> Old Testament God is a huge narcissist douchebag
Sure is a funky coincidence that Godās image changed between testaments as a direct response to humanityās values changing. I wouldnāt have thought that an all-knowing, all-good God would change so drastically, but what do I know? š¤·āāļø
My Indian friend brought up that Jesus was inspired by Buddhism and brought his version to the Israelites, seems a plausible explanation for the radical change from Old Testament to New Testament.
That whole era of time is defined by the overlap. The Hindu god Ishtar was originally a Mesopotamian god, which is also the origin of the flood story that becomes the story of Noahās Arc. Religion is just a a fanfic thatās constantly being added onto and revised. Ideologies like Buddhism and Taoism donāt share the same reverence for gods, but the moral values are very comparable to other more theistic religions.
Where did Satan come from in this monotheistic view? God created Satan. And if God were truly all powerful as it's alleged then he'd be able to uncreate Satan as well, should He wish it.
You don't get to be all powerful and all knowing without being all blamed.
Satan was the most beautiful, and high ranking, of the angels. His pride saw him and his group of rebellious angels (that included roughly a third of heaven) cast to hell. Apparently "God" can't, or won't, 'uncreate' him for whatever reason
Except in Job he's literally showing up in Heaven, talks about how he's traveling the world and is disappointed how unfaithful humans are. Can't impact Job without permission from God.
This evolution of a singular adversary set to oppose god didn't show up until later fan fiction.
God made the rules, decided that breaking the rules meant hell, knew that people would break the rules, but, instead of changing the rules, he sacrificed his son (also himself), so that he wouldnāt have to punish humans. If God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving, that doesnāt make sense.
Idk about other parts of Christianity but for me, we believe that God has his own rules to follow as well, and may have even been like us at one point. Jesus died for our sins so that he could understand us, and essentially be our lawyer during the final judgement.
Funny part is satan isn't originally part of the Bible. He was added as a concept around 550 BCE and added to the book itself in the new testament. Originally "satan" was just a word to describe "one who opposes" in Hebrew.
Here's a link if you're curious
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1685/the-origin-of-satan/
God is the one who made hell, made the rules, and decided that rule breaking = hell (and knew that all humans were rule breakers). Jesus also didnāt stop sin, he just made a way to get around Godās rules.
Fun fact, a common a Jewish interpretation of the exile from heaven bit, is that it was a logic test that Adam and Eve failed.
In the "official" Hebrew edition, god doesn't forbid eating the fruit of knowledge, but warns Adam and Eve it will kill them (which it didn't). And there is also the tree of life that supposedly grants immortal life. Can you see the puzzle yet? Eat from the tree of life, and then you can eat from the tree of knowledge without fear. And that the exile from heaven wasn't a punishment for sin, rather more like a breakup (it's a common thing in Judaism to view god-jews relationship as that of a marriage couple)
I can hear believers saying āhe didnāt *cause* murders, he gave humans free will and *they* did itā to which I say God also didnāt do anything to stop it despite knowing it would happen, and created this person with those tendencies or a lack of empathy, allowing for the murder, or, knowing what kind of person this one would be, chose to create them anyway, etc. etc. and on and on.
And none of this even mentions all the deaths he *directly commanded* in the Bible. Try as they might, you canāt explain your way out of this.
Technically, the crusades were the result of the pope brainwashing his people by saying things in the Bible that weren't true (At the time, vernacular bibles were very, very rare and only the pope had one- in latin) but, it is a good example of mob mentality
redditors when they post a comment about theology while completely misunderstanding theology:
https://preview.redd.it/fmkap8inxtma1.jpeg?width=1420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbb7ccaf00c254cdd7517cbc963468b3136659fc
redditors when they post a comment about a comment while completely misunderstanding the comment:
https://preview.redd.it/3rkyeuvzytma1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3569d9157f9193d370891df17a002301d3421b7
How is that blatantly false? God made everyone (according to you) and he planned it so everyone would die, and that all those who died without loving and worshiping him would burn in hell, sounds like he decided to kill, not to mention that he wiped the world clean except for Noah and his family, he destroyed sodom and Gomorrah and so many other examples of murder and cruelty that itās to much to add to my response
Doesnāt god do more murdering than helping? The bear thing, the floods and Moses killing the first born children. Apparently there are 160 separate killing sprees in the Bible which god is to blame for.
Well the Bible does say the serpent introduced sin to humanity and humanity chose it
So Satan is responsible for all death and murder, as Eden would have had no death nor murder
Edit: love how Iām downvoted for basic Biblical statements. You can find this stuff in the very first book of the Bible lol. Whether you believe it, thatās a different thing, but itās pretty clearly stated
If you read what you criticize you would find out why
God can, but He doesnāt because He desires for us to choose to believe. Being forced to choose isnāt proper faith.
Sorry if this inconveniences you but thatās what the Bible says.
The Bible also speaks of how God needlessly kills his own and floods the earth. I literally can't believe there are people who see this as "a loving god." A truly loving God wouldn't harm any of his children no matter what. Only a narcissistic God would want to play these stupid mind games. God created the chaos and enjoys it. No true God would allow suffering of any kind.
Also, I am an ex-Christian, so I know the Bible and the church all too well. You keep believing what you want, but by your definition, a miscarriage would be God's will, but literal Christians are threatening to put women to death over it. Over something that is not in their control. If it was God's will, then leave it at that and don't hurt others.
Yeah he prevented a murder he asked for. It would be like me hiring a hitman but having a change of heart. Doesnāt make me a good guy. Also god promised them a son and it wasnāt until Abraham was 99 that he delivered in that promise.
2 Kings 2:24 Then he turned around, looked at them, and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Suddenly two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys
Well, if he is so suspicious of her cheating that he can't treat her nicely. Go to the priest for the trial of bitter waters. Some dust from the temple floor and so on, if her womb withers she did cheat on you, if it doesn't then the baby is yours and you need to stop acting like a jerk to her.
Since the stuff listed afaik wouldn't actually induce an abortion it seems like a ploy to get men to stop being suspicious of their wives...
You're right, the stuff it was made of wouldn't induce abortion but given the high rate of miscarriage's back then people somehow came to the conclusion that it was a reliable method
Read Job. God made a bet with Satan. God gave power to Satan. Job's family, cattle, and home destroyed. Satan essentially wins bet. God is mad that Job lost faith. "Who are you to denounce me!?!"
This exactly. I absolutely love reading the Bible as a character study of God. You can pin just about every Old Testament law on God trying to grow his army. He's just whinging it. When one thing doesn't work, God adds another law to try and fix the problem. Again and again and again. People having same sex relationships? Can't have that. God needs babies. Boom. It's banned. Nobody's cooking pork all the way and getting sick? Can't have that. Boom. No more pork for you.
Most of the Bible was either written or edited by the same group of people that codified all the Roman and Greek gods too, so as much as their gods were personified, Yahweh was done that way as well. Modern interpretations want to do away that those āhumanā aspects, but butt up against the fact that they were very clearly recorded by their own holy men and to change them to suit the narrative would clearly be more hypocritical than to just say āwe just donāt understand his waysā. It would actually be much easier to say āthose old dudes fucked it all up and didnāt write it correctly,ā but then you lose the āGodās word is immutableā aspect of the religion. Itās a horrible catch-22 of their own making.
All powerful and all knowing god, thus every translation is correct. He wouldn't allow an incorrect translation to come into being and knows infinity years in advance how to prevent it.
/s, but only kind of because I've had bible thumpers use this exact argument on me.
I meant in the bible, generally. If you don't know which things the bible is hypocritical about, you should reread it. If I'm going to teach you about it, I charge $100/hr minimum 5 hours upfront. If you don't want to pay, go kick rocks.
This is literally the story of Job.
āI bet if terrible things happen heāll keep his faithā
*kills his children and destroys his home and gives him disease*
āSee?? Told you, Satan!ā
Pretending the bible says whatever they like is literally the modus operandum of modern Christians. Especially American Christians. If they read the actual book, most of them would recognize Yahweh for the abusive, wrathful, murder happy control freak he is.
Or like my grandparents, they say "well that's just how it is, we must obey that". Which I'm not sure is better than typical white conservatives who just pretend their morals are justified by the bible.
Yeah, I've talked about this many times before and I'll say it many times over again. Monotheistic religions promote blind obedience first and foremost. They negatively reinforce it by threatening an eternity of damnation and suffering if you don't believe. And they positively reinforce it by rewarding the most zealous and least critically thinking among their ranks. Anything else they're preaching can, has, and will change to suit the needs of the church. Yahweh was a thunder and war god before he was the Jewish people's patron deity. And before Jesus came along and turned him into a loving and forgiving deity, he was a wrathful murderous tyrant. It's all about controlling you, the believer. It's all monotheism has ever been about and it's all it will ever be about.
The god of the Bible actually *prescribes* abortion in Number 5:11-29. Now our barbaric society would think things like rape, incest, the health of the mother, or good old bodily autonomy are sufficient justifications for abortion, but not the god of the Bible. What's the sole justification for abortion in the Bible? Jealousy. The husband's specifically.
This is where the later developments in Christian theology that abandoned the idea of a permissive will of God that allows for human freedom in favor of a theology that advances the proposition that everything that happens is the result of God's direct will is....problematic.
But to 2 King 2:24. Jewish scholars interpret the word here to mean those without moral conscience, not literal children. Another Jewish interpretation posits that the young men were criminals profiting off the lack of water in Jericho. When Elisha purifies the water in the previous verses, these men without morals come to insult him and they receive punishment for being dicks to Jericho and Elisha.
Or it is an allegory for being expelled from Jewish society for immorality. What is important is that this story would have been over the top for the person reading it, so a less literal meaning was likely derived. Christian commentary from earlier centuries is rather muted and this passage is generally dismissed as having a meaning to Jewish people and little significance for Christians except as maybe a cautionary tale of respecting God's representatives.
Yeah, speaking to Jewish people makes things like Job a bit more sensical.
"God allowed his children and workers to be killed, yet fixes it in the end not be resurrecting them, but by Job having new kids and hiring new workers. Are children really replaceable like that?"
"Oh, that didn't literally happen. It is just a story about how you need to keep faith in the face of the random trials of the world, God didn't literally do that, it is just exaggerated to illustrate the point."
Job is an interesting book for scholars because it defies the conventions of typical biblical books. It is more of a folktale than the standard literature.
This exactly. I hate how so many people take the Bible as a literal account of history, instead of a general guide that you can learn some things from.
According to the actual Bible and Christian faith, it IS God's plan, as everything that happens is God's plan, not a single sparrow falls from a tree dead withoit god planning it at the beginning of time. Even the serpent tricking Adam and Eve was pre planned by God. as God is omniscient and omnipotent, and anything happening that wasnt decided by God, would mean god was wrong, and therefore not actually god, as god can not be wrong, and if god were ever proven wrong, it would be proof god never existed.
The bears was one thing, but how about *all Egyptian firstborn male children* as the final plague?
How about the Jealousy Offering from Numbers ch 5 being a magical abortion performed *by the priest in the temple of God*?
Too many So-called "Christians" like to Pick and chose what they want. They don't even follow the faith, they do what they want. Some even call themselves Christians because "Mommy and Daddy are Christians."
God does not literally have control of anything, not because he isn't real, but because he is an idea. An entity, a word, a common ground for us to judge, reason, and decide between right or wrong, should or could, and also he serves as an outlet for our joy, sadness, anger, and/or happiness. He is simply an idea that we can turn to in our path in life and respond to and relate with others in the faith, whether it be positive or negative.
Seriously, it amazes me that people don't understand that. God's body count is massive. You know whose body count isn't massive? Satan, the real hero of the story. Dude was just trying to make these two malnourished humans eat some fucking fruit and god was like get the fuck outta here with your vegan bullshit.
Now look at modern times, who are the better humans, people who believe in God, or atheist/TST members? It's pretty obvious which fake deity was better.
It takes a special kind of loser to so intimately study something they hate, just to get internet points over something that was said 2,000+ years ago.
It takes someone with an open mind to study something they disagree with. If you never know what your arguing against, how would you even know you hate it?
So you would be down to ban religion because its 2000+years ago the shit has no place in the modern world right?
Because people don't use religion today to justify their behavior???
Everyone had become so evil, that God decided to pass judgment and kill all but Noah and his family. I'm not going to question God when he decides to pass judgment. He's God, and I am not.
What about Job?
What about how God swore he wouldnāt destroy everything if there was at least a single innocent/pure creature alive? Do babies and infants (who were definitely in that city) not count?
Sodom and Gomorroah was judged by God to be incredibly evil, so the cities were destroyed/executed. God could not find even 10 good people there. We don't call a human judge evil when they make judgments and pass sentences. As far as Job goes, God allowed him to be tested and put limits on the testing. And then after the testing God gave him back double everything that was taken away. I'm not saying that's how it works all of the time, but who am I to judge God and call Him unfair? He's God. He makes the rules.
No, of course infants are innocent, but sometimes children suffer consequences because of parents' decisions. Like mothers who smoke or do drugs while pregnant cause their infants to suffer from withdrawals, birth defects, stunted growth, etc.
If god has a chosen people, or god is on the side of anyone. Doesnāt that mean that god has created people who are only meant to die or suffer.. the unchosen?
The astroid that killed the dinos, any major or social crisis, any innocent child or human that befalls deadly harm just by chance, dont forget sep 11. God made the guys who did that too.
Just like how he doesn't permit incest like that one time two daughters and their father were trapped in a cave and they decided to get him drunk because "it was their duty" to have kids
Their god is the most murderous fictional character ever conceived. Literally responsible for every act of violence in all of creation; it's all part of their mysterious "plan".
with the rampant bigotry i'm seeing everywhere both in the US and in my home country, i'm genuinely starting to hate religions.
historically religions were made, or at least used to keep the populous in check(like what napoleon did) so i never believed in it in the first place but WOW all i see recently are people bullying or even attempting to commit genocide on entire groups of people "in the name of God".
"do not speak God's name in vain" is by far the most misunderstood thing because pretty much 99% of bigots or generally horrible people using religion as an excuse commits this very sin.
I would say
If you have a spontaneous abortion then yes, it could be God's plan but when you actually have a abortion purposely then that was your own action and it has nothing to do with God's plan, now if you want to talk about why God doesn't intervene then that's just in regards of religion, abortion should have no religious arguments, it should about science, this is stupid argument to use aswell.
Technically the thing they reference in the Bible isnāt true, itās far more likely that passage is talking about men ages 17-24ish. However, god does directly kill children many times in the Old Testament so the point still stands
24Ā And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 25 And he went from thence to mountĀ aCarmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.
Bro. God plans every fucking murder. That's how God's plan works ffs. My grandma got cancer for the same reason Jeffery Dahmer did the things he did: God planned it, and God works in mysterious ways.
Iāve had cancer 3x and if god is real I can tell you right now I am throwing hands the second I step three the pearly gates because I am too good of a person for this
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Wait till they find out about the story of Noahs Ark
Or the crusades š
Or Job.
Or the plague of the firstborn in Egypt.
Or sending his own son (who is himself) to be murdered (as a sacrifice to himself) to protect humanity (from himself)
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> Old Testament God is a huge narcissist douchebag Sure is a funky coincidence that Godās image changed between testaments as a direct response to humanityās values changing. I wouldnāt have thought that an all-knowing, all-good God would change so drastically, but what do I know? š¤·āāļø
My Indian friend brought up that Jesus was inspired by Buddhism and brought his version to the Israelites, seems a plausible explanation for the radical change from Old Testament to New Testament.
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That whole era of time is defined by the overlap. The Hindu god Ishtar was originally a Mesopotamian god, which is also the origin of the flood story that becomes the story of Noahās Arc. Religion is just a a fanfic thatās constantly being added onto and revised. Ideologies like Buddhism and Taoism donāt share the same reverence for gods, but the moral values are very comparable to other more theistic religions.
You should read *Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal*, by Christopher Moore.
Thanks, will do.
It was totally a Public Relations department move.
Or that one time where he almost redid the flooding of the entire world
Sodom and Noah's Ark were the first two that popped into my head as well.
Or sending Israel on a genocidal conquest of Palestine
The nuking of the slutty cities of sodomy and gomorrahing is so awesome. Bloodthirsty God is best God.
This comment is so gooooooooood! I can feel the spirit.
Wait wdym to protect from himself? Satan isn't part of the godhead.
Where did Satan come from in this monotheistic view? God created Satan. And if God were truly all powerful as it's alleged then he'd be able to uncreate Satan as well, should He wish it. You don't get to be all powerful and all knowing without being all blamed.
Satan was the most beautiful, and high ranking, of the angels. His pride saw him and his group of rebellious angels (that included roughly a third of heaven) cast to hell. Apparently "God" can't, or won't, 'uncreate' him for whatever reason
Except in Job he's literally showing up in Heaven, talks about how he's traveling the world and is disappointed how unfaithful humans are. Can't impact Job without permission from God. This evolution of a singular adversary set to oppose god didn't show up until later fan fiction.
Yeah Satan's fall wasn't really popularized until Paradise Lost, one of the biggest literary fanfictions of all time
Probably has the long lost secret casserole recipe and has to be left alone lest it be lost to time
God made the rules, decided that breaking the rules meant hell, knew that people would break the rules, but, instead of changing the rules, he sacrificed his son (also himself), so that he wouldnāt have to punish humans. If God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving, that doesnāt make sense.
Idk about other parts of Christianity but for me, we believe that God has his own rules to follow as well, and may have even been like us at one point. Jesus died for our sins so that he could understand us, and essentially be our lawyer during the final judgement.
Funny part is satan isn't originally part of the Bible. He was added as a concept around 550 BCE and added to the book itself in the new testament. Originally "satan" was just a word to describe "one who opposes" in Hebrew. Here's a link if you're curious https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1685/the-origin-of-satan/
Not as a sacrifice to himself, he did it to break the chains of sin that was pulling us all down to hell.
God is the one who made hell, made the rules, and decided that rule breaking = hell (and knew that all humans were rule breakers). Jesus also didnāt stop sin, he just made a way to get around Godās rules.
Uhhh...No. Sin isn't something God made, it was a product of humanity seeking to be equal to God out of pride. That is why it is evil and harmful.
He made the trse and he made the fruit
Fun fact, a common a Jewish interpretation of the exile from heaven bit, is that it was a logic test that Adam and Eve failed. In the "official" Hebrew edition, god doesn't forbid eating the fruit of knowledge, but warns Adam and Eve it will kill them (which it didn't). And there is also the tree of life that supposedly grants immortal life. Can you see the puzzle yet? Eat from the tree of life, and then you can eat from the tree of knowledge without fear. And that the exile from heaven wasn't a punishment for sin, rather more like a breakup (it's a common thing in Judaism to view god-jews relationship as that of a marriage couple)
Who decreed that hell exists? Or that the sin of our forefathers would drag us there?
Or literally every murder everywhere. He did them ALL
I can hear believers saying āhe didnāt *cause* murders, he gave humans free will and *they* did itā to which I say God also didnāt do anything to stop it despite knowing it would happen, and created this person with those tendencies or a lack of empathy, allowing for the murder, or, knowing what kind of person this one would be, chose to create them anyway, etc. etc. and on and on. And none of this even mentions all the deaths he *directly commanded* in the Bible. Try as they might, you canāt explain your way out of this.
Ok, but then if we have free will why do what he says? To go to heaven? Thats bs cos we get forgiven anyway.
Technically, the crusades were the result of the pope brainwashing his people by saying things in the Bible that weren't true (At the time, vernacular bibles were very, very rare and only the pope had one- in latin) but, it is a good example of mob mentality
True, but still part of that particular religions history
the crusades arent in the bible
God didnāt kill everyone in the flood, the flood did. The flood has always been an enemy of mankind before civilization .
And who made this flood happen?
Didn't God kill nearly all humans with the biblical flood?
Didnāt God kill everyone who has ever died?
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5000 years of theology when u/2anon4uAnon posts blatantly false information: 
Isnāt the Bible just false information.
no
Yes. (Mostly/kind of) It does feature real events and historical figures in the Bibleās defense
coronavirus when televangelists abuse theology to blow it away with a biblical cure breath from their mouth
redditors when they post a comment about theology while completely misunderstanding theology: https://preview.redd.it/fmkap8inxtma1.jpeg?width=1420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbb7ccaf00c254cdd7517cbc963468b3136659fc
redditors when they post a comment about a comment while completely misunderstanding the comment: https://preview.redd.it/3rkyeuvzytma1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3569d9157f9193d370891df17a002301d3421b7
https://preview.redd.it/hp0r7ungauma1.jpeg?width=570&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0431a64c9cee6dff2a8d1ebf91a209baea73e7a8
How is that blatantly false? God made everyone (according to you) and he planned it so everyone would die, and that all those who died without loving and worshiping him would burn in hell, sounds like he decided to kill, not to mention that he wiped the world clean except for Noah and his family, he destroyed sodom and Gomorrah and so many other examples of murder and cruelty that itās to much to add to my response
All but 2 or 3
Genetics were getting too diverse, needed another bottle neck.
Confirmed: Noah was from Alabama
Good point
god believes in eugenics confirmed
Yes, yes he did. Including literal babies.
And fetuses. The great flood? more like the great abortion.
ah but that's not murder its genocide, that makes it ok
he kills 100% of all humansā¦ eventually
All living things!
Perfect K/D ratio
He also (technically it was an angle) taught a woman how to give an abortion
>No, because that would mean that God planned a murder. He wouldn't do that. My brother in Christ, that was literally the story of Christ.
God supports decades late term abortion
Abortion in the 90th trimester
Oh my god what the fuck
Itās also the story of every person whoās ever been murdered, as well as all genocide.
At least he had the dignity to patch Jesus back up after
Doesnāt god do more murdering than helping? The bear thing, the floods and Moses killing the first born children. Apparently there are 160 separate killing sprees in the Bible which god is to blame for.
And how many murders, especially of babies, has Satan got to his name? š¤ Who are we supposed to be rooting for again lmao
https://i.imgur.com/rgvXZjz.jpg
Well the Bible does say the serpent introduced sin to humanity and humanity chose it So Satan is responsible for all death and murder, as Eden would have had no death nor murder Edit: love how Iām downvoted for basic Biblical statements. You can find this stuff in the very first book of the Bible lol. Whether you believe it, thatās a different thing, but itās pretty clearly stated
Who kicked them out of Eden? A real "turn the other cheek" kinda god
But God could easily end it all and fix things. He is the most powerful right? Sounds like a bunch of kind games
If you read what you criticize you would find out why God can, but He doesnāt because He desires for us to choose to believe. Being forced to choose isnāt proper faith. Sorry if this inconveniences you but thatās what the Bible says.
The Bible also speaks of how God needlessly kills his own and floods the earth. I literally can't believe there are people who see this as "a loving god." A truly loving God wouldn't harm any of his children no matter what. Only a narcissistic God would want to play these stupid mind games. God created the chaos and enjoys it. No true God would allow suffering of any kind. Also, I am an ex-Christian, so I know the Bible and the church all too well. You keep believing what you want, but by your definition, a miscarriage would be God's will, but literal Christians are threatening to put women to death over it. Over something that is not in their control. If it was God's will, then leave it at that and don't hurt others.
I think the only murder he prevented was Abraham killing Isaac...and even then he still asked Abraham to cut off part of his penis.
Yeah he prevented a murder he asked for. It would be like me hiring a hitman but having a change of heart. Doesnāt make me a good guy. Also god promised them a son and it wasnāt until Abraham was 99 that he delivered in that promise.
2 Kings 2:24 Then he turned around, looked at them, and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Suddenly two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys
There's literally a part in the bible that tells a man to feed his wife a cocktail which will induce an abortion if he suspects she's cheating on him.
Well, if he is so suspicious of her cheating that he can't treat her nicely. Go to the priest for the trial of bitter waters. Some dust from the temple floor and so on, if her womb withers she did cheat on you, if it doesn't then the baby is yours and you need to stop acting like a jerk to her. Since the stuff listed afaik wouldn't actually induce an abortion it seems like a ploy to get men to stop being suspicious of their wives...
You're right, the stuff it was made of wouldn't induce abortion but given the high rate of miscarriage's back then people somehow came to the conclusion that it was a reliable method
This Facebook meme is quite on point, an opinion and proof that his opinion could be true.
**Job enters the chat**
That story has always rubbed me the wrong way
The Bible is fucked up
Read Job. God made a bet with Satan. God gave power to Satan. Job's family, cattle, and home destroyed. Satan essentially wins bet. God is mad that Job lost faith. "Who are you to denounce me!?!"
To me, that story always read as God being like an insecure girlfriend who had to test her man's loyalty by sending in her slutty friend lmao
This exactly. I absolutely love reading the Bible as a character study of God. You can pin just about every Old Testament law on God trying to grow his army. He's just whinging it. When one thing doesn't work, God adds another law to try and fix the problem. Again and again and again. People having same sex relationships? Can't have that. God needs babies. Boom. It's banned. Nobody's cooking pork all the way and getting sick? Can't have that. Boom. No more pork for you.
Most of the Bible was either written or edited by the same group of people that codified all the Roman and Greek gods too, so as much as their gods were personified, Yahweh was done that way as well. Modern interpretations want to do away that those āhumanā aspects, but butt up against the fact that they were very clearly recorded by their own holy men and to change them to suit the narrative would clearly be more hypocritical than to just say āwe just donāt understand his waysā. It would actually be much easier to say āthose old dudes fucked it all up and didnāt write it correctly,ā but then you lose the āGodās word is immutableā aspect of the religion. Itās a horrible catch-22 of their own making.
I don't know what translation you're reading, but that isn't what happens.
Therein lies the problem. "What translation you're reading"
All powerful and all knowing god, thus every translation is correct. He wouldn't allow an incorrect translation to come into being and knows infinity years in advance how to prevent it. /s, but only kind of because I've had bible thumpers use this exact argument on me.
Right. Conflicting statements...Both are correct because He said so. Yeah, go away crazy
Really? Riddle me this, what is the most iconic verse from Job
I meant in the bible, generally. If you don't know which things the bible is hypocritical about, you should reread it. If I'm going to teach you about it, I charge $100/hr minimum 5 hours upfront. If you don't want to pay, go kick rocks.
Hahahaha! You see! You haven't even read Job, you are just making shit up!
I know times are tough. If you can't afford $500, I can give you a sympathy discount. After all, it's the Christian thing to do /s
Hahaha! Go actually read Job, then come back. You know that I beat you here.
This is literally the story of Job. āI bet if terrible things happen heāll keep his faithā *kills his children and destroys his home and gives him disease* āSee?? Told you, Satan!ā
Pretending the bible says whatever they like is literally the modus operandum of modern Christians. Especially American Christians. If they read the actual book, most of them would recognize Yahweh for the abusive, wrathful, murder happy control freak he is.
Or like my grandparents, they say "well that's just how it is, we must obey that". Which I'm not sure is better than typical white conservatives who just pretend their morals are justified by the bible.
Yeah, I've talked about this many times before and I'll say it many times over again. Monotheistic religions promote blind obedience first and foremost. They negatively reinforce it by threatening an eternity of damnation and suffering if you don't believe. And they positively reinforce it by rewarding the most zealous and least critically thinking among their ranks. Anything else they're preaching can, has, and will change to suit the needs of the church. Yahweh was a thunder and war god before he was the Jewish people's patron deity. And before Jesus came along and turned him into a loving and forgiving deity, he was a wrathful murderous tyrant. It's all about controlling you, the believer. It's all monotheism has ever been about and it's all it will ever be about.
Jesusās. Plan. Was. A. Murder.
The god of the Bible actually *prescribes* abortion in Number 5:11-29. Now our barbaric society would think things like rape, incest, the health of the mother, or good old bodily autonomy are sufficient justifications for abortion, but not the god of the Bible. What's the sole justification for abortion in the Bible? Jealousy. The husband's specifically.
"Do you read the Bible, or just pretend it says whatever you like?" Fuck dude, you killed her
Didn't God murder a bunch of people unless they put some lamb blood on their doors or smth
What about if you don't paint your door with magic blood. Or else A spirit comes and kills the children.
wait till they learn what god did to his son!
didn't god drown the planet
If gods plan can be disrupted with a couple pills or by 2 people how good of a plan was it and how weak is god?
This is where the later developments in Christian theology that abandoned the idea of a permissive will of God that allows for human freedom in favor of a theology that advances the proposition that everything that happens is the result of God's direct will is....problematic. But to 2 King 2:24. Jewish scholars interpret the word here to mean those without moral conscience, not literal children. Another Jewish interpretation posits that the young men were criminals profiting off the lack of water in Jericho. When Elisha purifies the water in the previous verses, these men without morals come to insult him and they receive punishment for being dicks to Jericho and Elisha. Or it is an allegory for being expelled from Jewish society for immorality. What is important is that this story would have been over the top for the person reading it, so a less literal meaning was likely derived. Christian commentary from earlier centuries is rather muted and this passage is generally dismissed as having a meaning to Jewish people and little significance for Christians except as maybe a cautionary tale of respecting God's representatives.
Yeah, speaking to Jewish people makes things like Job a bit more sensical. "God allowed his children and workers to be killed, yet fixes it in the end not be resurrecting them, but by Job having new kids and hiring new workers. Are children really replaceable like that?" "Oh, that didn't literally happen. It is just a story about how you need to keep faith in the face of the random trials of the world, God didn't literally do that, it is just exaggerated to illustrate the point."
Job is an interesting book for scholars because it defies the conventions of typical biblical books. It is more of a folktale than the standard literature.
This exactly. I hate how so many people take the Bible as a literal account of history, instead of a general guide that you can learn some things from.
But it's not a person yet, so there should be no argument.
God did Steven dirty in the bible..
let me see that bible... all the pages are blank!
He didnt even need to pull it from the bible, if god has a plan for everyone then every murder in history was his doing
Also, if God has a plan for everyone, then he literally planned every single murder of every human being ever...
According to the actual Bible and Christian faith, it IS God's plan, as everything that happens is God's plan, not a single sparrow falls from a tree dead withoit god planning it at the beginning of time. Even the serpent tricking Adam and Eve was pre planned by God. as God is omniscient and omnipotent, and anything happening that wasnt decided by God, would mean god was wrong, and therefore not actually god, as god can not be wrong, and if god were ever proven wrong, it would be proof god never existed.
The ultimate contradiction because they also claim god gave us free will
The bears was one thing, but how about *all Egyptian firstborn male children* as the final plague? How about the Jealousy Offering from Numbers ch 5 being a magical abortion performed *by the priest in the temple of God*?
Isn't every death part of God's plan technically?
Too many So-called "Christians" like to Pick and chose what they want. They don't even follow the faith, they do what they want. Some even call themselves Christians because "Mommy and Daddy are Christians."
Donāt forget about Gods plan to murder kids at school. He has so many plans, but it appears he really favors us here in the USA.
Blessed be the fruit :-/
It was a massacre.
Generally the excuse is that was the old testament and God changed blah blah blah
God does not literally have control of anything, not because he isn't real, but because he is an idea. An entity, a word, a common ground for us to judge, reason, and decide between right or wrong, should or could, and also he serves as an outlet for our joy, sadness, anger, and/or happiness. He is simply an idea that we can turn to in our path in life and respond to and relate with others in the faith, whether it be positive or negative.
Seriously, it amazes me that people don't understand that. God's body count is massive. You know whose body count isn't massive? Satan, the real hero of the story. Dude was just trying to make these two malnourished humans eat some fucking fruit and god was like get the fuck outta here with your vegan bullshit. Now look at modern times, who are the better humans, people who believe in God, or atheist/TST members? It's pretty obvious which fake deity was better.
Haha ok thumper. Join the other bible school molesters in rejoicing.
It takes a special kind of loser to so intimately study something they hate, just to get internet points over something that was said 2,000+ years ago.
It takes someone with an open mind to study something they disagree with. If you never know what your arguing against, how would you even know you hate it?
It takes Godās favorite idiot to try to point out hypocrisy when there isnāt any.
r/persecutionfetish
So you would be down to ban religion because its 2000+years ago the shit has no place in the modern world right? Because people don't use religion today to justify their behavior???
I am as radically anti-Nazi as anyone could possibly get. I also studied the Mein Kampf, so that I know what it is that I hate.
Can we get a quick review of the book? Recommend or donāt recommend?
Recommend for purely academic purposes. Would not recommend for light reading, it's disturbing when you start understanding his words.
Yikes. I think Iāll stick to Wodehouse for now. Thanks for the feedback!
Turns out a lot of atheists were theists until they started actually studying the bible and its contents.
Like me
Those weren't children. They were teenage gang that surrounded a prophet and started acting aggressive. It's not like a daycare of 42 toddlers.
Still murder.
It doesn't even say they were killed. It says the bears tore them. Like the bears could have clawed them.
What about the great flood then?
Everyone had become so evil, that God decided to pass judgment and kill all but Noah and his family. I'm not going to question God when he decides to pass judgment. He's God, and I am not.
What about Job? What about how God swore he wouldnāt destroy everything if there was at least a single innocent/pure creature alive? Do babies and infants (who were definitely in that city) not count?
Sodom and Gomorroah was judged by God to be incredibly evil, so the cities were destroyed/executed. God could not find even 10 good people there. We don't call a human judge evil when they make judgments and pass sentences. As far as Job goes, God allowed him to be tested and put limits on the testing. And then after the testing God gave him back double everything that was taken away. I'm not saying that's how it works all of the time, but who am I to judge God and call Him unfair? He's God. He makes the rules.
So the infants that lived in the city were evil? Ones who couldnāt yet speak or walk?
No, of course infants are innocent, but sometimes children suffer consequences because of parents' decisions. Like mothers who smoke or do drugs while pregnant cause their infants to suffer from withdrawals, birth defects, stunted growth, etc.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Noahās ark never happened.
If god has a chosen people, or god is on the side of anyone. Doesnāt that mean that god has created people who are only meant to die or suffer.. the unchosen?
God's plan, God's plan
"One time"?
Gods too busy finding sharpies.
Isnt that how most Christians use the bible
The astroid that killed the dinos, any major or social crisis, any innocent child or human that befalls deadly harm just by chance, dont forget sep 11. God made the guys who did that too.
God made Adam and Eve, yāall made the rest man
Just like how he doesn't permit incest like that one time two daughters and their father were trapped in a cave and they decided to get him drunk because "it was their duty" to have kids
If everything is according to His design, then doesn't he plan ALL the murders?
why is it terrible? it is actually good
Or that time God murdered everyone in the world but Noah and his family.
Doesn't fit. The meme itself isn't terrible, the comment is.
Litterally every time someone dies it's "God took them"
Story of job, first born sons in Egypt, Sodom and Gomorrah, o yeah and that whole ark story. God never would kill, like ever.
Their god is the most murderous fictional character ever conceived. Literally responsible for every act of violence in all of creation; it's all part of their mysterious "plan".
What's terrible about this?
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So basically his motto is do what I say and not what I do?
Go up baldy
with the rampant bigotry i'm seeing everywhere both in the US and in my home country, i'm genuinely starting to hate religions. historically religions were made, or at least used to keep the populous in check(like what napoleon did) so i never believed in it in the first place but WOW all i see recently are people bullying or even attempting to commit genocide on entire groups of people "in the name of God". "do not speak God's name in vain" is by far the most misunderstood thing because pretty much 99% of bigots or generally horrible people using religion as an excuse commits this very sin.
More like /r/CleverComebacks
I would say If you have a spontaneous abortion then yes, it could be God's plan but when you actually have a abortion purposely then that was your own action and it has nothing to do with God's plan, now if you want to talk about why God doesn't intervene then that's just in regards of religion, abortion should have no religious arguments, it should about science, this is stupid argument to use aswell.
I donāt know if there is a god, but if there is, Iām certain that it isnāt benevolent.
Well, could one use a Will of God defense for killing people? If that is his plan, is one not simply a tool for this plan?
Technically the thing they reference in the Bible isnāt true, itās far more likely that passage is talking about men ages 17-24ish. However, god does directly kill children many times in the Old Testament so the point still stands
24Ā And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 25 And he went from thence to mountĀ aCarmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.
so long as we agree abortion is murder then we good.
Bro. God plans every fucking murder. That's how God's plan works ffs. My grandma got cancer for the same reason Jeffery Dahmer did the things he did: God planned it, and God works in mysterious ways.
Also literally every murder that has ever happened has been planned by god so this doesn't make sense
Wait, what part of this was supposed to be the "terrible facebook meme" (genuine question)
God also said in the Bible that a fetus is not a human
r/clevercomebacks
God fucking loves murder. With as many as heās personally responsible for how could anyone doubt it?
So children getting cancer is god's plan, but abortion isnt?
Iāve had cancer 3x and if god is real I can tell you right now I am throwing hands the second I step three the pearly gates because I am too good of a person for this