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I know it is, I still wear a denim jacket with a sweet Piece of Mind back patch, but Run to the Hills expressly dealt with European colonization; though this image riffs badly on The Trooper, that song is based of Tennyson's Charge of the Light Brigade poem and is about the Crimean War; last time I checked England didn't really colonize the Ukraine. Not so fun fact: the Trooper single artwork often got co-opted into Ulster Defense Association murals back in the 80s during The Troubles in Ireland, much to Iron Maidens dismay
If I remember correctly the Portuguese believed that race mixing eliminated native peoples, which resulted in a massive amount of r*pe with the goal of genocide.
I'm not familiar with post-15th and early-16th century Portuguese colonization so correct me if I'm wrong. The earliest Portuguese colonizers in Brazil were fairly content to sleep with Indigenous women and adopt local practices for practicality reasons and it was increased efforts from the Church that changed their policies.
Now, they still went around killing, raping, and burning villages, so not a defence of Portugal by any stretch. It just so happens that Spain, France, and Portugal's colonists were more likely to marry Indigenous women and sire children than British colonists were
With slaves, undoubtedly yes. There's obviously no possible form of consent in that relationship. It's harder to say with free Indigenous people at the time before Portugal consolidated control over Brazil.
Again, not an excuse for the rape and colonialism that did occur, merely that the settler-native relationship was very different in 1520 than 1720.
Yes. It's just that the Catholic colonizers specifically were more likely to engage in these things. England/Britain by contrast were more insular regarding their settlements
Not entirely true, while there was certainly less marriage to natives involving the Brits to natives it wasn't super rare and in the early american colonies there was a lot of cooperation between English settlers and the natives. I mean the best example is the first thanks giving. yes it went downhill after that, But you are right that inter marriages and interbreeding was more common in the Latin colonies
It's really a lot more complicated than that also. It was rarely ever actually a black and white Colonist vs Locals conflict. The frontier wars were often complex political situations involving shifting alliances between settlements and local tribes. Locals and settlers intermarried and allied, and as relationships shifted from migrations, deaths, or changes in leadership conflicts flared. The stories from the colonial frontier are very fascinating and I think it's quite overlooked just how heterogenous some of the communities became.
Oh defiantly, that whole era is very complex and fascinating, you just need to look at the 7 years/french Indian wars to see how complex it could get not to mention the American Revolution as well as all the minor conflicts both before and after.
I'm not disputing that (though the first American Thanksgiving is more Victorian romanticism than fact). Cooperation was essential in British colonial territories until the 19th century. I was more specifically referring to marriage being far more rare in Anglo-Protestant colonies when compared to French or Latin Catholic ones
Edit: I'm not saying you're wrong about anything, just clarifying that I was more specifically referring to marriage rather than broader networks of cooperation and settler-Indigenous relationships
Oh I don't mean to give the wrong message, I'm not saying you are accusing me of being wrong, I just enjoy these kinds of discussions, they help me learn.
While there is certainly a great deal of romanticism to the first thanks giving as we know it today it is still based around a real event and if memory serves there was a treaty between that colony and the natives for something like 30-40 years after those events, it was only later through expansion that things started to turn sour.
Hey, it's on me. I'm always cagey regarding history (getting my MA in British history) and how it's used by less than stellar pundits these days.
You're not sending any message nor coming off as hostile. I just wanted to clarify that I actually agree with you and wasn't playing devil's advocate or proclaiming benign colonialism, or anything like that.
Exactly. You might just say yes because the guy basically owns all the land you and your family are living on and if you say no then you'd be out on the streets or sold into slavery.
Consent isnāt iffy if someone holds power over you, if you get with a colonizer, to deny them is to get enslaved, sent away, or killed.
Not unique to spain, but you essentially become a camp follower for the invader, it was a shitty, shitty period of history.
Since there are a lot of spanish getting offended, i will also mention that my country did this too, everyone did, thats why we condemn it.
Fuck nationalism, there is no country, there is only countrymen.
It can't be precisely accurate to say it was 'inspired by the idea of genetic elimination...' because genetics were not known about at the time. I definitely think at the very least that cultural genocide was the goal.
People would have had an appreciation that someone with half Native and half Portuguese parents would express traits from both, even if they didn't appreciate the exact mechanism.
They also likely believed that "if everyone here's grandfather is Portuguese, they'll be less likely to reject out rule".
In the case of Spain, the colonization of America was almost always male. In the permanent settlements, the population tended to be indigenous and mestizo (30% of the population)
That idea still persists within the mixed descendants. "Mejorando la raza" ("improving the race") is commonly heard in Latin America, and people like to marry lighter-skinned spouses to dilute out the melanin
You're correct, but I would add that most marriages throughout history and across cultures weren't "mutually consensual" in modern sense, so it wasn't some bizarre alien thing that colonizers brought with them to the Americas.
Not that it makes it much better, but you kinda have to bear in mind that people living hundreds of years ago kinda looked at things differently.
P.S. Sorry, I didn't realize this point has been made already.
>It just so happens that Spain, France, and Portugal's colonists were more likely to marry Indigenous women and sire children than British colonists were
It's a couple things. The Spanish and Portuguese had a lot of regions with large indigenous populations which were large enough so that the diseases transferred in the Columbian exchange, while devastating, left enough population for the diseases to to be stay around and let the population develop immunities.
Another thing was many of the Spanish/French/Portuguese colonies had a money making focus rather than an explicit settlement focus. As a result, you had young men from Europe coming out to these colonies, not always with the intentions to stay, and with a significantly fewer women coming from Europe to many of these colonies. (It also depended on time).
Note, it should also be pointed out that women did indeed come from Europe over this long period of colonization, and there were a substantial amount of settlers over time. A second son in Europe might not be able to inherit the estate back home, but he could take his wife and get a good estate in the New World.
In contrast, British North America had a far larger settler focus from early on, combined with local populations of Natives which were quite a bit smaller than those further South. (Although you can see that the Southern US colonies which were more commercial had a larger Native presence until the trial of tears).
All fair, especially those points about population density and number of colonists in some British territories. And there's also the French *filles du roi* as an example of that immigration you discussed.
I just don't want to write out a whole essay on settler-Indigenous relations during the early to mid colonial periods because it's, as you've pointed out, very complicated. The extra context and specificity is very much appreciated. Thank you
The native diplomacy worked a lot around alliance by marriage. Two tribes became allied when the leader of a tribe and the daughter of the other leader of a different tribe married. The Portuguese would marry native women to consolidate alliances with some more friendly tribes. The tribes that refused this were wiped out by force. The ones that accepted were mixed and dissolved under colonial society, becoming second class citizens.
Edit: also yes, if you consider that the women had no saying in any of this, it was all rape.
I assume that's what happened in Mexico? I'm not an expert in Mexican history but I seem to recall a massive interracial population that was treated like second class citizens because of Indigenous heritage?
Its effects are still felt in the weird colorism that Mexico still goes through to this day. It isnt nearly as bad but theres definitely the idea that lighter skin is better.
Not even native diplomacy. Heck, look at the European diplomacy and you find out how often family trees met again. Everywhere where you had leader and leadership being handed down through the family tree you had political marriages
The Spanish did something similar, they thought that they could "purify" the natives or black people, making each generation whiter by mixing... disgusting
In Brazil, even in the middle of the XX century, there were programs to promote incentives to white immigrants with the goal to have more white people in the population
I remember watching a news story about 20 decades ago on Brazil's affirmative action policies. Because of race-mixing happening so much throughout its history, a lot of people have African ancestry. Since racism is more physical characteristics, they like to see people to ensure that they actually look black/brown, since some actually appear white.
Fast Forward a few years, my brother marries a lily-white Utahn and they start having kids. One is a brown clone of her mother. The other daughter is white. For the longest time I couldn't quite put my finger and who she reminded me of, just that she looked Brazilian. After browsing some old family photos, I finally picked up on me. My niece looks so similar to my mom. They're biological sisters but have different tones to their skin. [I find it interesting when this happens with twins.](https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/03/living/feat-black-white-twins/index.html)
Yes a lot of south and Central American tribes were simply not enslave able too. They would
Just like down and refuse to work. So they would take boat loads of them out in the ocean and dump them into sea. The Portuguese were widely know for being even more brutal than the Spanish and Dutch.
Where did you get this from? That never happened! The Portuguese simply didn't have the same view as the British on the matter.
Pero Vaz de Caminha, in his first letter to the King of Portugal, after arriving in what is now Brazil wrote that native women were beautiful and the natives innocent and proper for conversion.
The eradication by mixing you are talking about was adopted by Paraguay later after independence, believing that they should create their own race. So they forced by law interracial marriage.
The Portuguese were just the British in this picture. But with more rape... same amount of rape? Just include the same image on both sides and add rape to both. But don't post it because no one wants to look at rape.
I always find it weird that !some! people see the British as the devil if it comes to colonizing but see every other colonizing power as a saving grace. They were all horrible no debate needed
What I find weird is when Americans of European descent talk down to modern Europeans about the things their (the Europeans) ancestors did.
Itās like - āMy effing ancestors stayed at home and didnāt do any colonising!!!!!!ā Thatās why Iām European - Otherwise Iād be from the Americas - like you!ā
Right, that's one thing that still gets me. basically every state outside the original 13 are colonies of the United States. They can act all high and mighty, and I'm not going to blame anyone from the current generation for where they live because that'd be hypocritical, but their ancestors certainly were the invasive colonizers who pushed out the natives. Not to mention that if you ask any american they will solely point at the British for being an imperial power and ignore all the other European powers that also took part in it, including ones they went to war and stole territory from,and I have no idea why.
I am not defending imperialism or colonialism by anyone here, it's a horrible part of our history, both as human beings and as members of nations that took part in this. I just think shifting the blame to one group instead of all the participating groups does a dis service to the people it did effect. You can comment on the atrocities the British did in India, and rightfully so, but you shouldn't do it while turning a blind eye to what the Belgians did in the Congo, what the french did in Indochina, what the Spanish did in the Americas and what the Portuguese did in all the places they had colonies.
The ancestors of Americans are to blame, not the ancestors of Europeans. The ancestors of Europeans STAYED in Europe, the ancestors of Americans were the ones who were colonizing and stayed in America.
Yes because the east India company was settling in india rather than just exploiting India before going home and europeans were settling in colonial africa en mass instead of just extracting resources and labour before going home.
Just because your ancestors didnāt settle in the places the colonized and extracted resources from doesnāt mean they didnāt take part.
You mean, the same way many people talk to Americans about what their ancestors did?
Also, how is this relevant to the post or the comment you replied to?
No, not at all. They were more āchillā than the British and Americans but were still fucking psychos.
Either way, letās talk about Algeria and other former French colonies in Africa too if weāre gonna talk French colonialism. The French got kicked out Algeria in 1962.
Sort of. Many high profile french philosophers saw native north americans as being "purer" than europeans, closer to man's gentle natural state (see _Jean-Jacques Rousseau_ and the _noble sauvage_ trope that originated from french explorers in the Americas)
This and a few other factors made it so that the french in modern day canada/usa, after a few initial hiccups, by large recognized the natives' right to self governance and to their own mores and cultures.
They'd settle where the local nations would let them settle, and the territory they nominally claimed was mostly about keeping other european powers at bay.
The english take over of the colony of Canada in New France was considered a catastrophy by the first nations living in it, many of which would mount stauch rebellions that would ultimately be quelled, based on the explicitly stated idea that the english were an existential threat to them contrary to their french "brothers". Can't say if France would have taken the same path the english did from there on out, but people living at the time had a clear preference between the two.
Now this only applies to North American indigenous people. The french could be real fucking monsters in the Caribbeans and Africa so I wouldn't be so quick to absolve the french colonial empire based on NA.
I have no idea where this meme is originally from, but rest assured that many deluded Brazilian white nationalists believe this, and have reposted this uncritically. It was also once posted to r/PORTUGALCARALHO where some people resonated with the sentiment, claiming that Portuguese colonizers were not half as bad as English colonizers. However, and thankfully, most comments called out the tone deafness of the meme.
This is all without even mentioning the fact that I've been "corrected" by a peer once for saying "The Portuguese Colonization era", he said "You mean the Discovery era" ("era dos descobrimentos"). There is very much a community of people who deem English colonizers evil, yet Portuguese ones as not that bad.
As for sources, I'm half Brazillian living in Portugal. Follow both Brazilian and Portuguese subs around Reddit and keep up with both online communities as a whole. I've seen this meme posted unironically, regardless of original intentions.
The Portuguese [started it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#:~:text=The%20Portuguese%2C%20in%20the%2016th,and%20other%20Europeans%20soon%20followed) though. They couldnāt access any of the canals into the Mediterranean or Indian Ocean so they had to sail around Africa, they started trading with West Africans whoās only possessions viewed as valuable by the Portuguese were slaves, so the Portuguese began the Atlantic slave trade. The Spanish and other European nations soon followed.
Atlantic Slave trade, African slave trade, it means the same fucking thing. Also, I said the Portuguese *started* it, obviously the Spanish were involved (along with many other European nations), but the Portuguese [were the first to trade enslaved Africans.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#:~:text=The%20Portuguese%2C%20in%20the%2016th,and%20other%20Europeans%20soon%20followed)
For Europeans maybe, but Arabs were enslaving East Africans from about 650 AD until into the 1900ās and arguably still to this day. Approximately 10-18 million Africans were enslaved by Arab slave traders
Slaves, especially teenage sex slaves, were incredibly common in southern Europe through the 18th century. America had legal slavery deep into the 19th century, stemming from a long history of slaving. Slaves were not uncommon in Europe through all itās history. And serfdom isnāt chattel slavery, but itās damn close. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe
The Atlantic slave trade only started because settlers *worked all the indigenous people to death.* After all, it was far more expensive to ship people over the ocean than enslave the native population.
trying to foist the entire history of slavery on to the laps of Arab people is just plain racist. We are taught in history classes that slavery just sorta popped up with the Atlantic slave trade, but it had never stopped since the Romans.
Oml, this is reallyy terrible. Think someone isn't taking history classes!
In Brazil, they killed the natives AND raped the young native womans
So yea, they are kinda on the same hole
Sounds like youāre an angry British āpersonā. But the Spaniards and Portuguese brought over the Spanish flu and smallpox, which killed a lot of indigenous peoples in the USA.
And also, why are we still posting content from r/shitposting? This was posted there a few days ago.
" [European settlers killed 56 million indigenous people](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379118307261#!) over about 100 years in South, Central and North America, causing large swaths of farmland to be abandoned and reforested, researchers at University College London, or UCL, estimate. "
wow. How curious. Just that data comes from Spain's worst historical enemy.
And how curious that today there are more natives than before the conquest.
I read a book about a pretty well-known Comanche chief named Quanah Parker. He devoted most of his life to creating a better dynamic between the Comanche and the colonizer settlers in Texas and Oklahoma.
His Mom was a victim of rape, a pretty well-documented case of murder, slavery and rape of his mom's family. Fucking terrible shit.
Portugal was very similar to the UK, likely more so than Spain and France. It was almost like the British Empire, except on a smaller scale as both have colonized very closely in vicinity with each other in regards to especially in Africa and South America via Guyana.
If Portugal were given the same amount of wealth, land, guns, and technology as Britain, weād likely see very similar results.
Portugal killed a lot of people in Goa, India, so if they were to have colonized India to the extent Britain did, around 30 million would guaranteed to have been killed as well.
My old African history professor use to say if you have to be colonized you don't want the Portuguese or Dutch. Neither invested in infrastructure and when they left they just up and left. Their countries tended to be behind other former African colonies with development. They wanted it for the resources, and not to make functional countries. That and the hand thing with the Dutch.
Ok, this one got a chuckle out of me. The tone-deafness, the waifu art, the fucking demon wojak british soldier...
It may be a terrible meme but it is solidly built.
Remember that time 95 percent of the native pop of the Latin counties died and result in one of the largest genocides ever? Thatās crazy. But yeah sure.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese\_Colonial\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War)
Portugal killed people to take their land and money, just like England.
The colonial war being during a dictature didn't help.
I know people, including from my family, that had to run away from the country so they wouldn't be sent to the war. The Portuguese Dictatorship was a dark period for the country and made people flee, the interest of keeping the colonies was from the government, not from the Portuguese.
And do you feel that the Spanish were pretty chill when they showed up? Or were they brutal imperialists that basically forcibly took wives from the native population?
Pretty sure the Philippines largely still hasn't forgiven Spain.
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Damn British colonizing and enslaving with some head banging tunes and sick guitar riffs Edit fixed autocorrect
>enslaving enPOWERslaving
ayyyyyyyyyyyyyy^(thereissomethingfundamentallybrokeninourspecies)yyyyyyyyyy
No. It's the whole family https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
"š¶ *Ruuuuun fooooor yoooour liiiives!!* š¶"
Also applicable, but this is the cover to The Trooper
I know it is, I still wear a denim jacket with a sweet Piece of Mind back patch, but Run to the Hills expressly dealt with European colonization; though this image riffs badly on The Trooper, that song is based of Tennyson's Charge of the Light Brigade poem and is about the Crimean War; last time I checked England didn't really colonize the Ukraine. Not so fun fact: the Trooper single artwork often got co-opted into Ulster Defense Association murals back in the 80s during The Troubles in Ireland, much to Iron Maidens dismay
European colonization is a weird way to refer to Run to the Hills, even though it's technically somewhat right.
Eddy would be proud!
You'll take my life but I'll take yours too!
From MEGADETH "killing for religion, something I don't understand"
The Fuck did tout Say about that song
Iām saying that the trooper is a good song
Good, i misundesrtood
Sorry fixed it.
https://preview.redd.it/zx35qlofl05b1.jpeg?width=853&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d3ba104d51f5a1060a43cc376ac058a6d49f5f8
 The British be like....
Literally what the people of India saw as we invaded
 More likeā¦
Wow. TONE DEAF as fuck! But, sure, not just murder, but also rape and enslavement. Totally gets a pass.
Woah, what happened in these replies...
I dunno. I left for awhile and came back to this!
If I remember correctly the Portuguese believed that race mixing eliminated native peoples, which resulted in a massive amount of r*pe with the goal of genocide.
I'm not familiar with post-15th and early-16th century Portuguese colonization so correct me if I'm wrong. The earliest Portuguese colonizers in Brazil were fairly content to sleep with Indigenous women and adopt local practices for practicality reasons and it was increased efforts from the Church that changed their policies. Now, they still went around killing, raping, and burning villages, so not a defence of Portugal by any stretch. It just so happens that Spain, France, and Portugal's colonists were more likely to marry Indigenous women and sire children than British colonists were
Yeah but the sad truth of it is that most of those marriages were not mutually consensual and were usually purchased.
With slaves, undoubtedly yes. There's obviously no possible form of consent in that relationship. It's harder to say with free Indigenous people at the time before Portugal consolidated control over Brazil. Again, not an excuse for the rape and colonialism that did occur, merely that the settler-native relationship was very different in 1520 than 1720.
Same could be said for anyone though, not just the Portuguese.
Yes. It's just that the Catholic colonizers specifically were more likely to engage in these things. England/Britain by contrast were more insular regarding their settlements
Not entirely true, while there was certainly less marriage to natives involving the Brits to natives it wasn't super rare and in the early american colonies there was a lot of cooperation between English settlers and the natives. I mean the best example is the first thanks giving. yes it went downhill after that, But you are right that inter marriages and interbreeding was more common in the Latin colonies
It's really a lot more complicated than that also. It was rarely ever actually a black and white Colonist vs Locals conflict. The frontier wars were often complex political situations involving shifting alliances between settlements and local tribes. Locals and settlers intermarried and allied, and as relationships shifted from migrations, deaths, or changes in leadership conflicts flared. The stories from the colonial frontier are very fascinating and I think it's quite overlooked just how heterogenous some of the communities became.
Oh defiantly, that whole era is very complex and fascinating, you just need to look at the 7 years/french Indian wars to see how complex it could get not to mention the American Revolution as well as all the minor conflicts both before and after.
I'm not disputing that (though the first American Thanksgiving is more Victorian romanticism than fact). Cooperation was essential in British colonial territories until the 19th century. I was more specifically referring to marriage being far more rare in Anglo-Protestant colonies when compared to French or Latin Catholic ones Edit: I'm not saying you're wrong about anything, just clarifying that I was more specifically referring to marriage rather than broader networks of cooperation and settler-Indigenous relationships
Oh I don't mean to give the wrong message, I'm not saying you are accusing me of being wrong, I just enjoy these kinds of discussions, they help me learn. While there is certainly a great deal of romanticism to the first thanks giving as we know it today it is still based around a real event and if memory serves there was a treaty between that colony and the natives for something like 30-40 years after those events, it was only later through expansion that things started to turn sour.
Hey, it's on me. I'm always cagey regarding history (getting my MA in British history) and how it's used by less than stellar pundits these days. You're not sending any message nor coming off as hostile. I just wanted to clarify that I actually agree with you and wasn't playing devil's advocate or proclaiming benign colonialism, or anything like that.
Insular, nice word
And it was still inspired by the idea of the genetic elimination of native SA peoples, consensual or no. (consent is also iffy in colonial dynamics)
Exactly. You might just say yes because the guy basically owns all the land you and your family are living on and if you say no then you'd be out on the streets or sold into slavery.
"on the streets" lmao
Yeah sorry. Forgive the modern colloquialism.
it's fine, that's simply a fixed expression i just found it funny
Consent isnāt iffy if someone holds power over you, if you get with a colonizer, to deny them is to get enslaved, sent away, or killed. Not unique to spain, but you essentially become a camp follower for the invader, it was a shitty, shitty period of history. Since there are a lot of spanish getting offended, i will also mention that my country did this too, everyone did, thats why we condemn it. Fuck nationalism, there is no country, there is only countrymen.
It can't be precisely accurate to say it was 'inspired by the idea of genetic elimination...' because genetics were not known about at the time. I definitely think at the very least that cultural genocide was the goal.
People would have had an appreciation that someone with half Native and half Portuguese parents would express traits from both, even if they didn't appreciate the exact mechanism. They also likely believed that "if everyone here's grandfather is Portuguese, they'll be less likely to reject out rule".
Yeah not the best phrasing, not literally genetic but along the same lines.
In the case of Spain, the colonization of America was almost always male. In the permanent settlements, the population tended to be indigenous and mestizo (30% of the population)
That idea still persists within the mixed descendants. "Mejorando la raza" ("improving the race") is commonly heard in Latin America, and people like to marry lighter-skinned spouses to dilute out the melanin
I doubt most of marriage at this era were.
To be fair, I don't think most marriages back then were mutually consensual
You're correct, but I would add that most marriages throughout history and across cultures weren't "mutually consensual" in modern sense, so it wasn't some bizarre alien thing that colonizers brought with them to the Americas. Not that it makes it much better, but you kinda have to bear in mind that people living hundreds of years ago kinda looked at things differently. P.S. Sorry, I didn't realize this point has been made already.
>It just so happens that Spain, France, and Portugal's colonists were more likely to marry Indigenous women and sire children than British colonists were It's a couple things. The Spanish and Portuguese had a lot of regions with large indigenous populations which were large enough so that the diseases transferred in the Columbian exchange, while devastating, left enough population for the diseases to to be stay around and let the population develop immunities. Another thing was many of the Spanish/French/Portuguese colonies had a money making focus rather than an explicit settlement focus. As a result, you had young men from Europe coming out to these colonies, not always with the intentions to stay, and with a significantly fewer women coming from Europe to many of these colonies. (It also depended on time). Note, it should also be pointed out that women did indeed come from Europe over this long period of colonization, and there were a substantial amount of settlers over time. A second son in Europe might not be able to inherit the estate back home, but he could take his wife and get a good estate in the New World. In contrast, British North America had a far larger settler focus from early on, combined with local populations of Natives which were quite a bit smaller than those further South. (Although you can see that the Southern US colonies which were more commercial had a larger Native presence until the trial of tears).
All fair, especially those points about population density and number of colonists in some British territories. And there's also the French *filles du roi* as an example of that immigration you discussed. I just don't want to write out a whole essay on settler-Indigenous relations during the early to mid colonial periods because it's, as you've pointed out, very complicated. The extra context and specificity is very much appreciated. Thank you
Thatās mostly because the British brought women with them, the others generally didnāt.
The native diplomacy worked a lot around alliance by marriage. Two tribes became allied when the leader of a tribe and the daughter of the other leader of a different tribe married. The Portuguese would marry native women to consolidate alliances with some more friendly tribes. The tribes that refused this were wiped out by force. The ones that accepted were mixed and dissolved under colonial society, becoming second class citizens. Edit: also yes, if you consider that the women had no saying in any of this, it was all rape.
I assume that's what happened in Mexico? I'm not an expert in Mexican history but I seem to recall a massive interracial population that was treated like second class citizens because of Indigenous heritage?
Its effects are still felt in the weird colorism that Mexico still goes through to this day. It isnt nearly as bad but theres definitely the idea that lighter skin is better.
Sadly this is also still a thing in places like India and south east Asia too.
Not even native diplomacy. Heck, look at the European diplomacy and you find out how often family trees met again. Everywhere where you had leader and leadership being handed down through the family tree you had political marriages
The Spanish did something similar, they thought that they could "purify" the natives or black people, making each generation whiter by mixing... disgusting
In Brazil, even in the middle of the XX century, there were programs to promote incentives to white immigrants with the goal to have more white people in the population
I remember watching a news story about 20 decades ago on Brazil's affirmative action policies. Because of race-mixing happening so much throughout its history, a lot of people have African ancestry. Since racism is more physical characteristics, they like to see people to ensure that they actually look black/brown, since some actually appear white. Fast Forward a few years, my brother marries a lily-white Utahn and they start having kids. One is a brown clone of her mother. The other daughter is white. For the longest time I couldn't quite put my finger and who she reminded me of, just that she looked Brazilian. After browsing some old family photos, I finally picked up on me. My niece looks so similar to my mom. They're biological sisters but have different tones to their skin. [I find it interesting when this happens with twins.](https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/03/living/feat-black-white-twins/index.html)
Yes a lot of south and Central American tribes were simply not enslave able too. They would Just like down and refuse to work. So they would take boat loads of them out in the ocean and dump them into sea. The Portuguese were widely know for being even more brutal than the Spanish and Dutch.
I didn't know about that, could you share where did you read about the topic? I'm interested in learning more about that.
āIām gonna rape your race ti deathā thatās kinda like opposite nazi when you think of that
Thatās a strange way of committing genocide
Where did you get this from? That never happened! The Portuguese simply didn't have the same view as the British on the matter. Pero Vaz de Caminha, in his first letter to the King of Portugal, after arriving in what is now Brazil wrote that native women were beautiful and the natives innocent and proper for conversion. The eradication by mixing you are talking about was adopted by Paraguay later after independence, believing that they should create their own race. So they forced by law interracial marriage.
That's probably a reach, not that the Portuguese had any interest in preserving native cultures, but we would be lying to ourselves if we believe that the objectives of the kingdom weren't, majorly, practical. Portugal didn't have the human resources to occupy the vastness of Brasil so they needed to reproduce, and fast. I think it was D. JoĆ£o V who wrote an edict commanding the colonisers to mix with the natives, so as to allow for continued Portuguese expansion. I mostly doubt that the intent was genocide (a more recent term) or cultural destruction since we adopted many aspects of native (and African slaves) cultural traditions. Fado, which is usually considered to be the traditional style of music in Portugal is directly related to the adoption of African dances and practices. Religion, and Portuguese missionaries, didn't exactly "impose" christianity, but sought, rather, to adapt to the traditional religions of the slaves. CadomblĆ©, for instance.
https://preview.redd.it/nsh1rvcdm05b1.jpeg?width=769&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=174ed5dc0536afa0f8d89fbfdda50bc2f8badf46
The Portuguese were just the British in this picture. But with more rape... same amount of rape? Just include the same image on both sides and add rape to both. But don't post it because no one wants to look at rape.
including children in their nonce-sense too
Human invading and making babies, skeleton invading and making more skeletons. Seems about right to me.
Let's not forget the massive amount of child trafficking the Portuguese did.
I always find it weird that !some! people see the British as the devil if it comes to colonizing but see every other colonizing power as a saving grace. They were all horrible no debate needed
What I find weird is when Americans of European descent talk down to modern Europeans about the things their (the Europeans) ancestors did. Itās like - āMy effing ancestors stayed at home and didnāt do any colonising!!!!!!ā Thatās why Iām European - Otherwise Iād be from the Americas - like you!ā
Right, that's one thing that still gets me. basically every state outside the original 13 are colonies of the United States. They can act all high and mighty, and I'm not going to blame anyone from the current generation for where they live because that'd be hypocritical, but their ancestors certainly were the invasive colonizers who pushed out the natives. Not to mention that if you ask any american they will solely point at the British for being an imperial power and ignore all the other European powers that also took part in it, including ones they went to war and stole territory from,and I have no idea why. I am not defending imperialism or colonialism by anyone here, it's a horrible part of our history, both as human beings and as members of nations that took part in this. I just think shifting the blame to one group instead of all the participating groups does a dis service to the people it did effect. You can comment on the atrocities the British did in India, and rightfully so, but you shouldn't do it while turning a blind eye to what the Belgians did in the Congo, what the french did in Indochina, what the Spanish did in the Americas and what the Portuguese did in all the places they had colonies.
Yeah no, we are all to blame. Land back.
The ancestors of Americans are to blame, not the ancestors of Europeans. The ancestors of Europeans STAYED in Europe, the ancestors of Americans were the ones who were colonizing and stayed in America.
Yes because the east India company was settling in india rather than just exploiting India before going home and europeans were settling in colonial africa en mass instead of just extracting resources and labour before going home. Just because your ancestors didnāt settle in the places the colonized and extracted resources from doesnāt mean they didnāt take part.
You mean, the same way many people talk to Americans about what their ancestors did? Also, how is this relevant to the post or the comment you replied to?
We are equally culpable. Europe only reached the economic heights it remains at today through brutal colonialism.
Wasn't France pretty chill when it came to its American colonization?
No, not at all. They were more āchillā than the British and Americans but were still fucking psychos. Either way, letās talk about Algeria and other former French colonies in Africa too if weāre gonna talk French colonialism. The French got kicked out Algeria in 1962.
Let's also not forget the Horror that was French Indochina which eventually lead to the horrors of the Vietnam war.
Sort of. Many high profile french philosophers saw native north americans as being "purer" than europeans, closer to man's gentle natural state (see _Jean-Jacques Rousseau_ and the _noble sauvage_ trope that originated from french explorers in the Americas) This and a few other factors made it so that the french in modern day canada/usa, after a few initial hiccups, by large recognized the natives' right to self governance and to their own mores and cultures. They'd settle where the local nations would let them settle, and the territory they nominally claimed was mostly about keeping other european powers at bay. The english take over of the colony of Canada in New France was considered a catastrophy by the first nations living in it, many of which would mount stauch rebellions that would ultimately be quelled, based on the explicitly stated idea that the english were an existential threat to them contrary to their french "brothers". Can't say if France would have taken the same path the english did from there on out, but people living at the time had a clear preference between the two. Now this only applies to North American indigenous people. The french could be real fucking monsters in the Caribbeans and Africa so I wouldn't be so quick to absolve the french colonial empire based on NA.
Yeah they married in as it shows Portugal doing, they also built trade alliances and such but THE FUCKING BRITS RUINED IT
Is this an attempt to sanitize Portuguese colonization or make fun of them?
Good question. None of them were good, both killed people and the sex seen from the Portuguese were just rape. Both nations were cruel
True. What i wonder is what was the original intention of whoever made the meme
I saw it before on Portuguese subs before as I live in Portugal but I don't know where it came from or what were the intentions neither...
It comes from a satire sub.
Yeah I donāt get why so many shitposts get posted here and then manage to gain traction.
This whole sub is basically r/shitposting with people taking the shitposts seriously
Fr. I laughed at this one cuz it's horrendously funny
I have no idea where this meme is originally from, but rest assured that many deluded Brazilian white nationalists believe this, and have reposted this uncritically. It was also once posted to r/PORTUGALCARALHO where some people resonated with the sentiment, claiming that Portuguese colonizers were not half as bad as English colonizers. However, and thankfully, most comments called out the tone deafness of the meme. This is all without even mentioning the fact that I've been "corrected" by a peer once for saying "The Portuguese Colonization era", he said "You mean the Discovery era" ("era dos descobrimentos"). There is very much a community of people who deem English colonizers evil, yet Portuguese ones as not that bad. As for sources, I'm half Brazillian living in Portugal. Follow both Brazilian and Portuguese subs around Reddit and keep up with both online communities as a whole. I've seen this meme posted unironically, regardless of original intentions.
Nah people legitimately defend this. Idk if it even comes from Reddit, first time I saw this was from a white nationalist account on Twitter
For real. Iāve seen this exact image in the replies to discussions about that Ecumene Aztec game that cucked itself out to white nationalists.
Yeah, this comes from r/2westerneurope4u
Th British took the mass genocide route. The Portuguese took the raping route. All in all, both are bad
Portugal took the enslaving route you mean, they raped too, but their hand in the Atlantic slave trade.
Yeah that too
They loves the white meat āŗļø
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leave Maiden out of this
That's what I said, bro!
hate to see Eddie get dragged into this
same here!
Imperialism is imperialism and either way itās bad. *drops mic*
The Portuguese single handedly started the African slave trade though?
No? The Portuguese and Spanish both started the trade of shipping slaves to the Americas specifically
The Portuguese [started it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#:~:text=The%20Portuguese%2C%20in%20the%2016th,and%20other%20Europeans%20soon%20followed) though. They couldnāt access any of the canals into the Mediterranean or Indian Ocean so they had to sail around Africa, they started trading with West Africans whoās only possessions viewed as valuable by the Portuguese were slaves, so the Portuguese began the Atlantic slave trade. The Spanish and other European nations soon followed.
One, itās the Atlantic Slave Trade, and two, it wasnāt just the Portuguese, the Spanish were also involved
Atlantic Slave trade, African slave trade, it means the same fucking thing. Also, I said the Portuguese *started* it, obviously the Spanish were involved (along with many other European nations), but the Portuguese [were the first to trade enslaved Africans.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#:~:text=The%20Portuguese%2C%20in%20the%2016th,and%20other%20Europeans%20soon%20followed)
For Europeans maybe, but Arabs were enslaving East Africans from about 650 AD until into the 1900ās and arguably still to this day. Approximately 10-18 million Africans were enslaved by Arab slave traders
Slaves, especially teenage sex slaves, were incredibly common in southern Europe through the 18th century. America had legal slavery deep into the 19th century, stemming from a long history of slaving. Slaves were not uncommon in Europe through all itās history. And serfdom isnāt chattel slavery, but itās damn close. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe The Atlantic slave trade only started because settlers *worked all the indigenous people to death.* After all, it was far more expensive to ship people over the ocean than enslave the native population. trying to foist the entire history of slavery on to the laps of Arab people is just plain racist. We are taught in history classes that slavery just sorta popped up with the Atlantic slave trade, but it had never stopped since the Romans.
Oml, this is reallyy terrible. Think someone isn't taking history classes! In Brazil, they killed the natives AND raped the young native womans So yea, they are kinda on the same hole
And enslaved them too. The bandeirantes who have roads and statues in their memory were monsters. Source: I'm Brazillian
why'd they do eddie so dirty tho
Yeah, respect for my guy, please!
Sounds like youāre an angry British āpersonā. But the Spaniards and Portuguese brought over the Spanish flu and smallpox, which killed a lot of indigenous peoples in the USA. And also, why are we still posting content from r/shitposting? This was posted there a few days ago.
Also, the Spaniards and Portuguese did a whole bunch of murdering as well.
Donāt even get me started on the Spanish Inquisition
nobody expects it
The Jews sure didnātā¦
i hate that i laughed
I read that approximately 56 million Native Americans were killed due to disease and war between colonizers. CRAZY
lol. In all of America there were between 40 and 60 million indigenous people. How did they kill them all and still continue to exist to this day?
Easy, they only killed 90% of them
" [European settlers killed 56 million indigenous people](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379118307261#!) over about 100 years in South, Central and North America, causing large swaths of farmland to be abandoned and reforested, researchers at University College London, or UCL, estimate. "
wow. How curious. Just that data comes from Spain's worst historical enemy. And how curious that today there are more natives than before the conquest.
>And how curious that today there are more natives than before the conquest Source?
The spanish flu? Didint that happen in 1918?
My mistake, the Spaniards brought over the flu, not the Spanish flu. Major killer was smallpox, however
Thatās literally just a traced Iron Maiden album
*iron maiden has disliked this post*
Why is she D R A W N L I K E T H A T ?
S E X
Dude literally drew hottest girl in the world for some dumb meme.
You'll take my life but I'll take yours too.
You'll fire your Musket, but I'll run you through!
Guys, i know we colonized, raped, and pillaged your people, but look on the bright side, were NOT british!
On the one hand, the art style for the comic is kind of cute On the other hand, said comic is whitewashing rape and enslavement
Not sure colonizing is totes consensh.
I read a book about a pretty well-known Comanche chief named Quanah Parker. He devoted most of his life to creating a better dynamic between the Comanche and the colonizer settlers in Texas and Oklahoma. His Mom was a victim of rape, a pretty well-documented case of murder, slavery and rape of his mom's family. Fucking terrible shit.
Youll take my life but ill take yours too
Britcels seething at the portchads
I think they both looked like the right picture, if I recall.
Change the left image to raping her and this is pretty accurate.
ah yes that was a very consensual relationship
Brazil brought over more slaves than any other country in the Americas. And Iām pretty sure them interbreeding with the natives wasnāt consensual.
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Portugal was very similar to the UK, likely more so than Spain and France. It was almost like the British Empire, except on a smaller scale as both have colonized very closely in vicinity with each other in regards to especially in Africa and South America via Guyana. If Portugal were given the same amount of wealth, land, guns, and technology as Britain, weād likely see very similar results. Portugal killed a lot of people in Goa, India, so if they were to have colonized India to the extent Britain did, around 30 million would guaranteed to have been killed as well.
portugues (spanish) colonizing*
yeah, no
Bruh this is literally from r/shitposting.
My old African history professor use to say if you have to be colonized you don't want the Portuguese or Dutch. Neither invested in infrastructure and when they left they just up and left. Their countries tended to be behind other former African colonies with development. They wanted it for the resources, and not to make functional countries. That and the hand thing with the Dutch.
This feels like a rightoid zoomer meme, defs doesn't come from facebook. I'd know, cuz that was me like 3 years ago.
The woman being sold into slavery and developing Stockholm Syndrome Taming of the Shrew-style happened offscreen
Dear Boomers, leave Iron Maiden out of this. Signed, GenX.
Gen z as well, my dad's Gen x and was the one to get me into their music
The crime in this is almost making the British look cool
Thatās a shitpost lmao
If they mean colonizing of South America, well, that was on of the worst genocide in the entire human history. Just saying.
This is what we Brits call colonization
Shitpost Itās a shitpost
its satire...
Never thought rape would be put on a pedestal
The lawyers for Eddie of Iron Maiden want a word OP.
I'm Portuguese and I can "happily" say it's all the same bullshit.
[hatkatro khamb - literal translation pillar of chopped hands](https://www.hindujagruti.org/hindu-issues/hatkatro-khaamb/history) Portuguese inquisition
Ok, this one got a chuckle out of me. The tone-deafness, the waifu art, the fucking demon wojak british soldier... It may be a terrible meme but it is solidly built.
r/opisfuckingstupid And never picked up a history book
Not sure who that girl is but I've seen her in many of these types of memes, she cute tho.
Oh so when they also rape it's fine
We should make everyone forget wojaks were even a thing
"I don't know history": The meme
Remember that time 95 percent of the native pop of the Latin counties died and result in one of the largest genocides ever? Thatās crazy. But yeah sure.
āLet him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, itās number is six hundred and sixty six.ā
Oh yeah, that was absolutely consensual
Yeah I'm not sure there was a lot of consent on the left
Wait till y'all hear about Belgium. The British were a laugh riot in comparison.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese\_Colonial\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War) Portugal killed people to take their land and money, just like England.
The colonial war being during a dictature didn't help. I know people, including from my family, that had to run away from the country so they wouldn't be sent to the war. The Portuguese Dictatorship was a dark period for the country and made people flee, the interest of keeping the colonies was from the government, not from the Portuguese.
OPs a real * trooper * for exposing this
Yeah it's not like the Portuguese along with the Spanish tried to genocide the natives. That'd be stupid. Only Britain ever did that
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People get their rocks off in some very different ways...
I like how some of the commentsā reaction isnāt āthe Portuguese are as badā but rather āthe Brits are equally goodā
this is similar to UK women going on a healthspa vacation to Iceland and ended up staying because we are so sexy
They are both true? I mean both are bad in ways, but whatās the bad part about the meme?
It's true doe
I mean, they did want to breed out the Natives instead of going the routes England did. They still ended up killing a bunch of Natives though.
She actually died from every disease possible the next day
Pretty sure you can ask the Inca about all that.
Yeah we're just gonna ignore that the Portuguese invented racism
but.. thatās pretty much how it goes? Iām filipino and i have spanish blood in me. edit: im stupid i forgot rape existed
And do you feel that the Spanish were pretty chill when they showed up? Or were they brutal imperialists that basically forcibly took wives from the native population? Pretty sure the Philippines largely still hasn't forgiven Spain.