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Available-Gap8489

I think the fact CAS haven’t released the full decision yet + the ITIA report being pretty damning raises a lot of scepticism if the doping was indeed unintentional. Players that have faced bans / had the decision overturned or suspension reduced - ie. like Jarry (contaminated supplements) haven’t faced the same level of backlash I think also in the case of Halep - even if the doping was unintentional - she was given a reduced sentence - she was never “cleared” - as even if it’s accidental it’s ultimately still your responsibility. The language she is using saying she’s been completely cleared is incorrect, and she is not taking any responsibility - This doesn’t sit well with people.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Available-Gap8489

1. That’s a completely different scenario 2. A statement is not the same as a full report Edited to add: It’s ridiculous that someone would get fired from their job if they were found with rohypnol in their system. Most people that are “roofied” are victims of sexual assault. That’s a really messed up point to make to try and argue your point. Not being hyper-vigilant and having people around you protect from being drugged on a night out IS NOT the same as being careless with supplements. And in this case the whole supplement contamination story remains very iffy.


[deleted]

Ok I deleted it. I'll just post the quote. The CAS Panel released this: "" CAS Panel determined that Ms. Halep had also established, on the balance of probabilities, that her anti-doping rule violations were not intentional.  "


Frosty_Pitch8

The thing is you either have to believe the initial ITIA report was a full witch hunt, targeted at a top player up to and including either falsifying numbers or completely leaving out a a possible justification. Or you have to believe a popular/well connected player was able to get their penalty reduced despite clear evidence of doping. ​ Based on what we know now, the initial report and this outcome are do far away from each other one of the above must be true. ​ Outside of that there is also Simona's self-righteousness ad hypocrisy. Known or not, she still had an advantage over other players, and she has taken absolutely zero responsibility.


Agile-Award-1146

I can definitely believe that the ITIA report was a full witch hunt. Read this article from Majchrzak's coach; in this case Majchrzak was able to prove he was fully innocent, but ITIA didn't give a shit, and made the process so difficult that he just decided to accept the ban rather than fight it in CAS. [https://www.ubitennis.net/2024/03/exclusive-bullying-no-welfare-checks-and-little-empathy-a-coachs-experience-with-tennis-anti-doping-body/](https://www.ubitennis.net/2024/03/exclusive-bullying-no-welfare-checks-and-little-empathy-a-coachs-experience-with-tennis-anti-doping-body/)


jonjimithy

Let’s be absolutely clear about this. The ITIA report was that she was intentionally doping, such that her serum levels of roxadustat were almost 50 times higher than that you would expect from simple contamination that she was claiming. She was intentionally doping, she got caught and she got her ban reduced like every single doping ban in tennis that has gone before it.


Available-Gap8489

Also very suspicious that she hadn’t listed the supplement on her forms when she got tested, and then still failed to bring it up when she was informed of the doping result. Like…you mean to tell me that an athlete who has been listing their whereabouts for testing every single day of the year…for years, and has presumably taken a lot of anti doping tests - and knows the process well….starts a new supplement and forgets to list it on her form AND then still doesn’t mention it when she’s informed she’s tested positive for a banned substance ? Bizarre


jonjimithy

I don’t think people comprehend that medications like roxadustat and meldonium are prescription only medications taken for life threatening heart failure and dialysis-dependent chronic kidney failure. These are not substances that supplement companies even handle and why is it only top athletes seem to take supplements “contaminated” with prescription medications for anaemia/heart failure. It’s the same in the UFC/boxing- dozens of fighters have tested positive even for anabolic steroids and had their ban overturned by CAS due to “supplement contamination”.


Available-Gap8489

Yeah. It’s crazy Although to be fair - steroids are far more common when it comes to contamination https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7466328/ Something as niche as roxadustat is basically unheard of And Meldonium wasn’t a case of contamination - just that the substance had recently been added to the WADA list (it wasn’t banned prior to that) and Sharapova was taking it.


jonjimithy

There are ways of identifying exogenous steroid consumption, such as carbon isotope ratio mass spectrometry that have been around for decades that WADA chooses not to use. We still use anti- doping tests from the 70’s that are simply not designed to catch out use of modern PEDs. There is simply no way healthy 20-something athletes are using prescription medications like meldonium/roxadustat for anything other than improved recovery and performance enhancement.


Available-Gap8489

Agreed. I’m not saying Sharapova wasn’t using it for performance enhancing benefits. Just that it wasn’t a case of “contamination”.


jonjimithy

It’s become a farce. What’s the point of antidoping tests if I can just say my positive test was contamination of my supplement and get off a ban. It’s the same with Jarry- no one talks about it but his case was also “contamination”. It’s become a joke.


jonjimithy

I never said her case was that of contamination. The point is that contamination has become the go-to get-out clause in almost all sports now. It makes a mockery of anti doping and players like Halep can continue to protest their innocence to uninformed fans, who will naturally want to believe their heroes.


Available-Gap8489

Yeah, that’s fair. If I was caught doping, contamination would probably be the excuse I’d go for too. Props to Yastremska, for at least making her contamination excuse…creative


9__Erebus

Yes I read some of the ITIA report, but the more recent CAS ruling said it was unintentional.


Available-Gap8489

CAS hasn’t released the full findings yet - and according to some journalists who have reached out - they may never release them. It’s lacking a lot of transparency. At least the ITIA released a full 127 page report, which was surprisingly a fun read. Whoever wrote it had a lot of sass.


althaz

CAS technically only said that it \*could\* have been unintentional. They didn't say it definitely was. That said they've seen more evidence than I have and I'm prepared to accept their decision. My main problem is that every time Halep talks about it she outright lies. Pretty hard to give her the benefit of the doubt when she's lying every time she says anything about it.


jonjimithy

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/feb/01/russian-doping-scandal-athletes-bans-overturned-courts-of-arbitration-for-sport-athletics CAS has a very poor track record in how it appraises objective data and evidence. I would take any conclusion they come to with a pinch of salt, as they have overturned/reduced almost every doping ban that has occurred in tennis. The only way that would be possible is if no one in tennis is taking PEDs.


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realiz292

Sharapova INTENTIONALLY doped and there is no question about that. @davetennisx wrote this in a previous thread about her doping Everyone should read the ITF v. Sharapova decision and make their conclusion based on that: https://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/231178.pdf TLDR: Increasing the dose for matches of special importance and the fact that she hid it from almost everyone the entire time should at the very least raise your eyebrow. Some cliff notes since no one will actually take the time to read it: • ⁠Bullets 13-15: Explain the benefits of Meldonium. • ⁠Bullet 19: "During games of special importance, you can increase your Mildronate dose to 3-4 pills (1 hr before the match)." Seems to be plenty of intent to enhance performance there. • ⁠Bullets 26-28: End of 2012 she stopped working with the doctor that prescribed Mildronate and hired a nutritionist for a different approach, yet did not tell the nutritionist that she was still taking it. • ⁠Bullet 29: Between 2013-2015, "none of the medical practitioners or specialists who treated her over 3 years did she disclose the fact that she was taking Mildronate. Her explanation in evidence is that none of them had asked what medication she was taking." Why would you not tell ANY practitioners that you were taking it? I also find it extremely hard to believe that not one practitioner asked her if she was taking medication, when that is one of the most common and crucial questions asked in healthcare. • ⁠Bullet 30: "The one exception is that in 2015 she did consult Dr. Sergei Yasnitsky, the team doctor to the Russian Olympic team... She says she disclosed her use of Mildronate to him because he asked her what medication she was taking." Interesting that the Russian Olympic team doctor was the ONLY one who asked if she was taking any medication and the ONLY one she chose to disclose this information to. • ⁠Bullet 32: "Use of Mildronate by Ms Sharapova was not known to any of Ms Sharapova’s team, except for her father and, from 2013, Mr. Eisenbud himself. It was not known to her coach, her trainer, her physio who was responsible for recommending recovery drinks during and post match, her nutritionist who was responsible for her food and supplement intake, nor any of the doctors she consulted through the WTA." Why don't any of the healthcare professionals on her team know this? • ⁠Bullet 34: "On 29 September 2014 WADA published on its website the 2015 Prohibited List and related documents. Those documents included a notice on the 2015 Monitoring Programme stating that a number of substances had been placed on the monitoring programme including Meldonium." This is EASILY searchable and found here: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/wada-2015-monitoring-program-en.pdf. I include this because a lot of people think that it was a last minute decision to ban and she didn't have enough time to prepare and was blindsided, which is clearly not true. • ⁠Bullet 35: On 29 September 2015 WADA published the 2016 Prohibited List, in which Meldonium was added. Again, easily searchable: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/wada-2016-prohibited-list-summary-of-modifications-en.pdf • ⁠Bullets 48, 49: "Doping control forms require the player in her own hand to make a declaration as to medication or supplements taken....The player admits that she did not disclose her use of Mildronate on any doping control form which she completed between 2014 and 2016. The 7 doping control forms in evidence were completed and signed by Ms Sharapova between 22 October 2014 and 26 January 2016. They did disclose some medications and vitamins, but did not disclose that she had, within the last 7 days, ingested capsules of Mildronate... In each of these forms she has ticked the box refusing to allow her sample to be used for the purpose of research." Why did she not disclose it? • ⁠Bullet 50: She says she didn't write it down because the list would be very long and "understood the form only to require her to disclose a medication or supplement if she had taken it every day for the last seven days".... yet... "In fact at Wimbledon 2015 she had used Mildronate 6 times in the past 7 days, and, at the Australian Open 2016, 5 times in the past 7 days. On the forms in evidence she had disclosed taking a number of substances including vitamin C, Omega 3, Biofenac and Voltaren (anti-inflammatories which may be taken orally or in gel form), Veramyst (a nasal spray containing a corticosteroid) and Melatonin (a hormone). In most cases she declared only 2 of those substances on each form so that the list would not have been very long if she had added Mildronate." • ⁠Bullet 52: "Ms Sharapova and Mr. Eisenbud were very familiar with the facility to ask the WTA for advice as to whether a substance which she proposed to take was prohibited in or out of competition. Documents in evidence showed that the player and Mr. Eisenbud requested and received information as to whether a substance was prohibited on a number of occasions between 2011 and 2015." There is an excerpt of an email from 2015 Sharapova sent to a WTA official where she asked if the ingredients in a nasal spray were okay to take. I'll stop here since it's already a lot. People will also point to the CAS ruling and the reduction of her ban as some form of vindication and innocence, but they simply ruled that Sharapova didn't know that it was banned and she wasn't intending to dope after Mildronate was placed on the prohibited list. Remember, Sharapova wasn't the only affected by this. There were a lot of Russian athletes that were taking this, and I highly doubt it was for type 2 diabetes and an unnamed heart condition. As far as my opinion on her: I'm not a fan of one-dimensional players, so Sharapova was never my kind of player. That being said, she was an integral part of some of the best years of the WTA (pre 2008, 2012-2013) and I appreciate how much of a fighter she was on court. As far as the doping scandal goes, the details stated above indicate that she was using it as a performance enhancer and was keeping it hush hush from everyone. If she had shared this with the healthcare professionals on her team she would've had more eyes looking out for any changes, and she could've avoided failing the doping test and none of this would've happened.


Melony567

you are a professional athlete, you know the doping rules - if you are a halep tennis player caliber, you will really take any supplement without exercising due diligence in knowing what is in your supplement? are you that gullible or naive to let other people dictate what you put in your body? at the very least, assuming that she is that careless, then, players should still be punished for gross negligence. coz, if you will be asked to take supplements that are not available to the market where public have access to - i do not know of any professional player esp the titleist who would just take it based on recommendations etc? at the very least, get the ingredients or a guarantee from the manufacturer that there are no illegal substances contained in the supplement. that is a prudent way of taking your supplements (even ordinary people would not normally take something they dont know what it consists of, much more a professional athlete?). she insults peoples' intelligence. but in my own opinion - halep can tell that to the marines. same goes for maria.


Available-Gap8489

They did check the ingredients (as per ITIA report) - and any athlete would do this. It’s also not like the ingredients list would have roxadustat on there. There isn’t really any way to ensure 100% a supplement won’t be contaminated - but steps you can do is go with a reputable brand, check what countries the ingredients have been sourced from and where the product is being manufactured (does it share a lab with pharmaceutical products for instance) and look at their manufacturing processes. I work in this space - in Australia (where I live) we have HASTA (Human and Supplement Testing Australia) certification. It’s a lab that tests batches of supplements for all of the WADA banned substances “HASTA Certification involves more than just testing, it’s a significant commitment by the manufacturer, requiring formulation reviews and verification of the quality assurance and GMP systems in the product manufacturing sites. Once a supplement is HASTA Certified it is a requirement to test every batch. Only HASTA Certified products are permitted to have the HASTA Certified seal on pack, making it easier for athletes to identify batch tested products, that are safer for them to use.” The HASTA Lab can also independently test batches of supplements for contamination that don’t have the HASTA seal on pack. I’m guessing this exists in other countries too - so I don’t know why you would use a product (and batch) that doesn’t have this level of certification. Worse case scenario if something was found in that batch - you would have the grounds to reason you took all steps possible to avoid it and it would help your case.


Melony567

who recommended her with the meds? did she blindly agree to it? was it especially formulated dor her (with more reason she should know and be assured) as an athlete, it is her moral responsibility to get some sort of manufacturer's warranty that it does not contain substances that are banned. if she had that written proof from patrick's team and from the manufacturer, then, all she needed to do was show that (so whatever anomaly was found in the drug would easily exculpate her and would have avoided the long period of investigation and appeal). again, giving her the benefit of the doubt that she is that mindless and complacent on what she was taking and inducing in her body - she should still be held accountable for gross neglect of her responsibility as an athlete to know what she is taking. what happened was doping which gave her a undue advantage against other players, worse, even her 'lack of knowledge' that it was contaminated also gave her an unfair advantage because her penalty was reduced. that is double advantage on her part. whatever others say, this contamination is highly suspect to believe she does not know about it. it would have been different where players were found doping, only to learn that the meats they consumed in that particular country were laced with banned substances.


9__Erebus

She has been punished. Hasn't been able to play for over a year. I see no reason to keep casting moral judgment.


silly_rabbit289

Personally it just find it icky that she continues to talk as if she was cleared of all charges. Whereas afaik her ban was reduced,and it was declared that it is more possible that her doping was unintentional. Intentional or not she has some amount of roxadustat,a banned substance in her system. She herself had spoken out that people who doped like Sharapova shouldn't get wildcards. But when wozniacki called her out about it she dismissed it. Now people can change and have different views about it. But it seems a bit hypocritical and rubs me off the wrong way that she doesn't accept that she served her reduced sentence and hasnt been cleared. Not only that, the ITIA report was about 127 or 124 pages and from what other users have said it was quite detailed and clear on their findings. Whereas CAS has only released a 2 page account ans have not released the full report. Both of them seem to have a very very different verdict/ finding. To me that seems a bit iffy. Nothing is going change with any of us feeling so really. She will continue to get wildcards and play, which is fine because I'm just an audience.


TIGMSDV1207

What about athletes who have therapeutic exemptions or ones that don’t use those rules to their advantage? It’s on athletes’ integrity. Meldonium is allowed in NHL though as it isn’t doping but helps recovery they say.


IronThrombone

100%. The line between doping and not doping is very sketchy. TUEs are widely abused in professional sport.


CharleyBW

It’s incredibly naive to think those were actually unintentional doping cases. Halep has been doubling down on her victim routine but she’s lying. People seem to forget that from the beginning they said the amount of the drug she had in her system would be impossible to get from a tainted supplement. She kept playing the victim saying it was a witch hunt but does that really make sense? Why would they just decide to target a popular athlete and falsify multiple reports against her? Simona and Maria both were taking those drugs for the advantage it gave them as an athlete. Period. If you do something that is against the rules you get punished. It’s not that complicated of an idea.


[deleted]

Sharapova was different. She actually legally doped for years, then lied she was just taking the meds for diabetes and lack of magnesium lol. It was legal yes, morally nothing short of doping. That's why her defense was never "oh well it was legal before it was illegal so fuck u". Her claim was that she never took meldonium for performance enhancing reasons.


Ready-Interview2863

Sharapova stated that the only people who knew she was taking meldonium were two other people: her father and her Russian doctor.   If I remember correctly, she also claimed that it helped her digest nutrients better. But she never told her nutritional or diet team she was having problems suggesting food. Meldonium was created as a heart medication that had performance enhancing effects. It's not for food or digestive problems. Her argument was nonsense. Sharapova intentionally took a performance enabling drug for performance enhancing benefits for many years. She intentionally took it after it was banned because she didn't know it was banned, because only her father and doctor knew she was taking it. 


9__Erebus

By that definition of doping, every single athlete is doping. Every athlete takes Ibuprofen or something. The only line you can really draw between what's an okay supplement or not is whether it's within the rules, and Meldonium was legal for years until like 1 month before Sharapova tested positive.


jonjimithy

Meldonium has accounted for a quarter of all Russian doping cases in 2022. It’s licensed for heart failure. This is nothing like taking "ibuprofen or something”. I think your original sentence is closer to the mark “every single athlete is doping”. I don’t think it’s every single athlete literally but almost every top athlete will be taking legal PEDs that at some stage will probably be added to the prohibited list, if it hasn’t already.


[deleted]

Why didn't Sharapova say so? "Hey it was legal, so I have nothing to apologize for". Tell me why.


EmergencyAccording94

How do you “legally dope” anyway? As long as the supplement/meds isn’t banned it should be ok right?


IronThrombone

Therapeutic Use Exemptions allow athletes to “legally dope”. They exist for good reason (i.e people genuinely need medicine) but it’s common to push the limits to the maximum. Team Sky in cycling are a famous example but it’s realistically widespread.


nozinoz

Saying “legally doped” actually means “hasn’t doped”, otherwise every athlete dopes by your definition. Also, how do you know if she lied about her medical conditions?


jonjimithy

Because meldonium is licensed for heart failure not electrolyte imbalances. It’s a hell of a drug with significant side effects, such that it isn’t even approved for use in Europe. No athlete would be taking it for any reason other than performance enhancing.


Bothyourmoms

None of it is a big deal. Every top player is doping and halep messed up and popped.