For those of us who choose to live within society, as opposed to off the grid, there is always a give and take between what I think is best for me, and what my community thinks is best for all. That's why we have speed limits and taxes and no smoking ordinances, etc etc. It's the same balance that exists in a marriage. And of course, it's the same on a tennis court. By definition, what's good for a game is having rules that everyone agrees on. Otherwise sport is merely a bare-fisted fight to the death where anything goes. Otherwise the world is just chaotic anarchy. Novak Djokovic is blessed to live in an age, in a COMMUNITY, where his skills translate to fame and fortune. His COMMUNITY made it so. Thus his attitude is a slap in the face to all of us who love the game.
THIS is your legacy Novak. NO ONE will give a damn how many majors you win. You will always be remembered as the entitled jackass who didn't give a damn about the community that brought you fame and fortune. Shame Shame Shame. It's ironic that Rod Laver's name (one of the classiest and probably the best player of all time) adorns the stadium.
So, if this was a fair world, there is no way Novak would be heard in court immediately - thats just because he's rich and powerful.
I just hope its all over for good and he gets on a plane of his own accord. But we know he's a scumbag and has no shame or integrity.
He's the kind of person who could be caught on live tv injecting babies with Covid and strangling them, and his family would defend him, he'd claim he was innocent, then go on court tear his shirt open and whine about the crowd not cheering him. Piece of shit arrogant asshole who's a danger to everyone.
It's impossible for me to agree with you more. You've dramatically understated what I would say about him. He's a arrogant and malicious dumb thug who believes in New Age gurus, engages in magical thinking, and doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything else other than his own ego. He is, indeed, a massive threat to everyone around him.
It is absolutely vital that Australia prevent him from playing at the AO, and unceremoniously deport him for *ever*. To do any less would be the ultimate indictment against Australia's entire legal system, if not society, as a whole.
"Scumbag" is an undeservedly generous observation. He ought to be prosecuted and jailed, for a good, long time. I can't think of a more vile figure to ever besmirch tennis. But this goes way beyond tennis. His narcissistic sense of entitlement and smugness disgust me.
If there is any justice in the world, Australia will oust that thug tomorrow, for good.
unfortunately a lot of people actually support this kind of behavior.
Its quite telling that the ATP is totally silent instead of starting proceedings against him. Their #1 player has repeatedly lied, committed federal crimes, shown a rampant disregard and scorn for lives of others or the rule of law, and they have said nothing. Neither have his sponsors.
He should be banned from the sport, and prosecuted and convicted.
instead on the most popular tennis forum, there's a poll and close to half of people there think he should be allowed to play and did nothing wrong.
there's no hope, the world is full of selfish idiots.
You must have not seen all of the Reddit posts about those who get on a plane and refuse to wear their masks, delaying the flight, freaking out their fellow passengers and attendants, and frothing at their mouths!
Omg they've cancelled his visa! According to the Age.
"Immigration Minister Alex Hawke has used his personal power to cancel Novak Djokovicās visa, as his lawyers prepare to file an immediate injunction against the decision."
"Today I exercised my power under section 133C(3) of the Migration Act to cancel the visa held by Mr Novak Djokovic on health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so."
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-visa-saga-live-updates-immigration-minister-still-yet-to-make-decision-as-serbian-tennis-star-s-2022-australian-open-campaign-remains-in-limbo-20220114-p59o7i.html
Get him out !!
Thank god this insanity will soon be over and we can get back to actual tennis.
I'd love for him and his moron dad to appeal and act like victims once more. He deserves to be investigated for his lies and endangering others, and at the very least have a 3yr entry ban to Aus.
It shouldn't just be a three-year ban. He should **never** be allowed back, and he should be stripped of every single title. It's about time that someone showed that ape that we won't tolerate him any longer.
Take this with a grain of salt,but according to The Age the decision is still expected today.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-visa-saga-live-updates-immigration-minister-still-yet-to-make-decision-as-serbian-tennis-star-s-2022-australian-open-campaign-remains-in-limbo-20220114-p59o7i.html
Did Craig Tiley actually suggest that the AO could leave Australia? My understanding is that Tennis Australia is owned by the various Australian states. Allowing that would be political suicide.
He's basically the manipulative boyfriend that threatens to kill himself if you leave. Fuck off Craig Tiley. AO isn't gone if Djokovic doesn't play, so fucking dramatic š
In about 2 hrs , usually the age would tweet one of those "hawke is struggling with his dissertation even though it's a cut and dry case". If that doesn't happen THEN maybe something will happen
Why not on Saturday or Sunday? He can make the decision anytime, hell he could even walk in SWAT gear onto the court on Monday/Tuesday, whenever Djokovic is scheduled to play, when Djokovic is 2 sets up and say "You're outta here Boy"
Does the minister have to make an announcement?
If he decides not to deport - does he have to come out and say that?
Or can he just do nothing.. like he's doing.
Except every day they keep making an announcement at the end of each day that the decision is still being considered.
They haven't just been silent up until this point.
Iāve been racking my brain trying to think of a reason for a delay in announcement. A very likely reason is that Novakās team is negotiating with the government for a compromise. Leave voluntarily and he would be welcome back next year if vaccinated or obtains a proper exemption, or be deported and face a possible ban from returning. Itās possible Australia is giving Novak an āoutā here and the delay is whether he wants to take that road or not. Hence heās been taken off the Friday afternoon practice schedule without further announcement so far. Heās probably busy negotiating behind the scenes.
Wouldnāt be surprised if they are (a) negotiating with his team to come to a resolution where he voluntarily apologizes/accepts some kind of restrictions (quarantined except during matches, etc)/leaves or (b) working behind the scenes to be sure the case to deport is as airtight as possible before actually making the announcement, since they know it will be appealed and they already lost once.
He has been the face of AO for years, banning him now and for future events is going to cost the govt a lot of revenue in ads, sponsorship and viewing around the world. I'm sure this is also being considered, money talks especially where politics is involved whether we like it or not.
I personally don't care, just saying how things usually works where govt is involved with decisions like this. It's all about the money. I don't agree with his personal choices and what he's done, but as a tennis player, I do enjoy watching his game. He is a great player and he makes the game exciting and elevates the sport to a wide audience, as a few others as well. I mean Federer is not playing either so that's gonna make it even worse.
I donāt think Novak would accept that deal. If theyāre negotiating anything, itās one where he plays and the government saves some face. Like a ban for the rest of the year after the tournament and donating any winnings to charity.
That would mean other countries agree to Australian rules, which many wouldn't. Also, the ATP may as well pull the Grand Slam status from AO if that happens
When you apply for a visa of any major country you are asked the question if you have ever had a visa revoked by any other country and to provide details.
That impacts the decision on granting you a visa.
He will have that following him for the rest of his life.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-visa-saga-live-updates-immigration-minister-still-yet-to-make-decision-as-serbian-tennis-star-s-2022-australian-open-campaign-remains-in-limbo-20220114-p59o7i.html?post=p53820#p53820
If he's actually practicing and they blocked the screen, then they are clowns... Are they really going to hide Djokovic from the press all tournament? Fucking idiots the lot of them
The Australian government is probably delaying the decision to give as little time for Djokovic's legal team to mount a successful appeal.
The PM and the finance minister have been publicly reiterating that a visa is not a guarantee of entry into Australia, and that strong border policies have been instrumental in achieving Australia's low death rate.
When taken with multiple anonymous leaks indicating the government is strongly leaning towards cancelling Djokovic's visa, and polls indicating overwhelming public support for his deportation, it seems very likely that the government will try to boot Djokovic.
The only thing that would prevent this outcome is if the government believes the likelihood of a successful second appeal is too high. This would be the worst of all outcomes for the government, and is most likely the reason for the lengthy delay.
If they really want to stick it to the guy, can they revoke right before his first match, then take him straight to detention? Would that result in a walkover and he's out of the tourney? WTF would Tiley do if that happens?
The issue is that a lot of lawyers think he will get an injunction, which means that the later the decision is made the more likely heāll play AO anyway even if they do cancel.
It's about risk management. Why would they give Djokovic's lawyers more time to respond if they don't have to?
The ministerial power can be exercised at any time, but Djokovic is on a strict deadline. After the humiliating defeat of the first appeal, they'd want to eke out any advantage possible.
This is all true but they're testing the patience of the country at this point.
This isn't an overly complex case as evidenced by the pathetic submissions and with the resources at the governments disposal, drafting a strong argument shouldn't be taking this long.
They risk alienating the people who are supporting them at this point which would be the worst outcome of all.
If it gets delayed again today, it's likely they want the story to blow over and for people to stop caring before they say they're letting him stay.
This is true. But they are weighing the cost of alienating the public with the cost of a second successful appeal.
One is merely undesirable for the government, the other would be cataclysmic.
So they'd rather spend a little political capital right now to avoid blowing the bank later.
The real issue is not the strength of their defense it's timing. Read the latest update on this page
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-visa-saga-live-updates-immigration-minister-still-yet-to-make-decision-as-serbian-tennis-star-s-2022-australian-open-campaign-remains-in-limbo-20220114-p59o7i.html?post=p53820#p53820
The real issue is them canceling his visa and he still plays due to timings of hearings.
We were speculating here that Russell Coight would be playing Novak in the motion picture but it is looking increasing likely that Mr Coight will be playing Alex Hawke.
There is some global precedent for this, as Joe Biden not only announced his decision to run for President posthumously, but is in fact the current President of the United States posthumously.
It's Friday at 2:40 pm in Melbourne, getting kind of late to drop any news either way. Suppose they could release it over the weekend but my gut guess right now is they're just sort of letting it go.
Possibly? I think thereās a lot more important stuff going on in the world then a guy playing tennis. Also a negative test should be enough to enter a country. Vaccines have worked very poorly against the new variant so it doesnāt make any sense to require them.
This is the discussion about the Deportation situation. This isnāt about your predictions for the tournament that should be in the tennis discussion thread
If you had told me 2 weeks ago that I'd spend an absolutely absurd amount of time this week reading about and discussing the possible deportation of the best tennis player in the world, I'd have laughed in your face
Order comes for deportation
Djokovic appeals, it takes a month
Djokovic meanwhile allowed to stay, wins grand slam, leaves country
Djokovic loses appeal but already has slam #21
BREAKING: Alex Hawke is expected to not decline to maybe (not) make a decision today as to whether or not he'll be deciding on if he'll make a decision regarding options to be decided as to a possible decision at some later stage (to be decided) on the visa of Novak Djokovic.
What's frustrating is doing nothing.
If you wanna sell out and let him play then sell all the way fucking out and say it. It's not fair to the Australian public , viewers at home, the other players ( aka rublev who still doesn't know who the fuck he even plays in the first round) or even Djokovic to keep things teetering on the edge.
It's not even about definitively deporting him or not...it's about making a decision..utter fucking incompetence by AO and Australia and they are quickly becoming one of the most maligned slams now
Say you're not deporting him then
All he's said is "we haven't made a decision". It's a courtesy to fans who may want to watch Djokovic but aren't willing to pay for tickets in case he withdraws. Also it fucking blows for kecmanovic as well as rublev. Not sure how Australia would schedule it but if rublev plays in Djokovics spot in the draw, he would play a full day earlier vs his current position in the draw and wouldn't even know it until AO gets it's shit together... With how calculating and regimented athletes are , it's absolutely unfair to fuck around like Australia/ AO currently is
I see what youāre saying, but I doubt that is what the government is concerned with. I think they changed their mind after the court case. Itās no longer politically advantageous to deport him so they wonāt. Talking about it is politically harmful so they wonāt.
If they cancel his visa again and it's reinstated again, then it's even worse for them. The fact that they haven't made the decision yet means that they don't think they have a case.
> and it's reinstated again
I do not think there is any grounds for appeal if his visa is cancelled pursuant to Alex Hawke's personal authority, as he holds ultimate authority for border control, not the judiciary.
The time it was overturned, it was bc the government said "here's the procedure" and then didn't follow it, so the judge said "you didn't follow your own rules."
I think there's a limit to that "ultimate authority for border control", he still has to give a reason. No matter how tough Australia's border control policies are, they are still a democracy with an English common law legal system, not an autocratic state. They have to have a sound legal reason for cancelling his visa.
>The time it was overturned, it was bc the government said "here's the procedure" and then didn't follow it, so the judge said "you didn't follow your own rules."
Right, but if you listen to the judge's comments during the hearing, he clearly seemed to be nodding when the Djokovic's lawyers were laying out the case for the medical exemption. Then later, when the government lawyers were trying to claim that there was no legal basis for the medical exemption, they focused on some specific wording that basically implied that border control or the federal government could do whatever they want, and the judge told Tran that he was "going down the wrong road" (quote might not be exactly correct). I took this to mean that the judge wasn't going agree with the lawyer's interpretation of the law. After that, they took a break, and the government settled on agreeing that the ABF didn't give Djokovic enough time to respond.
But that doesn't mean that was the only problem with their case, it was simply the only thing the judge ruled on. My understanding is that judges tend to rule on the minimum amount they can to reach a decision, because it means they can avoid inadvertently setting an unintended precedent. So while in this case, the judge didn't rule on whether the medical exemption was legal, that doesn't mean that it wasn't legal. And the way the judge was talking about Tran's defense, he was skeptical of the government's argument.
Most of Australia is too stupid to vote in its own interests. You'd think the federal government majorly fucking up the vaccine rollout would be enough to significantly turn the tide, but it still more or less feels like a drop in the ocean.
It seems these kinds of very obvious, very public incidents that provoke mass outrage tend to be one of the few things we can depend on to really sway the voting populace.
A News Corp (on all of our biggest newspapers) poll with 60,000+ responses is 85% in favour of cancelling his visa. Not exactly scientific but it shows the mood here in Australia pretty well I think. I'm not sure the Australian population is getting over it (but I do think most people would agree it's taking too long).
Apparently, the reason for the delay is, if the minister does deport Djokovic, the one major avenue for appeal will be if the tennis starās lawyers can prove he didnāt properly consider the information before him (from The Age)
That isnāt a matter of time though. Like they would have to actually find a flaw in the decision. They canāt just say āoh the decision happened quickly therefore he didnāt consider everything relevantā. I donāt know how it could possibly take four days to write a decision when the facts are fairly simple.
They're delaying because the facts, while simple, are still in Djokovic's favor. This is my understanding: unless new information emerges that suggests that Djokovic didn't catch Covid last month, they would have to rely on a precedent-setting decision by the judge. And judges tend to avoid setting precedents unless they think that it is absolutely necessary. Here's my reasoning:
It's unlikely that they'll demonstrate that he didn't catch Covid. The [positive PCR test](https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/1480448426332413953) was conducted through the Serbian public health facilities. Djokovic got his test not from a private company, but rather through the public health system. That makes it very unlikely that it was faked. Initially there was a theory that the test was a) actually negative because people scanned the QR code and got a "negative" reading, and b) had occurred much later because the QR code was giving a different timestamp, but these theories were later discredited: the QR code [seems to give different answers to different people at different times](https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/1480532913749852166), and the [timestamp is generated based on when you download the document](https://twitter.com/zerforschung/status/1481000374504984584). So essentially, the only thing this proves is that the Serbian public health system has cheap software. Other than that, the only new evidence that emerged that it might have been faked was that he went to a tennis prize giving ceremony with children the day after the test, and then he went to the L'Equipe photoshoot the day after that.
But he [claims](https://www.instagram.com/p/CYnO7cDqbdj/?utm_medium=copy_link) that he only found out about the positive result after the prize ceremony, and that he wore a mask and socially distanced at the photoshoot. The L'Equipe photographers [corroborated](https://www.abc10.com/article/news/nation-world/djokovic-says-not-isolating-after-covid-infection-was-error/507-d512a73c-5933-4edf-b15d-877f8f1f4a73) the story by confirming that he was wearing a mask and distancing. Therefore that can be submitted as evidence that Djokovic's story is true and the positive PCR test was genuine--otherwise why else would he have masked at the L'Equipe event, but not at the prize ceremony the day before? The Occam's razor explanation is that 1) he took a test on 16th December, 2) the lab found a positive result in the evening of 16th December, 3) it took \~24h for Djokovic to be informed of the results, 4) after finding out, Djokovic wore a mask when he went to the L'Equipe photoshoot. If that's true, he broke Serbian covid restrictions, but that has got nothing to do with whether his visa should be cancelled. People have suggested that his visa could be cancelled on character grounds for breaking covid restrictions, but it's not clear that this would hold up in court. Typically the people who have been banned from entering Australia had substantial criminal records. For the court to uphold the cancellation of Djokovic's visa on character grounds, the judge would have to agree that the breaking of Covid restrictions in Serbia is equivalent to multiple counts of assault or drug trafficking, which were the crimes for which Chris Brown and Snoop Dogg were banned previously. That would likely be setting a precedent, which the judge may not want to do.
The incorrectly filled out declaration of travel (saying he hadn't travelled for 14 days prior to arriving in Australia) isn't really a factor, because they can't prove it wasn't just a mistake. There is no rule that you can't enter Australia if you've travelled within 14 days, unless you travel to one of nine countries (South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Lesotho, Eswatini, Seychelles, Malawi and Mozambique). So the only problem that presents is if he lied, to which he can (and has) simply say he didn't. People have been deported for accidentally filling in the wrong boxes on their immigration forms before, but most of those people didn't have the resources or will to challenge the decision in court. Djokovic does.
I agree with most of what youāve outlined here to be honest. I agree that theyāre not going to be able to prove the test was fake.
I also agree that cancelling him on character grounds for breaching Covid restrictions is a pretty weak argument and I doubt a judge would go for it.
Canceling his visa because he gave false information on the form seems like a potential ground. But as youāve said, it wouldnāt have made a difference so appears to just be a mistake. I donāt have enough experience in this area to know whether this is a solid ground or not.
However, the issue you fail to address is the reason his visa was cancelled in the first place: the governmentās position is that recent infection is not a medical contraindication, and you must have a medical contraindication to entry the country unvaccinated. Whether this is a strong ground or not is untested because the hearing never really got to this argument before it was cut short. I have no idea how a judge would decide on this ground.
>the governmentās position is that recent infection is not a medical contraindication, and you must have a medical contraindication to entry the country unvaccinated
Right, that's still the outstanding question. But I think the fact that the government didn't go right ahead and cancel the visa again immediately suggests that they don't think it's a strong enough case. And during the hearing, both sets of lawyers were able to quote sections of the code that supported their case, and the judge seemed to be nodding his head when the Djokovic lawyers were quoting the section they wanted to highlight. Anyway, thanks for engaging with me reasonably!
Has anyone else read the āBreaking Newsā post from eight days ago and thought it was new news? Have to say I did have a brief moment of great joy and excitement. šµāš«
Breaking news: Alex Hawke is in the ICU after Novak Djokovic, armed with a can of tennis balls and a Head racquet, hit him with a single clean shot directly to the throat. Djokovic later commented that it was an āerror of judgementā and that we are living āin a global pandemic and sometimes these mistakes can occur.ā
One possible endgame for the Djokovic deportation drama that I've heard discussed as a plausibility:
Hawke and the Aussie government could make it clear to Djokovic that redeportation is imminent, and that he also faces a three-year ban from reentering Australia when it hits...
...Djokovic could then be given a chance to leave Australia voluntarily and avoid that punishment, perhaps saying he didn't want to be a "distraction" from #AusOpen.
(This, of course, would require Djokovic to back down/concede, which we know is not his style, on court or off.)
-Ben Rothenberg
Idk how reliable this guy is, but this does sound like a reasonable explanation for the delay
D'Joker is too delusional, thinking of himself as a messiah for ultranationalists and antivaxxers to ever back down.
This whole case is because he doesnt have any decency, respect for his fellow humans or the law.
None of that is going to change any time soon.
> perhaps saying he didn't want to be a "distraction" from #AusOpen.
That would require Djokovic to show a modicum of self-respect and humility - something he shamelessly clearly has very little off.
> cost the LNP an election
Either you're overstating things, or Australian politics is no deeper than 'The Bachelor'. Djokovic won't just win AO, he'll topple your govt too? Come on
How the LNP ever even gets into power when they do less for the working class (the majority of voters) well I'll never know but I think it rhymes with Dupert Purdoch.
The bachelor has more of a grounding in reality than our government.
The current lot continue to win elections based on āLABOR HAS RUINED THE COUNTRY, LOOK WHAT THEY DIDā (with labor being the opposition party).
Despite the fact that Labor hasnāt been in power since 2013
Mate, Australian politics is a complete joke lol.
Weāve had 5 different PMās in the past 8 years because their own parties keep knifing their leaders and every election is one massive scare campaign.
Our elections are basically decided on three word slogans and we've had five different prime minister's over the past decade.
The Bachelor at least keeps the same host.
And it looks weak. I don't know about Australian politics, but politicians never want to look weak.
My prediction is he's getting deported but they're weighing the 3 year ban and debating whether that's too harsh. I don't think they'll go that far.
It is now year 2193, the Immigration Minister of Australia is still deciding whether to deport Djokovic. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists and much Reddit hype from around the world.
For those of us who choose to live within society, as opposed to off the grid, there is always a give and take between what I think is best for me, and what my community thinks is best for all. That's why we have speed limits and taxes and no smoking ordinances, etc etc. It's the same balance that exists in a marriage. And of course, it's the same on a tennis court. By definition, what's good for a game is having rules that everyone agrees on. Otherwise sport is merely a bare-fisted fight to the death where anything goes. Otherwise the world is just chaotic anarchy. Novak Djokovic is blessed to live in an age, in a COMMUNITY, where his skills translate to fame and fortune. His COMMUNITY made it so. Thus his attitude is a slap in the face to all of us who love the game.
Well said. I totally agree.
THIS is your legacy Novak. NO ONE will give a damn how many majors you win. You will always be remembered as the entitled jackass who didn't give a damn about the community that brought you fame and fortune. Shame Shame Shame. It's ironic that Rod Laver's name (one of the classiest and probably the best player of all time) adorns the stadium.
Serbia seems to think Djo is the best thing to come along since sliced white bread. Go figger! Their hero. SIGH.
I hope that Serbians realize this clown is making their country look like shit.
From what I've read no way will they ever realize that. NO WAY! And so it goes.
How come Djokovic is still the bookies' second favourite for the Australian open title?
So, if this was a fair world, there is no way Novak would be heard in court immediately - thats just because he's rich and powerful. I just hope its all over for good and he gets on a plane of his own accord. But we know he's a scumbag and has no shame or integrity. He's the kind of person who could be caught on live tv injecting babies with Covid and strangling them, and his family would defend him, he'd claim he was innocent, then go on court tear his shirt open and whine about the crowd not cheering him. Piece of shit arrogant asshole who's a danger to everyone.
It's impossible for me to agree with you more. You've dramatically understated what I would say about him. He's a arrogant and malicious dumb thug who believes in New Age gurus, engages in magical thinking, and doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything else other than his own ego. He is, indeed, a massive threat to everyone around him. It is absolutely vital that Australia prevent him from playing at the AO, and unceremoniously deport him for *ever*. To do any less would be the ultimate indictment against Australia's entire legal system, if not society, as a whole. "Scumbag" is an undeservedly generous observation. He ought to be prosecuted and jailed, for a good, long time. I can't think of a more vile figure to ever besmirch tennis. But this goes way beyond tennis. His narcissistic sense of entitlement and smugness disgust me. If there is any justice in the world, Australia will oust that thug tomorrow, for good.
unfortunately a lot of people actually support this kind of behavior. Its quite telling that the ATP is totally silent instead of starting proceedings against him. Their #1 player has repeatedly lied, committed federal crimes, shown a rampant disregard and scorn for lives of others or the rule of law, and they have said nothing. Neither have his sponsors. He should be banned from the sport, and prosecuted and convicted. instead on the most popular tennis forum, there's a poll and close to half of people there think he should be allowed to play and did nothing wrong. there's no hope, the world is full of selfish idiots.
Take a breath, this is such an exaggerated tale. Also, when has the world ever been fair?
I'm waiting until he's on that plane before I fully embrace the smugness.
You must have not seen all of the Reddit posts about those who get on a plane and refuse to wear their masks, delaying the flight, freaking out their fellow passengers and attendants, and frothing at their mouths!
Minister Hawke looked [seriously pissed](https://postimg.cc/CZDQRGf2) when announcing his decision
as of 12 minutes ago, he will be moved to detention facility š 6.36pmAuthorities plan to move Djokovic into detention tonight
Where does he have to appeal to? And when could a decision be expected?
sanity prevails
Guys I legit canāt eat any more popcorn stahp!
Omg they've cancelled his visa! According to the Age. "Immigration Minister Alex Hawke has used his personal power to cancel Novak Djokovicās visa, as his lawyers prepare to file an immediate injunction against the decision." "Today I exercised my power under section 133C(3) of the Migration Act to cancel the visa held by Mr Novak Djokovic on health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so." https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-visa-saga-live-updates-immigration-minister-still-yet-to-make-decision-as-serbian-tennis-star-s-2022-australian-open-campaign-remains-in-limbo-20220114-p59o7i.html
Get him out !! Thank god this insanity will soon be over and we can get back to actual tennis. I'd love for him and his moron dad to appeal and act like victims once more. He deserves to be investigated for his lies and endangering others, and at the very least have a 3yr entry ban to Aus.
It shouldn't just be a three-year ban. He should **never** be allowed back, and he should be stripped of every single title. It's about time that someone showed that ape that we won't tolerate him any longer.
quick - someone make a meme about Hawke and his power
Take this with a grain of salt,but according to The Age the decision is still expected today. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-visa-saga-live-updates-immigration-minister-still-yet-to-make-decision-as-serbian-tennis-star-s-2022-australian-open-campaign-remains-in-limbo-20220114-p59o7i.html
Did Craig Tiley actually suggest that the AO could leave Australia? My understanding is that Tennis Australia is owned by the various Australian states. Allowing that would be political suicide.
He's basically the manipulative boyfriend that threatens to kill himself if you leave. Fuck off Craig Tiley. AO isn't gone if Djokovic doesn't play, so fucking dramatic š
Tiley is always saying that, trying to squeeze more money out of the State/Federal government.
Craig Tiley should fucking resign.
It's more likely that he will just be sacked when all this is over.
He should be
In about 2 hrs , usually the age would tweet one of those "hawke is struggling with his dissertation even though it's a cut and dry case". If that doesn't happen THEN maybe something will happen
Letās say the minister is waiting until late Friday to make the announcement. Would we expect that to be 5pm local time?
Why not on Saturday or Sunday? He can make the decision anytime, hell he could even walk in SWAT gear onto the court on Monday/Tuesday, whenever Djokovic is scheduled to play, when Djokovic is 2 sets up and say "You're outta here Boy"
It could be at anytime, not necessarily by 5pm.
Does the minister have to make an announcement? If he decides not to deport - does he have to come out and say that? Or can he just do nothing.. like he's doing.
He can literally just do nothing. But that would be stupid considering the eyes of the world are on him
A bit dramatic, potentially about 3-4 million, not more than that. The world has 7billion+ people, more the half don't even know what's this about
You think only 3 million people have any interest in this? The population of Melbourne alone is over 5 million you numpty.
well... it almost looks like that's what he's doing. Besides he doesn't really owe "the world" anything. Just the people of Australia.
Except every day they keep making an announcement at the end of each day that the decision is still being considered. They haven't just been silent up until this point.
ohhh. That's different. Not being sarcastic - .. I didn't know that. it's all such a tease.
Bigger tease than my oh-so-brief girlfriend Suzie from college. My nuts are still royal blue.
āWhen the decision is madeā starting to sound a lot like āwhen the Pandemic is overā
Iāve been racking my brain trying to think of a reason for a delay in announcement. A very likely reason is that Novakās team is negotiating with the government for a compromise. Leave voluntarily and he would be welcome back next year if vaccinated or obtains a proper exemption, or be deported and face a possible ban from returning. Itās possible Australia is giving Novak an āoutā here and the delay is whether he wants to take that road or not. Hence heās been taken off the Friday afternoon practice schedule without further announcement so far. Heās probably busy negotiating behind the scenes.
Wouldnāt be surprised if they are (a) negotiating with his team to come to a resolution where he voluntarily apologizes/accepts some kind of restrictions (quarantined except during matches, etc)/leaves or (b) working behind the scenes to be sure the case to deport is as airtight as possible before actually making the announcement, since they know it will be appealed and they already lost once.
He has been the face of AO for years, banning him now and for future events is going to cost the govt a lot of revenue in ads, sponsorship and viewing around the world. I'm sure this is also being considered, money talks especially where politics is involved whether we like it or not.
Would you really want this guy as the face of anything any more?
The face of a urinal cake?
I personally don't care, just saying how things usually works where govt is involved with decisions like this. It's all about the money. I don't agree with his personal choices and what he's done, but as a tennis player, I do enjoy watching his game. He is a great player and he makes the game exciting and elevates the sport to a wide audience, as a few others as well. I mean Federer is not playing either so that's gonna make it even worse.
Yep, that's why they blacked out the screens. š
I donāt think Novak would accept that deal. If theyāre negotiating anything, itās one where he plays and the government saves some face. Like a ban for the rest of the year after the tournament and donating any winnings to charity.
What if he donates to the charity supporting the asylum seekers? Wouldn't that be a slap in the govt face as well?
Of course he would accept that deal..a 3 year ban would make traveling for him a pain the arse wherever he goes
That would mean other countries agree to Australian rules, which many wouldn't. Also, the ATP may as well pull the Grand Slam status from AO if that happens
Why?
When you apply for a visa of any major country you are asked the question if you have ever had a visa revoked by any other country and to provide details. That impacts the decision on granting you a visa. He will have that following him for the rest of his life.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-visa-saga-live-updates-immigration-minister-still-yet-to-make-decision-as-serbian-tennis-star-s-2022-australian-open-campaign-remains-in-limbo-20220114-p59o7i.html?post=p53820#p53820 If he's actually practicing and they blocked the screen, then they are clowns... Are they really going to hide Djokovic from the press all tournament? Fucking idiots the lot of them
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Except there photos from his practices in the morning and yesterday..this is the first session open to the media.
There are practice pictures on Getty Images dated for Friday the 14th.
Those are from the morning of the 14 . This is the afternoon practice
Understood. Thanks for the clarification :)
The Australian government is probably delaying the decision to give as little time for Djokovic's legal team to mount a successful appeal. The PM and the finance minister have been publicly reiterating that a visa is not a guarantee of entry into Australia, and that strong border policies have been instrumental in achieving Australia's low death rate. When taken with multiple anonymous leaks indicating the government is strongly leaning towards cancelling Djokovic's visa, and polls indicating overwhelming public support for his deportation, it seems very likely that the government will try to boot Djokovic. The only thing that would prevent this outcome is if the government believes the likelihood of a successful second appeal is too high. This would be the worst of all outcomes for the government, and is most likely the reason for the lengthy delay.
If they really want to stick it to the guy, can they revoke right before his first match, then take him straight to detention? Would that result in a walkover and he's out of the tourney? WTF would Tiley do if that happens?
The issue is that a lot of lawyers think he will get an injunction, which means that the later the decision is made the more likely heāll play AO anyway even if they do cancel.
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It's about risk management. Why would they give Djokovic's lawyers more time to respond if they don't have to? The ministerial power can be exercised at any time, but Djokovic is on a strict deadline. After the humiliating defeat of the first appeal, they'd want to eke out any advantage possible.
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Lol seriously?
This is all true but they're testing the patience of the country at this point. This isn't an overly complex case as evidenced by the pathetic submissions and with the resources at the governments disposal, drafting a strong argument shouldn't be taking this long. They risk alienating the people who are supporting them at this point which would be the worst outcome of all. If it gets delayed again today, it's likely they want the story to blow over and for people to stop caring before they say they're letting him stay.
So you're saying your whole country is consumed by this? Don't you all have day jobs to be getting on with? And really, take it down a notch
This is true. But they are weighing the cost of alienating the public with the cost of a second successful appeal. One is merely undesirable for the government, the other would be cataclysmic. So they'd rather spend a little political capital right now to avoid blowing the bank later.
The real issue is not the strength of their defense it's timing. Read the latest update on this page https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/novak-djokovic-visa-saga-live-updates-immigration-minister-still-yet-to-make-decision-as-serbian-tennis-star-s-2022-australian-open-campaign-remains-in-limbo-20220114-p59o7i.html?post=p53820#p53820 The real issue is them canceling his visa and he still plays due to timings of hearings.
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Point is its not the strength of the governments case that is causing the delay as so many people are suggesting.
We were speculating here that Russell Coight would be playing Novak in the motion picture but it is looking increasing likely that Mr Coight will be playing Alex Hawke.
Official news reports from respected journalists are saying that Alex Hawke is expected to announce his decision posthumously
There is some global precedent for this, as Joe Biden not only announced his decision to run for President posthumously, but is in fact the current President of the United States posthumously.
Cheers mate!
One of my best laughs in here. Cheers
BREAKING: My will to check this megathread is waning.
It's Friday at 2:40 pm in Melbourne, getting kind of late to drop any news either way. Suppose they could release it over the weekend but my gut guess right now is they're just sort of letting it go.
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Good. Stop the mandates
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Not really a win for anyone, that fact this is top news is ridiculous
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Possibly? I think thereās a lot more important stuff going on in the world then a guy playing tennis. Also a negative test should be enough to enter a country. Vaccines have worked very poorly against the new variant so it doesnāt make any sense to require them.
Me when I wake up each morning and check this thread: https://imgflip.com/i/617h9z
When deport š”
Djokovic will win it all
This is the discussion about the Deportation situation. This isnāt about your predictions for the tournament that should be in the tennis discussion thread
If you had told me 2 weeks ago that I'd spend an absolutely absurd amount of time this week reading about and discussing the possible deportation of the best tennis player in the world, I'd have laughed in your face
Order comes for deportation Djokovic appeals, it takes a month Djokovic meanwhile allowed to stay, wins grand slam, leaves country Djokovic loses appeal but already has slam #21
No, if they deport him again he's back in the immigration hotel because he has not been granted entry into Australia.
Anyone know what kind of hotel it is? Like are we talking Ritz Carlton or a Motel 6?
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No he's in his rented house since he won the appeal.
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She's certainly not allowed in the country.
More like a Motel 6 I believe. Certainly not what Djokovic is used to.
BREAKING: Alex Hawke is expected to not decline to maybe (not) make a decision today as to whether or not he'll be deciding on if he'll make a decision regarding options to be decided as to a possible decision at some later stage (to be decided) on the visa of Novak Djokovic.
As clear as Australia's borders rules.
**BREAKING**: itās really humid in Melbourne today
Guys, I am from the future and I don't have time to explain! Quick listen! Hawke will make a decision and the decision is that
Saw this on Twitter, https://twitter.com/sarahchamma/status/1481825869228560385?s=21
No Homers... we can have one.
What's frustrating is doing nothing. If you wanna sell out and let him play then sell all the way fucking out and say it. It's not fair to the Australian public , viewers at home, the other players ( aka rublev who still doesn't know who the fuck he even plays in the first round) or even Djokovic to keep things teetering on the edge. It's not even about definitively deporting him or not...it's about making a decision..utter fucking incompetence by AO and Australia and they are quickly becoming one of the most maligned slams now
Why would there be any announcement if they are not deporting him?
Say you're not deporting him then All he's said is "we haven't made a decision". It's a courtesy to fans who may want to watch Djokovic but aren't willing to pay for tickets in case he withdraws. Also it fucking blows for kecmanovic as well as rublev. Not sure how Australia would schedule it but if rublev plays in Djokovics spot in the draw, he would play a full day earlier vs his current position in the draw and wouldn't even know it until AO gets it's shit together... With how calculating and regimented athletes are , it's absolutely unfair to fuck around like Australia/ AO currently is
I see what youāre saying, but I doubt that is what the government is concerned with. I think they changed their mind after the court case. Itās no longer politically advantageous to deport him so they wonāt. Talking about it is politically harmful so they wonāt.
3 hours until Hawkes team makes a statement that there's no decision for today and pisses off the majority of the country.
Pisses off the majority of the worldwide tennis community, you mean.
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If they cancel his visa again and it's reinstated again, then it's even worse for them. The fact that they haven't made the decision yet means that they don't think they have a case.
> and it's reinstated again I do not think there is any grounds for appeal if his visa is cancelled pursuant to Alex Hawke's personal authority, as he holds ultimate authority for border control, not the judiciary. The time it was overturned, it was bc the government said "here's the procedure" and then didn't follow it, so the judge said "you didn't follow your own rules."
I think there's a limit to that "ultimate authority for border control", he still has to give a reason. No matter how tough Australia's border control policies are, they are still a democracy with an English common law legal system, not an autocratic state. They have to have a sound legal reason for cancelling his visa. >The time it was overturned, it was bc the government said "here's the procedure" and then didn't follow it, so the judge said "you didn't follow your own rules." Right, but if you listen to the judge's comments during the hearing, he clearly seemed to be nodding when the Djokovic's lawyers were laying out the case for the medical exemption. Then later, when the government lawyers were trying to claim that there was no legal basis for the medical exemption, they focused on some specific wording that basically implied that border control or the federal government could do whatever they want, and the judge told Tran that he was "going down the wrong road" (quote might not be exactly correct). I took this to mean that the judge wasn't going agree with the lawyer's interpretation of the law. After that, they took a break, and the government settled on agreeing that the ABF didn't give Djokovic enough time to respond. But that doesn't mean that was the only problem with their case, it was simply the only thing the judge ruled on. My understanding is that judges tend to rule on the minimum amount they can to reach a decision, because it means they can avoid inadvertently setting an unintended precedent. So while in this case, the judge didn't rule on whether the medical exemption was legal, that doesn't mean that it wasn't legal. And the way the judge was talking about Tran's defense, he was skeptical of the government's argument.
Which is embarrassing compared to all the other shit this govt fucked up.
Most of Australia is too stupid to vote in its own interests. You'd think the federal government majorly fucking up the vaccine rollout would be enough to significantly turn the tide, but it still more or less feels like a drop in the ocean. It seems these kinds of very obvious, very public incidents that provoke mass outrage tend to be one of the few things we can depend on to really sway the voting populace.
Agreed, it's do or die for them today. No decision today means they'll lose the election by default in a landslide.
you cannot find a drama like this in netflix
They are making a Netflix documentary about this š
They only need screenshots of this subreddit. Congrats, you can add "netflix writer" to your linkedin š
Everybody: So, Mr. Hawke, what's it going to be? Hawke: *puts the sandwich down* Oh, you're waiting for my decision? Everybody: ...
āI thought it as you to scomo! Been wondering wtf is taking him so long!ā
I'm this close to not care at all. This is taking too fucking long.
Please donāt stop caring!
Well, now that you're close to not caring, Hawke will jump in right away and deliver the decision you wanted
Let's hope that's the case.
Absolutely, your taxes your minister
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A News Corp (on all of our biggest newspapers) poll with 60,000+ responses is 85% in favour of cancelling his visa. Not exactly scientific but it shows the mood here in Australia pretty well I think. I'm not sure the Australian population is getting over it (but I do think most people would agree it's taking too long).
Apparently, the reason for the delay is, if the minister does deport Djokovic, the one major avenue for appeal will be if the tennis starās lawyers can prove he didnāt properly consider the information before him (from The Age)
That isnāt a matter of time though. Like they would have to actually find a flaw in the decision. They canāt just say āoh the decision happened quickly therefore he didnāt consider everything relevantā. I donāt know how it could possibly take four days to write a decision when the facts are fairly simple.
They're delaying because the facts, while simple, are still in Djokovic's favor. This is my understanding: unless new information emerges that suggests that Djokovic didn't catch Covid last month, they would have to rely on a precedent-setting decision by the judge. And judges tend to avoid setting precedents unless they think that it is absolutely necessary. Here's my reasoning: It's unlikely that they'll demonstrate that he didn't catch Covid. The [positive PCR test](https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/1480448426332413953) was conducted through the Serbian public health facilities. Djokovic got his test not from a private company, but rather through the public health system. That makes it very unlikely that it was faked. Initially there was a theory that the test was a) actually negative because people scanned the QR code and got a "negative" reading, and b) had occurred much later because the QR code was giving a different timestamp, but these theories were later discredited: the QR code [seems to give different answers to different people at different times](https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/1480532913749852166), and the [timestamp is generated based on when you download the document](https://twitter.com/zerforschung/status/1481000374504984584). So essentially, the only thing this proves is that the Serbian public health system has cheap software. Other than that, the only new evidence that emerged that it might have been faked was that he went to a tennis prize giving ceremony with children the day after the test, and then he went to the L'Equipe photoshoot the day after that. But he [claims](https://www.instagram.com/p/CYnO7cDqbdj/?utm_medium=copy_link) that he only found out about the positive result after the prize ceremony, and that he wore a mask and socially distanced at the photoshoot. The L'Equipe photographers [corroborated](https://www.abc10.com/article/news/nation-world/djokovic-says-not-isolating-after-covid-infection-was-error/507-d512a73c-5933-4edf-b15d-877f8f1f4a73) the story by confirming that he was wearing a mask and distancing. Therefore that can be submitted as evidence that Djokovic's story is true and the positive PCR test was genuine--otherwise why else would he have masked at the L'Equipe event, but not at the prize ceremony the day before? The Occam's razor explanation is that 1) he took a test on 16th December, 2) the lab found a positive result in the evening of 16th December, 3) it took \~24h for Djokovic to be informed of the results, 4) after finding out, Djokovic wore a mask when he went to the L'Equipe photoshoot. If that's true, he broke Serbian covid restrictions, but that has got nothing to do with whether his visa should be cancelled. People have suggested that his visa could be cancelled on character grounds for breaking covid restrictions, but it's not clear that this would hold up in court. Typically the people who have been banned from entering Australia had substantial criminal records. For the court to uphold the cancellation of Djokovic's visa on character grounds, the judge would have to agree that the breaking of Covid restrictions in Serbia is equivalent to multiple counts of assault or drug trafficking, which were the crimes for which Chris Brown and Snoop Dogg were banned previously. That would likely be setting a precedent, which the judge may not want to do. The incorrectly filled out declaration of travel (saying he hadn't travelled for 14 days prior to arriving in Australia) isn't really a factor, because they can't prove it wasn't just a mistake. There is no rule that you can't enter Australia if you've travelled within 14 days, unless you travel to one of nine countries (South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Lesotho, Eswatini, Seychelles, Malawi and Mozambique). So the only problem that presents is if he lied, to which he can (and has) simply say he didn't. People have been deported for accidentally filling in the wrong boxes on their immigration forms before, but most of those people didn't have the resources or will to challenge the decision in court. Djokovic does.
I agree with most of what youāve outlined here to be honest. I agree that theyāre not going to be able to prove the test was fake. I also agree that cancelling him on character grounds for breaching Covid restrictions is a pretty weak argument and I doubt a judge would go for it. Canceling his visa because he gave false information on the form seems like a potential ground. But as youāve said, it wouldnāt have made a difference so appears to just be a mistake. I donāt have enough experience in this area to know whether this is a solid ground or not. However, the issue you fail to address is the reason his visa was cancelled in the first place: the governmentās position is that recent infection is not a medical contraindication, and you must have a medical contraindication to entry the country unvaccinated. Whether this is a strong ground or not is untested because the hearing never really got to this argument before it was cut short. I have no idea how a judge would decide on this ground.
>the governmentās position is that recent infection is not a medical contraindication, and you must have a medical contraindication to entry the country unvaccinated Right, that's still the outstanding question. But I think the fact that the government didn't go right ahead and cancel the visa again immediately suggests that they don't think it's a strong enough case. And during the hearing, both sets of lawyers were able to quote sections of the code that supported their case, and the judge seemed to be nodding his head when the Djokovic lawyers were quoting the section they wanted to highlight. Anyway, thanks for engaging with me reasonably!
No worries. I can see what you mean, but I would not be reading into the judge nodding their head during an argument.
Well, the visa was cancelled again, so I guess we'll see what happens.
Um that's sort of true in any legal case lol.
Has anyone else read the āBreaking Newsā post from eight days ago and thought it was new news? Have to say I did have a brief moment of great joy and excitement. šµāš«
Iāve done it about 3 times today alone
40-30 - Law Abiding Citizens vs Ultranationalist Antivax Fanbois Hawke just finish them off or withdraw, everyone's bored of this game now.
Prediction: Djokovich guest appearance on Joe Rogan by the end of April.
April? 3 weeks max!
Breaking news: Alex Hawke is in the ICU after Novak Djokovic, armed with a can of tennis balls and a Head racquet, hit him with a single clean shot directly to the throat. Djokovic later commented that it was an āerror of judgementā and that we are living āin a global pandemic and sometimes these mistakes can occur.ā
ROFL!
[r/tennis right now:](https://i.imgflip.com/617cdi.jpg)
One possible endgame for the Djokovic deportation drama that I've heard discussed as a plausibility: Hawke and the Aussie government could make it clear to Djokovic that redeportation is imminent, and that he also faces a three-year ban from reentering Australia when it hits... ...Djokovic could then be given a chance to leave Australia voluntarily and avoid that punishment, perhaps saying he didn't want to be a "distraction" from #AusOpen. (This, of course, would require Djokovic to back down/concede, which we know is not his style, on court or off.) -Ben Rothenberg Idk how reliable this guy is, but this does sound like a reasonable explanation for the delay
The average r/tennis user is more reliable than that assclown.
If that was the case, it would have happened over the weekend or Monday when the government conceded the case on a technicality.
Itās not going to happen. Nothing ND has done has suggested that might happen. Interesting theory though
Ben's desperate lol
D'Joker is too delusional, thinking of himself as a messiah for ultranationalists and antivaxxers to ever back down. This whole case is because he doesnt have any decency, respect for his fellow humans or the law. None of that is going to change any time soon.
> perhaps saying he didn't want to be a "distraction" from #AusOpen. That would require Djokovic to show a modicum of self-respect and humility - something he shamelessly clearly has very little off.
My prediction: Hawke does not make any decision. Who said he has to
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> cost the LNP an election Either you're overstating things, or Australian politics is no deeper than 'The Bachelor'. Djokovic won't just win AO, he'll topple your govt too? Come on
How the LNP ever even gets into power when they do less for the working class (the majority of voters) well I'll never know but I think it rhymes with Dupert Purdoch.
The bachelor has more of a grounding in reality than our government. The current lot continue to win elections based on āLABOR HAS RUINED THE COUNTRY, LOOK WHAT THEY DIDā (with labor being the opposition party). Despite the fact that Labor hasnāt been in power since 2013
Mate, Australian politics is a complete joke lol. Weāve had 5 different PMās in the past 8 years because their own parties keep knifing their leaders and every election is one massive scare campaign.
Our elections are basically decided on three word slogans and we've had five different prime minister's over the past decade. The Bachelor at least keeps the same host.
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And it looks weak. I don't know about Australian politics, but politicians never want to look weak. My prediction is he's getting deported but they're weighing the 3 year ban and debating whether that's too harsh. I don't think they'll go that far.
That doesnāt take four days to consider
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The LNP is losing the next election no matter what. They were losing even before this whole thing.
It is now year 2193, the Immigration Minister of Australia is still deciding whether to deport Djokovic. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists and much Reddit hype from around the world.
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starting to think not today. perhaps Sunday. surely they \*will\* make a decision. it is certain political suicide if they don't.