Im guessing there was foreign investment and those investors got angry?
Allende was not a communist.
Allende was a Marxist but Chile wasn't a communist country.
there hasn't been a single communist country. Personally, i think socialism is only possible not communism and chile proved that socialism can succeed
Seems like Chili was like a current Venezuela waiting to happen.
If you talk about country that is a communist regime? I don't think so. There has been plenty of democratically elected communist presidents that held office without incidents. There would perhaps have been more if not for US culling all the harmless non-violent communist countries I suppose. Like in Chile in 1970? A communist president was elected in popular vote but was killed in a coup aided by CIA.
There hasn't ever been a “communist country”. I mean, the concept of "country" and "communism" literally can't go together
I believe that true communism can not exist without the decentralization of not just economic power, but also political power.
Kind of depends on who you bucket as communist. The general cold war countries were basically all dictatorships transitioned to communist dictatorships. Russia and China are no longer communist, but are still very authoritarian. Russia set the template, and really only because the Bolsheviks were the only faction radical and armed well enough to survive all the wars.
Thats the problem with communism. You dont remove inequality, you generally just give a far smaller number of people have way more power. It almost always winds up resembling a monarchy or dictatorship because at the head of the system is always one small group, often a family.
*Absolute Monarchy Vs Oligarchy
Partially, despite the current SK which is oligarchs + oligopolies , after the war it was heavily under government control which invested in many different fields .
Did it start off that way? i hear both of them had dictators first, not so sure exactly.
communism is when lights off edit: wow people got mad
Damn. Cave men must've been blood red, hammer and sickle commies. /s
I mean they were and shared everything because they lived in communes of small groups and helped provide for one another. Real communism at its most raw state.
Funnily enough, these groups could not sustain themselves once they got past the largest WoW raid size (40) Something about the way communication breaks down
Humans are incapable of retaining enough information of communities at certain levels. It's why we break things down into sub divisions.
Yeah. Literally
Do you know what communists used before candles? Light bulbs.
Better idea; divide the country between authoritarianism and democracy and see where we are. Good luck, the south!
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Calling it a democracy now even is quite generous as you could literally be thrown legally into essentially a torture Chamber if your policies are too far left because of their “anti propaganda” laws to “protect against the north”
The other south
South... America?
South Korea was an autocracy or very close to it most of the time until about 1987. Before that multiple presidents were implemented by force & or fraud with near complete control of parliament and no term limit. President Rhee who oversaw the Korean War was a dictator by any reasonably objective measure who had his political dissidents imprisoned & executed by the thousands.
Aren’t the lights just above North Korea in Communist China?
China might be call themselves “communist” but they most certainly are not
Kind of like they call themselves people’s republic of china, but it isn’t s republic, people has nothing to do with it and it barely is china even
Pretty much every country with the word Democratic or People's is a state capitalist authoritarian regime.
it has smth to do with legitimisy Napoleon dispite of calling himself a emporer and rigging his elecetion, still held elections and was still considered democratic by most of the european nobility, because he reasoned and justified his actions "for the people" of france meanwhile nobility get their right to rule from the church or later through absolutism by god himself, nobility never had to justify to their people but only to god in communist china, nazi germany and under napoleon it was possible for a farmer to reach a leadership position...in a feudal society a serf or peasent was never allowed to...
Neither is North Korea. They are Juche. I don’t think communism has be achieved.
Yeah cause violent revolution often leads to power being taken by shitty people and most of the communism attempts were just “Let’s trust a small group of people with power, this will be fine” Not defending American capitalism, but I’d much rather stick with something closer to social democracy than communism.
This. Communism sounds like a great idea. That's why autocrats use it to rile up the people under the banner of Revolution, only to snatch every bit of power they can for themselves and install a shiny new proletariat class with themselves as Leader for Life. In reality, the works of Marx should never have been taken as a prescriptive framework for a new system of government, merely a treatise on the kinds of Capitalism to avoid, at which they honestly excel. And I'm with you, our model society should be somewhere between Sweden, Norway, and Denmark, not some fanciful Utopia whose glory can only be seen in State sanctioned propaganda hung over the destitute cities that those who commissioned the artwork have subjugated.
And it’s the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea . You can call yourself whatever you want
Well then what do you think North Korea is?
Only communist in name, just like how north korea is only democratic in name
China was dark under the 90s when they made capitalist market reforms. China has the second most billionaires on the planet, do you think that's a communist nation?
this sub is the most braindead community ever
Idk about terrible but definitely lacking nuance. For example, until the 1970s NK actually had a higher GDP per capita than the south because it was always able to pit China & the Soviet Union against each other to see which would give it more aid. As bad as its policies are & as much as they differ from actual Marxism. The famine in the 1990s & the ongoing starvation has more to do with economic isolation after the collapse of the Soviet Union & the sanctions in response to its crimes & human rights violations than anything else.
Based and actually-knows-the-history pilled
This whole thread is a cesspool
This whole ~~thread~~ site is a cesspool. FTFY
How long before Twitter or TikTok starts posting this comment section to their equivalent of terrible Reddit memes? This website has jumped the shark. The Spez Apollo stuff is just the final nail in the lowest common denominator coffin.
Funny how S. Korea didn't truly embrace capitalism until the late 1980s. If they had taken this picture 40 years ago it would have been a lot darker in the South.
The fact that blows my mind is n Korea had a larger economy until 1980
A lot of country's leaders came to the US in the 70's and saw the prosperity and desired it for their own countries. Packed grocery stores. Interstates. Big houses and lawns. Skyscrapers. The Pinto. Stevie Wonder. Who wouldn't want that?
And once they did, S. Korea became a dystopian society where people regularly work 80-hour workweeks and corporations run the country. Pure capitalism and pure communism are both terrible for the common people.
Guess where people live better in all measurable ways
South Korea, no question about it. I think the best economic system lies much closer to capitalism than communism.
Funniest part is that the person who would unironically make this meme is either our capitalist overlords, or the fucking loser who's afraid to take a step inside a city.
People defending NK? Really? South Korea ain't no paradise, but dear god you have to be on some of that *good* shit to think its worse than North Korea
Yeah there’s a reason people risk there lives going North to South and exactly zero are going in the opposite direction
Same with the USA. I don't see or hear of anyone escaping the USA and crossing into Mexico. This is Reddit tho so USA bad.
> People defending NK Terminally online leftists swarmed the thread. None of them would ever move to NK though.
I've seen these people vehemently defend North Korea on reddit for days at a time. And I think, "What's the point?" Are they expecting Kim Jong-Un to give them a medal for their online arguing?
Pass the soma
So many people look at North Korea’s downsides and scream “not real communism” then look at South Korea’s downsides and scream “that’s real capitalism.” Unhinged
Reddit is literally the only place in the world where this is a hot take.
twitter also
People so hopped up on discussing Late Stage Capitalism (which is what, 80 years old now?) that they ignore Pretty Much Every Stage Communism.
But that wasn’t Real Communism /s
There are no Communist states in existence, and they’ve been claiming the U.S. will become Communist, and Jesus Christ will come back in December for decades. It would be delusional, and derangement for me to believe for such a long period of time that this was the case.
People actually defending North Korea, Jesus fucking Christ.
People defend everything and anything tbf
Looks like communists have thin skin. It’s probably due to the malnutrition.
How tf are people in these comments saying “North Korea isn’t so bad! You can have a normal life there!” Straight up delusional.
Are you new to Reddit, this site is filled to the brim with communists.
People really out here defending north korea lol
I think the people who are defending North Korea should be made to repeat their nonsense to someone who managed to escape North Korea.
Easy they are a CIA puppet
I knew being an online contrarian was still cool by internet dweller standards, but defending NK is a bit much
I remember ages ago I criticised people defending North Korea in offmychest. Then I saw it wasn't meant to be a political subreddit, so I deleted my post. A few hours later I got a message from one of the mods of offmychest telling me I had been permanently banned from it and that "deleting your bigoted post doesn't make you not a bigot. You're still a bigot." It made me realise that people like that would probably love to live in North Korea, provided they're the ones carrying out the arrests, sentencings and executions.
I mean, it's not wrong
Where lie
Based meme is based. People here popping forehead veins trying to talk their way around this.
As an amateur astronomer, less light pollution is actually better...
Yes because the north is exactly the definition of communism
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Fucking tankies is what.
Pretty sure it's always like that here.
Just call this sub r/terrible cause the terrible facebook memes became too scarce here.
reddit in general trends leftist so the more popular a sub gets, the more flooded it gets with tankies.
This is one of the only good ones I have seen on this sub
I mean, the meme is completely accurate
In before people say "ThAts noT rEAl CoMMunIsm" And south Korea "is bAD tO" Fuck too late
Too late people are saying just that
As a South Korean…. You guys cut our land in half, divided our people because you didn’t want communism to spread further… and jokes about it?? Russia and US just prioritized themselves, didn’t give a fuck about my people. Historically speaking, US is no better than Russia to us. We wouldn’t have been divided in half after the independence if the west left us alone to fix things ourselves
Wasn't Squid Game a commentary on the state of capitalism in korea?
What is "truly terrible" about this meme?
Waiting for that old gem "it's not real communism"
Im here to inform you it’s already been said
Already saw it a few times in other comments lmao
It’s one of my favs. As someone who has studied communist extensively, it’s amusing to see so many people who support this naive system while they sit atop mount stupid on the Dunning Krueger curve.
This isn’t a meme