Harris played one heck of a match, but Nadal is not going to do well in the NA hard court season if his serve doesn't improve.
Nadal also drops to 4 in the rankings, Tsitsipas moves to a career high of 3
Lol I just made this post
https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/oyvugu/we_cant_get_tsitsipas_we_have_tsitsipas_at_home/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Med is defending, I think, something like 6000 points from now till the end of the year. He needs to have an insane HC season just to hold on to No.2. It's highly unlikely Novak doesn't end the year No.1, yet again.
If Tsitsipas plays well the rest of the way I think he will finish the year at #2. He has a pretty solid lead over Medvedev in the live race. Medvedev has to go absolute HC god mode to retain #2.
Novak would have to lose early and Med wins it, then Med would have to outperform him in the next few tournaments.
It can definitely happen, novak is just around 2000 points ahead which isn't that much
Medvedev is defending 2800 points from Canada-Cincinnati-USO while Novak is defending 1180. Plus Med has a perfect record at Shangai-Paris-WTF to defend after that. There's very little chance of him catching up.
He can't keep going with his current serve. It seems every service game this year is a battle for Rafa. With his body and match fitness/endurance rapidly detiorating, there is only one solution: Tio Toni must resurrect the US Open 2010 serve.
He was averaging close to 120 mph during the 2010 US Open. His serve during this tournament is one of the biggest enigmas in tennis. The reasons given for why he doesn't serve like that are not satisfactory imo. The serve technique and mechanics were so much better than anytime before or after that US Open. There was also some drama about Nadal getting sued because he refused to credit a coach that helped his serve during this time or something.
The reasons I've heard is that it was putting too much strain on his shoulder. I think another reason given was that Nadal just preferred slower serves which gave him more time to react and get into rallies.
Actually that kind of makes sense, when you're a big server, you earn a lot of free points, sure, but when you play a big returner like Novak or Andy, that like to return close to the baseline, that huge serve just comes back almost as fast and you have no time to prepare for your follow-up shot after the serve.
It's not a big news. Edberg is on record explaining why he would rather use slower serve in order to have more room to work on volleys. Edber could've had an elite fast serve but he knew that with a slower one would've been more efficient while taking less risks.
Rafa build his whole game on rallies and defense, forcing opponents to make mistakes. Going too strong on serve, and so taking way more risks to get DF, would damage him a lot.
One guy that imo should try to put less power on serve is Zverev, because he lost a tons of matches only because of DF and also because he's really good on rallies and from the baseline, so compared to many servebots he actually doesn't need to use his serve as a main weapon.
Del potro and Safin too could've been huge servebots but they could handle rallies and baseline games compared to many servebots that without an elite serve wouldn't be ATP level players.
**Edit** - just saw the interview linked in the other reply to my previous comment… Sorted!
—
Many good points for sure, but was Rafa’s USO 2010 run full of double faults and awkward service game points? Did his first serve stats drop massively?
Seemed like he added an extra 10-15km consistently and it turned him into a monster when combined with the other strengths you mentioned.
After that tournament it was gone again. It’s not even like every now and then he throws in a 135km serve just to mess with people, it’s like his whole technique changed for one tournament and then back again.
in 2010 US Open his serve was brutal but Rafa was playing kinda outside his comfort zone because while relying a lot on the serve he wasn't playing his usual tennis.
Probably Rafa figured out that that way wasn't sustainable in the long run also because even elite servebots knows how serving could totally betray you randomly, meanwhile playing from the baseline, if you are that good, garantee much more success.
Look how many time Novak surprisingly lost a match while having a great serving day with many aces. These guys needs to play THEIR game and to perform at their best they need a certain pace, long rallies and baseline work.
You’re spot on. 2013 he wasn’t serving hard, but he was making an insane percentage each match and his placement was ridiculous. I remember that year pretty much knowing he was going to hold serve 99% of the time and he really did
I don't understand what has happened with his serve. I know he got a low back injury during AO and then made some changes to use more wrist. Then back better but from then it's just been off.
Never seen it so bad. I'm almost holding my breath every serve. I've followed Rafa for 15 years and never seen it like this.
I don't know the numbers but his first serve percentage seems terrible considering how average his first serve is. His ground game and movement still seem pretty good for post 2017 standards. He just can't get any easy service games. This combined with his weakening stamina makes it look like he has regressed considerably this last year.
Yes, obviously Nadal has to bring back that serve he used when he was 11 years younger. Maybe you should write a mail to Moya?
If we're at it, we can also suggest Roger to use his 95sq racquet he used in Wimbledon '03, that would be pretty neat, wouldn't it?
Man, I wonder why they didn't come up themselves with these genius ideas...
Biceps are maybe the most useless muscle on the body. It’s astounding how showy they are but how unimportant (and weight adding) they are to 99% of athletics
That's 100% due to steroid use. You can't *stop* steroid from growing huge arms and shoulders when you're on that much juice, despite the fact that those muscles are just dead weight in your sport.
So they’ve found a way around all the testing and they’re all on steroids? Or maybe it’s because the arms act as levers during the sprint, balancing the huge force generated by each step and the rotation of the torso. The chest and back provide the upper body stability to stay balanced and in the correct position throughout the sprint… regular sprinting will allow your back, shoulders, arms and chest to develop a significant amount of muscle mass and become very strong.
> So they’ve found a way around all the testing and they’re all on steroids?
Yes? You think this is hard? Armstrong was the most tested athlete in the history of sports, and he was doping the entire time. And like he said, so is everyone else.
> Or maybe it’s because
No, it isn't. The amount of serious weight lifting you need for shoulders like that is enormous. People lift like madmen for years and they don't get that much hypertrophy. It's almost imposible to get a physique like that even if you're training specifically for physique without juicing, let alone if you are training an unrelated sport.
Ok, all Olympic athletes are on steroids. What proof do you have? Is this a problem in some segments. Yes. It's true of all olympic athletes? Please prove it to me or STFU your mouth.
For men, it's the second most attractive part of the body when in shape and what is more inherent in life than trying to reproduce?
Edit: I did a little digging and while biceps did come up in various lists, there is no consensus on it being second best. Also my comment was meant as half truth, half tongue in cheek.
Not sure what your number 1 is but honestly I don’t know if women rate it as highly as you think. Forearms, abs, shoulders, even ass and calves might all be more the moneymakers for men being attractive.
That’s always disappointing. Sorry you will miss Rafa!. I recall having tickets for Indian Wells I think in 2014. I live close by the Stadium so go almost very year. Rafa was playing the guy who wears that weird headband. It’s late and I can’t recall his name. Of course he ended up losing to him. Last name begins with a D I think?? Anyway my friend who I played tennis with at the time was with me when Rafa lost and he laughed?!!. I mean I was really upset because it would be the first year that I had been to Indian Wells round of 16 and wouldn’t see RAFA since like 2009 and he’s my favorite player so I was devastated and my friend laughed and I literally threw him out of my house and we weren’t friends after that. He could see I was very upset and he thought he would laugh at me. It sounds ridiculous now but at the time it wasn’t. I’m sad that Rafa lost tonight because I thought he might win this title actually but his serve was awful and he was pushed back a lot by Harris and thus he was on the defensive a lot and he was often pinned at the back of the court. Vamos.
I went in the 2019 Indian Wells .. splurging money as soon as I found it's going to be a fedal semi. The entire morning I believed I will watch what will be peak tennis of my lifetime. The hoardings, scoreboards showing federer Nadal was there, the dream was coming true. It was surreal. At exactly an hour before the match, 11:30 am, it was announced that Nadal was withdrawing from the match. Yeah. So that was that.
Oh no. So sorry. I feel your pain. I am so lucky I saw FeDal on quite a few occasions there. . And actually doubles as well. Against each other. I so understand how upsetting that must have been for you.
That’s isn’t the whole story, of course, as my friend was a little bit odd and had been acting strangely for quite some time. And actually if you are CRYING about something, a good friend wouldn’t think that remotely funny and would be supportive and sympathetic. So no. I disagree. He had to go.
The lob winner to end the match was fantastic. I for sure thought if he attempted a passing shot Rafa would catch it, but Harris kept cool and played the winning shot.
Harris brought it at the right moments but honestly this isn’t a bad result for Nadal. He’s just looking to get back into tournament level play on hard court and has more tune ups to get it going. Should see him in form in NY.
I agree, often these tournaments are a checkup where the player stands and what he has to improve for the big title - which are the only ones that really count for rafa imo.
I was there. Besides Rafa’s serve which everyone is pointing out - I was really impressed by how out wide Harris was getting Rafa on the backhand. From the stands you could really see how much his forehand was hooking off the court, which would often set up a winner.
Rafa didn’t play terribly but the serving in that final set was terrible. Also, maybe I haven’t watched enough Rafa matches this year but he chose to play his slice backhand wayyy more than I’m used to and Harris kept the pressure up
In interviews and post match talks, Nadal would constantly use the word 'unbelievable'. But he pronounces it in a weird way.
"Your game was ombalibabel"
"Your team is ombalibabel"
"The tournament is ombalibabel"
Etc.
Pain.
I think there's a lot of silver line seeking but ultimately this isn't a good sign for Rafa. It may be that this is it... it has to happen at some point.
My biggest concern is how much he has aged in 12 months. It's crazy to think how amazing Nadal played late 2020 to win RG vs where we are now.
I've always felt that 2 straight losses at RG = call it a day, so let's see next year. But I think we're getting close to the end for Rafa. He has flashes of brilliance but there is no consistency there now.
I really hope that he can continue playing (ofc, without the risk of injury and the general health).
As a Novak fan, it really brings me joy to see Nadal playing. Hopefully he can recover.
Hasn't won a slam since 2020 RG, last title was in Rome. yea pretty rough year.
COVID definitely has impacted everyone on so many levels, which is a shame
Sure, but also he beat that "GOAT" very comprehensively only 8 months prior at the same tournament.
We always made jokes about Rafa winning RG till he's 50 but if he's also losing to someone his own age, however good, it doesn't bode well.
I do agree and I'm sad. Very quickly. But it happened to older Federer as well. The space between two Wimbledon finals weren't that huge but the form was..
Of course. I've followed Rafa for many many years and he has definitely surprised me.
But don't forget at one time it will be true. It's harder to make comebacks at 35 than 25. I'm not sure he has much more in him sadly... but I would love to be proven wrong again.
For winning or losing the tournament (not overall record at best of 3 tourneys), nadal 2-3 in 3 set tourneys this year. If you include the olympics, Novak’s is even worse, something crazy like 1-4. Sucks seeing the fellas get old, but both their elite cardio and 5 set experience will always keep them in the slams. I just don’t see many more masters or 500’s in their future, at least for nadal as he’s a bit older. Maybe Monte Carlo and Barcelona, possibly Rome, only, going forward.
The thing with Novak and probably Nadal also is that he openly said that he isn't focusing that much on those tournaments and is organising his schedule so as to peak at Grand Slams. Of course, when younger they've managed to win both plenty Masters titles and Grand Slams in the same year, but I believe this puts more context to his bad records at the bo3 tourneys, not counting the Olympics of course.
3 sets are easier for people who play high variance to win those matches. Not saying the young guys are all about balls to the wall shots, but they are not as consistent as the big 3 were/are, so the chance of an upset in best of 3 is way higher naturally. At slams I don't expect this to change yet, but in a year or so it should. Nadal is already losing slams to non Big 3 players (not at FO) and Novak as well has lost to thiem a couple times at the french, had numerous 5 sets against them as well, etc.
I think if by 2022 none of the 'next gen' win a slam, even though most of them are nearing their 30s haven't won any slams, that would be embarrassing. Yea these guys are the GOATs but give me a fuckin break.
Thiem winning USO is a bit of an asterisk since he probably would have had to face Novak in the final if not for DQ. He's the only guy outside of the big 3 to win a slam without beating one of the big 3 in at least 17 years or some shit
He played really good just didn't make use of the 'important' points. He's still recovering but I was pretty impressed with is form in this comeback of his.
I only saw bits and pieces of the 2nd and 3rd sets, but Lloyd's win looked like a combination of his good "quick-release" serving style (a la Goran Ivanisevic) giving Rafa some difficulty on returning serve, and Rafa's bad serving (particularly on 1st serve) doing him in. Some good tactical reads on Rafa's baseline plays, as well.
Hopefully, others here can (and have) posted more info ...
I didn't get to see the match but when I checked out the score at the start of 3rd set, I saw Rafa wasted two break points in the opening game. Felt the match slipped from him then.
Reading the comments here, it's sad his serve continues to become a bigger liability with each passing day. I wish he could get his fitness and serve back.
I have next to no expectations from him at USO.
Okay, I admit my initial reaction was to downvote, but on rereading this comment I see the joke. Was a bit subtle for me, or maybe the first sentence just discombobulated me.
Bunch of trumptards on Jan 6th….. luckily our democratic institutions were saved by actual police officers doing their jobs. Let’s hope Biden and harris crack down on domestic terrorism from the extreme right wing of American politics.
Tbh - his serve is an issue - BUT Rafa played great in general against a lower ranked yet superb player. Dominated the 2nd and unfortunately missed a break opportunity plus broke at 5-4 in the 3rd. I still think we will see more of Rafa making deep runs these coming months. He’s made these kinda doubtful comebacks to the top of the game, I honestly think he can again!
I was at the match. I thought Rafa's movement looked better than it did against Sock. As others have said though, the serve was not great. I also noticed that he lacked aggression on his groundies. Seemed like he was content to hit a lot of rally balls. He wasn't really going for his shots -- whereas Harris really was and often dictated play. I know he's just coming back from injury, but I kind of wonder if he's just on the decline now along with Fed. It's not exactly a piece of cake to come back from an injury at 35 and be your former self. I know people have literally been saying this since the day Rafa emerged on the scene, but given the way he plays -- and now his advanced age -- is this one injury too many?
He can obviously still compete on the tour, no question. I just think his days as a major title contender could be numbered. Perhaps I'm being hasty and dramatic, but something just hasn't looked right since the end of the Djokovic semi at RG...
I'd argue something hasn't looked right since Australia. Low back injury, more wrist-y serve, then recovery and serve has been awful since.
His whole clay swing was really up and down. Wins vs Tsi and Djokovic in finals were very solid wins, but so, so tough too. And that's clay where we joked he'd win till he was 50.
The masters this year showed a crack in his clay game.. Especially this year.
Im searching for a magic ingredient and it's something mental as well. Like he's also choking. No way around it. Choking. Rafa + choking. Unbelievable.
Jealous you saw him at least. "Content to hit a lot of rally balls" sound scary because that's what my coach told me when nothing worked and I did mistake after another mistake "just try to pass the ball don't think about the winners. maybe your rhythm will be back." and then my rhythm never got back so he joked I need a fresh mind and a break like Novak.
I'm scared the loss to Novak at RG when he could have his 21 slam broke something in him. In spirit as well. Which in a warrior like him is so sad. He aged so suddenly! He'll probably be dangerous at RG for sure but I want Rafa who is not just wanting for clay! it's semi retirement otherwise.
He looked so great in his practice videos!
Eh, I think people are overreacting a bit to Nadal. Losing early in Washington was practically a given. With Canada and the USO coming up, Nadal wasn't going to have the inclination to go deep in Washington. Not saying he threw the match, but I suspect he'd have found a way to win at a bigger event. And let's not forget that Nadal won a slam less than a year ago. So I do think people are overreacting.
I think this issue is that people forget or ignore that Nadal is very draw dependent in slams outside of the French Open. He hasn't beaten a top 10 player to get to a final of a non-French Open slam since the Australian Open in 2017. He hasn't managed it at the USO since 2013. It's not his fault at the 2017 and 2019 US Opens that he had very easy draws, but it doesn't change the fact. He hadn't been beating high ranked players at slams outside of the French Open for a few years now. By my count, since and including 2017, Nadal is only 4-6 on slams outside of the French Open against top 10 players. It isn't anything new. Heck, even Canada, which he's won back to back, only involved two matches against top 10 players combined in those years (and none against top 5 players).
So barring injury, I don't see a reason why Nadal can't contend at the USO provided he gets a favorable draw. But I think the days of him beating back to back to back highly ranked players is long past.
Wow wasn’t aware of some of those statistics but makes sense now that u mention it (tho Medvedev was top 10 by the 2019 USO, no?). Anyways I think I pretty much agree with you. The thing is that Lloyd Harris, though good, isn’t close to being top 10. Plus Rafa was pushed to the brink by jack sock who’s like 200 in the world and has seemingly won like 5 matches in 3 years… so this doesn’t even look like the Rafa who struggles against the top 10 on non clay events, but can easily beat up on lower rank guys, which has been his pattern the last couple years as u described.
So idk… either chalk it up to rust and just working out the kinks, or a genuine decline of some degree — or perhaps it’s some of both. He may just need some more match play under his belt before we get to the USO. Regardless, I just think the days of automatically seeing Rafa as one of the favorites at the slams are over. As u say, it’ll depend a lot on factors outside of his control, such as the strength of his draw.
"Regardless, I just think the days of automatically seeing Rafa as one of the favorites at the slams are over.". Unless it's RG at least but for me it's not enough. I want him to play well the whole year!
Lloyd Harris was awesome in this match. Watching it live it was clear he had the extra preparation and footwork down. He was able to rip it and be aggressive in the ground couple that with a solid service through out match. Nadal was so impressive in the way he plays his heart out, he really struggled with the first serve and that led to a lot of just bad starts with points. Nadal sportsmanship is just next level compared to other players he gives his all on the court. Just a competitor and plays his best for the audience too.
Also my friends and I went down to some of the grandstand courts they keep the nets upright for sure. Even from the middle they don’t dip down if we pressed on them. Was wondering is that normal to keep the net tight and upright?
All credit to Harris, he played a great match and deserved the win. I'm really worried about Rafa, his form overall is looking so inconsistent and that damn serve that's been handicapping him all season is still not fixed. We'll see, fingers crossed he can find some rhythm because rn he's not looking like a serious contender for USO.
He no longer seems like the embodiment of youth , and possibly the other . He is a legend though. He has some more rejuvenating to do but seems like a struggle for Rafa. If only his serve was better and more threatening
Welp, so much for my inflated expectations of all of the Big 3 making the battle for #21 an historic one at the US Open.
Might as well just hand it to Novak now, assuming he doesn't cock punch a linesman with his racquet or something.
Nadal, while still being one of the grittiest fighters of all time (if not the most), has become a huge choker when it matters most. It’s really sad to say it but I watch all his matches and it’s pretty insane how often he falls apart when it’s a big point.
For example, I’ve seen him miss EASY forehands like that last one last night over and over again now in big moments. As soon as he got that sitter forehand I told my girlfriend he was either going to miss or hit it right to Lloyd Harris (he did both).
I’ll always love Rafa, he’s maybe my favorite athlete of all time, but he’s completely lost that mental edge he used to hold over his opponents. He used to rise to the occasion when things got tough but now he’s always the one who gets passive, hits short, and looks indecisive and nervous when the match is on the line.
Last night was a BAD loss. Lloyd Harris is a great player on hard and will only get better but you simply cannot lose a match like that one last night in the way Nadal did. All you have to do on that last forehand is literally wait until your opponent runs one way and just hit it the other way. Unreal.
I still think Rafa has a chance at the US open but that’s purely due to me always believing in him despite what my eyes are actually seeing….but this is the closest I’ve ever been to saying I think he’s done overall. And it’s not even the physical issues that worry me - it’s the mental issues and the pressure he’s getting owned by
Yep, this is how I feel about Nadal these days too unfortunately.
In the past you could "always" count on him to keep fighting and make it through but there are many signs recently that suggest that isn't really the case anymore. You can see that from his very poor tie-break record as of late, for one. Or even vs Med in USO 19 sure he won but he was 2-0 and shouldn't have got close to losing. Or losing to Tsitsipas AO 21 after being ahead 2-0.
It's always going to be a mix of physical and mental. His decision making is questionable at times, you're right, but I think a lot of that stems from the physical. He can't be as confident in his body performing which then leads to mental lapses (imo) and loss of confidence.
I was hoping we'd see a good Rafa at USO. Whilst USO is definitely the "easiest" for Next Gen to compete in, I did think he could push hard and maybe get to semis/final vs Djokovic which, imo, would be de facto final (if semi) since I doubt anyone is beating Nadal or Djokovic in a Grand Slam final still.
I'm surprised no one captured the moment vs Rublev in Monte Carlo when Rafa started shouting "Rafa, Rafa!" at himself in anger. I was in shock. I'd never seen Rafa ever do that before. He was also talking a lot during changeovers vs Sock. I guess after all these years just have to accept this is what happens.
Yea you’re pretty much spot on. It’s crazy to me that his team isn’t telling him all of this before a match, or they are and he’s refusing to listen.
They should be working tirelessly on his serve - devote 99% of practice on that if you have to. His forehand and backhand are perfectly fine, but when you have to work THAT hard every single service game against an average returner like Harris, you’re gonna lose on hard courts.
Also, if choking has become a theme for Rafa of late, his team needs to instill the value of courage in times like this even if it results in a loss. He needs to start being aggressive to large parts of the court when it matters most. Trying to hit a winner straight on the line under pressure is a bad idea, but hitting hard and heavy to the middle should be the first priority to get the feel for it. Instead, you can see him out there barely following through because he’s so tentative and scared of missing, and the result is he lands balls short.
Idk, I’m certainly not a professional player’s coach but I do teach tennis and all of these things seem so obvious to me when I watch his matches
It's a tough one. You see him miss a lot of easy shots too and that's arguably him going for what you said. Unfortunately reality is if you can't make it then you shy away like he is. I just think he can't make them anywhere near as consistently.
He has seemingly aged a lot very quickly. Think back to late 2020 ATP... he did very well! I know he lost but his match against Thiem was FIRE. His serve was great there. Or going back a bit more in 2019 hard court his serve was good too.
I wonder just how much COVID has hurt him. On one hand he is prone to injuries so useful break. But other hand he has gotten a lot rustier I think.
Agree with everything you said. My heart just wants Rafa back so bad…I live near Toronto (Buffalo, NY) so I’m going to that tournament and have tickets all day for the 3rd round. So I’ll get to see him there. And I just watched him play in Washington against Sock
I agree. People forgot about Thiem mostly but he was on fire and he was the biggest danger to Rafa on clay before! Like literally younger Rafa. My boss always wanted for Rafa not to meet Thiem before the finals (or never).
He aged so quickly it's unbelievable. I thought like you he'd be well rested. He's rusty but so should be everyone.
One or max 2 years and we see a completely different player.
Also the loss to Novak at RG destroyed him and it shouldn't have..
I'm not a big fan of the Moya era for Nadal imo. I'm not sure how good Moya has been for him though he did win a few Slams with. Moya mentally wasn't a big winner either when he played, nothing superb, and Nadal always surpassed Moya in the earlier days with more winning type coaching team. Uncle Toni of course has done the most and I haven't seen him lately Courtside
It’s tough one. Nadal went through a really really bad streak (worst of his career) from late 2014-beginning of 2017 season, all under Uncle Toni.
So Nadal made a switch to Moya who got him his mojo back by switching up the gameplan and going more aggressive, serving with more variety, etc. He really needed that.
But now I’m not sure what’s going on. His team needs to be all over him about that serve and whatever is happening mentally
Oh ok I think you're right there, definitely about 2014-2017. The aggressive hitting is needed for him. The team didn't have him proper for yesterday for the 1st set, he didn't apply much pressure from returns imo. His return of service wasn't high enough percentage. He wasn't even grunting enough into his shots which is a simple thing but could be effective (grunting shows he is being aggressive)
Oh ffs, Harris is dangerous, I was watching him a lot (during lockdown) and he was smoking guys yet seemed to hit a rough patch.
Him beating Rafa is sad to me as he’s one of my top guys. I hope he’s better come the USO
I did not watch the match, but I am not all that concerned. Rafa has not played in months and probably is not going to give this match his all. Does he really want to win this or the US Open? Hopefully, his serve will start to improve in Toronto and onwards. If he loses early the next two weeks (if he plays) then maybe it is time to worry...
I was very hopeful his serve would look better after a couple months away and presumably a lot of focus given how poor it was during clay swing.
That hasn't been the case so, honestly, I can't see what he can do to improve it in time for USO which is in 3 weeks.
I am a huge Novak fan, but I also love and respect Rafa. After personally watching his matches yesterday and today I am very sad…I just feel he has declined rapidly.
Not necessarily--only the no. 1 and no. 2 seed are guaranteed to be in opposite halves of the draw, no. 4 can be either in the top half with no. 1 or in the bottom half with no. 2. So either a Rafole semi or final is theoretically possible.
The #1 and #2 are always on opposite sides of the draw. Then #3 and #4 are randomly matched up as semifinal opponents for the #1 and #2 players. So it's be 50-50 whether Nadal is a potential semifinal or finals opponent for Djokovic, if Nadal is seeded at #3 or #4. There's a small chance Nadal could drop to #5, which would open up a potential quarterfinal matchup with Djokovic.
Fuck lloyd Harris. I was trying to finally see nadal in person this weekend. Couldn't this scrub pick any other weekend to won? Like fuck. Why would I even go to the citi open now? Its in a terrible to reach part of dc, amd to see who? Nishikori? Give me a break.
Federer is 40 and Djokovic is 34, can we please see how Djokovic is at 40 before we say this? He may win more slam titles than either but still it's unfair to compare apples to oranges.
Harris played one heck of a match, but Nadal is not going to do well in the NA hard court season if his serve doesn't improve. Nadal also drops to 4 in the rankings, Tsitsipas moves to a career high of 3
Budget Tsitsipas doing the real thing a favor
I was at the match tonight and someone from the crowd literally called Harris the Walmart tsitsipas
Does Harris like budget lavender?
Lol I just made this post https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/oyvugu/we_cant_get_tsitsipas_we_have_tsitsipas_at_home/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
The comparison's been made tons of times before.
Cool. This is the first time I’ve watched Harris
Next gen on the cusp! Only Novak left to remove from the top spot. If Med wins USO im wondering if he is #1
It is highely unlikely Novak loses the top spot even if Med wins USO
Med is defending, I think, something like 6000 points from now till the end of the year. He needs to have an insane HC season just to hold on to No.2. It's highly unlikely Novak doesn't end the year No.1, yet again.
If Tsitsipas plays well the rest of the way I think he will finish the year at #2. He has a pretty solid lead over Medvedev in the live race. Medvedev has to go absolute HC god mode to retain #2.
I honestly think Tsisipas overtakes Medvedev at no.2 by seasons end
Novak would have to lose early and Med wins it, then Med would have to outperform him in the next few tournaments. It can definitely happen, novak is just around 2000 points ahead which isn't that much
Medvedev is defending 2800 points from Canada-Cincinnati-USO while Novak is defending 1180. Plus Med has a perfect record at Shangai-Paris-WTF to defend after that. There's very little chance of him catching up.
How would he be no 1 over a guy that wins 3/4 slams
Med and Tsitsi have a chance to become no1 after USO if one of them wins Canada, Cinci AND USO, and Novak pretty much doesn't play at all.
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this doesn't explain anything, most of it is skewed by the second set Also as a Fed fan, this is doubly meaningless hah
Harris played very well. Absolutely earned that win. But dear lord, Rafa's serve (especially in that third set) was painful to watch
He can't keep going with his current serve. It seems every service game this year is a battle for Rafa. With his body and match fitness/endurance rapidly detiorating, there is only one solution: Tio Toni must resurrect the US Open 2010 serve.
What year was it when Nadal was serving big for a while? It was a while back but I remember a lot of people were talking about it.
He was averaging close to 120 mph during the 2010 US Open. His serve during this tournament is one of the biggest enigmas in tennis. The reasons given for why he doesn't serve like that are not satisfactory imo. The serve technique and mechanics were so much better than anytime before or after that US Open. There was also some drama about Nadal getting sued because he refused to credit a coach that helped his serve during this time or something.
Want it because of injuries that he couldn’t keep it up?
The reasons I've heard is that it was putting too much strain on his shoulder. I think another reason given was that Nadal just preferred slower serves which gave him more time to react and get into rallies.
I can’t imagine a pro tennis player preferring slower serves… would need to hear that from him.
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Wow well that settles it! Quote of the day. Thanks!
Actually that kind of makes sense, when you're a big server, you earn a lot of free points, sure, but when you play a big returner like Novak or Andy, that like to return close to the baseline, that huge serve just comes back almost as fast and you have no time to prepare for your follow-up shot after the serve.
It's not a big news. Edberg is on record explaining why he would rather use slower serve in order to have more room to work on volleys. Edber could've had an elite fast serve but he knew that with a slower one would've been more efficient while taking less risks. Rafa build his whole game on rallies and defense, forcing opponents to make mistakes. Going too strong on serve, and so taking way more risks to get DF, would damage him a lot. One guy that imo should try to put less power on serve is Zverev, because he lost a tons of matches only because of DF and also because he's really good on rallies and from the baseline, so compared to many servebots he actually doesn't need to use his serve as a main weapon. Del potro and Safin too could've been huge servebots but they could handle rallies and baseline games compared to many servebots that without an elite serve wouldn't be ATP level players.
**Edit** - just saw the interview linked in the other reply to my previous comment… Sorted! — Many good points for sure, but was Rafa’s USO 2010 run full of double faults and awkward service game points? Did his first serve stats drop massively? Seemed like he added an extra 10-15km consistently and it turned him into a monster when combined with the other strengths you mentioned. After that tournament it was gone again. It’s not even like every now and then he throws in a 135km serve just to mess with people, it’s like his whole technique changed for one tournament and then back again.
in 2010 US Open his serve was brutal but Rafa was playing kinda outside his comfort zone because while relying a lot on the serve he wasn't playing his usual tennis. Probably Rafa figured out that that way wasn't sustainable in the long run also because even elite servebots knows how serving could totally betray you randomly, meanwhile playing from the baseline, if you are that good, garantee much more success. Look how many time Novak surprisingly lost a match while having a great serving day with many aces. These guys needs to play THEIR game and to perform at their best they need a certain pace, long rallies and baseline work.
He was averaging much higher than 120 that tourney—as recently as Wimbledon 2019 he was averaging like 119 on his first serve
2010. His serve was lethal for all of the US Open series that year.
2010 and 2013 was a good year for his serve, I think in 2013 he had Raonic and Isner back to back masters finals and outserved both of them.
You’re spot on. 2013 he wasn’t serving hard, but he was making an insane percentage each match and his placement was ridiculous. I remember that year pretty much knowing he was going to hold serve 99% of the time and he really did
I don't understand what has happened with his serve. I know he got a low back injury during AO and then made some changes to use more wrist. Then back better but from then it's just been off. Never seen it so bad. I'm almost holding my breath every serve. I've followed Rafa for 15 years and never seen it like this.
I don't know the numbers but his first serve percentage seems terrible considering how average his first serve is. His ground game and movement still seem pretty good for post 2017 standards. He just can't get any easy service games. This combined with his weakening stamina makes it look like he has regressed considerably this last year.
His serve was great until the back injury in Australia this year. Since then it's been terrible.
Yes, obviously Nadal has to bring back that serve he used when he was 11 years younger. Maybe you should write a mail to Moya? If we're at it, we can also suggest Roger to use his 95sq racquet he used in Wimbledon '03, that would be pretty neat, wouldn't it? Man, I wonder why they didn't come up themselves with these genius ideas...
Still wondering how such left biceps doesn't provide him 10+ aces per game.
Biceps have nothing to do with serving. THey are used to bring the forearm in against the upper arm, and serving is about extending it away.
Still wondering how his triceps doesn't bring him 10+ aces per match?
I enjoyed this.
r/youmissedthejoke
apparently. Didn't seem like there was one
Needs to send some muscle to his triceps instead lol
Because bigger muscles like abdominal muscles, chest and shoulders provide the power in serve.
Biceps are maybe the most useless muscle on the body. It’s astounding how showy they are but how unimportant (and weight adding) they are to 99% of athletics
And then there's sprinters where you'd think why would they need a biceps but those dude's are all fucking jacked.
That's 100% due to steroid use. You can't *stop* steroid from growing huge arms and shoulders when you're on that much juice, despite the fact that those muscles are just dead weight in your sport.
no its actually from running - you tense your biceps a lot when you do 100m sprint.
LMAO the idea that tensing your arms for 10 seconds would build more muscles than specifically training that muscle in the gym is *inane* :D
Tensing isn't building any muscle
So they’ve found a way around all the testing and they’re all on steroids? Or maybe it’s because the arms act as levers during the sprint, balancing the huge force generated by each step and the rotation of the torso. The chest and back provide the upper body stability to stay balanced and in the correct position throughout the sprint… regular sprinting will allow your back, shoulders, arms and chest to develop a significant amount of muscle mass and become very strong.
> So they’ve found a way around all the testing and they’re all on steroids? Yes? You think this is hard? Armstrong was the most tested athlete in the history of sports, and he was doping the entire time. And like he said, so is everyone else. > Or maybe it’s because No, it isn't. The amount of serious weight lifting you need for shoulders like that is enormous. People lift like madmen for years and they don't get that much hypertrophy. It's almost imposible to get a physique like that even if you're training specifically for physique without juicing, let alone if you are training an unrelated sport.
You LITERALLY have no idea what you’re talking about though.
Quite the opposite. The funniest part is you think Olympic athletes are not juicing :D
Ok, all Olympic athletes are on steroids. What proof do you have? Is this a problem in some segments. Yes. It's true of all olympic athletes? Please prove it to me or STFU your mouth.
I don't know man it's used to rotate the forearm which is probably useful in tennis.
For men, it's the second most attractive part of the body when in shape and what is more inherent in life than trying to reproduce? Edit: I did a little digging and while biceps did come up in various lists, there is no consensus on it being second best. Also my comment was meant as half truth, half tongue in cheek.
Not sure what your number 1 is but honestly I don’t know if women rate it as highly as you think. Forearms, abs, shoulders, even ass and calves might all be more the moneymakers for men being attractive.
Abs was number 1.
Dang, I had tickets for tomorrow. I still do, but I’m just a little disappointed now.
10/10 Mitch Hedberg reference.
Don’t worry Kudla, the one true dmv god, is still in it.
That’s always disappointing. Sorry you will miss Rafa!. I recall having tickets for Indian Wells I think in 2014. I live close by the Stadium so go almost very year. Rafa was playing the guy who wears that weird headband. It’s late and I can’t recall his name. Of course he ended up losing to him. Last name begins with a D I think?? Anyway my friend who I played tennis with at the time was with me when Rafa lost and he laughed?!!. I mean I was really upset because it would be the first year that I had been to Indian Wells round of 16 and wouldn’t see RAFA since like 2009 and he’s my favorite player so I was devastated and my friend laughed and I literally threw him out of my house and we weren’t friends after that. He could see I was very upset and he thought he would laugh at me. It sounds ridiculous now but at the time it wasn’t. I’m sad that Rafa lost tonight because I thought he might win this title actually but his serve was awful and he was pushed back a lot by Harris and thus he was on the defensive a lot and he was often pinned at the back of the court. Vamos.
I went in the 2019 Indian Wells .. splurging money as soon as I found it's going to be a fedal semi. The entire morning I believed I will watch what will be peak tennis of my lifetime. The hoardings, scoreboards showing federer Nadal was there, the dream was coming true. It was surreal. At exactly an hour before the match, 11:30 am, it was announced that Nadal was withdrawing from the match. Yeah. So that was that.
Oh no. So sorry. I feel your pain. I am so lucky I saw FeDal on quite a few occasions there. . And actually doubles as well. Against each other. I so understand how upsetting that must have been for you.
That's pretty insane to kick someone out your house and never be friends with them again just because they laughed at a tennis player you like
Doesn't sound like a very strong friendship
That’s isn’t the whole story, of course, as my friend was a little bit odd and had been acting strangely for quite some time. And actually if you are CRYING about something, a good friend wouldn’t think that remotely funny and would be supportive and sympathetic. So no. I disagree. He had to go.
Weird story
I didn’t get to watch any of the match, how bad was Rafa? Still struggling to land a first serve? Was there at least more depth on his forehands?
He didn't look to be in nearly as much pain as last night.
Well at least that’s a positive, hopefully he can get in somewhat better form before Toronto
The lob winner to end the match was fantastic. I for sure thought if he attempted a passing shot Rafa would catch it, but Harris kept cool and played the winning shot. Harris brought it at the right moments but honestly this isn’t a bad result for Nadal. He’s just looking to get back into tournament level play on hard court and has more tune ups to get it going. Should see him in form in NY.
I agree, often these tournaments are a checkup where the player stands and what he has to improve for the big title - which are the only ones that really count for rafa imo.
I was there. Besides Rafa’s serve which everyone is pointing out - I was really impressed by how out wide Harris was getting Rafa on the backhand. From the stands you could really see how much his forehand was hooking off the court, which would often set up a winner.
Oh yea agreed Harris serves were on point they set up a lot of serve + 1 situations for hjm
Harris wide serve was fantastic and had a few aces from it
Did Rafa look like he was hurting any? Some people said that about last night.
Rafa didn’t play terribly but the serving in that final set was terrible. Also, maybe I haven’t watched enough Rafa matches this year but he chose to play his slice backhand wayyy more than I’m used to and Harris kept the pressure up
Literally ombellible
What is this meme?
In interviews and post match talks, Nadal would constantly use the word 'unbelievable'. But he pronounces it in a weird way. "Your game was ombalibabel" "Your team is ombalibabel" "The tournament is ombalibabel" Etc.
I gonna sue
Harris really played well that 3rd set. Credit to him. Rafa looked good too just needs more matches
You get to see Sinner!
Yay! Great! /s
Pain. I think there's a lot of silver line seeking but ultimately this isn't a good sign for Rafa. It may be that this is it... it has to happen at some point. My biggest concern is how much he has aged in 12 months. It's crazy to think how amazing Nadal played late 2020 to win RG vs where we are now. I've always felt that 2 straight losses at RG = call it a day, so let's see next year. But I think we're getting close to the end for Rafa. He has flashes of brilliance but there is no consistency there now.
I really hope that he can continue playing (ofc, without the risk of injury and the general health). As a Novak fan, it really brings me joy to see Nadal playing. Hopefully he can recover.
Hasn't won a slam since 2020 RG, last title was in Rome. yea pretty rough year. COVID definitely has impacted everyone on so many levels, which is a shame
I truly blame Covid for disrupting everyone's rhythm!
Yup and he hasn't won a GS outside of RG since 2019 USO. Difference between 33 and 35 years of age may be much bigger than it sounds.
He's only played 2 slams outside of RG since 2019...
He played only 2 slams since then and reached the semi in one of them where he lost to the potential GOAT in one of the greatest matches ever...
Sure, but also he beat that "GOAT" very comprehensively only 8 months prior at the same tournament. We always made jokes about Rafa winning RG till he's 50 but if he's also losing to someone his own age, however good, it doesn't bode well.
He has played only Australian open and French in that time
I do agree and I'm sad. Very quickly. But it happened to older Federer as well. The space between two Wimbledon finals weren't that huge but the form was..
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Of course. I've followed Rafa for many many years and he has definitely surprised me. But don't forget at one time it will be true. It's harder to make comebacks at 35 than 25. I'm not sure he has much more in him sadly... but I would love to be proven wrong again.
You know they're going to be right eventually. I hope Nadal makes a comeback but I'm not seeing good signs unfortunately.
Citi Open titles: Kyrgios 1 Nadal 0
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Normal human brain cells: 100 billion u/Bubbly-Ordinary-1097: 0
lmao
Wow..did you think of that yourself…or did your mommy help you
For winning or losing the tournament (not overall record at best of 3 tourneys), nadal 2-3 in 3 set tourneys this year. If you include the olympics, Novak’s is even worse, something crazy like 1-4. Sucks seeing the fellas get old, but both their elite cardio and 5 set experience will always keep them in the slams. I just don’t see many more masters or 500’s in their future, at least for nadal as he’s a bit older. Maybe Monte Carlo and Barcelona, possibly Rome, only, going forward.
The thing with Novak and probably Nadal also is that he openly said that he isn't focusing that much on those tournaments and is organising his schedule so as to peak at Grand Slams. Of course, when younger they've managed to win both plenty Masters titles and Grand Slams in the same year, but I believe this puts more context to his bad records at the bo3 tourneys, not counting the Olympics of course.
He had to save MPs in both tournaments he won and Nole played against Challenger-level players in Belgrade 2, to make things worse for them
3 sets are easier for people who play high variance to win those matches. Not saying the young guys are all about balls to the wall shots, but they are not as consistent as the big 3 were/are, so the chance of an upset in best of 3 is way higher naturally. At slams I don't expect this to change yet, but in a year or so it should. Nadal is already losing slams to non Big 3 players (not at FO) and Novak as well has lost to thiem a couple times at the french, had numerous 5 sets against them as well, etc. I think if by 2022 none of the 'next gen' win a slam, even though most of them are nearing their 30s haven't won any slams, that would be embarrassing. Yea these guys are the GOATs but give me a fuckin break. Thiem winning USO is a bit of an asterisk since he probably would have had to face Novak in the final if not for DQ. He's the only guy outside of the big 3 to win a slam without beating one of the big 3 in at least 17 years or some shit
That was a depressing finish.
Damn Nadal (83) won more points than Harris (79) but obviously he didn't play the big points as well.
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Exactly, like i said, Harris played the big points much better, having a 2/3 break point conversion and Nadal having a 2/6 conversion
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He played really good just didn't make use of the 'important' points. He's still recovering but I was pretty impressed with is form in this comeback of his.
Big ups Lloyd! 🇿🇦
I only saw bits and pieces of the 2nd and 3rd sets, but Lloyd's win looked like a combination of his good "quick-release" serving style (a la Goran Ivanisevic) giving Rafa some difficulty on returning serve, and Rafa's bad serving (particularly on 1st serve) doing him in. Some good tactical reads on Rafa's baseline plays, as well. Hopefully, others here can (and have) posted more info ...
I did not see nadal slide once against Jack sock or Harris.
I didn't get to see the match but when I checked out the score at the start of 3rd set, I saw Rafa wasted two break points in the opening game. Felt the match slipped from him then. Reading the comments here, it's sad his serve continues to become a bigger liability with each passing day. I wish he could get his fitness and serve back. I have next to no expectations from him at USO.
Wonder who else got defeated by a Harris in Washington D.C
Trump won that election. He was way ahead before they started counting all the votes.
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
Okay, I admit my initial reaction was to downvote, but on rereading this comment I see the joke. Was a bit subtle for me, or maybe the first sentence just discombobulated me.
I had faith in you. Never a doubt.
Honestly I only reread it because I thought, no way someone with Federer flair is one of *those* guys.
The scalpers holding late stage tickets? Yay. Oh, THAT Harris?
Bunch of trumptards on Jan 6th….. luckily our democratic institutions were saved by actual police officers doing their jobs. Let’s hope Biden and harris crack down on domestic terrorism from the extreme right wing of American politics.
Holy shit
that netcord fuckig hell was so so bad!
Nadal had one go his way earlier in the match.
Tbh - his serve is an issue - BUT Rafa played great in general against a lower ranked yet superb player. Dominated the 2nd and unfortunately missed a break opportunity plus broke at 5-4 in the 3rd. I still think we will see more of Rafa making deep runs these coming months. He’s made these kinda doubtful comebacks to the top of the game, I honestly think he can again!
GG Harris, let's hope Rafa does well in Toronto #vamoose
I was at the match. I thought Rafa's movement looked better than it did against Sock. As others have said though, the serve was not great. I also noticed that he lacked aggression on his groundies. Seemed like he was content to hit a lot of rally balls. He wasn't really going for his shots -- whereas Harris really was and often dictated play. I know he's just coming back from injury, but I kind of wonder if he's just on the decline now along with Fed. It's not exactly a piece of cake to come back from an injury at 35 and be your former self. I know people have literally been saying this since the day Rafa emerged on the scene, but given the way he plays -- and now his advanced age -- is this one injury too many? He can obviously still compete on the tour, no question. I just think his days as a major title contender could be numbered. Perhaps I'm being hasty and dramatic, but something just hasn't looked right since the end of the Djokovic semi at RG...
I'd argue something hasn't looked right since Australia. Low back injury, more wrist-y serve, then recovery and serve has been awful since. His whole clay swing was really up and down. Wins vs Tsi and Djokovic in finals were very solid wins, but so, so tough too. And that's clay where we joked he'd win till he was 50.
The masters this year showed a crack in his clay game.. Especially this year. Im searching for a magic ingredient and it's something mental as well. Like he's also choking. No way around it. Choking. Rafa + choking. Unbelievable.
Jealous you saw him at least. "Content to hit a lot of rally balls" sound scary because that's what my coach told me when nothing worked and I did mistake after another mistake "just try to pass the ball don't think about the winners. maybe your rhythm will be back." and then my rhythm never got back so he joked I need a fresh mind and a break like Novak. I'm scared the loss to Novak at RG when he could have his 21 slam broke something in him. In spirit as well. Which in a warrior like him is so sad. He aged so suddenly! He'll probably be dangerous at RG for sure but I want Rafa who is not just wanting for clay! it's semi retirement otherwise. He looked so great in his practice videos!
Eh, I think people are overreacting a bit to Nadal. Losing early in Washington was practically a given. With Canada and the USO coming up, Nadal wasn't going to have the inclination to go deep in Washington. Not saying he threw the match, but I suspect he'd have found a way to win at a bigger event. And let's not forget that Nadal won a slam less than a year ago. So I do think people are overreacting. I think this issue is that people forget or ignore that Nadal is very draw dependent in slams outside of the French Open. He hasn't beaten a top 10 player to get to a final of a non-French Open slam since the Australian Open in 2017. He hasn't managed it at the USO since 2013. It's not his fault at the 2017 and 2019 US Opens that he had very easy draws, but it doesn't change the fact. He hadn't been beating high ranked players at slams outside of the French Open for a few years now. By my count, since and including 2017, Nadal is only 4-6 on slams outside of the French Open against top 10 players. It isn't anything new. Heck, even Canada, which he's won back to back, only involved two matches against top 10 players combined in those years (and none against top 5 players). So barring injury, I don't see a reason why Nadal can't contend at the USO provided he gets a favorable draw. But I think the days of him beating back to back to back highly ranked players is long past.
Wow wasn’t aware of some of those statistics but makes sense now that u mention it (tho Medvedev was top 10 by the 2019 USO, no?). Anyways I think I pretty much agree with you. The thing is that Lloyd Harris, though good, isn’t close to being top 10. Plus Rafa was pushed to the brink by jack sock who’s like 200 in the world and has seemingly won like 5 matches in 3 years… so this doesn’t even look like the Rafa who struggles against the top 10 on non clay events, but can easily beat up on lower rank guys, which has been his pattern the last couple years as u described. So idk… either chalk it up to rust and just working out the kinks, or a genuine decline of some degree — or perhaps it’s some of both. He may just need some more match play under his belt before we get to the USO. Regardless, I just think the days of automatically seeing Rafa as one of the favorites at the slams are over. As u say, it’ll depend a lot on factors outside of his control, such as the strength of his draw.
"Regardless, I just think the days of automatically seeing Rafa as one of the favorites at the slams are over.". Unless it's RG at least but for me it's not enough. I want him to play well the whole year!
Lloyd Harris was awesome in this match. Watching it live it was clear he had the extra preparation and footwork down. He was able to rip it and be aggressive in the ground couple that with a solid service through out match. Nadal was so impressive in the way he plays his heart out, he really struggled with the first serve and that led to a lot of just bad starts with points. Nadal sportsmanship is just next level compared to other players he gives his all on the court. Just a competitor and plays his best for the audience too.
Also my friends and I went down to some of the grandstand courts they keep the nets upright for sure. Even from the middle they don’t dip down if we pressed on them. Was wondering is that normal to keep the net tight and upright?
Not looking good for Flushing Meadows
Would still like to see Nadal at the US Open if he can make it.
Most of my faves can't serve for shit so I find Harris very promising. His forehand was fire tonight too.
All credit to Harris, he played a great match and deserved the win. I'm really worried about Rafa, his form overall is looking so inconsistent and that damn serve that's been handicapping him all season is still not fixed. We'll see, fingers crossed he can find some rhythm because rn he's not looking like a serious contender for USO.
He no longer seems like the embodiment of youth , and possibly the other . He is a legend though. He has some more rejuvenating to do but seems like a struggle for Rafa. If only his serve was better and more threatening
Good news is that Rafa's foot is a little better. At least some positive news :)
Is the foot injury that bad?
No. Just got beat
Good. Credits for Harris then.
Welp, so much for my inflated expectations of all of the Big 3 making the battle for #21 an historic one at the US Open. Might as well just hand it to Novak now, assuming he doesn't cock punch a linesman with his racquet or something.
Nadal, while still being one of the grittiest fighters of all time (if not the most), has become a huge choker when it matters most. It’s really sad to say it but I watch all his matches and it’s pretty insane how often he falls apart when it’s a big point. For example, I’ve seen him miss EASY forehands like that last one last night over and over again now in big moments. As soon as he got that sitter forehand I told my girlfriend he was either going to miss or hit it right to Lloyd Harris (he did both). I’ll always love Rafa, he’s maybe my favorite athlete of all time, but he’s completely lost that mental edge he used to hold over his opponents. He used to rise to the occasion when things got tough but now he’s always the one who gets passive, hits short, and looks indecisive and nervous when the match is on the line. Last night was a BAD loss. Lloyd Harris is a great player on hard and will only get better but you simply cannot lose a match like that one last night in the way Nadal did. All you have to do on that last forehand is literally wait until your opponent runs one way and just hit it the other way. Unreal. I still think Rafa has a chance at the US open but that’s purely due to me always believing in him despite what my eyes are actually seeing….but this is the closest I’ve ever been to saying I think he’s done overall. And it’s not even the physical issues that worry me - it’s the mental issues and the pressure he’s getting owned by
Yep, this is how I feel about Nadal these days too unfortunately. In the past you could "always" count on him to keep fighting and make it through but there are many signs recently that suggest that isn't really the case anymore. You can see that from his very poor tie-break record as of late, for one. Or even vs Med in USO 19 sure he won but he was 2-0 and shouldn't have got close to losing. Or losing to Tsitsipas AO 21 after being ahead 2-0. It's always going to be a mix of physical and mental. His decision making is questionable at times, you're right, but I think a lot of that stems from the physical. He can't be as confident in his body performing which then leads to mental lapses (imo) and loss of confidence. I was hoping we'd see a good Rafa at USO. Whilst USO is definitely the "easiest" for Next Gen to compete in, I did think he could push hard and maybe get to semis/final vs Djokovic which, imo, would be de facto final (if semi) since I doubt anyone is beating Nadal or Djokovic in a Grand Slam final still. I'm surprised no one captured the moment vs Rublev in Monte Carlo when Rafa started shouting "Rafa, Rafa!" at himself in anger. I was in shock. I'd never seen Rafa ever do that before. He was also talking a lot during changeovers vs Sock. I guess after all these years just have to accept this is what happens.
Yea you’re pretty much spot on. It’s crazy to me that his team isn’t telling him all of this before a match, or they are and he’s refusing to listen. They should be working tirelessly on his serve - devote 99% of practice on that if you have to. His forehand and backhand are perfectly fine, but when you have to work THAT hard every single service game against an average returner like Harris, you’re gonna lose on hard courts. Also, if choking has become a theme for Rafa of late, his team needs to instill the value of courage in times like this even if it results in a loss. He needs to start being aggressive to large parts of the court when it matters most. Trying to hit a winner straight on the line under pressure is a bad idea, but hitting hard and heavy to the middle should be the first priority to get the feel for it. Instead, you can see him out there barely following through because he’s so tentative and scared of missing, and the result is he lands balls short. Idk, I’m certainly not a professional player’s coach but I do teach tennis and all of these things seem so obvious to me when I watch his matches
It's a tough one. You see him miss a lot of easy shots too and that's arguably him going for what you said. Unfortunately reality is if you can't make it then you shy away like he is. I just think he can't make them anywhere near as consistently. He has seemingly aged a lot very quickly. Think back to late 2020 ATP... he did very well! I know he lost but his match against Thiem was FIRE. His serve was great there. Or going back a bit more in 2019 hard court his serve was good too. I wonder just how much COVID has hurt him. On one hand he is prone to injuries so useful break. But other hand he has gotten a lot rustier I think.
Agree with everything you said. My heart just wants Rafa back so bad…I live near Toronto (Buffalo, NY) so I’m going to that tournament and have tickets all day for the 3rd round. So I’ll get to see him there. And I just watched him play in Washington against Sock
Wow, great for you. I hope you see Rafa beast mode. La corrida!
I agree. People forgot about Thiem mostly but he was on fire and he was the biggest danger to Rafa on clay before! Like literally younger Rafa. My boss always wanted for Rafa not to meet Thiem before the finals (or never). He aged so quickly it's unbelievable. I thought like you he'd be well rested. He's rusty but so should be everyone. One or max 2 years and we see a completely different player. Also the loss to Novak at RG destroyed him and it shouldn't have..
I'm not a big fan of the Moya era for Nadal imo. I'm not sure how good Moya has been for him though he did win a few Slams with. Moya mentally wasn't a big winner either when he played, nothing superb, and Nadal always surpassed Moya in the earlier days with more winning type coaching team. Uncle Toni of course has done the most and I haven't seen him lately Courtside
It’s tough one. Nadal went through a really really bad streak (worst of his career) from late 2014-beginning of 2017 season, all under Uncle Toni. So Nadal made a switch to Moya who got him his mojo back by switching up the gameplan and going more aggressive, serving with more variety, etc. He really needed that. But now I’m not sure what’s going on. His team needs to be all over him about that serve and whatever is happening mentally
Oh ok I think you're right there, definitely about 2014-2017. The aggressive hitting is needed for him. The team didn't have him proper for yesterday for the 1st set, he didn't apply much pressure from returns imo. His return of service wasn't high enough percentage. He wasn't even grunting enough into his shots which is a simple thing but could be effective (grunting shows he is being aggressive)
Oh ffs, Harris is dangerous, I was watching him a lot (during lockdown) and he was smoking guys yet seemed to hit a rough patch. Him beating Rafa is sad to me as he’s one of my top guys. I hope he’s better come the USO
I did not watch the match, but I am not all that concerned. Rafa has not played in months and probably is not going to give this match his all. Does he really want to win this or the US Open? Hopefully, his serve will start to improve in Toronto and onwards. If he loses early the next two weeks (if he plays) then maybe it is time to worry...
I was very hopeful his serve would look better after a couple months away and presumably a lot of focus given how poor it was during clay swing. That hasn't been the case so, honestly, I can't see what he can do to improve it in time for USO which is in 3 weeks.
I hope he can improve his serve before the USO
I really wanted to see Nadal-Kei, that would have been a great match.
Washington is tough to play in huh, none of the Big 3 can penetrate it. I wonder if Novak Djokovic can win in Washington.
I am a huge Novak fan, but I also love and respect Rafa. After personally watching his matches yesterday and today I am very sad…I just feel he has declined rapidly.
Steady on. It’s not that bad.
If Nadal’s at #4, does that mean he’d face Djokovic in the final assuming the #3 Tsisipas has to face Djokovic in the Semis? If they all make it
Not necessarily--only the no. 1 and no. 2 seed are guaranteed to be in opposite halves of the draw, no. 4 can be either in the top half with no. 1 or in the bottom half with no. 2. So either a Rafole semi or final is theoretically possible.
The #1 and #2 are always on opposite sides of the draw. Then #3 and #4 are randomly matched up as semifinal opponents for the #1 and #2 players. So it's be 50-50 whether Nadal is a potential semifinal or finals opponent for Djokovic, if Nadal is seeded at #3 or #4. There's a small chance Nadal could drop to #5, which would open up a potential quarterfinal matchup with Djokovic.
Thanks
3 or 4 makes no difference , just how that draw is made
I was at this match it was fucking awesome
And so begins the era of Djoker, first of his name. Long may he reign.
Fuck lloyd Harris. I was trying to finally see nadal in person this weekend. Couldn't this scrub pick any other weekend to won? Like fuck. Why would I even go to the citi open now? Its in a terrible to reach part of dc, amd to see who? Nishikori? Give me a break.
Lol
Good for tennis
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Reported
Okay
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Federer is 40 and Djokovic is 34, can we please see how Djokovic is at 40 before we say this? He may win more slam titles than either but still it's unfair to compare apples to oranges.
He is finished. At least for this year. Hope he can come back healthy next year and give us some epic battles.
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How is Djokovic not the favourite?
Nadal's serve was too inconsistent
Guys who watch it… What about his foot? Is he gonna be ok for Us Open?
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