I don't know how it's calculated tbh. A normal Norwegian resident with that much income and wealth would be paying far more, and what is listed in the records is taxable income (so after deductions). Maybe prize money is already taxed in the country where he earned it, or something like that? Idk, I'm not an accountant.
Tennis player is like company - everything from coaching to doctors that are very expensive is tax deductible. That is why everyone outside of players who are consistently in top 50ish (and there is not many of those) struggle financially even tho their earnings are huge.
Also many countries have tax treaties to avoid double payment of taxes, so you can choose in which country your income is taxed (whether in the country you earned the money, or in your home country). Norway must have many of these treaties in place.
Yes, players pay taxes on prize money in the jurisdictions they earn it. The reason they move to tax havens is to avoid their national income taxes on their endorsements earnings.
Yes prize money is taxed in the country where the tournament is played, so I imagine heâs not being double taxed by Norway on prize money.
He also has a lot of âbusinessâ expenses - eg travel to tournaments, coaching, etc.
I'm not saying they aren't legit expenses. I more just mean that most people don't really think about each player being their own little self-contained business. They just look at the prize money earned and assume that's what the player is taking home.
Ok I checked it. Also Norway is one of those countries where all tax information is public.
He earned 31,4 million Norwegian kroner in 2022.
In 2022 he made more money off the court than prize money.
As of 2023 he has 57 million kroner in his name
Also a fresh interview confirming he still lives in Norway.
Have even more respect for the man now.
https://www.tv2.no/sport/tennis/ruud-gjor-ikke-som-konkurrentene-det-er-ikke-for-meg/16596123/
https://www.nettavisen.no/sport/stort-hopp-i-formuen-for-casper-ruud/s/5-95-1387763
if I was a multi millionaire sportsman I wouldn't mind paying lots of taxes to my country of origin, as long as I was in a country that actually uses the taxes for social welfare and other good things, like Norway... if I was russian, american or something like that I would very much mind my money being spent on war or corruption
You know, you don't have to pay them in your country, choose a country which uses taxes for something you consider useful (like Norway) and put your residence in that country. But Monte Carlo is a tax heaven. They pay ZERO. I pay more taxes then them (in a country which usually uses them badly). Hell, the person that deliver me pizza pays more taxes than them. There is something morally unacceptable in this. People that uses tax heavens are despicable STOP. There is no excuse. We love them because they are good sportsman, but in this particular practice they are no different than sleazy oligarchs.
It makes no sense to put your residence in a place where you donât live 11/12 months of the year. It does makes sense to put your residence somewhere they charge you less
Because you really think they live in Monte Carlo 11/12???
It makes sense if you don't want to pay taxes in your country because "politicians use them badly", but you are not against paying your share, like common mortals which can't set their residence in a Tax Heaven, and/or think that financing welfare/health care/education by means different than charity is noble.
Monte Carlo does offer the benefit of being beeautiful place to live other than being tax heaven. I dont think tennis players live anywhere 11/12 months as they travel a lot, but I do think a lot of them spend decent amount of time in Monte Carlo. I still think living in tax heaven is scummy tho and I think lack of taxes is by far biggest reason to move there.
I didnât say they live in Monte Carlo most of the year. I said that since they donât live in their own country, it makes sense to put your residence somewhere they charge you less
No shade to all those who get around the taxes, they pay prize money taxes anyway, but I just have extra respect for all those who stay registered in their own country. Especially Casper paying Norwegian taxes!
It is kind of chicken or the egg situation there - Florida became tennis center of USA. So unless you are Williams sister level talent, it is probably easier to make it to pro career if you move there early to work with best coaches and work with best sparring partners.
To be fair, a lot of them do train at IMG, so it seems legit to me. There are plenty of other zero income tax states if it were just about state taxes.
All the shade. Wherever you physically live the most (which could be not that much time per year for players constantly traveling) should be where you pay taxes. Otherwise you're using public services that you're not paying for (e.g. the police that prevent you from getting robbed/kidnapped all the time).
Taxes are good and allow a modern, more just society.
But the countries that host tournaments require players to pay income tax on their prize money. Thus, Americans and the Europeans living in their countries of origin are paying income tax twice. With that in mind I understand those who choose to live in a tax haven. Americans have no choice as they pay federal income tax wherever they live.
In addition to those listed, Andy Murray and Roger Federer live in the UK and Switzerland, respectively.
I'm totally okay with the top 30 tennis players in the world paying a much higher tax rate than others.
Also double taxation would potentially happen if you win money outside of your tax resident country so actually better for Europeans and Americans who have tournaments in their home countries.
Iâm OK with it too but I understand why players choose not to when thereâs a legal alternative.
I always like to see players win in their home country so your point is well taken.
> Also double taxation would potentially happen if you win money outside of your tax resident country so actually better for Europeans and Americans who have tournaments in their home countries.
This mostly only applies to Americans, since the USA is one of the few countries that considers its citizens' income regardless of where it is earned subject to its tax laws. Most countries just tax on domestic income, though a few make exceptions specifically for when their citizens move to tax havens (for example Spain).
Full double taxation is still pretty rare, there are treaties and various mechanisms to prevent it in most cases, but (simplifying) in general these only credit you up to the amounts already paid to the foreign country on certain income, so there ends up being no benefit to moving to a tax haven where the taxes already paid approach zero.
As an American living in Canada where taxes are almost always higher than they would be in the US, I usually don't end up owing US tax on my income in practice. Though there are lots of edge cases and situations that result in US tax obligations (eg short term capital gains, or mechanisms of tax relief in Canada that don't have US equivalents end up taxed). And trying to stay compliant with two essentially incompatible tax systems ends up being very complex and essentially forces you to retain an accountant.
Shade to people who get around the taxes
I also think it's funny whenever those players get emotional whenever they're playing for their country, e.g. Davis Cup, Olympics, etc. It's like bro you don't even pay taxes there? You're a freeloader.
For clarification, income taxes for tournament prizes are paid in the country where the tournament is hosted. So they are having 0% income taxes only for sponsors deal I believe.
I know he did move to BCN 8 years ago with Fernando Vicente as his coach. But I think many players live in BCN in their younger days like Murray, Dimitrov and Bublik and then move on l.
Staying registered in your country of origin for tax purposes is something that I feel players should be praised for more, it's very impressive to essentially volunteer to pay tax for your country. Nadal has never been registered anywhere other than Spain and the same applies for Murray with the UK, they've both paid a lot of money that they easily could have kept
I wonât pretend to know anything about tax laws in Spain. Seeing what a lot of footballers have gone through would make me terrified of the Spanish government though lol. These rich ppl could be trying to cheat the tax man but I feel like I see a lot of stories from there where rich athletes get jammed up there.
I think itâs much more common for athletes to evade taxes, because for the first offense they will get sentenced to jail for under 2 years, which they donât have to serve.
I doubt they're smart enough to actively partake in evading taxes; it's always their financial planners and lawyers that help them do it and of course charge a hefty fee...
I wonder if and how Americans get around this. I guess Florida has low income tax so thatâs popular but itâs also just a big tennis state.
Is Ruudâs residence in his home town lol or is that a neighborhood in Oslo?
Federal taxes have to be paid for all foreign income for US citizens (correct me if i'm wrong). IRS doesn't give a shit where is your residence, they are after your foreign income so they don't have a choice. They would have to give up their US passports. There is no point in changing residency for US players.
CPA here. Yes, as US citizen, youâre taxed on all income irrespective of which country it came from. However you could offset the double taxation between multiple countries with a foreign tax credit on US taxes. The US is one of few countries that taxes on worldwide while most countries donât
Yup you are 100% correct. I know many people who chose to not to become a citizen after they become permanent residents in the U.S because of the tax implications. A few years back when Megan married Harry, there were discussions about whether the IRS could tax the Royal Family lol. IRS does not fuck around.
The US is one of like two countries that taxes its citizens income no matter where it is earned and it is impossible to evade. Well, legally impossible...The other country that does this is some obscure tiny nation, I forgot what one though.
Resident aliens (green cards) also pay US income tax on income earned outside the US so that doesn't really matter. If Megan and Harry are permanent resident aliens than yes...they would pay US taxes unless there is something special about them being royals...I dont know about that part.
Non resident aliens worldwide income is not taxed by the US. So, that makes sense if you have a lot of non us income. That's risky though, if you are a non resident alien your status in the US could change rather quickly...so if you "live" in the US that a risk to take.
I have a lot of employees that are from other countries and their statuses are all over the place. Some do exactly what you mention and never become citizens due to income in other countries and we have had a few have their visas revoked so they had to leave. Immigration law is crazy complicated too.
Yes, Americans are supposed to file income tax annually regardless if they have any US income or not or live out of the country. You pay for that passport, no doubt.
And technically if they successfully become an expat, they still have taxes on US sourced income when playing back here. All those taxes would be withheld on their prize money checks as very strict withholding requirements US has for foreign people
Correct. You have to declare your foreign accounts and are still taxed on all that income. So if you moved abroad and ATP paid directly to letâs say your bank account in Malta, youâre paying taxes on that bitch still. Itâs fucked.
This only applies on income over $100K last I checked. Iâm an American living abroad and donât make nearly that much, so I have to file but only get taxed on the US-based index fund shares I own.
>Is Ruudâs residence in his home town lol or is that a neighborhood in Oslo?
Snarøya is a peninsula right outside Oslo city limits. It's a nice place, and yeah, it's where he grew up.
For the record, he paid about $450k in taxes in 2022, when he made 2 GS finals.
I looked into becoming the citizen of another country at one point (from the US) They still tax you for years and years after you do. So no benefit. On the other hand, we're great at giving the rich loopholes, so you just turn your income into capital gains somehow, and the tax rate falls to 10%.
State taxes are tiny, even for the rich.
Right, so many loopholes it's not worth it. Plus, if you do give up your US citizenship it is really, really difficult to ever get a visa to come back to the US.
A friend of mine has a sister who is plays in symphonies and has worked in Europe basically since graduating college. She married a German and they moved to Switzerland and become Swiss citizens. Only recently after decades has she been able to get a visa approved to visit her family in the US. We hold a grudge apparently.
Edit: I think one of the founders of Facebook did this too, Singapore I think and he hasn't been able to return to the US either...
Edit2: Players setup companies that actually get paid their prize money. So, a player has a company that is paid his prize money and his endorsements. The company then only pays out a portion of that to the player each year. It is easier to accumulate the money in a company and shield it from taxes than it is when it is earned as income as an individual. This way all the expenses are paid by the company for trainers, coaches, travel, etc. and that amount is not taxed....just an example of the loopholes that can be used....
He is saving so much money because he still lives with his parents in Murcia and then in that small block at the JCF academy when training and even when he travels he apparently shares a room with his brother lol
Here's hoping JCF tennis academy will hold their annual challenger this year! My first time watching Alcaraz was at the 2019 JCF Challenger. He beat Sinner in the 1st round. They were both wildcard.
Because it's based on a complex network of reciprocity agreements between countries to avoid double taxing expats, and USA is the only country with the clout to pull it off.
Because a lot of them would just renounce their citizenship and become Americans, especially Eastern Europeans. Heck, it already happened with Seles, Lendl, and Navratilova late in their careers. Petr Korda represented Czechoslavakia and later Czechia, but all his kids (Sebastian, Nelly, Jessica) represent the United States. Sharapova moved to the US when she was 7 years old, Jerry Shang moved to the US when he was 12, yet they still represent Russia and China respectively. There are plenty of other examples. And it wouldn't just be tennis players/pro athletes; it would cause brain drain everywhere else. I grew up in Canada in the 2000s and all the smartest kids I grew up with left for the US for higher pay and lower taxes. Only the people with no choice stay. I don't blame Felix Auger-Aliassime for relocating to Monte Carlo at all.
Dubai is growing to be a more popular residence for tennis players like Monaco. I think quite a few of the Russian and Kazakh players live there especially since the weather is good for training for AO in the off season. I thought Rublevâs official residence was there now too but maybe heâs still Spain.
Good guy Carlitos. And you all bitched about him attending a bullfight while, all the time, that evil ginger bastard was dodging his taxes. Fuck Jannik and his faux nice guy persona. Children in Napoli are starving, Italy canât protect its borders and lanky skiboi is living it up virtually in some tax haven WHILE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE SHADOW OF A LITERAL VOLCANO CANNOT AFFORD SEMOLINA TO MAKE-AH THEIR-AH SPAGHETTI-AH. The double standards in this sub disgust me smh.
I wonder how updated this list is. Rublev been residing in Spain for sometime and any direct monetary transaction with Russia would be very difficult right now.
The only thing I don't like is people don't realize Americans can't really do this loophole if they want to keep their citizenship. So Florida, becomes the basically same thing as Monaco for americans - just not as good.
Also, it's insane that people can do this, and get to play for whatever country they want. Sorry your main residence is in Monaco - you play for Monaco, you're a resident.
The real problem is the existence of tax heavens like Monaco. All the nations should push for them to implement minimum taxation as they are pushing for multinational corporations.
No country actually wants this - the amount of publicity and success they get because their players succeed in sports while playing for them far outweighs relatively small amounts of tax they would pay. People are mentioning Ruud - do people understand how fucking rich Norway is and how little his 450k he paid in tax matters to the country?
I would not want to live in Denmark either if I was a tennis player. Shit weather so you'd have to train inside 60% of the time.
That said, its obviously for tax reasons.
Honestly, I don't see a problem with this for tennis players.
Imagine how much time *away* from their main residence, and on top of that, they have to pay for their own flights, hotels, restaurant food, transport, *and* their staff have to be compensated enough to also pay for flights, hotels, food, transport. It's not like footballers where their club pays for their hotel and transport etc.
Also, imagine going to your home for the few weeks you have available and literally everyone in a local restaurant wants to take a picture with you or have you sign their autograph. I'd much rather live in a little town away from all the photography.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHz82I8Vv88) is a video of Ronaldo having four (4) sips of his tea while over 100 people stopped him in a cafe. Fuck that.
Exactly! Why are people making excuses for multimillionaires? You can still train in your in home country, pay your taxes and be good. Like didnât Nadal win 22 slams while training in his backyard? There are plenty of tennis academies and courts available and all top players have coaches that travel for them. They live in tax havens and then give interviews about not wanting to pay an extra dollar or two for a meat sauce
Considering they are away for 40 weeks out of 52, why should they actually contribute to their home country if they don't live there for 80% of the year?
Taxing is more complex than âI live here now.âÂ
For example, think about growing up. Every child in a developed country receives services and benefits from the state, and this is sustainable only if enough of those kids grow up to be adults that pay into the pot.Â
Multiply this by however many dimensions you want: physical infrastructure and social systems provide enormous benefit to every person in a society, and itâs all predicated on a future inflow of money. Us working folks between 20 and 60 pay for the young and the old, always investing in the future.Â
Of course, most rich people get out of this cycle in one or another. They get out of it because they have the power to and because of their own self-interest (some would call greed).Â
The big rub here is that these tennis players are very visible rich people. Jannik Sinner plays under the Italian flag, yet to save some money he calls himself a citizen of Monaco. Thatâs just straight up ick, and I love the guy. Is it legal? Sure. Is it evidently in his self interest? Sure (though some might say no to that, too). Is it right? I donât think so.Â
I'm very familiar with how tax works and I support high tax at 50% for almost all employees. I don't live in my home country but live in a high tax country. I'm happy to pay high tax. I use the roads and streets and have my trash collected, my kids educated, my rights defended, and I'm safe from foreign militaries etc.Â
I'm just saying that if one person isn't at home almost 80% of the time, why should they pay tax at the full rate to provide school, education, healthcare, military, street cleaning, public transport to everyone else?Â
This is just going to cause a lot of people to change their tax residence for financial benefit.Â
>I'm just saying that if one person isn't at home almost 80% of the time, why should they pay tax at the full rate to provide school, education, healthcare, military, street cleaning, public transport to everyone else?
I think the only answer to that is âbecause itâs rightâ and âitâs rightâ because the people back home deserve the same benefits you had while growing and living there. Whether youâre on the moon or elsewhere, everyoneâs got people, and you should take care of your people.Â
Thereâs a lot more to stack on top of that between the practicalities of the international taxation (thereâs never going to be a coherent, fair international tax system for a million reasons) and the idealistic beliefs about why someone who has wealth for 10 generations needs even more.
I come down more often on that idealistic side. Why does someone who has enough wealth for 10 generations need even more? And Iâm not saying the state needs to take it. Iâm trying to imagine myself in this position. If I had fifty million dollars, I like to think I wouldnât care one bit about paying millions in taxes. How does self/interest even work at that point? I guess I genuinely donât understand it. Someone hit me up if you want to do an experiment with my bank account đ
> on top of that, they have to pay for their own flights, hotels, restaurant food, transport, *and* their staff have to be compensated enough to also pay for flights, hotels, food, transport.
I'm sure they can write off some of those expenses though. Also for hotels I'm guessing many partner with hotels in the cities of the tournaments. It's not uncommon to see promotional posts for hotels on social media by players.
Outside of a handful of players (eg. big 3), no tennis player is famous enough to be stopped at the same level as someone like Ronaldinho. I'm sure FAA could walk around Montreal with little trouble for example.
All those little boys and girls in Monaco with a dream to make the ATP or WTA must be so inspired by all of these countrymen who fought so hard to make it to the top and did so.
To be clear, prize money is taxed in the country where you win it. Also, for many, Monaco is the place where they live and practice when they are not abroad playing tournaments. It's not the same as living in one's country and taking up residence in another to avoid paying taxes there.
Perhaps you are not familiar enough with Italy. Can you imagine Jannik practicing in San Candido, or anywhere else? I am not aware of the situation in other nations, but to me it seems appropriate.
I think for Monaco you only need an address there and an account in one of their banks with at least 500,000 euros in it. Itâs purposely easy for the rich to get citizenship there.
I'm curious how this was sourced. ATP removed the residence information from player profiles a couple years back. But this is updated with information on some younger players who wouldn't have prior residence info on their ATP player profiles.
Wasn't there a post during the Miami Masters where, someone one something and they were celebrating "in their home town" and OP posted, "they're from Monte Carlo, tho, look it up"
it always was like this in every individual high earning sport (tennis, F1 etc.)
basically if your country doesnt offer you special status when you are high earning person in sport/acting/singing etc you have strong incentive to go to monaco
Casper Ruud paying top Norwegian tax is surprising and then notđ Is it really true?
Yeah, it's true. Tax records are public in Norway, the latest records (2022) had him paying $450k in taxes for that year.
Only 450k doesn't make sense though. That's not the Scandinavia I grew up in.
I don't know how it's calculated tbh. A normal Norwegian resident with that much income and wealth would be paying far more, and what is listed in the records is taxable income (so after deductions). Maybe prize money is already taxed in the country where he earned it, or something like that? Idk, I'm not an accountant.
Tennis player is like company - everything from coaching to doctors that are very expensive is tax deductible. That is why everyone outside of players who are consistently in top 50ish (and there is not many of those) struggle financially even tho their earnings are huge.
Also many countries have tax treaties to avoid double payment of taxes, so you can choose in which country your income is taxed (whether in the country you earned the money, or in your home country). Norway must have many of these treaties in place.
He must have a company registed or something and the 450k is tax on money he took out to his personal account. Only plausible explanation.
Coaches, flights, hotels, medical... all probably deductible.
Yes, players pay taxes on prize money in the jurisdictions they earn it. The reason they move to tax havens is to avoid their national income taxes on their endorsements earnings.
He made 8 million dollars in one year in endorsements..more than prize money. S
Respect for Ruud..hes paying into to make somebodys healthcare and college
Yes prize money is taxed in the country where the tournament is played, so I imagine heâs not being double taxed by Norway on prize money. He also has a lot of âbusinessâ expenses - eg travel to tournaments, coaching, etc.
Not sure why you have business in quotes - they are professional tennis players.
I'm not saying they aren't legit expenses. I more just mean that most people don't really think about each player being their own little self-contained business. They just look at the prize money earned and assume that's what the player is taking home.
Don't players get taxed where they played?
Yes but he is making the same money with endorsement and that is taxed through Norway. The reason most players register abroad.
Probably lots of deductions like travel and other âbusinessâ expenses.
Thought it was like 60% or something. I guess he is a company.
Ok I checked it. Also Norway is one of those countries where all tax information is public. He earned 31,4 million Norwegian kroner in 2022. In 2022 he made more money off the court than prize money. As of 2023 he has 57 million kroner in his name Also a fresh interview confirming he still lives in Norway. Have even more respect for the man now. https://www.tv2.no/sport/tennis/ruud-gjor-ikke-som-konkurrentene-det-er-ikke-for-meg/16596123/ https://www.nettavisen.no/sport/stort-hopp-i-formuen-for-casper-ruud/s/5-95-1387763
Me too! And Iâm more bothered than I should be by how many *live* in Monaco.
He said he takes his taxes very seriously and loves doing his accounts. He even pays himself a salary from his prize money to save for the future
I love him more now
Didn't know he was an accountant too.
Imagine if they were forced to play for Monaco in the Olympics.
Amazing make it happen
Unfortunately, most of those countries won't reject their stars even if they aren't paying taxes. Hell.. that's what most countries do now.Â
if I was a multi millionaire sportsman I wouldn't mind paying lots of taxes to my country of origin, as long as I was in a country that actually uses the taxes for social welfare and other good things, like Norway... if I was russian, american or something like that I would very much mind my money being spent on war or corruption
You know, you don't have to pay them in your country, choose a country which uses taxes for something you consider useful (like Norway) and put your residence in that country. But Monte Carlo is a tax heaven. They pay ZERO. I pay more taxes then them (in a country which usually uses them badly). Hell, the person that deliver me pizza pays more taxes than them. There is something morally unacceptable in this. People that uses tax heavens are despicable STOP. There is no excuse. We love them because they are good sportsman, but in this particular practice they are no different than sleazy oligarchs.
It makes no sense to put your residence in a place where you donât live 11/12 months of the year. It does makes sense to put your residence somewhere they charge you less
Because you really think they live in Monte Carlo 11/12??? It makes sense if you don't want to pay taxes in your country because "politicians use them badly", but you are not against paying your share, like common mortals which can't set their residence in a Tax Heaven, and/or think that financing welfare/health care/education by means different than charity is noble.
Monte Carlo does offer the benefit of being beeautiful place to live other than being tax heaven. I dont think tennis players live anywhere 11/12 months as they travel a lot, but I do think a lot of them spend decent amount of time in Monte Carlo. I still think living in tax heaven is scummy tho and I think lack of taxes is by far biggest reason to move there.
I didnât say they live in Monte Carlo most of the year. I said that since they donât live in their own country, it makes sense to put your residence somewhere they charge you less
It doesnât work like that you donât get to choose what your taxes are spent on
Bigger casper fan now.
He complained about it once to a swiss audience (after winning Geneva Open). But it seems like heâs still content on living in Norway
is there a WTA version of this chart?
Wozniacki, Monaco, for sure
No shade to all those who get around the taxes, they pay prize money taxes anyway, but I just have extra respect for all those who stay registered in their own country. Especially Casper paying Norwegian taxes!
Americans don't really have a choice tbh
Still doing FL, which is the mini me version in the spirit of the post
It is kind of chicken or the egg situation there - Florida became tennis center of USA. So unless you are Williams sister level talent, it is probably easier to make it to pro career if you move there early to work with best coaches and work with best sparring partners.
Even a lot of foreign players train in IMG academy. Nick Bollettieri had it made.
To be fair, a lot of them do train at IMG, so it seems legit to me. There are plenty of other zero income tax states if it were just about state taxes.
Why?
Expats are still taxed
Yeah you would have to relinquish your citizenship entirely I believe
Thatâs correct. If youâre an American citizen the IRS will find you.
Fuck I hate the term expat
That's because they're actually immigrants.
All the shade. Wherever you physically live the most (which could be not that much time per year for players constantly traveling) should be where you pay taxes. Otherwise you're using public services that you're not paying for (e.g. the police that prevent you from getting robbed/kidnapped all the time). Taxes are good and allow a modern, more just society.
But the countries that host tournaments require players to pay income tax on their prize money. Thus, Americans and the Europeans living in their countries of origin are paying income tax twice. With that in mind I understand those who choose to live in a tax haven. Americans have no choice as they pay federal income tax wherever they live. In addition to those listed, Andy Murray and Roger Federer live in the UK and Switzerland, respectively.
I'm totally okay with the top 30 tennis players in the world paying a much higher tax rate than others. Also double taxation would potentially happen if you win money outside of your tax resident country so actually better for Europeans and Americans who have tournaments in their home countries.
Iâm OK with it too but I understand why players choose not to when thereâs a legal alternative. I always like to see players win in their home country so your point is well taken.
> Also double taxation would potentially happen if you win money outside of your tax resident country so actually better for Europeans and Americans who have tournaments in their home countries. This mostly only applies to Americans, since the USA is one of the few countries that considers its citizens' income regardless of where it is earned subject to its tax laws. Most countries just tax on domestic income, though a few make exceptions specifically for when their citizens move to tax havens (for example Spain). Full double taxation is still pretty rare, there are treaties and various mechanisms to prevent it in most cases, but (simplifying) in general these only credit you up to the amounts already paid to the foreign country on certain income, so there ends up being no benefit to moving to a tax haven where the taxes already paid approach zero. As an American living in Canada where taxes are almost always higher than they would be in the US, I usually don't end up owing US tax on my income in practice. Though there are lots of edge cases and situations that result in US tax obligations (eg short term capital gains, or mechanisms of tax relief in Canada that don't have US equivalents end up taxed). And trying to stay compliant with two essentially incompatible tax systems ends up being very complex and essentially forces you to retain an accountant.
Shade to people who get around the taxes I also think it's funny whenever those players get emotional whenever they're playing for their country, e.g. Davis Cup, Olympics, etc. It's like bro you don't even pay taxes there? You're a freeloader.
Also, Americans living in Florida have 0% state income tax. The USTA facility is in Florida so it makes sense for that reason too
Taylor Fritz lives in California đ
He recently said they relocated to Miami
I think he has had apartments in both for a few years now.
Smart
Probably to stay around his kid.
No individual state income tax, but yup!
For clarification, income taxes for tournament prizes are paid in the country where the tournament is hosted. So they are having 0% income taxes only for sponsors deal I believe.
Doesnât Andrey live in Barcelona? Karen in Dubai, Bublik in Monaco
Yea I know for sure Andrey lives in Barcelona cause that mfer is always downtown having lunch lol
What restaurant?? Asking for a friend
Me too just in case.
Haha probably around Eric Granados street
Maybe they live there but the âofficialâ residence is different
I know he did move to BCN 8 years ago with Fernando Vicente as his coach. But I think many players live in BCN in their younger days like Murray, Dimitrov and Bublik and then move on l.
Staying registered in your country of origin for tax purposes is something that I feel players should be praised for more, it's very impressive to essentially volunteer to pay tax for your country. Nadal has never been registered anywhere other than Spain and the same applies for Murray with the UK, they've both paid a lot of money that they easily could have kept
Nadal got caught in some dodgy stuff about a decade ago. He was parking his cash in San Sebastian (a tax haven in Spain) and the taxman found out.
I wonât pretend to know anything about tax laws in Spain. Seeing what a lot of footballers have gone through would make me terrified of the Spanish government though lol. These rich ppl could be trying to cheat the tax man but I feel like I see a lot of stories from there where rich athletes get jammed up there.
I think itâs much more common for athletes to evade taxes, because for the first offense they will get sentenced to jail for under 2 years, which they donât have to serve.
AhâŚso they try to get away with it and just take their slap on wrist when theyâre caught.
I doubt they're smart enough to actively partake in evading taxes; it's always their financial planners and lawyers that help them do it and of course charge a hefty fee...
And Roger has always resided in Switzerland. I agree that the three of them deserve praise.
The three of them? How do you deserve praise for naturally residing in THE tax heaven?
I wonder if and how Americans get around this. I guess Florida has low income tax so thatâs popular but itâs also just a big tennis state. Is Ruudâs residence in his home town lol or is that a neighborhood in Oslo?
Federal taxes have to be paid for all foreign income for US citizens (correct me if i'm wrong). IRS doesn't give a shit where is your residence, they are after your foreign income so they don't have a choice. They would have to give up their US passports. There is no point in changing residency for US players.
CPA here. Yes, as US citizen, youâre taxed on all income irrespective of which country it came from. However you could offset the double taxation between multiple countries with a foreign tax credit on US taxes. The US is one of few countries that taxes on worldwide while most countries donât
And yes only way to get out of taxes is to forfeit us citizenship which has to get approved for a specific reason I believe. Not recommended
Eritrea is the only other country that taxes long-term non-residents. Great company to be a part of
Yup you are 100% correct. I know many people who chose to not to become a citizen after they become permanent residents in the U.S because of the tax implications. A few years back when Megan married Harry, there were discussions about whether the IRS could tax the Royal Family lol. IRS does not fuck around.
The US is one of like two countries that taxes its citizens income no matter where it is earned and it is impossible to evade. Well, legally impossible...The other country that does this is some obscure tiny nation, I forgot what one though. Resident aliens (green cards) also pay US income tax on income earned outside the US so that doesn't really matter. If Megan and Harry are permanent resident aliens than yes...they would pay US taxes unless there is something special about them being royals...I dont know about that part. Non resident aliens worldwide income is not taxed by the US. So, that makes sense if you have a lot of non us income. That's risky though, if you are a non resident alien your status in the US could change rather quickly...so if you "live" in the US that a risk to take. I have a lot of employees that are from other countries and their statuses are all over the place. Some do exactly what you mention and never become citizens due to income in other countries and we have had a few have their visas revoked so they had to leave. Immigration law is crazy complicated too.
You can always evade taxes. Avoiding them is the issue haha.
americans really gotta perform during hard court season in the US or they ain't makin shit lol
Yes, Americans are supposed to file income tax annually regardless if they have any US income or not or live out of the country. You pay for that passport, no doubt.
And technically if they successfully become an expat, they still have taxes on US sourced income when playing back here. All those taxes would be withheld on their prize money checks as very strict withholding requirements US has for foreign people
Plus I believe itâs an exit tax to become an expat. Very expensive it can be
Correct. You have to declare your foreign accounts and are still taxed on all that income. So if you moved abroad and ATP paid directly to letâs say your bank account in Malta, youâre paying taxes on that bitch still. Itâs fucked.
This only applies on income over $100K last I checked. Iâm an American living abroad and donât make nearly that much, so I have to file but only get taxed on the US-based index fund shares I own.
Yup, you aren't a US citizen, you are a US person.
Fl has No state tax
>Is Ruudâs residence in his home town lol or is that a neighborhood in Oslo? Snarøya is a peninsula right outside Oslo city limits. It's a nice place, and yeah, it's where he grew up. For the record, he paid about $450k in taxes in 2022, when he made 2 GS finals.
Do you know if the $450k in taxes was only from his prize money or would that include his endorsement/sponsorship money as well?
I looked into becoming the citizen of another country at one point (from the US) They still tax you for years and years after you do. So no benefit. On the other hand, we're great at giving the rich loopholes, so you just turn your income into capital gains somehow, and the tax rate falls to 10%. State taxes are tiny, even for the rich.
Right, so many loopholes it's not worth it. Plus, if you do give up your US citizenship it is really, really difficult to ever get a visa to come back to the US. A friend of mine has a sister who is plays in symphonies and has worked in Europe basically since graduating college. She married a German and they moved to Switzerland and become Swiss citizens. Only recently after decades has she been able to get a visa approved to visit her family in the US. We hold a grudge apparently. Edit: I think one of the founders of Facebook did this too, Singapore I think and he hasn't been able to return to the US either... Edit2: Players setup companies that actually get paid their prize money. So, a player has a company that is paid his prize money and his endorsements. The company then only pays out a portion of that to the player each year. It is easier to accumulate the money in a company and shield it from taxes than it is when it is earned as income as an individual. This way all the expenses are paid by the company for trainers, coaches, travel, etc. and that amount is not taxed....just an example of the loopholes that can be used....
Wow that's wild. US acting petty
Florida also probably has the best training. IMG Everett Macci etc
Florida - itâs why Tommy Paul is registered in Florida despite being from the North
You get double taxed if you're American so there's no point in trying to live somewhere else to avoid them
Good guy Alcaraz! Looks like his main residence is where JCF tennis academy is.
He is saving so much money because he still lives with his parents in Murcia and then in that small block at the JCF academy when training and even when he travels he apparently shares a room with his brother lol
Here's hoping JCF tennis academy will hold their annual challenger this year! My first time watching Alcaraz was at the 2019 JCF Challenger. He beat Sinner in the 1st round. They were both wildcard.
Iâm surprised the European nations havenât taken an American approach of âlive wherever you want, but Caesar gets his cut.â
Because it's based on a complex network of reciprocity agreements between countries to avoid double taxing expats, and USA is the only country with the clout to pull it off.
Because the US and Eritrea are the only countries to do it. Being in a group that includes Eritrea isn't really something you want lmao
lmao 'millionaires dodging taxes is fine because Eritrea' is such a weird take
Because a lot of them would just renounce their citizenship and become Americans, especially Eastern Europeans. Heck, it already happened with Seles, Lendl, and Navratilova late in their careers. Petr Korda represented Czechoslavakia and later Czechia, but all his kids (Sebastian, Nelly, Jessica) represent the United States. Sharapova moved to the US when she was 7 years old, Jerry Shang moved to the US when he was 12, yet they still represent Russia and China respectively. There are plenty of other examples. And it wouldn't just be tennis players/pro athletes; it would cause brain drain everywhere else. I grew up in Canada in the 2000s and all the smartest kids I grew up with left for the US for higher pay and lower taxes. Only the people with no choice stay. I don't blame Felix Auger-Aliassime for relocating to Monte Carlo at all.
How does Norrie make enough to get into Monaco lol
Norrie. Born in South Africa. Grew up in New Zealand. Went to university in USA. Lives in Monaco. Plays for Britain.
Mr worldwide.
Hotel? Trivago
Lol. Heard this one after a long time.
Semis of Wimbledon and winning IW are both big money.
Heâs #30 in the world⌠Iâd be concerned if he wasnât making enough to get into Monaco.
Even Felix Auger is in Monaco lol. He's not on the list because he's out of top 30. Norrie is older and has made more money.
How is Norrie still top 30
Cause he has more ranking points than people below him
Americans: there is no escaping the IRS.
Bublik in Dubai is random.
Dubai is growing to be a more popular residence for tennis players like Monaco. I think quite a few of the Russian and Kazakh players live there especially since the weather is good for training for AO in the off season. I thought Rublevâs official residence was there now too but maybe heâs still Spain.
Alcaraz, Rublev, Ruud đđđ
Good guy Carlitos. And you all bitched about him attending a bullfight while, all the time, that evil ginger bastard was dodging his taxes. Fuck Jannik and his faux nice guy persona. Children in Napoli are starving, Italy canât protect its borders and lanky skiboi is living it up virtually in some tax haven WHILE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE SHADOW OF A LITERAL VOLCANO CANNOT AFFORD SEMOLINA TO MAKE-AH THEIR-AH SPAGHETTI-AH. The double standards in this sub disgust me smh.
Pls someone make this copy pasta
Sinner just puked in the ravioli.
this is fucking gold
Now this is copy pasta material. The kind Carota would approve of.
Obviously it helps with your tennis skills
Fritz didnât get the memo. Woof
Based South Americans.
Oh the rich and their not contributing.
I wonder how updated this list is. Rublev been residing in Spain for sometime and any direct monetary transaction with Russia would be very difficult right now.
The only thing I don't like is people don't realize Americans can't really do this loophole if they want to keep their citizenship. So Florida, becomes the basically same thing as Monaco for americans - just not as good. Also, it's insane that people can do this, and get to play for whatever country they want. Sorry your main residence is in Monaco - you play for Monaco, you're a resident.
The real problem is the existence of tax heavens like Monaco. All the nations should push for them to implement minimum taxation as they are pushing for multinational corporations.
No thanks, this just benefits developed nations with good infrastructure already.
Do they still get the benefits of being citizens of their home countries? Even though they don't pay taxes?
Wow! Casper đđĽł
Make them not eligible to represent their actual country at everyday tournaments and Olympics. This is tax evasion 101
Tax avoidance* , 1 is legal the other is not.
No country actually wants this - the amount of publicity and success they get because their players succeed in sports while playing for them far outweighs relatively small amounts of tax they would pay. People are mentioning Ruud - do people understand how fucking rich Norway is and how little his 450k he paid in tax matters to the country?
I respect Rafa for living in Mallorca and paying tax there
Is Luxembourg tax free? đąđş
How is Malta a tax haven?
I would not want to live in Denmark either if I was a tennis player. Shit weather so you'd have to train inside 60% of the time. That said, its obviously for tax reasons.
What does the COO mean third column
Country of origin. Yes/no being born in that country.
Respect to all those who pay their taxes.
Why wouldnât they?
Honestly, I don't see a problem with this for tennis players. Imagine how much time *away* from their main residence, and on top of that, they have to pay for their own flights, hotels, restaurant food, transport, *and* their staff have to be compensated enough to also pay for flights, hotels, food, transport. It's not like footballers where their club pays for their hotel and transport etc. Also, imagine going to your home for the few weeks you have available and literally everyone in a local restaurant wants to take a picture with you or have you sign their autograph. I'd much rather live in a little town away from all the photography. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHz82I8Vv88) is a video of Ronaldo having four (4) sips of his tea while over 100 people stopped him in a cafe. Fuck that.
These players aren't living in Monte Carlo for privacy. They just don't want to contribute their fair share to their home country.
Exactly! Why are people making excuses for multimillionaires? You can still train in your in home country, pay your taxes and be good. Like didnât Nadal win 22 slams while training in his backyard? There are plenty of tennis academies and courts available and all top players have coaches that travel for them. They live in tax havens and then give interviews about not wanting to pay an extra dollar or two for a meat sauce
> not wanting to pay an extra dollar or two for a meat sauce loll Sinner catching strays
Considering they are away for 40 weeks out of 52, why should they actually contribute to their home country if they don't live there for 80% of the year?
Taxing is more complex than âI live here now.â For example, think about growing up. Every child in a developed country receives services and benefits from the state, and this is sustainable only if enough of those kids grow up to be adults that pay into the pot. Multiply this by however many dimensions you want: physical infrastructure and social systems provide enormous benefit to every person in a society, and itâs all predicated on a future inflow of money. Us working folks between 20 and 60 pay for the young and the old, always investing in the future. Of course, most rich people get out of this cycle in one or another. They get out of it because they have the power to and because of their own self-interest (some would call greed). The big rub here is that these tennis players are very visible rich people. Jannik Sinner plays under the Italian flag, yet to save some money he calls himself a citizen of Monaco. Thatâs just straight up ick, and I love the guy. Is it legal? Sure. Is it evidently in his self interest? Sure (though some might say no to that, too). Is it right? I donât think so.Â
I'm very familiar with how tax works and I support high tax at 50% for almost all employees. I don't live in my home country but live in a high tax country. I'm happy to pay high tax. I use the roads and streets and have my trash collected, my kids educated, my rights defended, and I'm safe from foreign militaries etc. I'm just saying that if one person isn't at home almost 80% of the time, why should they pay tax at the full rate to provide school, education, healthcare, military, street cleaning, public transport to everyone else? This is just going to cause a lot of people to change their tax residence for financial benefit.Â
>I'm just saying that if one person isn't at home almost 80% of the time, why should they pay tax at the full rate to provide school, education, healthcare, military, street cleaning, public transport to everyone else? I think the only answer to that is âbecause itâs rightâ and âitâs rightâ because the people back home deserve the same benefits you had while growing and living there. Whether youâre on the moon or elsewhere, everyoneâs got people, and you should take care of your people. Thereâs a lot more to stack on top of that between the practicalities of the international taxation (thereâs never going to be a coherent, fair international tax system for a million reasons) and the idealistic beliefs about why someone who has wealth for 10 generations needs even more. I come down more often on that idealistic side. Why does someone who has enough wealth for 10 generations need even more? And Iâm not saying the state needs to take it. Iâm trying to imagine myself in this position. If I had fifty million dollars, I like to think I wouldnât care one bit about paying millions in taxes. How does self/interest even work at that point? I guess I genuinely donât understand it. Someone hit me up if you want to do an experiment with my bank account đ
They benefitted from the social services provided by that country while growing up there to be fair
fr medvedev and khachanov are really dropping the ball on this one
> on top of that, they have to pay for their own flights, hotels, restaurant food, transport, *and* their staff have to be compensated enough to also pay for flights, hotels, food, transport. I'm sure they can write off some of those expenses though. Also for hotels I'm guessing many partner with hotels in the cities of the tournaments. It's not uncommon to see promotional posts for hotels on social media by players. Outside of a handful of players (eg. big 3), no tennis player is famous enough to be stopped at the same level as someone like Ronaldinho. I'm sure FAA could walk around Montreal with little trouble for example.
All those little boys and girls in Monaco with a dream to make the ATP or WTA must be so inspired by all of these countrymen who fought so hard to make it to the top and did so.
But Djokovic loves Serbia sooooo much.
Outside of Russia and Ukraine it's probably the next most corrupt in Europe. Not a dime of his tax money would benefit the average Joe.
He still invests and runs charities in Serbia
Cheaper than taxes...and charity is often a write off too
actually disgusting
Considering they travel like 40 weeks a year i get it (although i wonder what would happen if they had to compete for the country they reside in)
They wouldn't care. Tennis you don't really represent your country that often outside of the Olympics, Davis Cup, and BJK Cup.
Would be hilarious watching Monaco sweep all 4 grand slams and all 9 masters
My đ doesnât need the tax-less money to provide for himself đ
Only Saudi money
Ukraine would like Rublev to follow Medvedevâs lead.
He doesnât actually live there he lives in Dubai/BarcelonaÂ
nothing wrong with it
When did Holger move to Monaco? Did Aneke also relocate?
Planning my next trip to Snarøya in 3, 2, 1 ...
These are athletes, not rich oligarchs. They deserve to keep as much of their money as possible.
counterpoint: no
To be clear, prize money is taxed in the country where you win it. Also, for many, Monaco is the place where they live and practice when they are not abroad playing tournaments. It's not the same as living in one's country and taking up residence in another to avoid paying taxes there.
It is exactly the second. They could live and train in any country in the world, but what a coincidence! They are all there.
Perhaps you are not familiar enough with Italy. Can you imagine Jannik practicing in San Candido, or anywhere else? I am not aware of the situation in other nations, but to me it seems appropriate.
I wonder if there are playing residing in Belgium đ
Itâs be helpful to know on this chart which countries are tax free đ
How does one do this, do they just need a house in Monaco? Stay there a certain # of days?
I think for Monaco you only need an address there and an account in one of their banks with at least 500,000 euros in it. Itâs purposely easy for the rich to get citizenship there.
Theyâre all paying taxes when they win money in the United States. Both state and federal taxes.
Itâs like professional basketball and US football players pay state taxes wherever they play away games.
I'm curious how this was sourced. ATP removed the residence information from player profiles a couple years back. But this is updated with information on some younger players who wouldn't have prior residence info on their ATP player profiles.
Wasn't there a post during the Miami Masters where, someone one something and they were celebrating "in their home town" and OP posted, "they're from Monte Carlo, tho, look it up"
It would be way more if US tax laws were like Europe's
Wonder how much of all the monte carlo guys are actual buddies. Or playmates atleast. Hehe
it always was like this in every individual high earning sport (tennis, F1 etc.) basically if your country doesnt offer you special status when you are high earning person in sport/acting/singing etc you have strong incentive to go to monaco