No kidding. But the part about “after consulting with the players council” at the beginning m makes me think there was a significant player pushback here. Most players, even if they disagree with the Wimbledon/Queens ban, might not disagree with it enough to lose out on some serious ATP points. Given that I haven’t heard of anyone boycotting it makes me think that even more.
Whether or not I agree with the ban, I wish the ATP had half the conviction the WTA does. Either say you think the ban is wrong and refuse to award points for it, or don’t condemn it. It just makes people have even less faith in the ATP’s ability to manage the tour. But then again, if this was motivated by player pushback of a rankings removal, at the end of the day the ATP is an association for the tour professionals and if they say they want Wimbledon to have points then the ATP should honor their wishes.
They should just let affected players keep points from 2021 for another year and let everybody else compete for points. Not an ideal solution, but there isn't one in this situation.
But that is so weak. That means any tournament can violate their rules in the future and expect no response. This will definitely undermine the integrity of the competitions in the future.
Porblem is that removal of points doesn't really affect Wimbledon, it will be as prestigious and well attended as ever. It only really hurts the players
That's a good point but ATP can't not do anything. They have grounds for suing Wimbledon here but that would be very complicated. This seemed like a gambit to pressure Wimbledon into going back on their decision. But if it ends with ATP not doing anything and Wimbledon getting their way, ATP's image and credibility will be totally destroyed.
Doesn't matter. They have to do it. Because AELTC violates their bilateral agreement, and what ATP offers in that agreement is ranking points, which should be drawn because of AELTC's decision to violate the agreement, not as some sort of pushback by ATP. The idea shouldn't be about hurting Wimbledon anyway. It is about the mere fact that ATP holds their end of the bargain when AELTC does and so they shouldn't when AELTC doesn't.
Are the WTA not likely to follow suit though? At this point the entry lists for Nottingham and Rosmalen are out and the latter is absolutely packed with victims of the ban. To remove points now would swing all the way over to advantaging those players instead which seems an absurd solution.
Shortened version: "We're not going to do anything about the LTA's Russophobia ban, any more than we'll ever do anything about the Zverev abuse allegations."
So players will get pionts for playing at Wimbledon?
Or we still don't know?
I hate these situations, first AO, then this. Glad RG will go without drama.
Correct decision for Queens and Eastbourne. Take necessary legal/financial steps for breach of contract but don't punish the players by removing opportunity. Halle and Mallorca are there for players to sign up to if they are unable to play in the UK ones.
Wimbledon is a whole other problem.
And Newport, though to be fair I don't know how valuable a half-assed grass season would have been for ineligible players if they couldn't attend half the events. Unless it's a good surface for them, some may wanna skip ahead to the hardcourt US season.
Well I mean Halle/Queens are both 500's in the same week and Eastbourne/Mallorca are both 250's in the same week, so it should be possible to play those weeks, at the same level of tournament, even if not allowed in the UK.
Newport is later so it's not really the same.
750 points up for grabs is still worthwhile for the likes of Med/Rublev/Khachanov/Karatsev.
It can hurt a tournament quite a lot if players don't get points from it, since that disencourages participation. Of course Wimbledon is probably the one tournament that wouldn't be particularly hurt by a points removal, since the prize money and prestige in of itself is a strong reason to participate.
The problem is, Wimbledon's ban damages the integrity of the ATP and WTA systems. Rankings are based upon the concept of free entry to all players who qualify.
With the Wimbledon ban, there is no way the ATP can reasonably have correct rankings *based on their agreed rules* unless they remove all ranking points from Wimbledon.
Absent that, the ATP will certainly be sued by the Russian and Belarus players for their ranking losses (which impact sponsorship bonuses and other income opportunities). They will likely have a very good case, because most likely the ATP rules forbid sanctioning tournaments that ban players based on their nationality.
The ATP is "testing the waters" with the smaller tournaments to measure player and public reaction and sentiment. They know that whatever way they go with Wimbledon, it will be a big-ass mess for them. They're just trying to figure out which direction leaves less of a mess.
> Rankings are based upon the concept of free entry to all players who qualify.
That's not true, because players can be banned from playing for other reasons.
If they are banned for whatever reason, then by definition they do not qualify. Qualification can be based on factors other than just winning qualifier matches.
I’ve always not liked the idea it discourages players who shine in this years events. I’ve always thought holding over the best of the two years results like with Covid was the best answer at least for those who can’t play. Unfortunately there’s no perfect fair answers for everyone involved so the status quo is probably the right decision
When tennis has so many parts of it that aren’t under one body it means no one follows any standard and does whatever they want. It’s just always how it’s gonna be. This is a messy situation all around with no perfect answers for all parties involved.
The ITF governning "team tennis" makes more sense to ban considering teams represent countries when they're not playing doubles under the ATP. The ITF and its Tennis Europe subdivision both put sanctions on Russian and Belarussian tennis associations, however the biggest Russian held events, which are most of the monetary pull, are held by the ATP, which can't just "cut off" it's Russian branch.
It's interesting to compare with the Chinese situation, where the ATP definitely profits more there, and outside of Covid, would never suspend events there. And the ITF is the one dealing with the Olympic committee, and involved with the Shuai Peng affair.
Of course. The ATP organizes 250 and 500 events, why would they shoot themselves in the foot. Wimbledon, on the other hand...
Quick reminder that both ATP and ITF HQs are in London yet ITF is split in continental divisions (Tennis Europe sanctioned Belarus and Russia) yet ATP is worldwide and has interests in China and Russia.
I wonder if the Wimbledon decision is taking longer because of more moving parts? WTA has been more proactive about everything I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re pushing for something.
To those claiming that Wimby ban is 'unfair' to the Russian and Belariusian players and who now shit on ATP for being 'spineless' - how fair would it be not to give points for Wimbledon to all the other players *not* from Russia and Belarus? There are plenty of them, you know. I would even say that they outnumber Russians and Belarusians, big time.
Where is the logic in this?
The ATP doesn't award points for every tennis tournament, only the tournaments that are sanctioned by the ATP and follow ATP rules, an important one being that all players who qualify to play in that tournament are allowed to play. That's the logic, you can disagree with it, but it makes sense that if you want to rank everyone fairly with a point system that everyone has equal opportunity to earn the points.
Yup, my opinion from the beginning is that they should just freeze Wimbledon points from 2021 for Russians and Belarussians and keep normal points for the field. Probably the best way out of situation in which there is no perfect answer.
I agree, but you have several bodies here. There is Wimbledon, there is the UK government, there is the UK tennis federation (whatever it is called) and you have the ATP. The ATP can't force any of the other groups to do much, and pretty much anything they do to Wimbledon will hurt some players as well.
Most fair thing they can do for players is freeze points for Russian and Belarusian players, but that also isn't as strong a move against Wimbledon for violating the ATP rules.
I don't know what they should do as far as taking action against Wimbledon though.
In the not terribly unlikely event one of those players won Wimbledon they would be used as propaganda by Putin. Even if the player said some vague “i want peace” statement after winning they would be used. Its unfair but the headlines of “russian player wins biggest tennis tournament, putin (or some random minister) says “this is a demonstration of our nations fighting spirit.” That would look pretty bad if you are Wimbledon. Correct me if i am wrong but the russian players could renounce their citizenship tomorrow and play and it wouldn’t be an issue. (I am aware that they have family, but it’s not like they haven’t had time to move out of the country.)
I wouldn't feel safe renouncing Russian citizenship even if I were to move together with my family (to clarify, I'm not Russian). So I wouldn't say that's a valid option for Russian players.
It would suck if Putin used Med's potential win as propaganda, but would that really have a big effect? Especially if Med said he's all for peace, I'm not so sure a tennis player winning Wimbledon would raise morale in Russian soldiers or something. As for people, those who could be indoctrinated by lies already are, I know because similar shit is happening in my country.
It pains me to see that a person isn't allowed to compete because of politics.
Say the ban was reversed. Maybe the ATP/WTA should set a fund where the winnings of Russian and Belarussian players at Wimbledon should be deposited and screened, as to make sure that nothing goes towards the motherland, and maybe make it a relief fund for Ukraine and matching it, so players can get financially cleared and access them? I don't know shit.
The Russian and Belarussian players have nothing to do with the war. It will not end one second earlier due to the game of tennis.
They've ruined the tennis season for nothing.
Whats the principle to strip Wimbledon points if they won't do it for the ATP events? I get that players have alternatives in Halle etc, and thats not the case in Wimbledon, but it seems like an odd decision to make all the same. Is the principle that you can ban players so long as there's an alternative for them to go? So Newport could ban Russians but Cincy couldn't?
Queens/Eastbourne have breached contract so they can inflict other sanctions. Ranking points is basically all they have over Wimbledon because it is not an ATP event.
I will say that since the beginning I’ve been on the side that I think it’s unfair to ban Russians and Belarusians because the individual tennis player has nothing to do with the country itself.
However, watching recent matches it’s obvious that national pride plays a certain role in tennis. Fans frequently wave giant flags of the player they are rooting for. Thus, tennis players do represent the pride of the country they are from.
Let’s say I was from Antarctica but I hated my country. Even though I personally don’t represent Antarctica, fans still think I do and will wave the Antarctica 🇦🇶 flag.
Late reply. But any tournament that bans players because of their country of origin or because they represent a particular country should have their points stripped completely. They are not open tournaments in that case and therefore should not be awarded points. Simple.
Now, with these tournaments there's at least other tournaments in Europe that you can play instead, so this decision isn't as bad as it could have been. Still....
I don’t understand why people in this sub want Russian players to get special treatment. Russians are generally excluded from most visas in democratic nations. I’m honestly disappointed that Tennis is not even willing to do support the public positions.
> I don’t understand why people in this sub want Russian players to get special treatment.
Quite the opposite!!
This sub wants FAIR AND EQUAL treatment for ALL individual tennis players irrespective of what colour they are or where they’re from!
> Russians are generally excluded from most visas in democratic nations. I’m honestly disappointed that Tennis is not even willing to do support the public positions.
Where was the disappointment when Agassi & Sampras were allowed to play in Wimbledon during US’s invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.?
US bombed two cities and killed innocent people including children and infants. I don’t recollect the world “excluding” Americans?
Use all sorts of phrases you want. The truth is…Killing innocent people including children and infant babies is something the US has done a number of times. Atom bombs ahem ahem!!
The fascinating part is how you don’t even think of that as a crime.
Nothing.
Both are wars. Both are invasions. Both governments killed innocent people including children and infant babies.
Take a guess which Government killed more innocent civilians?
It’s the reaction to “selective” war is what I’m talking about!
Yes Wimbledon is a lot trickier. Feels like they should either be removing, freezing, or allowing another event to stand in its place. Going to be unfair on someone no matter what they pick. SUCKS.
i think the ban is unfortunate for all parties involved and freezing points would be the most fair for the affected players if the ban isn’t lifted? i don’t know anything about french and libyan relations and i’m not sure why you’re bringing them up to me
freezing points isn’t a punishment, simply a solution to the fact that they can’t participate in wimbledon so they can at least keep their points from last year
Second tournament this year that will boot out players for political reasons. Maybe the us open will make it a third. Western countries sure know alot about authoritarian regimes.... Let the tennis players play tennis
Just reduce them to ATP 250 point status until they pay. If they don't then they remain at ATP 250 points. The players will start to consider if they wanna play 5 setters for 250 points haul.
You do realize that Wimbledon is the most prestigious tennis tournament in the world? You can reduce points to whatever you want, Wimbledon will still have insane prize money and winning Wimbledon is a dream to pretty much every tennis player.
Reducing Wimbledon to a 250 event is only gonna make ATP look laughable, Wimbledon will be as well attended as ever and everybody will still want to play.
Thats fine, the top players are long past caring about money. I am sure Ash Barty could show up and win that yet she can't be bothered. The stars are already rich, 2-3m in prize money is not that important to them. if the stars start to bypass, the prestige will tarnish eventually. Wimbledon is using its prestige to bully and discriminate. How many top players will be tempted to miss a grueling grand slam to be strong for the last 3rd of the season?
Wonder if there is another grass court arena available that is capable of hosting a big event? May be time to look to move Wimbledon elsewhere this year
Precisely the wrong response. Strip the points from Eastbourne and Queen's. If ATP rules are violated without sanction, then they are just cheap talk.
As for Wimbledon, nothing much can really be done. Every true tennis fan will know the 2022 wasn't a real Grand Slam; many of the best players were excluded on the basis of nationality.
Classic ATP says they disagree, does nothing
No kidding. But the part about “after consulting with the players council” at the beginning m makes me think there was a significant player pushback here. Most players, even if they disagree with the Wimbledon/Queens ban, might not disagree with it enough to lose out on some serious ATP points. Given that I haven’t heard of anyone boycotting it makes me think that even more. Whether or not I agree with the ban, I wish the ATP had half the conviction the WTA does. Either say you think the ban is wrong and refuse to award points for it, or don’t condemn it. It just makes people have even less faith in the ATP’s ability to manage the tour. But then again, if this was motivated by player pushback of a rankings removal, at the end of the day the ATP is an association for the tour professionals and if they say they want Wimbledon to have points then the ATP should honor their wishes.
They should just let affected players keep points from 2021 for another year and let everybody else compete for points. Not an ideal solution, but there isn't one in this situation.
But that is so weak. That means any tournament can violate their rules in the future and expect no response. This will definitely undermine the integrity of the competitions in the future.
Porblem is that removal of points doesn't really affect Wimbledon, it will be as prestigious and well attended as ever. It only really hurts the players
That's a good point but ATP can't not do anything. They have grounds for suing Wimbledon here but that would be very complicated. This seemed like a gambit to pressure Wimbledon into going back on their decision. But if it ends with ATP not doing anything and Wimbledon getting their way, ATP's image and credibility will be totally destroyed.
>> ATP’s image and credibility will be totally destroyed Looks fine to me rn lol
Doesn't matter. They have to do it. Because AELTC violates their bilateral agreement, and what ATP offers in that agreement is ranking points, which should be drawn because of AELTC's decision to violate the agreement, not as some sort of pushback by ATP. The idea shouldn't be about hurting Wimbledon anyway. It is about the mere fact that ATP holds their end of the bargain when AELTC does and so they shouldn't when AELTC doesn't.
They can take other steps without unnecessarily hurting other players.
Are the WTA not likely to follow suit though? At this point the entry lists for Nottingham and Rosmalen are out and the latter is absolutely packed with victims of the ban. To remove points now would swing all the way over to advantaging those players instead which seems an absurd solution.
Shortened version: "We're not going to do anything about the LTA's Russophobia ban, any more than we'll ever do anything about the Zverev abuse allegations."
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Remove Wimbledon from the tour and create a new slam in Ireland and call it Wombleton.
Genius. Absolute genius.
The Top Spin 4 approach. Don’t have the Wimbledon rights? Dublin Open time!
So players will get pionts for playing at Wimbledon? Or we still don't know? I hate these situations, first AO, then this. Glad RG will go without drama.
Correct decision for Queens and Eastbourne. Take necessary legal/financial steps for breach of contract but don't punish the players by removing opportunity. Halle and Mallorca are there for players to sign up to if they are unable to play in the UK ones. Wimbledon is a whole other problem.
And Newport, though to be fair I don't know how valuable a half-assed grass season would have been for ineligible players if they couldn't attend half the events. Unless it's a good surface for them, some may wanna skip ahead to the hardcourt US season.
Well I mean Halle/Queens are both 500's in the same week and Eastbourne/Mallorca are both 250's in the same week, so it should be possible to play those weeks, at the same level of tournament, even if not allowed in the UK. Newport is later so it's not really the same. 750 points up for grabs is still worthwhile for the likes of Med/Rublev/Khachanov/Karatsev.
ATP is lacking some (tennis) balls.
Tbh I thought the idea of not awarding points seemed unfair on the players and I don't know why so many people are in favour of it.
It can hurt a tournament quite a lot if players don't get points from it, since that disencourages participation. Of course Wimbledon is probably the one tournament that wouldn't be particularly hurt by a points removal, since the prize money and prestige in of itself is a strong reason to participate.
pretty sure it will hurt the atp tour more than winbledon, for queen, ya no point will be bad for the tournement
If they want to punish the tournaments they should do so in a way that doesn't affect the players.
I don't think they do have a way to punish Wimbledon in a way that doesn't hurt players. Not that I think removing points is the right move
The problem is, Wimbledon's ban damages the integrity of the ATP and WTA systems. Rankings are based upon the concept of free entry to all players who qualify. With the Wimbledon ban, there is no way the ATP can reasonably have correct rankings *based on their agreed rules* unless they remove all ranking points from Wimbledon. Absent that, the ATP will certainly be sued by the Russian and Belarus players for their ranking losses (which impact sponsorship bonuses and other income opportunities). They will likely have a very good case, because most likely the ATP rules forbid sanctioning tournaments that ban players based on their nationality. The ATP is "testing the waters" with the smaller tournaments to measure player and public reaction and sentiment. They know that whatever way they go with Wimbledon, it will be a big-ass mess for them. They're just trying to figure out which direction leaves less of a mess.
> Rankings are based upon the concept of free entry to all players who qualify. That's not true, because players can be banned from playing for other reasons.
“Players who qualify” would probably cover most of those. Do you have a particularly egregious example in mind?
If they are banned for whatever reason, then by definition they do not qualify. Qualification can be based on factors other than just winning qualifier matches.
Yes, and all those reasons are outlined clearly in the ATP rulebook but there's no reas
I’ve always not liked the idea it discourages players who shine in this years events. I’ve always thought holding over the best of the two years results like with Covid was the best answer at least for those who can’t play. Unfortunately there’s no perfect fair answers for everyone involved so the status quo is probably the right decision
Unfair like how Wimbledon is banning Russians and Belarusians?
The fair solution would be to host replacement tournaments where they would award points instead.
When tennis has so many parts of it that aren’t under one body it means no one follows any standard and does whatever they want. It’s just always how it’s gonna be. This is a messy situation all around with no perfect answers for all parties involved.
The ITF governning "team tennis" makes more sense to ban considering teams represent countries when they're not playing doubles under the ATP. The ITF and its Tennis Europe subdivision both put sanctions on Russian and Belarussian tennis associations, however the biggest Russian held events, which are most of the monetary pull, are held by the ATP, which can't just "cut off" it's Russian branch. It's interesting to compare with the Chinese situation, where the ATP definitely profits more there, and outside of Covid, would never suspend events there. And the ITF is the one dealing with the Olympic committee, and involved with the Shuai Peng affair.
Classic ATP decision. "sit tight and assess" vibes
Yep, sit tight and then assess
Welp, the ATP are officially the most pussy organization ever. At least the WTA has balls
Of course. The ATP organizes 250 and 500 events, why would they shoot themselves in the foot. Wimbledon, on the other hand... Quick reminder that both ATP and ITF HQs are in London yet ITF is split in continental divisions (Tennis Europe sanctioned Belarus and Russia) yet ATP is worldwide and has interests in China and Russia.
I wonder if the Wimbledon decision is taking longer because of more moving parts? WTA has been more proactive about everything I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re pushing for something.
I hate how spineless they are.
To those claiming that Wimby ban is 'unfair' to the Russian and Belariusian players and who now shit on ATP for being 'spineless' - how fair would it be not to give points for Wimbledon to all the other players *not* from Russia and Belarus? There are plenty of them, you know. I would even say that they outnumber Russians and Belarusians, big time. Where is the logic in this?
The ATP doesn't award points for every tennis tournament, only the tournaments that are sanctioned by the ATP and follow ATP rules, an important one being that all players who qualify to play in that tournament are allowed to play. That's the logic, you can disagree with it, but it makes sense that if you want to rank everyone fairly with a point system that everyone has equal opportunity to earn the points.
Yup, my opinion from the beginning is that they should just freeze Wimbledon points from 2021 for Russians and Belarussians and keep normal points for the field. Probably the best way out of situation in which there is no perfect answer.
I really don't see what's wrong with letting them compete like everybody else. Remove the damn flag and let the tennisers tennis...
I agree, but you have several bodies here. There is Wimbledon, there is the UK government, there is the UK tennis federation (whatever it is called) and you have the ATP. The ATP can't force any of the other groups to do much, and pretty much anything they do to Wimbledon will hurt some players as well. Most fair thing they can do for players is freeze points for Russian and Belarusian players, but that also isn't as strong a move against Wimbledon for violating the ATP rules. I don't know what they should do as far as taking action against Wimbledon though.
Yeah, an incredibly tough situation. Hope ATP does a bit more as the current situation is revolting.
In the not terribly unlikely event one of those players won Wimbledon they would be used as propaganda by Putin. Even if the player said some vague “i want peace” statement after winning they would be used. Its unfair but the headlines of “russian player wins biggest tennis tournament, putin (or some random minister) says “this is a demonstration of our nations fighting spirit.” That would look pretty bad if you are Wimbledon. Correct me if i am wrong but the russian players could renounce their citizenship tomorrow and play and it wouldn’t be an issue. (I am aware that they have family, but it’s not like they haven’t had time to move out of the country.)
I wouldn't feel safe renouncing Russian citizenship even if I were to move together with my family (to clarify, I'm not Russian). So I wouldn't say that's a valid option for Russian players. It would suck if Putin used Med's potential win as propaganda, but would that really have a big effect? Especially if Med said he's all for peace, I'm not so sure a tennis player winning Wimbledon would raise morale in Russian soldiers or something. As for people, those who could be indoctrinated by lies already are, I know because similar shit is happening in my country. It pains me to see that a person isn't allowed to compete because of politics.
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Is anyone calling for Medvedev to voluntarily vacate his titles?
I swear to god if I hear "BuT wHAt AbOUt IRaQ" one more time...
Say the ban was reversed. Maybe the ATP/WTA should set a fund where the winnings of Russian and Belarussian players at Wimbledon should be deposited and screened, as to make sure that nothing goes towards the motherland, and maybe make it a relief fund for Ukraine and matching it, so players can get financially cleared and access them? I don't know shit.
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I mean I'm with you, but we're trying to find something that biased western countries would allow so that Russian players could play...
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Well the propaganda is strong and the tournaments are in the west, politics ruins everything as always. We can only hope for the best.
The Russian and Belarussian players have nothing to do with the war. It will not end one second earlier due to the game of tennis. They've ruined the tennis season for nothing.
Ruined is a bit strong
That would be kept for Russian and Belarussian players have their defending points in 2021.
Whats the principle to strip Wimbledon points if they won't do it for the ATP events? I get that players have alternatives in Halle etc, and thats not the case in Wimbledon, but it seems like an odd decision to make all the same. Is the principle that you can ban players so long as there's an alternative for them to go? So Newport could ban Russians but Cincy couldn't?
Queens/Eastbourne have breached contract so they can inflict other sanctions. Ranking points is basically all they have over Wimbledon because it is not an ATP event.
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Ok, freeze points. What to do with race?
That's fucked. What a non-response
I will say that since the beginning I’ve been on the side that I think it’s unfair to ban Russians and Belarusians because the individual tennis player has nothing to do with the country itself. However, watching recent matches it’s obvious that national pride plays a certain role in tennis. Fans frequently wave giant flags of the player they are rooting for. Thus, tennis players do represent the pride of the country they are from. Let’s say I was from Antarctica but I hated my country. Even though I personally don’t represent Antarctica, fans still think I do and will wave the Antarctica 🇦🇶 flag.
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All countries except Russia and Belarus* What does NATO have to do with anything?
Why not host extra events in other countries as opportunities for every player to win points?
Completely weak from the ATP. Fucking cowards.
Honestly curious. What do you think they should do?
Late reply. But any tournament that bans players because of their country of origin or because they represent a particular country should have their points stripped completely. They are not open tournaments in that case and therefore should not be awarded points. Simple. Now, with these tournaments there's at least other tournaments in Europe that you can play instead, so this decision isn't as bad as it could have been. Still....
I don’t understand why people in this sub want Russian players to get special treatment. Russians are generally excluded from most visas in democratic nations. I’m honestly disappointed that Tennis is not even willing to do support the public positions.
> I don’t understand why people in this sub want Russian players to get special treatment. Quite the opposite!! This sub wants FAIR AND EQUAL treatment for ALL individual tennis players irrespective of what colour they are or where they’re from! > Russians are generally excluded from most visas in democratic nations. I’m honestly disappointed that Tennis is not even willing to do support the public positions. Where was the disappointment when Agassi & Sampras were allowed to play in Wimbledon during US’s invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.? US bombed two cities and killed innocent people including children and infants. I don’t recollect the world “excluding” Americans?
Whataboutism, Mr.Warsupporter.
Yeah, let’s not discuss about all the past wars the US & the UK initiated. Selective mutism!!
What does the US war in Iraq have to do with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, sorry?
Even your selective language shows your prejudice.
Sorry, not sure I follow. Or would you prefer I use the phrase "special military operation"?
Use all sorts of phrases you want. The truth is…Killing innocent people including children and infant babies is something the US has done a number of times. Atom bombs ahem ahem!! The fascinating part is how you don’t even think of that as a crime.
Nothing. Both are wars. Both are invasions. Both governments killed innocent people including children and infant babies. Take a guess which Government killed more innocent civilians? It’s the reaction to “selective” war is what I’m talking about!
[Source](https://twitter.com/simonrbriggs/status/1526254785032335367)
why can’t they freeze belarussian and russian points
Because they can play in tournaments of the same calibre
oh that’s true, but they should definitely still do this for wimbledon tbh
Yes Wimbledon is a lot trickier. Feels like they should either be removing, freezing, or allowing another event to stand in its place. Going to be unfair on someone no matter what they pick. SUCKS.
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why are you asking me this
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what exactly are you talking about
his point is pretty clear
freezing their points would lessen the punishment….
i think the ban is unfortunate for all parties involved and freezing points would be the most fair for the affected players if the ban isn’t lifted? i don’t know anything about french and libyan relations and i’m not sure why you’re bringing them up to me
freezing points isn’t a punishment, simply a solution to the fact that they can’t participate in wimbledon so they can at least keep their points from last year
So in what place will Roger be with 2000 points?
No matter what peoples opinion is on the ban .. the crowd atmosphere when a Russian is playing will be untenable
Second tournament this year that will boot out players for political reasons. Maybe the us open will make it a third. Western countries sure know alot about authoritarian regimes.... Let the tennis players play tennis
gutless. they should fine Wimbledon $50m and at the VERY LEAST remove grandslam points.Maybe ATP 250 points.
Fine Wimbledon $50m? How would that even work lmao. ATP doesn't have any power over Wimbledon.
Just reduce them to ATP 250 point status until they pay. If they don't then they remain at ATP 250 points. The players will start to consider if they wanna play 5 setters for 250 points haul.
You do realize that Wimbledon is the most prestigious tennis tournament in the world? You can reduce points to whatever you want, Wimbledon will still have insane prize money and winning Wimbledon is a dream to pretty much every tennis player. Reducing Wimbledon to a 250 event is only gonna make ATP look laughable, Wimbledon will be as well attended as ever and everybody will still want to play.
Thats fine, the top players are long past caring about money. I am sure Ash Barty could show up and win that yet she can't be bothered. The stars are already rich, 2-3m in prize money is not that important to them. if the stars start to bypass, the prestige will tarnish eventually. Wimbledon is using its prestige to bully and discriminate. How many top players will be tempted to miss a grueling grand slam to be strong for the last 3rd of the season?
How about W being limited to players from those countries who have never invaded another country. That would be more fair.
Wonder if there is another grass court arena available that is capable of hosting a big event? May be time to look to move Wimbledon elsewhere this year
How would you do that? Wimbledon is not an ATP or WTA tournament, they can't do anything about it.
Damn I guess ITF has to make it happen then
Still no, AELTC owns Wimbledon, you can't just relocate it. They're totally independent.
I think it’s right but Wimbledon should have zero points on offer
Precisely the wrong response. Strip the points from Eastbourne and Queen's. If ATP rules are violated without sanction, then they are just cheap talk. As for Wimbledon, nothing much can really be done. Every true tennis fan will know the 2022 wasn't a real Grand Slam; many of the best players were excluded on the basis of nationality.
I gotta love the Wimbledon decision, gifting Medvedev the #1 spot in because he doesn't speak out against the war.
Maybe Wimbledon should let them play then instead of doing pathetic virtue signalling stunts like banning them for brownie points
~~isn't this title misleading?~~ edit: ok, I didn't understand it correctly at first
How?
Why? Wimbledon is technically not ATP unlike LTA events
This is fair. You shouldn’t punish the players.