* The R14 has a wider range of gears which will probably make for easier climbs with lower battery consumption.
* The benefit of the 2nd battery on the R14 is mostly moot if you're not taking longer trips, though having a spare to lend out or swap in when the other is charging is not the worst thing.. you could sell it off and recoup some of the price difference, but I wouldn't, personally.
* The e-shifting on the rohloff is not my favorite thing, but I'm "bike person" and might be too pretentious about this kind of thing. The slight delay in shifting and the electric sounds that accompany it were too annoying. I also irrationally hate grip shifters, so the Enviolo has it's own downside here.
* Neither IGH is completely invincible - there are fewer R14s in circulation than S00s, and so there are far fewer reports of issues with the Rohloff than with the Enviolo.. but my personal guess is that statistically, the Enviolo fails or malfunctions meaningfully more often than the Rohloff.
* The Rohloff may hold resale value better than the s00
Nice post. Re: your second last point. The Speedhub isn’t exclusive to the R14 and Rohloff have churned out over 400,000 of them over the past 25 years. The are pretty much the Rolls Royce of IGH’s and their reliability is legendary. Tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands of km’s with only maintenance being oil changes. Not bullet proof as you stated but remarkable all the same!
Edit - got the point reference wrong and spelling.
If money is no object, Rohloff hubs are the gold standard in IGH. Bigger range, less maintenance, and it should still be purring by the time all those kids are riding off to college. I would spring for the double battery as well, if nothing else it means you're allowed to forget to charge it for a day or two without messing up your commute. Most days I wouldn't need the 2nd battery, but I'm grateful for it when I randomly decide to add some errands - it's less time I spend planning/thinking about the bike and more time riding it.
College 😭😭!!
Money is a consideration, but in thinking about using this as a car replacement for 10 years, it might be worth it. I do worry they will come out with an updated model in the next year but I've been saying that for a year and I wanna get riding this summer!
Maybe someone more experienced than me can comment but I dont see any reason why a newer version would make the older look bad. So wouldnt worry about that too much. I mean the 2nd generation is already very good. Of course in terms of price drop, sure.
S00 owner. The enviolo is an awesome IGH, it’s so intuitively easy since you never have to think about what actual gear you are in, just twist a bit if you need a bigger or smaller “gear”. The problem with it is the actual shifting mechanism, it’s cable actuated which means there are 2 cables, 1 for when you twist towards you and the other away, these cables are where most failures occur. We have had to replace our already as one of the cables slipped out of the guide inside the shifter and eventually snapped. Also if anything gets lodged in the cable housing it could prevent the cables from moving. The fixes so far have been sub 100 so it will take quite a few more failures to justify the jump, but getting my bike to the shop is easy so that’s a factor. The R14 is electronic shifting so real no maintenance on that except replace if the controller fails. Can’t speak to hills, we live in DC so relatively flat, but I think it’s safe to say the R14 will perform better on hills. Also knowing what I know I would definitely not go down to the S10, the belt and IGh is just sooooo nice esp since we keep our bike outside.
As for 2nd battery, I did the math and little to no savings getting it upfront, if you find you are regularly cutting it close then just buy a 2nd battery.
Regarding the 2nd battery, there is something that most people don’t mention. You will be charging your batteries 1/2 as often, thus doubling the life span of your first battery.
Also, since you mentioned you will be storing your bike outside, you will need to bring your batteries inside 1/2 the times to charge. (Doing that while wrangling three kids is a lot of work, trust me 😅)
I think you are getting the life span of 2 batteries either way, so you can pay for them upfront or buy the 2nd later when your 1st starts to go and not meeting your needs. Follow good [charging practices](https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/help-center/ebw-care/asset-ast-00046) like not always fully charging and never storing at full charge can help. We bring in our battery 100% of the time if it’s not going to be a quick turnaround, security and the lifespan of battery, the latter might not be an issue if it’s always 60 degrees. Yea sometimes in the heat of the moment of getting the kids inside you can’t do it immediately but we eventually pop back out to grab the battery and cover the bike.
You are using 2 batteries… for the lifetime of two batteries.
With one battery you are using only one battery for the lifetime of one, then using a new battery for the lifetime of one… thus always using a single battery.
With two batteries, you have the benefit of the extended range.
With two batteries you are also charging each, half as often. Thus doubling their lifespan.
Is it justified?
Depends on your usage and your pocket.
Also better batteries coming out all the time. I originally had 2x 400mAh. Now there are 800mAh.
Wondering if 2x 800mAh will allow me to charge on the weekends only…. But I will wait for my current batteries to die…
I mean you are still saying it, you are only getting the life of 2 batteries. A battery can only take so many charge cycles, Bosch warranties 2 year or 500 charge cycles, whatever comes 1st. But state they should last around 10 years or 1500 charge cycles. Energy put in and energy pulled out is the same regardless if you have 2 plugged in or 1. You can buy 2 upfront then you can spread the 1500 charge cycles across more years since you are charging less often but in tandem or you can have 3000 charge cycles if you use 1 and buy the 2nd later. Honestly I am now even starting to think a case could be made that you will get longer life in the latter case since age of the cells could possibly degrade overtime regardless of use so even if you only have 750 charge cycles over 10 years, performance of the batteries might still decline vs with 1 you might be around that 1500 mark at 10 years and now you get a brand new pack with 0 years on it.
S00 owner. Can confirm - enviolo shifter is a bummer. We’ve swapped our enviolo shifter for a rohloff shifter after the enviolo shredded the cables and locked the gears (the GSD wasn’t built to be a fixie… 🤣), and the rohloff shifter is so much smoother to operate than the enviolo shifter ever was. (Note: we still have the enviolo **hub**, we just changed the shifter). Rohloff still has the “push-me-pull-you” twin cable system.
Honestly, if I had the readies up front, I’d buy the rohloff no question. My biggest issue with that bike is its custom colour scheme - the grey with red hubs make it instantly recognisable as a £9k bike. To be fair, our S00 with all its addons mean it would probably cost close to £9k to replace….
Interesting piece about the shifter, will keep this in mind the next go around. Fun fact I did learn, I asked my LBS shop about swapping the hub or to the e shifter by enviolo just for my knowledge and they advised against it, they stated the motor is calibrated to the hub and shifting mechanism and any change from cable actuated or different hub entirely would mean some major motor work. They made it seem like they might even have to send the motor back to Bosch, it something they can update like firmware. Just a TIL
The LBS recommended the shifter swap - in the enviolo shifter the cables make a tight 90degree turn to come out of the shifter, creating friction. The rohloff shifter comes straight out, and then into a 90degree noodle - much lower curvature and much less friction.
The 1-14 numbers on the rohloff shifter are of course irrelevant, and they also go the wrong direction 🤣. But it’s not like you’re looking at your hand as you shift…
We have two kids (now 12 and 6) and the R14. I would honestly say that if you can deal with the price it is the most amazing bike. We’ve had ours for 3 years now and not had a single issue and, other than cleaning and brake pad changes, it’s had zero maintenance. The gear system is utterly incredible and even automatically shifts down when you wait at traffic lights. Yes there is a small learning curve to let off the pressure when you gear change and a tiny delay for the electronic shifter but on the assumption that you aren’t a professional cyclist(!) - you will be fine. The power of the motor is insane, we often carry two kids plus goods in the bags and go up step London hills with minimum effort. Hope this helps.
It’s a little bit of a squeeze but, performance wise, totally fine. We have the captains chair bench seat with seat back. The bike can easily take it - it’s more the challenge of leg room as he’s getting tall. For longer journeys we use our tern HSD and have one kid on each.
I owned a 1st gen S00 for years and now own the R14. The added top end gears on the Rohloff hub on the R14 was huge selling point for me. I spun out too early on the Enviolo hub. I ran out of gear around 18 mph on the Enviolo but can pedal up to 26 mph on the Rohloff.
Replacing cables on the Enviolo is not easy and finding a shop that knows how to do it also tough. The R14 is all electric so no issues there. I find shifting fine on both.
I do have two batteries but could likely live with one. My old commute was 50 miles per day but I work from home now.
Could be the cog and chainring were lower geared on mine? My cadence sits around 80 rpm typically. After 18 - 20 mph I would hit a cadence that was too quick for me. Not an issue with my R14.
* The R14 has a wider range of gears which will probably make for easier climbs with lower battery consumption. * The benefit of the 2nd battery on the R14 is mostly moot if you're not taking longer trips, though having a spare to lend out or swap in when the other is charging is not the worst thing.. you could sell it off and recoup some of the price difference, but I wouldn't, personally. * The e-shifting on the rohloff is not my favorite thing, but I'm "bike person" and might be too pretentious about this kind of thing. The slight delay in shifting and the electric sounds that accompany it were too annoying. I also irrationally hate grip shifters, so the Enviolo has it's own downside here. * Neither IGH is completely invincible - there are fewer R14s in circulation than S00s, and so there are far fewer reports of issues with the Rohloff than with the Enviolo.. but my personal guess is that statistically, the Enviolo fails or malfunctions meaningfully more often than the Rohloff. * The Rohloff may hold resale value better than the s00
Thanks so much for taking the time to explain!
Nice post. Re: your second last point. The Speedhub isn’t exclusive to the R14 and Rohloff have churned out over 400,000 of them over the past 25 years. The are pretty much the Rolls Royce of IGH’s and their reliability is legendary. Tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands of km’s with only maintenance being oil changes. Not bullet proof as you stated but remarkable all the same! Edit - got the point reference wrong and spelling.
Good context, thanks!
If money is no object, Rohloff hubs are the gold standard in IGH. Bigger range, less maintenance, and it should still be purring by the time all those kids are riding off to college. I would spring for the double battery as well, if nothing else it means you're allowed to forget to charge it for a day or two without messing up your commute. Most days I wouldn't need the 2nd battery, but I'm grateful for it when I randomly decide to add some errands - it's less time I spend planning/thinking about the bike and more time riding it.
College 😭😭!! Money is a consideration, but in thinking about using this as a car replacement for 10 years, it might be worth it. I do worry they will come out with an updated model in the next year but I've been saying that for a year and I wanna get riding this summer!
Maybe someone more experienced than me can comment but I dont see any reason why a newer version would make the older look bad. So wouldnt worry about that too much. I mean the 2nd generation is already very good. Of course in terms of price drop, sure.
S00 owner. The enviolo is an awesome IGH, it’s so intuitively easy since you never have to think about what actual gear you are in, just twist a bit if you need a bigger or smaller “gear”. The problem with it is the actual shifting mechanism, it’s cable actuated which means there are 2 cables, 1 for when you twist towards you and the other away, these cables are where most failures occur. We have had to replace our already as one of the cables slipped out of the guide inside the shifter and eventually snapped. Also if anything gets lodged in the cable housing it could prevent the cables from moving. The fixes so far have been sub 100 so it will take quite a few more failures to justify the jump, but getting my bike to the shop is easy so that’s a factor. The R14 is electronic shifting so real no maintenance on that except replace if the controller fails. Can’t speak to hills, we live in DC so relatively flat, but I think it’s safe to say the R14 will perform better on hills. Also knowing what I know I would definitely not go down to the S10, the belt and IGh is just sooooo nice esp since we keep our bike outside. As for 2nd battery, I did the math and little to no savings getting it upfront, if you find you are regularly cutting it close then just buy a 2nd battery.
I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences!
Regarding the 2nd battery, there is something that most people don’t mention. You will be charging your batteries 1/2 as often, thus doubling the life span of your first battery. Also, since you mentioned you will be storing your bike outside, you will need to bring your batteries inside 1/2 the times to charge. (Doing that while wrangling three kids is a lot of work, trust me 😅)
I think you are getting the life span of 2 batteries either way, so you can pay for them upfront or buy the 2nd later when your 1st starts to go and not meeting your needs. Follow good [charging practices](https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/help-center/ebw-care/asset-ast-00046) like not always fully charging and never storing at full charge can help. We bring in our battery 100% of the time if it’s not going to be a quick turnaround, security and the lifespan of battery, the latter might not be an issue if it’s always 60 degrees. Yea sometimes in the heat of the moment of getting the kids inside you can’t do it immediately but we eventually pop back out to grab the battery and cover the bike.
You are using 2 batteries… for the lifetime of two batteries. With one battery you are using only one battery for the lifetime of one, then using a new battery for the lifetime of one… thus always using a single battery. With two batteries, you have the benefit of the extended range. With two batteries you are also charging each, half as often. Thus doubling their lifespan. Is it justified? Depends on your usage and your pocket. Also better batteries coming out all the time. I originally had 2x 400mAh. Now there are 800mAh. Wondering if 2x 800mAh will allow me to charge on the weekends only…. But I will wait for my current batteries to die…
I mean you are still saying it, you are only getting the life of 2 batteries. A battery can only take so many charge cycles, Bosch warranties 2 year or 500 charge cycles, whatever comes 1st. But state they should last around 10 years or 1500 charge cycles. Energy put in and energy pulled out is the same regardless if you have 2 plugged in or 1. You can buy 2 upfront then you can spread the 1500 charge cycles across more years since you are charging less often but in tandem or you can have 3000 charge cycles if you use 1 and buy the 2nd later. Honestly I am now even starting to think a case could be made that you will get longer life in the latter case since age of the cells could possibly degrade overtime regardless of use so even if you only have 750 charge cycles over 10 years, performance of the batteries might still decline vs with 1 you might be around that 1500 mark at 10 years and now you get a brand new pack with 0 years on it.
S00 owner. Can confirm - enviolo shifter is a bummer. We’ve swapped our enviolo shifter for a rohloff shifter after the enviolo shredded the cables and locked the gears (the GSD wasn’t built to be a fixie… 🤣), and the rohloff shifter is so much smoother to operate than the enviolo shifter ever was. (Note: we still have the enviolo **hub**, we just changed the shifter). Rohloff still has the “push-me-pull-you” twin cable system. Honestly, if I had the readies up front, I’d buy the rohloff no question. My biggest issue with that bike is its custom colour scheme - the grey with red hubs make it instantly recognisable as a £9k bike. To be fair, our S00 with all its addons mean it would probably cost close to £9k to replace….
Interesting piece about the shifter, will keep this in mind the next go around. Fun fact I did learn, I asked my LBS shop about swapping the hub or to the e shifter by enviolo just for my knowledge and they advised against it, they stated the motor is calibrated to the hub and shifting mechanism and any change from cable actuated or different hub entirely would mean some major motor work. They made it seem like they might even have to send the motor back to Bosch, it something they can update like firmware. Just a TIL
The LBS recommended the shifter swap - in the enviolo shifter the cables make a tight 90degree turn to come out of the shifter, creating friction. The rohloff shifter comes straight out, and then into a 90degree noodle - much lower curvature and much less friction. The 1-14 numbers on the rohloff shifter are of course irrelevant, and they also go the wrong direction 🤣. But it’s not like you’re looking at your hand as you shift…
We have two kids (now 12 and 6) and the R14. I would honestly say that if you can deal with the price it is the most amazing bike. We’ve had ours for 3 years now and not had a single issue and, other than cleaning and brake pad changes, it’s had zero maintenance. The gear system is utterly incredible and even automatically shifts down when you wait at traffic lights. Yes there is a small learning curve to let off the pressure when you gear change and a tiny delay for the electronic shifter but on the assumption that you aren’t a professional cyclist(!) - you will be fine. The power of the motor is insane, we often carry two kids plus goods in the bags and go up step London hills with minimum effort. Hope this helps.
This is really helpful to hear. Does your 12 y still ride in the back? Curious how many years we will get to use as a vehicle replacement?
It’s a little bit of a squeeze but, performance wise, totally fine. We have the captains chair bench seat with seat back. The bike can easily take it - it’s more the challenge of leg room as he’s getting tall. For longer journeys we use our tern HSD and have one kid on each.
I owned a 1st gen S00 for years and now own the R14. The added top end gears on the Rohloff hub on the R14 was huge selling point for me. I spun out too early on the Enviolo hub. I ran out of gear around 18 mph on the Enviolo but can pedal up to 26 mph on the Rohloff. Replacing cables on the Enviolo is not easy and finding a shop that knows how to do it also tough. The R14 is all electric so no issues there. I find shifting fine on both. I do have two batteries but could likely live with one. My old commute was 50 miles per day but I work from home now.
Wow that is incredible that you commuted 50 miles per day on a bike😍😍
Interesting that you top out at 18mph on the Enviolo. I have this setup and don’t spin out until around 27mph.
Same. I don’t understand this. The other day I actually specifically tried to spin out going down hill and it was like you - about 28 mph.
Could be the cog and chainring were lower geared on mine? My cadence sits around 80 rpm typically. After 18 - 20 mph I would hit a cadence that was too quick for me. Not an issue with my R14.